Open mike 14/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, June 14th, 2014 - 224 comments
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224 comments on “Open mike 14/06/2014 ”

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  1. phillip ure 1
    14 June 2014 at 7:18 am

    (jamaica has decriminalised marijuana..mon..!

    ..here are some classic reggae pot-songs..

    ..so you can celebrate with a suitable soundtrack..)

    http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/jun/13/classic-reggae-ganja-anthems-jamaica

    • joe90 1.1
      14 June 2014 at 9:24 am

      Meanwhile, six months into Colorado’s green experiment, money is flowing and crime is decreasing.

      This week, official data from the U.S. revealed that the murder rate in Denver (capital city of the state of Colorado) is down 52.9% since the use of recreational marijuana was legalised in the state last January. This means that while there were 17 murders in Denver alone from January to June 2013, in 2014, the number went down to 8.

      Not only that, but sexual assaults have also dropped by 13.6%, auto theft is down 36.3%, robberies in general by 4.8%, crimes against property by 11.4% and aggravated assaults by 3.7%.

      According to experts, although very little time has passed since marijuana was legalised in the state, the results do not seem to be the product of mere chance.

      https://www.lamota.org/en/blog/colorado-crime-legalisation/

      • phillip ure 1.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 9:31 am

        wow..!..that’s some cool stats/facts there..

        ..(they should be sent to every politician..

        ..and maybe that high-profile pot-fretter..jim mora..?..)..

        ..chrs..i’ll link to it..

        ..and over on the financial ledger side..

        ..the pot industry in california is worth $23 billion to the californian economy each year..

        • phillip ure 1.1.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 9:37 am

          and no wonder cops oppose legalisation..eh..?

          ..it’s all a matter of patch/funding-protection for them..

          ..if crime dropped here by such radical-rates..+ no pot-criminals to chase/lock-up..

          ..there wd be less need for them getting ever-increasing funding/new-tasers/fun in helicopters hunting pot etc..etc..

          ..they would get less resources..

          ..it’s as simple as that..

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.2
        14 June 2014 at 10:23 am

        This week, official data from the U.S. revealed that the murder rate in Denver (capital city of the state of Colorado) is down 52.9% since the use of recreational marijuana was legalised in the state last January.

        Give the masses their soma; the power elite might find it quite an agreeable thing to do going forward if it keeps the riots and civil disobedience at bay.

        • phillip ure 1.1.2.1
          14 June 2014 at 10:53 am

          it could go either way..

          ..as in once that is sorted..it’s a matter of ‘what’s next..?

          ..that could temper their soma-urges..

        • Lanthanide 1.1.2.2
          14 June 2014 at 1:47 pm

          With a bleak future between energy scarcity and climate change, I think soma is a distinct possibility.

        • emergency mike 1.1.2.3
          15 June 2014 at 3:03 am

          “Give the masses their soma; the power elite might find it quite an agreeable thing to do going forward if it keeps the riots and civil disobedience at bay.”

          I think you might be confusing cannibis with television there CV. Also, you might want to look up civil disobedience in wikipedia (there’s a picture of Ghandi), because I couldn’t find murder, sexual assault, nor car theft in the ‘techniques’ section.

          Furthermore, in my experience cannabis culture reliably leads to an increased distrust of authority, greater interest in creative pursuits, and much, much less interest in the working trap pay your taxes get a mortgage train your kids to do it too then you die ain’t it grand lark. Soma it’s not.

  3. phillip ure 3
    14 June 2014 at 8:14 am

    “..Teen Marijuana Use Remains Flat Nationwide – As More States Legalise..”

    “..As marijuana’s national popularity continues to grow-

    • and more states have legalized either medical or recreational use of it –
    • a new federal survey shows that those shifting attitudes have not produced a surge in teen use..”

    (cont.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/teen-marijuana-use-flat_n_5492135.html?ref=topbar

    • JanM 3.1
      14 June 2014 at 8:26 am

      What on earth makes anyone think that making something legal is going to attract a teenager, for goodness sake?

      • phillip ure 3.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 8:35 am

        well..that is one of the main arguments of the prohibitionists..

        ..should we call it the mrs reverend lovejoy-syndrome..?

        ..’won’t somebody think of the children..!..’

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.2
        14 June 2014 at 10:27 am

        What on earth makes anyone think that making something legal is going to attract a teenager, for goodness sake?

        Lowering the drinking age to 18 did.

      • Lanthanide 3.1.3
        14 June 2014 at 1:49 pm

        Making it legal certainly would increase incidental and ‘first-time’ usage, but I doubt it would do much to swell the ranks of regular users.

        • phillip ure 3.1.3.1
          14 June 2014 at 5:29 pm

          in america the uptake has been seen in those in their 40’s – 50’s – and 60’s..

          ..because..any teenagers wanting to smoke..wd already be doing it..legal or illegal..

          ..it is their elders who have been cowed into submission by prohibition..

  4. Saarbo 4
    14 June 2014 at 8:27 am

    This is actually a bloody good article from Fran O in todays Herald.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11273606

    I think she is calling for a tougher CGT as well!

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1
      14 June 2014 at 9:49 am

      Key would be a shoo-in at the September 20 election as political leader if this country enjoyed a presidential system instead of the rag-tag MMP system we have here.

      There’s the attack on MMP.

      Not simply being skilled at finding the centre of politics. Or managing the economy – where his Government does deserve credit.

      And that’s just a small portion of the kissing of John Key’s arse in that piece.

      Can’t really say I saw anything of worth in there.

    • Ad 4.2
      14 June 2014 at 10:01 am

      Irrespective of her politics she is a wise head. Something needs to click inside a Prime Minsiter who is coasting to victory at the end of his third term: it’s a will to monumentality, that will to rank oneself in the history books for having achieved something. To become one of the greatest.

      There will be many reviews of his Prime Minsitership as the election looms – and he deserves the praise Fran awards him.

      But with such momentum going into a third term, including in particular many parts of the economy, he needs to ask whether a merely excellent managerial record will be enough.

      Helen Clark bequeathed us the Rugby World Cup, and the greatest sustained economic boom we have ever had outside of a world war.

      John Key will leave us with a similar economic surge, the Sky City Casino, the Lord of the Rings second set of films, management of the Christchurch earthquake rebuild, and a recovery after the GFC that largely left the social service network New Zealand has been used to intact. Pretty rare if we look across the OECD.

      A part of his ego needs to kick in that only leaders have: what greatness will he leave? Will he simply be a more inspiring and secure Bolger? Can he leave us in a better place than Clark? Regrettably it is currently likely that he and his party will win the election, and in that circumstance I want him to go big.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 10:34 am

        Helen Clark bequeathed us the Rugby World Cup, and the greatest sustained economic boom we have ever had outside of a world war.

        Yes, as long as we remember that it was all built on an unsustainable massive local and international private sector debt and asset price bubble. Just keep saying that so no one forgets, it’s where all the money flowing into the NZ spending economy came from.

        • Ad 4.2.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 10:43 am

          Without high internal savings rates, the only alternative is external debt.
          You’re about to provide a counterfactual history for Helen Clark’s economic leadership in which New Zealanders could or should have put their debt into something besides housing? They weren’t “transformational” enough?
          Or did you miss Labour’s unemployment stats for that era?

          • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 10:55 am

            Steve Keen the Australian economist has demonstrated over and over again that employment is the inverse of debt acceleration. The money which accelerating debt levels pushes into the economy is the major driver in creating jobs.

            The moment debt acceleration halts – unemployment significantly worsens. Which is to be expected as debt supplied money into the economy dries up.

            Without high internal savings rates, the only alternative is external debt.

            High levels of household savings significantly depress consumer spending into the economy. Remember the mantra of our leaders has been “growth.” While increasing savings or paying off debt may indeed be a personal good, if everyone does it a severe recession will result.

            • Ad 4.2.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 11:13 am

              To get back to the actual point Fran has made, here’s a poser for you:
              If John Key is re-elected, what’s the best he should deliver for the New Zealand economy?

              Remember, he’s not a no-growth, no-debt, socialist, nationalising guy.

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 June 2014 at 11:35 am

                I just spent 15 minutes composing a comment describing a policy platform for National constructed around concretely realising the “New Zealand Inc – Open to the world for New Business” vision of the nation.

                Then I deleted it because if National ran with anything along those lines, Key would win a 3rd term hands down.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.2
            14 June 2014 at 11:46 am

            Without high internal savings rates, the only alternative is external debt.

            BS. We savings as much as we need foreign investment – not at all.

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.2.1
              14 June 2014 at 11:50 am

              Very few on the Left accept that government can spend NZ dollars into existence by spending money from a designated Reserve Bank account operated by Treasury, into the general economy.

              Once those dollars are in circulation they can then be saved and spent by the citizens, as appropriately encouraged by government. And that’s one way of getting internal savings.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                14 June 2014 at 4:17 pm

                Very few on the Left accept that government can spend NZ dollars into existence by spending money from a designated Reserve Bank account operated by Treasury, into the general economy.

                That’s because they’ve been listening to the RWNJs for too long.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 June 2014 at 4:21 pm

                  And have no leverage to push back at the international banking system with. Even if they had the will.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    14 June 2014 at 9:54 pm

                    And have no leverage to push back at the international banking system with.

                    Don’t really need it. Sure, we’ll probably become a pariah state but we can survive that – and the Rest of the World will go WTF??!

                    Even if they had the will.

                    And that is the problem. Of course, it’s not the politicians that need the will but the populace to push the politicians in the right direction.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 June 2014 at 9:59 pm

                      IMO only peaceful mass movements can bring about the change we want in Parliament. Which is why they try as hard as they can to keep the populace sedated and uninformed.

                      Don’t really need it. Sure, we’ll probably become a pariah state but we can survive that – and the Rest of the World will go WTF??!

