Open mike 11/10/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 11th, 2022 - 123 comments
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123 comments on “Open mike 11/10/2022 ”

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  1. weston 1
    11 October 2022 at 6:56 am



    You couldnt make this shit up !! It just goes to show how dumbed down populations have become courtesy of their media , did they think there would be no retaliation ??

    • Adrian Thornton 1.1
      11 October 2022 at 7:55 am

      Yeah, like people whom you think are half smart seriously informing you that the Russians are shelling the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant…that they control!…sabotaged their own (just completed) Nord stream infrastructure…and now would have you believe that there is some sort of mystery around who struck the Crimea bridge….if nothing else I guess it does prove that good old fashioned propaganda still works a treat.

      Notice how the number civilians killed was never mentioned in the western coverage of the Crimea bridge attack….some lives are more worthy than others it would seem…luckily we have the BBC, The Guardian and RNZ there to tell us which ones they are.

      • Tony Veitch 1.1.2
        11 October 2022 at 9:19 am

        Adrian, I'd be interested in your take on a leader who labels an attack on a legitimate military target as a 'terrorist' attack, and then sends missiles into apartment blocks at 2am.

      • Sanctuary 1.1.3
        11 October 2022 at 10:57 am

        "…Notice how the number civilians killed was never mentioned in the western coverage of the Crimea bridge attack…"

        Tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians have died so far in this war. Don't come here and all of a sudden whine about civilian losses your Kremlin toad.

        • Adrian Thornton 1.1.3.1
          11 October 2022 at 12:36 pm

          "whine about civilian losses"….man you are one sick individual…I was just pointing out how MSM propaganda projects the worthiness on one life over another depending on which way they are directing their propaganda….of course that simple logic wouldn't resonate with you.

          • Stuart Munro 1.1.3.1.1
            11 October 2022 at 1:40 pm

            I was just pointing out

            You were pushing the proPutin material that constitutes your characteristic response to absolutely anything. You are a little too far down the apologist slippery slope to be casting aspersions.

            • Adrian Thornton 1.1.3.1.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 2:48 pm

              "You were pushing the proPutin material"…exactly where did I do that?…please do copy and paste a line or two from my comments today and show us all the outragous “proPutin material” you speak of…

              • Stuart Munro …
                11 October 2022 at 3:05 pm

                You were congratulating Weston on his pro-Putin find, of a clip criticizing Ukrainians for celebrating the destruction of the Kerch Strait Bridge, and then you went on to single out the three civilian casualties of that attack as examples of the inhumanity of Ukrainians, while your Fuhrer was busy conducting this mass bombardment of civilian targets, to which you gave your silent assent.

                Non-stop repetition of Putin's talking points and endorsements of his atrocities is about as progressive as Pol Pot. Have you no shame?

      • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.4
        11 October 2022 at 11:39 am

        Who would benefit most from the destruction and melt down of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant?

        All the shelling of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant has been of the sub-station and feeder lines to the Ukraine Grid.

        The targeting of the Ukrainian electicity supply is also a feature of Russia's latest missile attacks on Ukraine cities. Not just apartment buildings were targeted by Russian missiles but so were sub-stations and power lines.
        One of the side effects of this targetting of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant’s connection to the Ukraine power grid, is that in the event of a power outage or even a maintenance shutdown, power is fed back into the plant from the grid to keep the reactor cooling pumps working.
        Without this connection to the grid the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant is reliant on diesel powered generators to keep the cooling pumps going. These pumps have a limited supply of diesel on site. And under war time conditions and Russian occupation have very little chance of being topped up.
        These factors make the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant much more vulnerable to melt down.

        Genocide is in the toolbox of every imperialist.

        The shelling of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant also lines up with Putin's nuclear threat. With the added benefit of deniability. The perpetrators of nuclear genocide, just like the perpetrators of other genocides like to be able to deny it. Hitler himself secretly awarded medals to the administrators of the Holocaust promising them that their crimes would be kept secret. Hitler never expected that one day his empire would be cracked right open to expose its inner workings to the world.

      • mpledger 1.1.5
        11 October 2022 at 1:29 pm

        Yes, I was upset when I saw the bridge explosion and saw their was a truck on the bridge that took the full blast. Ukraine is to blame for that attack that killed that life (as a best guess it was Ukraine). However, who put Ukraine in a position that they had to defend their own territory? If you don't accept that it is morally allowable to be able to defend you're own territory then you just let people who choose to be immoral win.

        You can't pretend that Putin is doing this for any noble cause.

        • Adrian Thornton 1.1.5.1
          11 October 2022 at 2:40 pm

          I didn't say or even imply anything you said in the later part of your comment…I only pointed out the way MSM..BBC, The Guardian, RNZ etc choose the civilians that they deem worthy of feeling empathy for and the civilian lives which they don't.

          And it is not just in this war I might add…look at the news cycle on BBC/RNZ today, the Venezuela landslides don't even make the front page..36 swept away to their deaths, dozens missing….or the recent monsoon rains that triggered the most severe flooding in Pakistan’s recent history, washing away whole villages..1700+ dead, leaving the entire country on the brink of starvation, the coverage lasted a few days at best, no updates…nothing….

          ..now contrast that coverage with the storm that battered the US from couple of weeks ago…we got first hand accounts and actual names to the faces from some those affected, daily (almost hourly) updates….yep when it comes to MSM media, there are lives that we are meant to care about and those that don't…especially not Brown, Black, Yellow lives and as it has become obvious..the civilians of any enemy of the West.

          • Stuart Munro 1.1.5.1.1
            12 October 2022 at 7:25 pm

            I only pointed out the way MSM..BBC, The Guardian, RNZ etc choose the civilians that they deem worthy of feeling empathy for and the civilian lives which they don't.

            And if you were not the faithful mirror image of that partisanship you might have a point. But you are, so you don't.

            The evidence thus far suggests that you don’t in fact know how the MSM makes such decisions, or why. Which is in part how you are able to maintain your delusion of false equivalence between Putin’s propaganda, which is made out of whole cloth, and journalism, which, though it is imperfect, is not founded upon lies.

