Open mike 14/08/2024

87 comments on “Open mike 14/08/2024 ”

• Comment on post

1. ianmac 1

   14 August 2024 at 7:50 am

   Well that is good to see a critique of the Hobson's Pledge "ad" in the Herald. The "ad" seemed deliberately aiming to foster anti-Maori division.

   Hobson’s Pledge are entitled to a 'robust expression of opinion' but are not entitled to mislead and deceive consumers and, in our view, The Herald should have known, or investigated, whether the information was misleading or deceptive before the advertisement was published.

   First, the advertisement calls for the “restoration” of the foreshore to public ownership. The foreshore has never historically been in public ownership: it is not owned by anybody, except for the areas of the foreshore that are currently in (mainly non-Māori) private ownership.

   Second, the ad implies, on the front page, that “customary marine titles” give iwi, hapū and/or whānau the right to own parts of the foreshore…….

   https://subslack.substack.com/p/just-giving-this-a-push-along?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=40073&post_id=147652367&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=25honw&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

   Reply
   • Incognito 1.1

     14 August 2024 at 8:51 am

     Also discussed here: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/525042/nzme-to-review-advertising-policies-after-hobson-s-pledge-ad

     I think NZH is hiding behind its advertising policy. Unless an AI bot made the decision to place the add, it was a human who did it.

     Reply
     • Bearded Git 1.1.1

       14 August 2024 at 9:48 am

       Exactly Incog…they knew what they were doing. But none of us should forget that the Herald has shown clear support for the Far Right.

       Reply
       • tWig 1.1.1.1

         14 August 2024 at 11:09 am

         I recall NZH ramping up on crime reporting in the six months before an election in the eighties, aligned with a Law'NOrder campaign by the Nats. It's been pushing that agenda for decades.

         Reply
       • Incognito 1.1.1.2

         14 August 2024 at 12:07 pm

         Never has it been truer that money speaks volumes.

         Reply
2. Anne 2

   14 August 2024 at 10:24 am

   An accountant who is out of work is trying to find an accountancy job. He may live in a part of the country where such jobs are scarce. He is currently on a benefit. He has been told his benefit is to be halved because he failed to attend a meeting last Friday. He has been through all his emails and was never informed of it in the first place.

   "Please get in touch even if you don't have a good reason. We'll talk you through the things you need to do to get your full payment. You can also ask us to review this decision."

   Oh, that’s nice of them. (sarc.)

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350377819/jobseekers-already-being-warned-benefit-cuts

   Reply
3. joe90 3

   14 August 2024 at 10:34 am

   Pricks.

   /

   Teachers at state schools could be required to fill in for charter schools and share resources with them, granted the request to do so is “reasonable,” under current proposals from Associate Education Minister David Seymour.

   […]

   “Charter schools will be publicly funded but will be operated by sponsors holding a contract with the Crown.”

   On April 2, Cabinet agreed on plans to share resources between schools – approving charter schools to use their own curriculum if standards are “at least equivalent” to students at state schools.

   The issue of shared resources is being put forward “so that students continue to have access to shared resources and are not disadvantaged by attending a charter school”. If approved, state school workers “may not refuse” requirements from their employer to provide services to a charter school or to students enrolled at one, provided it’s lawful and “reasonable”.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/inside-the-goverments-plans-to-implement-charter-schools-and-convert-35-state-schools-timeframes-and-advice-revealed/3VJBM32COVABLHZBHIAMQMF3LU/ ( https://archive.li/QoxxN)

   Reply
   • gsays 3.1

     14 August 2024 at 10:39 am

     The precedent is already set with private hospitals dependent on the public system to make profits be viable.

     Reply
     • Tiger Mountain 3.1.1

       14 August 2024 at 12:48 pm

       Charters are all about leveraging and bludging on public assets by for profit operators. A gift from the Atlas Network, and theft from previous generations of citizens and taxpayers.

       And a major union busting attempt to undermine Education Unions NZEI and PPTA which stood up well against Hekia Parata’s National Standards and original charters. The institutional knowledge may not be there now from newer teachers to mount a strong campaign but hopefully this will be resisted.

       Reply
4. James Simpson 4

   14 August 2024 at 10:47 am

   Does anyone have any suggestions we to where we migrate at the end of the month? Are there any other blogs or sites like this in New Zealand?

