Open mike 09/10/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 9th, 2012 - 114 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

114 comments on “Open mike 09/10/2012 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    9 October 2012 at 6:13 am

    Besides lying and breaking the law, how far will the National Government and our state forces go to please our US ally?

    Will John Key and our military leaders condemn our Afghan interpreters and their families to certain death?

    Will our courts without hearing the evidence against him, condemn Kim Dotcom to prison conditions which may well constitute torture under the UN conventions against torture?

    Just last week Juan Mandez the UN Rapporteur on Torture came out with a statement against the extradition of suspected Islamist terrorists to the US because they will be subjected to a type of incarceration that risks being constituted as torture under the UN conventions against torture.

    US state no longer upholds legal rights: “Violates the law”, lawyer

    At 7:20 on the tape

    ….. the solitary confinement they will be put in, the lack of communication they will be under, their ability to do anything there, may well constitute torture under the UN torture convention.

    “People cannot be sent to the United States because they will be tortured in US custody.”

    Michael Ratner President emeritus of the Centre for Constitutional Rights (CCR) in New York and chair of the European Centre for Constitutional and Human Rights in Berlin.

    Should Dotcom be worried that these conditions will be imposed on him?

    Going by the anti-terror tactics used in his arrest and the secret anti-terror organisations that have been deployed against him. The chances are more than even, that Kim Dotcom will find himself in an underground cell under 23 hour solitary confinement in ADX Florence.

    “A cleaner version of hell”

  2. muzza 2
    9 October 2012 at 7:34 am

    Your right to resell your own stuff is in peril

    CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — Tucked into the U.S. Supreme Court’s busy agenda this fall is a little-known case that could upend your ability to resell everything from your grandmother’s antique furniture to your iPhone 4.

    At issue in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons is the first-sale doctrine in copyright law, which allows you to buy and then sell things like electronics, books, artwork and furniture as well as CDs and DVDs, without getting permission from the copyright holder of those products.

    Under the doctrine, which the Supreme Court has recognized since 1908, you can resell your stuff without worry because the copyright holder only had control over the first sale.

    Interesting….

    • David H 2.1
      9 October 2012 at 10:27 am

      Madness. Pure and simple madness. But what can you expect from the land of the Paranoid and Insane?

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        9 October 2012 at 11:25 am

        Its what PC game makers have been trying to do for years. Kill the second hand market for PC games with copy protection (e.g. limited numbers of licence activations) in order to force people to buy new copies of games at premium prices.

    • aerobubble 2.2
      9 October 2012 at 12:09 pm

      But wait. If we need to recycle more, as the worlds raw material run out, then we need to
      regulate materials better. If, as I believe, producers need to take responsibility for the waste,
      then it follows that ownership in a object isn’t just the holder. This idea then is more in tune with
      our per-industrial forebears, sole ownership of any property was essentially theft.
      The whole idea behind legislation, its preventative effect, requires a invasion not so invisible
      hand into the market place in order to direct the effects of the market towards social goods.
      Away from slavery, serfdom…monopolies, regulatory capture (obviously our current regimes
      are in denial about that particular one).

      Information should be free, ideas should never be patentable (including genes).

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1
        9 October 2012 at 12:19 pm

        Information should be free, ideas should never be patentable (including genes).

        QFT

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      9 October 2012 at 12:17 pm

      The case stems from Supap Kirtsaeng’s college experience. A native of Thailand, Kirtsaeng came to the U.S. in 1997 to study at Cornell University. When he discovered that his textbooks, produced by Wiley, were substantially cheaper to buy in Thailand than they were in Ithaca, N.Y., he rallied his Thai relatives to buy the books and ship them to him in the U.S.

      He then sold them on eBay, making upwards of $1.2 million, according to court documents.

      haha, that’s funny.

      Of course, what we’re actually seeing here is the actions of capitalism to control the market clearly showing that we do not have a free-market. And the reason why we don’t have a free-market is because capitalism would never survive in one.

      BTW, reports are that the TPPA will ban parallel imports.

  3. vto 3
    9 October 2012 at 9:01 am

    Watching Nigel Latta’s Darklands program last night was sad and depressing. It was about the circumstances that led to Nia Glassie’s death at the hands of her family in 2007. It looked at the broken families and the cycle of violence.

    A question occurred to me… When did these broken dyusfunctional families come into existence? I understand how such dysfunctionality can arise and how difficult it is to break, but I don’t understand when this started. Using the Nia Glassie example, she was effectively killed by the Curtis brothers who were raised in an incrediblty violent household, especially from their father Bill Curtis.

