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Open mike 11/06/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 11th, 2021 - 79 comments
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79 comments on “Open mike 11/06/2021 ”

  1. I believe the Labour Government have seriously misread the public mood with the decision to build a seperate cycle and walking bridge over rhe Waitemata.

    GUEST BLOG: Bryan Bruce – My problem with the Auckland bike bridge

    By The Daily Blog, June 9, 2021

    Am I in favour of being able to cycle and walk across the bridge ?


    Would that be possible without building a new cycle and walk bridge?

    I think the answer might also very well be Yes.

    Of course you’d have to encourage more people to use public transport .

    How would you do that?

    Make bus travel free….

    The cycling community and the fare free communty need to get their heads together.

    If we are really serious about getting people to take up cycling for recreation and commuting, If we don't want to alienate the traveling public. Then we must integrate cyclling with public transport.

    A bike lane will displace 21 thousand cars.

    38% of people who cross the Auckland Harbour Bridge every working day do so on the bus.

    The French city of Dunkirk introduced fare free public transport and saw public transport use grow by 70%

    A similar 70% increase in public transport use across the Auckland Harbour bridge would free up the space needed for the bikeway.

    Free Buses in Dunkirk a Success

    FOCUS TRANSPORT, Monday, 16 September 2019

    The decision to make public transport free in the French town of Dunkirk (Nord) has been hailed a success after a rise in passenger use, and “new dynamism” in the city centre….

    Figures show bus use during the week rose by 70%, and by 140% during the weekends.

    The free network has now been expanded, and more roads have bus-only lanes to encourage smoother transit. The town has also brought in 14 new buses, of which three are electric…..


    If we are really serious about getting people to take up cycling for recreation and commuting. If we don't want to alienate the traveling public..Then we must fully integrate cycling with public transport.

    Central to this must be fare free services to get people out of their cars, freeing up lanes for bikeways

    But also bike friendly buses with a stowage feature for when the weather turns bad, or the distance is too far, (or too dangerous), to bike for the full length of the journey.

    Imagine cycling to work, doing a full days work. At the end of the day finding that the weather had changed having to face cycling home through the wet and cold, you instead board a bus and stow your bike in the luggage compartment for a safe dry hassle free ride home.

    • Sabine 1.1

      i think i have been arguing for super cheap to free public transport for a few years now.

      But as i was told repeatedly THIS CAN NOT BE DONE!, insert any reasons you can cook up real fast. Never mind that if public transport is still cheaper then public transport no one will use the fwiw as an ex user of public transport in Wellington and Auckland, piss poor quality, rude drivers who don't know much about their routes including Bus stops, late busses, dirty busses, and unsafe, unlit bus stops / train stops at night.

      And besides its the poor that are using this services, so it needn't be better, cause if you make it too good, too many people would use it (yes that too was offered as an explanation as to why public transport in NZ is just the best sign of poor local / regional / state wide governance).

      They rather pay for a bridge for their upper class peers then provide meaningful public transport service for all.

      • Ad 1.1.1

        Not legal under the current bus funding law.

        • Sabine

          if only we had a government that had a single majority and could (even under urgency after all Climate Change!!) there for change the legal framework to make public transport more affordable to the people.

          If only we had such a government.

          • Ad

            It's not even in the new Climate Commission recommendations.

            I can't see full free public transport extending below the 65-year limit that already exists within the Gold Cards.

            I think you're out of luck, unless the Greens somehow persuade Labour to change the law.

      • Sacha 1.1.2

        People have told you repeatedly that providing enough buses and drivers to make fares free during peak periods requires buying way more of them than are needed for the rest of the day. International research has shown that investing that extra foregone money into more frequent services gets more people using buses and trains.

        Do some basic research or resist the urge to flap your gums on the daily.

        • Hi Sacha, Some links or notated quotes to back up your assertions would be good.

          You may notice Sacha that I use links to actual case studies, and take out selected quotes with actual figures and facts.

          How about it Sacha?

          Surely it couldn't be too much to ask for you to do the same.

          Let us all see some of this 'basic research' only you seem to be privy to.

          And not just a dump of some enormous word file attachment, and tell us that it is in there somewhere.

          A few succinct quotes with some actual real world facts, would be best.