   Reply
   • Barfly 4.1

     14 August 2024 at 10:58 am

     Eh? Wot?

     Reply
     • francesca 4.1.1

       14 August 2024 at 11:07 am

       LPrent has decided to close down the site

       Reply
       • Tiger Mountain 4.1.1.1

         14 August 2024 at 1:10 pm

         Really?…I missed that memo…don’t blame LP at all if that transpires as much as a number of people would miss the site.

         There are few more entitled people than those that don’t pay a cent to the upkeep of an online presence and then whinge about the rules of engagement. I have read The Standard and put the odd comment on almost since it started.

         Reply
         • lprent 4.1.1.1.1

           14 August 2024 at 4:36 pm

           Yep, and we have agreed to disagree many times as the barbs after they had been placed and the furore diminished.

           Reply
           • Rolling-on-Gravel 4.1.1.1.1.1

             14 August 2024 at 4:57 pm

             Is this true, Lprent? You're closing down the site? That's a damn shame 🙁

             Reply
       • Grey Area 4.1.1.2

         14 August 2024 at 5:49 pm

         How do you know this and others don't?

         Reply
         • francesca 4.1.1.2.1

           14 August 2024 at 8:55 pm

           sorry Grey for the delay

           Over on the Gender Olympics thread is where LPrent announced it

           Reply
   • gsays 4.2

     14 August 2024 at 11:09 am

     If you can get past the bombast and ignore the comments there is The Daily Blog.

     Reply
     • francesca 4.2.1

       14 August 2024 at 11:36 am

       They do have really good guest bloggers like John Minto, Murray Horton, Susan st John,Ian Powell.

       But not so much serious long form commentary from commenters as here.

       There's not the intemperate aggression and somewhat unhinged abuse from moderators either.

       Reply
     • Mike the Lefty 4.2.2

       14 August 2024 at 2:24 pm

       Nah.

       No room for reasoned debate on TDB. Mostly fanatics and trolls. I gave up on it a couple of years ago.

       Reply
   • Grey Area 4.3

     14 August 2024 at 5:48 pm

     How do you know this? What end of the month?

     Reply
5. Barfly 5

   14 August 2024 at 11:13 am

   Bugger! Maybe forming a Sub-Reddit like "LeftInNewZealand" (suggested name) may be viable I have no idea if there are costs associated with that – I believe moderators on reddit are unpaid. Just spit balling here….

   Reply
   • tWig 5.1

     14 August 2024 at 11:40 am

     r/newzealand is more consistently leftie than The Standard, I reckon.

     Reply
   • That_guy 5.2

     14 August 2024 at 11:43 am

     Lprent is shutting down the site because he is uncomfortable with gender-critical points of view and the debates that ensue. Lprent: feel free to correct me if I have mischaracterised your position. For reference, these points of view include:

     • men don't belong in women's sports, especially combat sports
     • it's homophobic to tell gay kids they are broken and need to be fixed with irreversible and expensive and experimental and profitable medical interventions
     • it's not progressive to redefine a marginalised group without the consent of that marginalised group

     Apparently these POV are so problematic and evil that lprent does not want to deal with the arguments that ensue.

     This is relevant to your comment, because Reddit is notorious for banning exactly the same points of view. Entire subreddits have been deleted.

     So, it might actually work, because important and controversial topics would just not be discussed. So we could all sit around agreeing with each other about how shit Luxon is and how scary the climate crisis is. And we could all sink into the warm pillow of bland agreement on issues we all agree with.

     I don't see the point though.

     [lprent: I don’t see the point of lazy sanctimonious self-appointed busybodies misrepresenting me with misinformation. But hey, that is your thing isn’t it.

     There is literally nothing in your statement that is not misinformation, playing the victim, and denigrating the lawful decisions of others. What I keep asking for is something concrete that can be debated. Not misinformation bullshit. Things that can actually be made into legislation, regulation, or policy. None of that ever appears. Just whinging and trading misinformation is pointless and that is all I ever seem to see on this topic.

     As usual for for a busybody, you don’t suggest anything useful like a feasible course of action. It appears that your only active action you ever do is to just finger your small and shrivelled ego by denigrating others to make yourself feel bigger. Characteristic of busybody.

