Over rising concerns about the economic harm to the business community and the economy. The government ignored the health experts not to lower the Level 4 Alert in Auckland.
Now they are ignoring them again.
Government not considering alert level 4 'circuit-breaker lockdown' despite calls from health experts
1 hour ago
Jamie Ensor
All politics is pressure. Politicaal pressure from the business community on the government to surrender to the virus, must be countered by pressure from below not to.
If you think public health should be a priority before private wealth.
Most other countries never tried elimination, Alan. those that did, such as New South Wales and Victoria, botched the job by leaving it early, with damage to both lives and their economy.
Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months, we will eliminate it. Great. As soon as we open up, Covid will return. You cant live under a rock forever hiding from something that you are in fear of.
Actually, it would be less than a couple of months, with full compliance.
But if it was 24 months, most of the covid strains would be much more mild, because they ones that kill their hosts die sooner. E.g. the 19818 flu waves by the mid-twenties.
Virus isn't so bad, see, we can come out from under our rock and live with it…[voice of reason – probably best we don't even try living with it] ..right up until you're treed in a rondavel squeaking help, help meee…
Not necessarily, as current vaccines dont sterlize the virus there is a possibility a more potent and resistant strain that is able to overcome vaccination emerges to prominence in which case all bets are off.
You and I can bet that will happen (and I only bet on things that I evaluate as near sure things – ie I seldom gamble for money at all). The only real issue is the timing.
Natural immunity is also pretty well impossible with this particular virus apart from the longer term prospect. Eventually it kills off or causes every one who gets it to not breed well. There are known verified cases where people have caught variants or even the same variant of covid-19 after having a previous infection with covid-19 – as well as the same kinds of breakthrough infections with fully vaccinated.
There is a reason why the bat populations where the disease originated have the probably the most ferocious immune systems we know of in mammals. Long-term selection from this disease and other socially endemic diseases being endemic in their populations.
Ultimately we need to manage to get a sterilising vaccine or treatment because otherwise this disease will probably eventually crush our health systems. The incidence and time extent of long-covid is too high.
I suspect that repeated exposures are going to wear down the peoples immune systems. If covid-19 doesn't get you then something else will.
The reason that our more complex health systems work (and our life expectancy in the west keep rising) is because we have managed to reduce the wear and tear of diseases on the immune systems with public health measures over the past 150 years. At present I'm expecting that to reverse for most of this decade with this disease.
Well, it's not so much a case of "overcoming" vaccination as random mutations eventually tweak the main protein most vaccines currently help the immune system to target. Like the flu vaccine does – why some of use get new flu shots every year: it's not just because the previous year's vax has worn off somehow, it's because while the Northern Hemisphere was having their flu season some new varients emerged.
But the thing about more harmful variants is that they get spotted sooner (because people get seriously ill rather than not noticing a sniffle), and are prioritised for research/medications/vaccines more highly. So they still have less of a reproductive advantage than essentially harmless variants.
Fair call to a degree, but they're not complete morons, either. Most of them know that being the only ones on the street increases the odds of getting stopped. Some of the more stupid ones demonstrated that.
But also, even without perfect compliance with L4 the problem isn't so much the gangs as the possibility of wholesale rejection of controls, like in Melbourne. An indeterminate purgatory of half the population in lockdown and the other half listening to infantile opinionators in the media or religious frauds.
Someone at the dirty end of criminal activity is not getting essential worker status for that. "Covid compliance" is an even broader brush for stops and arrests (and the concomitant vehicle search for officer safety) than breach of the peace or traffic infringement. It's literally an excuse to arrest anyone in public if they're not essential workers or with a reasonable excuse to be out.
So assuming that they're okay with disease ravaging their community and families, the leaders of all criminal enterprises would need to ask themselves whether a limited hiatus on earning is more cost-effective than actively losing earnings and distribution staff to law enforcement. Hell, the government could allow suspected leaders of such organisations to travel into restricted areas in order to deliver that message personally. Along with other leaders of disaffected and socially alienated communities (in the general idea that maybe community leaders have more credibility with the members of those communities than might be the domain of official government representatives).
…Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months,….
24 months?
Surely you joke, Jester.
24 months is a hysterical over exageration of the time needed to achieve elimination.
The Level 4 Lockdown in Auckland almost killed off the Delta covid varient, before it was lifted early before it had finished its job.
Another one, possibly two more weeks, would have eliminated it completely.
And we would be back in Level 1 by now.
This TVNZ timeline graph shows the whole sorry tale.
The Level 4 Lockdown was put in place on 17 August. Daily infections reached a peak of 86 before plateuing around August 30 and then started dropping sharply about the 1st of September. As the Level 4 Alert started to take effect, daily cases kept dropping to a low of 22 cases on 21 September. Against expert public health advice. On 21 September the Level 4 Alert was dropped to Level 3, despite 22 daily cases, two of which could not be linked to any known cluster. Eight days later the infections started rising again. And haven't stopped rising.
Yes 24 months is an exageration, but a Level 4 lockdown for say 12 weeks then, would eliminate. But guess what? Covid would still come back and pop up again.
I hope they don't do any more level 4 lockdowns as by December everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be. But I do hope they have increased ICU capacity at hospitals.
90% vaccination of the eligible population is a good practical achievable target to aim for, 95% vaccination of the total population is what is needed.
Maybe when the vaccine is approved for use on over 5s we could get near that figure.
Even then, more ICU beds will be needed.
We are at war and our government are surrendering.
I don't think the government are surrendering. I think they realise that people will only be locked down for so long. Eventually life has to go on. I'm in Auckland and many people are already over it. People at Okahu Bay and Mission Bay have been at level 1 for the last few weeks anyway. This step one of level 3 where you can have a picnic with another bubble, as the govt know, people have been doing this for weeks already.
And as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
…..as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
"There is no such thing as bad soldiers, only bad generals" Napoleon
Now I am sure that Napoleon's army had the usual minority of drunkards, deserters, and trouble makers of any army. Of course there is such a thing as bad soldiers. The point that Napoleon was making is that he or his generals could not put the blame for their failures on this minority.
The minority of rule breakers including the gangs and sex workers rough sleepers, drug addicts, and the other marginalised communities make for a handy scapegoat. But they are not the major source of the current uncontrolled spread of the virus.
If enough people do it, just like vaccination, Lockdown creates herd immunity. Just like vaccination, if enough people do it, Lockdown protects the minority of people who don't.
To make my point, one of the most egregious cases of rule breaking and the one you alluded to, was the case of the two sex workers that traveled through Northland on false essential worker credentials, and then refused to tell the authorities who they had met with or where they had been. Surely this must be a worst case of rule breaking by two individuals. But this rare and unusual case, did not result in a mass spreader event and Northland has just been downgraded to Level 2.
So where should we look for the failure of this country's covid response?
When the Level 4 alert for Auckland was lowered. 200,000 workers who had been isolatiing at home were ordered back to work.
There is your daily mass spreader event right there.
The real cause of the current uncontrolled rise in covid invections is revealed in the TVNZ timeline graph, above. The timeline clearly shows the dramatic rise in cases following the Level 4 lockdown being lifted.
Just as you say, Jester. It has always been level one for the minority of rule breakers like the gangs. But despite the actions of this tiny minority, the virus was being crushed under Level 4.
From a high of 83 around about August 30 followed by a dramatic drop, to single figures around about September 22, followed by a rise, beginning eight days, after the lifting of the Level 4 lockdown, (the incubation period of the virus). An upward rise in cases that has continued.
The change in government policy not the gangs is the cause of the current rise.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever? When / if we finally get to level 2 there will probably be a further rise in cases but wont matter as enough people vaccinated so mostly recover at home. I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%? And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever?….
Again you exagerate and fear monger to oppose proven measures of stopping preventable illness and deaths. This fearmongering and exageration prevents us debating the real matters that are in the balance to be decided.
The health experts and epidemic modelers have called on the government to apply a "circuit breaker" Level 4 lockdown to stop the rate of infection reaching into to triple figures.
So far the government have refused to heed this health advice.
"I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%?"Jester
Part of the answer to this question, Jester, has been supplied by the Auckland District Health board, who have stated that at 90% vaccination rate they are preparing the hospitals for 6 deaths and 33 hospitalisations a week.
The real question Jester, that is in the balance to be decided, is how much preventable death and illness will we accept in return, for business as usual?
The government has not made it explicit, but it seems that 6 preventable deaths and 33 preventable hospital admissions is acceptable to them as the price for fully opening up the economy and to hell with kindness.
"And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday." Jester
From the graph above, you can see that we were very close to nation wide elimination under the Level 4 Auckland Alert. If the government had not lost its nerve. we could be at Level 1 now. Not a certainty, but the sharp downward heading trend did seem to show that. Of course we will never no for sure now.
