Open mike 15/06/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 15th, 2021 - 68 comments
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68 comments on “Open mike 15/06/2021 ”

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  1. Incognito 1
    15 June 2021 at 8:11 am

    A great article that cuts right through the bikelash crap.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018799050/too-much-heat-makes-transport-fraught

    “It’s tribal. People identify as a driver or a cyclist – and there aren’t that many cyclists in New Zealand. People often think of cyclists as enthusiasts doing it for sport and recreation,“ he said.

    “And with every piece of climate reporting, some people feel like they’re being asked to change their ways – and people like driving because it’s convenient. But any transport network in a city needs to work with a number of options,” MacManus said.

    While transport conflicts make headlines, the changing patterns of how we use transport do not.

    That’s the big goal and an easy lever to pull for climate change. That’s the low-hanging fruit. If you can convert more of those small trips to cycling or e-bikes that’s a huge amount of transport emissions in this country,“ he said.

    Joel MacManus said it is not well understood that transport is also a gender issue. While critics and media stereotype cyclists as male and older, there’s a reason.

    “You can look at the split of people cycling and it tells you a lot about how safe it is. You have a certain small group of people who will bike regardless – and it is heavily male. In cities that have safe paths you see it’s much closer to a 50-50 split.”

    He cited a 2014 survey in Wellington showing a group of highly active cyclists prepared to ride no matter what – and it was overwhelmingly male.

    “The people who said they would cycle if it was safer are exactly the people who aren’t cycling now,“ MacManus said.

    More refreshing insights and data in the article. Resistance is futile and they know it.

    • RedBaronCV 1.1
      15 June 2021 at 5:29 pm

      Aha per yesterday – looks like the current cycling bunch are in the demographic I observed. Plus I love the generalised pious hope that more pathways means the demographic changes. Frankly I can't see most of the women I know cycling to work, having a shower, drying their hair, putting on makeup and then selecting from the largish amount of their wardrobe that they would need to keep there if their work even has the facilities to do so.

  2. Pete 2
    15 June 2021 at 8:16 am

    Behind the Herald paywall today David Fisher lays it out about David Seymour and his recent claims a school in Whangarei made a child speak of their "white privilege".

    It shows Seymour's blustering was a typical, lowlife political scumbag exercise on his part.

    I believe as a young child Seymour attended Hora Hora school so it was interesting to see the principal of the school commenting on Seymour's efforts.

    "I think he's finding what he thinks is a niche and he's targeting it to get votes. I'm absolutely sad and appalled that a political leader would use children in his political argument."

    Newman said he had noted the timing of Seymour's "white privilege" story and National Party leader Judith Collins' leadership rating collapsing in the Newshub Reid Research poll in May. It was a fall some linked to her claims the government was introducing "racist separatism" to deal with social issues affecting Maori.

    In the wake of the poll – released on May 16 – Collins spoke less on the issue as Seymour began speaking louder after raising the claim of the child forced to "acknowledge white privilege" at school."

    • Leighton 2.1
      15 June 2021 at 1:19 pm

      I saw that. Very interesting. I was particularly fascinated by this Seymour quote.

      Seymour said he did not accept "white privilege" existed, although "it would be true as a statistical artefact" that people with white skin enjoyed better outcomes than people of colour. He said people who were taller also enjoyed advantages.

      I'm not particularly sure what this means. If he accepts that statistically white people get the best results but he doesn't accept there's any systemic privilege driving that outcome, then doesn't this mean that he thinks white (and/or tall) people are innately superior (hence they achieve better results on pure merit)? What other interpretation is there?

      • I Feel Love 2.1.1
        15 June 2021 at 2:09 pm

        Pretty much Leighton, it follows the "I'm rich because I'm hardworking, you're poor because you're lazy" rw trope.

  3. Sabine 3
    15 June 2021 at 8:35 am

    Police have flagged crime in and around emergency housing as a growing concern but neither they nor the Government will reveal the full extent of the problem.