    • Stuart Munro 1.2
      11 October 2022 at 9:03 am

      Why shouldn't they celebrate the humiliation of a monstrous enemy – the genocidal despot that has killed thousands of their people?

      A small country under the jackboot of a fascist superpower celebrates the victories it can – Snake Island, and the Kerch Bridge.

      • Sanctuary 1.2.1
        11 October 2022 at 10:50 am

        Anyone else noticed an uptick in Kremlin propaganda since the Russian defeats in the Ukraine? Quite desperate stuff from the fascist fellow travellers who hitched their stars to Putin' s wagon and who are now discovering what they thought was a sure thing is turning out to be anything but. Their salty tears are so delicious I'd gladly slurp them from their faces with my large and raspy tongue.

        I would suggest Putins's craven fools spend a bit more time with an atlas. The Russian army is a railway army. All the rail links in this region run North to South. The main rail supply lines to the Russian forces in the Donbas used to run from Urozovo in Russia to the critical major rail marshalling yards in Kupyansk and this hub fed the entire Donbas – Severodontensk, Donetsk, Horlivka, and Luhansk all rely on this line. That is why the Ukrainian capture of Kupyansk was such a big deal – it severed the main supply route for the entire Russian grouping of forces in the Donbas. The Russians now rely on the main highway network hub based on Starobilisk to supply their forces, which is why you are seeing them impressing all sorts of civilian vans and pickups for road re-supply. If the Starobilisk road links can be brought under observed fire then it's all over for the Russians in the Donbas – they'll have to retreat back into Russia for supplies.

        Now, the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions are supplied via the rail link that runs northwards from Rostov parallel to the border with the Ukraine to Voronezh (it also runs eastwards to Volgograd but this is strategically unimportant for now). From the Ukrainian border this rail link is in easy HIMARS range and also very vulnerable to commando raids on choke points. Therefore a complete Russian defeat in the Donbas and a retreat into Russia proper imperils the entire Russian logistics position from Kherson to Voronezh.

        Now, From Rostov the line also runs over the Crimea bridge to supply Sevastopol and thence to the Russian group of forces in the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. So now you can see why the Kerch bridge is a legtimate military target. It is THE critical logistics link back to Russia via Rostov and Voronezh. The Russians are aware of this so are really, really sensitive to the obviousness of approaching defeat if their rail links get broken by attacks anywhere south of Voronezh. Already there are early reports of fuel and ammunition shortages in the Russian forces in the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. Personally, I hope the Ukrainians take down the illegally contructed bridge for good with some US supplied ATACMS missiles and take out the rail supply route to Russia for good.

        • Jenny are we there yet 1.2.1.1
          11 October 2022 at 12:21 pm

          ‘
          "The Russian army is a railway army." Sanctuary

          Since the American Civil War, railways have been a vital part of modern warfare.

          As guns got bigger they could no longer be towed by horses. This was amplified with the invention of the battle tank. Heavy and slow moving tanks can not be brought from the rear to the front in any reasonable time without rail. Admittedly freight trucks can manage some heavy military equipment, but are limited in size and weight and capacity.

          As armies got bigger with numbers of soldiers in the field measured in the hundreds of thousands, even millions, they could not be supplied by wagons. (or even trucks).

          As guns became mechanised their rapid rate of fire consumed ammunition at a phenomenal rate, a rate of consumption that could only be resupplied by heavy freight.
          Without a reliable rail connection the Russian military in Kherson have been dealt a deadly blow.

          “Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.” General Omar Bradley

          The attack on the Kerch road/rail bridge supplying and connecting the Russian occupied Ukrainian territory of Crimea to Russia, is a major set back to the Russian war effort, and is a legitimate military target.

          The Russian Federation revenge attacks on civilian infrastructure is not.

          Calvary, (or its modern equivalent, air power) do not win wars, feet on the ground do.

          Without being able to supply their front line soldiers Russia’s defeat in Ukraine is guaranteed. It’s only a matter of time.

        • Adrian Thornton 1.2.1.2
          11 October 2022 at 2:46 pm

          "Their salty tears are so delicious I'd gladly slurp them from their faces with my large and raspy tongue"…..and that would suit you perfectly…being such a willing a lap dog of Western Imperialism and all.

          • Jenny are we there yet 1.2.1.2.1
            11 October 2022 at 5:05 pm

            '

            "…being such a willing a lap dog of Western Imperialism and all." Adrian Thornton

            That's rich coming from you Adrian. …being such a willing a lap dog of Russian Imperialism and all.

            .

    • Jenny are we there yet 1.3
      11 October 2022 at 11:19 am

      Hi Weston, watched the YouTube video contained in your link.

      The voice over, condemns Ukraine citizens "gloating" over the attack on the Kherson Bridge, which also killed two unfortunate civilian Russian YouTube bloggers caught in the blast. But then goes hypocritically goes on to gloat at the Russian revenge attacks on civilian centres in Ukraine, that deliberately targeted and killed many more civilians, than that.

      John Minto has an excellent post over at the Daily Blog today that skewers the pro-Russian hypocrites for their support for the annexation of Ukrainian territory, linking it to the West's hypocrisy over the annexation of Palestine territory.

      Time to treat annexation by Israel the same as we do with Russia

      By John Minto

      October 11, 2022

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/10/11/time-to-treat-annexation-by-israel-the-same-as-we-do-with-russia/

      It has been refreshing to see the government stand firmly against the Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine…..

      I have argued that the defeat of Russian Imperialism will weaken Imperialism everywhere. It will do this in a number of ways.

      Exposing the hypocrisy of the global Imperialist rivals, openly criticising the crimes of of each other but silent on their own crimes.

      The humbling of Russia by the people of Ukraine will remind us that as murderous and genocidal and hypocritical as all imperialist powers are. Imperialism is not all powerful.

      America learnt this lesson in Vietnam. The USSR learnt this lesson in Afghanistan. The Americans learnt this lesson in Afghanistan.