Certainty was lost when government abandoned the Alert Level System and replaced it with the Three Step Roadmap to reopen the borders.
As you can clearly see on the graph, Stage One and no doubt the other steps to come on this Roadmap, are to be applied even as infections continue to climb. But reality has turned the Roadmap into a vague and confusing mess, with little certainty of anything. Only the first step or stage has been completed, with no idea of when the others steps will occur, or even if the Roadmap still exists.
But at least we are getting down to the real reasons for the refusal to continue the Elimination Strategy, which is the economic hardship on business and small proprietors. Nothing to do with gangs or sex workers or the minority of rule breakers. Which are just handy scapegoats for our failure to prioritise lives and public health over business interests.
Don't get me wrong Jester, the destruction and turmoil and economic hardship and pain being visited on small business and households from lockdown is very real and a concern to me. But this paiin is not being shared equally. The big banks and financiers have had no lockdown.
If we really wanted to eliminate the virus and return us to Level 1, we would impose a Level 4 Lockdown with a full rent and mortgage moratorium to help households and business ride out the hardship.
This meaure is not unheard of. A moratorium on mortgages was implemented in 1914 due to the crisis brought about by the World War. And in 1931 a mortgage and rent moratorium was brought in due to the crisis of the World Economic Depression.
…..by 1931, it was clear that further intervention was necessary to prevent widespread foreclosures and mortgagee sales…..
….Although mortgage relief was frequently discussed at some length by
contemporary commentators, and by some historians in the 1950s and
1960s, it has been relegated to a few lines at most in more recent works.’
…..This Act also extended to lessees [renters] the same protection
that had been granted to mortgagors,
The modification of mortgage conditions was not new in New Zealand. A ‘mortgage moratorium’ had been imposed as a war measure in 1914,
Obviously the government does not think that the current Covid crisis is as severe as these past crises, or they would have implemented the same emergency measures.
You asked me Jester;
"So after all that waffle, what is your solution?"
That's my solution. Nationwide Level 4 Lockdown with full rent and mortgage moratorium until the virus is eliminated.
Afterall is said and done, it is not like the big Aussie owned banks, which take $3.5b out of our economy and off shore, every year, can't afford it.
P.S. You may think this crisis is not severe enough to warrant such extreme measures, but the people who sicken and end up in hospital and families of those directly affected may disagree.
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long) a time period including rent moratoriums etc. and we end up with say 14 days of no cases! Awesome. Then we open up and a few weeks later the virus comes back again and we start getting cases again. Then what? Another lockdown?
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long)….
….Then what? Another lockdown?
Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved.
It's this interim period we are talking about, where it has been decided to let the virus rip even while the population has not yet reached the target 90% vaccination level.
(The end of lockdown could be the carrot/whip to encourage vaccination, unfortunately this carrot and whip has been ruled out, ensureing that vaccination will not be as high as it possibly could have been, if the government had stayed the course.)
I admire your honesty in that you admit to this trade off in preventable deaths and illness has been made for the good of the economy.
We are not seeing this honesty being admitted in many places.
Early on worksites were identified by the Prime Minister as the source of spread of the Virus even under Level 4, despite this, infections kept dropping. That is until the Level 4 Alert was lifted on the 21st of September and 200,000 Auckland workers returned to their workplaces to mingle and spread the virus. One week later the infections which had been on a steep decline, began the upward trend, which hasn't stopped. On October 4, despite the continueing rise in infections, restrictions were loosened again.
Level 4 can can compensate for the minority of rule breakers. The looser Level 3 cannot.
Honesty means admitting that it was government policy that decided to let the virus rip for the good of the economy at the cost of public health.
Unfortunately your honesty in admitting this fact, is not being followed by our policy makers who are embarked on major frenzy of finger pointing and blamestorming the tiny minority of rule breakers for the current outbreak due to their change in policy direction.
This dishonesty does not inspire confidence in our leadership. Or even the certainty that business crave.
Two millionaires horse breeders who broke lockdown to fly to Queensland, did not lead to an outbreak. Two sex workers who toured the North, did not lead to an outbreak. A wild party on the North Shore attended by 50 people, looks unlikely to lead to an outbreak.
The government has embarked on a policy of letting the virus rip.
But rather than accept responsibility, the screaming headlines for the next couple of weeks, as hospital admissions rise and deaths start occuring, will be concentrated on the rule breakers as the cause.
The honest thing to do would be admit to the policy change behind the rising infections and put it to the public for their support.
Dishonesty does not engender confidence.
"There is no such thing a bad soldiers only bad generals" Napoleon
As the health experts have said, kissing goodbye to level 4 means kissing goodbye to level 1.
So say goodbye to a Covid Free Christtmas and summer.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever.
"Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved."
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want. They can be fully vaccinated by December the 1st if they get vaccinated now. But the rest of us (the vaxinated majority) cant be held back forever waiting.
Personally, if it was up to me, I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever…..
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want…..
….I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
'Devil take the hindmost', (as the saying goes). Eh Jester?
Weka puts it best:
Covid and kindness
Written By: WEKA – Date published:10:16 am, October 20th, 2021
I’m still seeing a fair number of people advocating for ‘opening up’ on the basis of either individual responsibility (‘I’m vaccinated’), and/or fuck the lazy/selfish bastards (‘never mind 90% vax rate, we can’t wait’)….
As well as trashing our international reputation for protecting the welfare and health of our most vulnerable. There is another serious flaw in your plan to sacrifice others' lives and health, just so you can open up the country by November.
The fact is, that at the very best, vaccines are only 90% effective. Vaccination approachs 100% effectiveness in stopping the spread of a viral infection, the more people get vaccinated. The so called 'herd immunity' does not just protect the unvaccinated, it also protects the fully vaccinated by filling in for that 10% failure rate.
That is how vaccination works. It is how we eliminated polio.
What this means, is that below 90% vaccination coverage, even some of the fully vaccinated can still catch the virus, and sicken and possibly even die.
Who knows, it could even by you, or one of your loved ones.
So purely on a selfish basis it is in your interest to get as many others vaccinated as possible before opening up.
Colin Powell was fully vaccinated, but he still died from COVID complications. How rare is that?
Adrianna Rodriguez – USA TODAY, Oct. 18, 2021
….the former secretary of state and retired four-star general was fully vaccinated against the disease….
….The CDC also reports that as of Oct. 12, 7,178 deaths among vaccinated people; 85% of the deaths are in people 65 and older….
….Research suggests that may be happening among other populations, too. A study in August from the CDC showed vaccine effectiveness decreased among health care workers who were fully vaccinated since the time the delta coronavirus variant became widespread.
I don’t think much of your plan to sacrifice the old and also put at risk our health care workers who have sacrificed so much for us during this pandemic.
And what for? So the Aussie owned banks can keep screwing this country into the ground even during a pandemic?
P.S. So far, no country has yet been able to achieve herd immunity levels of vaccination against Covid-19. New Zealand could be the first. I think it is a worthy goal to attempt. We were the first country to show that elimination was possible to world acclaim. Another world first in the global fight against Covid-19, would do wonders for this country's international reputation. And on a purely personal note, my father is 86, and fully vaccinated. My father still enjoys life. I wouldn't want him to die of a fully preventable disease because of your selfishness.
It sounds like we will simply have to agree to disagree then. Locking down a town / city /country indefinitely simply wont work.
It would be interesting to know how many people have died due to the lockdowns. This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
To which I pointed out that without achieving herd immunity some of the fully vaccinated will also sicken and possibly even die.
Now, to fit your narrative that we must reopen by November, you claimed that Colin Powel didn't die of Covid -19, but died of cancer.
Yes, Colin Powel did have cancer, but it wasn't a fatal kind.
Myeloma is more commonly seen in people over 60, said Dr. Don Benson, hematologist-oncologist at The Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center.
Roughly 35,000 cases of myeloma are reported in the U.S. each year. Although it’s considered an incurable cancer, most patients don’t die from the disease itself.
……This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
All statistics of a drop in background deaths from all causes during lockdown, disprove this Lie. Even deaths from suicide declined under Level 4 Lockdown.
The fact is that lockdown stops our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, preventing people who could otherwise be treated of curable illness and accidents getting a bed, because all the beds, especially, critical care beds are filled up with covid patients.
To argue the opposite against the facts is to go against all reason.
Frankly Jester. I am disappointed. From arguing that we need to balance the loss of lives against the economic harm of Lockdown, which is a fair point, and an honest position to debate, you have reverted to lieing.
But I can understand why you might feel motivated to dissemble. Because when faced with a pandemic, the main reason for opposing lockdown, is the prioritising of making money over people's lives and health, is a motive repulsive to most people, possibly if you dared admit to it, repulsive to your self.
Re the govt's pivot toward North Korea in response to Key's prompt, will we see him leaping excitedly about in front of the news camera yelling "Told ya so!! Got it right! State compulsion!"?
