Open mike 09/06/2023

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   9 June 2023 at 6:57 am

   'Horrendous situation': Queenstown council under fire over vacant cabins

   Council PR man Sam White confirms to Mountain Scene that 32 of the 45 cabins on the site are not being used, news that infuriates Queenstown housing advocates who say council needs to get off its backside and pay the money to get the homes up to scratch.

   With the rental housing crisis the worst it’s ever been, the majority of cabins on the Queenstown council-owned Lynch Block site are sitting empty because City Hall hasn’t invested the money to meet healthy home standards.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/horrendous-situation-queenstown-council-under-fire-over-vacant-cabins

   I note the "hasnt invested". IMO this is about money. And not so much about bringing the places up to standard (FFS ! ) …IMO more about the land value . And always has been : (

   32 unused places. When people (workers incl) are living in cars ?!

   I'd say shame on the QLDC..but they dont have any.
   • gsays 1.1

     9 June 2023 at 7:29 am

     Do councils have a pecuniary interests register?

     Maybe there is more than one landlord in their midst.

     If so, shaming will not work,
     • Incognito 1.1.1

       9 June 2023 at 8:36 am

       Yes, of course, and here it is:

       https://www.qldc.govt.nz/your-council/elected-members/register-of-interests

       It is a requirement under the Local Authorities (Members’ Interests) Act 1968 for all elected members to declare any pecuniary (or other specified) interests. Under the Local Government Act 2002 section 54A, a register of these declarations must be publicly available.

       Knock yourself out.
       • gsays 1.1.1.1

         9 June 2023 at 11:56 am

         Thanks incog.

         I will have a geez after a few chores on this gorgeous Manawatu day.
   • Bearded Git 1.2

     9 June 2023 at 9:07 am

     I live in the Queenstown Lakes district and there is no doubt that the Council has been spectacularly useless at addressing the accommodation crisis. No measures at all have been taken to encourage the thousands of empty houses in the district to open up for rental purposes.

     I have a son living in a Queenstown backpacker for $50 a night so that he can get to his job there. Rental accommodation is non-existent.

     But on Checkpoint last night, when answering questions about the 32 empty council-owned cabins, Mayor Lewes went on and on about how valuable the land was where the cabins are situated, which to me sounded like his preference was to sell this land to a developer, rather than spend the money to allow people to live in the 32 cabins.

     With this attitude the accommodation crisis will only get worse.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.2.1

       9 June 2023 at 9:21 am

       Hi BG. Thanks for reply. I did seem to remember you lived in this area. I have sympathy for your Son . And all the other hard pressed. And re the Mayor ? I didnt see it..but that would confirm my thought. Developer money…much more important.

       There is way more light..and heat being applied to this now. By some fucked off people. Who want answers. So….maybe there will be some revealing?

       I hope so.
       • Bearded Git 1.2.1.1

         9 June 2023 at 9:27 am

         We need to elect a solid Labour/Green Council.
         • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.2.1.1.1

           9 June 2023 at 9:39 am

           Im def looking. There are some ? Outnumbered…as always. Sadly, money..and apathy rule. (altho voter apathy maybe not so much..as the cold gets stronger ! )

           This…would be laughable if they weren't serious. Cold as charity? Have a hot shower. Price reduced for now…

           https://www.qldc.govt.nz/2023/may/23-18-05-cheaper-hot-showers-to-help-those-in-need-this-winter
           • Phillip ure 1.2.1.1.1.1

             9 June 2023 at 4:50 pm

             I am homeless/houseless in the waiuku/awhitu peninsula area…

             No hot showers here..

             Interesting that the town with the worst reputation for treating their homeless.. Queenstown…provides hot showers for the homeless/travellers…

             Whereas where I am..under the aegis of the Auckland city council..(who..believe it or not..has a special committee to look after the homeless…but apparently their brief is to only build houses for the homeless…(would like to know how many they have built)…and they are not allowed to actually provide/fund practical help for the homeless..as in ablution blocks/whatever..

             Here there is nothing/zip/nada..and no council plans for that to change in any way for the better..