    So Bill Curtis must also have been raised in similar circumstances, I assume, following the accepted logic and wisdom around this issue. Bill Curtis looks like he would be a baby boomer, meaning he was born around 1950-60. His parents would therefore probably have been born around 1930-40. Did Bill Curtis’s parents start the cycle? Or was it their parents again?

    What I am trying to ascertain is when this destructive feature arose in these families. Was it in the 1950s? Or was it in the 1930s? Or was it the generation prior to that? Once that is established the next questions would seem to be around what circumstances existed in NZ at that particular time to ignite this destruction..? When and what circumstances?

    • Antonina 3.1
      9 October 2012 at 9:40 am

      Hi vto – my personal theory is that a large number of men came back to NZ from WW2, put everything behind them , married, raised a family, worked hard etc. Many were severely traumatised and the effect on children was sometimes extreme. Just a theory.

    • Enough is Enough 3.2
      9 October 2012 at 9:46 am

      It is a great question VTO and would be a fascinating study.

      I am not sure it is a 20th century problem. Discipline, was mistaken for violence for generations. Society as whole decided to break the cycle of violent discipline in the second half of last century.

      The Curtis family was more violent that most others, but having a father that beat the shit out of his kids for them spilling some milk was not uncommon at all. It was not considered dysfunctional.

      I don’t think it began during any period. I think it ended as a result of the left campaigning against domestic violence.

    • Tiger Mountain 3.3
      9 October 2012 at 9:53 am

      There are studies of this on the net. Once over lightly intro here at Te Ara http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/child-abuse/5

      Essentially child abuse and neglect has always been with us. The ‘idyllic’ 50s and 60s were also a time of widespread ‘stranger’ child adoption, fostered out children and private and state run childrens/teens homes and borstals often with violent cultures. Mental health care was institutionalised with little public scrutiny with elctro shock therapy–ECT and ‘chemical straightjackets’ being worse than some disorders. Priests and others charged with looking after kids were often happily kid fiddling away.

      Corporal punishment was the norm, can you imagine todays school kids being repeatedly whacked with leather straps and canes? Poorer kids were effected more as ever, the government used to run health camps where disadvantaged kids would go for 6 weeks and be properly fed up. Some is family bred, the abused as modern research show often go on to abuse. Spousal assault was viewed by the Police as a domestic until recent times, rape in marriage was not considered possible again until recent times. So New Zealand has definitely a dark sadistic past and some of us maintain it is still there in some with the bennie bashing etc.

      So while today there is more reporting and social work around abuse and public campaigns that have made a difference there is also more of the factors that promote child abuse. It can be about power too, alienated men and women rendered useless by unemployment and poverty lash out at the vulnerable and feel good about themselves for a small while in obviously the most twisted way.

    • David H 3.4
      9 October 2012 at 10:42 am

      Yes I watched it as well, and of being that age myself I’m 57 I noticed the same thing when growing up in England. Alcoholism mixed with PTSD and god knows what other mental problems after WWII and there were NO psychologists and very few Psychiatrists and the favoured form of Torture treatment was the Electro shock therapy where they fried your synapses and screwed with your memory. So of course people kept away from the Doctor and also it’s not the image of a Man in the 50’s&60’s to have mental problems. And of course this attitude has just been handed down from Father to son and it’s a destructive cycle.

      edit:Damn The word Torture should have a strike through, for some reason it didn’t work.

    • Jokerman 3.5
      9 October 2012 at 11:24 am

      Truth in All The Above.
      This can be one dark freakin country unfortunately. It is It is Extremely Necessary and Sufficient that
      We Seek The Light

      🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 3.6
      9 October 2012 at 12:23 pm

      When did these broken dyusfunctional families come into existence?

      IMO, When the nuclear family started to become the norm and extended families and community integration were shut down.

      Was it in the 1950s? Or was it in the 1930s?

      As far as NZ goes, I’ve heard that it was imported from Britain in the 19th century.

    • insider 3.7
      9 October 2012 at 1:09 pm

      Labour was in power so it must be their fault, just like everything happening now is Key’s 🙂

    • vto 3.8
      9 October 2012 at 3:57 pm

      Hmm, all interesting points. There is surely an element of the old school “discipline” hangover from colonists and other immigrants carrying over to the different norms of today. But it is seemingly more prevalent in polynesian families so how would that have transferred to them so viciously? I can understand how it has come about in families of british background but not how it has come about in the others, and when it comes to that when and how did it arise? We are told that it didn’t exist in pre-european maori society yet it exists today – when did that happen? In the generation of Bill Curtis’ parents born around 1930’s? Or the generations prior to that? 1930’s, 1950’s, 1910’s, 1880’s? When did it start? And then, why?