                      There are actually some advantages to being aligned with Empire. I’ll admit that much. Problem is that this Empire appears to be edging into an age of insanity and is determined to go down in flames – we shouldn’t follow.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      14 June 2014 at 11:00 pm

                      Which is why they try as hard as they can to keep the populace sedated and uninformed.

                      And they don’t seem to like it when you throw the truth at them. Especially when it comes to money.

                      There are actually some advantages to being aligned with Empire.

                      There certainly can be but I think I’m glad that we’re not Inner Circle in this one. Makes it easier to break off and go a different way.

                      Problem is that this Empire appears to be edging into an age of insanity and is determined to go down in flames

                      Considering that all empires have gone down in flames perhaps it’s empire that is the insanity.

      • miravox 4.2.2
        14 June 2014 at 10:39 am

        “John Key will leave us with a similar economic surge, the Sky City Casino, the Lord of the Rings second set of films, management of the Christchurch earthquake rebuild, and a recovery after the GFC that largely left the social service network New Zealand has been used to intact.”

        Surely you omitted the /sarc tag?

        • Ad 4.2.2.1
          14 June 2014 at 10:46 am

          Not saying I like it, and I leave that to you to winnow fact from fiction.
          But as GDP climbs and unemployment tracks below 6%, Key could claim things are going right.
          And NZ popularity polls consistently agree.

          • Tracey 4.2.2.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 2:31 pm

            fiction is the new fact

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 2:40 pm

              The Left may think that the values it holds and its policy positions clearly represents the best interests of the bottom 90% of the population.

              However, approximately half of them don’t agree.

              • Tracey …
                14 June 2014 at 2:49 pm

                Agree with you. But you also know that political parties such as national and labour and ACT dont just control the message they pay money to mask it.

                Lots of people think that john key is ordinary and honest, which is exactly the image they set out to create. That half the people believe that is down to the success of the dark arts of advertising and marketing. Which is different to those who, when presented with cracks in the veneer, put their fingers in their ears and say la-a-la

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 June 2014 at 3:30 pm

                  Also, Labour has left a huge political space vacant on the Left. It gave plenty of room for the Greens to fill, and as the Greens have gradually marched towards the centre (accepting that they are still fairly left), breathing space for parties like Mana has opened up.

          • Ergo Robertina 4.2.2.1.2
            14 June 2014 at 5:01 pm

            “John Key will leave us with a similar economic surge, the Sky City Casino, the Lord of the Rings second set of films, management of the Christchurch earthquake rebuild…’

            The Government isn’t trumpeting its actual ‘management’ of the rebuild as a success though. It’s relying on the economic stimulus for its growth figures, which is different.
            The likely effect of Chch on the ballot in Sept is being underestimated because of the Auckland-Wellington focused media.

      • phillip ure 4.2.3
        14 June 2014 at 11:14 am

        ..it won’t be his ignoring of child-poverty he will be reviled by future historians for..

        ..it won’t be his putting his boot on the back of the poors-necks..and screwing..that he will be reviled by future historians for..

        it won’t be his blowing out our debt to ‘foreign-bankers’ from $12 billion upon taking office…..to over $60 billion..(and growing..)..accompanied with/by massive tax-cuts for the wealthiest that he will be reviled by future historians for..

        ..it won’t be the asset-stripping of commonly-owned/paid-for assets that he will be reviled by future historians for..

        ..it won’t be his wholesale fanning of the evils of inequality that he will be reviled by future historians for..

        ..it won’t be his allowing american-spooks to spy all over us that he will be reviled by future historians for..

        ..it won’t be his opening up of our national parks for wholesale drilling/mining-exploration..

        ..it won’t be his attempts to sell out our sovereignty to corporates..via the tpp..that he will be reviled by future historians for..

        (i could go on..but you get the idea..)

        ..what key/this government will be reviled by future historians for..

        ..will be for what those future historians will still be wrestling with the consequences of/from..

        ..the ignoring..for craven reasons..of what they knew/had been told..

        ..namely their uncaring/ongoing trashing of the environment/world..

        ..by their just continuing to do what they knew would wreck the future..

        ..and in fact ..not only ‘doing nothing’..but actually just doing even more to ensure to fuck that future..

        ..for those future historians..

        ..it is for this that john key (and all who sail with him..)

        ..will be writ large in the annals of infamy…

        ..this is his ‘heritage’..

      • Lanthanide 4.2.4
        14 June 2014 at 1:54 pm

        Why are you giving Key credit for not destroying something against the wishes of a large section of his voting base, who would love nothing more than to put strict restrictions on welfare?

        The credit goes to Labour for paying down national debt, giving the following government the financial headroom largely continue with BAU + a large tax cut.

    • ianmac 4.3
      14 June 2014 at 10:05 am

      Yes Saarbo. I had to check twice that it really was Fran’s writing! I always have the feeling that Key and his mates English, Joyce, and Brownlie make their announcements then away from the camera snigger and say of us, “Suckers!” Can you imagine agreement to cross-party discussion on Super or Electoral Reform or CGT?
      The importance of the Farrar research is to let Key know how much he can get away with rather than what is right for National philosophy. And we the people fall for it.

      • phillip ure 4.3.1
        14 June 2014 at 5:33 pm

        “..The importance of the Farrar research is to let Key know how much he can get away with rather than what is right..”

        ..+1..

  5. phillip ure 5
    14 June 2014 at 8:37 am

    (i just linked to a mindblowing-stat..)

    china has used more cement in the last three years..

    ..than the usa used in the whole of the 20th century…

    ..whoar..!..eh..?

    • phillip ure 5.1
      14 June 2014 at 9:21 am

      and the clowns that rule over us..

      ..can’t even make a decent start on rebuilding christchurch in that time..

      ..that time when china has used more cement than the usa used in the whole of the 20th century..

      ..kinda puts the whole ‘we’re doing all we can!..as fast as we can..and don’t you dare question me..!’ hand-flapping of that fucken idiot brownlee into some perspective..eh..?

      ..i’m surprised the people of christchurch haven’t rioted..

      ..(must be all those ‘good schools’ they went to..eh..?..

      ..all that standing in line..does inculcate obeisance to ‘authority’..

      ..all those little..and not so little..cartmen-clones..

      ..insisting/demanding you obey their dictum:

      ..’respect my authority..!’..)

      ..three years later..?..still shivering in broken homes..

      ..but hey..!..the stadium-plans are proceeding apace..!..eh..?

      ..and rugby will be the winner on the day..eh..?

    • Chooky 5.2
      14 June 2014 at 9:31 am

      scarey!…at that rate they could concrete New Zealand several billion times over….anyone for a concreted New Zealand?

      imo….no more immigration from grossly over populated countries… They have to sort out their own over population, exploitation of women and consequent environmental trashing and pollution problems out at home…. and not export them

      Keep New Zealand Green!

      • phillip ure 5.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 12:43 pm

        chooky..

        ..have you driven around new zealand lately..?

        ..are you saying we don’t have enough room..?

        ..you do know the japanese call new zealand ‘the empty islands’..eh..?

        ..and there is more than a whiff of the pull-up-the-ladder paula bennetts about anti-immigrant sentiments..

        ..i’m here..but you can’t come..

        ..and of curse the environmental-realities from future climate-change will likely make a lifeboat of nz..

        ..(libertarians must daydream about ‘taking over’ new zealand..eh..?

        ..no need fot those utopian-fantasies of building ‘free’ nation-states on discarded oil-platforms and the like..

        ..fanciful notions all..

        ..but new zealand..?..mm!!..now yr talking..!)..

        ..so given that invasion will be a likely future if we insist that ‘nobody can come here..!’..

        ..i think we should start ‘getting real’ about this..

        ..and be much more open/welcoming to economic/refugee-immigrants..

        ..(my ancestors..five generations back..were economic-refugees..

        ..celts looking for a better life..)

        • Chooky 5.2.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 2:23 pm

          Depends on whether you are ecocentric or anthropocentric …..I am with the Greens and Winnie on this… and many Labour voters I know …and not a few National voters I suspect

          ….also I dont think the Tibetans or the Palestinians, who have had their lands flooded with new immigrants in recent history and been marginalised in their own countries , would agree with you…nor would the early Maori or many of the later Maori…..who were ecocentric in their Gods and ecocentric in their values and where women were respected.

          …Sorry over- population does not go with respect for the Earth or its animals or with it flora or with respect for women!

          …Over population happens in patriarchal societies where males lord it over females ..and the female population is uneducated, economically exploited and denied control of their own fertility….these countries with a gross overpopulation imbalance need to face up to social and environmental issues they have created at home!…then they will have the respect of everyone.

          In the West, feminists have fought long and hard for control over their fertility , for equal access to education and equal career opportunities and pay…Depends on whether you are ecocentric or anthropocentric …..I am with the Greens and Winnie on this… and many Labour voters I know …and not a few National voters I suspect

          ….also I dont think the Tibetans or the Palestinians, who have had their lands flooded with new immigrants, would agree with you…nor would the early Maori or many of the later Maori…..who were ecocentric in their Gods and ecocentric in their values and where women were respected.

          …Sorry over- population does not go with respect for the Earth or its animals or with it flora or with respect for women!

          ….Over population happens in patriarchal societies where males lord it over females ..and the female population is uneducated, economically exploited and denied control of their own fertility….these countries with a gross overpopulation imbalance need to face up to issues they have created at home..then they will have the respect of everyone….and they should be encouraged by developed nations to do just this!.

          In the West feminists have fought long and hard for control over their fertility , for equal access to education and equal career opportunities and pay….and the environment is also the winner ……we are not keen to see this eroded ……

          • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 2:49 pm

            …Over population happens in patriarchal societies where males lord it over females ..and the female population is uneducated, economically exploited and denied control of their own fertility….