             And I reckon that both sucks and blows..
         • aj 1.2.1.1.2

           9 June 2023 at 10:17 am

           a solid Labour/Green Council

           It will never happen.
           • roy cartland 1.2.1.1.2.1

             9 June 2023 at 10:54 am

             Whatever it's called, it need to be green and focused on those that actually do the work.
           • Bearded Git 1.2.1.1.2.2

             9 June 2023 at 11:46 am

             There are a surprising number of green/left voters moving into the district….the population in the Queenstown Lakes is both increasing rapidly and is moving away from the old "farmers, developers and their friends" make up to a much more diverse mix. Wanaka may well be bigger than Queenstown in 20 years time especially if the Tarras airport is built, which I think will happen.

             Labour and the Greens did quite well in the 2020 election here.

             People around here are getting really angry about the lack of rental accommodation…..it is an issue in Wanaka as well as Queenstown….it is single issues like this that can focus people on voting for change.
           • Phillip ure 1.2.1.1.2.3

             9 June 2023 at 4:35 pm

             @ aj..

             That's a big call…

             Would like to hear your reasons for saying that..

             As I think that as climate change increasingly smashes into our faces..a labour green party becomes more and more likely..

             And I presume you are a nact supporter..

             National..an ideologically bankrupt party… constantly looking backwards…in this case to the key era..

             And the raving loonies party…act…want nothing less than a far right revolution..and to dance upon the necks of the poor…

             Whereas labour are sorta struggling their way back from neoliberal-incrementalism…to a form of democratic socialism…albeit at a snail's pace…

             And the greens are the greens..the party focusing on what our future will be…and supporting a green revolution…

             Which is what we need..

             So the likelihood of a labour green government in more than just name…is very very high..

             So…your reasons for supporting the bankrupt and the raving loonies are..?
   • Graeme 1.3

     9 June 2023 at 9:33 am

     I've lived in one of those cabins, in the mid 80's. It's exactly the same now as it was then. It was a 1950's crib / bach and wouldn't have been too bad in it's time and in summer (Queenstown was always, and still is primarily a summer resort), but winter at the camping ground was challenging. Frozen toilet in the morning would be the story this morning.

     One of the cabins might have a bit more space but a car would be a lot warmer right now.

     The Motor Camp has been controversial for ever. It goes back to the very start of the town where a bit of land was set aside for 'community purposes', it later became used as a camping ground and various parcels were added to it, becoming a quite large camping ground close to the centre of Queenstown by the 60's. The council leased sites to wealthy Otago and Southland families who built cribs there and generations had their holidays on the site, just like many other camping grounds around the country.

     By 80's / 90's the wealthy families had moved on to having proper holiday houses around town and were keeping their cribs up at the Camping Ground for a bit of rental income and the hope of a fat capital gain from the Council. Eventually Council terminated the leases and the wealthy Otago and Southland families got shafted. In the meantime the Camping Ground had become the home to what's now the Freedom Camper demographic and they got a bit possessive of their prime spot in town.

     Once Council had possession they demolished / removed most of the cribs and the old Camp, redeveloping the Camp part and selling off development rights to a large portion. The resulting development, if it happens, will be for a similar demographic to the 40's cabins, but the 2030 version of those people.

     Now QLDC in lumped with 45 of the better cabins in a discrete part of the old Camping Ground that were built to a slightly better standard. Some have been brought up to current standards, but others are too buggered to be worth fixing. Long term the local Housing Trust would like to get hold of the site and put 150 appartments on it which would be a good thing, they do some good work. Unfortunately it's also a very prime site in town and lot's of other parties want to pay Council very large sums to secure it. So the issue will go on for some time yet, or maybe QLDC might be about to hand the block over to the Housing Trust.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.3.1

       9 June 2023 at 9:48 am

       Hi Graeme. Thanks for very detailed reply and local insight. I also know them well…as I used to do contract work around there years back. Amazing the situation. I truly wonder at it. And I absolutely agree, as you, and BG say…some very big dollars to be made on the QLDC and developer side. Could be that Housing Trust be the best solution?