  4. Jokerman 4
    9 October 2012 at 10:36 am

    The Poor
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/08/new-delhi-westminster-cavalier-poor?
    Monbiot on The Poison of Colonisation
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/08/empire-torture-kenya-catastrophe-europe?
    Chavez The Faithful
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/venezuela-election-hugo-chavez?
    Commodus
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/stocks-commodities-weaker-on-world-outlook-20121009-279v8.html?
    The Olive Pit
    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article36907.html?

    For the upright will live in the land,
    and the blameless will remain in it;
    but the wicked will be cut off from the land,
    and the unfaithful will be torn from it.
    -Pr 3:21

    God Bless Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers (“I Should Have Known”)

    • just saying 4.1
      9 October 2012 at 11:35 am

      Thanks Jokerman.
      The Manibot link was particularly powerful, and is very pertinent to the discussion at 3, above.

  5. Tim 5
    9 October 2012 at 10:49 am

    Muff McGillicuddy to visit Malaysia, Indonesia

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1210/S00137/mccully-to-visit-malaysia-indonesia.htm
    What do you reckon might be on his agenda?

    How to help bail out Australia with its refugee “problem” perhaps? ….and of course at the same time find a way of legitimising recent POINTLESS NZ legislation to do with those countless waves of “boat people/queue jumpers/illegals” we supposedly going to get.

  6. ianmac 6
    9 October 2012 at 10:50 am

    Nearly missed this from yesterday. Hope Draco doesn’t mind but it seems important to me:

    Draco T Bastard 26
    9 October 2012 at 12:01 am

    “Spin me a brain exchange”, said Dear Leader!

    I offer this salient piece of advice to Dear Leader and the National Party; if we expect commitment from New Zealanders – then, as a nation, we must show commitment to our young folk, and to each other.

    That involves old fashioned concepts and values such as pride in our country. Not just our flag or rugby team or latest successful movie by Peter Jackson – but pride in a nation that invests in each citizen with universal, free education; food in schools programmes; decent housing; comprehensive free healthcare for our young people; fair wages sufficient to raise a family on; everyone paying their taxes (no exceptions for capital gains, sorry), and ensuring that no one is left behind.

    A simple clear statement of aspiration which would suit many, -I reckon.

  7. karol 7
    9 October 2012 at 11:01 am

    In the last hour, Winston Peters has issued a press release saying he has evidence that the PM’s office knew about Dotcom earlier than previously stated.  Key claims his staff didn’t pass the information on to him?

    The Prime Minister confirmed in reply to a written question from New Zealand First that his office knew about Dotcom in July last year.

    “In July 2011 one of my staff was advised by Hon Simon Power’s office by phone that Hon Power was declining an OIO [Overseas Investment Office] application from Kim Dotcom.

    “This information was not conveyed to me as it was routine,” Mr Key said in his written reply.

     
     
     

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      9 October 2012 at 11:10 am

      Simple question:

      “Does the PM hold any concerns that he has been kept isolated from other important information by his staff?”

    • Anne 7.2
      9 October 2012 at 11:12 am

      “Mr Key’s involvement in the whole fiasco stinks like a sweaty Hobbit’s armpit in summer,” says Mr Peters.

      Love it.

      • marty mars 7.2.1
        9 October 2012 at 6:09 pm

        Just listened to the news and it was all bad for key, real bad – Winston ripping key. I’m starting to believe that he might go down for this.

        • karol 7.2.1.1
          9 October 2012 at 6:17 pm

          It’s the headline story on TV3 6pm news, and Garner reckons it’s not good news for Key.
          TV One News haven’t included it in it’s headline summary.  It’s leading with the cuts to youth wage.
          I’ve taken to recording the 6pm news on My freeview so I can switch between them, and stop and start – flick through the ads.

    • Treetop 7.3
      9 October 2012 at 7:43 pm

      I would like to know what documentation Dotcom has got from Power in regard to OIO if any and what the documentation from OIO is to Power and Dotcom. As well if Key signed anything to do with the OIO regarding Dotcom.

    • Poission 7.4
      9 October 2012 at 8:34 pm

      Different story to what he said in Parliament,where he now has to make a personal statement.Which which will be the third statement ( 3 strikes).Winston if framed correctly can now call him a liar in parliament thanks to Lockwood’s ruling.

  8. Anne 8
    9 October 2012 at 11:26 am

    Seriously:

    ”Why would Mr Power relay the information to the Prime Minister’s office if it wasn’t for the consumption of the Prime Minister?”

    There’s a pattern developing here and its been going on for a long time.

    No-one tells John Key anything to do with Kim Dotcom! Could an instruction have been issued along the lines:

    If its to do with that Dotcom guy, I don’t want to know?

