Open Mike 15/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 15th, 2017 - 163 comments
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163 comments on “Open Mike 15/09/2017”

  1. greg 1

    i think to apply for a kiwi build home you must be on the electoral roll and have voted in the 2017 election because why should none voters get on the ballet ahead of those who got off there backsides and voted

  2. Sanctuary 2

    How to get young people to enroll? Along with the carrots, a little bit of stick. Prosecute a dozen or so and fine them for not enrolling (it is a legal requirement), pour encourager les autres.

    • Ed 2.1

      Change the law once in power.

    • The decrypter 2.2

      Don’t prosecute those intending to vote lab/gr.

    • Graeme 2.3

      Don’t panic too much. The problem goes both ways.

      In my extended family is a person in their late 50s who’s not on the roll. Never has been. Doesn’t stop them posting, and commenting on, enthusiastically, most of National’s more extreme bullshit about Labour on their Facebook page. Irony is that their spouse, also rabid Nat, is an electoral officer.

      I just smile….

      • miravox 2.3.1

        Agree. We also know rabid politically engaged people who have never voted (democracy is for idiots), but who buy their economic framework by making massive donations to National.

  3. bwaghorn 3

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/96834696/national-to-offer-young-farmers-to-buy-landcorp-farms

    come on labour pick this up , but make the farms lease only so they provide more than one young farmer a stepping stone,
    oh and the greens appear to favour corporate farming Hmmmmm insert grumpy emogi

    • Graeme 3.1

      When I heard that thought it was a bit back to the future.

      That’s how Landcorp / Lands and Survey used to operate. Farms were developed on pioneer / marginal land and then leased and sold to young farmers. I think a lot of Western Southland was developed like this.

      Leasing only would be the way to go now. In today’s world it would just be very difficult for young farmers, without family support, to move into a Landcorp type farm at market price, due to the price pressure put on the market by overseas buyers.

      • weka 3.1.1

        Do you mean Landcorp buys marginal land and then leases it out? Or do you mean that the existing Landcorp farms get given out on permanent lease?

        Having Landcorp involved in supporting young farmers into farming would be great especially where it was sustainable or climate change prep. Lots of potential for overlap with the Greens climate and ag policies.

    • weka 3.2

      How would leasing be a stepping stone?

      “oh and the greens appear to favour corporate farming”

      What does that mean?

      • bwaghorn 3.2.1

        oops i miss read it they favour the land staying in landcorp ownership , which i’m good with but it still could be leased out with rules around looking after the land .
        they would be a stepping stone as a young farmer could leese till they own all the stock then move into ownership

    • come on labour pick this up , but make the farms lease only so they provide more than one young farmer a stepping stone

      You do understand that there’s nowhere for the young farmers to step to don’t you? All the farming land has been used up and is owned by old farmers and city ‘farmers’.

      That’s why National has decided to sell all the Landcore land – and it won’t be going to young farmers but those old and city ‘farmers’. The ones that can afford to buy it.

      • KJT 3.3.1

        It will be like fishing quota.
        In a few short years will be in the hands of corporates and the wealthy sqatters next door. “Tenure review” all over again.

        Leasehold to beginning youngsters only would genuinely help young farmers who cannot afford the next step.

      • cleangreen 3.3.2

        Draco you are so right here,

        Every time national comes out with a new policy it has two sides (truth & lies) to it dressed up as a “progressive policy” for a group of ‘intersted parties’ and this time it is young farmers eh!!!

        Not in your nellie’

        it will be featered off to their mates in large packages not for the 10 acre farming block you can bet.

        My dear departed mum was very wise when she told me “If it sounds to good to be true then it is a lie”.

        National are good at lies, and this is another one.

        • cleangreen 3.3.2.1

          Draco you are so right here, (meant 100 acre mininum farm not 10 acres, that’s only what I’ve got. ( toy farm.)

          Every time national comes out with a new policy it has two sides to it dressed up as a “progressive policy” for a group of ‘intersted parties’ and this time it is young farmers eh!!!