       Anyway..as I say, theres going to be a lot more exposure on this.
       • Graeme 1.3.1.1

         9 June 2023 at 11:29 am

         The worker accomodation issue has been a thing for a very very long time, and has a lot of complexities and nuances. Before neolibs became a thing all the big employers had staff housing, government, banks, transport, hotels etc, and there was a lot of it. All that was 'rationalised' in the neolib revolution. Now the same employers can't get, or retain, staff because there's nowhere affordable and / or stable for them to live. And yet there's 10x as many houses here as there was in 1984.

         The housing trust is doing a lot of very good work, but they are catering for a huge demand. Add to that the huge number of people who come here for the perceived lifestyle and then can't afford to live here, of are outside the Trust's remit, you have to have a job and there has to be a benefit to the community from getting Trust housing. Evidently they only take on a very small percentage of people who express interest, and then the waiting list is many times their available units.

         We turn over (churn) a huge proportion of our population as well, in 90's it was perceived wisdom that we churned half our population every two years. Probably a bit more stable right now but that could change dramatically if property development went south. People leave for a verity of reasons, cost of living being one, the shallowness of the economy another, and the extreme compeditivness of the place another, there's always someone coming over the hill that will pay more for your house and do your job for less, the place can be brutal.

         It's Whakatipu, the place of strength, that makes you strong. That's why people want to come here and be part of it. Unfortunately that energy takes it's toll on people and isn't appreciation of it isn't universal.

         But it's our home, we have been able to make it work, but those skills make it hard to fit into other communities.
         • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.3.1.1.1

           9 June 2023 at 12:05 pm

           Re the "neolib revolution"…I was working there..doing all kinds. I was living there..when the first Mediterranean Style (aka leaky home) were being thrown up. Thrown literally

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_homes_crisis#Factors

           I did wonder at? And some Tradies were pretty vocal about…..

           But money as always….

           Later I got some not so lovely jobs. One I well remember…groundfloor apartment Kelvin Heights, was smelling real bad. Scumbag developers had dug into a slope…thrown up units using concrete blocks. No…drainage , or sealer on blocks ! etc etc. Water pouring thru blocks. Carpet was nearly growing mushrooms. Tenant understandably pissed off !

           Later….QLDC paying out millions..because of : earlier QLDC. You prob know about the Building Inspections which werent…

           And….short term gain…for very long pain. The neolib way.

           What has been learned from any of this type of thinking ?. Seems a bit of fuck all.

           I hope some get angry and Activated enough….
   • Patricia Bremner 1.4

     9 June 2023 at 9:51 am

     Yes, and that comment, "It would be best to decide next year". (Because the Nacts might be in and we will get the rise in value?) sick isn't it!!!imo
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.4.1

       9 June 2023 at 10:17 am

       Hi Patricia. I am really quite worried for NZ if Nact ever get control. IMO there will be some terrible change and consequence then.

       Please Labour and Green. Fight back. For all our future.
       • Ngungukai 1.4.1.1

         9 June 2023 at 12:55 pm

         They need NZF there for some guidance otherwise no direction.
     • Graeme 1.4.2

       9 June 2023 at 11:33 am

       It's been next year for the last 40 years, and really a lot longer. Not really political on a national scale, but waiting for things to line up locally.
     • Patricia Bremner 1.4.3

       9 June 2023 at 11:46 am

       Yes Phillip, because of that worry I have donated $60 a fortnight. No outings for lunch with the girls 'till we win!!

       We haven't a hope of matching their war chest, but small amounts often and support we can offer puts "Feet on the ground"

       I feel as you do.

       Sure prices are scary, but they are not better in Australia. A friend's daughter has had her rent go from $550 to $750 a week, so landlord greed is there as well. Our son in Queensland was telling me some things have doubled in price, and veg and fruit are scary. Electricity is going up 10 to 24% depending on the plan they are on. Covid fallout.

       There is a concerted effort to show our Government as chaotic.

       A group are researching all possible errors and their media mouth pieces are magnifying and running with the headlines to create an impression. imo

       The "Good News' is being crowded out. We have seen this before in Key's time.

       Seymore has announced he intends to force National to undo Labour's work. OK!!! The stakes are high so we need to support the main idea. Wellbeing of people and place.