    • ianmac 8.1
      9 October 2012 at 11:59 am

      Of course the Right Honourable Prime Minister John Key (Knighthood Pending), would be constantly thinking of high level Philosophical Aspirations for his Gated Planet Key, and therefore the trivial matters like Growing Unemployment, National Security Mega-upload, and unobtrusive constituents such as Kim Dotcom would not dare to be referred to him.
      Beggars belief John Key. Either Dishonest, or Incompetent. Choose one.

      • Anne 8.1.1
        9 October 2012 at 12:58 pm

        Dishonest

        • Jackal 8.1.1.1
          9 October 2012 at 3:19 pm

          It’s called Plausible Deniability, a term first coined by the CIA. What Key and the GCSB are doing is taken directly out of their handbook:

          In politics and espionage, deniability refers to the ability of a “powerful player” or intelligence agency to avoid “blowback” by secretly arranging for an action to be taken on their behalf by a third party ostensibly unconnected with the major player.

          • ianmac 8.1.1.1.1
            9 October 2012 at 8:27 pm

            Yes. I can imagine Powers phone clerk in PM’s office. The clerk tells a special person. The special person tells Key in a lift or somewhere private. Key nods and says “I did not hear what you just said. Get it?”
            The trouble with that is that the clerk knows Key knows.

            • gobsmacked 8.1.1.1.1.1
              9 October 2012 at 8:52 pm

              If the staffer was Phil de Joux (as rumoured) then he would know not to tell Key.

              Plausible deniability is more than just “I didn’t hear”, it’s having staff who know the drill in the first place. Those who have worked with Brand Key since he was in opposition (as de Joux has) would know automatically that protecting the Brand is paramount.

              • Colonial Viper …
                9 October 2012 at 9:18 pm

                Now it begins to work against Key however, as it looks like what it is: a pattern of deliberate ignorance brought about by a strategy of active avoidance.

                • McFlock …
                  9 October 2012 at 9:29 pm

                  there’s a reason one-trick ponies are not regarded highly. 
                  Oh, I’ll grant them it was a good trick for a couple of elections, but they need to pull finger and find something else doubleplus fast. 

                • marty mars …
                  9 October 2012 at 11:55 pm

                  I agree – active avoidance + deliberate ignorance = shifty. And once that sticks down he goes.

    • Lanthanide 8.2
      9 October 2012 at 12:06 pm

      “No-one tells John Key anything to do with Kim Dotcom! Could an instruction have been issued along the lines:

      If its to do with that Dotcom guy, I don’t want to know?”

      I’ve been thinking this for a while.

      Key is very adamant he’d never heard of Dotcom before the raid. So I think there won’t be any evidence to contradict this claim, because he’ll have made sure there isn’t.

    • insider 8.3
      9 October 2012 at 1:14 pm

      Why. So that his office can decide if he needs to know. They are all paranoid gatekeepers of information. Same thing happened under Clark. Just cos Heather Simpson knew about things didn’t mean HC did.

      • mickysavage 8.3.1
        9 October 2012 at 1:32 pm

        BS on that insider.

        Helen Clark had this amazing really scary ability to know what was happening around her.  She knew most ministers’ portfolios better than they did.

        Key is the opposite.  It seems that all sorts of carnage can happen around him and he has no idea, and he never sees it coming.

        To compare him to Clark is to compare chalk and cheese. 

        • insider 8.3.1.1
          9 October 2012 at 1:44 pm

          Mickey I was comparing processes not people. I don’t think anyone would disagree that Clark was a micro manager and is a once in a generation event. but even she did not know everything her office knew at all times. Flunkies filter. That’s their job.

          • gobsmacked 8.3.1.1.1
            9 October 2012 at 2:09 pm

            Flunkies filter. That’s their job.

            Perhaps. But once your boss is telling the country that he had never heard of Dotcom before the raid, then it’s certainly the flunky’s job to tell the boss: “Excuse me Sir, the office knew” – so the PM can stop giving hostages to fortune.

            Unless, of course, the flunky has been told (directly or not) that such information should not be passed on, even after the fact.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.1.2
            9 October 2012 at 4:19 pm

            I don’t think anyone would disagree that Clark was a micro manager and is a once in a generation event.

            May have been a once in a generation event (I doubt it though as far too many people don’t get to sit in the spotlight to be able to tell) but I don’t think she was a micro-manager – she didn’t move into managing someone else’s responsibility unless that someone else fucked up. Just a manager that knew what she should have known.

            Flunkies filter. That’s their job.

            They filter it down to bite size pieces – they do not keep it from the person they work for.

            • insider 8.3.1.1.2.1
              9 October 2012 at 4:37 pm

              No they also filter out stuff that they don’t consider important or relevant, and timing and context are important criteria in those decisions. You’re saying the boss gets to hear about absolutely everything the minions know, just in précis. Organisations don’t work that way, because i suspect we all know that huge amounts of information gets passed on between individuals for a range of reasons, but not all of it is useful. Can you say that every single email you’ve received this week contained something relevant to you?

