Open mike 09/04/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 9th, 2019 - 140 comments
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140 comments on “Open mike 09/04/2019 ”

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  1. Observer Tokoroa 1
    9 April 2019 at 7:27 am

    No time for weak Knees

    Every normal person knows that the Ordinary Workforce must receive fully adequate Pay for their Skills and Diligence. But they don’t get that proper pay !

    Every Normal shopper knows that Massive Corporates such as Fonterra, are charging excessive prices for a block of bland cheese scudded together within a very few hours.

    Meat, which we get by killing millions of cows owned by box seat Happy Farmers, is too expensive for ordinary capable and hard working citizens.

    Then, of course there is a tragic impost upon hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders who rent hovels from Property owners who pay little or no taxes.

    Not that the Farmers pay much Tax. If any.

    This Outrage spawned by the sick scum called National, are responsible for the horrific in-equality between those who pay no Tax – and the workers who pay tax on everything they earn.

    The Coalition Government must have several strategies to ENSURE that EVERY PERSON living in New Zealand EVERY WEEK must pay full Tax on every Transaction.

    Just like the workers and pensioners do !

    The Penalty for NOT paying present and past Tax – Must Be Prison – Plus 70% additional Tax.

    Corporates and Accountants who find wonderful loopholes – will be sent to Prison for Minimum tens years. For subvering the intent of the Legislation.

    • AB 1.1
      9 April 2019 at 8:01 am

      Those who are on the winning side of the grotesque disproportionality between how people are rewarded and the actual value of what they do, will defend it to the death.

    • bwaghorn 1.2
      9 April 2019 at 11:40 am

      Your an idiot . A farmer I know just paid $ 70 I in tax . And that’s off a small mid size sheep n beef farm . That’s not including rates and the income tax paid by sharing contractors etc.

      Actually your not an idiot your an ill informed lying piece of shit

      • Observer Tokoroa 1.2.1
        9 April 2019 at 11:54 am

        Thanks Mrs Waghorn

        It is only right that you Pay shearers. It is a normal part of the cost of Business and it is not a Tax.

        You are very ill informed Lady. But I am glad you Pay the Shearers.

        You can go to school and learn the difference between Costs and Taxes.

        Bye now.

        • bwaghorn 1.2.1.1
          9 April 2019 at 12:00 pm

          Good riddance idiot

        • greywarshark 1.2.1.2
          9 April 2019 at 12:05 pm

          Observer T
          That’s not constructive discussion. I would have thought you could have made your point without dissing another regular. Don’t people learn to learn from each other even after long times spent on this blog?

          Saying farmers pay no tax is just the sort of drivel that you get in the pub.
          If you have some figures about the tax exemptions that farmers get that enable them to keep going through most bad years, but perhaps they have got out of hand say what and how.

          Otherwise you are getting to be a rabble rouser.

          • One Two 1.2.1.2.1
            9 April 2019 at 5:19 pm

            Actually your (sic) not an idiot your (sic) an ill informed lying piece of shit

            Did you selectively filter out this part of waghorns response to OT, gw…

            • greywarshark 1.2.1.2.1.1
              9 April 2019 at 8:33 pm

              Oh join in one two you know all about telling people how things should be done. Can’t restrain yourself here.

              And Observer – good homily from me and good that you noticed it.

              You ask me about stuff that you know about or should. Tell me don’t ask me.the facts. I am interested in knowing stuff but without the manure dressing.

              And when did i call you evil and idiot? I think you are losing it. Read what people say and stick to the facts. I hope kids get taught how to argue well keeping to the point now, as some of the older ones here are real doozies.

          • Observer Tokoroa 1.2.1.2.2
            9 April 2019 at 5:46 pm

            Thank you for your little Homily.

            Could you advise me how much Tax was paid by every member of the Farming Community over the past 10 years ? With emphasis on varieties of freebies and corporate and political discounts.

            Please carefully note how many Freebies were given to Workers in New Zealand during the past decade.

            Then call me an Idiot and an evil man Greywarshark.

        • Sabine 1.2.1.3
          9 April 2019 at 5:39 pm

          and please do not mock a bloke by pretending he is a women .

          Cause most of us women who work pay taxes and don’t whinge about it.

          thanks.

          • bwaghorn 1.2.1.3.1
            9 April 2019 at 5:56 pm

            Where did i fucking whinge . ?? I just pointed out that the idiot from tokoroa is a lying fool.

            • Sabine 1.2.1.3.1.1
              9 April 2019 at 6:59 pm

              you where whinging.

              And the guy from Tokoroa is quite right. Farmer whinge. A lot. They fuck up the rivers, they don’t care how they treat their stock, their land, their environment, for sure don’t give a flying fuck about anyone not a farmer, and need the government to bail them repeatedly.

              There is no business in NZ that would get bailed out if they literally on purpose by refusing to follow rules and best practice and poison their stock and then cry and whinge for the government.

              A bit like the guy who fathers eleventy children, needs working for families to pay for these children that he on his own actually can’t afford and holds up a sign ‘She is a pretty Communist’.

              Fact is that NZ farmers whinge. About the useless youth (Bill English, pencil pusher and son of a farmer), the federated farmer dude who whinges about the undeserving people on the dole – of course that does not apply to his farmers on working for families, and all the farmers that whinge about having to pay some CGT if they sell the farm. Cause paying taxes is for workers, not Landlords. Right 🙂

              • bwaghorn …
                10 April 2019 at 11:48 am

                Your living proof that the further left you get the more like the far right people get . It just who you hate is difference.
                Cherry picking worst case scenarios lto prove a point means you are just plain thick.
                I called tok dude on a lie that is all .

      • Sabine 1.2.2
        9 April 2019 at 5:38 pm

        mate, if that farmer that you know paid this in taxes then he is not a poor man.

        so go find a tree on a dairy farm and go cry up its branches.

    • soddenleaf 1.3
      9 April 2019 at 11:59 am

      Don’t forget how employees are carrying their company shareholders, unlike in Australia. When we don’t pay cgt then more of the services of govt come from income taxes. Same work, same pay, same income tax, but since we in nz aren’t paying cgt, we get less services of govt. And it’s worse, capital gainers make more use of govt services, wealth needs protection, wealth allows for foreign travel, wealth gets you the experts to get the most out of govt, Its cgt profit powering the ads saying no cgt. We carry the wealth class and tgey know it, they argue they worked hard to own a capital asset, but really not as hard as Aussie or brits, as their competition overseas. You see your capital gainer is entitled to not be taxed, and so carried by income earners. And it gets worse, since pressure to build capital gain means pressure to cut wages, unlike in oz, and that means owners sell out earlier, sell their ip off overseas… etc.
      All the lower productivity stats are down to it being to easy to earn capital gain, why are house price so high, well inflate as people aren’t paying cgt, more demand by speculators.

      We Ned our parliament to keep up with cat, gun laws, loan sharks laws, otherwise the moment they close the door in Aussie the mugs just fly over here and keep their unproductive activities goin here.

      • greywarshark 1.3.1
        9 April 2019 at 12:09 pm

        The wealthy don’t have to really work hard, just a bit to get a start and if you can make the right financial decisions then hard yakker is what you order your employees to do. You borrow money and make sure that you make something for yourself, and get out of paying it back so then you have a double income from the business, and from stealing from others. How many failing businesses are not paying proper wages to their employees, or not paying for supplies used in the business – essentially being provided with free credit. Then they put on a different suit and some dark glasses and buzz off leaving others in the pooh.

        • soddenleaf 1.3.1.1
          11 April 2019 at 12:38 pm

          Workers in nz are carrying their bosses when their bosses competition in Australia is having to pay a capital gains tax. This is a subsidy, not remunirations from hard work. Worse, it incentivizes the points you make about lowing wages, paying less wages, etc. As asset prices for homes are higher and the managers need more profits to buy into the housing market. It’s not even good capitalism as it’s shifts the rewards to unproductive rent seeking, like we don’t ordinarily have enough of that with capitalism. The press tell us they are going to be hard done by when a CGT is introduced, but really its the advertisers, big real estate, big money marketeers, and crony banks, who need the work.