            Human over population has only occurred as a result of knowledge, technology and energy availability.

            Patriarchal societies have been the rule for tens of thousands of years but for almost all that time the human population has stayed at 200M or less.

            these countries with a gross overpopulation imbalance need to face up to issues they have created at home..then they will have the respect of everyone….

            This is a completely imperialist attitude. Why should these nations seek the approval of white western European-based societies, ones whose population make up only a small minority of the world population but who grab and use up the majority of the world’s resources?

            • Chooky 5.2.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 4:36 pm

              @CV…Tell that to the Tibetans!…Tibet was not overpopulated by Tibetans….. and nor did they exploit their natural environment..it was treated with reverence.

              ..also Tibetans have quite a lot of support in the West for their culture and religion Buddhism and their cause against Chinese imperialism and invasion…and persecution and genocide…not to mention and overpopulating Tibet

              ….and the Tibetans also seek the support of western European-based societies

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 June 2014 at 5:04 pm

                Tibet fell to a regional power. That’s what happens when your country is colonised.

                • Chooky …
                  14 June 2014 at 6:08 pm

                  no excuse for what happened in Tibet in this day and age…and what is still happening in Tibet!

                  …and we dont want it to happen here!

                  …does China regard itself as a regional power?…over all of South East Asia?….this is what we were told when we were in China

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    14 June 2014 at 8:14 pm

                    Yes.

                    This is why the US is moving additional aircraft carrier groups to the Pacific and encouraging Japan to re-arm and re-militarise in a big way.

          • Chooky 5.2.1.1.2
            14 June 2014 at 2:53 pm

            ( that comment to philip ure got mangled in the editing…should read as follows)

            Depends on whether you are ecocentric or anthropocentric …..I am with the Greens and Winnie on this… and many Labour voters I know …and not a few National voters I suspect

            ….also I dont think the Tibetans or the Palestinians, who have had their lands flooded with new immigrants in recent history and been marginalised in their own countries , would agree with you…nor would the early Maori or many of the later Maori…..who were ecocentric in their Gods and ecocentric in their values and where women were respected.

            …Sorry over- population does not go with respect for the Earth or its animals or with it flora or with respect for women!

            … Overpopulation happens in patriarchal societies where males lord it over females ..and the female population is uneducated, economically exploited and denied control of their own fertility….these countries with a gross overpopulation imbalance need to face up to issues they have created at home..then they will have the respect of everyone….and they should be encouraged by developed nations to do just this!.

            In the developed West where population is static or declining, women have acquired status ….Feminists have fought long and hard for control over their fertility , for equal access to education and equal career opportunities and pay….and the environment is also the winner !……we are not keen to see this eroded! ……

            • bad12 5.2.1.1.2.1
              14 June 2014 at 3:40 pm

              The settlement of Aotearoa by Maori was in fact a story of population pressure, my lot originally from the far North a 1000 or so years ago were forced by the burgeoning population there to seek new homes,

              Their migration down the Motu to Wellington accomplished over many years through both friendly and hostile tribes, with some elements of the tribe opting to stay on in friendly places further north was essentially the same migration that the South Island tribe Ngai Tahu had made befor them,

              Mamoe having recently vacated the lands the original inhabitants Ngati Tara had allocated them for the South allowed Manaakitanga to be extended and my lot who then occupied those vacated lands,

              Thus the situation existed for a further 500 years until the next wave of internal migration occurred in the later part of the 1700’s and the early years of 1800…

        • bad12 5.2.1.2
          14 June 2014 at 3:26 pm

          Interesting this ”better life” Phillip, to gain this better life your ancestors first had to remove from those that were already present here their ”standard of living”…

  6. dimebag russell 6
    14 June 2014 at 8:52 am

    they must be pretty stoned then.

  7. DH 7
    14 June 2014 at 9:09 am

    There’s been a lot of claims about Kiwis being poor savers and other claims that renting is better than owning a home. I thought I’d try some maths on it, may interest people;

    The basis of the rent discussion was this article here;

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9776610/Low-rents-deter-home-buyers

    With a follow up here;

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=11237251

    To summarise; a person renting a $427k house at $450 per week paid $7193 pa less than a person buying the $427k house with a 20% deposit of $85k. Therefore the renter was financially better off and was renting by choice. So says the property investors federation.

    The numbers tell a different story. For the below calculations we’ve assumed a longrun interest rate on savings of 4% after tax and annual inflation of 3% on both housing and rents**.

    A person who rented and saved the $85k & $7193 pa would have saved $499,000 after 25 years (that’s with interest compounded).

    A $427,000 house will be worth $868,000 in 25 years time.

    A person paying $450 week rent now will be paying $915 week in 25 years. They will have paid an extra $268,000 in rent increases, for total rent payments of $853,000.

    The home buyer will have a $868,000 freehold house in 25yrs. They would have some increased costs from inflation on maintenance, rates, insurance, interest rate changes etc so allow $100k in ownership costs. They would have no rent increases, they’d save the $268k-$100k which would compound to $228,000.

    The renter will have nett savings of $499k and continue to pay rent.
    The home buyer will have nett savings of $1.09 million and have no more mortgage payments.

    A Kiwisaver account returning 4% after tax will need a $1.19 million balance just to pay $915 per week rent, deduct the $499k savings and the renter would need to contribute $699,000 more than the home owner. You’d have to save over $293 per week, at 4% compounding, to achieve that $699k in 25 yrs. Even at an optimistic 6% return you’d still need to save almost $180 week for a balance of $470k. And that’s just to pay the rent in your retirement… without allowing for future rent inflation.

    Clearly the renter is worse off financially by a very wide margin while we have housing inflation. It’s also clear that buying your own home ranks as saving, no real surprise why people are borrowing rather than paying more into Kiwisaver.

    Feel free to find flaws in my maths…..

    ** 4% is fairly generous, that’s term deposit rates after withholding tax is deducted and you wouldn’t get that much compounding when you’re banking your savings weekly. 3% rent & housing inflation is conversely conservative, historical inflation was higher.

    • Ad 7.1
      14 June 2014 at 10:05 am

      Nice work there.

      Do you think overall New Zealanders are saving more for their retirement than prior to Kiwisaver?

      What futher instruments beyond Kiwisaver should a future Government propose that would acelerate our savings rate?

      • DH 7.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 12:17 pm

        “Do you think overall New Zealanders are saving more for their retirement than prior to Kiwisaver?”

        I don’t know the figures, a point I was making there was that paying off a mortgage is saving. The word ‘saving’ really needs to be reappraised in this context.

        “What futher instruments beyond Kiwisaver should a future Government propose that would acelerate our savings rate?”

        Well again, what do you call ‘saving’ ? As things stand most renters would be saving more for their retirement paying off a mortgage than they would putting the money into Kiwisaver.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 12:26 pm

          Bear in mind the big difference in liquidity between having half a million accessible in savings accounts and a million dollars not accessible locked up in the bricks and mortar of a house.

          • DH 7.1.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 1:14 pm

            Is there really that much difference? To get decent interest rates on savings you need to lock them up on term deposit for 5 yrs. (90day TP rates are 3%, 12month 4% and 5yrs 5.5%, before tax) There’s other options but anything offering good returns usually requires locking the funds up for a period. Can sell a house quicker than that.

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 4:27 pm

              Uh, no. Firstly you haven’t thought that you might only need say $100K in a hurry. Trying to sell a $1M house to try and find $100K of liquidity is silly. Your commission would set you back an extra $30K upfront, for instance, which is a very big cost on trying to access just $100K.

              And, no one puts $500K into a single 5 year term deposit.

              What they might do is split it into ten $50K deposits. Put them in for 12 month rolling terms, just over a month apart. That way every 5 weeks or so you have the option of accessing one lot of $50K with no interest penalty.

              • Lanthanide …
                14 June 2014 at 5:00 pm

                Firstly you haven’t thought that you might only need say $100K in a hurry. Trying to sell a $1M house to try and find $100K of liquidity is silly.

                That’s why we have these things called “mortgages”, where they lend you money held against your “security”, aka the house.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 June 2014 at 5:02 pm

                  That’s fine Lanth, but when you’re retired, living on a significantly lower income, and almost all your net worth is tied up in your house as in this scenario, how are you going to service the mortgage without selling your home?

                  • Lanthanide …
                    14 June 2014 at 5:08 pm

                    If you’re retired and need $100k for something, and don’t want to sell the house, then a reverse equity mortgage is the instrument you need.

                    What you’re actually saying here is “you need $100k to pay for some emergency”. In the case of access to readily liquid money, the costs on accessing this $100k will be much less than if you owned a house. Big whoop. If you own a house and end up with several hundred thousand more in assets than in the other case, even if there’s more of a penalty if you need to access the cash, you still come out ahead.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 June 2014 at 5:13 pm

                      Look that’s fine. Using your home as the basis of your retirement savings has been the NZ way for decades. Retirees don’t usually get reverse mortgages in NZ though, they just tend to “downsize.”

                    • Lanthanide …
                      14 June 2014 at 5:16 pm

                      Reverse equity mortgages have only been available recently, IIRC first available around 2004-2005, and then dried up during the GFC, but they are now available again.

              • DH …
                14 June 2014 at 8:32 pm

                “Firstly you haven’t thought that you might only need say $100K in a hurry.”

                No big deal, the homeowner has saved $228,000 in cash from avoided rent increases.

                I added that rather than deducted it off the renters savings because it would equate roughly to wage increases that the home owner can save and the renter has to pay in rent increases.

                I’ve applied the same scenario to both because it’s the only way you can make an honest comparison. In reality many people would probably downsize or move during a 25yr term but if you keep doing the comparison it would still work out similar.