          Not in your nellie’

          it will be featered off to their mates in large packages not for the 100 acre farming block you can bet.

          My dear departed mum was very wise when she told me “If it sounds to good to be true then it is a lie”.

          National are good at lies, and this is another one.

      • Notreadyet 3.3.3

        That is incorrect, there is a well established system for young dairy farmers to get into a farm, the sharemilking system has been working for over 50 years.
        Starting off as contract Miller’s and finishing up owning the herd and getting 50% of the milk receipts, huilding up to a 1000 cows on a single large farm or multiple farms, selling off a large portion of their herd gives a deposite on first farm purchase.
        Other than the few that may take over the family farm (but still have to buy out their sibblings) nearly every dairy farming family has used this route to farm ownership. The system operates as strongly today as it every has. You may be aware of the term gypsie day which is used to describe the mass movement of sharemilkers moving between farms on 1st June each year as they move up to bigger farms or into their first own farm

        • Draco T Bastard 3.3.3.1

          That is incorrect, there is a well established system for young dairy farmers to get into a farm, the sharemilking system has been working for over 50 years.

          And this well established process creates land how?

          Or, to put it other words: ZOMG, I didn’t know we had God working for us.

          Everything else you say can be safety ignore until you prove we actually do have God on our payroll.

        • greywarshark 3.3.3.2

          /open-mike-15092017/#comment-1384925on Not ready yet
          Plenty of sharemilkers say they haven’t a chance of getting their own place.
          They can’t catch up with prices. A quiet word to sharemilkers today on gypsy day may not get them talking about their reality. But away from the group I think the facts would be that for each one that is managing on his own behalf, there are five who have had to borrow excessively, or step back for another couple of years and some have given up because the present day system has killed off that 50 year opportunity.

          And I haven’t forgotten the sharemilker struggling to keep up with his plan who found that the farmer he worked with just kept overstocking with his own beasts. The sharemilkers plan was to work the place up and introduce his own cows but every time there was the opportunity to do that the owner took the opportunity to boost his own herd. His wife said he got into the pattern of pushing himself and collapsed from overwork.

          I can;t give you any sources for what I have said. I try to keep up with what is happening in the rural sector. I think I would know more about it than the rural sector knows about the non-primary sector.

      • bwaghorn 3.3.4

        there are still smaller farms in reach and as with all things 1 action won’t solve everything but it will help

        • Graeme 3.3.4.1

          There’s also a lot of “amalgamations” that could end up in the hands of liquidators once their capital is exhausted. I have a feeling it’s these syndicated operations that are leading the fight against resource charging. there’s probably not that many of them, but they were pushing the boundaries of viability from the start and 30 – 50K per annum for water is the least of their problems.

          This is quite interesting to and points to the above

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2017/339524/water-tax-negligible-for-most-dairy-farms-industry-figures

          • bwaghorn 3.3.4.1.1

            hmm kind of proves my feeling that the water tax is just wedge politics , i may still vote labour but i will have to hold my nose to do i.

            imagine if landcorp had of secured the crafer farms and put young kiwis on as a 10 year leasee ,

  4. ScottGN 4

    A flat-out straight-up lie from McCully and the government. And 2 years of trying to keep it out of the news.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/339438/saudi-sheep-deal-no-mfat-legal-advice-on-lawsuit-risk

    • tc 4.1

      Not as prominent as others within national it seems. Yet another dodgy deal the sheeple need reminding about.

      • Pat 4.1.1

        it is not so much the deal (appealing as it was0…it is the barefaced lies, and cover up including support from supposedly non political public servants and public oversight that National have maintained ….a party of moral and ethical bankrupts who have to go before they corrupt our systems beyond repair.

        • tc 4.1.1.1

          sad thing is for good ole NZ is the electorate doesn’t seem to mind their lies based on the last fews GE’s.

          • Graeme 4.1.1.1.1

            I think that’s because having your leaders lie somehow legitimises your own lying. I’ve noticed a huge increase in lying behaviour among rural and construction people in the last 10 years. It’s now almost accepted. The same people are beside themselves at the prospect of a change in government.