          Since you seem to be claiming you have done this ‘basic research’ it should be easy for you.

          Until you can do that, I will be flapping my fact filled gums as much as I like, in spite of your weak attempts to get me to self censor.

          • Sacha

            Absolutely no point wasting effort on providing you with more information when you have so little competence at making sense of it. Do the work yourself.

            • gsays

              What about the rest of us who are as to why free buses can't be done?

            • Sacha

              11 June 2021 at 9:42 pm

              Absolutely no point wasting effort on providing you with more information…

              But Sacha it is not a matter of you providing me with more information Sacha, despite what you claim, you haven't provided us with any information at all. Just assertions.

              You have not provided one single fact, or proof.

              What am I to think of your argument if you can't do that?

              With zero rational argument you are saying that I should 'stop flapping my gums'.

              If you don't like what I have to say, tell us why.

              If you have some rational argument to make, make it.

              If you have some facts to provide, provide them.

              Until you can do that, you have absolutely no moral point to to make telling me I should not be making comments on this issue.

              It is not enough to tell me to stop flapping my gums thinking you have said something clever or convincing. Just making insults with nothing to back them up.

              • Sacha

                • I had never heard of this term.

                  So I googled it, (as you do).

                  What is 'Sealioning?'

                  ….You make a point, only for the sea lion to storm in asking for proof of what you said. Your expertise and knowledge are denied. It’s your job to go out of your way to convince them, even though they’re the one who questioned you in the first place.
                  — Jessica Lindsay, Metro UK, 5 July 2018


                  I made a point about fare free public transport, You stormed in with an unsubstantiated claim that free public transport doesn't work. I challenged you to provide some proof of your allegation, I was and still am genuinely interested in reading the proofs for this. Instead of anwering my request for this information, you accused me of something I had never heard of.

                  I have some questions.

                  Today in the news;

                  Act leader David Seymour faces challenge as he names 'white privilege' Whangārei school

                  15 Jun, 2021 03:00 AM

                  The name of the Whangārei school that Act leader David Seymour claims made a child speak of their "white privilege" has emerged – and it's absolute news to the principal.

                  The claim has filled talkback radio and served as a platform for Seymour to decry what he says is a race-based approach by the Labour Government.

                  Seymour has told the Northern Advocate the school where the incident took place was not a primary school – as originally reported and as he has tweeted – but was Whangarei Girls' High School.

                  "I'd love him to be able to put the facts to that," said Girls' High Principal Anne Cooper. "Iv'e certainly had no complaints about it"

                  She has heard nothing that sounds at all similar to Seymour's claim a child "was asked to what they had done to acknowledge their white privilege that day".
                  …."Kids talk and we encourage kids to talk. Parents are very good at coming forward. I'd certainly like to know if it is the case."
                  Pat Newman Hora Hora Primary school principal and president of Te Tai Tokerau Principals Association, said the initial allegation that it was a primary school had fellow principals looking at each other and finding no answers…..

                  ….Seymour tweeted the story, saying: "Primary school kids are being forced to stand up in class and say what they'd done to acknowledge their white privilege." In subsequent interviews, the "primary school" was repeated to Seymour, which he did not correct….


                  My question for you Sacha is this;

                  Are Anne Cooper and the other Te Tai Tokeau school principals 'sealioning' David Seymour by challenging him to provide proof of his allegations?

                  And if not, why not?

                • What is Sealioning?

                  "Would you mind showing me evidence of any negative thing any sealion has ever done to you?"
                  The Sealion

                  Is Daryl Davis a Sealion?

                  “how could you hate me when you don’t even know me?”

                  Daryl Davis


                  Hi Sacha,
                  The cartoon you supplied to explain sealioning, depicts a European couple in Victorian dress being towered over by a dark indistinct hulking figure, (the sea lion). The sealion obviously is a metaphor for something else, something that this white Victorian couple fear or dislike.

                  No chance a sealion ever turned up in a 19th Century white couple's house or vehicle. (But a black person might have.)

                  Substitute the sentence I don't like sealions for, I don't like Black people, or I don't like Jews, or I don't like Asians

                  And then the sealion's question is valid and justified.

                  Why don't you like blacks? or Jews? or Asians?.

                  What has a black person ever done to you?

                  Let's fill in the missing blanks.