          • soddenleaf 1.3.1.1.1
            1 May 2019 at 2:19 pm

            really, i can reply to past posts I made but all new replays are effectively blocked as the Android tablet onscreen keyboard disappears. this new applet ain't working.

    • CHCoff 1.4
      9 April 2019 at 8:03 pm

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/farmers-feel-duped-illogical-gun-ban-bill-unless-changes-made-group-warns

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111897446/taking-guns-from-farmers-and-making-them-use-contractors-completely-illogical

      The NZ farmer is on a ticking time bomb. International Borderless Corporate Capital knows how to do one thing, covet resources. They may lack leadership in overcoming petty prejudices of their sector expounded upon by media.

      Muldoon was no red flag socialist in New Zealand being for New Zealanders. The NZ farmer safety net is a strong local market and custom. The NZ coalition govts. type of approach to this is the best shot they’ve got.

  2. cleangreen 2
    9 April 2019 at 7:42 am

    100% Observer Tokoroa. – Aroha.

    My blog on INCOGNITO’s article today ‘Are we expecting to much from our political leader’s” is succinct here also.

    Government must honour their promises made, Jacinda asked us all at the 2018 Waitangi meeting to ‘check every promise our government has made’.

    Simply put;
    *Firstly now we need to place all the ‘pledges’ Labour leader put together in her pre-election speech when Jacinda said “let’s do this”.
    * with the actual ‘pledges’ actually provided to us now when Labour are over half their term of Government.
    * Then place those results alongside the term “transformational”as their ‘key founding policy and see if Labour actually are a transformational Government at all, or just another neoliberal penny pinching risk adverse Government.

    Voters aren’t fools and are looking for real transformation here, and the release of the “Zero Carbon Act” will be labour’s “Nuclear moment” – I believe.

    Jacinda; yes and we are doing this now.

    • Observer Tokoroa 2.1
      9 April 2019 at 8:40 am

      Hi Cleangreen

      The Coalition would be very unwise to outlay loads of assistance to farmers – and small towns in the South Island – and let the Huge need of Whakatane, – thru Napier dwindle away and be destroyed.

      Te Puke, Whakatane, Opotiki – mmm mmm mmm Tolaga, Gisborne have heaps of human beings in their areas. Napier exists on Art Deco visitor numbers and 1920s limos. All of Hawkes Bay is vital too.

      Currently these areas are bone dry.

      The Coalition must grow from pocket kerchiefs – into Worthy Mighty Italianos.

      In my opinion. I am with You.

  3. Muttonbird 3
    9 April 2019 at 7:51 am

    Gosh, Liam Hehir is a particularly ugly sort.

    Here he uses Utoya Island to predict the downfall of the Ardern government. He finishes up by consoling Jacinda with pat-her-head condescension.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111863804/when-political-realities-of-the-day-collide-with-grace-and-poise

    Hehir has had enough of compassion and is ready to move on to the ugly realities of political life which he craves.

    • Dennis Frank 3.1
      9 April 2019 at 8:02 am

      Seemed a fair appraisal to me. I’ve had to criticise a few of his past essays but nothing pushed my button in this one. Folks are moving on. He expects her to get a second term as PM despite his valid analogy to Norway – what more could you want?

      • Shadrach 3.1.1
        9 April 2019 at 11:13 am

        I’m with you Dennis. Hehir seems to strike the right balance between praise and pragmatism. I think we can all recognise the job the PM has done in dealing with what happened in Christchurch without letting that cloud our judgement on other issues.

        • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1
          9 April 2019 at 3:25 pm

          Well, that is no surprise.

          The tone of Hehir’s article is that JA has done a good job at what women are good at – compassion – but that she should leave the rest of running a country to men who know what they are doing.

          Jordan Peterson would be proud!

          Also Hehir fails to note that Jens Stoltenberg was PM for 6 years prior to Utoya Island and indeed had been PM 5 years before that. That Stoltenberg was the PM of Norway for 10 years in total. Hehir fails to acknowledge Stoltenberg and his government were held responsible for the conditions under which that attack took place and the state’s ability to prevent it. JA’s government at 18 months old inherited NZ’s security apparatus and soft gun laws.

          • Shadrach 3.1.1.1.1
            9 April 2019 at 5:47 pm

            “The tone of Hehir’s article is that JA has done a good job at what women are good at – compassion – but that she should leave the rest of running a country to men who know what they are doing.”
            What rubbish. And you still don’t seem to realise that Hehir is actually saying the PM will be reelected. Her biggest problem is the incompetence of those around her, but that’s a different discussion.

            • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1.1.1
              9 April 2019 at 5:55 pm

              He grudgingly accepts that to be the likely scenario in one throwaway line at the end. The rest of the article argues against it.

              • Shadrach …
                9 April 2019 at 7:58 pm

                No, it doesn’t. It simply argues that the PM will find that the issues her government faces will not go away just because of the events of Christchurch. It’s a very well written piece that I suspect will be remarkably prescient.

                • Muttonbird …
                  9 April 2019 at 8:03 pm

                  It’s a bitter piece in thin disguise. Literally no one can touch JA on her leadership so right wing pundits will attempt to undermine her any way they can including poorly examined analogies and attacking the coalition’s junior partner.

                  • Shadrach …
                    9 April 2019 at 8:28 pm

                    Keep telling yourself that. The truth is that you’re going to need to get a thicker skin if you were that concerned about what Hehir. As for Peter’s past comments about Muslims, they are very relevant. If the PM wants to milk the publicity (and there is no reason why she shouldn’t) , she’s opened that door well and truly.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      9 April 2019 at 8:30 pm

                      She hasn’t milked the publicity at all. That’s the kind of thing someone bitter about her leadership qualities would say.

                      Even Liam Hehir didn’t say that.

                    • Shadrach …
                      11 April 2019 at 6:49 am

                      Of course she has. And it isn’t a criticism. She is a politician. Any of them would have done it.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.2
        9 April 2019 at 12:20 pm

        I previously made a comment similar to the one below on The Standard, but I’d be interested in your honest opinion, Dennis.

        I’m not yet ready to ‘move on’ from the recent mass murder of theists (and some very young children) at a place of worship in Christchurch.

        Maybe the calls to ‘move on’ would be less numerous, and/or more muted, if the mass murderer had been Muslim and/or the murder victims had been Christians engaged in prayer.

    • marty mars 3.2
      9 April 2019 at 8:13 am

      Yep – plenty of people found wanting over these dark days – from the ‘get over it’ crew to the pathetic ‘white victim’ mentality of the weak. We’ve seen it all and what a sorry arsed crew they are lol. Luckily we’re just going to do it anyway and the sniveling cowards can tag along and we’ll carry them like we always do.

      • WeTheBleeple 3.2.1
        9 April 2019 at 4:11 pm

        “from the ‘get over it’ crew to the pathetic ‘white victim’ mentality of the weak. We’ve seen it all and what a sorry arsed crew they are ”

        Yep. Fucking disgraceful shameful human beings.

        • Stuart Munro. 3.2.1.1
          11 April 2019 at 1:11 pm

          “Fucking disgraceful shameful human beings.”

          Indeed you are – a truly contemptable specimen.

          • greywarshark 3.2.1.1.1
            13 April 2019 at 12:22 pm

            Stuart Munro
            What got you on this calling out of individuals on this blog in such an attacking manner. What’s your excuse. You make thoughtful comments often so why now show such contempt for others in this shameful exchange of harsh criticism against others who are referring to groups and zttitudes not individuals?

            • Stuart Munro. 3.2.1.1.1.1
              13 April 2019 at 5:20 pm

              Goes back to a narrative from WTB on the 5.04 and possibly before.

              Where he claimed I had the ‘white victim mentality’ – so these comments were unquestionably directed at me.

              The fact is, in any country there are victims of every description, and calumniating any one group to deny them political access to redress is an impropriety.

      • Stuart Munro. 3.2.2
        11 April 2019 at 1:03 pm

        I’m sure there will always be a place for despicable gaslighters like yourself Marty. You know that old saying honi soit qui mal y pense? That’s about you.

