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Open Mike 10/06/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 10th, 2017 - 51 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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51 comments on “Open Mike 10/06/2017 ”

  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

    Court rules child must die, over ruling parents who crowdfunded for treatment overseas. No other options allowed to be explored. Only 16 other people diagnosed in the world.


    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      I’m going to have to say that, in this case, I think the courts made the right decision.

      That child is going to die no matter what and extending its life doesn’t seem to do anything to improve it’s life. It just extends it while maintaining the cruel and possibly painful existence.

      Letting the child die is a mercy.

    • McFlock 1.2

      What dtb said. Sad situation all around.

      A sad situation appropriated by a site with a distinct editorial bent, I might add. “Death panel”? “Best interests of child panel”, more like.

  2. dv 2

    Apparently the total debt in NZ is half a trillion$
    That is about 125,000$ for each person in NZ.

    So that interest cost is ca $5000 for each person in NZ

    • jcuknz 2.1

      I wonder how many treat their ‘credit’ as a monthly account and pay it off each month while accumulating next month’s ….so no interest involved except the small % added to goods and services being bought by vendors?

      • greywarshark 2.1.1

        Wouldn’t that include mortgages? It surely wouldn’t be just measuring credit card transactions. Then there is the huge amount of money that goes into road vehicles, car yards all over the place, with the threecolours of our bright new age featuring, grey, white and black. When you buy a car, whiteware too, on hp you aren’t fiddling round with short term monthly borrowings.

        • dv

          ALL debt Grey,Govt, Farm, home, business etc.

        • jcuknz

          Well I gave up loans a few years back…. I assume for the discussion that all credit is backed if truly backed which is the major question should there be a crisis.
          My current car was paid for in cash as I didn’t see the benefit of getting 1% on it at my age from a bank. A jap import was old but cheap 🙂 Younger than what it replaced and looked like a new car until I dinted it a few times 🙂

  3. Foreign waka 3

    At last, some sort of coherent statement that cannot be shoved aside with a “we have a plan”..aka Mr Smith.
    And yet, a poison and chemical used in the steel industry is now sanctioned to be added to all drinking water – Fluoride. I know that the opinions are divided but if anyone feels that additional Fluoride is needed to help with cavity prevention – than take it in tablet form. The current way of administering a chemical to all is basically mass medication.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • McFlock 3.1

      like iodised table salt 🙄

      • weka 3.1.1

        yes, and fortified foods. But it’s pretty easy to buy non-iodised salt if one wants to. Water is not so easy to find good alternative sources for because of the quantity we use.

        • McFlock

          In NZ it’s trivial to find an alternative source for drinking water. And slightly less trivial to filter your entire household supply, if you really want to.

          The differences between decayed/missing/filled tooth rates in school kids in fluoridated vs non-fluoridated water catchments is non-trivial.

          • weka

            “In NZ it’s trivial to find an alternative source for drinking water.”

            I’ve heard you make that argument before, but as someone who actually does source untreated water (avoiding chlorine), I can tell you it’s not trivial. It takes work, you need transport, a clean source of water, ways to store it that are safe etc.

            I haven’t argued against fluoridated water, nor have I suggested that we stop fluoridating and do nothing else and let kids get tooth decay, so I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t imply those arguments.

            • McFlock

              It’s as difficult as going to the supermarket. That’s pretty trivial, these days.

              As for the arguments I was “implying”, the actual reason I brought up the DMFT rates is because it shows there is a need for a population-based intervention. There is no better intervention than one that’s opt-out, tasteless, and odourless, and that also happens to be the cheapest and provides the most coverage of the population.

    • greywarshark 3.2

      Pure water could be classed as mass medication. And it’s available, being able to run it out of the taps when needed. Marvellous. And it’s good that it’s safe to drink trustingly. Don’t knock treating it for bugs or for some efficacious reason a small amount of chemical is put into it. If that chemical has other uses, just make sure it’s quality and strength are right before putting in the water.

      Life requires some risk be taken every day. I wonder that you scaredy cats can bear to stand on the pavement in case a mad cyclist or a drugged driver ploughs into you. Perhaps you have OCD. People with that can have that obssessive desire to wash their hands. The germs that we need for living are being killed off by customer fears that prompt companies to sell disinfectant hand washes.

