Open mike 08/04/2010

29 comments on “Open mike 08/04/2010 ”

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1. Bored 1

   8 April 2010 at 8:21 am

   Last night I spent fuming about the approved damming of the Mokihinui, and reflecting upon the recent moves to de-democratise Canterbury and Auckland, and to mine where ever as fast as possible….the list goes on. Some salient points emerged that are rather unpalatable.

   The first is that the desire for material progress and increased wealth is so ingrained in our society that anything or anybody that suggests that this may not be the best and wisest course of action provokes a fierce response. In NZ the Key government represents this desire and this is the wish of the majority.

   Second is that the planet is going to be pretty unforgiving of environmental rape, and that regardless of the desire for wealth and progress it will stop as we hit the resource wall. If you think the reaction to trying to prevent another river going west is bad just wait to see the toys thrown out of the cot when the oil gets too expensive to drive to the empty supermarket. And when it becomes obvious that the toys are not coming back to the cot (and never will) the belief in material progress will in its death cries result in one hell of a lot of finger pointing, scape goats and gnashing of teeth and retribution. This will be the true legacy of the Key government.
   • r0b 1.1

     8 April 2010 at 9:03 am

     Yeah that’s pretty much it in a nutshell.
   • mickysavage 1.2

     8 April 2010 at 1:00 pm

     Agreed.

     When the cheap oil starts to run out the oilmen will then start looking at the tar sands in Canada and elsewhere. To extract the oil you will need to generate lots of heat, burning coal or gas will do it. Imagine the CO2 emissions then.

     We really have to get our head around this problem now and totally redesign our society so that it is not dependant on oil. As individuals we have to address the need and desire to travel.

     For New Zealand we need strong and principled leadership. It is a shame that we have Key.
     • gingercrush 1.2.1

       8 April 2010 at 1:10 pm

       Where was that strong and principled leadership that Helen Clark addressed in this area and exactly what are Labour doing in this regard either? I’m sorry but you’re talking about how we need to totally redesign our society and dependency on oil. Yet I’m stretching my head because Helen Clark certainly didn’t do that and I can’t recall Goff speaking about any of this. He doesn’t even mention the word, “sustainability”.
       • mickysavage 1.2.1.1

         8 April 2010 at 2:17 pm

         Lets see, just off the top of my head …

         1. Energy efficient lightbulbs
         2. Increased spend in public transport
         3. Development of Auckland rail and electrification thereof
         4. Ban on thermal power stations
         5. ETS
         6. Biofuels
         7. And most important the floating of the concept that we should be carbon neutral.

         and many more. Not enough but far more than this current lot are doing. If Helen was not enlightened enough then this current bunch are absolutely cro magnon man in their approach
         • gingercrush 1.2.1.1.1

           8 April 2010 at 3:29 pm

           Are you fucking serious? You’re talking about how we need to totally redesign our society and you’re talking about fucking lightbulbs. FFS. ETS (which under either Labour or National’s version will not cut emissions), a slight increase in spending on public transport but still there was the a focus on roads, besides National will spend more on public transport than Labour did in their entire three terms of government, biofuels where there was little focus on biofuels and sustainability and will at no be more than 5% of our current fuel consumption. And as for floating the concept that we should be carbon neutral it doesn’t mean much if she Clark and her government did basically nothing about it.

           Carbon neutrality and sustainability was pure PR exercise and when you lot on the left constantly talk about National and how they have no substance then why continue grasping at straws when your government, when your party did the same fucking thing.

           And seriously fucking lightbulbs? Jesus some on the left are deluded.
2. jcuknz 2

   8 April 2010 at 8:32 am

   I shudder to think of the effects of a less materialistic approach would bring. While I think you are right Bored I hope things don’t change too quick. Maybe the materialistic approach would work if there were not so many humans on the planet .. currently 6 trillion [ is it?] projected to be 9 trillion by 2050 … I’m glad I will be out of it by then but for my grand-daughter what will happen to her?
   • BLiP 2.1