              • gobsmacked …
                9 October 2012 at 5:53 pm

                No, but I can say that if my boss ever goes on TV and says he’s never heard of somebody, and I had previously had a phone call from a senior colleague about that somebody, then I would make damn sure I told my boss about it after he’d gone on telly. To save his blushes, or mine.

                So … Did Key’s office tell him AFTER Dotcom became NZ’s Number One news story?. There is a gap of eight months between then and now – during which Key has said nothing about it … until today. Until he was forced to.

                Your “hear about absolutely everything” line is classic evasion by hyperbole. It’s THE thing for Key, and has been since February. Why has he wanted not to know – or say?

              • mickysavage …
                9 October 2012 at 6:05 pm

                If they thought that the Dotcom stuff was immaterial and Key did not have to know about it then it is difficult to know what he would have to know about.

                Is that what you really mean insider? 

                • insider …
                  9 October 2012 at 6:25 pm

                  I’ve called ministers offices plenty of times and passed on info I’ve had no expectation of them hearing at the time. I’m briefing the officials just in case something related comes up and they can use it if they see fit. In July 2011 kdc probably was irrelevant to the pm. I don’t disagree that since January something should have been said by one of his officials somewhere.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                9 October 2012 at 6:35 pm

                No they also filter out stuff that they don’t consider important or relevant, and timing and context are important criteria in those decisions.

                Generally speaking, if it’s reaching the office of the PM then, at a guess, I’d say it was important enough for him to know about. He doesn’t need to know all the details but he does need to know about it. Sure, there’d be some that gets passed on to other ministers (wrong address) but stuff about intelligence operations would go to him.

                • insider …
                  9 October 2012 at 6:52 pm

                  There’s some confusion here- it was not an intelligence issue when either peters asked his question or powers office contacted keys. Your guess i think is wrong. Officials give each other heads ups all the time, just like peers in many organisations. That doesn’t mean the info is intended for the boss.

                  • Anne …
                    9 October 2012 at 7:13 pm

                    Bollocks insider. You’re not fooling anyone except yourself. When Simon Power contacted the PM’s office he was giving the PM a heads up on where things were at with Dotcom. That means he was given the information by a member of his staff.

                    John Key and his staff are indulging in “plausible deniability”. See Jackal @ 8.1.1.1

                    I wonder if the staff member was Captain Panic Pants?

                    • BloodyOrphan …
                      9 October 2012 at 7:38 pm

                      Awesome idea Anne ….

                      They could have a the “Panic Pants Suit” on the wall for the next “Not John Key” meeting.
                      That way he’ll never forget 🙂
                      Diapers on the outside maybe M8!
                      The “Protocol” Grows M8!
                      Imagine the Bus ride to the Beehive!

                    • Anne …
                      9 October 2012 at 7:47 pm

                      Sorry, it wasn’t Panic Pants – Deputy Chief of Staff. Still, that’s a very senior staff member and he didn’t tell Key? Pull the other one.

                      Here’s the TV3 news item – pretty damming of JK in my view.

                      http://www.3news.co.nz/Documents-show-police-knew-Dotcom-a-resident/tabid/370/articleID/272091/Default.aspx

                    • BloodyOrphan …
                      9 October 2012 at 7:55 pm

                      Actualy I remember that, Wasn’t it John Key himself who allowed Dotcom to buy the mansion?
                      (i.e. Vetoed his minister)
                      Would’ve been a Herald Article of course.

                    • insider …
                      9 October 2012 at 10:41 pm

                      If you are going to cry bollocks anne getting the facts right first would help your case. It was one of powers staff not power himself. That lowers the issue down the food chain quite significantly.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      9 October 2012 at 10:48 pm

                      It came from Powers office, and went to the Prime Mincer’s office. Where is that picture of the monkey chiefs covering their eyes and ears when you need it.

                  • Jokerman …
                    9 October 2012 at 9:52 pm

                    “..the Magical Mystery Tour…they coming to take you away…take you away….take you away.”

                  • Josh …
                    9 October 2012 at 11:46 pm

                    The difference here is that in July 2011, Simon Power knew that the FBI was interested in Dotcom. Recall: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10816772

                    That is probably the reason why he chose to inform the PM’s Office of his intention to deny Dotcom’s overseas investment application. And if that’s the case, then Key probably had some prior knowledge.

                    The fact is Power deliberated over Dotcom’s application for three months before making a decision. Is it believable that he didn’t discuss it with the PM at some point?