        • marty mars 3.2.2.1
          11 April 2019 at 4:06 pm

          I’m despicable now? Lol bullyboy strikes a pose.

          • Stuart Munro. 3.2.2.1.1
            13 April 2019 at 9:14 am

            You’ve a fine one to talk about bullying Marty.

            Stick to what you know – which appears to be fuck all.

            • marty mars 3.2.2.1.1.1
              13 April 2019 at 11:48 am

              i don’t really mind you stu because you’re so in your little wee world I hardly interact with you – I’m happy with that. I couldn’t care less what you think of me so just get on with your shit and i’ll get on with mine. I’d rather sort rwnj’s out than waste time with gentle debating with you.

              • Stuart Munro. …
                13 April 2019 at 12:18 pm

                Yet you came for me with big boots on – defending the slaveships that you patently know nothing about.

                Did you spend years doing 116 hour weeks on 10% of a deckhands rate? Because until you have you don’t have the standing to talk down to me on the wrecking of the NZ fishing industry.

                You arrogantly assumed my position was white privilege – you never had to go to an MP as worthless as Sideline Stan to try to work out how to get your junior colleagues up onto the minimum wage – not that he was worth a damn. Three out of ten of those guys have since taken their own lives – more than slightly above the national average.

                You can run your mouth on patently false postmodern bullshit all you like, but stay away from this topic until you know something about it.

                • marty mars …
                  13 April 2019 at 12:26 pm

                  I’m sorry you have been hurt.

                  None of your comment related to ANYTHING I have said to you so it must be coming from you. I don’t care about your hard life apart from being sorry that you’ve had to go through it. Don’t interact with me anymore please.

  4. Peter 4
    9 April 2019 at 8:17 am

    Dirty politics on Radiosport this morning with claims that the PM and Sports Minister had ordered the rugby people to get rid of the Crusaders name.

    It was the topic of discussion at least three times before 7am. Any reservations or doubts about the veracity of the story or the likelihood of it being true were casual addenda after creating the impression that there’d not just been political input but the rugby people had been ”ordered’ to get rid of the name.

    A breathless reporter, probably sick of waiting outside airport toilets hoping an All Black would enter with another person or animal, was all “according to sources.”

    Some of the early listeners would have gone to work convinced we were North Korea and Jacinda Ardern was Kim Jong-un. They would have missed the truth coming out.

    Newstalkzb and Radiosport were used by some scumbag making something up and giving it to them. Obviously with ill-intent. What would’ve been a poor April fools jape was instead a desperate, mischievous scummy act preying on amateur media people at NZME who, unsurprisingly, were sucked in

    • mac1 4.1
      9 April 2019 at 8:51 am

      At the post Cabinet press conference yesterday, PM Ardern was closely questioned about whether the Crusaders should change their name. She welcomed the discussion but said it was up to the fans, the rugby union, the franchise to decide. She was even asked for her personal opinion. She refused to give it.

      That performance is much at odds woth what seems to have happened on Radiosport. Obviously, some reporters don’t listen to what other reporters are told.

      Or, they’ve been so used to duplicitous PMs in the past that they can’t accept what a PM says in full press conference without holding on to a totally different narrative that is hidden.

      Possibly because it doesn’t exist?

      • Peter 4.1.1
        9 April 2019 at 9:07 am

        A reporter was excited about having got it from ‘sources.’ The reporter was Josh Price.

        Part of the discussion on air this morning had it (a name change) as “ordered by the Government” and “driven by Ardern and Robinson.”

    • Skunk Weed 4.2
      9 April 2019 at 12:33 pm

      MSM making up B/S again and laying it on the PM complaints should be made to Broadcasting Standards ?

    • Cinny 4.3
      9 April 2019 at 12:47 pm

      It’s been conversation topic at work from ‘Mr Rugby Racing and Beer’ this morning who listens to newstalk ZB.

      Even though on the radio station at work (not ZB) soundbites are played about Jacinda not being involved in the whole situation. This doesn’t suit the narrative of Mr Rugby Racing and Beer. He clings on to what he wants to hear and blocks out the rest regardless of the facts.

      Propaganda and dirty politics via a right wing radio station, what a surprise… not.

    • McFlock 4.4
      9 April 2019 at 1:15 pm

      That’s actually a smart move to shore up the tory base. boofheads obviously have their knickers in a twist about dressing up in armour and swinging swords because…[reasons]… so a nice little word from a “source” (too smart for the nats, I suspect, but someone playing silly buggers) that the fiendish labs are trying to change the name tweaks a little bit of nativism into a political issue.

      Evil, but smart. Almost certainly not the nats.

  5. ianmac 5
    9 April 2019 at 9:17 am

    A breath of fresh air on CGT from Alison Pavlovich. If she had a full audience the naysayers would scuttle away in shame. Quaint that this appears in the Herald given the airtime they give to the negatives on CGT.

    “Currently, in New Zealand, some income is taxed and some is not. The income that is taxed is typically derived from personal services (“hard work”) and from investments of capital (interest, rent and dividends). The income that is not taxed is typically derived from market movement, such as capital gains on assets.”…..

    “…If the government were to implement the recommendations of the Tax Working Group report, most New Zealanders would find themselves with an increase in their after tax income. Greater equality would seem to be more consistent with Kiwi values than the status quo.”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12220510

    • WeTheBleeple 5.1
      9 April 2019 at 9:22 am

      Was about to post the same. A breath of fresh air indeed.

      Now let’s open the windows, let some light in and get a breeze going.

      “Not taxing capital gains results in a failure to achieve both horizontal and vertical equity.”

      • ianmac 5.1.1
        9 April 2019 at 10:57 am

        Strange isn’t it WeTheBleeple? To read Alison’s column makes it all seem so reasonable and with the bonus that many taxpayers will gain.

        “If the government were to implement the recommendations of the Tax Working Group report, most New Zealanders would find themselves with an increase in their after tax income. Greater equality would seem to be more consistent with Kiwi values than the status quo.”
        Funny that is not what Simple Simon says.

    • The Chairman 5.2
      9 April 2019 at 11:56 am

      Below are a few points and questions in regards to that CGT opinion piece.

      First off, we currently have a capital gains tax.

      As for investment distortions, banks are the ones that largely fund property investment and widening the scope of a CGT won’t change their investment preference when lending out funding for investment.

      Therefore, one is dreaming if they believe a CGT will lead banks to change this investment preference, thus lead to more significant productive investment.

      Moreover, timing is key. Why is the Government pushing a CGT ( further discouraging property investment) when we have a housing shortage thus require more investment in housing?

      And when it comes to fairness, why is projected returns for a CGT far larger than the suggested corresponding tax cuts?

      • KJT 5.2.1
        9 April 2019 at 4:33 pm

        Because in the interests of fairness.

        Speculators gaming the system to make unearned gains, should pay more tax, and “hard working Kiwi’s, less.

        • The Chairman 5.2.1.1
          10 April 2019 at 1:03 pm

          A CGT is expected to return $6 billion annually within 10 years. So that could go some way towards reducing inequality.

          Unfortunately, tax cuts are only expected to range between $400 and several hundred a year costing about $2 billion annually with NZ Superannuation payments only increasing by a mere few hundred dollars a year and other benefit recipients receiving far less.

          Does that seem like a fair redistribution to you?

          • KJT 5.2.1.1.1
            10 April 2019 at 2:02 pm

            For the future health of our society, Government needs to take in more tax, not less.

            However income tax payers, currently fund most of it, with wealth or financial gains taxes only funding a small part.

            • The Chairman 5.2.1.1.1.1
              10 April 2019 at 2:42 pm

              Largely agree with your sentiments. However, you didn’t answer my question.

              The suggested redistribution will be a problem if Labour runs with these recommendations.

              • KJT …
                10 April 2019 at 2:56 pm

                No, it doesn’t.

                Welfare should be returned to pre -Richardson levels at least, for one.

                And the progressiveness of our tax system restored.

