Open Mike 14/05/2017

46 comments on “Open Mike 14/05/2017 ”

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1. Karen 1

   14 May 2017 at 9:06 am

   Bloody hell, the Nats are really showing what a nasty, vindictive, uncaring party they are.

   Their attitude to social support services sounds like Mafia style bully tactics (that’s a nice charity you have there…)

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/05/13/27104/national-unleashes-housing-man-against-the-doubters
   • Psycho Milt 1.1

     14 May 2017 at 9:22 am

     What the fuck?

     [Alfred Ngaro] suggested Labour list candidate Willie Jackson could expect to lose Government support for his Manukau Urban Māori Authority interest in a second charter school, and its Whānau Ora contract should he “bag us” on the campaign trail.

     “We are not happy about people taking with one hand and throwing with the other,” Ngaro said.

     This prick thinks it’s his party’s money that his government spends! Vote National and join the Third World quicker, folks!
     • weka 1.1.1

       14 May 2017 at 10:12 am

       They’re a bunch of promo-fascists emboldened by Tr*mp. Not to worry though, there’s not real difference between National and Labour.
       • Bill 1.1.1.1

         14 May 2017 at 11:17 am

         There are differences in how to proceed from a commonly held ideological basis.

         In some ways that amounts to asking whether the toxic pill be taken orally or as a suppository. Vivre la difference! No doubt one is more unpleasant than the other – maybe even vastly so in the short term- but it hardly amounts to having a deep and meaningful choice, does it?
         • weka 1.1.1.1.1

           14 May 2017 at 11:29 am

           sure and I agree with the general sentiment, but running that line in this kind of debate makes invisible the very real differences between the two parties. As bad as Labour are in terms of supporting the status quo neoliberally, I still think that they wouldn’t be doing the range and number and kind of attacks on democracy that National have done in the past 9 years. The reason that matters is that if we were say to attempt to transition to a social democracy, it’s so much harder to do that when people are fearful and have lost another layer of agency. And of course it’s open to capture by whatever proto-fascists/authoritarians are lurking on the left.

           National did this shit in the 90s too, shutting down the academics who were speaking out against Rogernmonics. It’s why the MSM can run a debate about whether Mike Joy is an extremist whose science therefore can’t be trusted. As well as making structural chances (e.g. via legislation) around this stuff, National are also actively engaged in social engineering so that over time all this shit becomes normal. They’re experts at it, Labour don’t consider it necessary or ethical as far as I can see so there is no ‘commonly held ideological basis’ in this instance.

           I don’t have a problem with pointing to the commonly held ideologies, but I do have a problem with the meme being used liberally where its not accurate or warranted.
           • Bill 1.1.1.1.1.1

             14 May 2017 at 1:45 pm

             Remarking that both National and Labour share a commitment to liberal capitalist ideology is an observation, not a sentiment.

             On ‘attacking democracy’, well, I had a wee ponder about that one. So putting aside abuses of parliamentary processes (the Beehive hardly being an alter of democracy) the two ‘biggies’ that came to mind were CERA and supercities. There are other things (Canterbury Water?), but Labour’s positioning on two major political attempts to undermine whatever democracy we have, is surely instructive.

             Labour endorsed CERA. (I remember being more than just a little pissed at that)

             And Labour didn’t offer any principled objection to the creation of supercities. All it objected to were some of the ‘hows’. As Labour’s own web-page states – “He (Phil Twyford) led Labour’s campaign against the way National set up the Auckland super city…”

             And Labour didn’t exactly offer up any principled opposition to a Wellington supercity either…

             On shutting down academics and other dissident voices, well…Mike Joy obviously. But neither do I remember Labour effusively encouraging people to listen to Nicky Hager when he published “Seeds of Distrust” which, for those who’ve forgotten, was about dodgy government processes and decision making under a Labour admin.

             That aside, there’s an entire gamut of institutions geared to shutting down dissent or pushing it to the margins. No NZ government that comes to mind has ever challenged that culture. (When was the last time a NZ government lauded a Jane Kelsey for instance?)

             This current Labour Party is no vehicle for social democracy. Hell, even their half-hearted internal attempt at democracy is well and truly ended. There will be no move towards a ‘one member one vote’ for leadership. The election of David Cunliffe has told them all they need to know on that front. Caucus will be keeping a tight rein on party decisions from now on. The example of Corbyn only strengthens the resolve to resist ‘the unwashed’ and Clinton’s democrats putting paid to Sanders shows that it can be done.