        • Pat 4.1.1.2

          lol..crap , just realised it reads ‘appealing’…..edit to ‘appalling’

  5. reason 5

    For some reason Labour has chosen not to point out the enormous black hole in our Governments accounts and book keeping ….. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-11/corporate-tax-minimisation-costs-governments-1-trillion/7587092

    New Zealand is poorly informed about the scam being inflicted upon us ….If Labour will not speak up about the elephant in the room then the the Greens should highlight this tax injustice,….. it would probably help if they cooperate and network with their Aussie compatriots, who have done good work in this area ……. https://greens.org.au/tax-avoidance

    Nationals tax policy is apprently for the ‘creative’ …..

    John Key: …. “, if they want to be creative and work hard, to significantly reduce their tax liability but in a lawful way.” ….

    “, Mr Rozvany said just because something is legal does not mean it is ethical.
    “It’s an interesting thing, ‘within the law’,” Mr Rozvany said.
    “Many things were once legal. Rape and paedophilia were once legal.
    “If you set up a sham transaction in a tax haven with a view to shifting profits from a high tax jurisdiction to a low tax jurisdiction that should be considered unacceptable to the international community.” ……

    The amounts of money looted by ‘creative’ accountants’ are huge … sly politicians make it all loophole legal … “In the three years to 2015, Shell had racked up around $60 billion in revenue (when it owned the petrol stations and the upstream business) and appeared to pay zero tax.” …. https://www.michaelwest.com.au/shell-tax-ripped-out-as-in-house-deals-double/

    Creative accounting ??? ….. “Ebay Australia and New Zealand does it all: Tax Avoidance 101 – don’t recognise revenue with customers in Australia, and then, Tax Avoidance 102 – minimise the profits on any revenues you do happen to recognise.” …. https://www.michaelwest.com.au/ebay-scores-own-goal-on-tax/

    More Local examples of Hard and creative work as defined by John key and the Nacts …., “Five big banks face about $2.4 billion of disputed tax assessments for 22 structured finance transactions.” http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2946334/Westpac-expected-to-appeal-961m-tax-ruling ……

    Or

    The overseas company CKI, who brought Wellingtons electricity lines network/infrastructure …. and has run at a fictitious loss ( with a underinvestment in maintenance ) ever since …. “Of course, those losses are not real and CKI did not pay $785m for a duffer………Wellington Network is in fact highly profitable, with an earnings margin consistently around 30 per cent before interest and tax.”…..

    “Wellington Network is owned by an entity in the Bahamas, where, like BVI, the tax system is a warm bath for companies to float in the dark and listen to the sound of money – no company tax, no withholding tax, no capital gains tax, nothing.” http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/10400785/We-need-to-talk-about-that-red-carpet-rollout

    And then we have ‘legal shell companies and ‘Trusts’……“Working hard at” buying up our land and homes ….

    ”owner of the former Crafar and Synlait farms in Waikato and Canterbury. Milk New Zealand Holding is wholly owned not by Shanghai Pengxin, but by Milk New Zealand Investment, a company registered in the British Virgin Islands. The ownership was disclosed to the Companies Office on August 13……….Chalkie reckons owning New Zealand farms through a Caribbean tax haven may have tax advantages “-

    Fixing our broken tax system and stopping corrupt money flows will benefit all taxpayers who are not using tax havens…. http://ctj.org/pdf/offshoreshellgames2016.pdf

    Its a pretty simple message …….
    Do you use a tax haven ?, …..If the answer is no …… then you will be better off under a fair tax system …….

    Stopping the legal cheating of loop-holes would not qualify as a new tax either …. would it ???

    • Muttonbird 5.1

      If that doesn’t make you angry there is something wrong with you.

    • ropata 5.2

      +100 great comment and links.

      The big four accounting firms have been branded as aggressive, unethical, and accused of “perpetrating the greatest tax crimes in history” by a leading corporate tax authority.