                Currently one of the least progressive in the OECD.

                https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/public-financial-management/0/steps/14705
                “Adam Smith argued that taxation should follow the four principles of fairness, certainty, convenience and efficiency. Fairness, in that taxation should be compatible with taxpayers’ conditions, including their ability to pay in line with personal and family needs. Certainty should mean that taxpayers are clearly informed about why and how taxes are levied. Convenience relates to the ease of compliance for the taxpayers: how simple is the process for collecting or paying taxes? Finally, efficiency touches on the collection of taxes: basically put, the administration of tax collection should not negatively affect the allocation and use of resources in the economy, and certainly shouldn’t cost more than the taxes themselves”.

                • The Chairman …
                  10 April 2019 at 3:33 pm

                  “Welfare should be returned to pre -Richardson levels at least, for one.”

                  At the least indeed. A CGT provides the Government with the funding to that and much more. The question is, will Labour utilize the opportunity?

                  Therefore, not only should the left be advocating for a capital gains tax, we should be also advocating for a far fairer redistribution of the new tax take generated. Do you hear that Shaw and co (i.e. the Greens)?

                  When it comes to tax fairness, how it is spent plays a large role. After all, it’s a two-way street.

                  • KJT …
                    11 April 2019 at 11:29 am

                    Greens are advocating for welfare rates people can survive on.

                    Difficult to get traction after decades of bene bashing.

                    Hard to fathom the lack of opposition to corporate welfare.

                    • The Chairman …
                      12 April 2019 at 11:49 pm

                      “Greens are advocating for welfare rates people can survive on.”

                      Yes, but to date, sadly to no avail. Hence, it looks as if they have given up.

                      They need to show voters they are doing more work on this.

                      The funding a CGT will generate provides them with another opportunity to publicly do so.

                      Sadly, I’ve heard nothing from them on this of late, have you?

                    • KJT …
                      13 April 2019 at 9:01 am

                      Have a look on the Green Facebook page.

                      If you go by the mainstream media, you would think the Greens have disappeared down a parliamentary black hole.

                      That is not the case.

      • WeTheBleeple 5.2.2
        9 April 2019 at 4:39 pm

        Yes we have a CGT – with no teeth. We know the place is rife with speculators, they’re in every bar in Ponsonby admiring themselves just go after dark take a listen. Although, you can hear the recent whining from here…

        Banks loan money out of ‘thin air’ against the surety of someone’s deposit and the promise of a house constructed. Then they also ‘loan’ the interest out of thin air, and all of society is in debt to this interest forcing GDP growth to avoid defaults everywhere.

        Construction leads GDP growth. Everyone collectively owes more than they collectively own, a clever banking trick to keep us all chasing rainbows aka endless growth on a finite imperiled planet.

        Investments are hugely distorted by this. Businesses are riskier than housing and banks are risk averse. Housing investors collect passive gains in value, banks collect interest from the promise of future growth…

        Who’s doing all the work, producing the goods, adding the services – the taxed.

        This is the model you ‘experts’ (corporate bludgers and liars) work within, fight for, preach about. Growth and capital accrual at all costs. Bleeding the working class dry building housing for the idle rich to play monopoly with.

        It’s great for bankers and spankers, stimulates inequality, will come at the price of the planet but hey, we’re all stupid if we’re not doing it too, right?

        Some of us chose not to be antisocial greedy assholes, others lined up, got the t-shirt.

        • The Chairman 5.2.2.1
          10 April 2019 at 1:27 pm

          CGT has been given more teeth (i.e. the bright-line test & its extension out to 5 years). Unfortunately, it’s to early to gauge the full impact of this.

          Nevertheless, a CGT won’t rid us of property speculators, it will merely clip their ticket (as shown overseas). Excessive capital gains are the symptom of a overheated housing market. And as we all know, attacking the symptom and not the cause won’t eradicate the problem.

          Banks operate under a fractional reserve banking system and your stated consequences of thus are largely correct .

          This is the model that only one political party I’m aware of is vowing to change. Yet, they don’t even register in the polls. So clearly, this is a system many voters don’t want to oppose.

          • KJT 5.2.2.1.1
            10 April 2019 at 2:05 pm

            Tax is only one of a whole package of measures needed.

            It is not correct to claim that CGT, evening the tax treatment of all investments, will have no effect.

            The extreme skew of investment, towards speculating in existing assets, rather than building up for the future, is something a full CGT, will change.

            • The Chairman 5.2.2.1.1.1
              10 April 2019 at 2:37 pm

              I didn’t claim it wouldn’t have no effect on investment. But with banks largely funding property investment, it’s clear a CGT won’t result in changing their (banks) risk preference, thus result in a significant increase in productive investment.

              In fact, the unintended consequence of this (CGT) may be that investors simply start flipping more homes than they currently are to help offset the new tax burden.

              • KJT …
                10 April 2019 at 2:59 pm

                Possible.
                Which is why a CGT, should be combined with other measures, like ethical immigration, lots of State rental houses, banks carrying more of their mortgage lending risk for speculative purchases, etc.

              • WeTheBleeple …
                11 April 2019 at 8:04 am

                That’s almost dishonest. Banks don’t control which loans people are applying for, they just skew favorable results to real estate and people keep padding out their portfolios for the free ride.

                If investors flip more homes that’s not a concern the tax gets paid the free ride is over. There will be less speculation from every man and his dog making regulation of the actual landlords and rental market that much easier.

                Passive income is not a business, merely a free ride for opportunists who don’t care to contribute except that they get paid. The damage caused is considerable. Right wing mouthpieces protecting this structure consistently attack the working class as ignorant and lazy when in actual fact the workers are the ones doing the hard graft. The number of wine bloated bastards calling them lazy however…

                shameful.

                • The Chairman …
                  11 April 2019 at 8:45 am

                  I didn’t claim banks control what loans people apply for. They control what loans are approved. And as you are aware, property is favoured. Therefore, one can’t seriously expect a significant change to the productive sector.

                  Moreover, the tax incentive is merely one of many factors investors consider before investing. Hence, as the productive sector is deemed a higher risk by and large (and in some cases a more hands on/involved investment) it has far less investor appeal.

                  Of course investors flipping more homes would be a concern. A CGT doesn’t prevent a housing boom nor does it alleviate the far wider problems a overheated housing market creates.

                  • WeTheBleeple …
                    11 April 2019 at 9:21 am

                    I think when all the ‘mom/pop investor’ types drop off there will be considerably less speculation as there will be considerably less speculators. Those left would have to be VERY busy to generate even today’s slightly muted level of turnover.

                    Housing is not really productivity at all. It might be called this due to the activity of building the house, after that, nada. A business gets built and then runs creating employment and production of products and/or services.

                    Our economy is firmly seated in non-productive assets while at the same time bank systems demand GDP growth.

                    Business lends higher risk for higher returns, or losses. Investors that are actually investors. Be nice to have and encourage more entrepreneurs in the market as opposed to this glut of self-entitled schemers.

                    Housing is a gravy train that has skewed the housing market and economy, and is a considerable driver of inequality.

                    To me, that is unacceptable.

  6. joe90 6
    9 April 2019 at 9:29 am

    Die, FB.

    https://twitter.com/JCE_PC/status/1115090993395654657

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018689989/zuckerberg-disingenuous-with-facebook-live-fixes-privacy-commissioner

    “Facebook cannot be trusted. They are morally bankrupt pathological liars who enable genocide (Myanmar), facilitate foreign undermining of democratic institutions,” NZ Privacy Commissioner John Edwards posted to Twitter last night, in his most pointed attack on the social network yet.

    “[They] allow the live streaming of suicides, rapes, and murders, continue to host and publish the mosque attack video, allow advertisers to target ‘Jew haters’ and other hateful market segments, and refuse to accept any responsibility for any content or harm. They #DontGiveAZuck,” Edwards said in a follow-up tweet.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12220247

    • marty mars 6.1
      9 April 2019 at 12:08 pm

      Yep they want murder videos and worse relating to the exploitation and abuse of children to be available. So they can make money – that’s how low these scum are.

      • Sabine 6.1.1
        9 April 2019 at 5:42 pm

        so we also then ban youtube?
        vevo?
        any life stream service?
        any chat service?
        skype?