                  The European woman says "I don't mind most marine mammals. But SEALIONS? I could do without sealions. (read black people)

                  Her male companion says, "Don't say that out loud"

                  Voicing his fear that racist sentiments expressed in public, risks being challenged.

                  P.S. The indistinct and nightmarish hulking depiction of a a sealion in the cartoon looks more like a female walrus. (sealions are more streamlined).

        • Sacha

          When I say repeatedly, I also mean previously. Find your own fish meal.

    • Ad 1.2

      Cycling is free per journey already. So you don't have any useful point.

      It's just unsafe in too many parts of the network.

      • Ad

        11 June 2021 at 8:48 am

        Cycling is free per journey already. So you don't have any useful point…..

        I would politely demure.

        With a price tag of $785 million, the public sticker shock at the cost for a stand alone cycleway over the Waitemata Harbour presents a very real problem for the cycling community and the government to sell this project to the public.
        The political blowback may be severe.

        • Ad

          You are simply making a mistake confusing capex and opex.

          You were explaining that all public transport on buses should be free. They are currently subsidised over 50% per trip.

          Whereas per trip cycling has no need for subsidy.

          But if you want to go down the road of CAPEX subsidy, the per passenger subsidy for everyone taking a bus or train is several hundred every ticket because you add in both the CAPEX of building all these motorways and busways, but also their hundreds of millions of maintenance per trip per year.

          Again, you don't have a point when you are wanting to force everyone who wants to not use a car to go by bus, rather than giving them a cycling option if they choose it.

          • Gabby

            Cos only buses use roads right?

          • Noel

            Take away the fare and buses are free??????????????

            • Noel

              Love this.

              " Although free public transport at a first glance may seem attractive both from economic, social and environmental perspectives, the message learnt from a number of schemes is that free public transport offers poor goal achievement in all these respects, and at a high cost. The main effect is a huge growth in patronage, up to 13-fold increase is reported, of which the larger brunt is shifted from walk/cycle, or induced. The effects on car traffic levels are marginal and typically they are offset already after a few years’ traffic growth."

    • '

      Oops! I forgot to put the link in.


      GUEST BLOG: Bryan Bruce – My problem with the Auckland bike bridge

      By The Daily Blog June 9, 2021

      Bryan Bruce is one of NZs most respected documentary makers and public intellectuals who has tirelessly exposed NZs neoliberal economic settings as the main cause for social issues.

    • gypsy 1.4

      In my view, cycling absolutely has a place in alleviating Auckland's transport problems. However in many ways it has been set up to fail by the inept AT. As pointed out in this article, AT, in their obsession with forcing people out of cars, are turning the cycleway projects into “safety-and-streetscape-upgrade-and-stormwater-fix-and-traffic-calming-and-pedestrian-improvements-and-retaining-parking-and-cycling…" projects. And outcomes like this ("Auckland Transport has plans costing between $23 million and $35 million to fix a controversial cycleway through Grey Lynn and Westmere that hardly anyone uses.") just turn the public against cycling and cyclists, when the culprit is AT, not cycling or cyclists.

      • Ad 1.4.1

        Have you used the new Tamaki Drive cycleway that was opened last year?

        Or the one down Quay Street opened early this year?

        Are you aware of the big one opening at the end of this year?

        Or the huge ones being built right now through Orakei?

        I don't feel the need to defend AT, but they are delivering cycleways.

        • gypsy

          Have you seen what AT did to Grey Lynn? To Mt Albert? In fact pretty much any precinct they touch? Simon Wilson wrote this article four years ago now – if anything they've got worse.

  2. '

    This is what democracy looks like

    The Keystone XL Pipeline Is Officially Dead

    Olivia Rosane Jun. 10, 2021 12:55PM EST

    "Terminate your fossil fuel projects now — or a relentless mass movement will stop them for you."


      • ghostwhowalksnz 2.1.1

        We dont have a direct democracy as was used by the citizens of Athens.
        We have a representative democracy.

        Its like ‘Free Speech’ which is limited to what the government can stifle. Doesnt apply to private places ( venue hire !) or private platforms like Facebook or Twitter ( as Trump found out)

        • Incognito

          We have a bit of both, of course, but we need more and better.