             Social democracy is enjoying the light of day in Scotland only because the Scottish Labour Party has basically been obliterated. In France, social democracy may see the light of day, but only because the traditional parties of the left and right (who will both offer support to Macron) are on the edge of a fall. (The upcoming National Assembly elections are going to be interesting on that front).

             Meanwhile, if all we have in NZ is the ‘better of two evils’, then the least we can do for ourselves is understand those evils and not kid ourselves that one or the other contains seeds of goodness.
         • North 1.1.1.1.2

           15 May 2017 at 9:31 am

           Right you are Bill….support the greater of evils.
           • Bill 1.1.1.1.2.1

             15 May 2017 at 9:46 am

             Are you claiming that’s what I support doing? How does recognisiing Labour’s liberal foundations become “support the greater of evils”?

             Explain.
   • Rosemary McDonald 1.2

     14 May 2017 at 9:28 am

     “When they are interviewing people who have not got a Housing NZ home, this is the question they should ask: How many homes have been made available to you? Did you decline? ”

     Alfred can go do some research/interrogations in Tauranga….

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/92453252/life-outside-8mile

     (good work by Shand btw.)

     Here’s our brighter fucking future….dum dum dum dum…..
   • Muttonbird 1.3

     14 May 2017 at 9:29 am

     Wow. He reminds me of Mussolini.
   • Barfly 1.4

     14 May 2017 at 9:42 am

     If this was an action by a Labour led government the MSM it would be “front page” news it would lead the “6 oclock ” news segments the howls of the MSM would be deafening – “censorship” fascism” “is this Zimbabwe” …but it’s a National led government so “peep?”
   • marty mars 1.5

     14 May 2017 at 11:01 am

     Election year and they have unleashed the hounds. As a strategy you can see the logic – push back, insult, divert, Chuck a dead cat,attack, pretend, get hurt, attack, dead cat, cry about some group you can’t stand, attack, divert … and it shows their dismal lack of caring for the homeless. At least scum DO something – these politicians are the scum that scum call the scum that they have!
2. Ed 2

   14 May 2017 at 9:23 am

   National’s New Zealand.

   Homeless and desperate.
   And living in a tent and a trailer park.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/92453252/life-outside-8mile
3. Ed 3

   14 May 2017 at 9:27 am

   Is Heather du Plessis Allen ignorant, a tool of the establishment or biased?
   I say all three.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11854545
   • Barfly 3.1

     14 May 2017 at 9:44 am

     +1
   • Ad 3.2

     14 May 2017 at 9:52 am

     In the 1930s and 40s Auckland City Council built inner city flats for exactly the purpose Heather describes.

     She also wants developers to be forced to build good rental housing in the city centre as per Sydney.

     Heather is dead right.
     • Ed 3.2.1

       14 May 2017 at 12:49 pm

       The policies enacted by 1930s Michael Savage government compares somewhat favourably with the neoliberal policies followed by Key and English and so slavishly supported by Soper and du Plessis.
   • rob 3.3

     14 May 2017 at 10:26 am

     I agree, just another nasty vile rwnj.I suppose her way was shack up with an elderly home owner.
     • Red 3.3.1

       14 May 2017 at 2:43 pm

       Agist and sexist, a great example of the virtuos morally superior left or maybe its ugly face exposed
     • Muttonbird 3.3.2

       14 May 2017 at 6:04 pm

       Lol.
   • Bill 3.4

     14 May 2017 at 3:06 pm

     You wanna explain why you thinks she’s an ignorant, biased tool of the establishment on the basis of that piece Ed?

     Recognising that many, many people will now never be able to afford a home in central Auckland, and then suggesting that a way be found to provide rental properties seems sensible to me.

     Maybe you don’t like she’s pointed out that despite of a huge percentage of people being unable to afford homes 15 years ago, we didn’t have this hullabaloo back then? I disagree with her reasoning around that and put it down to kiwi speculators being pissed at competition on ‘their patch’, but hey.
     • Ed 3.4.1

       14 May 2017 at 7:02 pm

       I have regrettably read and heard the opinions of both Soper and du Plessis too many times.

       du Plessis has never concerned herself with the poor and homeless. While John Campbell looked at housing on checkpoint and on Campbell Live, her focus has never been on challenging the powerful.
   • Red Hand 3.5

     14 May 2017 at 6:55 pm

     She’s frightened. They are out there in growing numbers and the double barrel surname syndrome will naturally be selected out.
4. mauī 4

   14 May 2017 at 9:38 am

   A terrible story:

   Daughter Elizabeth took her own life in February.