        • WeTheBleeple 6.1.1.1
          9 April 2019 at 6:12 pm

          One on one or conference video calls are very different to a live streaming free-for-all.

          These amoral assholes should not be allowed in business.

          • Sabine 6.1.1.1.1
            9 April 2019 at 6:54 pm

            so you want to ban twitter then, i forgot that on the list.

            cause the Christchurch killer live streamed on twitter?

            What else would you ban?

            Instagram? Photosharing apps? Google Pictures?

            and what if someone considers you an amoral asshole? Should you then be banned too from social media?

            Or is it only for those that you don’t approve.

            • marty mars 6.1.1.1.1.1
              9 April 2019 at 7:43 pm

              If they are life streaming rape, murder and abuse of adults or children then yes close the fuckers down. This won’t stop people doing this horrendous shit but it will stop their mates all wanking off to it in real time.

              • Sabine …
                9 April 2019 at 8:17 pm

                so then we are gonna ban tv? Cuse there is a lot of rape, abuse, and other shit that might inspire someone.

                Seriously? What next ban books? maybe the bible, its full of rape, abuse and other shit?

                Maybe you want to ban mobile phones? Someone could film something that you find objectionable.

                Or cameras.

                And art. Gotta ban a lot of art too.

                • Muttonbird …
                  9 April 2019 at 8:24 pm

                  You are German, right?

                • greywarshark …
                  9 April 2019 at 8:27 pm

                  Surely Sabine you would want good controls on what marty mars listed? If you want to sound caution just say so, That would be sincere without confusion.

                • marty mars …
                  9 April 2019 at 8:57 pm

                  I think you are extrapolating too far personally. I am okay with closing down the activities as I listed them. If you think that will lead to TV being banned I have to say i don’t agree with you.

  8. phantom snowflake 8
    9 April 2019 at 11:23 am

    Formed in response to the Christchurch massacres, PAPAROA.ORG is a vital resource for anyone interested in being informed about or countering white supremacism in Aotearoa/New Zealand.

    Provisional goals:
    • To provide practical, moral and financial support for those affected by alt-right and far-right attacks;
    • To identify white supremacists, their supporters, their gangs and potentially dangerous ‘lone wolves’;
    • To share this information widely, insofar as the law allows, while seeking constructive dialogue at all times;
    • To build cooperative relationships with any group, academic, faith community or individual working in the same area.

    An outline of the main organisations and individuals of the local far-right scene: (Will be updated.)
    https://paparoa.org/secure/an-introduction-the-organised-far-right-in-aotearoa-nz/

    PAPAROA on twitter: https://twitter.com/Paparoa3

  9. Andre 9
    9 April 2019 at 12:10 pm

    An interesting illustration of the weirdness that ensues when you try to reduce something harmful (in this case emissions) by introducing caps and credits etc, rather than just biting the bullet and taxing the harmful behaviour.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/07/tesla-fiat-dance-an-interesting-tango/

    • KJT 9.1
      9 April 2019 at 4:42 pm

      Interesting comment from the other side, from an oil and gas executive.

      His comment was, in his opinion “taxes, and regulations, shift emissions from the country with the taxes and regulations, to one without, without affecting the overall level of emissions”.
      Whereas emissions trading, if controlled, changed overall emissions worldwide.

      While I have supported tax rather than trading. Maybe, he has a point.

      Noting the coal used in China, to produce products for sale in New Zealand, for example.

  10. greywarshark 10
    9 April 2019 at 12:21 pm

    What is The NZ Initiative’s European director up to here?:
    Oliver Hartwich – this chook is a free-ranging business and economics mercenary. We have to hope he isn’t a bad egg!
    https://nzinitiative.org.nz/about-us/our-people/oliver-hartwich/
    https://nzinitiative.org.nz/about-us/our-people/
    https://nzinitiative.org.nz/about-us/

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018689988/poor-schools-as-good-as-rich-schools-nz-initiative-survey

    Is it intended to lead to performance pay? I can’t see anything good for the people coming out of the Initiative bunch. Or while pointing out that achievement is very affected by the family life of the student, (poor home conditions, poor education, often going together), is it opening the way to restricting education to the likely successful? The unlikely ones to get even less than now. With fewer jobs around, it may be a matter of numbers, being pragmatic and efficient to winnow out the under-achievers.

    • KJT 10.1
      9 April 2019 at 4:48 pm

      We’ve known for a long time that the quality of teaching is as good, if not better, in lower decile schools.
      The difference in results, which the reincarnated business round table appears to have fudged, somehow, is due to the socioeconomic status of the students.

      Not sure what their aim is, but given their history, it will be another attack on Teachers.

      • greywarshark 10.1.1
        9 April 2019 at 4:56 pm

        kjt
        Initiative seems to imply that it’s the family but I think it’s likely to be blaming the family rather than seeing them as actors within a degraded socio-economic class. But that’s same old, same old isn’t it. Been shown in America mid last century. I wonder how much was paid for that report.

        And I think too another attack on teachers will be the outcome. But wrapped up in some sort of empathetic note implying that many teachers are just not up to the difficult task and wanting to bring in the tanks or similar.

  11. Dennis Frank 11
    9 April 2019 at 12:35 pm

    “In a 2018 survey, Netsafe​ defined online hate speech as “any technology-mediated speech or digital communication that offends, discriminates, denigrates, abuses and/or disparages a person(s) on the basis of a group-defining characteristic such as race, ethnicity, gender, nationality, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, and others”.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/111869621/when-does-free-speech-become-hate-speech

    Well, if Netsafe’s definition was enacted as legislation by parliament, the government would have to prosecute all social media online in this country, including this site. Commentators here routinely offend others – many deliberately use terms of abuse that are generally recognised as abusive, and would be deemed as such in a court of law.

    So I suspect Andrew Little’s revision of our hate speech law will become an exercise in futility. Surely he’s got better things to do with his valuable time??

    “The survey found that one in 10 New Zealand adults had been personally targeted with online hate speech in the previous year”. Since Netsafe has gone public with its definition of hate speech as words that offend someone on the basis that they are part of a group, it has become vulnerable to prosecution under a law that incorporates their definition. Social media users could take a class action against Netsafe for offending them!

  12. Peter 12
    9 April 2019 at 12:46 pm

    After the results of a poorly worded survey came out Mike Hosking plunges in with the final answer for a Capital Gains Tax. As usual, his putting together of all the bits gives him his clear picture, which has the depth of an empty paddling pool.

    Mike Hosking: Numbers don’t lie, time for the Government to wake up over CGT
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12220593

  13. Dukeofurl 13
    9 April 2019 at 1:04 pm

    NZ Herald caught out over fake news that Ardern and Robertson pushing for Crusaders name change

    “Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Sports Minister Grant Robertson …
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12220468
    8 hours ago – Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Sports Minister Grant Robertson are keen for the Crusaders to change their name, according to sources close to the rugby side. Ardern will not publicly say whether she wants the name changed after the Christchurch mosque shootings. … The decision to …”

    Was the google search item.
    Hit the link and the story doesnt exist anymore. Even the google cache has been cleaned
    ‘according to sources close to the rugby side’ was code for a big fat lie.

  14. ianmac 14
    9 April 2019 at 2:59 pm

    Jessica Much-Mckay did a sterling job on Q&A last night. Her interview with Chris Hipkins was excellent on Education Reforms. After about 8 minutes.
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2019-e7

    • Anne 14.1
      9 April 2019 at 3:28 pm

      Agree ianmac. Very impressive. What’s more she gave Chris Hipkins every chance to reply to her questions without interruption, and I thought he did a sterling job explaining his side of the argument.

  15. greywarshark 15
    9 April 2019 at 4:51 pm

    People asked to consider the Euthanasia Bill rally to prevent any change. 90% are against it. So one little dying person is hated or feared or avoided by the vast majority of NZs who profess to have some concern and submitted on this.

    This is not caring in action, it’s a collection of doctors doolittles, people pushing their individual wheelbarrows to make a barrier against a person’s right to make a decision about their own bodies and life for themselves.