     Banned. ]

     Reply
     • Descendant Of Smith 5.2.1

       14 August 2024 at 12:07 pm

       You're such an arse.

       As a long time user I'll be sad to see the site go. I've come across such a varied and knowledgeable range of people on here over the last 10 years or so, including Lynn, that has enriched my life and knowledge.

       A place where poor working class people had a voice. People who did not elsewhere.

       There's been plenty of robust debate and right wing trolling and disagreement. Lots of tangental stuff as well about growing forests.

       It feels like a small group of people have used the site to be toxic. It isn't like the issues aren't important and they could have discussion it just feels it was their way or no way.

       If you don't see the point then just go. Take you negativity towards people who have been here, many for a long time, and go spread it somewhere else. You clearly have no love for The Standard in any way shape or form. Many of us do.

       Reply
       • Mountain Tui 5.2.1.1

         14 August 2024 at 3:42 pm

         Nice comment. And like Barfly, I avoid the topic in general – mostly because I don't understand enough about the topic to reliably converse, but also I can't agree to a pile on to a people who are choosing to exercise a choice and already demonized by far too many. That feels like an unfair and irresponsible thing to do but as always it's a YMMV thing.

         Reply
       • Rolling-on-Gravel 5.2.1.2

         14 August 2024 at 5:22 pm

         I'll miss this site for sure even though in recent times I've been frustrated at the displays of horrible politics often put forth about a minority that hasn't really done anything to merit that level of vitriol or dark mutterings.

         I'm sorry that I've been so angry about being on The Standard nor wanting to be on it sometimes. It's one thing to say you're worried about how children may be affected by certain gender-related issues so these children can be well-served and properly helped, yet it's another to relentlessly pile on whatever's happening with that minority of people in terms of unearned skepticism.

         At times, it felt suffocating to be around that sort of politics. It felt so hardgoing to read all that resentment and anxiety about such a small minority that really hasn't affected you in any sense.

         It has personally affected my mood due to my experiences of being a non-binary adult person which meant reading such stuff is something I should never have subjected myself to doing.

         Anyway, my relationship with the Standard was as a long-time reader. I think I have been reading for over a decade until I recently joined due to my fears about the coalition.

         It's been real, y'all.

         Reply
     • Barfly 5.2.2

       14 August 2024 at 12:37 pm

       I try to avoid gender critical like the bloody plague

       Reply
       • roblogic 5.2.2.1

         14 August 2024 at 5:57 pm

         It's one of several issues used by elites and their propaganda organs to divide the people. (Others include race and vaccine paranoia).

         It's bait and sometimes I have engaged when I probably shouldn't have.

         Solidarity is more important.

         Reply
       • Rolling-on-Gravel 5.2.2.2

         14 August 2024 at 8:54 pm

         Same – I dislike gender critical ideology immensely.

         Reply
     • lprent 5.2.3

       14 August 2024 at 12:40 pm

       Moderator note.

       Reply
   • Incognito 5.3

     14 August 2024 at 12:06 pm

     Everybody on here is unpaid; it’s a Labour of love until the love runs out.

     Reply
   • lprent 5.4

     14 August 2024 at 3:17 pm

     That is easy enough to do. However as someone just noted to me, they are not only unpaid but they also

     In Reddit, mods lock the thread and mass delete. You could always delete BTW.

     My response was

     I don’t like to just delete. It tends to stifle all conversation. We will ban, sometime remove actual legally offensive text with [deleted]. But we ban, and ban with cause [lprent: you are banned because… ] because it is more effective longer term if people come back after a ban knowing why they got banned.

     Reply
     • Mountain Tui 5.4.1

       14 August 2024 at 3:38 pm

       And would add – depends on the moderator team – but in my experience on r/newzealand (the main NZ subreddit) – they will lock threads, and from what I hear, ban people for dissent, and just for being annoying or provocative – in their eyes.

       Reply
       • tWig 5.4.1.1

         14 August 2024 at 5:37 pm

         Just read at the top of the thread about lprent calling it a day. This had been a great place to visit and to pick up snippets of context that miss the news. Plus the quality of the posts has been excellent.