  9. freedom 9
    9 October 2012 at 11:33 am

    the US govt knows one thing for sure, having the growing middle east wars as a distraction allows all sorts of space for what you get up to at home. Remember, in the modern Amerika you are a suspected terrorist first and a citizen second.

    “the extent that 1021(b)(2) purports to encompass protected First Amendment activities, it is unconstitutionally overbroad”
    http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/428766-hedges-v-obama-perm-inj.html

    This ruling has been overturned, then an injunction was won, then a stay was put on the injunction, so now a whole bunch of other judges have been asked by the big boss man to secure the stay permanently and get his ‘lock em up then ask the questions’ law rolling nationwide. Sure it’s over in America so what does it matter right? Not like they are gonna start spying on kiwis, imprisoning people without charges, ask for troops on the ground or start flying Drone missions over here . . .

  10. Jokerman 10
    9 October 2012 at 2:05 pm

    “The Gold War”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10839360

    and business not looking too positive in the land of the long grey crowd either according to the daily fish and chip wrappings.

    (sorry Prism, it was “Infidels” by Bob Dylan i keep forgetting to reference)

    What a prophet dear Bob has been; The only international concert i have seen was Bob with Patti Smith at a stadium in Christchurch; Patti Smith, now she is as wonderful as Helen Kelly and Julie-Ann
    (i am such a man)

    -“The Minstrel In The Gallery….looked down upon the smiling faces…”

  11. captain hook 11
    9 October 2012 at 2:28 pm

    who read todays Dompost?
    one story is about Annette King complaining to the speaker of the house about craig (hamburger) heatley giving incoherent mumbling replies to oral questions.
    On the letters page one writer is complaining about Russell Norman getting too much time on teevee3.
    Nashnil cant have it both ways.
    If they put up up drawling bumblers on the floor of the house who cant make it in the world at large then tough luck.

  12. Jackal 12
    9 October 2012 at 2:53 pm

    National determined to increase exodus

    Be ready to wave goodbye to more of your loved ones, especially if they’re just trying to start out in the workforce…

  13. Jokerman 13
    9 October 2012 at 3:08 pm

    From the foregoing survey of conspicuous leisure and consumption, it appears that the the utility of both alike for the purposes of reputability lies in the element of waste that is common to both.
    In the one case it is a waste of time and effort, in the other it is a waste of goods.

    “Theory of the Leisure Class”
    -Thorstein Veblen; american economist and social scientist

  15. PlanetOrphan 15
    9 October 2012 at 4:26 pm

    6090 people have decided to sell their red zone properties to the Govt.

    The Govt is processing them a 50 per week ….
    That’s 121.8 weeks before they’re all paid (2.34 years)

    • vto 15.1
      9 October 2012 at 4:29 pm

      Ha yep, doesn’t pay to add up timeframes in Chch, they are too frightening.

      Also, see my post at Mr Wrong re the government’s current smoke and fire around not being able to pay its bills. Perhaps the two are linked …….

      • PlanetOrphan 15.1.1
        9 October 2012 at 4:39 pm

        Agreed, I’ve suspected this for some time now, hence all the belt tightening rhetoric.
        2.34 years before some people will even start to rebuild their lives.
        4.44 Years after the quake they start to rebuild.

        And Brownlee is calling them ungrateful ……
        What does this Gnat government actually do for us!.

    • BloodyOrphan 16.1
      9 October 2012 at 6:00 pm

      Those Americans are seriously paranoid, more than a little hypocrytical, and not willing to investigate the hardware properly for themselves.

      I’m sure a good Engineer could suss those switches out in short order.

      Hence the UK response.

      • RedLogix 16.1.1
        9 October 2012 at 8:23 pm

        and not willing to investigate the hardware properly for themselves.

        Maybe they don’t need to.

        There, sources report, Huawei readily admitted that it was undertaking such data interception and collection.

        The ISS conference is an annual gathering of Middle East and African law enforcement, intelligence and homeland security telecom operators responsible for “lawful interception, electronic investigations and network intelligence gathering,” according to the ISS agenda. A similar event is scheduled from March 4-6, 2013, also in Dubai.

        In its presentation, Huawei said that it had this capability using a particular technology called Deep Packet Inspection, or DPI.

        DPI is the key technology in high capacity data interception and mining, according to the WND source who asked not to be named but attended the Huawei briefing.

        WND has obtained a copy of Huawei’s DPI briefing.

        While Huawei’s presentation of its DPI capability was meant to show how it protected Huawei-equipped networks by detecting malicious code, sources said that the very same technology “can be very effectively used to conduct widespread industrial espionage and breach national telecommunications security.”

        While many of these techniques are not unique to Huawei, one only has to look at the CCP’s overtly totalitarian history vis a vis the internet (The Great Wall of China) to quickly conclude that they are wholly the authors of their own misfortune here.