      And the Russians are about to learnt the very same lesson in Ukraine.

      Imperialist colonial conquest and imperial global rivalry and war are so last century. Or at least should be.

      Russia's defeat will be an encouragement to all progressive Left anti-imperialists the globe over.

      Slava Ukraine – Free Palestine

      • Molly 2.2.1
        11 October 2022 at 9:57 am

        For the interested:

        Detrans subreddit at 14 June 2022: 33.6K members

        Last update on 17 June 2022: 34.2K members

        As at 11 October 2022: 40.2K members

      • Sabine 2.2.2
        11 October 2022 at 10:34 am

        That is what happens when biology is considered bigotry. You can't actually teach reality when fantasy is what is pushed.

        So yeah, they can get those tits back, but not without pain, cost and misery. And i am very sure that wile medicaid/ medicare in the US will pay for removal of the breast, they will not pay for reconstructive surgery. Not sure if ACC here in NZ would pay for reconstructive surgery should a de-transitioner claim ' children can not consent to surgeries intended to desex them'. Which i am hoping will come sooner then later.

        Might have to go dig and find a few accounts on twitter that are currently undergoing the fights with insurance etc to cover medical de-transitioning.

        Never mind the boys who are castrated for ever. Or those that ended up having nullification surgery as what ever was done in the bottom surgeries failed. They ain't ever going to have that back, and while i have little patience with adults (although mental illness should be considered when pushing them on that path), kids can not consent to castration, sterility, being without any sexual function, and a lifetime of medicalization cause you just got your gonads cut of or your ovaries removed.

        This neo – religion of the gendered soul and the rush to irreversible body modification is the cruelest cult of them all. You can check in, but you will never check out.

        • weka 2.2.2.1
          11 October 2022 at 10:40 am

          Spot on Sabine.

          That video the other day of the woman saying it's up to children to decide with the surgeons, she said this in the context of PBs and micropenises. When told they're locked into the micropenis, she said they probably want that. As if a mentally distressed 13 year old can give informed consent.

        • weka 2.2.2.2
          11 October 2022 at 10:42 am

          and please keep laying out the physical realities of the surgeries and meds. Reading that stuff is not for the fainthearted. I don't know how progressives can look at the evidence and ignore the horror of it, so I'm going to assume many are in lala land and don't understand what the surgeries involve or what the outcomes can be like.

          • Sabine 2.2.2.2.1
            11 October 2022 at 11:10 am

            I truly believe that many just want to be kind. And that kindness was taken hostage and now it is very hard to walk away from it as the damage to many was done.

            But what we are creating are eunuchs, male and female ones. And once these kids grow up and fully understand the damage and the permanent nature of that damage issues will arise.

            I hope that saner heads will prevail, but i don't have any hope to be honest.

            • weka 2.2.2.2.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 11:26 am

              I agree about the kindness thing.

              Eunuchs now being represented by WPATH as trans and continued ignoring of detrans people is not a coincidence

              • Sabine …
                11 October 2022 at 11:33 am

                Well they have too. All of them that go through with the removal of secondary sex organs and primary reproductive organs and re-assignment surgery will be a eunuch. Every single one of them.

                What i am afraid is in the near future when these people realise they are now infertile and want kids. Who will have to provide them with a 'birthing enabled body' in order to gestate the children they can no longer father/incubate themselves?

                Will 'birthing body' become a job? Will people be forced into that job on the grounds of sanctions and removal of benefits?

          • Molly 2.2.2.2.2
            11 October 2022 at 12:32 pm

            Ritchie's recent thread with link to pro-surgery data here:

            https://twitter.com/TullipR/status/1578872772729896960?s=20&t=w4Fup4jZypONn173ONZ45w

      • Anker 2.2.3
        11 October 2022 at 10:42 am

        https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/980899?src=MKM_transgender_health_YYMMD_MSCMRK&uac=427125AX&impID=4725169&fbclid=IwAR0xlYFZY7dj-RPeRzKFmzXyVGVT9JFKJ-G8KkmOjRjmksPVkkJD6lOKcIE

        I came across this link on voice surgery for transgender people about very high complications rates for laryngoplasty.

        I am still waiting for those on the left to suddenly wake up and see gender ideology for what it is. Some of us post a great deal of good quality information about many aspects of this harmful ideology, including medicalising of children and still many on the left turn a blind eye.

      • Anker 2.2.4
        11 October 2022 at 10:55 am

        Matt Walsh posted a clip from Nashville Hospital, of a Dr talking about how gender surgeries can bring in big money compared to hormones only ie masectomies, phalloplasty and vagioplasty. It apparently brings in a lot of $$$

        • arkie 2.2.4.1
          11 October 2022 at 11:13 am

          Matt Walsh? This also is Matt Walsh:

          Walsh asserted that “girls getting pregnant” at a “young age” is perfectly normal. He said that teen pregnancy isn’t a problem as long as the teens are married and stressed that it’s normal for 16-year-old girls to get pregnant because that’s when they’re “technically most fertile.”

          “So to all of a sudden act like this phenomenon of girls getting pregnant at that — at a young age — that we consider young, 16 or 17, to act like it’s a new thing is ridiculous,” he said. “It’s always been that way. … Girls between the ages of like 17 and 24 is when they’re technically most fertile.”

          https://www.mediamatters.org/matt-walsh/msnbcs-joy-reid-matt-walshs-defense-teenage-pregnancy-shows-anti-abortion-movement-about

          • Sabine 2.2.4.1.1
            11 October 2022 at 11:22 am

            Yes, the most fertile age for young women is between 16 – and mid late twenties.

            A woman's peak reproductive years are between the late teens and late 20s. By age 30, fertility (the ability to get pregnant) starts to decline. This decline becomes more rapid once you reach your mid-30s. By 45, fertility has declined so much that getting pregnant naturally is unlikely for most women.

            https://www.acog.org/womens-health/faqs/having-a-baby-after-age-35-how-aging-affects-fertility-and-pregnancy#:~:text=A%20woman's%20peak%20reproductive%20years,is%20unlikely%20for%20most%20women.