    • ianmac 7.2
      14 June 2014 at 10:13 am

      And when I saw my sister’s final mortage repayments a few years ago it was funny. She was paying $3.50 per week back to the State Advances. Wow! Cheap rent eh? Decades earlier the mortgage repayments would have been huge against their income but steadily as wages increase so the difficulty of repayments diminish.

    • Colonial Viper 7.3
      14 June 2014 at 10:21 am

      The home buyer will have a $868,000 freehold house in 25yrs. They would have some increased costs from inflation on maintenance, rates, insurance, interest rate changes etc so allow $100k in ownership costs.

      Ownership costs are going to be closer to $200,000, I think.

      Just looking up the typical $260,000 ~median house here in Dunedin. (Yes it’s that low).

      City council rates of $1900, regional council rates of $130, p.a. If rates kept completely static that’s $50K just in rates over 25 years – and we know that those rates are going nowhere but up.

      • DH 7.3.1
        14 June 2014 at 11:05 am

        “Ownership costs are going to be closer to $200,000, I think.”

        They included that in the $7193 pa difference, I just added more to cover inflation and possible changes in interest rates.

      • Tracey 7.3.2
        14 June 2014 at 2:34 pm

        Sorry, are you saying rates on a 260k house in dunedin are 1900pa

        • Colonial Viper 7.3.2.1
          14 June 2014 at 2:37 pm

          yes. Approx. to say +/-5%.

          • Tracey 7.3.2.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 2:45 pm

            That seems way higher than auckland

            • Colonial Viper 7.3.2.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 3:26 pm

              Well we have a nice covered sports stadium to pay off. I also suspect that trying to service a city with a much lower population density than Auckland (the official city boundaries for Dunedin are huge) is expensive.

    • karol 7.4
      14 June 2014 at 11:31 am

      Well, it also depends on a lot of factors, for me, and the kind of life/society I want to live in. As a single person, I am quite happy with minimalistic rental accommodation – less than half the weekly cost you cite above.I am a lifetime renter by choice. I have reasonable freedom of movement, and no desire to perpetuate the self-centred profiteering outlook that permeates the home buying market ethos. It’s always been a turn-off for me.

      And your comment is just all about the benefits to the individual home buyers, while renters who don’t have a choice are exploited by the whole ethos.

      I have watched while my parents generation end up having to give up their homes and go into resthomes. Ultimately, home ownership is no guarantee for life accommodation. I have enough money in life savings and pension schemes to see me through my retirment. Others don’t, and their circumstnces will not be fixed by perpetuating the focus on the benefits to the individuals who can afford it, to buy their own homes.

      • DH 7.4.1
        14 June 2014 at 12:54 pm

        I’m not making a punt for home ownership Karol, I’m merely putting up some numbers to show how seriously disadvantaged people can be financially if they put their cash in the bank (or Kiwisaver et al) instead of buying a house.

        I would think the message is that the situation needs rebalancing, possibly even reversing. If the Govt wants us to save then they need to do something to make it worthwhile. Instead they feed us bullshit.

      • geoff 7.4.2
        14 June 2014 at 1:06 pm

        +1 karol

        The obsession with owning property is just a coping strategy people have adopted to protect themselves from the economic decline that is happening all around them.

        While plastic crap and electronics gets ever cheaper, all the essentials in life, food, shelter, electricity get more expensive year on year.

        I was going to say NZ should take a leaf out of Germany’s book, but it seems even they have succumbed to the Western disease:

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/13/berlin-property-boom-germans-end-home-rental

        • Colonial Viper 7.4.2.1
          14 June 2014 at 1:16 pm

          The obsession with owning property is just a coping strategy people have adopted to protect themselves from the economic decline that is happening all around them.

          It’s the natural and intelligent response to the increasing rewards of participating in a property price bubble and the decreasing rewards of hour by hour wages.

          • geoff 7.4.2.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 1:20 pm

            Some mix of fear plus greed. The key ingredients for capitalism.

          • karol 7.4.2.1.2
            14 June 2014 at 6:28 pm

            It’s the natural and intelligent response

            For those on middle and upper range incomes.

            • DH 7.4.2.1.2.1
              14 June 2014 at 9:14 pm

              “For those on middle and upper range incomes.”

              Yup. I do take it for granted that people understand this is primarily about those on lower incomes who for whatever reason are not, and probably never will be, in a position to buy a house. I’m not personally affected by it, I have the luxury of choice.

              In reality few people would be able to save the $85k deposit in the first place, they wouldn’t save anything like $499k even if they did have the $7193 pa in disposable income.

              We’ve had housing inflation since the seventies, what’s changed is back then NZ had similar inflation on everything and regular wage rises to cover it. Since the RBNZ started meddling we’ve had high inflation only on housing and wages are pegged to consumer inflation which is much lower.

              IMO the root cause of the growing inequality in NZ is housing.

      • geoff 7.4.3
        14 June 2014 at 1:35 pm

        http://www.thebubblebubble.com/germany-housing-bubble/

        This article is interesting, it suggest the German property boom is a reaction to the very low euro-zone interest rates which were implemented to stop the eurozone collapsing.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.5
      14 June 2014 at 11:44 am

      There’s been a lot of claims about Kiwis being poor savers and other claims that renting is better than owning a home.

      I’m pretty sure that that is a fiction spread by the rentiers so that they can boost their own income.

      Things is, I actually think renting is better – so long as it’s state rentals done at cost and that cost doesn’t include getting the price of the building back.

    • felix 7.6
      14 June 2014 at 5:01 pm

      The renter will have nett savings of $499k and continue to pay rent.
      The home buyer will have nett savings of $1.09 million and have no more mortgage payments.

      Not really. The home buyer EITHER has a million bucks OR a mortgage free house. You can’t cash up the house AND have no mortgage/rent payments.

      • DH 7.6.1
        14 June 2014 at 9:39 pm

        I think you’re missing the purpose. I presented a snapshot of the relative financial positions people would be in after a 25 yr term. Whether freehold house or cash in the bank, they’re both savings in this context. I used 25 yrs because that’s how long a mortgage is, it’s easier to do the calculations. Take it out to 35-40 yrs as a retirement projection for 25-30yr olds and the homeowner would probably be up by another $million.

        • Colonial Viper 7.6.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 9:45 pm

          Worth bearing in mind that these are all smooth-run scenarios

          Redundancies, divorces, illness, housing crashes etc can drastically change the picture

          • DH 7.6.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 10:15 pm

            Yeah they can, it’s a generalisation but I can’t think of any better way to do it. I do think it would apply to the majority though, can proportionately cut all the figures for cheaper houses & they’d still work out to the same ratios.

            There’s also the provinces to be covered, my numbers are really about the big cities. Homeowners in many provincal areas may be worse off than renters. All this newfound property wealth hasn’t been spread evenly around has it.

        • felix 7.6.1.2
          15 June 2014 at 4:57 am

          Yes DH they’re obviously both savings but in the case of the home owner you’ve counted the same savings twice.

          You counted a million-odd in savings AND a mortgage-free house. That’s just not true.

  8. yeshe 8
    14 June 2014 at 9:19 am

    Controls on GMO’s too tight, according to the ignorant, self-serving and dangerous Amy Adams in the Herald overnight .. but gone this morning from the web page, anyway as far as
    i can see.

    THIS HAS TO BE AN ELECTION ISSUE. Adams has prevented other councils from having their individual non-GMO status — for sure, this insane govt will change the laws if they get another term.

    Her submission to Auckland on Unitary Plan includes this:

    “Proposals to control genetically modified organisms were also unduly and unnecessarily stringent, she said.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11273582

    No thanks Amy, sod off.

    • Tautoko Viper 8.1
      14 June 2014 at 4:32 pm

      +1 Yeshe
      Amy Adams, Tim Groser and Phil Goff all need to read the article entitled “Pesticide and GMO Companies Spend Big in Hawai’i”
      https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/06/12-1

      “Kaua’i County — consisting primarily of the island of Kaua’i, known as Hawai’i’s “Garden Isle” and home to Waimea Canyon State Park — passed a law in November 2013 that requires disclosure of pesticide use and GMO crops sewn by growers and created buffer zones around schools, parks, medical facilities, and private residences. The law is set to go into effect in August 2014.

      Hawai’i County banned GMOs altogether in November 2013, and a Maui County initiative to ban GMOs recently obtained enough citizen signatures to be placed on the November 2014 ballot.

      Since experiencing these setbacks, the big agricultural firms have retaliated in a big way.

      Syngenta, DuPont Pioneer, Agrigenetics (doing business as Dow AgroSciences), and BASF have sued Kaua’i to block its law.”

      NZ needs to say NO to GMO, No to TPPA (which allows these Big GMO and Pesticide companies to sue under the investor-state dispute system and NO to Amy Adams’s efforts to remove the voices of people in the regions.
      Tim Groser-Hoping that agricultural tariffs are removed in 20 year’s time in return for selling out to these amoral Corporate Bullies is treason. (Hear that Phil Goff?)

      • yeshe 8.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 8:09 pm

        +1 back again! It’s remained my greatest fear from the TPPA that Monsanto will destroy our food and environment … I can but say again, it has to be an election issue .. appreciate your thoughts, thanks. They all need to sod off !

  9. geoff 9
    14 June 2014 at 9:27 am

    I’m not even going to link to it but Chris Trotter’s last blog piece on Bowalley Road is dire.
    The guy has clearly got it in for the Labour party, attacking Cunliffe at every chance.

    I’ll add that this isn’t just his internet bletherings like the rest of us, this was published in 5 NZ newspapers.

    I probably wouldn’t mind his criticism if it was well founded but Chris’s arguments have degenerated into mysticism. In the last one he essentially says that he thinks that Cunliffe just doesn’t have the ‘gut instinct’ whereas key does.