    When asked in April what they were seeing on the ground, and what was being done if people felt unsafe in and around emergency housing, police declined an interview saying they did not collect that specific data.

    But they did acknowledge public concern about the "perceived increase" in crime.

    National Party MP Simeon Brown has asked Police Minister Poto Williams for the statistics on call outs and bail checks tagged to the addresses of 10 high-earning emergency housing motels.

    Williams did not consider it "in the public interest to answer questions regarding specific properties with the level of detail … requested".

    The Salvation Army has added its voice to calls for urgent government action.

    Captain Nicki Dutton, based in Porirua, described the situation as “extremely problematic”.

    “We have so many issues where people aren’t safe, we’ve heard so many stories about people who are living in situations which are not acceptable,” she said.

    “They’re not safe, they’re not well cared for, they don’t have everything that they need.

    well i guess she needs some more press secretaries to word her denial to answer legitimate questions a bit less haughty, lest she come across as someone who may have an interest in not telling the public what is happening in their own country, to their own people, in their own town. But then no Labour minister is living in Rotorua, in fact the last Labour Wananbe for Rotorua left town right after she lost the election cause not even Dear Leader next to her on the awning could make her palatable or believable.

    But never mind, the people that live right around these government funded motels (some tourism is obviously good for the country – homeless tourism YEI!!) know exactly what goes on, and as a poster has said some time ago, in twenty years time we will discuss the abuse that went on in these places and the Government and the Police who stood by and rather do something refused to answer questions on the base that 'The public is not included in the need to know group, neither are politicians from the other side, nor are journalists.

    For those that again want to see nothing there about a publicly paid person whose job it is to represent the people (unless she is list and got in not for winning but for being present at time) be reminded that chances are Labour again will be in opposition and then too someone can just deny them answers to legit questions on the ground that the 'public (and that is you too dear Minister or Underling) is not in the group that needs to know.
    As for those that have these ‘poor houses’ where they live, sorry guys, but you are shit outta luck. Government ain’t here to help you, or the poor and downtrotten it warehouses out of sight out of mind in some motels that otherwise would have gone bust a year ago.

    Labour, a bit more offensive every day.

    [Where is your link? – Incognito]

    • Cricklewood 3.1
      15 June 2021 at 9:04 am

      Don't worry Sabine some kindness and middle class cycle lanes will fix it…

    • Incognito 3.2
      15 June 2021 at 9:12 am

      See my Moderation note @ 8:35 am.

    • Pete 3.3
      15 June 2021 at 9:21 am

      What is offensive every day is the terminally partisan or stupid who don't acknowledge where the problem came from and seek to blame Ardern's government for it. The bitterness of the election loss is deep as every "Dear Leader" epithet shows.

      We have an 'underclass', it's the logical result of the way we've built our world. When we find the underclass revolting passing the blame to someone else is good. That long line of National MPs in Rotorua too eh? Smarm about a Labour candidate being beaten doesn't cut it. I guess if that's all you've got …

      Poto Williams doesn't need more press secretaries to word denials or anything in less haughty terms, she needs to say, "Fuck off, stop crying and whingeing about the problems you happily created."

      • ghostwhowalksnz 3.3.1
        15 June 2021 at 11:11 am

        Yes, a person so ignoranter and clueless , we are told this

        " (unless she is list and got in not for winning but for being present at time)"

        Poto Williams has always represented the seat of Christchurch East since a 2013 by-election.

        Its becomes clearer by the day its sounding like an ACT party glove puppet with a 'fixated person complex' about any and all Labour Mps

    • Patricia Bremner 3.5
      15 June 2021 at 10:49 am

      Sabine, would you rather we had evictions as in Britain? Or tent cities as in parts of the USA? Or these people die outside of hypothermia as people did in Germany?