            And yes, he is a Christian man who believes that women should have children as 'god' intended them too, and as many as 'god is willing' to grant.
            For those that don't want gazillion of children they can use many forms of pregnancy controls including vasectomies for men – which btw seems to be the friendliest form there of as it is reversible, and no one needs to insert foreign objects into their bodies nor dose themselves with hormones every day for years.

            Non of that undoes the video of a doctor telling other doctors that castrating children is really good for business because these operations go wrong many times and you need to revisit err revision that botched penectomy/inverting the penis into something loosely resembling a vulva and a 'vagina'. Ditto for the botched phalloplasty surgeries . Ditto for the sepsis, necrotic tissue, constant UTI and so on and so forth. All make money. So much money.

            Matt Walsh is like many of his kind a broken clock, but twice a day he is correct.

            And here is the Lady Doctor (very liberal and highly educated for sure) in her own words as to how everyone can get a never ending bucket of gold for castrating and sterilizing children in the name of gender woo woo.

            https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313523232931840

          • weka 2.2.4.1.2
            11 October 2022 at 11:33 am

            What's your point Arkie? Are you saying that because Walsh is a hard right fundamentalist then everything he says is wrong? Or not trustworthy? Or we should ignore it even when he is right or saying something useful that the left won't say because so many people are too scared to speak out?

            Did you watch his film What is a Woman? Do you know why women will reference it despite Walsh’s beliefs and politics?

            Do you have anything to say about the opening tweet and the lifelong physical damage being done to young men and women? The left won't talk about it, so it' being left to the right to define the narratives in the general public. This is why there is an increasing backlash against trans people.

            The conversation being had by gender critical feminists this week is what to do about the connections between child sex advocates, Queer Theory, and the trans child charity Mermaids. If you object to Anker posting a Walsh video then you might want to consider this

            https://twitter.com/MForstater/status/1579105734926929920

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange

            • Anker 2.2.4.1.2.1
              11 October 2022 at 12:13 pm

              Speaking of What is a Woman (Matt Walsh's film), the Babylon Bee did a hilarious "sequel", what is a man?

              No need to continue to look after 2 – 3 minutes (spoiler alert, once the credits start rolling).

              Sometimes humour is what gets you through.

            • arkie 2.2.4.1.2.2
              11 October 2022 at 12:16 pm

              My point is that Matt Walsh isn't a feminist ally. His 'documentary' isn't accurate or scientific, he is a defender of the patriarchy, he sees women as subservient to men:

              The fear-mongering of “gender ideology” is grounded in two beliefs: first, that LGBTQ people somehow threaten Christian values and the traditional family, and, second, that men and women should follow antiquated gender roles, lest they corrupt society.

              https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/in-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-asks-a-question/

              You have said that GCFs respect trans people, Matt Walsh does not:

              You are all child abusers. You prey upon impressionable children and indoctrinate them into your insane ideological cult, a cult which holds many fanatical views but none so deranged as the idea that boys are girls and girls are boys. By imposing this vile nonsense on students to the point even of forcing young girls to share locker rooms with boys, you deprive these kids of safety, of privacy, and of something more fundamental, too, which is truth. If education is not grounded in truth, then it is worthless, worse, it is poison. You are poison. You are predators. I can see why you try to stop us from speaking, you know that your ideas are indefensible, you silence the opposing side because you have no argument. You can only hide under your beds like pathetic little gutless cowards, hoping that we will shut up and go away. But we won’t. I promise you that.

              • Molly …
                11 October 2022 at 12:27 pm

                So you posted a promotion of Matt Walsh views, because you don't like them?…OK.

                "You have said that GCFs respect trans people,"

                Gender Critical is just a shared understanding. Gender Critical people are not a hive mind. Matt Walsh is not Gender Critical.

                Do you know what Gender Critical is?

                • Molly …
                  11 October 2022 at 2:21 pm

                  Note: Didn't think it needed pointing out that Matt Walsh neither claims to be or is – a feminist, of any kind, or any ordinal number of wave.

              • Anker …
                11 October 2022 at 2:29 pm

                Criticising Matt Walsh is a great diversion for you Arkie, when you don't want to face up to the harm gender ideology is doing by confusing children about their sexed bodies, leading vulnerable young people into a path of medical transition that many later regret (utterly minimizing the number of de-transitioners), disrespecting women's rights to safe spaces. And shutting down feminists groups such as Speak Up For Women when they want to hold public meetings to discuss a piece of legislation that impacts women.

                But thank you so very, very much for informing us gals who is a feminist ally (or not). We are simply not capable of figuring that out for ourselves!

                BTW I think it is up to all of us to decided who our allies are whether we are feminist or not. Listen to yourself mate. Your a man telling women that another man isn't a feminist ally………………I think there is a word for that………

          • Molly 2.2.4.1.3
            11 October 2022 at 11:46 am

            Yes, Matt Walsh is arguably an idiot.

            But not so much of an idiot as to not save the videos that hospitals THEMSELVES posted, before they came under scrutiny and removed them.

            Now, if an appropriately quanitifiable left-wing progressive had done the same, then posted on their site, a link could be given to that source. But AFAIK, none did.

            The video remains the same in both cases.

            But this point is now moot, as Youtube has removed it.

            (I'll post if I can find a copy without Matt Walsh's commentary, which is all I got from my initial search frown):

            https://youtu.be/RDhshvoJnqU

            • Sabine 2.2.4.1.3.1
              11 October 2022 at 11:52 am

              you find the clip in my comment above.

              there is also the clip form a admin person in that hospital advising people to 'not' consientiously object to such surgeries and the use of 'trans buddies' to acompany children being brought to the hospital for these surgeries.

              they really did document all and made it public.

              https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313566589468672

              and the trans buddies

              https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313627008405504

              this really has very little to do with people who have a debilitating mental health crisis in regards to their sexed bodies and their own discomfort with these bodies. This is just a money making machine that profits from diagnosing as many as you can as fast as you can and you put them on the conveyer belt of 'revisions'.