    He then goes on to compare with previous leaders ( Gough Whitlam, Norm Kirk), all who according to the political oracle, Chris Trotter, had the ‘gut instinct’

    It all reads a bit like something Steven Colbert would do, the truthiness levels are sky high.

    And as one commenter said beneath the article, both Whitlam and Kirk lost elections before they won them. As did Helen Clark I believe.

    • swordfish 9.1
      14 June 2014 at 10:06 am

      “And as one commenter said beneath the article…”

      Yeah, that was me, I’m afraid. Always been markus on Bowalley Road and Brian Edwards Media and, of course, swordfish here and occasionally on one or two other blogs.

    • ianmac 9.2
      14 June 2014 at 10:17 am

      As Fran Sullivan says Key is heavily reliant on polling to decide directions safe enough to pursue. His gut instinct is thanks to Farrar. I doubt that Opposition parties can afford the luxury of polling. But would they if they could afford it?

      • geoff 9.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 10:25 am

        National does way more polling than any other party. They can afford it.

        But you’re right, and Fran O’Sullivan has hit on a major difference between Key and Cunliffe.
        One has polls and the other has principles.

      • Tracey 9.2.2
        14 June 2014 at 2:39 pm

        Relying on polling, as you rightly say, is not the same as gut feeling or instinct.

    • amirite 9.3
      14 June 2014 at 2:13 pm

      “And as one commenter said beneath the article, both Whitlam and Kirk lost elections before they won them. As did Helen Clark I believe.”

      geoff, the difference being that if David Cunliffe loses the election he’ll probably lose the leadership too.

      • geoff 9.3.1
        14 June 2014 at 2:42 pm

        I don’t think he will.

        Remember that Cunliffe signifies the power of the membership & the unions over the self-serving members of the caucus.

        If the caucus manage to pry the leadership from Cunliffe, against the wishes of the membership and the unions, then that will be the end of the Labour party.

        • Lanthanide 9.3.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 5:06 pm

          It’s ultimately Cunliffe’s decision. If he doesn’t want the job, for whatever reason, he’ll step aside and the membership and unions can’t do anything about that.

          • geoff 9.3.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 5:30 pm

            It’s not his decision if he wants to stay and gets kicked out.

            • Lanthanide 9.3.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 6:36 pm

              How would you know he got “kicked out”?

              • geoff …
                14 June 2014 at 7:47 pm

                Huh?
                Are you being obtuse?

                If Cunliffe is challenged for the leadership and then gets voted out then that’s what i mean by being kicked out.

                • Lanthanide …
                  14 June 2014 at 10:06 pm

                  “If the caucus manage to pry the leadership from Cunliffe, against the wishes of the membership and the unions, then that will be the end of the Labour party.”

                  “If Cunliffe is challenged for the leadership and then gets voted out then that’s what i mean by being kicked out.”

                  This would require at least some of the unions and membership to vote against Cunliffe, since the caucus only gets 40% of the total share. It’s also likely that Cunliffe would get at least 8-10 votes out of the total caucus, so I would suggest any challenger that fairly won in a vote would have had to be supported by a large share of the membership and unions, if not the majority. Which is, you know, democratic.

                  • geoff …
                    14 June 2014 at 10:36 pm

                    That’s correct. I’ve no argument with that.

                    But that is all irrelevant when addressing what you originally stated which is, It’s ultimately Cunliffe’s decision..
                    As you said yourself, if he’s democratically voted out then it isn’t his decision at all.

  10. karol 10
    14 June 2014 at 9:48 am

    It’s bad to hear that some people in West Auckland still have no power after this week’s storm. There should have been, and continue to be, more public information about the current and on-going state of play on this.

    Good on the Weekend Herald for giving an update.

    The worst cases are the people still without any electricity – as with the Glen Eden couple featured in the article.

    I and a neighbour have been without hot water since the storm. We have been told it’s on the to do list, but not the highest priority. Of course, people with no electricity at all should be attended to first, but we’ve had no info on what’s happening on that front.

    We are fortunate in having electricity for everything else but hot water.

    But, it’s been hard to get anything other than some very general comments about the current situation.

    It’s mainly the showers I miss – washing in a bowl of heated (in a kettle, on the stove) water is getting to be a pain, but do-able.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.1
      14 June 2014 at 10:02 am

      Privatisation and profit drive are just sooo much better than the government providing adequate services at cost.

      /sarc

      • karol 10.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 10:13 am

        Yeah, that to. What is appalling is that the lack of info about what is happening. At first I accepted the information given. Last night and this morning I had begun to fear nothing was being done, and our situation had been overlooked – or that maybe our situation was failure just at delivery of hot water to me and my neighbour due to a very local fault at point of delivery.

        The powercos don’t seem to respect their customers enough to provide adequate public info about what is happening.

    • Ad 10.2
      14 June 2014 at 10:07 am

      Pull down the Vector app onto your phone and you will get pretty fast updates.

      Also a smart electrician can fix your hot water cylinder so that the lines company cannot trip the water heater mechanism again.

      • karol 10.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 10:14 am

        Fixing the heater mechanism is up to my landlord.

        Why do you assume I have a phone with access to such aps?

        • Ad 10.2.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 10:31 am

          Then pull it onto your computer.

          The heater mechanism is supposed to be able to be shut off by the lines company so that they can respond to the whole grid in times of high stress. Over to you if you don’t want a way around that.

        • ianmac 10.2.1.2
          14 June 2014 at 11:06 am

          A while ago I lost my hot water heating. Everything seemed in order but it was the meter itself that had failed. Trustpower replaced the meter but in the meantime a friendly electrician by-passed the meter to give us H/W.
          That is no help to you but a phone call to your supplier should get action. Don’t you miss it when it is not there. Sympathy.

          • karol 10.2.1.2.1
            14 June 2014 at 11:19 am

            The thing is, the landlord lives on premises and all the electricity, heating etc goes through their supply. I am dependent on their communications with the suppliers, and on how they arrange the connections etc.

            So, ultimately, if the companies gave full information to the public then I would be certain of what is happening. There is no news on the powerco website.

      • bad12 10.2.2
        14 June 2014 at 3:18 pm

        True Ad, such rationing hasn’t happened here in Wellington for so long i cannot remember when the last time the ability for the power Co to shut off the hot water heating component of electricity supply was used,

        i have tho lived in areas where this form of rationing has been more common place, my fix, wire in the 3 point end of a extension cord alongside of the existing wiring, make this safe by cutting from the extension cord the female end with no wiring protruding,

        Then, at times when the power supply to the hot water cylinder has been cut all that is required is an extension cord plugged into a normal household socket and plugged into the cylinder by removal of the dummy female plug end,

        Warning!!! do not try this at home, it could be described as dangerous for the electrically illiterate and is more than likely illegal as well…

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    14 June 2014 at 10:11 am

    Testing a six-hour work day

    Greece, on paper, is the second-hardest working country measured by the OECD, its people putting in an average of 2033 hours of toil a year.
    Greece is also bankrupt.

    Evidence is mounting that long hours do not equal productivity, and may even indicate the opposite. It’s one of the reasons Sweden is about to try a six-hour working day in Gothenburg with a view to making it a national policy. Swedish workers already put in considerably fewer hours than New Zealanders, but are economically considerably better off – counter-intuitive to our constant self-exhortations to “work harder!”

    For the last 30 years, since the neo-liberal revolution brought in by the 4th Labour government, NZers have been working ever harder but we’ve pretty much failed in working smarter. We’ve been doing things the same way but doing more of it rather than looking for better ways to do it.

    • geoff 11.1
      14 June 2014 at 1:15 pm

      Why pay for expensive capital to improve productivity when you can just change the employment laws and pay people less. Easy eh?

    • Tracey 11.2
      14 June 2014 at 2:43 pm

      Thats cos more and more people are doing one and a half to two peoples jobs for thw same money

  12. phillip ure 12
    14 June 2014 at 10:11 am

    why is gower interviewing an e.t.-impersonator..?

    ..and brace yrslves for farrar pontificating on child-poverty (falsely) thus:

    ..’you can’t solve problems like this by just throwing more money at them..

    ..it’s much more complicated/complex than that..’

    ..as the excuse to continue to just do nothing..

    ..this is the pile of stinking-randite/neo-lib bullshit farrar has been peddling since forever..

    ..he probably has it on an app..titled ‘rightwing-lies..a daily guide/how-to..’..

    • phillip ure 12.1
      14 June 2014 at 10:40 am

      well..i was wrong..

      ..despite the interviews with boston and the childrens’ commissioner on child-poverty;..what to do..?..being the most interesting part of what came before..

      ..the numpties @ the nation instead deciding that banging on about the e.t.-impersonater for most of their on-air time..

      ..will key..?..won’t key..?..

      ..is/was much more important an issue than that child-poverty frivolity..

      (pfftt..!!..eh..?..best just ignore that ‘silly’ wills..our paychecks/tax-rates are at risk here..this is serious..!..(see later..)

      ..and there is ‘a moment’ in the interview owen does with the childrens’ commssioner..

      ..(where she spent half the time trying to play wedge-politics oldies vs. children in poverty..who would we prefer to hurt..?)

      ..the moment comes after the commissioner disabuses her of that fanciful-‘wedge’-notion/solution..

      ..and she..her thesis thrashed/demolished.. (querolously) says:..’so who do we have to look to to help solve this..?’

      ..wills/commissioner (calmly) answers:..’people like you and me ..lisa..’

      ..owen actually squirmed in her seat/looked decidedly uncomfortable..shaken even.. at that revelation from wills..

      ..that was ‘the moment’..

      ..(that maybe dictated that panel-silence..?..on that frivilous/trivial issue of child-poverty..)

      ..this is the sad/irrelevant excuse for public/current-affairs commentary/taxpayer-funded broadcasting we are forced to endure..