       The greed merchants are lining up.imo.

       So come on Labour and Green and Maori Party supporters, believe we are able to change things. It may not be quick, but it is so much better now than in 2015./16.
       • tWiggle 1.4.3.1

         9 June 2023 at 7:21 pm

         Yes, greed merchants indeed, Patricia. No doubt Luxon's little popover to the UK a few months ago fitted in long talks with Serco over private prisons and the debt companies who cream interest off student debt.

         Meanwhile his recent Oz trip was almost certainly to look over the LibNat's privatisation of CentreLink, the disbursment system for pensions and benefits. Plus haggling over the possible cost of a used RoboDebt computer system. And capped by a cosy chat with the earnestly Pentecostal former-PM, Scott Morrison, about how to open government to The Rapture by consolidating Ministries.
         • Patricia Bremner 1.4.3.1.1

           9 June 2023 at 7:36 pm

           Cheers tWiggle. Too right, all plans are to promote profit at any cost. Scary that people might be looking at them seriously?
   • tsmithfield 1.5

     9 June 2023 at 3:28 pm

     This seems quite unforgivable, especially since they would likely be renting the cabis out to people desperately needed there for hospitality etc.
2. gsays 2

   9 June 2023 at 8:35 am

   Agrivoltaics.

   Combining PV solar panels and agriculture. Shade tolerant food plants grown under PV arrays.

   One of the benefits is a reduction of irrigation of up to 50%.

   Here is an interesting 13 minute overview.
   • roy cartland 2.1

     9 June 2023 at 8:56 am

     And as it increases in development, you'll get designs of panels that don't look so ugly and spoil the aesthetic. Quite apart from the tesla roof, there are these:

     Terracotta:

     https://www.dyaqua.it/invisiblesolar/_en/rooftile-invisible-solar-integrated-for-heritage.php

     Glass:

     https://www.popsci.com/turn-your-smartphone-into-solar-panel/
     • Bearded Git 2.1.1

       9 June 2023 at 9:35 am

       Agree Roy and agree with gsays above. Solar is the way to go.

       My experience from Spain, where I travelled recently for 10 weeks in rural areas, was that the solar panels are able to be blended into the landscape. While they still have adverse effects these tend only to be noticeable when you are very close to the panels.

       Solar is rapidly getting cheaper than wind towers too. This the data to 2020:

       "the global weighted-average levelized cost of electricity for newly commissioned utility-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) projects fell by 85% between 2010 and 2020, from $0.381/kWh to $0.057/kWh. Over the same period, costs for onshore wind projects declined by 56%, from $0.089/kWh to $0.039/kWh."

       https://www.powermag.com/the-solar-and-wind-power-cost-value-conundrum/

       If these cost changes are carried forward to 2023 at the same rate the relative costs are (and closing rapidly) :

       Solar 0.042/kWh
       Onshore Wind 0.033/kWh
       • roy cartland 2.1.1.1

         9 June 2023 at 9:41 am

         Yes, (Western) Europe! Where I guess they have more of an attachment to aesthetics than we or the States do. Europe seems to be at the forefront of many of the visually appealing solar panel designs.

         It's similar with wind turbine design – if you want to get the majority on side, don't just go for the cheapest, most utilitarian design, make them appealing; something people want to look at. It's not beyond the scope of creative minds, the Scnadies have been doing it for years.
         • Bearded Git 2.1.1.1.1

           9 June 2023 at 11:30 am

           Wind towers appealing….you've lost me.
           • roy cartland 2.1.1.1.1.1

             9 June 2023 at 11:40 am

             Turbines, not towers. Some of the designs are pretty wiggy, but my point is that with the creativity at our collective disposal we must be able to come up with attractive (or at least not hideous) ones. Funding for the arts has a practical use after all.

             https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2014/05/noiseless-shell-shaped-wind-turbine-for-households-unveiled/

             https://arborwind.com/vertical-axis-wind-turbines/

             https://www.amusingplanet.com/2015/11/the-bahrain-world-trade-center-has.html

             https://reneweconomy.com.au/bladeless-wobbling-wind-turbines-to-begin-tests-in-europe/
             • Bearded Git …

               9 June 2023 at 1:01 pm

               I see now…will check those out…thanks Roy
             • The Chairman …

               10 June 2023 at 7:58 am

               This one looks like it has potential.

               https://youtu.be/l3sSCwi4VJA
       • gsays 2.1.1.2

         9 June 2023 at 2:33 pm

         In respect to solar vs wind, no moving parts for solar.