          • “We dont have a direct democracy as was used by the citizens of Athens. We have a representative democracy.” ghostwhowalksnz

            “We have a bit of both, of course, but we need more and better.” Incognito

            We certainly do, need more and better democracy. Absolutely

            We also need to fight very hard to defend what democracy we have.

            • Incognito

              The best way to ‘fight for it’ is to use it as best as we can and then use it even better.

      • Incognito

        11 June 2021 at 8:21 am

        This is what democracy looks like.


        This is indeed what democracy looks like.

        Hi Incognito, you are right, the cycle protesters, (and the XL pipeline protesters), have shown the way.

        Just as you say; This is what democracy looks like.

        Discussing the nuclear option for nurses:


        9 June 2021 at 9:21 am

        …..You toying with ideas is like Donald Trump playing with the two red buttons on his desk, one was for the Diet Coke Button the other one was for frying the world.

        Open mike 09/06/2021

        Incognito, thanks for the compliment.*

        Just as I have been saying; sooner or later the Nurses will have to go for the nuclear option, That is, if they want to achieve their demands.

        The NZNO have promised more strikes to come. If that doesn't work. If the government continues to ignore the nurses demands to put more money into the public health system. Then the nurses have two choices. Choose the diet coke, or go to the nuclear option.

        The cycle protesters and the XL pipeline protesters have shown the way.

        Within days of the cycling protesters' occupation of the Harbour Bridge, the government coughed up $785 million for a bike bridge across the Waitemata.

        I have 'toyed' with the idea that the nurses should follow the cycle protesters example and occupy one lane of the Auckland Harbour Bridge until the governemt agrees to direct negotiations with the nurses.

        What ideas the nurses come up with, is up to them.

        Obviously strikes aren't working. So the next step is the nuclear option, either that, or give up their demands.

        As the Nurses have made extremely clear, if they give up their demands, we will all suffer.

        Striking nurse on staff shortages: 'It’s a matter of robbing Peter to pay Paul'

        Cate Broughton 05:00, Jun 09 2021

        “I think it’s important for the public to know what the situation is in public hospitals, how stressed the nurses are, what risk the public could be at."
        [Karen Batchelor​ senior nurse at Burwood Hospital spinal unit]

        "… I’ve seen colleagues in tears, looking up to see what allocation they have the next day.”

        [Karen Batchelor​ senior nurse at Burwood Hospital spinal unit]


        *(it's not often I get compared to the leader of the free world, even a bad one).

        • gsays

          Talking to a senior nurse after the strike. The mention of more strikes came up.

          The observation was made that next time, it needs to be a 24 or 48 hour strike. The DHBs can cover one 8 hour period with management and office staff no sweat. Covering 4-7 shifts is a whole different story.

          • ghostwhowalksnz

            Isnt $80,000 pa enough ?
            The last pay round was it, 2 -3 years ago took about a year. That was quite generous as it involved a catch up from previous years .
            So no catch up this time, so the reason is ….. or is it another $10k to make the ‘exhaustion’ go away.

            • ghostwhowalksnz

              11 June 2021 at 2:43 pm

              Isnt $80,000 pa enough ?…..

              ……or is it another $10k to make the ‘exhaustion’ go away.

              Understaffing is the issue most raised by nurses when asked why they are on strike.

              The logic is that increasing the level of remuneration will attract more nurses and alleviate under-staffing. So yes $10 K may make the exhaustion go away.

              Union struggles are complex, what may look like greedy workers to some, is often a consequence of the narrow legal constraints put on unions. Under the ERA all strikes for political demands are illegal. That makes raising political demands like increasing staff levels, problematic for unions to raise in a dispute, except in an oblique manner.

            • gsays

              "So no catch up this time, so the reason is ….."

              Prime Minister Ardern 2018:

              "While today represents a conclusion of bargaining it also marks the start of a long term programme to rebuild our public health system and the status of the nursing profession. "

              • ghostwhowalksnz

                healthCARE .

                Its not a salary race for the highly paid members.

                The offers for the healthcare assistants and EN were up to 11% higher

                next year the junior doctors will be back …. 'exhausted' again, we need much more money to stop the exhaustion.