    Because the submitters all fear death themselves, or their main interest is in money – the estate could go to the wrong person, or they want to die quietly never having had to think about anything themselves and they can’t see why other people don’t just let everything happen to them to someone else’s behest. At 82 they have ‘battled’ etc.

    No one is forcing anyone to adopt this procedure. It should always be at request and after a progression of matters attended to, unless there are special circumstances requiring a Court hearing.

    David Seymour is still trying to push this along.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/386667/euthanasia-bill-not-workable-in-its-present-state-committee
    ACT Leader David Seymour, the MP in charge of the bill, said the changes would include:

    Aligning the bill with existing legislation and regulations
    Strengthening the complaints process by explicitly including options for the registrar to refer cases to the police, health and disability commissioner, coroner, or other authority.
    Making explicit stating that if coercion is suspected at any point in the process the person becomes ineligible for assisted dying.
    Making explicit stating that life insurance contracts must be valid in the case of an assisted death.

    The report said that 90 percent of the 36,700 written submissions opposed the bill.
    “We note that the majority of written submissions discussed only whether assisted dying should be allowed in principle.”

    The Bill is likely to come back for a second reading next month and MPs will cast a conscience vote – following their personal views rather than a party line.
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said she will be voting in favour.
    “I understand those deeply held convictions that means they’ll be opposed to it. My view is the best way that I can allow people to make their own decisions is actually giving them access to that choice.”

    It’s still not clear whether the bill will have enough support once it returns to Parliament.

    • One Two 15.1
      9 April 2019 at 5:26 pm

      This is not caring in action, it’s a collection of doctors doolittles, people pushing their individual wheelbarrows to make a barrier against a person’s right to make a decision about their own bodies and life for themselves.

      Because the submitters all fear death themselves, or their main interest is in money – the estate could go to the wrong person, or they want to die quietly never having had to think about anything themselves and they can’t see why other people don’t just let everything happen to them to someone else’s behest.

      ‘Not caring’ you say…

      You don’t care…you can’t care…continuing to have such thoughts in your head and writing them down with the language and pejorative’s used…says that you don’t.

      You may just even care less than Seymour does…

      Have a stern word with yourself, gw…

      Edit:

      What is going on with your comments in recent times. gw…
      Previously your comments have been some of the more readable on this site…that is no longer the case…

      The past few weeks regression has been steep…

      Hope you are doing ok…

      • greywarshark 15.1.1
        10 April 2019 at 10:00 am

        One Two
        I get impatient with reading your stuff One Two. I did think you might have some veracity on EMF but now I have decided against and think yours are going into ‘regression’ also. Stalemate. Though I don’t think now I read more from you that I would ever call you mate.

    • Rosemary McDonald 15.2
      9 April 2019 at 5:34 pm

      “Because the submitters all fear death themselves, or their main interest is in money…”

      Jesus wept Greywarshark….do you not go back and read what you’ve written before you click on “Submit Comment”?

      Codswallop or hate speech?

      Certainly offensive.

      • One Two 15.2.1
        9 April 2019 at 5:39 pm

        There is always a ‘reason’ behind comments so high in, mean and ignorant levels…

        Perhaps gw, may choose to share his ‘reason’…

        • WeTheBleeple 15.2.1.1
          9 April 2019 at 5:57 pm

          People’s opinion of the protection of the law comes through rosy tinted glasses until they get to spend time at the mercy of the state. The greater your need, the more you are at their mercy. While the current government are in power this rosy colored distortion may be even larger as they don’t seem so horrid as the last lot by a long shot.

          But elections occur.

          Behold the benefit bashing braggadocios, the bold bright bastards of bottom lines. See the peoples plight beneath their profits. They who’ll keep skimping on health; for pain is measured by accountants and shit runs down the walls till death itself will seem more attractive – and there’s the bottom line.

        • Bazza64 15.2.1.2
          9 April 2019 at 7:28 pm

          Maybe GW is losing the plot due to excessive wifi exposure? Solutions:

          – cut down computer time, or
          – time for a new tin foil hat ?

          • Drowsy M. Kram 15.2.1.2.1
            9 April 2019 at 8:53 pm

            “Time for a new tin foil hat” – Bazza, you’ll love this!

            Aluminium foil dampened the adverse effect of 2100 MHz mobile phone–induced radiation on the blood parameters and myocardium in rats

            Unsurprisingly, there has been a recent upsurge in research on how to block anthropogenic EM radiation, but sticking your head in the sand is still the gold standard.

            High ambient radiofrequency radiation in Stockholm city, Sweden
            Oncology Letters (December 2018)
            https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/ol.2018.9789

            I’m happy to continue doing without WiFi and a ‘Smart’ phone while the latest generation of humans does the heavy lifting re research, 5G effects, etc.

    • Rosemary McDonald 15.3
      9 April 2019 at 5:48 pm

      “No one is forcing anyone to adopt this procedure. It should always be at request and after a progression of matters attended to, unless there are special circumstances requiring a Court hearing.”

      I added a comment yesterday to the end of the Life and Death in Aotearoa – Debating Euthanasia thread from the other day.

      I’ll just copy and paste..

      “8 April 2019 at 9:46 am

      Timely piece by Dr. Sinead Donnelly….referring to the Canadian experience both before and after the passing of their Euthanasia Bill.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12219801

      Sadly, even though this confirms that concerns that such a facility will put the lives of people with disabilities, mental health issues and suicidal tendencies at risk, the pro euthanasia lobbyists who refuse to acknowledge the ‘slippery slope’ will simply dismiss this.

      ” A 25-year-old disabled woman in acute crisis in an emergency ward was pressured to consider assisted suicide by an attending physician, who called her mother “selfish” for protecting her.”

      Which seems to echo what Maggie wrote at 20.3.1.1.1. ….

      “We hold on Rosemary, to the people we love, the things we believe, and we pour ourselves into those people. To let go is to admit that life in temporary, to choose death is an abomination because it appears to go against our inbuilt genetic drive to survive.

      I don’t think they are being deliberately selfish and cruel but I do believe they are more focused on what they believe about life and death than the right of others to decide for themselves what is right.”

      I’ve given some thought to that comment over the past few days, you know, trying to be brutally honest and determine if it is down to pure selfishness that I have and will continue to advocate for disabled people in the face of medical professionals who make arbitrary quality of life decisions when treating a disabled person in a health crisis situation.

      The most tragic result of these discussions is to be confronted yet again by the reality of the existence of people out there in our communities who really do still see those with disabilities as having such a low quality of life that death would be a kindness.

      And while it is quite easy to identify those people here and in the comments section of stuff….albeit hiding behind anonymity for the most part… unless someone comes up and says “I’d rather be dead than live like you.” (and this has happened) you simply don’t know if that person or this sees you simply as a lower life form and a lesser human.

      Isolating. And so much for embracing diversity.

      This is us.”

      Unfortunately because many have blinkered vision on this issue and flatly refuse to even consider that there might be perils in legislation such as this, the article I linked to won’t be read. The research it refers to won’t be read. The world is full of closed minded numpties, totally focused on their own interests.

      Sad, really.

      • One Two 15.3.1
        9 April 2019 at 6:01 pm

        Within a year of the ruling, pressure for “Carter Plus” became so great that the federal Government legally committed to considering EAS for dolescents and children, for mental illness alone, and by advance directive (for those who lack capacity, like dementia patients).

        Two and a half years after legalisation, strong lobbies are intensifying their push towards expanding euthanasia as a response to those cases.

        • greywarshark 15.3.1.1
          10 April 2019 at 9:45 am

          1 2
          Link for that quote please. You need to provide this every time you quote something.

          • One Two 15.3.1.1.1
            10 April 2019 at 10:21 am

            The link is in Rosemarys comment which I was replying to, as above…

          • Rosemary McDonald 15.3.1.1.2
            10 April 2019 at 10:25 am

            Buggering damn Greywarshark, keep up!

            I made a less than subtle dig that most won’t bother reading the link I provided…so One Two sends an unsubtle dig back that at least one person did actually open the link and had read it.

            Sigh. The least commenters should do is read what they are about to launch into print about. It’s about respect.