      • phillip ure 12.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 12:28 pm

        i hope the next govt keeps on wills as the childrens’ commissioner..

        ..(one of the few good things key/this govt did..appointing wills as childrens’ commissioner..

        ..and i don’t think he turned out as they hoped/expected..)

        ..he so much looks like he knows what to do..

        ..to fix up what is so wrong..

        ..and is just itching to get cracking..

        ..and it wd be a shame to lose those skills/that institutional-knowledge gained..

        ..and he would fit in very nicely with the aspirations of a progressive government..

        ..that childrens’ commissioner wills..

  13. Chooky 13
    14 June 2014 at 12:04 pm

    Home Thoughts From Abroad:

    ‘Taking freedom for granted’

    By Michael Timmins / June 11, 2014

    “At the moment I am writing this in Quetta, Baluchistan, scene of a current insurgency with simmering sectarian violence thrown in as well. There are differing reports, but there was a bomb here this weekend killing over 20 people. Regular news in these here parts….Men’s egos and desire for power overcoming the ability of regular folks to live without fear. This is not at all helped by the “advances” of technology and the use of unmanned aerial vehicles to mete out a peculiar form of justice with a direct relevance in this part of the world…..

    In saying that, and I want to emphasise that I am not suggesting a parallel between the two countries, I got to thinking today about our little country. I had to acknowledge, as I acknowledge my own privilege in writing this, that there are people who live in New Zealand in fear. To them, the rock-star economy is illusive. They can’t even buy a ticket to see the rock-star economy. Actually, many don’t even get to join the queue.
    The egos of men, this relentless pursuit of short-term profit at any cost, the commodification of education, our covert surveillance, an elected elite providing consistent evidence of corruption, and the decision to ignore or even deny privilege, all narrows the scope of our achievement and ultimately denies our potential…..

  14. Penny Bright 14
    14 June 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Ok folks – focusing on the IMPORTANT stuff? 🙂

    5 sitting weeks to go and corrupt Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ (whose passage is required before NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) is still nowhere to be seen on the Parliamentary Order Paper.

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00HOHOrderPaper1/557820959ded99caaa42250414a4391d6d0fa908

    How does NZ deserve a seat on the UN Security Council when we (and I use the ‘we’ word very lightly’ haven’t even got our domestic anti-corruption legislative framework in place?

    Seriously?

    How competent and ‘fit for duty’ is Judith Collins as Minister of Justice – swanning around overseas, getting her ‘look at me me me’ photo taken with celebrities, when CRITICAL legislation, which is HER responsibility – the ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ – which she PROMISED would be introduced last year, is nowhere to be seen ….

    What a disgrace.

    And NZ Prime Minister John Key still supports this corrupt, incompetent Minister?

    What does that say about his ‘fitness for duty’ as Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party?

    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

  15. Penny Bright 15
    14 June 2014 at 12:50 pm

    No disrespect – but Chris Trotter knew nothing about the Committee for Auckland (who really run the Auckland region) until after the 2013 Auckland election – when I potted them to 1.4 million people in my 150 word candidate statement.

    So – in terms of how informed Chris really is as a political commentator?

    Not particularly, when it comes to some KEY issues, in my considered opinion.

    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

  16. marty mars 16
    14 June 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Good article worth a read entitled,

    ” The Dark Side of the “Green Economy” – Why some indigenous groups and environmentalists are saying no to the “green economy.”

    A quote from the body

    “The Green Economy is a perverse attempt by corporations, extractive industries, and governments to cash in on Creation by privatizing, commodifying, and selling off the Sacred and all forms of life and the sky, including the air we breathe, the water we drink, and all the genes, plants, traditional seeds, trees, animals, fish, biological and cultural diversity, ecosystems and traditional knowledge that make life on Earth possible and enjoyable.”

    http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/its-your-body/going-against-the-green

    I like green but too often these ideas get co-opted by capitalism and the elite for their own gain.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1
      14 June 2014 at 1:01 pm

      looking forward to you speaking out against dairy intensification and the pillaging of protein from the sea – no matter who is benefitting from it.

      • geoff 16.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 1:17 pm

        Are you vegetarian, CV?

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 2:24 pm

          Nope not at all

          • geoff 16.1.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 2:44 pm

            What are your thoughts on the contribution that meat-eating has to climate change?

            • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 4:18 pm

              China used 3.5B tonnes of coal last year. That’s 800kg for every man woman and child in NZ. Ask yourself how much of that was used to produce the meat patties in the Double Whopper I had today. If you answer “none” then you would be correct.

              • Lanthanide …
                14 June 2014 at 5:12 pm

                “Food miles” are really over-represented when it comes to actual carbon emissions, because food is transported in bulk.

                By far the highest emission point in getting food from the farm to your table is the final ~1-10km trip from your house to the supermarket and back again in the car.

                There was a study down showing that beef and lamb shipped to the UK and consumed there had lower carbon emissions than UK-sourced lamb and beef, simply because in NZ we have open paddocks to keep the livestock rather than heated/ventilated/serviced/etc sheds.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 June 2014 at 5:29 pm

                  Inputs like the manufacture and application of fertiliser and pesticides are the biggies IMO…and that includes for feedstock…

              • geoff …
                14 June 2014 at 5:27 pm

                CV, that’s the same argument the right uses to say we shouldn’t bother taxing carbon.

                http://www.salon.com/2014/03/31/we_cant_stop_global_warming_unless_we_start_eating_a_lot_less_meat/

                • Colonial Viper …
                  14 June 2014 at 5:35 pm

                  Well, I would agree with them that we shouldn’t bother taxing carbon. It’s a waste of time.

                  What we should be doing within the next 3 years:

                  Get 25% of cars and trucks off the road, put in place public transport powered by renewables, reinstitute trains all over the country mostly electric ones, get coastal shipping up and running properly, and get rid of half the cows in the country.

                  That’s what needs to happen. IF we are serious about setting a climate change example and if we are serious about readying for energy depletion. How much of that will a carbon tax achieve – none of it.

                  IMO what is a carbon tax for except to delay and make it appear like Govt is being proactive about climate change. The Tories will be back in power in 3 or 6 or 9 years and gut the carbon tax so its symbolic at best.

                  We don’t have 20 years to start making in roads to this problem. That was back when Limits to Growth was published, in the early 70’s. Now, we have 20 years to get sorted full stop and waiting 10 years for a carbon tax to kick in and have effects is too too late.

                  • geoff …
                    14 June 2014 at 6:18 pm

                    nevertheless, the huge required drop in emissions means people will have to eat far less meat, at least as it is presently produced.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      14 June 2014 at 6:30 pm

                      I have no problem with that. 3.5B people in the world would be lucky to have any meat even once a week. But its this kind of personal lifestyle fixation which really gets me when the problems we are facing are on a societal/civilisation scale.

                      We have to get a quarter million or half a million fossil fuel vehicles off NZ roads in the next few years and replace that capacity with renewable energy powered alternatives and public transport. Worrying about an end to Big Macs is the least of our concerns.

                    • geoff …
                      14 June 2014 at 7:38 pm

                      I don’t see how it is personal lifestyle fixation.

                      It’s just recognising that less meat has to be eaten.

                      I think you could be wrong to dismiss agriculture’s contribution to climate change.

                      This page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_and_agriculture

                      has a graph at the top which shows contribution to greenhouse gas emissions by sector.
                      The agricultural by products contribution (12.5%) is almost as big as the transportation fuels (14%) contribution.
                      That suggests you could save as much by laying off the big macs as you could by your preferred option of cutting back on fossil-fuel-based transport.

                      That article also states:

                      Land use change such as deforestation and desertification, together with use of fossil fuels, are the major anthropogenic sources of carbon dioxide;

                      and the deforestation wiki page states:

                      According to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) secretariat, the overwhelming direct cause of deforestation is agriculture. Subsistence farming is responsible for 48% of deforestation; commercial agriculture is responsible for 32% of deforestation; logging is responsible for 14% of deforestation and fuel wood removals make up 5% of deforestation.

                      This suggests to me that agriculture is a huge contributor to climate change.

      • marty mars 16.1.2
        14 June 2014 at 1:57 pm

        I am against dairy intensification especially very large herd sizes, the draining of wetlands to create areas to grow cows where cows shouldn’t be, pollution of our waterways (I’d make the farmers get their water downstream of their farms for their personal use and the commodification of animals. I don’t eat animals. I am opposed to commercial fishing especially where slave labour is used on ships and the overfishing of species. I don’t eat fish.

        I oppose those activities no matter who is doing it.

    • Ad 16.2
      14 June 2014 at 1:37 pm

      Sounds like you’ve come straight out of too much postwar Heidegger; The Question Concerning Technology.

      I am quietly amazed by the many who are still quoting absurdist theory this close to an election.

      The time for policy rumination and moist Left melancholy is gone. All we have time for is mobilisation and fundraising. After the next month, even fundraising will be too late.

      • marty mars 16.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 2:16 pm

        “Sounds like you’ve come straight out of too much postwar Heidegger; The Question Concerning Technology.”

        Not really but it was an interesting read – thanks.

  17. Penny Bright 17
    14 June 2014 at 1:02 pm

    To keep Chris Trotter directly in the loop – I’ve just posted this on his blog.

    (It’s yet to be published – all posts are subject to moderation):

    “No disrespect – but Chris – you knew nothing about the Committee for Auckland (who really run the Auckland region) until after the 2013 Auckland election – when I potted them to 1.4 million people in my 150 word candidate statement.

    So – in terms of how informed you really is as a political commentator?

    Not particularly, when it comes to some KEY issues, in my considered opinion.

    John Key is an ex-Wall St banker, who helped to set up the dodgy derivatives market when he worked at Merrill Lynch, the collapse of which caused the Global Financial Crisis.

    That’s one of the main reasons why I shall be standing against John Key in Helensvile as an Independent Anti-Corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’ – in order to confront him directly on such issues.