   “She had lived in about eight, 10 motels all over South Auckland. The last motel she was in she was told by Work and Income that they weren’t about to help her with another motel, that she will be homeless, and her daughter will be homeless, which really, really stressed her,” Mrs Kiel said.

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-we-shouldnt-in-position-grandparents-and-nine-grandchildren-forced-live-motel
   • Barfly 4.1

     14 May 2017 at 9:45 am

     “Daughter Elizabeth took her own life in February”

     Effectively murdered by state indifference/policy
     • saveNZ 4.1.1

       14 May 2017 at 9:52 am

       @ Maui, Shocking story.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

       14 May 2017 at 12:27 pm

       +1

       Exactly and the government should be held accountable for it.
       • Red 4.1.2.1

         14 May 2017 at 2:46 pm

         Just a small point re accountability and its all the state fault

         The family was evicted from their Housing New Zealand home where they had lived for 16 years, for anti-social behav
         • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1.1

           14 May 2017 at 3:32 pm

           Except that Elizabeth was living by herself and not part of the family group (which probably contributed to her suicide).

           And if people are acting ‘anti-social’ then we need to find a way to help them and not push them further outside as this government does as that will result in even worse behaviour.

           Considering the conditions that they were in I doubt it was ‘antisocial’ but the direct results of this governments social policies.
         • gsays 4.1.2.1.2

           14 May 2017 at 4:46 pm

           Hi red,
           after eviction, where did the family live?
         • mauī 4.1.2.1.3

           14 May 2017 at 6:42 pm

           Doesn’t add up, a pair of grandparents and 9 young kids who don’t look to be even teenagers are evicted due to an “allegation” of anti social behaviour. We have no detail on the behaviour or the families side of the story.

           On the other hand we know HNZ has been clearing out hundreds of tenants across NZ over recent years to make way for property developers. Could this eviction tie in with that?
   • marty mars 4.2

     14 May 2017 at 10:50 am

     So awful the deep desperation many people are surviving within. Meanwhile down the road the politicians who could do something are indifferent and deliberately obstructuve towards solutions that are needed today.
   • mary_a 4.3

     14 May 2017 at 5:46 pm

     @ maui (4) … Absolutely dreadful. Such a very sad outcome. Hard to believe this is NZ.

     RIP Elizabeth.
5. saveNZ 5

   14 May 2017 at 9:51 am

   On UK Labour

   7 ‘radical’ policies in the draft Labour manifesto that are totally normal in other countries

   http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/7-radical-policies-draft-labour-10401191
   • ianmac 5.1

     14 May 2017 at 10:33 am

     Looking good saveNZ. Surely this will resonate with Wage and Salary earners.
     • Bill 5.1.1

       14 May 2017 at 11:10 am

       Well…the Guardian’s reporting it (buried in one of their pieces) as “more popular than Miliband, but..” .
       Or – “Tories lead by 15 points despite Labour gains”. And then there’s all the shite around that idiot of a deputy purportedly saying he’s campaigning to stop a landslide (ie – to lose).

       And who was the idiot conceding the policies were good and then waxing about policy being irrelevant?! Or the other one suggesting that reading policies was akin to getting down on nettles. Oh. And then there’s the claim that a ‘progressive alliance’ wouldn’t stop the Tories anyway.

       There’s four weeks to go, yes? Okay.

       The Optimist in me says UK Labour pulls it off and governs alongside the SNP and others (Plaid and Greens) on an issue by issue basis.
       The Realist says they come close.
       The Pessimist says May waltzes in.

       And for France (first round on same day)…La France insoumise (Melenchon) records by far and away the largest gains in the National Assembly, Macron has to scrape support from already discredited quarters (the old parties of the left and right) and on a really good day becomes what Le Pen was guaranteed to be – a lame duck president.
6. Draco T Bastard 6

   14 May 2017 at 12:45 pm

   A growing number of people think their job is useless. Time to rethink the meaning of work

   Our definition of work, however, is incredibly narrow. Only the work that generates money is allowed to count toward GDP. Little wonder, then, that we have organized education around feeding as many people as possible in bite-size flexible parcels into the employment establishment. Yet what happens when a growing proportion of people deemed successful by the measure of our knowledge economy say their work is pointless?

   A question that needs to be addressed as capitalism sinks us ever further into poverty and BS jobs.
   • Incognito 6.1

     14 May 2017 at 12:55 pm

     I agree, but this question cannot be left to politicians (and economists!) alone. In fact, they cannot address this question for each and all of us. What they can and must do is leading the debate, i.e. show leadership; not to make the decisions for us or on our so-called behalf (‘mandate’ BS and patronising ‘we-know-best’ crap) … That said, if we cannot be bothered to engage (with politicians and the political process) we cannot put (all) the blame on (the) politicians.
   • Bill 6.2

     14 May 2017 at 4:35 pm

     Simple rule of thumb.