         There is a huge amount of behind-the-scenes work with a site like this. It's a big thanks from me for those workers, for providing this playground of ideas.

         Reply
6. tWig 6

   14 August 2024 at 11:38 am

   For a snigger: Musk cartoon at the Guardian.

   Reply
7. tWig 7

   14 August 2024 at 11:53 am

   And another teeheehee: the United Auto Workers union in the US has filed charges against Trump and Musk. It is illegal in the US to threaten to fire workers for striking. Trump congratulated Musk on his anti-union stance, including firing strikers, in their highly-publicised chat yesterday.

   “When we say Trump is a scab, this is what we mean. When we say Trump stands against everything our union stands for, this is what we mean,”

   “Donald Trump will always side against workers standing up for themselves, and he will always side with billionaires like Elon Musk said Fain. “Both Trump and Musk want working-class people to sit down and shut up, and they laugh about it openly. It’s disgusting, illegal and totally predictable from these two clowns.”

   Reply
8. Jimmy 8

   14 August 2024 at 2:06 pm

   Orr has cut the OCR by 0.25%.

   More good news for people with mortgages.

   Reply
   • James Simpson 8.1

     14 August 2024 at 2:28 pm

     And business overdrafts/loans.

     Very good news. Fingers crossed this triggers a recovery

     Reply
     • Bearded Git 8.1.1

       14 August 2024 at 3:52 pm

       It will take more than a 0.25% cut in lending rates. This government has engineered a depressed economy.

       It is now common knowledge that many builders are now short of work. The halcyon days of record building consents under Labour are long gone.

       Like the proverbial oil tanker, it takes a long time to turn this around. Maybe by talking the economy down the Coalition of Cuts has shot itself in the foot?

       Reply
       • James Simpson 8.1.1.1

         14 August 2024 at 4:19 pm

         Its amazing how people can bring politics into any statement. The OCR has been at 5.5% since May 2023. 5 months before the election. That has been the main reason for the state of the economy as households and businesses have shut their wallets to counter higher interest rates.

         There is plenty to hit this government over the head about, but it would be disingenuous to suggest that they engineered a depressed economy when it was depressed well before they came to power due in main to the OCR being set high, to counter high inflation.

         Reply
       • Cricklewood 8.1.1.2

         14 August 2024 at 8:02 pm

         Shorts an understatement its turning into a bloodbath worse than gfc now.

         Reply
   • Mountain Tui 8.2

     14 August 2024 at 3:39 pm

     What about savers? It's interesting how dependent society and this economy has become on record low rates. It wasn't like this for a long time, yet people seem to have forgotten and assume the key is to keep rates as low as possible.

     Reply
     • James Simpson 8.2.1

       14 August 2024 at 4:49 pm

       That was before the property market exploded and people borrowed at low rates to service 7 figure bank loans.

       I agree our economy now seem to be dependent on historically low interest rates.

       Reply
9. ianmac 9

   14 August 2024 at 2:19 pm

   Very saddened to read that Iprent is going to close down the site. The site is a valuable meeting place for ideas and recording the issues that matter. As an elderly person it is accessible and reasonably free of nasty opinions. I will miss it.

   And hope that there is a reprieve???

   Reply
   • mickysavage 9.1

     14 August 2024 at 2:33 pm

     Hold that thought. I would also hate to see it go. Am working through some options.

     Reply
     • Mountain Tui 9.1.1

       14 August 2024 at 3:40 pm

       Keep us posted. While I've only recently discovered The Standard, I've found the quality of people and comments to be a small gem.

       Reply
       • Descendant Of Smith 9.1.1.1

         14 August 2024 at 4:25 pm

         I accidently discovered it while doing family tree research. A relative was involved in producing the original paper based printed Standard. Found it, enjoyed it and stayed.

         Reply
       • emc 9.1.1.2

         14 August 2024 at 6:04 pm

         I've been reading every day since I found this site via a commenter on The Daily Blog a few months ago. All these years and I didn't know about it. The Standard the best I've seen, I really appreciate all the great commentary here, I've loved it. I haven't commented as am not confident to do so, but wanted to put in my 10c worth today about keeping it afloat – please keep it going somehow Micky! I would also pay a small sub. Thank you to all those who have made it what it is, it must be a big job to moderate

         Reply
     • Patricia Bremner 9.1.2

       14 August 2024 at 4:26 pm

       A great big Thank You to those who have come on here with a Left view, and an open heart. In Key’s days while awaiting a hip operation, I had many a support from people here. I think we have all become a little shattered by events, and age. I will miss this venue. Go well Iprent, "we never know what we've got till it is gone" Hope you can come up with something Micky.