      Yes, she is a dear leader, who prefers to house the homeless and work towards finding suitable accommodation for them as soon as is possible. Why you are so offended?

      No one is saying it is a complete answer. Not all of these people have social skills, and many have problems of addictions associations and health issues.

      The Government has poured money into helping with the first issue, shelter, and provides money for food and clothing. Many have moved from this Emergency Housing to permanent Social Housing, complete with Social Services, but as in early days of slum clearing in Britain where the rehoused kept their coal in the bath, and continued to wash at the sink, it will take time and mahi to repair the harm of past neglect.

      Once again you pour out endless bile, and work assiduously to "other". What is your point?

      There is a Pandemic and more are dying now than did in the first infections, so do you expect the "Dear Leader" to wave a magic wand or to cave in and let anyone and especially tourists in? Covid be damned?

      That would tie up even more money and leave even less for the folk you attest need more. You don't seriously suggest a right wing government would do better? They did a great deal worse after the 2008 crash, and increased the inequality sharply.

      • woodart 3.5.1
        15 June 2021 at 11:59 am

        sabine NEVER has any answers, just relentless negativety. constructive criticisim is good, moaning for the sake of it isnt.

  4. Stuart Munro 4
    15 June 2021 at 9:14 am

    It's good that the government is apologizing for the dawn raids – but the apology I want is for Rogergnomics. It ruined the country, and I'm still waiting for that rising tide they promised was going to lift my boat along with all the others.

    The apology preparation committee should be preparing one for the housing crisis that is in the process of unhoming and impoverishing a generation of New Zealanders too. Platitudes after the fact make all the difference.

  5. ghostwhowalksnz 5
    15 June 2021 at 11:21 am

    Hilarious cartoon in Stuff this morning , but you have to wonder if it had been 'held back' from an earlier more opportune publication date ?

    [image resized]

  6. GreenBus 6
    15 June 2021 at 11:46 am

    Toyota Hilux's are overrated and if electric or hybrids aren't available for 2 years one would suspect another manufacture would be only too pleased to fill the order. That's not a smart way to promote lux's. I'm sure China will oblige. Farmers say there utes are not status symbols but working vehicles. EV's are coming to farming it's just who will be leading the charge ?

    • Matiri 6.1
      15 June 2021 at 11:58 am

      Saw an enormous big black new Ford Ranger Raptor at our local vegetable market yesterday, dwarfed everything else and got quite a few disapproving looks. Not a farmers working vehicle, too shiny and clean.

    • Adrian 6.2
      15 June 2021 at 12:02 pm

      China would oblige with vehicles that can't even reach 2 stars on a safety rating. They are built down to a price and are basicly shit. BTW nobody has called out the lazy media and ACT running dogs for the bullshit on "penalising farmers and tradies" with the fee, completely overlooking the fact that work vehicles get the GST back and extensive depreciation and tax refunds on everything from repairs, fuel and other running costs not available to private users.

    • woodart 6.3
      15 June 2021 at 12:04 pm

      a large percentage of those "working vehicles" will be registered as tractors, and only do 100k or less a day. ideal electric conditions. as you say greenbus, chinese manufacturers will quickly fill the void if others dont .

      • Adrian 6.3.1
        15 June 2021 at 1:39 pm

        Pretty hard to get away with a Hilux as a tractor without getting into deep shit. Have you ever been audited by IRD? They are pretty thorough and you can expect that to happen every 7 years or so, though we have only been checked once in 27. Not much advantage as both are on diesel and that doesn't carry any excise. There are a lot of urban myths about farming dodges and there are a few but nowhere as many as townies would like to think.

        • woodart 6.3.1.1
          15 June 2021 at 3:17 pm

          not hard to register hilux as tractor. all you need is a rural delivery address, or a friend with one that will let you use it. my jeep cherokee is registered as a tractor, saves me $$ on wof and rego. if it was diesel it would have saved me big $$$. "IRD are pretty thorough,though we have only been checked once in 27 yrs"!!!that answer tells us all how thorough IRD is, and as for urban myths, I live in the country but earn $$$ in town, have done so for longer that you havent been audited by IRD. possibly know some farming dodges you dont.