     8 April 2010 at 10:10 am

     Try 7 billion – or thereabouts.
3. gingercrush 3

   8 April 2010 at 10:16 am

   Its bye bye to Sunrise and ASB Business I see.
4. The Chairman 4

   8 April 2010 at 10:48 am

   10 calls a day from farmers wishing to sell their farms to Natural Dairy?
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/3555781/Natural-Dairy-launches-broadside-at-Fonterra
5. prism 5

   8 April 2010 at 11:01 am

   Studies done say popn needs to be down to 2 billion. But can we provide enough TVs to keep all these fertile people up at night, give them some other entertainment!
   I remember reading the comment of a woman married into a Berber community that there had to be sex every night. Pills, condoms, or operations are needed to deal with the population boom. Yet churches encourage large families, and the fundamentalists in rich developed USA refuse aid to poor countries that allow abortion etc.
   China has done sterling work at limiting growth at great cost to society and individuals. Now their population is skewed in favour of males – what social consequences will result? It ain’t easy.
   My father was killed in WW2 then peace brought the McCarthy witch hunt and more discrete wars. Now we have religious wars, and the inflaming of those with big countries invading others like Afghanistan and Iraq and also Israel’s refusal to seek peace and show integrity and compromise with the Palestinians. My father didn’t die in vain, things would have been worse if all those men and women hadn’t acted against the sick attitudes and ugly resource grab that had infected too many countries mid 20th century.
   But the power and money seekers steer us in dangerous directions – bit like big container ships on auto pilot running down the citizens in their people-sized vessels. Cheerful one can’t be when looking at current news but got to keep positive, grab a bit of humour from say AutoTunes and try to make those small changes that chaos theory says can lead to great outcomes.
   • Bored 5.1

     8 April 2010 at 1:54 pm

     Too right Prism, I have my first large scale veggie bed in, saves a heap of cash and I get to give stuff away which creates happiness. Riding a bike and walking too, when we get critical mass we may have traffic jams of people on the footpath….heres hoping. The positive bits right, if we do nothing we can be negative, best to try in the expectation of a good outcome.
6. Pascal's bookie 6

   8 April 2010 at 11:04 am

   MOSCOW — Large-scale protests on Wednesday appeared to overthrow the government of Kyrgyzstan, an important American ally in Central Asia. Government officials said at least 41 people had been killed in bloody fighting between riot police and demonstrators in the capital of Bishkek and elsewhere in the country.

   While the opposition declared that it was forming its own government, President Kurmanbek Bakiyev left Bishkek in the presidential plane, though it was not clear whether he was leaving the country or heading to another Kyrgyz city.

   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/world/asia/08bishkek.html?hp
7. The Chairman 7

   8 April 2010 at 11:12 am

   Open Country issued an open letter to farmers warning them of the risks of voting to remove share redemption.
   http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/open-letter-dairy-farmers-open-country-dairy/5/44196
8. prism 8

   8 April 2010 at 11:13 am

   lprent – Are we going to get the edit option back? Or is that something that has to wait while more important functions are seen to?
   • lprent 8.1

     8 April 2010 at 11:43 am

     It will go back today at least to see if it has lost the issue. I think I have fixed the caching problem that was allowing people to reedit other peoples comments. But I have to do it when I have a spare hour to look for evidence that the bug is fixed.

     Otherwise, anyone want to do some testing?
9. ianmac 9

   8 April 2010 at 11:20 am

   This morning 8 April Nine to Noon first up : ACC with Jim Anderton then Nick Smith.
   Jim put the case for a sustainable ACC and the effects of patients being turned down and referred instead to the Hospital care. Jim focussed clearly about the issues and the effects of recent cut backs. Excellent.

   Nick Smith had me confused instantly as he jumbled Stats and damned stats. He weaved and wove and obscured the issues to such a point that Katherine I think, was outfoxed. Nick had a chance to explain or rebut but he did not. Thats our ACC that he is playing politics with! Shame!
   • prism 9.1

     8 April 2010 at 11:44 am

     Nick Smith certainly is a consummate politician – he hardly draws breath – I think Katherine found it hard to get a gap for a question, and when she did he would say Let me finish and keep on or that sort of side-step. She kept her head admirably I thought and concentrated on getting to the particular of the matter while he wanted to stress the general.