       Reply
       • hetzer 9.1.2.1

         14 August 2024 at 5:08 pm

         Loathe your politics Patricia, but i know from your posts you are a good and well meaning person. I hope you stay healthy and well . Fight the good fight as you see it.

         Reply
       • Rolling-on-Gravel 9.1.2.2

         14 August 2024 at 5:25 pm

         I appreciate you truly, Patricia

         You've been a true light in the landscape of the Standard for a very long time.

         Reply
     • Tiger Mountain 9.1.3

       14 August 2024 at 4:32 pm

       How about some modest advertising and pay someone to keep the server going…

       I’d do a small sub rather than see The Standard end. But then, maybe blogs have a lifespan and it is thoughtful to let them go when the original movers and shakers have had enough…

       Reply
     • Macro 9.1.4

       14 August 2024 at 4:38 pm

       Fingers Crossed.

       Reply
   • Beverly 9.2

     14 August 2024 at 2:43 pm

     Ditto! I read TS every day but seldom comment. Where will I go for comments on the news of the day that is so well moderated for rational and respectful comment?

     Reply
     • dv 9.2.1

       14 August 2024 at 4:02 pm

       Well said.

       Reply
   • Bearded Git 9.3

     14 August 2024 at 3:53 pm

     +1,000,000 ianmac.

     Reply
10. kejo 10

    14 August 2024 at 4:01 pm

    As another daily reader of your site I am sorry to hear that you are leaving us. Fully support the previous comments. Go well. Regards. Keith

    Reply
11. hetzer 11

    14 August 2024 at 4:39 pm

    Always a daily reader, and will miss the site ( and im very right wing, but know your enemy and all that ). But yeah sometimes things just reach their natural end point. No doubt folks will find other sites to express their thoughts.

    Reply
    • Incognito 11.1

      14 August 2024 at 4:50 pm

      Appreciate the comment, thanks.

      No doubt folks will find other sites to express their thoughts.

      I’d like to think that TS was a little more than that.

      Reply
    • PsyclingLeft.Always 11.2

      15 August 2024 at 9:29 am

      im very right wing

      No shit? You left off right wing troll.

      Reply
      • Incognito 11.2.1

        15 August 2024 at 9:40 am

        Please no pointless personal attacks, thanks

        Reply
        • PsyclingLeft.Always 11.2.1.1

          15 August 2024 at 9:43 am

          Its my personal opinion, as I have been trolled by same. Thanks.

          Reply
          • Incognito 11.2.1.1.1

            15 August 2024 at 10:02 am

            If/when you’re feeling that you’re being trolled then call them out on it then & there and alert the Mods. This instance is nothing more than a pointless personal attack and uncalled for.

            BTW, I found one exchange between you two that occurred 2 years ago; it was about Muldoon and fairly low on the trolling scale, IMO.

            Reply
12. feijoa 12

    14 August 2024 at 6:53 pm

    This is sad news that the site is shutting down. I will miss my daily dose of mostly very sane and well thought through thinking on the issues of the day and things brought to my attention that I've missed. I hope we can find another home somewhere, where left thoughts can shine. I don't know why the trans debate has become so, so toxic, and I wonder if understanding that toxicity might give us better insight into other issues too.

    Go well lprent, and thank you very much. It's been swell.

    Reply
13. Mike the Lefty 13

    14 August 2024 at 7:10 pm

    This (very) unexpected OCR cut smells of political manipulation.

    Everything the Reserve Bank has said for the last year up til now has been "no cuts at least until the new year".

    And now, miraculously for those with mortgages, the bank does a 180 degree turn and tries to fob it off as "we received new information…..".

    This smells of b…s!

    This is a case of the CoC so worried about opposition to their right-wing ideological hamfisted policies – so worried about the rising cost of living that had to engineer a "good news story" to divert attention away from the harm they are inflicting on a sizeable proportion of society.