          • ghostwhowalksnz 6.3.1.1.1
            15 June 2021 at 5:00 pm

            Arent ALL those ute type vehicles allowed to be classed as 'work vehicles' without question now , thats why the city types love them as no need to worry about fringe benefit tax or private use mileage.

            'However, double cab utes are largely exempt from the tax as most fit into an exemption for vehicles that aren’t primarily used for carrying people – an exemption essentially designed so that tradies weren’t pinged by complex FBT charges. Of course, it’s encouraged a whole lot of companies to buy utes to avoid paying the charge.'

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300237529/government-considered-36-million-tax-break-for-company-cars

    • Jester 6.4
      15 June 2021 at 5:40 pm

      I cant understand why so many people buy these utes. Yes they are useful for farmers and some trades people like builders etc. and handy if you are picking up a washing machine, but otherwise they are big and clumsy in car parks and difficult to park.

      I much prefer driving a hatch back or sedan for the amount of time you need a large tray on the back.

  7. Adrian 7
    15 June 2021 at 11:47 am

    You got an apology from Jim Bolger and countless apologies from a lot on the left over the years. Rogernomics was not designed to be what it turned out to be, remember this is the same Roger Douglas that bought in a super scheme that all those now wealthier countries adopted from Singapore to Finland, a super scheme that today would have been worth 500 billion according to an estimate this week and my quess is that the homeless levels would not be an issue now and like Finland we would already have 60% EV ownership.it was fucking Muldoon that canceled that, dig him up and get an apology out of him. It was an ethos that was hijacked by arseholes for their own enrichment.

    Douglas was once asked why GST was on food, his reply was that he had been to dinner in Remuera where the hosts had spent Over 500 dollars on the food and he had no intention of letting the rich eat for free and that is why he raised benefits for the less well of to cover the cost of GST on their food and other essentials. A lot of that has been lost in the angry history.

    • In Vino 7.1
      15 June 2021 at 12:13 pm

      Adrian, it was not only Muldoon. I remember that election clearly: the Superannuation issue was one of the major ones, and both sides explained their virtues and criticised the faults of the other's scheme.

      The great disaster to my mind was the failure of the NZ public to vote sensibly. The vast majority failed to think seriously, and voted emotionally on which leader looked and sounded better on TV. This was not an election of deceptive manifesto like the 1980's Labour win leading to Rogernomics.

      It was the vast majority of NZers who deserve the opprobrium of having destroyed the better Superannuation scheme, by foolishly voting for Muldoon and his attractive-sounding short-term gain. The vast majority of NZers stupidly did this to themselves, not just Muldoon alone.

      • GreenBus 7.1.1
        15 June 2021 at 1:05 pm

        Very true In Vino and the sleepy hobbits are still at it. The trouble with voting is a great many have zero interest in politics, know very little policy and just vote for the nice talking head seen every now and then on tele. We end up with the shambles currently on show with underwhelming politicians delivering scams to suit themselves because they know exactly what the sleepy hobbits do. Sigh.

      • greywarshark 7.1.2
        15 June 2021 at 1:14 pm

        I think we had it too easy, post WW2, in the main. I remember an attitude of expectation of politicians to get on and do stuff, it's their job isn't it. The citizen was king or queen of the walk and had expectations of staying there without bothering too much about detail of law, and its effects – 'that's what we have politicians for'.

        We abdicated opportunity for participatory government; though tried to alter things a bit with MMP, but still rather loose and muddled. So not ready for the speed that things could change or knowledgable about what we had in place, and no understanding of the international financial forces behind what the neolib, freemarket revolution would bring.