Folks here yesterday pointing out that it's actually state coercion are technically correct – but will those on the receiving end feel the difference? I'm inclined to doubt it.
So will the govt now open an embassy in NK? Send an ambassador to tell the wee fat guy "Hey, we do rockets, just like you! We do state control of citizens too! Any other bright ideas?" His response: "Cool, yes! Take out bad cabinet minsters with anti-aircraft gun! Sends message to other ministers: do as told!"
Bit late to apply retrospectively to Twyford & Clark I guess, but you can see how the PM would open the following cabinet meeting: "Right, the North Korean option. Here's where we're going with this…"
I never even finished reading that. He shows up the opinionist critics as complete tossers so well by about halfway thru I didn’t have any desire to be further depressed by reading on about how ill-informed & ridiculous the perennial critics like Soper & HDPA, & Mike Hosking & Kate Hawkesby are.
I hope everybody can find the time to read that piece. It is the most comprehensive round-up of the idiotic reckons which infect the "debate". Grim but essential reading. Worth bookmarking.
We already had made those observations on this site. Especially damning reviews of Soper and Duplicity A. Hoskins and his wife are entitled wind bags, whose write ups are back and forth to reflect the vacillations of a stirrer
Covid's greatest secret weapon is it creates no visible marks.
Maybe we'll have to wait until a covid mutation of concern (bound to happen) that gives people covid fingers, or covid nose rather than covid toe – something people can see, like a body covered in pustules, before the opinionists take a public health response of elimination seriously.
Then they can helpfully rage if the elimination is too slow.
No, he's saying that the people with those opinions don't agree with their own opinions, depending on the toss of a coin that day. The opinions aren't based on a good-faith analysis of the evidence, but only on the requirement to have opinions.
It's only "long-winded" because there are so many examples to cite.
Great critique of NZ's 5th column ‘opinionists’ – the inconvenience this pandemic has caused Hosking/Hawkesby/Soper/HDP/Roughan/Yardley/Bridge et al. is heartbreaking.
Yeah that graph says it all, eh? Presuming it's accurate (recalling the old adage re lies, damn lies, & statistics). Doesn't give the right any leverage at all. And all that hoo-hah for months about opening the border to get back to business as usual got their credibility destroyed by Delta. It's like they want to pretend the contagion ain't real. But I suppose you could argue it's just the old ruling class social darwinist stance getting a re-run. Collateral damage is tolerable, I bet they think, assuming it won't happen to them…
… a protest group is promising to hold a "strike" in Auckland against what they see as an imposition on teachers' freedoms. It's not known how many of the group are teachers. (my bold)
If they sourced a vaccine for those whose bodies cannot handle the glycol lipids in the vaccine then 10 % more people could be vaccinated. Might mean we save a few teachers !
I had thought they had done this. A couple of immuno compromised people I know have had and will have access to different vaccines on an invitation basis on specific days for vaccination. One I had heard had said her day was later this month.
Of course this depends on being noted by your GP and the person working with their GP/MOH and not just a fanciful "I am intolerant to…….. ie I have done my own self diagnosis, " or I don't want to have that…..'
Vaccine mandates are the fastest way we now have to stabilise the superiority of scientific truth against social media truth, and simultaneously keep us all safe.
In a fast-arriving future in which Auckland goes into hundreds of cases per day, one can see an international passport's biometric scan information also gets used (it always starts with mere convenience) by AirNZ, Kiwirail Interislander, and Police as a means to enforce travel between New Zealand regions. Or even moreso, a medical i.d. stronger than an app, with remarkably low privacy settings for state database interoperability.
That kind of all-travel biometric could take in all kinds of herbal proclivities.
Having just returned from a bar after 2 different but beautiful Belgian triples, I understand your point. Some would still die with a bottle of Speights in their cold dead hand. What is familiar, What is trusted. What is liked. Not necessarily what is good.
nah, it'll be the millenium bug all over again – we opened up and didn't have the crematoria running overtime, so obviously there was nothing to worry about.
just to clarify, there is a difference between medically exempt, and those having reactions to the vaccine that mainstream medicine doesn't consider relevant to public health but may still be relevant to the individual. Distinct again from people fearful because of anti-vax beliefs. Not a lot of research for the middle group to help make decisions unfortunately.
his position seems reasonable to me. Essentially he wants a much tighter border between Auckland and Northland so Northland people can focus on the vaccination programme in a calmer manner rather than the panic that's happening now. All of that to protect people most vulnerable to a covid infection.
I don't think Harawira's lost the plot. I think he's being quite mild.
A woman and her mate travelled to Northland when they should not have. From what has been published one of them at least conned the system. At least one of them had covid.
Neither of them were forthcoming with the details of their trip. One of them it seems went out of her way to avoid being questioned and still is not fully co-operative.
Ignore the fact that they may have come to Northland deposited Covid, departed and apparently had no compunction about what they could have left behind. Ignore all the direct health angles.
At the moment 194,000 Northlanders are living their lives according to the dictates of the actions of the two women.
Hone Harawira and the region's leaders are being very measured.
Oh? Swearing? Using the fucking word for reporters is being measured, is it?
From someone who’s a former MP & a well-known (& generally well-liked by some, including me) public figure?
Do you want Jacinda Ardern to use the fucking word in interviews about the Auckland women cheating their way into Northland too? Or Chris Hipkins? Or Ashleigh Bloomfield? Or Kelvin Davis?
Would that be “measured” of them. Take your time to think before replying about the others. Because if you don’t approve of them using profanities, I’m interested in why it doesn’t bother you when Hone Harawira does, but it would bother you if THEY did.
By your reckoning Harawira's lost the plot because he used the particular word.
The Herald quoted him as saying, "We need to slam the f****** door on Auckland. Let's focus on us and healing ourselves."
In August the Herald carried a story of the Ombudsman saying a college should apologise to a schoolboy who'd been expelled for swearing at a teacher.
According to the report the boy told the teacher to "f*** off."
Of course the boy didn't say "f*** off." He said "Fuck off." Everyone knows that. Why didn't the Herald print it like that? We can handle seeing it written without it being written fully? Bizarre. If the word is so offensive they should not have used it at all. The Herald obviously considered quoting Harawira verbatim was acceptable. If they didn't they wouldn't have used it.
The Ombudsman didn't think it was the end of the world when it was used directly at someone I an aggressive tone.
fucking | ˈfʌkɪŋ | adjective [attributive] & adverb [as submodifier] vulgar slang used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.
Harawira used the word in that sense. His anger was directed at the situation not the individuals who deserve much forceful language directed at them. How angry is he? Enough to voice it in a way which gets attention. A pity the attention is on a word not the reason for the anger, whether it is justified and whether the situation he addresses could have been avoided.
Because Jacinda Ardern doesn't express herself like that means she doesn’t care? That's silly. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. Public figures address reporters as they wish.
Over aeons politicians have fraternised with journalists. Relationships mean a politician describing another as an 'arsehole' isn't going to be published like that. Not seeing or hearing it it doesn't mean that florid language hasn't been used.
The Herald thinks the word is offensive enough to not use it fully, to sort of pretend to use it but not so offensive as to not use it at all.
God was taking a morning saunter through Heaven looking windswept and interesting as is his want when he comes across this sorry looking new arrival and says to him “ What the fuck are you doing here? “ the recently worldly resident replies “ I died of Covid “ , “ Why weren’t you vaccinated “ says God , “ Because I prayed to you to send me help and it didn’t come “ ,” You dumb shit, I sent you Ashley, and Michael and Shaun, the one with the funny hair and Jacinda, now fuck off back to Purgatory to have a think about it and get vacced while you’re about it, and don’t think you’re getting back in here until then” .
Shaw warned us that he would not have anything organised for Glasgow, because of consultation blablabla.
But by the time he comes back mid-November he then runs a higher risk of not getting the figures and costs into the Treasury Budget cycle for 2022 to implement the Big Whole Of Government plan.
That would be a thing, both operationally and politically.
I was a bit scared to watch it at first because of the rat.
I have a blackbird friend who for the third year running has made the nest in a shrub outside my kitchen window and I found a little tiny bird outside on the lawn and no doubt a rat has been. I will put a good nature trap there. My neighbour has an anything goes compost bin and I often get her rats exploring. Not that I don't have them but I poison and my compost bins have got wirenetting barriers.
Yes, it's a contentious decision. They are cute as all get out, teeny little NZ long-tailed bats – but they're definitely NOT birds. Bad call to include them, imo.
I thought that this met the bill for that competition. Actually I was quite surprised when I Googled this to find that the competition still exists. I was expecting to have to say something like. "But they used to. Back in the 1960's etc etc"
“But many people don’t even know they exist. Maybe that’s how they snuck into the competition under cover of darkness.”