        Or maybe not so paranoid after all.

  17. Dave Kennedy (bsprout) 17
    9 October 2012 at 4:58 pm

    I feel we should give due recognition to the the benefits that this National led Government is delivering to many….(or perhaps I should say some):
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/national-govt-brings-much-happiness-to.html

  18. Te Reo Putake 18
    9 October 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Video of Sydney cops tasering a student to death. Warning, contains nudity and police brutality.

    • felix 18.1
      9 October 2012 at 8:20 pm

      But that can’t be real TRP, everyone knows cops are the best of the best doing the hardest most thankless job around for entirely altruistic reasons.

      There’s no way the job would attract thugs and rapists and murderers, certainly not the kind of cowardly scum who would electrocute a man to death after they already had him in handcuffs.

  19. Pascal's bookie 19
    9 October 2012 at 7:19 pm

    If you haven’t seen the video of Gillard dealing to the, for now, leader of the opposition, it is soooooo well worth the 15 minutes.

    http://t.co/YbGgkwcL

    That’s a hiding.

    • Colonial Viper 19.1
      9 October 2012 at 8:01 pm

      Bloody hell. That’s a thrashing.

    • RedLogix 19.2
      9 October 2012 at 8:14 pm

      Makes Helen look downright meek and mild. Impassioned and intelligently coherent at the same time … bloody impressive.

    • Anne 19.4
      9 October 2012 at 8:25 pm

      +1
      I remember when Julia Gillard became Prime Minister of Australia, she spoke of Helen Clark as “having been her role model.” Well, I could see Helen Clark standing there making exactly the same speech. Congratulations Julia.

      • RedLogix 19.4.1
        9 October 2012 at 8:39 pm

        I agree, but while Helen refused to engage with the vile misogyny that was directed at her (does anyone else recall the filth that was being email circulated in the months before the 2008 election?) … it’s remarkable to see Gillard name it and shame it so very directly.

        • karol 19.4.1.1
          9 October 2012 at 8:41 pm

          it’s remarkable to see Gillard name it and shame it so very directly.
          Snap, RL.  I just said something similar.

    • felix 19.5
      9 October 2012 at 8:37 pm

      ‘kin A.

    • karol 19.6
      9 October 2012 at 8:40 pm

      Thanks for the link.  My impression was that the Aussie house isn’t as shouty as the NZ one.  Gillard delivers her ticking off emphatically – but it’s in the way it’s stated, and the body language.
       
      The opposition front bench looks a glum ,rum, unimpressed and unimpressive lot.
       
      And Gillard does something I don’t recall Helen Clark ever doing: she publicly and clearly calls out the leader of the opposition, opposition MPs and members of their party for some of the slurs they have directed at her personally.  She calls them out for calling out to her in the House that she needs to be made “an honest woman”; she calls them out for the way they refer to her as a bitch and a witch.
       
      That’s the way to do it – take them on in public. Clark tried to avoid giving such slurs oxygen by publicly ignoring them.

      • Anne 19.6.1
        9 October 2012 at 9:11 pm

        Clark tried to avoid giving such slurs oxygen by publicly ignoring them.

        That’s true Karol but I don’t think Helen had much choice. Most of the vitriol was being spread in bars, sports clubs, work-places etc. With the exception of the ‘childless’ barb, very little of it came out in the House or by way of the MSM. The ‘Alan Jones slur’ on the other hand gave Julia the opportunity to get stuck into all of them.

        Most of the nasty stuff against Helen began very soon after she was selected to be the new MP for Mt Albert. She was extremely hurt by them, but because she didn’t know who was spreading them there wasn’t much she could do about it.

        She did come out in public over the disgusting stories about her husband, Peter Davis but it didn’t stop her opponents from continuing to spread those stories.

        • RedLogix 19.6.1.1
          9 October 2012 at 9:41 pm

          Thanks for that. It makes complete sense. All I can say is that the slurs, the jokes and nastiness while obviously less personal and pointed for us than it was for HC, it was still nonetheless felt by many of us on the left as a malign, shameful episode in this nation’s history.

          Collectively we owe her an apology.

          • mickysavage 19.6.1.1.1
            9 October 2012 at 9:55 pm

            Aye

            New Zealand’s loss was the United Nation’s gain.

            I saw Helen speak in NZ recently and I thought “why do we have this buffoon as a leader when we could still have Helen” … 

          • Anne 19.6.1.1.2
            10 October 2012 at 6:07 pm

            What I can tell you RedLogix is: most of the individuals who started the rumours lived in the locality, and they all ended up in ACT. Are you surprised?