         I understand the gearboxes in the big turbines on the Tararua ranges are being replaced annually.
         • joe90 2.1.1.2.1

           9 June 2023 at 2:52 pm

           PV panels have their issues.

           Solar power is booming. Global photovoltaic capacity grew from 1.4 GW in 2000 to 760 GW in 2020, and solar power now generates almost 4% of the world’s electricity, according to the International Energy Agency. But experts say this astonishing growth in low-carbon power is also a ticking time bomb.

           More than 90% of photovoltaic (PV) panels rely on crystalline silicon and have a life span of about 30 years. Forecasts suggest that 8 million metric tons (t) of these panels will have reached the end of their working lives by 2030, a tally that is projected to reach 80 million t by 2050 (Nat. Energy 2020, DOI: 10.1038/s41560-020-0645-2). But today’s technologies for recycling these units are inefficient and rarely deployed.

           That is an enormous problem. PV panels contain toxic materials, like lead, that can cause environmental pollution, yet many are dumped in landfills when they die. They also contain valuable materials that could be reused to make new solar cells, but today these resources are mostly wasted.

           https://cen.acs.org/environment/recycling/Solar-panels-face-recycling-challenge-photovoltaic-waste/100/i18
           • Bearded Git 2.1.1.2.1.1

             9 June 2023 at 3:07 pm

             Yes Joe90, there are always problems, but as the article you reference says:

             "Researchers are now racing to develop chemical technologies that can help dismantle solar cells and strip away the valuable metals within. Others are reprocessing the cells’ silicon wafers so that they can be turned into fresh batches of solar-grade silicon. Several European projects aim to make these kinds of processes commercially viable in the next few years."
             “In the EU, legislation requires PV manufacturers to recycle waste panels and recover at least 80% of their mass, an effort largely organized through an industry consortium called PV Cycle. In 2018, French waste management company Veolia opened a dedicated PV recycling facility to process this waste, recovering bulk materials and low-grade silicon.”

             I find it hard to believe that the volume of material being generated from end-of-life solar panels is significant in comparison with the overall waste being produced from all manufacturing and industry.

             I also doubt that the gearboxes that are being replaced annually in the Tararua ranges wind-turbines are being recycled.
           • gsays 2.1.1.2.1.2

             9 June 2023 at 5:34 pm

             Be wary of perfection being the enemy of good.
           • joe90 2.1.1.2.1.3

             9 June 2023 at 7:34 pm

             Apples with apples.

             Globally, the mass of all the blades expected to be retired by 2050 may be as high as 43 million t, according to a study led by Barlow (Waste Manage. 2017, DOI:

             https://archive.li/AUfgj#selection-2733.3-2737.12
             • Bearded Git …

               10 June 2023 at 11:05 am

               This 43 million tonnes of wind tower blades to be retired is amazing given that one of the key characteristics of the blades is that they are very light
               • joe90 …

                 10 June 2023 at 12:45 pm

                 Reinforcing fibres and composites make up 70% of their mass so >55m blades are weighing in at >twelve tonnes and newer >120m blades are pushing >26 tonnes each.

                 Light they ain't and there's three to a rotor.
                 • Bearded Git …

                   10 June 2023 at 3:35 pm

                   Ok joe90 that is open to debate:

                   “The blades of the wind turbine are far more efficient when they are light in weight…. Lightweight blades make it easier to assemble and disassemble the wind turbine structure and allow the blades to turn more smoothly and efficiently, enhancing their performance."