        And no idea of the apparent common class change of physical workers metamorphising and shedding skin when they moved to the management class, abandoning interest or respect for the working class, especially at the unskilled/semi-skilled level. It was 'The End of the Golden Weather' which is becoming literal.

      • Adrian 7.1.3
        15 June 2021 at 1:27 pm

        Certainly Grey, there was whiff of noblesse oblige and patricianism about leaders then but Labour paid for the Oil Crisis, fuel prices and carless days, none of which were their fault but the Nats dirty tricks team made sure they got blamed for it not to mention the Dancing Cossacks and Reds Under the Beds which were how the Nats portrayed the super scheme as COMMUNISIM at full gallop. Muldoon is still the chief arsehole in this country. Of course the uncritical middle ground were going to be swayed.

        • greywarshark 7.1.3.1
          15 June 2021 at 1:43 pm

          The comment I was thinking about talked about the voters more than the politicians. I think we have not been advised and educated well so as to make us good democrats. Work is involved in maintaining anything and we have not learned the skills – developed the cargo cult mentality that was often laughed at as supposedly a weakness in the Pacific after the USA incursions during WW2 (of course pre-nuclear testing). So the more Labour did, the more we went to sleep on the job. Going all right, it ain't broke so no need to find out how to fix it if necessary. We wouldn't have fallen for the dancing Cossacks, the Communism scarre if we had studied political systems at school, and the government would not have got away with driving Bill Sutch to his death I think. The informed mind with wide horizons and knowledge, over the hicks from the sticks approach was followed there, and still continues amongst the many slow learners.

      • Brigid 7.1.4
        15 June 2021 at 7:55 pm

        It wasn't a majority, vast or otherwise. National's vote was 47.6% with Labour's 8% less.

    • mac1 7.2
      15 June 2021 at 12:57 pm

      Under the 72-5 Labour government, with Douglas as the responsible minister, the family benefit was able to be capitalised allowing a young solo mum I knew with two children to buy her own home, helped I must add by a personal loan from a Labour MP to give her this start. Personal and public compassion from both.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 7.2.1
        15 June 2021 at 4:55 pm

        Paula Bennett used a very similar arrangement to get a little place in Taupo when she was a solo mum.

        Keys mother was able to get a 'permanent' state house in Christchurch as a widow.

        Then they made it …. and pulled up the ladders behind them

    • Andre 8.1
      15 June 2021 at 5:55 pm

      It's a great idea let down by a shitty user interface.

      Instead of just beeping when the zombie gets close to an obstacle, that third eye needs to stream an image of the zombie's path ahead to a small window on the phone screen.

  9. mac1 9
    15 June 2021 at 11:55 am

    Being the anniversary of the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215 today, I think it would be appropriate for us to list the good things that in particular our NZ government has done for its people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

    It's very good that we apologise for the wrongs that were wrought and I feel a sense of shame that Labour was involved in those dawn raids.

    To allow a sense of balance and even gratitude, I begin with a list off the top of my head that I feel should be mentioned and be proud of.

    The 8 hour day; the breaking up of the big estates; universal suffrage; vote for women; the old age pension; opposition in the League of Nations to Italy's invasion of Ethiopia; the appointment of MLC Mark Briggs to the Legislative Council; social security; not joining the coalition of the willing; withdrawal of troops from Vietnam; Nuclear Free NZ; gay marriage; removal of compulsory military training; stopping racist rugby tours.

    A wide and idiosyncratic starting list to which may I encourage others to add…………

    • Adrian 9.1
      15 June 2021 at 12:10 pm

      Wasn't Labour in power during the big NZ push for the creation of the UN. Number 2, making sure we got the BEST vaccine with 88% cover for the B117 delta virus , way ahead of any other. No3, SmokefreeNZ, how many will that save from a horrible gasping desperate death.

      • mac1 9.1.1
        15 June 2021 at 12:51 pm

        I'm glad it's the best vaccine. I had mine yesterday.