    You may recall that I polled 4th in the Auckland 2013 Mayoral campaign, polling nearly 12,000 votes.

    Did YOU predict that Chris?

    How about the committal for trial and subsequent guilty verdict of John Banks for electoral fraud?

    Did YOU predict that Chris?

    Kind regards,
    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com “

    • Clemgeopin 17.1
      14 June 2014 at 7:11 pm

      Penny Bright, I do not know much about you apart from reading your posts here which show that you are a determined person pursuing important public interest issues. That is really commendable when we see the lack of active interest and apathy shown by many people towards politics. Good on you.

      Have you tried putting yourself as a candidate for any of the progressive parties to fight the election? If not, why not?

  18. fisiani 18
    14 June 2014 at 1:58 pm

    21% is the crucial number for Labour List MP’s. With Labour likely to gain Kelston and Christchurch Central electorates the number of List MP’s shrinks to 0 when the Labour vote collapses in September. Goff Shearer Mallard, King would all be safe but the stalwarts like David Parker would be gone.

    • North 18.1
      14 June 2014 at 2:21 pm

      As alerted by someone recently…….FizzyAnus hard out sweet talking himself while one hand typing…….again.

    • McFlock 18.2
      14 June 2014 at 3:19 pm

      47% is the crucial number for National. Any less than that and they are in opposition, or have a neolib pyrrhic coalition with “no asset sales” NZ1.

      • fisiani 18.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 3:54 pm

        Correct for once McFlock. That’s why National currently polling 52.5% is aiming to go even higher and given the unstable fragmented backwards looking extremist opposition seems highly likely to do so.
        BTW 47% with Winston First polling 4.5% is equivalent to National polling 49.2% which would easily be enough.

        • bad12 18.2.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 4:06 pm

          You have to wonder whether Fis doesn’t see His huge ability as the ”sage” as wasted here at the Standard,

          Such a grand display of matakite coupled with an immense flight of fantasy evident in every comment would make Fis a sitter as the author of fantasy in some soft porn publication…

          • fisiani 18.2.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 4:57 pm

            As a sage I can give you some free advice. Ian Lees-Galloway in Palmerston North needs a high list ranking to be an MP after the election. National have attracted a star candidate in Jono Naylor who is the current and three time mayor of Palmerston North. He is admired by both Left and Right and has higher name recognition than anyone else in the Manawatu.
            That is one of two seats that National will gain.

            • bad12 18.2.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 5:21 pm

              As a sage Fis you are stuck in the FPP past, who cares who the representative for Palmerston North is except those who live in the past of the First Past the Post electoral system,

              (geez don’t say that you live there, now that would explain a thing or two, a mind such as found in ”the Tron” but twice as small)…

              • fisiani …
                14 June 2014 at 6:04 pm

                Who cares? Are you thick? ILG was ranked number 37. If he does not win PN then he is a goneburger. If he somehow wins then someone higher ranked on the list loses out eg Jacinda.

                • McFlock …
                  14 June 2014 at 6:24 pm

                  so IF labour do as badly this time as national did in 2002, you might have a point.

                  Keep that hubris, it can only help the country get the government it needs, rather than this current regime of the corrupt and the incompetent.

                  • fisiani …
                    14 June 2014 at 6:45 pm

                    I do not expect Labour to score as high as National in 2002. The phone is off the hook.

                    • bad12 …
                      14 June 2014 at 6:53 pm

                      Fis, the phone is definitely off the hook, if your wanting to find it just engage in a little contortion, its jammed in that place the sun don’t ever shine…

                    • McFlock …
                      14 June 2014 at 7:12 pm

                      Fisi says Labour <21% in September.
                      you heard it here first.

        • McFlock 18.2.1.2
          14 June 2014 at 6:18 pm

          the difference between what national polls and what it gets in the election was palpable last time.
          And they’re polling lower now.

          And Winston just needs to get to 5% to be in on the tory-fucking party.
          Tell us, oh sage, did you make any predictions about how banksies court case would go? 🙂

          • fisiani 18.2.1.2.1
            14 June 2014 at 6:48 pm

            Got Banks verdict spot on and took money off suckers who longed for a by-election on ipredict. Going to make a packet on Palm North and one other electorate.

            • bad12 18.2.1.2.1.1
              14 June 2014 at 6:54 pm

              Bullshit…

            • McFlock 18.2.1.2.1.2
              14 June 2014 at 7:06 pm

              got a link for you predicting banks verdict here?

              • fisiani …
                14 June 2014 at 7:20 pm

                Never predicted it on The Standard and never claimed to have done so.

                • McFlock …
                  14 June 2014 at 7:30 pm

                  Never said you had.
                  Simply asked whether you were supporting an unsubstantiated prediction with an equally unsubstantiated claim of brilliance. It appears you were.

                  but now you’ve made a verifiable prediction as to what Labour will get in september.

                  • fisiani …
                    14 June 2014 at 8:26 pm

                    Yes I predict sub 22%

                    • BM …
                      14 June 2014 at 8:35 pm

                      25% would be my prediction, but sub 22% if the Cunllife implodes.

                    • Clemgeopin …
                      14 June 2014 at 8:39 pm

                      For National I predict SUB 44%
                      For Labour I predict 36% Plus
                      For Internet-MANA 6 % Plus.
                      For the GREENS….? 10 % plus

                      For CONS, SUB 3 %
                      For Maori, 1%

                      For ACT 0%
                      For UFUT 0%

            • Lanthanide 18.2.1.2.1.3
              14 June 2014 at 7:41 pm

              The by-election was predicated on Banks resigning over the whole situation 18 months ago. He never did, despite obviously being guilty. The police utter failure to lodge the case they clearly should have ended up delaying everything, and here we are today.

              So if you placed those bids after the police chose not to prosecute, then it was hardly a long-shot prediction.

              • fisiani …
                14 June 2014 at 9:30 pm

                Placed the prediction after he was found guilty! That’s how thick some rabid Lefties are.

                • McFlock …
                  14 June 2014 at 10:07 pm

                  Wow, so a market failed to adjust to new information in a timely manner?
                  And you think taking advantage of that counts as a “prediction”?

                  there’s a double fucking surprise. /sarc

    • srylands 18.3
      14 June 2014 at 8:37 pm

      I would be surprised. 25% support for Labour is likely rusted on for now. These are people who will vote Labour because they don’t think, are stupid, or because their parents did or all of the above.

      • fisiani 18.3.1
        14 June 2014 at 9:41 pm

        25% bedrock I agree but if 20% of them stay at home that takes it down to just 20%.

        • dimebag russell 18.3.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 9:51 pm

          that makes it about five eights of sweet f*ck all. goodbye national.

  19. bad12 19
    14 June 2014 at 3:57 pm

    More on the Buses here in Wellington, it appears that the Chairperson of the Wellington Regional Council understands the story of Cinderella at the ball in its entirety,

    Fran Wilde heading the Regional Council, which looks remarkably like an old peoples home for old politicians who have long past their use by date on the national stage but still crave, well crave something best not addressed here, now says that the Wellington City Council Mayor is opposing the scrapping of Wellington’s trolley buses based upon not having ALL the information,

    Such a statement from Wilde raises the specter of ”Granny State” and a following query of just who does have all the relevant information,

    In the world according to Fran, a new text brought about by the all seeing eye, She does and the wiring for the Wellington trolley buses will have to go because in 2017 this network covering a huge swathe of Wellington City ”Will become too dangerous to use”,

    And i have it on good authority Cinderella’s Prince will turn into a fucking Frog, worlds on this date will also collide giving George Powell’s bride the most terrible thrills,

    My view would be that such thinking as exhibited by the Wellington Regional Council will eventually make the planet too dangerous to use as well and they best be got rid of at the earliest oportunity, the next Council elections should do nicely…

    • srylands 19.1
      14 June 2014 at 8:40 pm

      Christ whatever that means. Are you saying the technical report is wrong and they are cost effective after all? Really? Or you could be saying something else entirely because as usual, you write in discursive riddles.

      • bad12 19.1.1
        15 June 2014 at 12:39 pm

        Yes SSLands, you have to have at least 3 working neurons crashing around inside the cranial cavity causing electrical discharge to be able to understand some of the stuff i publish here,

        You obviously fail at the first hurdle, and, being drunk doesn’t help matters either…

    • dimebag russell 19.2
      14 June 2014 at 9:54 pm

      too dangerous my bum. if that is the case then renew it. I dont trust fran wilde one iota. she has probably already got a finders fee from the the other alternative supplier.

  20. bad12 20
    14 June 2014 at 4:00 pm

    Lolz, is it the word ”buses” that the computer so dislikes that it captures such comments into moderation…

    Edit: obviously not…

  21. dimebag russell 21
    14 June 2014 at 4:11 pm

    the national party must have stumped up some cash to pay fizzyanis overtime on a Saturday and he spent most of it on mind bending drugs.

  22. JanM 22
    14 June 2014 at 4:16 pm

    I am absolutely horrified – having just acquired my son’s chooks I went off to RD1 to buy them some food seeing I can’t totally free-range them (they are in a large cage that can be moved around with access to greenery and soil). I had heard from a local source that at least one product contained palm kernel so when I went in I asked about that and was told they all did except one!!!
    Needless to say, that’s the one I have ( it’s from North Country Grains in Kaitaia, by the way – a GM-free company), but I would have been there for hours reading the small print had I not asked, and how many people taking innocent pleasure in keeping their own chooks have any idea that they are doing so at the cost of the orangutans – not many, I bet!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • veutoviper 22.1
      14 June 2014 at 4:48 pm

      Thanks for that information, JanM. I will possibly be acquiring a neighbour’s chooks when they move back to Auckland in a few months and I would not have known this. Will check out North Country Grains for availability in Wellington.