…
Department of Conservation senior ranger Rob Carson-Iles said the long-tailed bat was critically endangered, “the next stop on that continuum is extinction”.
Carson-Iles welcomed the addition of the bat to the previously bird-based competition.
“You can’t protect something you don't know about,’' he said.
“They’re something that’s really special to this area. They’re doing it tough, and they need our assistance to carry on.'’
It's just a PR stunt to draw attention to the 'competition.'
What do you think, next year as a PR thing Hector's dolphins will be on the list?
Petitions seem to be all the go lately, maybe all birds can get one together.
On the positive side I suppose it shows lateral thinking. Favourite for Sportsperson of the Year? Lorde. Favourite for Entertainer of the Year? Margaret Mahy. Butcher of the Year? Israel Adesanya?
I don't see a lot of evidence of your prior support of bats. Do you have any particular reason for denying bats the affirmation they must feel from being included in the competition? In fact – have you even asked them?
Is it worth James Shaw's and by proxy the Greens reputation to be actually presenting this stuff to the public and holding the line that its the right path as far as climate change is concerned?
Would it be better to pull the pin very publicly and say Labour wasnt prepared to do enough and if you want meaningful action on climate you need to vote Green?
The modus operandi of this government is very difficult to pick on that score.
On the one hand it can go big such as with nationalising hospitals. On the other hand when it gets lots of public pressure on a specific item like a cycleway it kills the project.
Most of the time, unless there's an immediate crisis, Ardern only acts when the rest of the country begs her to. It's very awwwwwwwshucks you made me. In those respects Ardern is very similar to her predecessor John Key. Both were outstanding at reforms directly after crises, but day to day just went with the flow.
The huge rural protest was no issue to them electorally, but the fact that it was big and there was no organised countervailing pro-climate protest will quite reasonably be read that the left and the greens are complacent and Ardern can continue to tack deep into the centre. That's certainly how we will be read by other nations in Glasgow.
Yes very much a populist, I think thats why Auckland alert level dropped a touch early. Sadly Labour are a short on people who know how to get shit done. I think this manifests itself when big announcements are made like Kiwibuild, light rail, emergency housing etc and the actual delivery falls over or gets tied in knots.
I honestly believe this is in part due to the emergence of an insular political class who lack in real world experience.
At this rate, it's going to take a few deaths before the Government sees reason on Level 4 (as for compliance – I'd venture that a few deaths would also make certain people remember what we are fighting against).
Michael Bassett writes – I’m not sure that it’s much comfort to anyone to know that the post-Covid surge in violent crimes, gang activity, ram raids, random shootings, thuggery and stabbings is occurring in other countries as well as New Zealand. These days, wagging school, out-of-control welfare and ...
Oliver Hartwich writes – Cast your mind back to mid-December. A new Prime Minister had just been sworn in, the new Government started its 100-day programme, and Christmas was only days away.Amid all the haste, a report landed that would have deserved our attention.I am talking about the ...
TL;DR: An unseasonally early icy blast at the same time as some long-overdue maintenance almost caused Aotearoa-NZ’s electricity system to black out this week. That’s because a quadropoly of gentailers1 have prioritised paying dividends from their rising profits and adding debt over investing in 1.5 GigaWatts of new wind farms ...
Hi,Before we crack into today’s Webworm, I wanted to acknowledge the fact that Israel is pushing into Rafah. Over 100,000 Palestinians are now attempting to flee the one place that was deemed “safe”.Trouble is, the place they’re fleeing to is already destroyed. Total annihilation is the end goal here.“Israel is ...
‘It has been said that figures rule the world. Maybe. I am quite sure that it is figures which show us whether it is being ruled well or badly.’ GoetheI was struck at a recent conference on equity for the elderly, how many presenters implicitly relied upon Statistics New Zealand. ...
Buzz from the BeehiveReporting on defence spending late last year, RNZ said the coalition government will have to make some tough calls this term to help the force address staff shortages and ageing infrastructure. “These are huge, huge amounts of government spending. It’s a significant proportion of the government’s ...
Peter Dunne writes – I am always wary when I hear that the Controller and Auditor-General has commented on or made recommendations to the government about an issue of public policy that does not relate strictly to public expenditure. According to the legislation, the role of the Controller ...
How Labour’s and National’s failure to move beyond neoliberalism has brought NZ to the brink of economic and cultural chaos Chris Trotter writes – TO START LOSING, so soon after you won, requires a special kind of political incompetence. At the heart of this Coalition ...
And why did the Crown not challenge the Tribunal’s jurisdiction? Gary Judd writes – Retired District Court Judge, David Harvey, has posted on his A Halflings View Substack an excellent summary of Justice Isacs’ judgment declining to uphold the witness summons issued by the Waitangi Tribunal ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result?As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and ...
Macklemore isn’t someone I’d usually think about. Sure I liked his big hit from a few years back, everybody did it was catchy and cool with some memorable lines. But if I was going to think of artists who might speak out on political matters or world events, he wouldn’t ...
Another week goes by in the Luxon government’s efforts to roll back the past 70 years of social progress. The school lunches programme is to be downgraded by $107 million, and women need bother their heads no longer about pay equity, let alone expect ACC to provide adequate sexual violence ...
Brrr, the first cold snap of the year. Hope you’re rugged up nice and warm. Here are some stories that caught our eye this week… This Week on Greater Auckland On Monday, we had a post from a new contributor, Connor Sharp, who dug into the public feedback ...
Almost all of the Wellington City Council’s recommended zoning changes to allow many more apartments and townhouses in its inner-suburbs have been approved.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guest on geopolitics, ...
Open access notablesA Global Increase in Nearshore Tropical Cyclone Intensification, Balaguru et al., Earth's Future:Tropical Cyclones (TCs) inflict substantial coastal damages, making it pertinent to understand changing storm characteristics in the important nearshore region. Past work examined several aspects of TCs relevant for impacts in coastal regions. However, ...
Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result? As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and always answered “yes”, with very few ...
Thus far May has followed on from a quiet April in the blogging department, but in fairness, it has been another case of doing what I am supposed to be doing, namely writing original fiction. Plus reading. So don’t worry – I have been productive. But in order to reassure ...
Buzz from the Beehive A new government agency will open for business on July 1 – the Social Investment Agency. As a new standalone central agency effective from 1 July, it will lead the development of social investment across Government, helping ministers understand who they need to invest in, what ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The ...
Alwyn Poole writes – After being elected to Parliament in 2008 the maiden speech of Hipkins was substantially around education policy. He was Labour’s spokesperson for education 2011 – 2017. He was Minister for Education from 2017 until February 2023. This is approximately 88% of the time Labour ...
Eric Crampton writes – A fashion industry group is lobbying for protections. They make the usual arguments and a newer one. None of it makes sense. An industry group says it pumped $7.8 billion into the economy last year – that’s 1.9 percent of New Zealand’s GDP. ...
In December 2006, Fiji's military leader Voreqe Bainimarama overthrew the elected government in a coup. He ruled Fiji for the next 16 years, first as dictator, then as "elected" Prime Minister. But now, he's finally been sent to jail where he belongs. Sadly, this isn't for his real crime of ...
Don't like National's corrupt Muldoonist "fast-track" law? Aotearoa's environmental NGO's - Greenpeace, Forest & Bird, WWF, Coromandel Watchdog, Coal Action Network Aotearoa, Kiwis Against Seabed Mining, and others - have announced a joint march against it in Auckland in June: When: 13:00, 8 June, 2024 Where: Aotea Square, Auckland You ...
Seymour describes sushi as too woke for school meals. There are no fish sushi meals recommended by the School Lunches programme. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Government will swap out hot meals for packaged sandwiches to save $107 million on school lunches for poor kids. MSD has pulled ...
I don't mind stealin' bread from the mouths of decadenceBut I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled, yeahBut it's on the table, the fire's cookin'And they're farmin' babies, while slaves are workin'The blood is on the table and the mouths are chokin'But I'm goin' hungry, yeahSome ...
The Ardern Government’s chickens came home to roost yesterday with the news that the country is short of natural gas. In 2018, Labour banned offshore petroleum exploration, and industry executives say that the attendant loss of confidence by the industry impacted overall investment in onshore gas fields. Energy Resources Minister ...
Hi,If you’ve been digging through the newly launched Webworm store (orders are being dispatched worldwide as I type!) you’ll have noticed the best model we had was Calvin.This is Calvin.Calvin.Calvin is 7, and is the son of my producer over on Flightless Bird, Rob — aka “Wobby Wob”. Rob also ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Climate change is everywhere. And when something's everywhere it can feel like it's nowhere. So how do we get our heads ...
Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
Today New Zealand First will introduce a Member’s Bill that will protect women’s spaces. The ‘Fair Access to Bathrooms Bill’ will require, primarily in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all new non-domestic publicly accessible buildings provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms. This Bill ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
New Zealand voted in favour of a resolution broadening Palestine’s participation at the United Nations General Assembly overnight, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The resolution enhances the rights of Palestine to participate in the work of the UN General Assembly while stopping short of admitting Palestine as a full ...
Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
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Sign the petition get the government to recommit to Elimination.
NZ Government: Recommit to elimination of COVID-19
https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-recommit-to-elimination-of-covid-19?
Have you not witnessed what has happened in pretty much ever other country around the world Jenny? The horse has bolted, this petition is futile.
We need to eliminate to save people's lives and people's health.
We need to eliminate to save our health system and look after the people who work in it.
We need to eliminate to save our economy.
we need pixies and fairies too, but like elimination, that is not going to happen in the real world
Over rising concerns about the economic harm to the business community and the economy. The government ignored the health experts not to lower the Level 4 Alert in Auckland.
Now they are ignoring them again.
All politics is pressure. Politicaal pressure from the business community on the government to surrender to the virus, must be countered by pressure from below not to.
If you think public health should be a priority before private wealth.
Sign the petition:
https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-recommit-to-elimination-of-covid-19
Most other countries never tried elimination, Alan. those that did, such as New South Wales and Victoria, botched the job by leaving it early, with damage to both lives and their economy.
Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months, we will eliminate it. Great. As soon as we open up, Covid will return. You cant live under a rock forever hiding from something that you are in fear of.
However, treatments that are more effective may well be developed, saving lives, communities and businesses.
Said the hiker about the bear.
Actually, it would be less than a couple of months, with full compliance.
But if it was 24 months, most of the covid strains would be much more mild, because they ones that kill their hosts die sooner. E.g. the 19818 flu waves by the mid-twenties.
https://twitter.com/sunshinechi1/status/1447595536635289606
Is this a veiled threat?
jester/hiker/bear = covid/cameraman/warthog
Good video. Brave man to let a warthog get that close as they are vicious.
But I don't really see what the video has to do with anything?
Brave?
Or did he have an overinflated opinion of his ability to control something that he should have feared?
Virus isn't so bad, see, we can come out from under our rock and live with it…[voice of reason – probably best we don't even try living with it] ..right up until you're treed in a rondavel squeaking help, help meee…
Not necessarily, as current vaccines dont sterlize the virus there is a possibility a more potent and resistant strain that is able to overcome vaccination emerges to prominence in which case all bets are off.
You and I can bet that will happen (and I only bet on things that I evaluate as near sure things – ie I seldom gamble for money at all). The only real issue is the timing.
Natural immunity is also pretty well impossible with this particular virus apart from the longer term prospect. Eventually it kills off or causes every one who gets it to not breed well. There are known verified cases where people have caught variants or even the same variant of covid-19 after having a previous infection with covid-19 – as well as the same kinds of breakthrough infections with fully vaccinated.
There is a reason why the bat populations where the disease originated have the probably the most ferocious immune systems we know of in mammals. Long-term selection from this disease and other socially endemic diseases being endemic in their populations.
Ultimately we need to manage to get a sterilising vaccine or treatment because otherwise this disease will probably eventually crush our health systems. The incidence and time extent of long-covid is too high.
I suspect that repeated exposures are going to wear down the peoples immune systems. If covid-19 doesn't get you then something else will.
The reason that our more complex health systems work (and our life expectancy in the west keep rising) is because we have managed to reduce the wear and tear of diseases on the immune systems with public health measures over the past 150 years. At present I'm expecting that to reverse for most of this decade with this disease.
That's sobering. I wish NZ was talking about this more, far too many people think we're going back to normal next year.
What are your thoughts on the Auckland outbreak and what should be done at the moment, in the context of the bigger and longer picture above?
Well, it's not so much a case of "overcoming" vaccination as random mutations eventually tweak the main protein most vaccines currently help the immune system to target. Like the flu vaccine does – why some of use get new flu shots every year: it's not just because the previous year's vax has worn off somehow, it's because while the Northern Hemisphere was having their flu season some new varients emerged.
But the thing about more harmful variants is that they get spotted sooner (because people get seriously ill rather than not noticing a sniffle), and are prioritised for research/medications/vaccines more highly. So they still have less of a reproductive advantage than essentially harmless variants.
Probably one more week in level 4 would have been enough; now it may take another 3 weeks to achieve it. Worth it for level 1 or 2 by Christmas.
Yes but how would you get full compliance from the gangs? It makes no difference to them whether its level 1,2,3 or 4.
Fair call to a degree, but they're not complete morons, either. Most of them know that being the only ones on the street increases the odds of getting stopped. Some of the more stupid ones demonstrated that.
But also, even without perfect compliance with L4 the problem isn't so much the gangs as the possibility of wholesale rejection of controls, like in Melbourne. An indeterminate purgatory of half the population in lockdown and the other half listening to infantile opinionators in the media or religious frauds.
Someone at the dirty end of criminal activity is not getting essential worker status for that. "Covid compliance" is an even broader brush for stops and arrests (and the concomitant vehicle search for officer safety) than breach of the peace or traffic infringement. It's literally an excuse to arrest anyone in public if they're not essential workers or with a reasonable excuse to be out.
So assuming that they're okay with disease ravaging their community and families, the leaders of all criminal enterprises would need to ask themselves whether a limited hiatus on earning is more cost-effective than actively losing earnings and distribution staff to law enforcement. Hell, the government could allow suspected leaders of such organisations to travel into restricted areas in order to deliver that message personally. Along with other leaders of disaffected and socially alienated communities (in the general idea that maybe community leaders have more credibility with the members of those communities than might be the domain of official government representatives).
24 months?
Surely you joke, Jester.
24 months is a hysterical over exageration of the time needed to achieve elimination.
The Level 4 Lockdown in Auckland almost killed off the Delta covid varient, before it was lifted early before it had finished its job.
Another one, possibly two more weeks, would have eliminated it completely.
And we would be back in Level 1 by now.
This TVNZ timeline graph shows the whole sorry tale.
The Level 4 Lockdown was put in place on 17 August. Daily infections reached a peak of 86 before plateuing around August 30 and then started dropping sharply about the 1st of September. As the Level 4 Alert started to take effect, daily cases kept dropping to a low of 22 cases on 21 September. Against expert public health advice. On 21 September the Level 4 Alert was dropped to Level 3, despite 22 daily cases, two of which could not be linked to any known cluster. Eight days later the infections started rising again. And haven't stopped rising.
The above photo of the TVNZ timeline graph doesn't quite capture the full awfulness of the government's retreat from elimination.
After lowering the Level 4 Alert to Level 3 and numbers started rising, the government loosened restrictions in Auckland even futher.
See photo in link below.
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
Yes 24 months is an exageration, but a Level 4 lockdown for say 12 weeks then, would eliminate. But guess what? Covid would still come back and pop up again.
I hope they don't do any more level 4 lockdowns as by December everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be. But I do hope they have increased ICU capacity at hospitals.
90% vaccination of the eligible population is a good practical achievable target to aim for, 95% vaccination of the total population is what is needed.
Maybe when the vaccine is approved for use on over 5s we could get near that figure.
Even then, more ICU beds will be needed.
We are at war and our government are surrendering.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126671440/covid19-virus-will-sweep-through-auckland-after-level-3-loosening-modeller-warns
I don't think the government are surrendering. I think they realise that people will only be locked down for so long. Eventually life has to go on. I'm in Auckland and many people are already over it. People at Okahu Bay and Mission Bay have been at level 1 for the last few weeks anyway. This step one of level 3 where you can have a picnic with another bubble, as the govt know, people have been doing this for weeks already.
And as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
"There is no such thing as bad soldiers, only bad generals" Napoleon
Now I am sure that Napoleon's army had the usual minority of drunkards, deserters, and trouble makers of any army. Of course there is such a thing as bad soldiers. The point that Napoleon was making is that he or his generals could not put the blame for their failures on this minority.
The minority of rule breakers including the gangs and sex workers rough sleepers, drug addicts, and the other marginalised communities make for a handy scapegoat. But they are not the major source of the current uncontrolled spread of the virus.
If enough people do it, just like vaccination, Lockdown creates herd immunity. Just like vaccination, if enough people do it, Lockdown protects the minority of people who don't.
To make my point, one of the most egregious cases of rule breaking and the one you alluded to, was the case of the two sex workers that traveled through Northland on false essential worker credentials, and then refused to tell the authorities who they had met with or where they had been. Surely this must be a worst case of rule breaking by two individuals. But this rare and unusual case, did not result in a mass spreader event and Northland has just been downgraded to Level 2.
So where should we look for the failure of this country's covid response?
When the Level 4 alert for Auckland was lowered. 200,000 workers who had been isolatiing at home were ordered back to work.
There is your daily mass spreader event right there.