      If you gut the public service and slash regulation, that’s what you get from right wing governments. Looting the common wealth, privatising profits, and evading tax. Jail the white collar crooks.

      • reason 5.2.1

        Thanks Muttonbird & ropata ….. National are audacious liars to be attacking anyone over tax …..

        The Greens should announce they will push for George Rozvany to be part of the tax review ….. They need to quickly raise awareness and illuminate the simple truth.

        Being that We do not need new or more taxes ….. just collection of what is due from the richest company s and people in the world.

        The greens are the natural party to make some noise about this injustice … the rest seem compromised …..

    • tc 5.3

      Not too hard to fix though as it’s closing loopholes, making retrospective changes which comes from 2 main drivers IMO.

      1. The right people plugging the laws i.e. hire the architects of these schemes to take them down. They’re hired guns who will happily swap sides if the price is right.

      2. Government with a will to tax the top end effectively and not be swayed by the expected PR howls of ‘the sky is falling’.

      Lets not forget the banks in particular are dwindling employers with offshore profits, ownership and technology racing toward a fully self service model.

    • Eco maori 5.4

      You hit the nail on the head reason.
      That was the main objective of money puppet john key to create heaps of tax loopholes for his M8 that is the only way to explain wh ffat has happened to our tax systems.
      One can donate any amount into a trust and avoid many taxes and there are lots more loopholes to what a sham. !!!!!!!😬

      • Eco maori 5.4.1

        It’s is ridiculous that a person under the bridge will pay more tax than a multi million dollar company and don’t mention gst because the buyer pays that tax the seller is just the collector of gst.
        It just shows how unfair OUR society is and this needs to change.

    • Do you use a tax haven ?

      And if the answer is ‘yes’ then you should now subject to the Proceeds of Crime Act and lose everything. After all, using a tax haven should be a crime.

      • reason 5.5.1

        I agree there defiantly needs to be some consequences for the creative types who work hard building the getaway ‘vehicles ‘ …. that make off with billions … and those who use them of course.

        Its all reward and no risk at the moment …

        Accountants and bankers make normal criminals or welfare fraud look like small chump change amateurs …..

        “At least $US1 trillion in tax revenue is lost worldwide, and $50 billion in Australia, as a result of aggressive tax minimisation schemes established by the four giant firms who audit the books of nearly all the world’s major companies, said George Rozvany, a 32-year veteran of the corporate tax industry.”

        “And I’m a conservative man, I think the figure is actually much higher,” he told the ABC.”

        It is far from a victim-less crime…… “The people who are most affected are the most underprivileged in our society, those without a voice. The homeless, foreign aid programs.”

  6. xanthe 6

    found this
    https://battletothebeehive.co.nz/

    a good thing?
    bad thing?

  7. Notreadyet 7

    Where was the father. The rest of us fathers support our children so not sure why he should skip his duties

    [You don’t get to interrogate people on their family situations. You want to attempt “doing a Metiria” on this poster and you’ll cop a permanent ban ] – Bill

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1

      Was he managing the Reserve Bank of America, and deregulating banking, perhaps.

      Or maybe he was the one who cancelled the training incentive allowance.

      No, I get it, he must’ve been the one who defunded mental health services.

      Or perhaps he’s the one who fostered the poisonous misogynist idea that women should be reliant on men in the first place. No, wait, that was you.

    • roy cartland 7.2

      That’s your policy? Blame someone, case closed.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2.1

        Should the National Party be allowed to breed?

        • KJT 7.2.1.1

          No.

          Their children grow up to use much more common resources than ours.

          And try and take even more off the rest of us.

          “The rich are so envious of the poor, they take what little the poor have left”.

    • Michelle 7.3

      Although your comment was removed I would like to answer to help you understand.
      The father got in trouble with the law and ended up in jail, after getting out he unfortunately got addicted to meth and is only recently clean and starting to rebuild his relationship with his son.
      A relationship I feel is important and that I try to foster despite putting up with years of abuse from him while in his drug addled state.