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12219801

            • One Two 15.3.1.1.2.1
              10 April 2019 at 10:59 am

              My intention was to highlight a section of the article for those who don’t read links regarding subjects they comment on…

              We’re living in the twilight zone…there is no doubt about that…

      • greywarshark 15.3.2
        10 April 2019 at 9:54 am

        Rosemary
        It is sad that you can’t think beyond your emotional personal boundaries.

        All people who are so quick to decry my comments which state exactly what is happening and describe people’s thinking which some may not like to examine, try thinking about people who really want this legislation. Spend a few minutes thinking of someone else’s needs and not seeking your own comfort in sticking to unchanging systems because you haven’t the strength of mind to face up to the responsibilities involved with having a democracy. Dare to think about others’ suffering outside your own group interests that lead to imposing as unpleasant deaths on people as were experienced say a century ago.

        Let people go, when they are ready and wanting. And give them a legal process to follow so that it is kept as clean and clear as possible.

        • Rosemary McDonald 15.3.2.1
          10 April 2019 at 10:16 am

          “Rosemary
          It is sad that you can’t think beyond your emotional personal boundaries.”

          You have made your opinions on disabled people quite clear, and can I assume that since you have not disputed my claim, that you agree that there are outrageous disparities in the rights and entitlements between ACC funded disabled and non ACC funded disabled?

          Can I assume that because you have failed to even give a nod of empathy towards those in the non ACC group, you agree with successive NZ governments, including this one, that those whose disability was not caused by an acknowledged accident and who are not supported by ACC are actually lesser humans and less deserving of state support than their ACC funded cousins?

          • greywarshark 15.3.2.1.1
            10 April 2019 at 10:55 am

            Rosemary
            You can not assume such. I have written many comments here and I would expect in at least one of them I have been critical of government allowing ACC to behave as they do.

            I think I was critical last of their use of algorithms instead of human clerks, making decisions about people’s entitlements. If I didn’t I thought it. There are so many deeply troubling matters continuing in NZs health and welfare system.

            And government seems unable to make a cogent effort to consult with affected groups to establish what level of service the affected reasonably need from government, and what different ways it could be provided to allow for different requirements and wishes. And then to have a thought as to what enjoyable extras can be added FTTT to give a lift and pleasure.

            • Rosemary McDonald 15.3.2.1.1.1
              10 April 2019 at 1:09 pm

              “…at least one of them I have been critical of government allowing ACC to behave as they do.”

              See, you’re not reading properly.

              It is not ACC I am complaining about, it is the disparities between the generous and rights based ACC and MOH, and the successive governments who have enabled and nurtured this disparity.

              There has been endless consultation which many of us have participated in but no government seems willing to actually listen and act.

              • One Two …
                10 April 2019 at 1:33 pm

                It’s a piss poor indictment on those who have such dismissive and demeaning views to write about those groups, for whom people such as yourself have written extensively about on this blog…

                That those people don’t even bother to read lwt alone understand the material or the commentary of those who have lived with the system and its discriminatory practices…

                And state that those discriminated against groups are selfish and insular……because…because….but…but….my story is more important and must be first priority…

                Gw does acknowledge and comments regularly on the failings of various departments et al…

                Yet can still have such warped and twisted views on the concerns of vulnerable groups…

                Unbelievable…

    • ianmac 15.4
      10 April 2019 at 8:51 am

      To consider the Bill in the abstract, changes when you come face to face with the reality of a terminally ill friend or relation. My terminally ill friend shot himself. A bloody way to go and a traumatic effect on his family.
      He deserved to have a dignified way out.
      But Maggie Barrie by twisting facts and scaremongering from a predetermined anti position, is no help at all.
      Surely NZ is ready for enlightenment?

      • Rosemary McDonald 15.4.1
        10 April 2019 at 10:20 am

        No ianmac….NZ is not ready for legislation like this until all New Zealanders a have equal rights and entitlements.

        It really concerns me that those who claim to be ‘Left’ seem to be unable to acknowledge the state enabled vulnerabilities of those who are discriminated against by the state should this legislation be passed without first rectifying those disparities that put people at risk.

      • One Two 15.4.2
        10 April 2019 at 10:28 am

        No, Ian..

        NZ is far far away from ‘enlightenment’…so far that use of the word is misplaced…

        As for the sad outcome for your friend…and it is terribly sad…but it is not unique…nor should such stories become the singular basis for peoples opinions…

        But that is what people do…they tend to look only through a narrow lens of their own emotions and experience…without considering wider ramifications..

        Too hard basket for too many…

        Which is the polar opposite of enlightenment…

      • greywarshark 15.4.3
        10 April 2019 at 10:39 am

        ianmac
        Thanks for that. Maybe a few of the people who still have thinking and brain processing powers in NZ will be able to get an overview of all this. The trouble is everybody wants to put off making decisions and preparing to die themselves and want everything difficult to be rectified for them before anyone else can be considered, I, we are the most entitled here they cry. Any one else’s needs are left till after they have gone to heaven. But also they put off death as long as possible.

        I think along the lines that Terry Pratchett introduced in his Discworld novels with DEATH as a servant of the Gods with whom there was no argument, Just about all characters who died tried to argue with him when he came to take them to their final place of the soul. He even went against the Gods in one case and was sacked but everything fell apart then and he was reinstated. Terry himself was tested by his own fate of a form of alzheimers and came out of the fray as a noble battler for others.

        To paraphrase from the Cabaret song “When I go I’m going like Terry”. We should be trying to live fully doing stuff until we can’t and then can choose to die if we want. How many people take being alive as seriously as in these words from Cabaret. Being together in friendship and co-operative positive action enjoying laughter, shared events and knowing what life is as best we can as decent human beings, until our time for death comes. Then like France’s idol Edith Piaf – ‘Non, je ne regrette rien’. Those are lines to raise us up, higher than the mundane life we often settle for ourselves. I’ve a way to go yet to achieve that, but if I try and keep staunch I’ll get there.
        Cabaret:

        I think of Elsie to this very day
        I remember how she’d turn to me and say
        “What good is sitting all alone in your room?
        Come hear the music play
        Life is a cabaret, old chum
        Come to the Cabaret!”

        And as for me, and as for me
        I made my mind up back in Chelsea
        When I go
        I’m going like Elsie

        Start by admitting from cradle to tomb
        It isn’t that long a stay
        Life is a cabaret, old chum
        It’s only a cabaret, old chum
        And I love a cabaret
        https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/riverdalecast/cabaret.html

        • Rosemary McDonald 15.4.3.1
          10 April 2019 at 1:13 pm

          “….and want everything difficult to be rectified for them before anyone else can be considered, I, we are the most entitled here they cry. Any one else’s needs are left till after they have gone to heaven. But also they put off death as long as possible.”

          Seriously Greywarshark…I give up on you.

          That is a disgusting comment to make….you should be ashamed.

          But then again, shame would require you to have insight…which you clearly lack.

  18. Eco Maori 18
    10 April 2019 at 10:41 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
    https://youtu.be/mOFvJVroAJE

  19. eco maori 19
    10 April 2019 at 12:08 pm

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute
    https://youtu.be/__1GvhLTEcc
    This is to the unjustified system they cheat they can not get me on there trumped up charges they use anything that the state can plant on you

  20. eco maori 20
    10 April 2019 at 12:11 pm

    P.S they blocked my phone from the site they think I going to post about the shit they heaped on Eco Maori this morning while I was carrying out my duties for my mokopuna right outside their SCHOOL

  21. eco maori 21
    10 April 2019 at 1:58 pm

    Here you go Whanau someone who runs a organization based on pleasing the leaders every whim is doom to fail trump is running the USA government to serve himself first and foremost I have seen this before what a big mess that turned out to be

    The stretch also has revealed that a president who has routinely blamed spiking immigration numbers on others – past presidents, congressional Democrats, Mexican authorities, federal judges, human smugglers – is now coming to the realisation that the problems are closer to home. Though his aides have taken the fall, and it is unlikely that Trump will blame himself, the president is facing an existential political crisis ahead of his 2020 re-election bid over the prospect of failure on his top domestic priority.