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
The real cause of the current uncontrolled rise in covid invections is revealed in the TVNZ timeline graph, above. The timeline clearly shows the dramatic rise in cases following the Level 4 lockdown being lifted.
Just as you say, Jester. It has always been level one for the minority of rule breakers like the gangs. But despite the actions of this tiny minority, the virus was being crushed under Level 4.
From a high of 83 around about August 30 followed by a dramatic drop, to single figures around about September 22, followed by a rise, beginning eight days, after the lifting of the Level 4 lockdown, (the incubation period of the virus). An upward rise in cases that has continued.
The change in government policy not the gangs is the cause of the current rise.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever? When / if we finally get to level 2 there will probably be a further rise in cases but wont matter as enough people vaccinated so mostly recover at home. I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%? And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday.
Again you exagerate and fear monger to oppose proven measures of stopping preventable illness and deaths. This fearmongering and exageration prevents us debating the real matters that are in the balance to be decided.
The health experts and epidemic modelers have called on the government to apply a "circuit breaker" Level 4 lockdown to stop the rate of infection reaching into to triple figures.
So far the government have refused to heed this health advice.
"I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%?" Jester
Part of the answer to this question, Jester, has been supplied by the Auckland District Health board, who have stated that at 90% vaccination rate they are preparing the hospitals for 6 deaths and 33 hospitalisations a week.
The real question Jester, that is in the balance to be decided, is how much preventable death and illness will we accept in return, for business as usual?
The government has not made it explicit, but it seems that 6 preventable deaths and 33 preventable hospital admissions is acceptable to them as the price for fully opening up the economy and to hell with kindness.
"And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday." Jester
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
From the graph above, you can see that we were very close to nation wide elimination under the Level 4 Auckland Alert. If the government had not lost its nerve. we could be at Level 1 now. Not a certainty, but the sharp downward heading trend did seem to show that. Of course we will never no for sure now.
Certainty was lost when government abandoned the Alert Level System and replaced it with the Three Step Roadmap to reopen the borders.
As you can clearly see on the graph, Stage One and no doubt the other steps to come on this Roadmap, are to be applied even as infections continue to climb. But reality has turned the Roadmap into a vague and confusing mess, with little certainty of anything. Only the first step or stage has been completed, with no idea of when the others steps will occur, or even if the Roadmap still exists.
But at least we are getting down to the real reasons for the refusal to continue the Elimination Strategy, which is the economic hardship on business and small proprietors. Nothing to do with gangs or sex workers or the minority of rule breakers. Which are just handy scapegoats for our failure to prioritise lives and public health over business interests.
Don't get me wrong Jester, the destruction and turmoil and economic hardship and pain being visited on small business and households from lockdown is very real and a concern to me. But this paiin is not being shared equally. The big banks and financiers have had no lockdown.
If we really wanted to eliminate the virus and return us to Level 1, we would impose a Level 4 Lockdown with a full rent and mortgage moratorium to help households and business ride out the hardship.
This meaure is not unheard of. A moratorium on mortgages was implemented in 1914 due to the crisis brought about by the World War. And in 1931 a mortgage and rent moratorium was brought in due to the crisis of the World Economic Depression.
Obviously the government does not think that the current Covid crisis is as severe as these past crises, or they would have implemented the same emergency measures.
You asked me Jester;
"So after all that waffle, what is your solution?"
That's my solution. Nationwide Level 4 Lockdown with full rent and mortgage moratorium until the virus is eliminated.
Afterall is said and done, it is not like the big Aussie owned banks, which take $3.5b out of our economy and off shore, every year, can't afford it.
P.S. You may think this crisis is not severe enough to warrant such extreme measures, but the people who sicken and end up in hospital and families of those directly affected may disagree.
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long) a time period including rent moratoriums etc. and we end up with say 14 days of no cases! Awesome. Then we open up and a few weeks later the virus comes back again and we start getting cases again. Then what? Another lockdown?
Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved.
It's this interim period we are talking about, where it has been decided to let the virus rip even while the population has not yet reached the target 90% vaccination level.
(The end of lockdown could be the carrot/whip to encourage vaccination, unfortunately this carrot and whip has been ruled out, ensureing that vaccination will not be as high as it possibly could have been, if the government had stayed the course.)
I admire your honesty in that you admit to this trade off in preventable deaths and illness has been made for the good of the economy.
We are not seeing this honesty being admitted in many places.
Early on worksites were identified by the Prime Minister as the source of spread of the Virus even under Level 4, despite this, infections kept dropping. That is until the Level 4 Alert was lifted on the 21st of September and 200,000 Auckland workers returned to their workplaces to mingle and spread the virus. One week later the infections which had been on a steep decline, began the upward trend, which hasn't stopped. On October 4, despite the continueing rise in infections, restrictions were loosened again.
Level 4 can can compensate for the minority of rule breakers. The looser Level 3 cannot.
Honesty means admitting that it was government policy that decided to let the virus rip for the good of the economy at the cost of public health.
Unfortunately your honesty in admitting this fact, is not being followed by our policy makers who are embarked on major frenzy of finger pointing and blamestorming the tiny minority of rule breakers for the current outbreak due to their change in policy direction.
This dishonesty does not inspire confidence in our leadership. Or even the certainty that business crave.
Two millionaires horse breeders who broke lockdown to fly to Queensland, did not lead to an outbreak. Two sex workers who toured the North, did not lead to an outbreak. A wild party on the North Shore attended by 50 people, looks unlikely to lead to an outbreak.
The government has embarked on a policy of letting the virus rip.
But rather than accept responsibility, the screaming headlines for the next couple of weeks, as hospital admissions rise and deaths start occuring, will be concentrated on the rule breakers as the cause.
The honest thing to do would be admit to the policy change behind the rising infections and put it to the public for their support.
Dishonesty does not engender confidence.
"There is no such thing a bad soldiers only bad generals" Napoleon
As the health experts have said, kissing goodbye to level 4 means kissing goodbye to level 1.
So say goodbye to a Covid Free Christtmas and summer.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever.
"Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved."
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want. They can be fully vaccinated by December the 1st if they get vaccinated now. But the rest of us (the vaxinated majority) cant be held back forever waiting.
Personally, if it was up to me, I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
'Devil take the hindmost', (as the saying goes). Eh Jester?
Weka puts it best:
As well as trashing our international reputation for protecting the welfare and health of our most vulnerable. There is another serious flaw in your plan to sacrifice others' lives and health, just so you can open up the country by November.
The fact is, that at the very best, vaccines are only 90% effective. Vaccination approachs 100% effectiveness in stopping the spread of a viral infection, the more people get vaccinated. The so called 'herd immunity' does not just protect the unvaccinated, it also protects the fully vaccinated by filling in for that 10% failure rate.
That is how vaccination works. It is how we eliminated polio.
What this means, is that below 90% vaccination coverage, even some of the fully vaccinated can still catch the virus, and sicken and possibly even die.
Who knows, it could even by you, or one of your loved ones.
So purely on a selfish basis it is in your interest to get as many others vaccinated as possible before opening up.
I don’t think much of your plan to sacrifice the old and also put at risk our health care workers who have sacrificed so much for us during this pandemic.
And what for? So the Aussie owned banks can keep screwing this country into the ground even during a pandemic?
P.S. So far, no country has yet been able to achieve herd immunity levels of vaccination against Covid-19. New Zealand could be the first. I think it is a worthy goal to attempt. We were the first country to show that elimination was possible to world acclaim. Another world first in the global fight against Covid-19, would do wonders for this country's international reputation. And on a purely personal note, my father is 86, and fully vaccinated. My father still enjoys life. I wouldn't want him to die of a fully preventable disease because of your selfishness.
Colin Powell died of cancer.
It sounds like we will simply have to agree to disagree then. Locking down a town / city /country indefinitely simply wont work.
It would be interesting to know how many people have died due to the lockdowns. This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
Really?
You started this thread by falsely claiming that the latest outbreak is the result of the minority of rule breakers.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-10-2021/#comment-1823767
Then you moved on, to say that those that didn't get immunised deserved to sicken and die.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-10-2021/#comment-1826195
To which I pointed out that without achieving herd immunity some of the fully vaccinated will also sicken and possibly even die.
Now, to fit your narrative that we must reopen by November, you claimed that Colin Powel didn't die of Covid -19, but died of cancer.
Yes, Colin Powel did have cancer, but it wasn't a fatal kind.
Another lie is that lockdown has caused more deaths than not locking down.
All statistics of a drop in background deaths from all causes during lockdown, disprove this Lie. Even deaths from suicide declined under Level 4 Lockdown.
https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/weekly-deaths-declined-nzs-lockdown-we-still-dont-know-exactly-why
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-fewer-suicides-during-lockdown-level-4-chief-coroner/Z6R2IN5LN67LNLYDADTSTNWSIE/
The fact is that lockdown stops our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, preventing people who could otherwise be treated of curable illness and accidents getting a bed, because all the beds, especially, critical care beds are filled up with covid patients.