      • Psycho Milt 7.3.1

        Bill’s got that guy’s number. The only answer that would satisfy Notreadyet is “Yes, your implied accusation is absolutely correct, it’s my fault I’m living in poverty, I brought it on myself, I deserve it and the government bears no obligation towards me as a citizen to help me out of it.” Much better to leave people like that with an answer that satisfies you rather than them, something like “Fuck you,” perhaps.

      • Notreadyet 7.3.2

        Thankyou for filling in a gap in the story. Agree we definetly need safety nets to cover your situation. 5-10 years ago the country had to borrow billions so that the we could continue to give support to those like yourself that needed it. The squeeze you experienced came on because at the time it was all borrowed and precious/scarce $. A lot of people conveniently overlook or fail to remember the situation the whole world was in after 08 and we have generally(obviously not in your case) been better off than most

        • Brigid 7.3.2.1

          How magnanimous of you to give Michelle your approval.
          What kindly wank you are.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 7.3.2.2

          The amount by which “we” have been better off could easily have been directed to those who needed it most: the reason it wasn’t was a sadistic bad choice you made.

          Greedy right wing idiots took bribes and let greedy right wing thieves destroy the global economy.

          What’s your excuse?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 7.3.2.3

          Disgusting that your brain is stuck in the late 19th century, with your vile self-serving “deserving poor” rhetoric.

          What’s your excuse for your disgusting behaviour? Your amygdala got too large?

        • McFlock 7.3.2.4

          There’s only one gap in the story that ever needed filling – the gap between what the benefit grants and what is needed to live in dignity.

        • Draco T Bastard 7.3.2.5

          5-10 years ago the country had to borrow billions so that the we could continue to give support to those like yourself that needed it.

          No we didn’t. The government doesn’t have to borrow – ever. And, in fact, it shouldn’t.

          The squeeze you experienced came on because at the time it was all borrowed and precious/scarce $.

          And that would be a load of BS as well. I seem to recall that National gave lots of tax cuts to the rich while increasing taxes upon the poor resulting in a lower tax take.

          A lot of people conveniently overlook or fail to remember the situation the whole world was in after 08 and we have generally(obviously not in your case) been better off than most

          Actually, we’re worse off because of all the same things that crashed the global economy – we just haven’t realised it yet. That’s the problem that happens when the incumbent government props up a housing bubble pushing a massive increase in private debt as their only economic idea of prosperity.

        • KJT 7.3.2.6

          “The country had to borrow billions”. To give tax cuts to those who didn’t need them! So National could bribe their way into power.

          Fixed it for you.

        • AsleepWhileWalking 7.3.2.7

          We have to borrow billions to pay landlords. How about you spend your time fixing that rather than attempted to stuff a child back into the womb.

        • Tanzanite 7.3.2.8

          “…5-10 years ago the country had to borrow billions so that the we could continue to give support to those like yourself that needed it…..”
          Oh my gawd! you are a special kind of stupid, aren’t you?
          For your little brain, let me try to educate you….Billions were borrowed to BAIL OUT BANKS AND FINANCIAL ORGANIZATIONS, who CAUSED THE FINANCIAL CRASH.
          THEY WERE BAILED OUT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE POOR, those who could LEAST afford to cu costs…JUST SO THE FILTHY, GREEDY *U*TS COULD KEEP THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS FAT!

      • KJT 7.3.3

        Thank you for telling us your story Michelle.

        People like you are an inspiration, and your child can grow up, justly proud, of their mother.

      • Patricia Bremner 7.3.4

        Kia kaha Michelle, we did not have these problems in earlier times. Good wishes to you all. Remember to get yourself a little treat now and then xx

  8. Muttonbird 8

    Perhaps this was run out of Chris Bishop’s office?

    I note he hasn’t condemned the tweets nor denied involvement.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/hutt-valley-chamber-of-commerce-gets-facts-wrong-in-twitter-attack-on-jacinda-ardern.html

  9. gsays 9

    Grant hart, of husker du has died.