    • BM 22.2
      14 June 2014 at 5:48 pm

      David Cunnlife has chooks.

      His chook feed better be free of palm kernel otherwise I have no idea how he’ll be able to form a coalition with the greens!!!!!.

  23. dimebag russell 23
    14 June 2014 at 5:11 pm

    they all trying to make monkeys out of everyone. they like the thing in the ‘Fifth Element’ that wants to eat the earth. Only these humans have no idea what they are doing. Its a period of mass delusion and madness that we will be lucky to escape from.

  24. phillip ure 24
    14 June 2014 at 6:16 pm

    a great movie on tv4 @ 6.30..

    ..chicken run..

    ..it’s made by the wallace and grommit crew…

  25. Tracey 25
    14 June 2014 at 7:01 pm

    according to the herald

    ” The current theory circulating around Parliament – albeit one apparently denied by McCully himself – is that the foreign minister will announce he is withdrawing from the race for East Coast Bays, and do so so close to the election that National will not have time to pick another candidate”

    • Lanthanide 25.1
      14 June 2014 at 7:44 pm

      Which is funny, because that would be so utterly transparent to the voting public, especially since the rumour is public now, so far in advance.

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 8:04 pm

        Yeah it risks a loss of party vote support nationwide and Opposition parties would have a field day. It would likely set up a Labour win in the electorate.

        • Lanthanide 25.1.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 10:09 pm

          I wouldn’t go as far as to suggest Labour would win the electorate. Remember that National voters are being told “we need support parties or we won’t be in government”. Suggesting National voters in the electorate would knowingly vote in a Labour candidate with the high chance of them blocking a National government, doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    • srylands 25.2
      14 June 2014 at 8:41 pm

      Yeah well if you believe that you will have some of the ipredict action won’t you? No? I thought not. Because it won’t happen.

      • dimebag russell 25.2.1
        14 June 2014 at 8:54 pm

        i-predict that Labour will open a big can of whipass on National and sh*t in carrying a pig!

      • Daveosaurus 25.2.2
        14 June 2014 at 11:29 pm

        Because nothing else says ‘verifiability’ the same way as does an internet gambling site…

  26. Draco T Bastard 26
    14 June 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Death From Above: How American Drone Strikes Are Devastating Yemen

    Symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, trauma and anxiety are becoming rampant in the different corners of the country where drones are active. “Drones hover over an area for hours, sometimes days and weeks,” said Rooj Alwazir

    And this is the sound of the drones

    The US, such a shining example of humanity – NOT.

    • Colonial Viper 26.1
      14 June 2014 at 8:06 pm

      The US have fucked up the Syria and Iraq situation so much that ISIS/ISIL are only tens of kilometres away from marching on Baghdad.

      There was a report that 800 ISIS militants routed 30,000 Iraqi army personnel out of Mosul.

      • phillip ure 26.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 8:58 pm

        this is going to end up the same clusterfuck as the fall of saigon…

        ..helicopters pulling americans off the roof of the embassy..

        ..the american empire..routed yet again..

        • Clemgeopin 26.1.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 9:08 pm

          I heard on the radio this afternoon that America is making preparations to evacuate their embassy personnel from Baghdad. Not looking good for Baghdad and Iraq.

          • Colonial Viper 26.1.1.1.1
            14 June 2014 at 11:36 pm

            And this is funny but not funny haha…the Iranians are sending in elite units to help the Shia govt in Baghdad out against the Sunni extremist forces – just as the US is considering launching an air war against those same Sunni forces – i.e. Iran and the USA will be fighting on the same side to try and salvage the Shia govt

            BTW the only reason ISIS/ISIL have got so far is that the Shia govt has been playing a corrupt game of divide and rule and the Sunnis around Saddam’s home town have fucking had enough of it and so are helping the militants on the ground.

            • phillip ure 26.1.1.1.1.1
              15 June 2014 at 7:39 am

              it gets even more complicated..

              ..isis have been/are being funded by americas’ ‘good-friend’..saudi arabia..

              ..it’s all getting kinda surreal..

              • Colonial Viper …
                15 June 2014 at 1:07 pm

                Yes the very armaments that the US Qatar and Saudis let flow into Syria to try and get rid of Assad are now being used in Iraq against the Baghdad govt.

                (Bear in mind that the [mostly Sunni] Saudis are totally fine with this as Iraq has become way too aligned with their regional [Shia] enemy Iran over the last few years).

  27. karol 27
    14 June 2014 at 8:40 pm

    I just finished watching Al Jazzera documentary that I recorded this morning: “Goldman Sachs: The Bank that Rules the World”. On again at about midnight tonight on Freeview.

    Promo for it. The full doco doesn’t seem to be online yet.

    Sobering. How Goldman Sachs has no ethics, and leads the banking world in supporting an oligarchy.

    • Mike the Savage One 27.1
      14 June 2014 at 11:45 pm

      Are you talking about the Federal Reserve and US Dollar currency program they recently showed, or is this another one?

      I saw the one on the FS and the GFC and bailout recently, and it just repeated what we knew already, apart from little bits of new info.

      Why is it, that this is repeated again and again, and that informed people at least, know all this now, and why is it, that most in public were scared to shit a few years ago, and now, all is back to “normal”? NOTHING is back to normal, the debt is larger than ever, is less likely to ever being paid off, and we have too many vested interest parties now report to us daily economic stabilisation, even “success” with growth figures and so???

      So the stock exchange is a “surface event”, really, as that is NOT connected anymore, nor was it years ago, before and during the GFC, to the REAL economy. The REAL economy is on slippery slopes, China is easing, likely to face the limitations after years of growth, Japan is not moving, Europe is snail growing, and the US is in territory not seen before, with sluggish “growth” and with a totally destabilised Middle East close to contraction again.

      WTF are people and media on about, with a “rock star (shite) economy” built on molten ice?

      WTF is this dumb populace here on about, to trust the crap we get reported, and WTF is a Labour opposition about, to not call it what it is, a kettle full of rotten, stinking manure, nothing else?

      Maybe they all bought into this corrupt, about to collapse system, and now where we have Islamic Radicals take over the Middle East, make no doubt about it, that is how Muhammad the Prophet started, your oil wells will soon be outside reach, and we will all have to pay extra premiums to fill the tank.

      Hah, get the horses and donkeys on the road, bet a bicycle, the quarter acre and two to three car household in Kiwiland lifestyle is GONNER, FOR GOOD!

  28. Once was Tim 28
    14 June 2014 at 11:29 pm

    Anybody else catch Paxman’s Newsnight – the Hilary Clinton interview?
    Christ!
    Paraphrasing ….. the US is not about imperialism, rather “promoting values”.

    Strewth!

    • geoff 28.1
      14 June 2014 at 11:47 pm

      Thanks for the info.
      What’s with the Something about Mary hairdo?
      Could make a joke about Bill here and cigars here…

      here’s the link for anyone else:

  29. Mike the Savage One 29
    14 June 2014 at 11:32 pm

    Sorry, I have not been here a while.

    What is going on, here, where there is usually a hive of activity?

    Where is the “light bearer” of “the left”, our trusted opposition leader David, David Cunliffe? Where are the ground breaking policies to decide this election, where are the lined up champions of the Labour opposition to serve as the gladiators to take Key and his line-up out, if I may ask?

    There is such a damned silence around, a lack of news, a dearth of information, have they already given up the fight?

    Or is this the quiet before the storm, where Parliament will start again on Tuesday? I am desperate to learn and hear, what the damned hell is going on.

    I have never seen TS so silent and void of activity over a weekend for a long time, and I wonder, have all the staunch vocal defenders of the left and liberal cause resigned, started their own business, or focus on their paid jobs, as they may realise, Teflon Key is not to be beaten?

    Gosh, I thought that Standardistas were fighters, were is the fighting spirit, does it need to be reignited, and how?

    • geoff 29.1
      14 June 2014 at 11:37 pm

      Said the 204th comment on Open Mike.

      • Colonial Viper 29.1.1
        14 June 2014 at 11:39 pm

        And the All Blacks were playing tonight, being fair 😈

        • Mike the Savage One 29.1.1.1
          14 June 2014 at 11:49 pm

          They play every two or so weeks, that is no excuse, dear comrade! Fighters fight on a number of fronts, while in the stadium, watch the outside and prepare the missiles for targeted firing. It is election year after all, I trust you wore your red scarf.

  30. Philj 30
    15 June 2014 at 6:38 pm

    xox
    Finally TVNZ have provided quality broadcasting in their coverage of the Word Cup,so far…

  31. Anne 31
    15 June 2014 at 6:45 pm

    Internet Party petition to get rid of coat-tailing and reduce the threshold:

    https://internet.org.nz/petition

    Sign now. Only running for a week.

    Every public protest, whatever form it takes, will help.

    • Colonial Viper 31.1
      15 June 2014 at 7:10 pm

      Uh, don’t you think the IP running a no-coat tailing policy but not specifying the level they want the threshold dropped to, is seriously counter-productive to their own best interests?

      • Draco T Bastard 31.1.1
        15 June 2014 at 7:14 pm

        Actually, they say that they want a discussion and point out that the commission recommended dropping from 5 to 4 and then to 3 and that Rob Salmond says 2% wouldn’t cause problems.

    • Mike the Savage One 31.2
      16 June 2014 at 7:41 am

      Seems like a bloody smart tactic, to do this, and gather names, phone and email details, to then use to promote Internet Party. Surely this is not quite straight dealing, but then again, what have we to lose?

      • Anne 31.2.1
        16 June 2014 at 4:05 pm

        Sorry to disappoint MtSO, but there is an ‘OUT’ feature if you don’t want the information provided to be used in any way to promote the I.P., and to decline any updates or news by way of email. I used it.

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