                   "There are several disadvantages of heavier wind turbine blades, one being they are substantial pieces of mechanical materials and can have lengths of up to 180 feet. This, coupled with the fact that the entire wind turbine structure can reach over 460 feet, can make them rather unsightly…..Wind turbine blades that are heavy in structure and weight are more expensive to manufacture and assemble."

                   https://altenergyoptions.com/should-wind-turbine-blades-be-heavy-or-light/
         • Bearded Git 2.1.1.2.2

           9 June 2023 at 2:58 pm

           That would make sense, and be very expensive. The true costs of windpower may only now be coming home to roost.
           • gsays 2.1.1.2.2.1

             9 June 2023 at 5:42 pm

             Don't mention the concrete.

             "The pads are 16m wide octagonal shape with depths varying from 2.55m at the centre to 1.5m at the edges. Each pad contained 375m3 of 30MPa concrete and 28 tonne of reinforcing steel."

             Warning this is a pdf link. interesting all the same.

             https://cdn.ymaws.com/concretenz.org.nz/resource/resmgr/docs/conf/2006/s5_p3_davey_green.pdf
             • Foreign waka …

               9 June 2023 at 6:33 pm

               There are lots of discussions in Europe about of loss of arable land due to the concrete islands of these turbines. Also, the blades are changed and yes, you guessed it, the "old' ones are just left on the ground as no one wants to deal with them. There is not much talk about it but under those turbines one can find quite a number of birds being victim of those blades. I doubt that the situation is any better in NZ. I feel that, before embarking on those "green" solutions, perhaps legislation has to force those propagating and selling the product to make it a true green solution including waste, environmental impact, food security, water contamination etc.
               • Incognito …

                 9 June 2023 at 6:58 pm

                 I’m sure that you’re correct but I wish you had supported your assertions with some evidence.

                 Here are 2 articles to sharpen the mind with:

                 Mortality limits used in wind energy impact assessment underestimate impacts of wind farms on bird populations (https://doi.org/10.1002/ece3.6360).

                 Paint it black: Efficacy of increased wind turbine rotor blade visibility to reduce avian fatalities (https://doi.org/10.1002/ece3.6592).
     • gsays 2.1.2

       9 June 2023 at 2:43 pm

       Those terracotta units are handsome.

       I don't mind the asthetics of solar arrays, nor wind turbines TBH. I have friends that live downwind of Trustpower and Merdidian's farms in Ballance. Sounds like you are at the ocean with the constant gentle roar.
     • Bearded Git 2.1.3

       10 June 2023 at 10:54 am

       Those terracotta solar tiles are amazing…missed that yesterday sorry.
3. tWiggle 3

   9 June 2023 at 8:43 am

   20 min cities conspiracy theories: at a Residents Association near you

   Have a read of how events unfolded in Fairfield. Hamilton deputy mayor talked to a meeting stacked with local and national conspiracy nutters on what the 20 min city concept is in practice.

   Things took a quick turn from the rational in a hurry. One step further along the lunacy spectrum hitting politics. It may seem silly, but I find it very worrying. Social media misinformation has hijacked many NZers to the point of craziness.
   • ianmac 3.1

     9 June 2023 at 9:52 am

     Wonder if the hard time being experienced by the Wellington Mayor is fed by conspiracy nutters. If you can't get elected then destroy democratic meetings?
     • Patricia Bremner 3.1.1

       9 June 2023 at 11:55 am

       Yes ianmac, Our son in Hamilton says they try to disrupt all the time, and the dirt bike riders in the city try to provoke the law to cover for other crime. The use of Police Helicopters are having some success at linking people places and incidents.
   • roy cartland 3.2

     9 June 2023 at 9:53 am

     Care to summarise? That link is quite a lot to wade thru.
     • aj 3.2.1

       9 June 2023 at 10:22 am

       Twiggle 8:43: – One step further along the lunacy spectrum hitting politics.

       Mayor’s comments on media funding labelled ignorant.

       https://www.southlandexpress.co.nz/news/mayors-comments-on-media-funding-labelled-ignorant/

       I told everyone that Invercargill was electing a mini – Brown

       PS, Just noticed that story is not totally available for free, but you get the picture. Media is being paid by Govt to support the Govt (with reference to the Public Interest Journalism Fund)
       And with a selfish attitude to 3 Waters and racism.
       Comments made during a recent New Zealand Taxpayers Union “Hands Off Our Homes” meeting, so unsurprising
       • tWiggle 3.2.1.1

         9 June 2023 at 12:34 pm

         https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/otago-daily-times/20230608/281513640549698

         aj, the link has an article referring to yours.