To argue the opposite against the facts is to go against all reason.
Frankly Jester. I am disappointed. From arguing that we need to balance the loss of lives against the economic harm of Lockdown, which is a fair point, and an honest position to debate, you have reverted to lieing.
But I can understand why you might feel motivated to dissemble. Because when faced with a pandemic, the main reason for opposing lockdown, is the prioritising of making money over people's lives and health, is a motive repulsive to most people, possibly if you dared admit to it, repulsive to your self.
Re the govt's pivot toward North Korea in response to Key's prompt, will we see him leaping excitedly about in front of the news camera yelling "Told ya so!! Got it right! State compulsion!"?
Folks here yesterday pointing out that it's actually state coercion are technically correct – but will those on the receiving end feel the difference? I'm inclined to doubt it.
So will the govt now open an embassy in NK? Send an ambassador to tell the wee fat guy "Hey, we do rockets, just like you! We do state control of citizens too! Any other bright ideas?" His response: "Cool, yes! Take out bad cabinet minsters with anti-aircraft gun! Sends message to other ministers: do as told!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyon_Yong-chol
Bit late to apply retrospectively to Twyford & Clark I guess, but you can see how the PM would open the following cabinet meeting: "Right, the North Korean option. Here's where we're going with this…"
Think it was Key's idea for the telethon type thing as well this weekend.
Thought that was quite funny.
Bit of a side story. But something I found interesting.
Seymour's End of life choice Act comes in, in less than a month.
They have published how much Doctors and other medical staff will get who chose to carry out the procedure.
$1087.20 a time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300428689/assisted-dying-doctors-to-be-paid-1087-to-perform-procedure-starting-next-month
That is interesting.
Disturbing that it is essentially the same as a midwife is paid to deliver a life into this world.
Really?
Wouldn't actually surprise me if that was what they based it on.
On the media's undermining of the public health response to covid.
https://badnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-fifth-columnists
I never even finished reading that. He shows up the opinionist critics as complete tossers so well by about halfway thru I didn’t have any desire to be further depressed by reading on about how ill-informed & ridiculous the perennial critics like Soper & HDPA, & Mike Hosking & Kate Hawkesby are.
Shock jockism at its worst.
I hope everybody can find the time to read that piece. It is the most comprehensive round-up of the idiotic reckons which infect the "debate". Grim but essential reading. Worth bookmarking.
We already had made those observations on this site. Especially damning reviews of Soper and Duplicity A. Hoskins and his wife are entitled wind bags, whose write ups are back and forth to reflect the vacillations of a stirrer
*Hosking. Mike Hosking. Not Hoskins.
When you're slagging somebody off it's the done thing to get their name right.
Isn't that Horeskin?
No, apparently it’s The Hosk, to those in the loop.
Covid's greatest secret weapon is it creates no visible marks.
Maybe we'll have to wait until a covid mutation of concern (bound to happen) that gives people covid fingers, or covid nose rather than covid toe – something people can see, like a body covered in pustules, before the opinionists take a public health response of elimination seriously.
Then they can helpfully rage if the elimination is too slow.
That is one seriously long winded way of someone saying they don't agree with other peoples opinions and only their's is right
No, he's saying that the people with those opinions don't agree with their own opinions, depending on the toss of a coin that day. The opinions aren't based on a good-faith analysis of the evidence, but only on the requirement to have opinions.
It's only "long-winded" because there are so many examples to cite.
First tactic: there's no evidence;
if that is patently false, choose between "yawn" and "explaining is losing".
Great critique of NZ's 5th column ‘opinionists’ – the inconvenience this pandemic has caused Hosking/Hawkesby/Soper/HDP/Roughan/Yardley/Bridge et al. is heartbreaking.
Yeah that graph says it all, eh? Presuming it's accurate (recalling the old adage re lies, damn lies, & statistics). Doesn't give the right any leverage at all. And all that hoo-hah for months about opening the border to get back to business as usual got their credibility destroyed by Delta. It's like they want to pretend the contagion ain't real. But I suppose you could argue it's just the old ruling class social darwinist stance getting a re-run. Collateral damage is tolerable, I bet they think, assuming it won't happen to them…
It's almost as if having a sick population is bad for your wealth…
I see a few teacher have resigned over mandatory vac.
Good that they are out of the classroom.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-schools-out-small-numbers-of-teachers-quit-over-mandated-vaccinations/B4YNDASC2UCJJROPY3WQ42N7VY/
3
They wouldn't be destiny church connected at all would they?
I enjoyed reading this bit:
Every post a winning post for the anti-vaxxers?
Yes thanks I saw that too.
If they sourced a vaccine for those whose bodies cannot handle the glycol lipids in the vaccine then 10 % more people could be vaccinated. Might mean we save a few teachers !
I had thought they had done this. A couple of immuno compromised people I know have had and will have access to different vaccines on an invitation basis on specific days for vaccination. One I had heard had said her day was later this month.
Of course this depends on being noted by your GP and the person working with their GP/MOH and not just a fanciful "I am intolerant to…….. ie I have done my own self diagnosis, " or I don't want to have that…..'
There is much hot air about this.
United Airlines gave its staff of 67,000 an ultimatum re vaccination and by the time the deadline had passed only 320 were unvaccinated.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/30/uniteds-unvaccinated-staff-drops-from-593-to-320-after-company-said-they-would-be-fired.html
Vaccine mandates are the fastest way we now have to stabilise the superiority of scientific truth against social media truth, and simultaneously keep us all safe.
100%
That's elegantly, and ruthlessly, put, Ad. May I borrow it 🙂
Vaccine mandates are also constrained by scientific truth,where as say vaccine breakthrough is higher those with substance use disorders (SUD )
Here it seems those with Cannabis use disorder seem to be at greater risk of breakthrough infection .
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wps.20921
A scientific truth would also allow for an endorsement on the vaccine passport stating that the holder is still a risk,due to cannabis use disorder.
In a fast-arriving future in which Auckland goes into hundreds of cases per day, one can see an international passport's biometric scan information also gets used (it always starts with mere convenience) by AirNZ, Kiwirail Interislander, and Police as a means to enforce travel between New Zealand regions. Or even moreso, a medical i.d. stronger than an app, with remarkably low privacy settings for state database interoperability.
That kind of all-travel biometric could take in all kinds of herbal proclivities.
Utopia!
Yes, for the safety of everyone lets have more mandates from our sole source of truth.
Maybe a newspaper would be useful…
A recent Nobel Peace Prize winner said, "A world without facts means a world without truth and trust." – Maria Ressa 2021
A relative recently said to me:
You can take this KFC drumstick …
Out of my cold dead hand.
Having just returned from a bar after 2 different but beautiful Belgian triples, I understand your point. Some would still die with a bottle of Speights in their cold dead hand. What is familiar, What is trusted. What is liked. Not necessarily what is good.
The proposal seems to be acceptable.
You should have aspiration in your life, but you are not allowed aspiration during vaccination.
nah, it'll be the millenium bug all over again – we opened up and didn't have the crematoria running overtime, so obviously there was nothing to worry about.
Can you link where you got the 10% number from?
There was this article earlier in the week: Covid 19: 'Almost no one' in Australia medically exempt from coronavirus vaccinations – health expert
It mentions that 1 in 100,000 could be allergic (not anywhere close to 1 in 10).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-almost-no-one-in-australia-medically-exempt-from-coronavirus-vaccinations-health-expert/TLNOOEJD2VCUVCAZACHN5HSAZY/
[correct link added – weka]
Self styled I am sure and possibly only a few would actually be immuno compromised or have allergic issues.
Interesting that link has been removed!!!!
My mistake… Look here
Thanks
just to clarify, there is a difference between medically exempt, and those having reactions to the vaccine that mainstream medicine doesn't consider relevant to public health but may still be relevant to the individual. Distinct again from people fearful because of anti-vax beliefs. Not a lot of research for the middle group to help make decisions unfortunately.
Hone Harawira's lost the plot. Doing his rag with the F word again. 🙄
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-northlanders-could-wait-weeks-to-see-alleged-border-breachers-charged/24HP3HT7YRVPA3KFYM64I5MS7A/
his position seems reasonable to me. Essentially he wants a much tighter border between Auckland and Northland so Northland people can focus on the vaccination programme in a calmer manner rather than the panic that's happening now. All of that to protect people most vulnerable to a covid infection.
Hone cares and has vulnerable people to protect. He is fed up with incursions, I agree with you Weka.
So do I, but that shocker of a hot-headed, foul-mouthed temper he sometimes displays leads him into fucking avoidable trouble sometimes.
I don't think Harawira's lost the plot. I think he's being quite mild.
A woman and her mate travelled to Northland when they should not have. From what has been published one of them at least conned the system. At least one of them had covid.