    “He was politically grandstanding for his base, for his re-election, and not thinking through a plan,” said Domingo Garcia, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, who has met with White House senior adviser and the president’s son-in-law Jared Kushner to discuss immigration reform.

    “He has no plan except to talk about immigration as a political pinata to score points with the far right. But illegal immigration has increased in the two years he has been president.”

    At the White House on Tuesday, Trump reiterated his criticism of Democrats, who have rejected his legislative proposals to speed up deportations and build a border wall, and the federal courts, which have blocked some of his administration’s most aggressive actions. This week Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/111931469/inside-the-latest-purge-by-donald-trump-amid-white-house-panic-over-illegal-immigration

  22. eco maori 22
    10 April 2019 at 2:44 pm

    I agree with Paul totally Climate Change is causing massive forced MIGRATION but some are a bit dim witted to figure that out
    Media outlets and politicians routinely refer to the “flood” of Central American migrants, the “wave” of asylum seekers, the “deluge” of children, despite the fact that unauthorized migration across the US borders is at record lows in recent years. Comparing human beings to natural disasters is both lazy and dehumanizing, but perhaps this tendency to lean on environmental language when describing migration is an unconscious acknowledgement of a deeper truth: much migration from Central America and, for that matter, around the world, is fueled by climate change.

    The natural world can help save us from climate catastrophe

    Yes, today’s Central American migrants – most of them asylum seekers fearing for their lives – are fleeing gangs, deep economic instability (if not abject poverty), and either neglect or outright persecution at the hands of their government. But these things are all complicated and further compounded by the fact that the northern triangle of Central America – a region comprising Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras, and the largest sources of asylum seekers crossing our border in recent years – is deeply affected by environmental degradation and the impacts of a changing global climate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/06/us-mexico-immigration-climate-change-migration

  23. Eco Maori 23
    10 April 2019 at 3:09 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/ktvTqknDobU

  24. Eco Maori 24
    10 April 2019 at 5:10 pm

    The neighbours will have seen the sandflys swarming around the whare

    https://youtu.be/IuwxZSIS__4

  25. Eco Maori 25
    10 April 2019 at 6:40 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.
    Looks like the system is keeping the image up Winston.
    I have a old m8 who has cancer he’s spending big money to keep himself going Kia kaha bro.
    I can remember when Ruapahue exploded in the late 1990s I was fishing out of Hawkesbay it was a awesome sight.
    smith riseing you head out of the sand sniffing a top posse in the ational party NAR you ain’t got it ex environment minster who denied climate change go figure using the the bad stats as a tool to try and float your toilet your government made the MESS.
    Yes all tamariki should be vaccinationed we have the science research that proves the fact that vaccination tamariki is good for all tamariki the anti vaccination people should be hit with a huge fine or jail they are using proper gander and putting OUR Mokopuna lives at risk.
    That looked like a big mess in Melbourne with that crane tipping over it good know one died in the accident.
    Tipcal a top brass never admits imperfections but your human.
    The pond in Tokoroa smells quite bad now I think that would have to be investigated.
    Ka kite ano

  26. Eco Maori 26
    11 April 2019 at 8:39 am

    Kia ora The AM Show
    I say Jessica backing the photo on Wahine not being photo shopped is good it good for Wahine Wairua.
    We could fund more drugs on the one breath one is bashing capital gains Tax next minute got the tissues out crying for more funding for cancer DRUGS.
    The government needs the funds to pay for the drugs so in reality we need a CAPITAL GAINS TAX. If the pharmac inquiry is just a push by the big drug companies to get pharmac to buy more of their expensive drugs well I Back the government for blocking the inquiry.
    I have not pulled a sicky I was told to go home because I was sick. I have had heaps of employees pull sickys days off on ME.
    I agree with wall stick with the prosesse that Pharmac was modeled on looks like ational
    Broke the rules once again I’m guessing making skin cancer drugs available for there m8s.ka kite ano

  27. Eco Maori 27
    11 April 2019 at 10:01 am

    Whanau we can not let the oil barrons distracted US from REALITY The most important subject is human caused Global Climate change sea level rising this will cause billions of tamariki /children to suffer and die THAT’S THE FACTs.
    The Geography, Environment and Earth Sciences professor said people were right to worry about the world’s future because the rate of climate change was accelerating
    Some say it’s getting to a point now where it’s almost too late. However, we don’t need to exaggerate the facts, Renwick said.

    The effects were something humanity had never faced, so it was hard for people to comprehend Ka kite ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/111922908/climate-change-accelerating-but-people-can-help-change-a-world-crisis-scientist-says

    https://youtu.be/mDA0P6ZC1cE

  28. Eco Maori 28
    11 April 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/FM7MFYoylVs

    • vto 28.1
      11 April 2019 at 1:47 pm

      eco maori, how come all your posts are on ‘open mike’s from days previous? Why don’t you post to the current day? Time-machine?

  29. Eco Maori 29
    11 April 2019 at 2:07 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/4ht80uzIhNs

    I made a challenge to the nz unjustified system yesterday Eco Maori see the big picture I will never back down from my CAUSEs indigenous tangata rights environment protecting Papatuanukue beautiful CREATURES OUR Mokopuna futures my cause is bigger than me if anyone trys their dirty tricks on ECO Maori they will be in a hole heap of SHIT THAT’S A FACT

  30. Eco Maori 30
    11 April 2019 at 4:36 pm

    Eco Maori Champions Wahine Equality to as men have made a big mess of OUR WORLD there is a need for ballance of power between men and Wahine
    Women have been fighting for equal rights for generations, for the right to vote, the right to control our bodies and the right to equality in the workplace. And these battles have been hard fought, but we still have a long way to go, and our victories are under threat. Equality in the workplace — women in a range of fields from domestic work to the entertainment industry can tell you — it’s still just a dream
    January 2017 marked a new moment for women as millions gathered around the country and the world, and launched our Web 2.0 of the women’s movement. We knew President Trump’s administration wasn’t going to listen to us. But we marched to be heard not by the president or a political party, but by one another
    While previous marches focused on specific issues, this time we wanted to raise them all. Years of activism by women organizers leading the Black Lives Matter movement, the Dreamer immigrant youth movement and leaders like Tarana Burke, founder of “Me Too,” created a new foundation for how we understood and made connections between our different experiences with violence and inequality Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.google.com/amp/time.com/5191419/women-leading-fight-equality-sexual-harassment/%3famp=true

    https://youtu.be/Zkb-zg4JCLk

    • greywarshark 30.1
      13 April 2019 at 12:38 pm

      Royalty, half dressed. I would have thought that she would aim at elegant and fully clothed. Why do women not wear clothes like men do, conforming to a certain formality where that is appropriate, and uncovering on the beach or at other recreational areas.

      But with women in the spotlight, it doesn’t matter what season it is, its bare as much as possible, while the men beside them wear clothes covering the body which are agreed as appropriate for the occasion, dinner suits etc. Don’t women want to be included in society really, but to remain separate following their own fleshy, bosomy style? Do they see their role as being attractive works of art on display? Yet they want to be regarded the same as men, to be taken as seriously as men. Are they playing a double game, trying to have their cake and eat it too?

  31. Eco Maori 31
    11 April 2019 at 6:40 pm

    Kia ora Newshub
    Mike I seen the pictures of a black hole it is a phenomenon that controls galaxy’s awesome power.
    It cool that Wairoa race track is still going to be operating.
    Wow the police chase me for nothing right outside my mokos school and they let someone kick stuff outside the christchurch desaster and hule verbal racist abuse and do nothing.????????????????????.
    There you go a shooting club going hard a day after the christchurch desaster that shows their mentally I can not see the meditation club members lieing about the facts it is cool the gun club has been shut.
    scotmo thinks that because he had a small win he could win the election NAR climate change deniers are history.
    Its about time Neno got put in line he has been pliging Tangaroa in Aotearoa for 40 years what about the orange ruffy quoter scandle in the 1990s he has made a mockery of the quoter management SYSTEM the unjustice SYSTEM as well.
    Its cool that our gun laws have changed so halfwit can not carry out atrocities like Christchurch. Ka kite ano