         To be fair, I think that Nobby Clark does at least have extensive council experience in Invercargill. From reading about the running saga of the ousting of Bullshit and Jellybeans mayor Shadbolt, I got the impression Clark was de facto mayor in recent years.
     • tWiggle 3.2.2

       9 June 2023 at 12:14 pm

       The link is to just the first post at that Facebook site.
   • LawfulN 3.3

     9 June 2023 at 11:12 am

     This is what happens when your culture refuses to treat ignorance as a moral failing.
   • The Chairman 3.4

     10 June 2023 at 8:34 am

     Social media misinformation has hijacked many NZers to the point of craziness.

     What was the misinformation?
4. Stephen D 4

   9 June 2023 at 11:18 am

   If this is right, and plenty of farmers defect to ACT, what’s National good for?

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/132266877/federated-farmers-releases-political-wishlist-for-this-years-election

   Should their % of the vote drop below the low 30s, are they viable as an alternative government?
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.1

     9 June 2023 at 11:27 am

     I have previously linked this…

     Federated Farmers' president steps down to contest election as ACT's Rangitīkei candidate

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/489565/federated-farmers-president-steps-down-to-contest-election-as-act-s-rangitikei-candidate

     The Fed Farm union wasn't quite militant/political enough for him ?!

     IMO Act are going for…well I wont say gold… more a dairyshit brown. (incl added extra Climate denial) .

     NZ will be fucked if Nact pull it off…..
   • Cricklewood 4.2

     9 June 2023 at 12:48 pm

     Absolutly, if Act become the permant home for say the 15-20 percent of the right it allows the Nats to move closer to the centre and only needing to find 30-35 to be in govt. A lack of viable coalition partners has been the Nats accillies heal in an mmp enviroment.

     You can be certain that money/power brokers on the right will be quite happy with how things are playing out.
     • Stephen 4.2.1

       9 June 2023 at 3:15 pm

       Not sure about that high for Act. I can see 10-15. But I can’t see Nats getting much more than 30. Not with Luxon dragging them down.
5. tWiggle 5

   9 June 2023 at 12:25 pm

   I wonder at the political depth available to a Nat or NACT government once elected. There is very little rollover of MPs with ministerial experience, not to mention Luxon's failings. A new government will be a government at sea.

   I worry not only for NZ's internal public life, but because the world situation will require strong expert leadership for NZ in the next decade. I think Ardern's step down was also because she understands the global challenges ahead of humanity.
6. scotty 6

   9 June 2023 at 12:50 pm

   Interesting article from Bernard Hickey re Mayor Brown

   https://open.substack.com/pub/thekaka/p/dawn-chorus-finally-the-rainy-day?r=awkty&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

   For anyone interested link to live stream of today's Auckland Council meeting resumes at 1.00pm

   https://councillive.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/
7. Ad 7

   9 June 2023 at 12:58 pm

   Hang in there Donald Trump.

   You're the only way the Democrats are going to get back into the White House next year.

   https://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-president-trump-says-has-been-indicted

   Indicted, or guilty, or in jail, just keep going.
8. Michael P 8

   9 June 2023 at 1:01 pm

   I know politics is super important.. (ahem…) but this is potentially the biggest news story in the history of humankind… and not a squeak out of the mainstream media.

   3 part article with Background and fact checking..
   https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/

   Need to know.. more to come..

   [You already have an approved e-mail address here. Use this if you want your comments to appear here – Incognito]
   • Incognito 8.1

     9 June 2023 at 1:28 pm

     Mod note
   • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2

     9 June 2023 at 2:43 pm

     Alas, alien magicians won't fix our self-made problems on spaceship Earth – we're just not sufficiently exceptional to be worth the bother. And, if they're polluting Earth's biosphere with their faulty UFOs, why should we think they could help us anyway?

     Only humans might save their global civilisation – emphasis on might.

     Climate change: How is my country doing on tackling it?