      • Patricia Bremner 9.1.2
        15 June 2021 at 3:05 pm

        Yes Adrian, as a past smoker Helen Clarke's smoke free day at work made me aware of non-smokers patience towards us. It took 3 years and patches before I was smoke free. So lucky to have that prod

  11. greywarshark 11
    15 June 2021 at 12:54 pm

    I like Colin Cotterill's novels about Laos and fictional old guys and women there with much political, practical and administrative wisdom. One of his latest in the series about Dr Siri Paiboun (Retired National – and only – Coroner) and his wife Daeng and their clique. This book is called, enigmatically, 'The Second Biggest Nothing'.

    Here one has been asked to read a statement from the government commemorating their fifth year but he disagrees with it completely. What to do, if he refuses they will just get someone else. He is thinking of redaction but the others point out that the simultaneous interpreters will be reading the original script. "The old king tried to change his abdication speech, and the radio station brought in an actor to read the Party version."

    The others ask what is so special about five years anyway. He says "It's quite simple. The government is celebrating five years because, despite all its mismanagement and false hopes and poor judgment, it's still here. They never expected to make it this far."

    "Who's going to kick them out?" is the question. His answer, "Exactly. That's the glory of totalitarianism. You can screw up for five years and admit you have no idea what you're doing and you wake up the next morning and you're still in power. You can experiment all over again."

    Oh dear. Hollow laughter from me. It sounds vaguely familiar.

    And the bit where on a quiet night when they have imbibed and discussed and then drunk some more they raise a small ruckus before curfew so 'their drunken voices were carried across the river to Thailand to show the enemy that socialist Laos could still have a good time once in a while….right now was as good a time as any to stand on the riverbank and yell abuse. It was nothing personal, just a friendly diatribe against a nation with an ongoing animosity toward their inferior northern neighbours. It was therapy'.

    We might end up doing similar looking towards Australia.

  12. greywarshark 12
    15 June 2021 at 2:08 pm

    What a pathetic little thinker to have as a Mayor. He and other deadheads don't want to keep putting $15,000 towards a tourist attraction badly needed in regional North Island at Benneydale. The Mayor shows himself up as a dried-up little bean counter with no understanding of promotional activity to support micro businesses, self-employment and jobs and regular income to the town.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/444756/investing-in-the-timber-trail-saving-a-village-for-15-000

    "The accountant in me urges council to end this. This needs to end at some time, the only specific grant we give," he said.

    It seems that we have too frequently two opposites from Councils in NZ – either spending too much on big-ticket items, or spending too little on small, effective, wanted and economically affordable items. Talk about cutting off an area's nose to spite its face. The Council funded it at a higher rate initially, then prudently cut that back. But to withdraw completely shows an accountant's inability to know when or how to be entrepreneurial in building community business and interaction and amenities, and also the effect in the community of the multiplier.*

    *In terms of gross domestic product, the multiplier effect causes gains in total output to be greater than the change in spending that caused it. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/multiplier.asp

    • woodart 12.1
      15 June 2021 at 3:31 pm

      I know its not good to generalise, but isnt a mayor supposed to be aspirational ? does aspirational and accountant in the same sentence possibly work? bean counters should stick to counting beans….

      • greywarshark 12.1.1
        15 June 2021 at 3:57 pm

        I am glad you see what I see. I have thought up a name for people who are supposed to be aspirational but aren't – asprinational! What do you think?

        • ghostwhowalksnz 12.1.1.1
          15 June 2021 at 5:59 pm

          'Voted out' is the phrase you are looking for

          • woodart 12.1.1.1.1
            15 June 2021 at 6:54 pm

            unfortunatley too many shortsighted crappy local politicians keep on getting voted in, and back in, by doing nothing but keeping rates down. it is coming to a head in many councils with yrs of deferred maintanance on sewer and water systems, and the bills to those same ratepayers are going to be massive. many of these councils are rural councils with very little aspirational leadership.