              • Molly …
                11 October 2022 at 12:20 pm

                Thanks, again Sabine.

                I've grown increasingly curious at the excuses people continue to make just to avoid looking at information that challenges their (let's face it, their mostly uninformed and determined to be so) positions.

                So, as the mountain of evidence increasingly is brought to light, the reality is that for them, no evidence will be considered, let alone accepted.

                It's not a question of quality, it never has been.

            • weka 2.2.4.1.3.2
              11 October 2022 at 12:07 pm

              what clip did YT remove?

          • Anker 2.2.4.1.4
            11 October 2022 at 12:08 pm

            Thank everyone for responding to Arkie (and with the appropriate responses to) who is trying to distract from what my link was showing. A Dr at a hospital promoting trans surgeries because it is such a great money spinner, much better than hormones alone.

            Matt Walsh of course is a christian conservative and actually is entitled to his views. It so happens that he is able to see through gender ideology and the harms it is causing and is skillful at calling it out. I salute him, even though I don't share a lot of his views.

          • AB 2.2.4.1.5
            11 October 2022 at 1:29 pm

            Excellent if Walsh has just discovered that profit-driven healthcare might set up some perverse incentives for the providers. And that these perverse incentives result in harm to others. Just like profit-driven anything else. And that therefore, profit-driven activities need sensible regulation – and perhaps total exclusion from areas of life that are essential to human wellbeing like health, education, policing & justice, infrastructure (transport, energy), housing (at a basic level) and maybe others..

            But he won't come to that conclusion because from the (fortunately) little I've seen of him he sounds like a RW loon. But yes, the gender identity/ideology furore is throwing up some distinctly weird bedfellows.

            • Anker 2.2.4.1.5.1
              11 October 2022 at 3:33 pm

              Agree about the distinctly weird bedfellows AB. Nevertheless I think the other angle on this is that even when medicine is privatised, clinically it is most often driven by science and ethics. But gender medicine has unfortunately been taken over by activists, (in NZ Patha and worldwide Wpath). It is shocking to realise this.

            • Sabine 2.2.4.1.5.2
              11 October 2022 at 5:07 pm

              It actually matters not one bit what Matt Walsh does with this information.

              It matters what we do with it.

              Yes, the US Healthcare system is a for profit driven system. Thus safeguarding makes sense, and not sending healthy kids onto the castration and revision to the castration conveyer belt is important if one cares about kids being left to be kids, and to keeping their healthy bodies healthy until they grow into an age where they truly can make an informed desicion affecting their health, presentation, reproductive rights and so on.

              Why would I or anyone else for that matter exclude correct and horrific information just because the source that it comes from is not to my liking or my political affiliation.

              The point is why is no one on the left – or so called good guys – pointing out that this University Clinic promoted the removal of healthy sexual primary and secondary organs, and a replacement of these organs with fake organs made from penile material, the scrotum, and in the case of the transmen fake dicks rolled from forearm muscle/nerve/skin tissue or inner thigh tissue (the later leading to needed liposuctions as females have fat cells in these inner thighs and thus teh fake penises can grow fat), that they threated doctors who might not be inclined to such medical actions with 'consequences' if they were to abstain on the grounds of conscience. Which btw, means that they could refuse an abortion but not the chemical castration of a boy who has yet to reach Tanner Stage 1 of his puperty and who is put on blockers via an implant or self / parent administered injections. .

              A whole lot of people can disagree on many things and yet agree for example that climate change is real and that castrating and sterilising children is wrong.

              So Matt Walsh is exactly the dick that he always was, just for once he is correct.

              And fwiw, he did nothing much more then post the many video clips that the staff from Vanderbilt University Clinic posted on their webpage for public viewing. Maybe the liberal, highly trained, highly paid proponents of these sex re-assignment surgeries did not think that some people might dislike what they are doing and would call them out on their shit?

              • arkie …
                11 October 2022 at 5:23 pm

                that castrating and sterilising children is wrong

                This is only happening in Matt Walsh's imagination. Children are not undergoing sex re-assignment surgeries, it's not correct, it just isn't happening:

                On average, VUMC has provided five gender affirming surgeries to minors every year since its transgender clinic opened in 2018. All were over the age of 16 and had parental consent, and none received genital procedures.

                https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/vanderbilt-pause-gender-affirming-surgeries-minors-rcna51445

                • weka …
                  11 October 2022 at 5:53 pm

                  In the US the age that one becomes an adult is 18. In NZ it's 20. Obviously children mature at different rates and in some contexts we would refer to a 16 yr old as an adult, others as a child.

                  Pertinent here is that some teens come into their transition very young. They may have to wait until 16 to get surgery, but they can get puberty blockers before then. This then becomes a pathway that has long term impacts on development. Look at the rates of young teens on PBs that go on to surgery and cross sex hormones.

                  and none received genital procedures.

                  I consider unnecessary mastectomies to be brutal. The issue here is whether you believe that all these kids are inherently trans and have such severe GD that they will kill themselves without surgery, or whehther you believe at least some of them are gay, lesbian and/or autistic, who are traumatised and who have concurrent other mental health issues that are being ignored and many of whom will grow up to be gay/lesbian and GNC rather than trans.

                  I'm in the latter camp. I've listened to a lot of detrans stories. Those kids are being socialised into being trans, and the girls in particular are a concern for feminists because they hit their teens hating the bodies, with gross sexual pressure from boys who came of age on internet porn, and who just find it easier to be a man than a woman.

                  I think many of those supportive of gender identity ideology have no idea what is happening, or the extent of the rage that women who get it are feelings. We've all been here before, only this time it's not the conservatives that are doing the damage, it's the liberals.

                  • arkie …
                    11 October 2022 at 7:51 pm

                    Pertinent here is that some teens come into their transition very young. They may have to wait until 16 to get surgery, but they can get puberty blockers before then.

                    Yes, to block puberty they are taken before puberty.

                    Look at the rates of young teens on PBs that go on to surgery and cross sex hormones.