    I bet that Adrian Orr didn't want to lower the OCR but was told by the three stooges to do it or he could look for another job.

    Reply
    • Belladonna 13.1

      14 August 2024 at 8:16 pm

      A more balanced appraisal

      https://www.reuters.com/markets/real-possibility-new-zealand-central-bank-start-cutting-rates-this-week-2024-08-12/

      Widespread recent speculation about the possibility of a cut – as the economy slowed, and inflation reduced.

      You can't attribute *everything* to machiavellian manipulation (and you're also attributing major-league political skills to the trio, whom the left prefer to characterize as bumbling incompetents)

      I'm sure that the government will endeavour to spin this in the most positive way. But that's a far cry from the blatant political corruption you're alleging.

      Reply
      • Mike the Lefty 13.1.1

        14 August 2024 at 8:38 pm

        Ah excuse me!

        I never mentioned corruption, that was YOUR terminology.

        It was manipulative, planned political brinkmanship.

        Just because you are feeling charitable to the three stooges because your mortgage repayments might go down a peg, I'm not.

        Reply
        • Belladonna 13.1.1.1

          14 August 2024 at 8:43 pm

          "I bet that Adrian Orr didn't want to lower the OCR but was told by the three stooges to do it or he could look for another job."

          Claiming that the government leadership threatened the Reserve Bank governor with being fired, if he didn’t follow their orders – is absolutely accusing them of political corruption. Own your own slurs.

          And once again 'three stooges' are the masters of political manipulation – don't you even see the inconsistency of your own rhetoric.

          Reply
          • Muttonbird 13.1.1.1.1

            14 August 2024 at 9:00 pm

            Debbie Ngarewa-Packer had it just right describing the three stooges as the dark triad, which is made up of:

            Three personality traits, the Machiavellian, the psychopath and the narcissist.

            It was a very neat description of, in order, Luxon, Seymour, and Peters. Perception of personality and intent is one of the many strengths of the Maori world.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

            Reply
            • Belladonna 13.1.1.1.1.1

              14 August 2024 at 9:10 pm

              I'm sure you wouldn't want to read the character analysis of Ngarewa-Packer from the right!

              NB: some of them are Maori, too…..

              Reply
              • Muttonbird …

                15 August 2024 at 10:29 am

                Maori from the right have pretty much abandoned the Māori world. They see little value in tikanga, in being Māori. Rather, they see the future to be more like Pakeha. You can see this in the reckless dismantling of recent moves to support Te ao Māori.

                Reply
                • higherstandard …

                  15 August 2024 at 1:03 pm

                  Thankyou for that in depth analysis – Thankfully most people have moved on from 'Uncle Tomming'.

                  Reply
                • Incognito …

                  15 August 2024 at 6:25 pm

                  I do question whether the framing of Māori vs. Pakeha, or indigenous vs. [white] settler/colonialist, is helpful and possibly even misleading. It easily allows in labels and accusations of racism, for example, and changes genuine class war into a phony culture war. Unfortunately, TPM and its supporters are also all too happy to buy in and propagate this narrative, further polarising debate and further dividing people.

                  Randians oppose just about anything and anyone promoting even the slightest hint of unification and unionisation. This gives rise to pseudo-arguments such as TPM doesn’t speak for all Māori, Māori X doesn’t speak for all Māori, and person Y is Māori [but a rabid Randian]. This can and does easily slide down a slippery slope of stupid claims that person Z is ‘not Māori enough’ or that such-and-such is a ‘redneck racist’. We have seen many examples of this here on TS too, both from LW and RW commenters.

                  Reply
                  • Muttonbird …

                    15 August 2024 at 8:19 pm

                    I admire the energy and directness TPM bring to their activism. Could do with a bit more of that sort of fight on the left if you ask me.

                    After all, should we not be loud and proud against those who seek to minimise and dominate the vulnerable and marginalised? Only the comfortable feel threatened by TPM…

                    And talk about one Maori not speaking for all Maori, let's be clear, that one Maori, David Seymour, is all too happy to draw a line over which no other Maori shall cross with the highly divisive principles bill. We know that if it goes to referendum the weight of centuries of white privilege in funding will be brought to bear on a result which benefits them.