Neither of them were forthcoming with the details of their trip. One of them it seems went out of her way to avoid being questioned and still is not fully co-operative.
Ignore the fact that they may have come to Northland deposited Covid, departed and apparently had no compunction about what they could have left behind. Ignore all the direct health angles.
At the moment 194,000 Northlanders are living their lives according to the dictates of the actions of the two women.
Hone Harawira and the region's leaders are being very measured.
Oh? Swearing? Using the fucking word for reporters is being measured, is it?
From someone who’s a former MP & a well-known (& generally well-liked by some, including me) public figure?
Do you want Jacinda Ardern to use the fucking word in interviews about the Auckland women cheating their way into Northland too? Or Chris Hipkins? Or Ashleigh Bloomfield? Or Kelvin Davis?
Would that be “measured” of them. Take your time to think before replying about the others. Because if you don’t approve of them using profanities, I’m interested in why it doesn’t bother you when Hone Harawira does, but it would bother you if THEY did.
perhaps most of us dont phucking care. dont waste our phucking time by ignoring hone's message.
By your reckoning Harawira's lost the plot because he used the particular word.
The Herald quoted him as saying, "We need to slam the f****** door on Auckland. Let's focus on us and healing ourselves."
In August the Herald carried a story of the Ombudsman saying a college should apologise to a schoolboy who'd been expelled for swearing at a teacher.
According to the report the boy told the teacher to "f*** off."
Of course the boy didn't say "f*** off." He said "Fuck off." Everyone knows that. Why didn't the Herald print it like that? We can handle seeing it written without it being written fully? Bizarre. If the word is so offensive they should not have used it at all. The Herald obviously considered quoting Harawira verbatim was acceptable. If they didn't they wouldn't have used it.
The Ombudsman didn't think it was the end of the world when it was used directly at someone I an aggressive tone.
fucking | ˈfʌkɪŋ | adjective [attributive] & adverb [as submodifier] vulgar slang used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.
Harawira used the word in that sense. His anger was directed at the situation not the individuals who deserve much forceful language directed at them. How angry is he? Enough to voice it in a way which gets attention. A pity the attention is on a word not the reason for the anger, whether it is justified and whether the situation he addresses could have been avoided.
So Jacinda Ardern doesn’t care enuf to swear about it? Is that what you’re saying?
Or are you saying some public figures can swear addressing reporters & it’s not a problem?
Which ones? And which ones shouldn’t?
Because Jacinda Ardern doesn't express herself like that means she doesn’t care? That's silly. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. Public figures address reporters as they wish.
Over aeons politicians have fraternised with journalists. Relationships mean a politician describing another as an 'arsehole' isn't going to be published like that. Not seeing or hearing it it doesn't mean that florid language hasn't been used.
The Herald thinks the word is offensive enough to not use it fully, to sort of pretend to use it but not so offensive as to not use it at all.
Hone diminishes his mana using profanities in public. Everybody does.
That’s why Ardern & the others don’t do it in public.
Thank you.
You may sit back down again. 👍🏼
God was taking a morning saunter through Heaven looking windswept and interesting as is his want when he comes across this sorry looking new arrival and says to him “ What the fuck are you doing here? “ the recently worldly resident replies “ I died of Covid “ , “ Why weren’t you vaccinated “ says God , “ Because I prayed to you to send me help and it didn’t come “ ,” You dumb shit, I sent you Ashley, and Michael and Shaun, the one with the funny hair and Jacinda, now fuck off back to Purgatory to have a think about it and get vacced while you’re about it, and don’t think you’re getting back in here until then” .
Good one 😄
Governments climate policy descending into farce
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126663599/govt-puts-ideas-to-slash-emissions-out-for-feedback–asks-people-business-to-fill-gaps
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pat-baskett-bring-forward-our-net-zero-goal
Shaw warned us that he would not have anything organised for Glasgow, because of consultation blablabla.
But by the time he comes back mid-November he then runs a higher risk of not getting the figures and costs into the Treasury Budget cycle for 2022 to implement the Big Whole Of Government plan.
That would be a thing, both operationally and politically.
.
Ella & Elvis: The Movie. Ella learns to lock up when she goes out – watch out for the rat at 3.07…
Cute Geeza
'Hey wait up gorgeous' says Elvis to Ella was it?
'I wonder if my washing is wet'
Fabulous Gezza.
I was a bit scared to watch it at first because of the rat.
I have a blackbird friend who for the third year running has made the nest in a shrub outside my kitchen window and I found a little tiny bird outside on the lawn and no doubt a rat has been. I will put a good nature trap there. My neighbour has an anything goes compost bin and I often get her rats exploring. Not that I don't have them but I poison and my compost bins have got wirenetting barriers.
I want to know why bats have been included in the Bird of the Year competition.
Bats are not birds. Bats should not be included. Though of course I support them.
Yes, it's a contentious decision. They are cute as all get out, teeny little NZ long-tailed bats – but they're definitely NOT birds. Bad call to include them, imo.
Yeah, bad call.
Poor bats though, it's not like NZ would ever have a Mammal of the Year competition.
Mammal of the year?
I thought that this met the bill for that competition. Actually I was quite surprised when I Googled this to find that the competition still exists. I was expecting to have to say something like. "But they used to. Back in the 1960's etc etc"
https://www.teaomaori.news/northland-beauty-wins-miss-new-zealand-2020
Aye, the decision to include bats "is expected to ruffle a few feathers"
It's just a PR stunt to draw attention to the 'competition.'
What do you think, next year as a PR thing Hector's dolphins will be on the list?
Petitions seem to be all the go lately, maybe all birds can get one together.
On the positive side I suppose it shows lateral thinking. Favourite for Sportsperson of the Year? Lorde. Favourite for Entertainer of the Year? Margaret Mahy. Butcher of the Year? Israel Adesanya?
Nope I had nothing to with this
Oh I don't know.. It's got P R all over it. And you only have to look at them to see that they are puckish little rogues.
They are very cute
How did you get that large image (at the URL) to fit inside the Comment box, Macro?
Every time I’ve tried to use the image tool to post an image here it’s posted outsized, hasn’t all fitted in the Comment space.
The trick is to post and then to edit after the original url for the image add
width="450"
👌🏼 Thanks Macro. 👍🏼
I have a candidate for New Zealander of the Year.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126657633/a-very-brave-and-special-person-tributes-pour-in-for-wellington-teen-who-raised-more-than-550000-for-cancer-research
Maybe because they're our only mammal and have no-one else to play with? Perhaps we should be inclusive and change the name of the competition.
I don't see a lot of evidence of your prior support of bats. Do you have any particular reason for denying bats the affirmation they must feel from being included in the competition? In fact – have you even asked them?
Oh here we go with the usual BERP propaganda.
Buzz Extension and Resistance Piece? What's trumpet playing got to do with it?
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126663599/govt-puts-ideas-to-slash-emissions-out-for-feedback
This is seriously underwhelming and lacking in ambition… nuclear free moment my arse.
I doubt anything James Shaw has to say will be taken seriously in Glasgow…
very depressing. I still reckon it's going to take a major grass roots effort to get teh govt to act.
Is it worth James Shaw's and by proxy the Greens reputation to be actually presenting this stuff to the public and holding the line that its the right path as far as climate change is concerned?
Would it be better to pull the pin very publicly and say Labour wasnt prepared to do enough and if you want meaningful action on climate you need to vote Green?
James has too much riding on this to quit before Glasgow, and he's signed the Greens up to this response as Minister.
But if ever there were an issue that could splinter the Greens, it would be Shaw's agreed response to climate change.
The modus operandi of this government is very difficult to pick on that score.
On the one hand it can go big such as with nationalising hospitals. On the other hand when it gets lots of public pressure on a specific item like a cycleway it kills the project.
Most of the time, unless there's an immediate crisis, Ardern only acts when the rest of the country begs her to. It's very awwwwwwwshucks you made me. In those respects Ardern is very similar to her predecessor John Key. Both were outstanding at reforms directly after crises, but day to day just went with the flow.
The huge rural protest was no issue to them electorally, but the fact that it was big and there was no organised countervailing pro-climate protest will quite reasonably be read that the left and the greens are complacent and Ardern can continue to tack deep into the centre. That's certainly how we will be read by other nations in Glasgow.
Yes very much a populist, I think thats why Auckland alert level dropped a touch early. Sadly Labour are a short on people who know how to get shit done. I think this manifests itself when big announcements are made like Kiwibuild, light rail, emergency housing etc and the actual delivery falls over or gets tied in knots.
I honestly believe this is in part due to the emergence of an insular political class who lack in real world experience.
At this rate, it's going to take a few deaths before the Government sees reason on Level 4 (as for compliance – I'd venture that a few deaths would also make certain people remember what we are fighting against).