    He was 56 and had liver cancer.

  10. ianmac 10

    Amazing to me that the Media has made very little fuss about the Labour “U-turn” over taxes. That is a relief!

    • Grey Area 10.1

      Splashed across the front page of the DomPost today so not quite.

      • ianmac 10.1.1

        OK Grey but Stuff online have “Editorial: Labour’s tax clarity is welcome” so not condemning anyway.

        • Herodotus 10.1.1.1

          If only IMO Labour had continued with the 2014 line, that any tax changes will not be implemented until after the next election. Then many who want a change of govt. but feel their personal wealth could be threatened by uncertainty (Nats scare tactics) could see that most of the scare mongering was unfounded, and that we have had 3 years that the Lab govt had build up trust in the voter. Then the Nats could have been thrown in disarray as they implode. And that Lab would have kept their integrity, instead of being seen by some as moving to with the mood of the polls.

          • aom 10.1.1.1.1

            No Herodotus – your ethical approach would not have worked – you seem to forget that National is a party of liars without memories. How much of a fuss was there when the GST was raised after Key’s assurance that it wouldn’t happen? A solution: Labour need to make sure the Greens get into Government with them then implement a ‘Captain’s call’ using the National line as a precedent – “we had to accommodate the policies of our support party in the coalition”. ACT were credited with Charter Schools on that basis, even though National clearly intended going down that track as they had employed the infamous Lesley Longstone on her UK implementation experience before the election.

  11. nice

    Labour leader Jacinda Ardern has been greeted with a massive crowd at University of Otago this morning.
    About 700 staff and students turned up to see her speak and pose for selfies on the university’s Union Lawn.

    With room at a premium people packed on to the balconies above the University Union.

    Any signs that Jacindamania had dimmed were not apparent as she was given rapturous applause and people posed for selfies and stopped to hug Ms Ardern.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/massive-crowd-greets-ardern-otago-uni

    we WILL change this government and kick the gnats out and we will ALL be better off on that day.

    • Cinny 12.1

      and she had a huge reception on the Coast as well Marty, so I ear, I would love our electorate to swing the party vote back to Labour.

      And Marty, do you get “The Leader” over your way?

      If so check out the back pages for Maureens ad, at the bottom of it is the national “N” with a ticked circled placed next to it, looks like the word “NO” she’s had that ad running for 5 weeks now, cracks me up everytime I see it.

    • Patricia Bremner 12.2

      Thank you Marty Mars. Great post. The labradoodle? knows a great human!!

    • Anne 12.3

      OMG. Even the woolly wee dog was smitten. 🙂

  12. Tony Veitch (not etc) 13

    Just had a coffee at Muffin Break in the Central ChCh Bus Station, and, of course, popped my bean in one of the columns.

    Green column had slightly more beans than the Red column, with the Blue column third.

    All looking good!

  13. Barfly 14

    What’s the story with the Eminem case seems to have vanished?

  14. Pat 15

    this piece from a writer who everytime he puts finger to keyboard in recent years has raised my blood pressure or had me shaking my head in disbelief at his wilful blindness …a proud supporter (and to me , one eyed) of our current administration appears to had an epithany while out mixing with ‘the common folk’ ….and he senses the winds of change….better late than never is all I will add

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96824698/martin-van-beynen-a-changing-of-the-guard-is-on-the-way

    • ianmac 15.1

      Amazing for a dreadful Nat man Pat. He must be getting out and about and out of his protective shell. Good eh!

      • Pat 15.1.1

        might have been the trip up north…Christchurch has been somewhat internally focused in recent times

  15. Penny Bright 16

    (In less than 2 days – this video has had over 45,000 views…)

    NZ WHISTLE-BLOWER ALERT!

    The TRUTH about the Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ – GENTRIFICATION $CAM!

    “Penny Bright has been shining a light into the murky recesses of public/private partnerships in the Tamaki Regeneration scheme and revealed some disturbing details…”

    When are mainstream media going to ‘pick up the ball’ on this apparently CENSORED story?