  3. vto 3

    Conservatives are always slow on the uptake. They should never be put in positions of leadership because they are by nature useless at moving forward into new territory. Conservative are only useful as the ballast in the hold of the ship, to stop it turning over in heavy weather – no other use.

    This is all perfectly exemplified by Nick Smith and his belated apology to the gay community over same-sex marriage opposition. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125396043/retiring-mp-nick-smith-apologises-for-voting-against-samesex-marriage

    This also highlights that other great truth "always follow the hippies". Where the "hippies" are is where society will be in the near-future.

    Conservatives should wake up to their place in the world. We would all be much better off.

    always always

  4. Sabine 4

    so how many vaccines are left in the country, and could Hooton be correct in his math?

    Maybe dear Spokesperson for the Government (or what ever he is) maybe it ain't July that will be bumpy, maybe your bumpy ride starts next week?


    The week ending June 6 New Zealand had 189,660 doses of vaccine available for distribution, down from 288,000 the previous week and 327,240 the week before that.
    A senior clinician, speaking anonymously, told the ODT that vaccine supplies were low across New Zealand.


    If the Prime Minister's words are to be believed, New Zealand will run out of Covid vaccines early next week.

    On Tuesday, Jacinda Ardern and her Covid-19 Response Minister, Chris Hipkins, announced 1 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine would be delivered to New Zealand in July.

    "These consignments," she said, "will double the total number of Pfizer doses we've received this year, taking the total to more than 1.9 million — enough to fully vaccinate almost one million Kiwis."

    She warned that the majority of the new doses would be delivered in the second half of the month.

    Ardern also announced that her Government was now administering 20,000 doses every day. The same day, the Ministry of Health reported that more than 775,000 doses have already been administered. With more than 5000 doses having been wasted, the Prime Minister's announcement suggested the Ministry had only 120,000 doses left in stock.

    That would only be enough to take us through to the end of Monday. There would not even be enough for the 220,000 people waiting for their second dose.

    This is no conspiracy. It's just maths based on the Prime Minister's words from the Beehive's "podium of truth".

    The Beehive now suggests the Prime Minister didn't tell the full story. It says there's no chance we'll run out on Monday because there are supplies coming into New Zealand that she and Hipkins didn't mention on Tuesday, including 100,000 doses diverted from the Covax programme, that is meant to help the world's 92 poorest countries get vaccines.

    That'll get us through another five more days. Latest data from the Ministry of Health suggests 190,000 doses now in stock.

    But even if the Government manages to administer 1.9 million doses by the end of July, it will have vaccinated no more than 950,000 people. That's just 18 per cent of the total population or 23 per cent of the population aged 16 and above.

    It doesn't even include the estimated 2.2 million people in priority groups 1, 2 and 3, which include border and MIQ workers and those they live with; high-risk frontline workers and people living in high-risk places; and people at risk of getting very sick from Covid-19, such as those who are aged 65 or over, obese, diabetic or pregnant, or with a heart condition. What hope for the rest of us?

    Perhaps we shouldn't be so surprised, given reports that more than 25,000 people in the highest priority group — border workers and those they live with — have not yet had a single jab. And more than 1000 border workers still aren't even getting tested as required.

    oh well, lets just hope we continue to be lucky, because many of use will not be getting any jabs any time soon.

    • Incognito 4.1

      From 5 June 2021 all work in MIQ facilities will be undertaken by fully vaccinated workers.

      MIQ has about 4,500 people working in facilities from around 300 different employers. A handful of workers (less than 0.25%) have not yet had their second vaccination for good reasons, and we are actively following those up with employers. They won’t be working in MIQ facilities in the meantime.


      Hooton can’t help himself; you’ll need to fact-check everything he says.

      • Adrian 4.1.1

        My presumption is that the missing MIQ staff are because the net has been spread very wide in the definition of MIQ. Truck drivers who never get out of their truck and visit a wharf maybe only once or twice a month with all transactions done on an IPad, delivery drivers or couriers dropping off at the distribution site some way from the actual isolation facilities again with very little human contact. If you include the families of these people yes you do get big numbers but I'm certain there are not four and a half thousand staff in the actual hotels.

        • aj

          All these facilities operate 24/7 shift work. Could easily add up to 4500 including facility staff, health staff, security staff.