      • weka 3.2.1

        They were talking about fluoride for controlling tooth decay in kids, which is different than chlorinating water to prevent gastro illness. But lots of places in NZ have had non-chlorinated water. It tastes better, and many people don’t want to drink chlorinated water for other health reasons. Since Havelock North there is a push to chlorinate all water supplies in NZ, because the systems we have in place are breaking down. It’s very poor design and a huge signal that there is something very wrong with the way we treat water. It also says go ahead, put cow shit in the water and we’ll throw some chemicals in before it gets to the tap to stop you getting sick. That’s fucked up on a number of levels.

        • greywarshark

          Fluoride or chlorine in small doses, will be good on a temporary basis till we solve the problems they are controlling. It isn’t a good idea to say do nothing while we wait for the cure.

          • Molly

            We are on rural tank water. No added fluoride in tablet form, and none of the children have ever had cavities.

            Toothbrushing with standard toothpaste – without the recommended flossing – seems to be doing the trick.

            • McFlock

              lucky for you.

            • Robert Guyton

              Molly – do your children have a diet that’s significantly different from most other NZ children, do you think? Do they drink water rather than sodee-pop 🙂 Your no-flossing comment is very interesting and something I’ve been looking at for a while now. No cavities is a big plus, well done all of you!

              • Molly

                Actually, our children drank quite a bit of juice when they were younger – oldest is coming up to 21. But never from bottles or sippee cups – only water from any of those. (Didn’t want them to have any sugar sitting in their mouths from using those vessels, so had an only water rule when in use).

                Also, starting cleaning their teeth from a very young age. Used a facecloth with a very small amount of child toothpaste on it as soon as their teeth starting coming through. Bought them rotating toothbrushes as soon as they were responsible for brushing their own teeth, because I read somewhere it improved the brushing.

                (Although we got away with cost of not requiring dental treatment for cavities, we weren’t so lucky with orthodontics. Past the $20K mark and still going)

          • McFlock

            Fluoride is permanent, chlorine should be temporary until more palatable and sustainable treatments can be arranged (or the water source is cleaned up).

            Fluoride is a supplement that offsets a nutrient shortage resulting from our NZ geology, like iodine is. In some parts of the world they need to actively remove fluoride because the levels are many times the safe dose, and can cause problems well beyond teeth at those levels.

          • weka

            Plenty of places in NZ have had no chlorine in their water supply and have had clean water. Still do. The adding of chlorine now because of what happened in Havelock North is not needed and is happening because as a society we think we can fix things by throwing chemicals at them. So we’re going to chlorinate clean water in preparation for when the water source becomes so polluted that it’s dangerous at the tap. Think about that.

            • McFlock

              Yep, agree 100%

              On the flipside, Dunedin has shown that even an abysmal water supply can be cleaned up significantly. 30-odd years ago it had an “E” grade and it was like drinking swimming pool water, there was that much chlorine in the supply. After much development it’s massively improved. Not perfect, lots of people still use filters and some suburbs are better than others, but if you don’t have an overly sensitive sense of taste it’s fine.

            • jcuknz

              But I assume we need the income from our dairy herds, or sheep flocks? to pay for the flouride and other ‘desirable’ things …. modern life is a balance of bad and good. I see as desirable a reduction of those poor polluting creatures.

  4. The Chairman 4

    Julie Anne Genter’s Misuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 

    Will it get the required parliamentary support?

    The notion seems to have overwhelming public support.

  5. What happened with the greens in the UK?

  6. Treetop 7

    “Fewer than 70 out of 11645 NZ foreign trusts have registered under tougher new disclosure requirements with only three weeks left to go before the final deadline, the Green Party said today.”

    Green party website.

  7. Treetop 8

    “Fewer than 70 out of 11645 NZ foreign trusts have registered under tougher new disclosure requirements with only three weeks left to go before the final deadline, the Green Party said today.”

    Green Party website.

  8. saveNZ 9

    106-year-old woman, suffragette’s daughter denied vote in UK election


    P.S. She was going to vote Labour.

  9. adam 10

    Am I the only one who called this, a Tory win but they have lost. Labour lost, but have won, social democracy is back on the table.

    I hope all the ideological liberals get that their policies are crap, and people don’t want them.

    If NZ labour don’t shift, they will gift National a 4th term.

    Because if you are having liberalism as then dominate ideology, you may as well have the ones who are honest about it – rather than flaccid whinger wannabees.

  10. Muttonbird 11

    Peter Dunne angling in on Julie-Anne Genter just like he did with Andrea Vance.

    Perhaps this sad old man who has a history of getting the wrong end of the stick with young women colleagues thought he could influence Genter in ways similar to when he tried to influence Vance.

    Time to go, you tired old dipshit. Although I haven’t heard of O’Conner doing the necessary ground work Ohariu to make this happen.


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