                    Social transition is the first step, those who are then prescribed PBs are taking the next step, both of these steps are completely reversible. Before surgery and hormones these teens have often been living with their gender affirmed for 5-10 years, it is not a decision made lightly.

                    You are entitled to beliefs, but the decision is ultimately that of the patient and their parents, and medical professionals.

                    I’ve listened to trans people. I am supportive of them in their authentic expression of themselves. There is no ‘gender identity ideology’ making people transition:

                    The phrase is neither a legitimate academic term, nor a political movement.

                    It is a theory drummed up by hard-right religious activists, who present it as a gay- and feminist-led movement out to upend the traditional family and the natural order of society. It’s a catchall phrase to sell a false narrative and justify discrimination against women and LGBT people. And it is winning elections.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/30/gender-ideology-big-bogus-and-coming-to-a-fear-campaign-near-you

                    • Anker …
                      11 October 2022 at 8:08 pm

                      RE puberty blockers the MInistry of Health has just changed the advice on their website that PBs are "safe and fully reversible". And has been the case in many other countries. So you are out of date Arkie.

                      Teen girls who come out as trans is a completely new cohort, almost never heard of until around 2012. This was around the time the smart phone was introduced. Many of these young girls start identifying as trans after visiting trans chat rooms where they start developing a trans identity.

                      puberty blockers inevitably lead in almost all cases to cross sex hormones. Many of the de=transitioners I have listened to have deep voices and facial hair and no longer appear female. If you listen to them, it is impossible to think that medically transitioning people unless the are well out of adolescence is an appalling idea.

                      I feel very sure that this movement to medically transition young people will be found to be mass medical adventure.

                      Some say we have this new cohort now because it is finally o.k. to come out as trans. But if this was the case we would be seeing women in their 30's , 40's, 50's and 60s coming out as Trans. We are not. BTW generally speaking NZders have been accepting of transgender people. Think Carmen, Georgina Beyer and Bob Moodie (the police commissioner who used to cross dress in kaftans).

                • Sabine …
                  11 October 2022 at 6:54 pm

                  hahahahahahahahaha

                  5 every year since 2018? That comes to 30. And 30 is a number greater then 0.

                  30 children that have lost their tits, their uteruses. 30 children that are now in menopause if we assume it is only girls.

                  And in saying that, god knows what they will admit too tomorrow.

        • Sabine 2.2.4.2
          11 October 2022 at 11:14 am

          Vanderbilt University Clinic in Tennessee. They just anounced that they would no longer offer surgery to minors, thus admitting that they offered surgery to minors. But yes, with surgeries having high failure rates, high rates for revisions, and more revisions and then some more this type of 'mental health care by surgery' is very very lucrative.

          trigger alert, this is from the daily fail

          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11296557/Vanderbilt-University-Medical-Center-suspends-transgender-operations-kids-report.html

          Vanderbilt University Medical Center [VUMC] confirmed it was freezing all 'gender affirmation surgery' on underage patients pending a review of their processes, in response to calls from Tennessee lawmaker to investigate the hospital.

          The center came under fire last month after conservative activist Matt Walsh released a 2018 video showing Dr Shayne Taylor – an LGBTQ specialist at the hospital – touting transgender surgeries as 'huge money makers' for the hospital.

    • Ad 2.3
      11 October 2022 at 3:44 pm

      It's not the progressives you need to worry about Weka. Transition support is company policy. Fletchers have confirmed it today.

      Fletcher Building Introduces Gender Affirmation Leave And Transitioning At Work Guidelines | Scoop News

      Naturally this now becomes a recruitment competitive advantage so the other key employers will now rapidly follow suit.

      Been around in the main institutions like Otago University since 2017.

      Whichever way they are going, the NZ public service entities are all required to assist transitioning people.

      Transgender employees » Employment New Zealand

      • Sabine 2.3.1
        11 October 2022 at 5:12 pm

        What do you think Ad, will neutered people be better wage slaves?

        • Ad 2.3.1.1
          11 October 2022 at 5:56 pm

          Increasingly.

          • Sabine 2.3.1.1.1
            11 October 2022 at 6:56 pm

            Maybe we should castrate them in the uterus. After all, we only need some zombies for the economy to grow. Sleep, work, eat some roaches err crickets or some plant based mush, work, sleep. Humans. they are great to farm.

      • weka 2.3.2
        11 October 2022 at 5:34 pm

        It's not the progressives you need to worry about Weka

        Useful to know that you are ok with teenage girls having their breasts removed thinking they can grow them back later if need be.

        • weka 2.3.2.1
          11 October 2022 at 5:35 pm

          maybe it's not clear. The issue in the tweet is about medical people not getting informed consent. If progressives won't talk about that, like you just didn't, it's on them.

        • Ad 2.3.2.2
          11 October 2022 at 5:54 pm

          As per above, your argument is not with me but with the largest employers in New Zealand.

          • Molly 2.3.2.2.1
            11 October 2022 at 6:32 pm

            You provided nothing in the way of argument, Ad.

            Just a company policy.

            • Ad 2.3.2.2.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 6:37 pm

              Oh you caught onto the point then.

              Commerce is advancing as fast as the NZ legislation intended.

              Any local rearguard action is long lost.

              • Sabine …
                11 October 2022 at 7:00 pm

                You know what? They might be offering some bonuses in the future to have every child sterilized, reproductive organs removed, with a wee nullification operation leaving only a urethra to piss – in a toilet of ones gender of course. We are kind about that.

                This might even be encouraged by a progressive government under the guise of kindness and inclusivity by a charismatic butcher of a leader.

                What it is not is moral, ethical and kind.

                But then, we have farmed everything, destroyed everything and now we are farming and destroying the next generations of us.

                Some even call that progress in the name of an evergrowing economy.

                Humans, what are they even good for. ey?

                Do you think we will lock uteruses to beds for nine month to bring forth the next lot of castrated nullified sentient bodybags?

                • Ad …
                  11 October 2022 at 7:13 pm

                  "Castrated nullified sentient bodybags." Even today over at the big Agritech conference today they were praising the rise of lab grown meat. Sabine, Marge Piercy and Margaret Attwood would be proud of a sentence like that.