     Every year countries pledge to cut their greenhouse gas emissions in an effort to curb the impacts of climate change.

     But still global temperatures keep rising.

     So which countries are on track with their climate commitments to help stick to 1.5°C and which are not? Find out using the interactive chart below.

     Have a guess – which countries?
   • observer 8.3

     9 June 2023 at 3:37 pm

     If you can't be bothered to provide even a one sentence summary of your topic, I can't be bothered to click on the links.

     Just saying "Hey, Youtube exists" doesn't cut it.
   • SPC 8.4

     9 June 2023 at 9:50 pm

     CIA created CT.

     1947 – off the record to the media, it was a UFO.

     1947 – on the record, there was no UFO

     Strategy – have the media onside, during a war – including a Cold War – there are state secrets such as tech developments that are not part of the public domain. Area 51 meant information at highest security clearance levels (Capitol Hill rules over 50 states and media are banned from some Committee hearings on grounds of security).

     So, claims, without evidence, of having alien stuff – are here a diversion from their growing capability with the tech they do have. Artificial intelligence meets quantum computing and meta verse – and the rest is in sci fi. Chinese social credit and the threat of the rule of the imperial palace of heaven over the US democracy. Psychological warfare in the 21st C – AUKUS levels 1 and 2 and tech development – magic weapons.
9. Visubversa 9

   9 June 2023 at 1:12 pm

   No "women only" spaces anywhere – ever.

   https://reduxx.info/korean-womens-spa-forced-to-erase-biological-women-from-policy-after-trans-identified-male-complaint/?fbclid=IwAR2R0VAF6s5nEEna_WrGYL1P0p8XRgecXBbVX0ZrMfRfYKwlVfHFGj1Q8j4
   • SPC 9.1

     9 June 2023 at 5:31 pm

     This and the case in Oz is why self ID was a mistake. It's the ones who will not transition who are the most obnoxious, the ones with least regard for what women want.

     For mine, human rights bodies and courts should ignore any complaint/action (as to access to womens spaces) by those who those who merely self ID.
     • Nic the NZer 9.1.1

       9 June 2023 at 5:54 pm

       Them's been making a real effort to fit in recently by shaving off the full beard.
   • Nic the NZer 9.2

     9 June 2023 at 5:50 pm

     If the spa's claims to the court are credible then no application was actually lodged to use the spa. Seems to be legal harassment over their policy documentation.
10. Sanctuary 10

    9 June 2023 at 3:20 pm

    Julie Fairey and Richard Hills – what complete centrist sell-outs.
    • Tiger Mountain 10.1

      9 June 2023 at 5:06 pm

      Yep, the Councillors had their feet on Brown’s throat and should have kept them there.

      Lotu and Alf had a good alternative proposal but others vacillated. The Councillors may as well all go surfing now for the remainder of their terms as they have essentially waved the white flag.
      • higherstandard 10.1.1

        9 June 2023 at 5:17 pm

        How is taking on 60M more in debt a 'good proposal' ?

        [Please correct your e-mail address in your next comment, thanks – Incognito]
        • Incognito 10.1.1.1

          9 June 2023 at 5:38 pm

          Mod note
11. adam 11

    9 June 2023 at 3:52 pm

    Bugger the Greedy.

    Making our lives hell.

    Need a laugh ?

    Sensitive baby boom or Y generation types, just scroll past please, the video below will be way to much for you.
12. tWiggle 12

    9 June 2023 at 7:36 pm

    Guardian opinion on cost of living rises in Oz

    Chopper, the OECD and the European Central Bank agree as to the reason for Oz price hikes.

    'Why are the price rises happening? International research conducted by the OECD concluded “corporate profits contributed far more to Australia’s rise in inflation through the past year than from wages and other employee costs”. There’s been similar analysis from the European Central Bank. The Reserve Bank of Australia and Treasury disagree, I guess because the OECD is led by notorious communist Mathias Cormann.'
    • Nic the NZer 12.1

      9 June 2023 at 8:59 pm

      https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=60899

      The argument that interest rate rises by the RBA have been driving rental price increases is starting to be put across in their media.

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