            • ghostwhowalksnz 12.1.1.1.1.1
              16 June 2021 at 12:06 pm

              Dont get me going on 'deferred maintenance' on sewer and water system. Its a meaningless 'objective' as depreciation on council assets is almost never spent on renewal.

              The 'deferred' part is just the difference on a broad brush accounting measure that 'depreciation' is a fixed rate over the life of the asset- which is just plucked out of thin air.

              Auckland has lots of brick sewers which are fine even after 150 years…its fascinating how some smaller and bricking around them as they go.

              Wellington had some major effects from recent strong earthquakes in upper south island which has affected their waterfront area sewers, doesnt mean its dire for rest of the central city area where the sewers are in good ground

  13. moredemocracyoplease 13
    15 June 2021 at 6:26 pm

    For anyone interested in developing better ways of doing politics in Aotearoa New Zealand there is a start up calling itself a political co-operative looking for folk to work on the idea of a new online platform. Take a look at https://oneaction.nz/intro/.

    • weka 13.1
      15 June 2021 at 6:33 pm

      for some reason that link doesn't work.

      This one does https://oneaction.nz/Intro/

    • weka 13.2
      15 June 2021 at 6:35 pm

      I like this,

      "OneAction won’t register as an official NZ political party until we have 200,000 members – enough to take seats at our first election."

      But other than that, I don't really get what you are doing. If the point is to give representation in parliament to members, how will you manage libertarian right members and green left ones?

      • greywarshark 13.2.1
        15 June 2021 at 9:33 pm

        It possibly will attract a lot of young adults who want to try new parties thinking the old ones are a bit soiled. They tend to be full of ideas and pushing for changes that are kind to people.

        I think the latest in Nelson as a result of a fuss by a new young councillor, is silly. It cuts out fines for overdue library books. They were rather dear if you had a number out (and the library lets out a whopping 35 items). That could have come down from 50c to 30c a day for the first three, and then up to a limit of $1 for all the rest. Now there is no prod to return them promptly, and of course it means that others waiting to read the book will just have to wait till the tardy borrower gets round to returning them or asking someone else to do so. And it was a bit of extra cash that was available for library use. What I would like is not having to pay $2 to get a book held at one of the suburban libraries. They should have a free interactive system seeing its all one rating area.

        As a slack borrower myself at various times, I found late fee useful (they send an email well in advance) and I respected that I had an expensive book I should take back. Don't rush to change good rules I say, they should be tempered by good old common sense, it does come in right and handy at times.

        • weka 13.2.1.1
          15 June 2021 at 9:41 pm

          my understanding is it's a change in library culture, away from neoliberalism (revenue generation by councils), to wanting to support people to actually take out books. Lots of people who end up with fines stop using the library.

          Agree about reserve fees.

          • greywarshark 13.2.1.1.1
            15 June 2021 at 9:46 pm

            There can be a fine amnesty for such people. But it is a public amenity and if they have a problem getting back to the library, they could have an envelope prepaid, to use. That would be paid for by the other late-fee people who can access the library. There are too many lovey-dovey ideas floating around that indicate that we are a caring community. All surface appearance stuff. Let's care where it really is needed, not this middle class sweetness; have equity of sweetness and spread it round.

            • weka 13.2.1.1.1.1
              15 June 2021 at 10:47 pm

              How does this the library determine the middle class from the other classes?

      • moredemocracyoplease 13.2.2
        15 June 2021 at 10:11 pm

        Actually OneAction is at an early stage of developing, and more voices are needed to firm up the ideas and develop the online co-operative ideas.

      • moredemocracyoplease 13.2.3
        16 June 2021 at 3:31 pm

        It's an experiment not a ready baked solution. The real challenge is to develop a platform that will permit deliberative participation, listening as well as talking, using the techniques developed for deliberative mini-publics, some of which have had to go online during Covid, so there are examples to look at and adapt.