                  And yet weirdly here we are, it's been public sector employment policy for years, law for over a year, the main NZ companies and sports authorities are figuring it out, and when I step out my door females haven't collapsed as a category of human being.

                  • Sabine …
                    11 October 2022 at 8:09 pm

                    We are talking here about children who are being de-sexed by doctors who tout the good growth business of desexing children like they were puppies or kittens. But then for some capitalism and making money is all that matters.

                    However, Who or what is a female or a male? I mean really could you at least define the words that you sprout in order to make sense of whom you are speaking of?
                    Do you speak of Lady Dicks or Man Pussies? Some consider them both ‘female’.

              • Molly …
                11 October 2022 at 8:42 pm

                "Oh you caught onto the point then."

                Yes. The point is you have nothing of worth to offer here.

                Using corporate policy as your left-wing analysis on the unevidenced affirmative healthcare model should be an embarrassment for you.

                I suspect however, you feel like you have dominated the conversation with your precise corporate justification.

                Try engaging your concern for transgender youth in a productive manner, and really look at the decision making and evidence behind our healthcare approach.

      • Anker 2.3.3
        11 October 2022 at 7:16 pm

        Oh the corporates are allowing leave for gender transition surgery! Well if the corporates think it is good, it must be mustn't it! Nothing to see here! Wonderful! Stunning and brave!

        At least if these people are in the work force, they are likely adults and may be more able to give informed consent.

        I hope the corporates realize how many of these surgeries go wrong and how many of the patients need follow up surgeries? They may find that these employees cost them a lot in time off.

        But this aside Ad you and others on this site never seem to be able to face up to gender ideologies sinister influence on children.

        • Sabine 2.3.3.1
          11 October 2022 at 8:30 pm

          I read at least one account from a detransitioner that is taking her insurance to court as they paid for her double masectomy on grounds of 'gender affirmation' and thus now she again needs 'gender affirmation' this time to get back the tits that were sliced of previously in the name of gender woo and the golden cash cow that must be fed with fresh meat daily.

        • Anker 2.3.4.1
          11 October 2022 at 8:30 pm

          Incognito of course banks lead the way. This is corporate virtual signalling at its height.

          • Incognito 2.3.4.1.1
            11 October 2022 at 8:42 pm

            I don’t mind virtual signalling at all, but I hadn’t heard the dog whistle 😉

            Of course, you were fully aware of banks leading the way in this, but I wasn’t. It must be tough competing in a very competitive industry and in a tight labour market, don’t you think?

            • Anker 2.3.4.1.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 8:55 pm

              I think we are veering off topic now if you are rasing difficulty competiting in a tight labour market……..I no very little about that.

              What I do know is that gender surgery is very problematic, even when adults have it. Many complications (I posted a link early on this thread about voice surgery (has a medical name, that I can't think of off hand). Very high rates of complications.

              Also latest Sweedish survey shows that tragically people who have gender surgery are not doing well at all at 10 year follow up (can find the link if required).

              The trouble with virtue signalling is that it is often done without being fully informed as part of a trendy group think. So not necessarily helpful

            • Molly 2.3.4.1.1.2
              11 October 2022 at 9:36 pm

              Incognito, if you don't have any concerns about the medical transitioning of children, just put it out there. Then you can advise what convinced you, and what evidence you have looked at.

              My impression is that those who redirect the conversation do so because they have no basis to challenge what is presented, and yet feel confident enough to assume their contributions are of value.

              • Incognito …
                11 October 2022 at 9:47 pm

                As you can see from the comment numbering in this nested thread, I was replying to Ad’s comment @ 2.3. Seems to me that you want to re-direct my comments into a different direction, again. Feel free to ignore any comments that are of no value to you; no one is stopping you from having the convos that you want with likeminded others – this is the beauty of TS.

                • Molly …
                  11 October 2022 at 10:16 pm

                  sigh

                  The beauty of TS is also that you can query someone's contribution.

                  Both you and Ad seem to think that your contributions to this thread are valuable to this specific conversation in some way. I don't.

                  "Feel free to ignore any comments that are of no value to you; no one is stopping you from having the convos that you want with likeminded others – this is the beauty of TS."

                  There is also an ugliness in not addressing the concerns regarding irreversible treatments for children, but oh… don't worry, the banks approve.

                  • Incognito …
                    12 October 2022 at 2:21 pm

                    The beauty of free speech in a free society is that people can agree to disagree and cannot be forced, coerced, or pressured to take any position on any moral-ethical issue or even think about it, if they don’t want to. You can query judge away as much as you like and ignore any PoV or comment that you don’t like; this is your prerogative too.

                    Your reasoning reeks of either you’re with us or you’re against us. Before you jump to really absurd assumptions about what I think, stating what banks and other corporates do or not do is neither approving nor disapproving. At most, I was pointing to a piece of information that I personally wasn’t aware of and HT to Ad for helping me find this tiny piece.

  3. Adrian Thornton 3
    11 October 2022 at 8:56 am

    It is a world gone crazy when the only sane politician in US politics turns out to be Donald Trump…but then it turns out that the Imperialist war Hawks on both the Right and more importantly the Left(?) seem quite OK in risking total annihilation to maintain Western (ie; white) world hegemony……

    • Peter 3.1
      11 October 2022 at 10:19 am

      It is indeed a world gone crazy when a tiny snippet of one comment made from a pool of hundreds of thousands of comments from this person, deems him the "only sane politician in US politics."

      It is indeed a crazy world if I'm expected to believe that the only politician in the US to say "War is bad," or "This could end in a world war," is Trump.

    • bwaghorn 3.2
      11 October 2022 at 10:31 am

      Dose the bronze buffoon enlighten us on how putin will react to the demand to negotiate?

    • Jenny are we there yet 3.3
      11 October 2022 at 10:03 pm

      Adrian Thornton

      11 October 2022 at 8:56 am

      It is a world gone crazy when the only sane politician in US politics turns out to be Donald Trump…

      Sez the only sane person on the internet.