        • Incognito

          My presumption is …

          … but I'm certain …

          It must be those blimmin spin doctors working for MIQ. I bet they got their shitty shots.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 4.1.2

        Yes , theres more


        "People in some areas have reported not being able to get a vaccine because some sites have run out of doses, or are running low.This isn’t surprising, because every district health board outside of Auckland has gone above its target number of vaccinations. In three areas – Bay of Plenty, Whanganui and Nelson-Marlborough – they’ve done more than 50 per cent extra."

        Which was my earlier point ….not recycled from reading a newspaper…that they are meant to be used up as soon as.

        • McFlock

          or as some wag on twitter put it, the tories have gone from complaining that the vax rollout is an abject failure because of low uptake to now complaining it's an abject failure because in several DHBs it's going quicker than planned.

        • Matiri

          I was just about to post that link Ghostwhowalksnz….

          Also I am fortunate to be in Nelson-Marlborough where we have both had two jabs (early 60's, small rural community where 50% of our population has already been vaccinated). Our local medical centre has not wasted a single dose and another clinic is running again tomorrow.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 4.2

      The vaccine supply isnt like a savings bank to be stored up for emergency use. The supply is low because they are being USED.

      |I had to laugh when I saw Hootons latest opinion column on this …unlike you I dont have a subscription- looks like hes getting his info from Bishop who is running the spin cycles of vaccine rollouts. I suppose for Hooton hes dumped Muller and now hitched his wagon to Bishop as the next great white hope

      Maybe Sabine, your cottage industry on anti government concern trolling , often 1/3 of open mike all comments PER DAY , could check out a part time position with Exceltium ?

      • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.1

        Maybe ghostwhowalksnz, you should get your head around the fact that criticism of the current government and having a commitment to holding them to account does not equate in any way to support for the Opposition.

        • ghostwhowalksnz

          Of course , but Sabine has made it a cottage industry with recycled Hooton claims as well. Its a fanatsy to think Sabine is holding anyone to account by reading & recycling the news of each day. It sort of buries what little nuggets can be mined. Yourself would be a good model with some areas where you have a particular interest and it makes worthwhile reading.

          Like I said, I counted the other day and it was around 1/3 of all comments.

          • Sabine

            hahahahahahahahahahaha oh boy, you are a sweet one, arent' you?

            • ghostwhowalksnz

              I hope Hooton is paying you to 'mirror his concerns' , is it a therapeutic relationship and he feels much better in getting it of his chest …. oh thats right HE gets paid for his column and you get nothing from achieveing nothing for the day.

              • ghostwhowalksnz

                I was a bit tough there…but let me create a word picture , after the election with 10 ACT Mps , they take on Policy Advisors galore , but some find they dont have much to do , so one, fresh out of university, uses the idea of concern trolling labour government , by reading the papers and putting it verbatim on social media… my crystal ball is getting cloudy, so no more details

        • greywarshark

          Rosemary McD Maybe we should make higher demands on the Opposition to hold the government to account where it matters, as this is what they are paid by citizens to do. By us doing it for them, it removes their impetus to actually do some work and stop being gadflies or perhaps blowflies clustering around the latest tasty gossip spill.

          • Rosemary McDonald

            Maybe we should make higher demands on the Opposition to hold the government to account where it matters, as this is what they are paid by citizens to do.

            A laudable aspiration to be sure GWS, but we are talking about National and/or Act. To expect either one of these to do anything other than indulging in petty, sniping, political point scoring is simply not reasonable.

        • Drowsy M. Kram

          Can NZers concerned/anxious/fearful that our Govt doesn't have enough doses of the COVID-19 vaccine to meet demand engage in some constructive criticism?

          There’re some noisy 'babies' crying about a lack of 'milk', but where are the adults making constructive comments about how to increase 'milk' supply, bearing in mind there's a global shortage, and more desperation/death elsewhere.

          Has the NZ Govt looked at the feasibility of purchasing other COVID-19 vaccines – we did have pre-purchase agreements in place for other vaccines. Sure, these might be (slightly) less effective, and/or carry a (very slightly) greater risk of adverse side effects, but still – worth a look? Maybe NZ would have been further along its 'vaccine roll-out path' if the Govt hadn't hitched our whole wagon to one of the most effective (and safe) vaccines. But then, damned if they did, and damned if they didn't.