     It seems that he wanted to impress on us that physio costs had gone up from $55 mil to $150 mil in a few years since they had been made free. (A silly move surely – anybody with a brain could see that there was a big likelihood of moral hazard and waste of money if no cost and personal choice). Now the client has to pay something from the first – a classic example of over-correction. Then there is the questionable estimate of how much money is needed to provide for lifetime care of long-term support with differing amounts of billions.

     In the past silly costs have been able to mount up – remember the guy in a wheelchair who was so gross that no one would provide care services for him. He was sent a 12 year old nephew to provide. He was given a large sum in back payment when someone found he had not been receiving the 24 hour care he was entitled to. That got invested in Australian property I think. The system needs to be targeted and effective but not so tightened with a tourniquet that it atrophies.
10. ianmac 10

    8 April 2010 at 11:55 am

    Nine to Noon ACC:
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/
11. prism 11

    8 April 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Hear Telecom services are kaput again up Auckland way. Isn’t that just an example of how you don’t get good services from the government, they just can’t run thing efficiently like private enterprise.

    Oh that’s right, I can’t trot out that old cliche now, because we did switch over to private enterprise who were going to be so more efficient etc.etc. Didn’t we? I’m almost certain we did. Blast – I’ve been done like a dinner again.
12. lprent 12

    8 April 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Re-edit has gone back on. I think the caching issue is fixed, but it is hard to test.

    Could anyone noticing an ability to re-edit someone elses comment report it through to me at lprent [at] primary.geek.nz.
    • lprent 12.1

      8 April 2010 at 3:15 pm

      No complaints and I can’t see any issues…

      If anyone can – edit this comment in the next 6 minutes 😈
13. the pinkpostman 13

    8 April 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Has anyone noticed that at nearly all the meeting regarding shady “Big Business; ie mining , selling assets ect there is Key, Brownlee and English to the fore.
    But! whose is that regular face just in the background ,watching and observing.? Grosser! Im beginning to wonder if he’s the brains behind the coming plan to privatize and to open up mining . Could this be shadow Tory leader that is the running the show,after all we all realise that Key is just the front man with the pretty face,
14. Quoth the Raven 14

    8 April 2010 at 5:21 pm

    That bloodthirsty tyrant Obama is at it again: Confirmed: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen

    So back then, Obama said the President lacks the power merely to detain U.S. citizens without charges. Now, as President, he claims the power to assassinate them without charges. Could even his hardest-core loyalists try to reconcile that with a straight face? As Spencer Ackerman documents today, not even John Yoo claimed that the President possessed the power Obama is claiming here.

    Where are the people here in New Zealand that bought the lie that Obama represented some change and wasn’t just another authoritarian corporatist-progressive?
    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      8 April 2010 at 6:45 pm

      You don’t really expect anything else from a country that thinks itself above the law do you?
      • Quoth the Raven 14.1.1

        8 April 2010 at 7:10 pm

        and it’s their own law this time. As bush said the constitution’s just a “goddamned piece of paper”. A piece of paper Obama is pissing all over. It’s folly to believe you can constrain the outrageous usurption that is government with a piece of paper.
15. ianmac 15

    8 April 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Q the R: I think that Obama was described as Democrat -Left Wing but translated into NZ he would be somewhere between Bill and John ie hardly on the Left of NZ politics. Some suggest that the lobby groups in USA are so powerful that no President is really in power.
    • Quoth the Raven 15.1

      8 April 2010 at 5:52 pm

      Increasingly my thoughts are that the left-right spectrum is meaningless. Historically it may have had some meaning left to right libertarian to authoritarian. In the back and forth of contemporary politics it seems debased. The President of the United States certainly is a very powerful figure. Lobby groups are called lobby groups because they lobby. If the state didn’t have the power to privilege those they represent or interfere on their behalf they’d have no power. The point is that people shouldn’t buy into hollow men like Obama or our own crop of conceited politicians, National, Labour, Greens or anyone else vying for your vote or to “represent” you.
16. freedom 16

    8 April 2010 at 7:37 pm

    who needs facts, let’s tell more lies,
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3562086/Waihopai-not-a-US-run-spybase

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