    In FIVE years of this Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ project – there are more houses that have come down than gone up.

    237 Tamaki State houses removed.

    213 New houses built.

    92 ‘social’ houses.

    39 ‘affordable’ private sale houses for first home buyers.

    82 private sale houses (high-end).

    In an OIA reply from Tamaki Regeneration Ltd, dated 21 August 2017, information about the exact prices paid by private property developers for each and every former Housing NZ property was refused because of ‘commercial confidentiality’.

    How disgraceful is that?

    This is / was PUBLIC property!

    Is the apparent ‘CENSORSHIP’ of this story, by mainstream media, because the paper trail goes straight to Bill English, Nick Smith and Steven Joyce?

    Past and present Crown Shareholding Ministers in Tamaki Regeneration Ltd, to which 2,867 former Housing NZ properties were transferred on 31 March 2016?

    Which, IMO, makes this Tamaki SCAM story – political dynamite?

    Penny Bright
    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki.

  16. cleangreen 17

    We are now in deep shit as CO2 levels have now stubbornly stayed above the critical 400ppm level now for over the last four years.

    Increased CO2 levels now are scientifically confirmed as reducing our plant growth and their nutrient uptake levels causing our loss of minerals/vitamins avalable to us all during consumption. – Here are the facts;

    https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/effects-of-rising-atmospheric-concentrations-of-carbon-13254108

    “protein concentrations in grains of wheat, rice and barley, and in potato tubers, are decreased by 5–14% under elevated CO2 (Taub et al. 2008). Crop concentrations of nutritionally important minerals including calcium, magnesium and phosphorus may also be decreased under elevated CO2 (Loladze 2002; Taub & Wang 2008).”

    https://www.co2.earth/

    Earth’s CO2 Home Page
    Atmospheric CO2
    2014 July 401.61ppm.
    2015 july 404.50ppm.
    2016 July 407.25ppm.
    2017 Aug’405.07ppm.

    August 2017
    405.07
    parts per million (ppm)

    Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii (NOAA-ESRL)

    Preliminary data released September 11, 2017

    We know that atmospheric CO2 has ranged between 172 and 300 part per million (ppm) for the past 1 million years. The earth cycled through cold glacial and warm inter-glacial periods without atmospheric CO2 exceeding 300 ppm.

    The first time in human history that atmospheric CO2 exceeded 300 ppm was about the time the Titanic sank in the North Atlantic Ocean in 1912.

    Now, the crossover to concentrations that stay above 400 ppm CO2 is nearly complete.

    https://www.co2.earth/co2-past-present-future-article

  17. The Chairman 18

    The other day on RNZ Phil Twyford told Susie Ferguson that under Labour rents would stabilise or go down, yet he wouldn’t guarantee it.

    Do you think Phil will have to eat his words?

    It was a bold and risky claim for Phil to make.

    And while he didn’t guarantee it, if he’s wrong, not only will his credibility be damaged for asserting it, it will also damage the credibility of the Labour Party as it’s their policies and he is their housing spokesperson.

    There’s been speculation that a number of landlords would sell up, thus freeing up more homes for sale and in turn reducing rental demand.

    However, as landlords sell off their rentals and tenants move into home ownership, that will reduce the supply of rentals, thus merely offsetting the corresponding drop in rental demand. Hence, there would be no net difference in rental supply and demand from this shift.

    Moreover, another aspect being overlooked is the growing trend of taking property off the rental market and setting them up as serviced apartments or Air BnB. Cashing in on our high tourist numbers and the shortage of hotel rooms whilst reaping a far higher nightly yield. Therefore, coming down too hard on landlords may result in further encouraging this shift. Resulting in reducing rental supply.

    As for Phil’s claim that Labour will increase the housing supply, he’s overlooking it will take years for Labour’s Kiwibuild to meet current demand let alone get on top of it. Thus, in the meantime, Labour’s policies coupled with the overheated rental market will provide the scope landlords require to further increase rents.