          Should our Govt have foreseen this pandemic and funded the development of a large-scale vaccine production facility in NZ? Maybe they should still do that once we can draw a post-COVID breath – but would it be cost-effective?

          I really don't understand the purpose of this continual 'bleating' about vaccine shortages and vaccination delays – the NZ Govt and public service, for all the resources at their disposal, don't have magic wands.

          Maybe leave it to the free market to supply a 'solution' – never mind that 'vaccine' you're getting might just be a (hopefully sterile) saline solution.

          Pfizer warns on fake online COVID vaccine shots [June 2021]

          The Attorney-General’s department admitted in its submission that “the risk of counterfeit vaccines, such as fake Pfizer vaccines, is potentially exacerbated by concerns about the AstraZeneca vaccine”.

          Changes during the rollout could be vulnerable to fraud as fraudsters take advantage of urgent time-frames,” the department said.

          Desperation Is Creating a Black Market of Fake COVID-19 Shots in Mexico

          Fake vaccines are like liquid gold,” said Raul Sapien, president of the National Council of Private Security, CNSP in Spanish, an association of private security companies that follows this problem closely.

          Like "liquid gold" people!


        • McFlock

          Hoots is full of shit. That's not holding the government to account.

  5. Adrian Thornton 5

    Why anyone with even one working critical thinking brain cell still working within their cranium allows themselves to gets caught up this new anti-China frenzy, when it is so blatantly obvious it all so much bullshit I don't know… I mean seriously are people really that naïve that they actually think this is driven by any concern for the welfare of the Uighurs?

    UK Hypes China ‘Threat’ While Selling Country Billions in Military-Related Equipment

    "The U.K. government has authorized the sale of £2.6-billion worth of military and civilian equipment with potential military use to China in the past three years, government figures show.

    Last year saw a tripling in exports to China of “dual use” items defined as “civilian goods with a military purpose.” Some £1.6-billion worth were authorised in 2020, compared to £526-million in 2019."

    • Byd0nz 5.1

      Well, yea. One of the best ways to curtail genocidal practices and a lot of human rights abuses, is to halt the manufacturing and dealing of weapons, in short, any country who indulges or supports these practices is a major player in human rights abuse.

      Oh for some distant future where weapons and money are from the distant past!

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        This Swedish entity seems likely to be reliable and objective in its report on weapons manufacture and sales and shows Australia seeking to increase its involvement. (Swedish Peace Research Institute)

        Dec/20 https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2020/global-arms-industry-sales-top-25-companies-85-cent-big-players-active-global-south
        The report also looks at the international presence of the 15 largest arms companies in 2019. These companies are present in a total of 49 countries, through majority-owned subsidiaries, joint ventures and research facilities.
        With a global presence spanning 24 countries each, Thales and Airbus are the two most internationalized companies—followed closely by Boeing (21 countries), Leonardo (21 countries) and Lockheed Martin (19 countries).

        The United Kingdom, Australia, the USA, Canada and Germany host the largest numbers of these foreign entities. Outside the arms industry hubs of North America and Western Europe, the largest numbers of entities of foreign companies are hosted by Australia (38), Saudi Arabia (24), India (13), Singapore (11), the UAE (11) and Brazil (10).

        Alexandra Marksteiner of the SIPRI Arms and Military Expenditure Programme said: ‘There are many reasons why arms companies might want to establish themselves overseas, including better access to growing markets, collaborative weapon programmes, or policies in the host countries tying arms purchases to technology transfers.’

        Of the 49 countries hosting foreign entities of the top 15 arms companies, 17 are in low- and middle-income countries. ‘Countries in the Global South seeking to jump-start their arms production programmes have welcomed foreign arms companies as a means to benefit from technology transfers,’ said Diego Lopes da Silva, Researcher at SIPRI.

        Outside the arms industry hubs of North America and Western Europe, the largest numbers of entities of foreign companies are hosted by Australia (38), Saudi Arabia (24),
        Countries…welcomed foreign arms companies as a means to benefit from technology transfers
        This could apply to NZ with the rockets program.

        And the UK? Where does it stand?
        Oct/20 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/06/uk-remains-second-biggest-arms-exporter-with-11bn-of-orders

        UK exports also exceeded those of Russia and France for the second year in a row, according to official figures released by the Department for International Trade (DIT), placing Britain number two in the global rankings behind the US.