  4. arkie 4
    11 October 2022 at 9:48 am

    Example of the difference between Labour and the Greens:

    https://twitter.com/NZGreens/status/1579571692862865408

    Labour needs to stop being subservient to lobbying from supporters of the status quo. Action on climate change will not happen without the Greens.

  5. Muttonbird 5
    11 October 2022 at 11:07 am

    The suggestion that those complaining about the price of vegetables simply grow their own carries with it a whiff of moral judgement: that if you can’t afford vegetables you should grow them and if you don’t, well, that’s on you.

    I find this immensely troubling.

    It suggests that when it comes to such basic and fundamental an item as fresh vegetables, the wealthier have unfettered access. The poor, on the other hand, can only eat vegetables if they produce their own.

    Read that again. The poor can only eat vegetables if they produce their own.

    I'd add that despite record high grocery prices, cost savings by growing in a suburban garden, even if one is available, are negligible unless you are already well established, and have plenty of time and experience.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-drink/300707036/we-cant-garden-our-way-out-of-a-costofliving-crisis-and-nor-should-we-have-to

    • tc 5.1
      11 October 2022 at 11:35 am

      You also have to have the right type of soil, lucky you if you're on the old volcanic soils most aren't.

      It's far from cheap once you factor in the time, water which you pay for, materials such as netting to protect crops etc etc with no guarantee of success.

    • satty 5.2
      11 October 2022 at 11:40 am

      Find it hard to understand why we don't introduce a lower GST on fresh food.

      Germany has a standard GST rate of 19%, but a lower GST rate of 7% for food, books, culture etc.

      • Poission 5.2.1
        11 October 2022 at 11:50 am

        German food inflation is nearly twice that of NZ,it is worse in the Netherlands,and will continue with its desire to replace foodland for bioenergy.

        • satty 5.2.1.1
          11 October 2022 at 12:03 pm

          I can't see the link between GST on food and food inflation (in Germany). As far as I remember Germany always had a reduced GST rate on food (and other products I mentioned above).

          In my opinion, the food price inflation in Europe is mainly linked to the significant increase in energy costs (petrol and natural gas => machinery, greenhouses and artificial fertiliser. I remember one book pointed out we "eat fossil fuels", not literally). Oh, and I never really understood how biofuels will ever be able to solve anything on the gigantic scale required…

          • Poission 5.2.1.1.1
            11 October 2022 at 12:13 pm

            So there is no correlation on gst on food then.

            • satty 5.2.1.1.1.1
              11 October 2022 at 2:37 pm
              • There's no correlation between GST on food and recent food price inflation
              • There might be a correlation between GST on food and food price
    • Radical Alternative 5.3
      11 October 2022 at 12:00 pm

      As someone who used to work at Kings Plant Barn, convincing people that growing your own food is a good way to save money is one of the greatest scams ever pulled. That being said, it would be cool to see the government implement some sort of urban gardening scheme.

      • Ad 5.3.1
        11 October 2022 at 5:58 pm

        +100. And all power to Kings Plant Barn for at least keeping us fools in contact with nature.

        Urban park conversion is a policy matter for local councils not central government.

  6. Molly 6
    11 October 2022 at 11:30 am

    For those who have abandoned any and all understanding of child development and maturity: Find your basic common sense and start applying it.

    "Affirming healthcare" is a sub-standard unethical indefensible response to ANY person, but particularly heinous when delivered to children.

    If you are starting to think… maybe I need to look into this?… I have bookmarked this episode from the excellent podcast series:

    https://gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/90-tomboy-at-tavistock-ellies-desistance-story

    Ellie was a gender nonconforming 90s kid in the UK. She became a patient of what came to be the Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS) at Tavistock. She was seen at the time by Dr. DiCeglie, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, and the GIDS founder. Ellie describes her psychological treatment with him and her decision, early on in life, that medicalization simply was not an option. She tells us about her family life and coming to terms with being gay in her teens. Ellie is now married to her wife and living happily. But she also talks about gender dysphoria being something she, and many lesbians, simply learn to live with.

    What is interesting, is that there is archived BBC footage from her time at the Tavistock.

    With "affirming healthcare" her life would likely be markedly different:

    https://youtu.be/zRU8TtOqGSA

    • Visubversa 6.1
      11 October 2022 at 2:27 pm

      Funny how this so called "gender affirming care" always involves altering the primary and secondary sex characteristics. Gender idealogues maintain that sex and gender are different, that gender is in the mind, and sex is in the body. Then they try and change the body to match the mind with chemical castration of children and young people, and sterilizing and mutilating surgeries with very high "complication" rates. The results are sterile and anorgasmic human beings who have even more mental problems after surgery than they did before.

      Interestingly, many of the proponents of this medical pathway are adults who will never have such surgery themselves.

      • Molly 6.1.1
        11 October 2022 at 2:45 pm

        "Interestingly, many of the proponents of this medical pathway are adults who will never have such surgery themselves."

        This. So transparent to those who are watching who retain basic safeguarding skills.

  7. joe90 7
    11 October 2022 at 2:15 pm

    Poor buggers. It's happening again.

    The one with the rifle shoots! One out of two gets a rifle. The one without follows him! When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots!

    – Enemy at the Gates

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1579520443232681984

    • Incognito 8.1
      11 October 2022 at 5:33 pm

      Stuart Smith has finally found a PONS (pothole of National significance). National’s plan to fix it has 2 bullet points:

      1. Build a bridge over it, without cycle lane or walkway
      2. Build a tunnel underneath it, without train track
      • Nic the NZer 8.1.1
        11 October 2022 at 6:17 pm

        Damn shame, when the report is released its actual location will be redacted.

        • Shanreagh 8.1.1.1
          12 October 2022 at 9:05 am

          Who says the report will be released? 'Trust me, having a KC look at where this pothole is all you need. I am satisfied'.

      • Mac1 8.1.2
        13 October 2022 at 9:02 pm

        Do you want to know where the pothole is? I know. I have taken photos of it.

        What would it mean if the pothole in question was, say, in the middle of a provincial town?

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