  20. Jokerman 20
    9 October 2012 at 7:44 pm

    these Youth Wages; occupational trenching.into Agricultural Colleges.
    Low Wages.What is the incentive? only the stick of benefit sanctions.
    Low Wages.What is the incentive for productivity?
    Low Wages.What will the displaced boomers live on?
    Low Wages.Will keep young people domestically dependent.

    Targeting Beneath Vote Majority. How Slippery Is That?

    that Lovely Sister Wendy and her Art Illustrations.

    Pay It Forward

    Traditionally Modern

    these “niche schools”. I enjoyed the exploration of the Sikh School from Birmingham.

    “not counter-productive to their children” the Head suggested.

    They Teach All Faiths; Teachers of All Ethnicities and Religions

    Think Kura. (that John Tamihere, his mouth is less disciplined than Hone; arrogant! Wow!)

    Key’s Sunset Boulevard:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_Boulevard_(film)

  21. captain hook 21
    9 October 2012 at 8:07 pm

    what I want to see is David shearer giving kweewee his beans.
    that will be fun!

  22. Jokerman 22
    9 October 2012 at 8:29 pm

    When spiritually successful men go bankrupt
    http://gcxweb.org/Misc/LarryPile-OtherSideOfDiscipleship.aspx

  23. Feargal 23
    9 October 2012 at 8:29 pm

    As useful as a bucket of Dog Slobber – That’s our memory impaired leader – He and his Partys latest edition on the Jobs front. = $10,80/hr Jobs rate. Wooo Hooo economic Genius or what!
    He and his fool minions have just handed all Fast Food Corparates a 33% profit increase on the wage bill they currently pay their young workers.
    It’s a gift to companies already rolling about in a sea of excess cash. At the expense of the NZ worker.
    One has to ask how desparate are these eejit Tories. And what else are they not telling an increasingly impoverished NZ public.

  24. Te Reo Putake 24
    9 October 2012 at 8:32 pm

    Bernie Monk rips John Key a new one for weaseling out of the effort to retrieve the Pike River dead. It’s a new personal worst in a month of lows for Johnny Sparkles and National may as well stop standing candidates in the West Coast for a generation or two.
     
    “Mr Monk says he got the impression that the Pike River mine was no longer a priority for the Prime Minister – but told Mr Key that if he thinks that the issue will go away, it won’t happen”.
     
    Weirdly, Stuff’s front page are reporting Key’s latest bout of forgetfulness under the headline “Pike recovery revisted”, but. hey, who needs sub editors these days?

  26. Jokerman 26
    9 October 2012 at 8:38 pm

    oops,
    Headless Chickens
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooaY06DwKA
    (very distorted)

  27. Jokerman 27
    9 October 2012 at 9:13 pm

    tempting Destiny.
    other than those abominations, increased gestation of ethnic sectarianism may successfully parasite WASP capitalism

    critical reflection
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault%E2%80%93Habermas_debate

    “Verlaine…verlaine….verlaine….verlaine…”

  28. starlight 28
    9 October 2012 at 9:39 pm

    I found this article by putting in the search engine ‘john key and bank of america’

    It says that shonkey was the head of global forex at meryll lynch as they
    transfered enough debt into the irish economy to completely wipe it out
    along with the middle us classes and their homes.
    Key started borrowing $380 million a week here in nz and i can remember
    he was borrowing more than needed, ‘his reply from memory was that it
    was ‘cheap money’,what he didn’t tell the tax payers of nz is that he has
    substantial shares in the bank of america where he got those ‘nz’ loans.
    From observations it seems that our ‘dear leader’ is steering nz in the
    same direction as those economies he has overseen in his bankster days,
    i would bet that he is still ’employed’ with them as a pm’s job is not a long
    one, just long enough to cause a country immeasurable damage,there is a
    concerning pattern emerging in correlation with what i have read.
    Some good reading on www. mediawhore.co.nz.
    Also bank of america bankrolls bathurst,so that is why the front bench
    of the nacts are pushing the enviromentalist to back off court action,key
    is ‘shonkey’ deep in this as well, what a ‘slippery’ slope, when we try to
    deceive’ eh shokey.

  29. prism 29
    9 October 2012 at 11:37 pm

    I don’t think that Greens and Labour should jump in unequivocally to the Chinese-USA techno dispute. Back doors have been mentioned in the Chinese programs well Microsoft was accused of doing this. And as the USA is trying to flex its muscles over China we should be wary and try to remain neutral.

    Unfortunately Australia feels threatened by its closer Asian neighbours and welcomes USA defence, there is a contingent in Darwin I think now, and as it aligns with the USA and we tend to integrate with Oz and sign up for TPP (all done in secret), it will be hard to think for ourselves if we ever get round to that.