        Now Biden and Johnson are publicly embracing really-good relations between the two countries it is probably 'bombs away' maties.

        • Byd0nz

          Yes, and it's all disgusting and contributing to further human rights abuse and depletion of resources.

          Evolution needs to fast forward to end this primitive era.

          • greywarshark

            Interesting thought about evolution. When so many young men are regularly sacrificed on the altar of keeping 'these b…s under control' and also grabbing hold of their resurces which they unreasonably refuse to trade with us. There is a loss of their genes and their potential contribution to the country and the world. There was a saying in UK about losing 'the brightest and the best' of the young men in two world wars. What does that do to evolution? And what slant has it on increasing the influence of psychopathic people who remain behind the damage, directing operations and causing carnage? Is Israel completely brainwashed by the nasty thugs conducting assymetrical war against puny or low numbers of Palestinian weapons and stone throwing?

    • Gabby 5.2

      What are the odds on Biden mentioning this to Blobby Jobby? Might be worth a flutter.

      • greywarshark 5.2.1

        A flutter of eyelashes possibly. The UK and USA are a chancy lot, they would pack their weaponry in boxes with pictures of birthday cakes and toys, and notices 'Hold till Christmas' and send them to Israel; knowing that the Jewish peeps don't have Christmas – it would be a code. Very cunning and underhand they are.

  6. greywarshark 6

    A few thoughts and helpful links for those on the land who might not have seen these particular ones. And for the townies who know we rely on the farmers for much, but ned to update about the latest movers and shakers.

    2013 https://beeflambnz.com/knowledge-hub/PDF/trees-farm
    Trees on pasture land used for grazing. Seems a good idea. Plant and Food Research says:

    Provisioning services →Feed (pasture quantity, quality; tree foliage)→Wood →Shade and shelter to animals

    Regulating services →Filtering of nutrients and contaminants→Flood mitigation→Recycling of wastes and detoxification→Carbon storage in soil and trees→Regulation of N2O and CH4 emissions→Biological control of pests and diseases.

    Provisioning and regulating services (or benefits) have an economic value. Overall, erosion decreases these values, whereas soil conservation increases them

    Poplar and willow have proved to be valuable species for erosion control and other use. But need maintenance so they don't grow too tall. And good for animals especially during droughts.

    2013 One of the reasons that poplar and willow foliage can provide better feed value than poor or dried-up pasture is because they contain valuable compounds called condensed tannins and phenolic glycosides, such as aspirin, according to research by Associate Professor Peter Kemp of Massey University.

    Willows and poplars for drought feed – NZ Farm Forestry
    https://www.nzffa.org.nz › resource-centre › august-2013

    I wonder if pollarding the pasture trees would be good; grow till there are nice round branches for lopping, giving control and income stream all together.

    Pollarding is carried out on younger trees, which regrow faster than older trees and are less susceptible to disease. The height is always left at at least six feet above ground level, so that animals don't eat the new growth. Some plants, for example, hazel, paulownia, hornbeam and beech, are more suited to coppicing.10/03/2021

    Pollarding Vs Coppicing | Howe2 Trees | North West Tree …https://howe2trees.co.uk/pollarding-vs-coppicing

    Other links:




    And I recommend watching Mulloon Institute work in Australia – a farmer-led organisation that has brought a recalcitrant government alongside. https://themullooninstitute.org/newsletters

    Then there is deferred grazing, which is a sort of lying-fallow system and done as recomended provides cost-saving feed at vital times of the year.

  7. greywarshark 7

    John Cleese being interviewed by someone who argues with his negative opinion about the UK media – a Europe wide survey has respondents putting the UK at the bottom No. 33 – least trusted – for four years. Interesting how self-satisfied and bullish apparently the UK operatives in the media are. This is at 3m it might get better in the rest to 10m.

  8. greywarshark 8

    There seems to be a little hiatus in commentators' enthusiasm for discussion. Perhaps all things have been said for the present situation.

    You might like to listen to this discussion about Orwell v Aldous Huxley – don't know what they are to consider but listening to opinions from two 'elite' guys is interesting and all will be revealed in time.


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