     If what you’re doing isn’t contributing to the well-being of people around you – ie, to society, then it’s a heap of crap.

     So crap is (to take from the link) “..the growing armies of consultants, bankers, tax advisors, managers, and others who earn their money in strategic trans-sector peer-to-peer meetings to brainstorm the value-add on co-creation in the network society. Or something to that effect.”

     I’d add politicians, lawyers, accountants, middle management, lower management and upper management. Hm. Probably more than a few retail workers and service industry employees (and all of their bosses of course).

     But far too many would peer through their walls of comfortable conformity and struggle and exclaim “Eek! Freedom!” and scrabble that crumbling brick back into place.
7. Incognito 7

   14 May 2017 at 3:09 pm

   On Sciblogs a handy piece by Grant Jacobs “Getting scientific research papers without paying”.

   http://sciblogs.co.nz/code-for-life/2017/05/02/paywall-scientific-papers-without-paying/
8. greywarshark 8

   14 May 2017 at 3:54 pm

   Fly me to the moon, and letme stay up with the stars, or not!

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/92556121/The-terrifying-untold-story-of-QF72-What-happens-when-psycho-automation-leaves-pilots-powerless
   • Andre 8.1

     14 May 2017 at 5:17 pm

     Taken in isolation, that’s scary stuff. You can bet there’s been a hell of a lot of changes to prevent that happening again.

     But the big picture reality is the flesh-and-blood pilots have a much worse record for scaring, maiming and killing their passengers. And that’s just the outright suicidal ones, let alone all the simple human errors.
     • greywarshark 8.1.1

       14 May 2017 at 8:41 pm

       I see the stats show that crashes have gone down so that looks good.

       It might be the best thing to do to allow manual overrides if there are requests from pilot and co-pilot.
9. marty mars 9

   14 May 2017 at 6:17 pm

   The past is important for the lessons of the past, the experiences of the past and the knowledge gained from the past – all so we can make a future.

   “On a recent night in Dublin, Ireland, veteran civil-rights campaigner Bernadette Devlin McAliskey addressed a conference commemorating the 80th anniversary of the bombing of Gernika – the small Basque town also known by its Spanish name, Guernica – during the Spanish Civil War.”

   “Our simplistic historic understanding of fascism needs to be challenged,” warns McAliskey, “fascism is not German, it’s not the Nazism of the Second World War … it starts in the heads of individuals with the idea that what keeps you disadvantaged is that some lesser breed has taken what belongs to you.”

   So what is it that allows a human being to engage in the mass destruction of their fellow and sister human beings? And there is only one thing – you can put in a lot of ingredients – but there is only one thing that allows it to happen. At the point in which it is happening the perpetrator does not believe that their victims are entitled to the status of human beings. You couldn’t do it otherwise, you couldn’t do it and go home and not go insane, you couldn’t do it and go home and live with the demons of it for the rest of your life. Unless you can persuade yourself – and it is remarkable how little persuasion it seems to take – that once you can identify any group of people as less than human, you can exterminate them.

   https://towardfreedom.com/archives/europe/sleepwalking-toward-global-war-bernadette-devlin-mcaliskey-rise-fascism-today/
   • Incognito 9.1

     14 May 2017 at 7:41 pm

     An excellent piece! She’s one wise woman!

     It is vital to focus on our commonalities and equality and not on our differences and ‘otherness’; the latter will drive us apart and separate us and eventually pitch us against each other and ourselves. Indeed, “it starts in the head of individuals, and it is promoted there” and it also ends there; “the first basic unit of democracy is the individual”.
10. joe90 10

    14 May 2017 at 7:17 pm

    America.

    This rally of white people with torches, led by Richard Spencer, was designed to intimidate the local Black community. America. 2017. https://t.co/LazD3jwhOT— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) May 14, 2017

    The alt-right shows up in Charlottesville, Va., chanting “Russia is our friend” near statue of Robert E. Lee. https://t.co/o00TYIvupj— Jim Roberts (@nycjim) May 14, 2017

    Protesters, including white nationalist Richard Spencer, were carrying torches. Mayor compares it to a KKK rally. https://t.co/o00TYIvupj pic.twitter.com/cVoGgvjDW0— Jim Roberts (@nycjim) May 14, 2017

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