                    Representative, participatory democracy will be taken out the back and abused. Once again the powerful will have their way.

                    Fight it now, energise people, because soon it will be too late.

                    Reply
                    • Incognito …

                      15 August 2024 at 8:34 pm

                      Okay, my comment hasn’t landed and found fertile soil, so let’s agree to disagree on this.
                    • Muttonbird …

                      15 August 2024 at 9:33 pm

                      @ Incognito.

                      The use of language by TPM might be confronting to some people but that is what they feel is necessary to energise their base and their allies. It's much harder for low-income, marginalised people to make their voices heard and it is largely done through direct action and making noise.

                      We might not see Seymour speak in the same way publicly but the intensity of activism against Maori is there, just behind closed doors with hugely wealthy fellow activists. He doesn't need to speak loudly to energise his base, just calmly in the school debating style safe in the knowledge they are backed by huge resources with which to market opinion.

                      The well-bred and powerful know the system is to be used at their will and the only thing they are afraid of is mass movement of people. People need to be fired up.

                      TPM aims to do just that.
                  • roblogic …

                    15 August 2024 at 8:39 pm

                    TPM is a different beast from the days of Tariana Turia and its coalition with National under John Key. But so is the National Party.

                    The current atmosphere is highly charged with arseholes like Seymour stirring pots and driving wedges.

                    Reply
                    • Incognito …

                      15 August 2024 at 8:45 pm

                      TPM don’t seem to realise that they’re wrestling with a pig and the pig is loving it.
            • Anne 13.1.1.1.1.2

              15 August 2024 at 8:20 pm

              Muttonbird @ 13.1.1.1.1

              Perception of personality and intent is one of the many strengths of the Maori world.

              Anyone – or any group of people – who has been systematically stigmatised, put down and denied what belongs to them becomes wiser and more intuitive than most of their fellow citizens. So it is with Maori who have been subjected to all three for nearly 200 years.

              Reply
              • Belladonna …

                15 August 2024 at 8:34 pm

                But, according to Muttonbird, only those people from that group who politically agree with him….

                Reply
              • roblogic …

                15 August 2024 at 11:36 pm

                Seen on X (@thematrixwizard)

                "Hurt people hurt others, but luckily:
                Healed people, heal others,
                Safe people, shelter others,
                Free spirits, free others,
                Enlightened people, illuminate others,
                And love always wins.
                So shine your light of love on all who may cross your path in life,
                because what you do matters"

                

                Reply
      • Muttonbird 13.1.2

        14 August 2024 at 8:48 pm

        The RBNZ are saying the difference between the May statement and the August cut is the data was worse then expected.

        Well, you can thank the National led government for that because they have run a sustained negative campaign on the economy since before the election. What happens when you insist on 7% cuts across the board in the public sector? Answer, the private sector, and households will do the same.

        I think the RBNZ might have been caught out by the rank incompetence of Luxon and Willis and have been forced, on the insistence of NZ’s monied elite, to reprime the country before it is ready.

        Reply
        • Belladonna 13.1.2.1

          14 August 2024 at 8:55 pm

          Well, that's a more interesting argument, than the apparent belief of Mike the Lefty, that it's all a cunning plot by the government.

          It will be interesting to see if A) the rate cut triggers more business confidence and individual spending (begins to turn the economy around), and B) holds inflation at at least the current rate.
          Achieving both is a big ask. But we'll see.

          Reply
        • Graeme 13.1.2.2

          14 August 2024 at 10:30 pm

          I'd concur with that reasoning. My understanding is that RBNZ had been talking next year before any rate cut but the current contraction in activity (it's bloody hard work for retailers right now) and a looming wave of business collapses forced their hand.

          There could be more bad news from dairy land coming up too, which would really put the skids under things.

          Reply
14. Tracy Bee 14

    15 August 2024 at 9:18 am

    lprent, you have been attacking people rather than their points. I think you've made the right decision to go. I hope this site continues as it's a great forum to read, even if I don't make many comments.

    Reply
    • Anne 14.1

      15 August 2024 at 8:33 pm

      lprent attacks people because of what they are saying not because of who they are. His style may not meet with approval by some, but it is who he is. If you follow the subject matter he is talking about rather than how he says it, you would know he is always bang on in his analysis.

      Reply

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