    • cleangreen 18.1

      The Chairman

      I am looking for how many National Ministers statements that you have held to such a high standard as this.

      Can you advise me please?

      I just want examples of the National Ministers mistakes by example as this, (like mcCully for example) just to log into our data base please.

      • The Chairman 18.1.1

        Surely you’re not implying one has to critique National to be allowed to critique Labour?

        Being from the left I don’t expect National to represent my left leaning views, hence I seldom waste my time pointing out their many flaws. I waste enough of my time dealing with the right within the left.

    • Pat 18.2

      not a bad summation…couple of points…you have answered your own question re why he didnt guarantee it and as to eating his own words you will note as an experienced politician he never gave a timeframe so in effect it is neither bold nor risky and there will be no words consumed….however i suspect in their heart of hearts Labour expect the market to fall (not crash) due to a number of their announced policies and this is occurring on top of a faltering market already, so it is entirely possible there will be a rent reduction in the near term even if some investors quit the market , remembering that an investment property sold doesn’t disappear and still has function within the market.

      • The Chairman 18.2.1

        In her attempt to secure a guarantee, Susie did set a time-frame when challenging him. And although he managed to talk his way out of committing to a guarantee (reasserting his reasoning and claim) he didn’t question the time-frame. Nor did he use it as an excuse for not committing when he had the opportunity too. Thus, the opportunity to lower first term voter expectation.

        Therefore, he (through his continued assertion) has somewhat painted himself and the Party into a bit of a corner.

        While Labour plan to introduce most of their housing policies rather smartly, their impact on house prices (if any at all) will take some time to eventuate, thus it will be market fundamentals and perhaps further Reserve Bank interventions that are more likely to cause a correction/fall.

        And a fall in house prices doesn’t necessarily mean their will be a quick and widespread fall in rents. Some simply won’t sell in a depressed market and may decide to increase rents instead. Especially if rental demand remains strong.

        • Pat 18.2.1.1

          beg to differ…the mere prospect or notice of their policies will impact the market …investors will not wait around and so the impact will precede the act….same with the building programme…as to how fast and widespread the impact is, well thats an unknown but the direction is not…and it aint upwards

          • The Chairman 18.2.1.1.1

            As a number of their policies largely fall short, the impact you’re expecting may differ from the reality.

            Take their so-called ban on offshore investors. The impact may initially result in a flurry (adding upward pressure) with offshore investors getting in before they are shutout.

            Therefore, while they may act quickly, it’s not the in the manner you seem to be foreseeing.

            Moreover, the ban doesn’t prevent offshore investors from buying new builds. Thus, prevent offshore demand driving upward pressure on land prices, building materials, etc… adding to the overall cost of a new home. Which, in turn, tends to pump up the price of older homes.

            • Pat 18.2.1.1.1.1

              again i differ….the tenor and direction is increased restrictions and costs plus a reduction in demand (via migration )and the timing has been stated to be urgent(indeed the tendency may be to quit the market with the knowledge of the existing costs as opposed to the unknown, after all we are only one of many)….any last minute attempt to enter the market will be short lived…..all compounded by nervous banks reluctant to lend at current levels.

              • The Chairman

                A reduction in immigration is not a total halt. And when you have a market that is already struggling to cope with current housing demand, any additional immigration is upward pressure.

                Cost are generally passed on. Again, adding upward price pressure on rents. And restrictions (such as ring fencing losses) won’t impact all investors. And those impacted may restructure their affairs and increase rents to offset it.

                A number of offshore investors don’t require the backing of our banks to purchase. And banks themselves are walking a fine line.

                • Pat

                  ‘A number of offshore investors don’t require the backing of our banks to purchase. And banks themselves are walking a fine line.’

                  no they don’t, however those purchasing from them are likely to…part of the reason the banks are self imposing restrictions (over and above RBNZ requirements) is because existing rents are already unsustainable in the local market…as investors are aware any rent rise will simply increase defaults …on portfolios banks are already winding back.Costs cannot be passed on ad infinitum.

    • marty mars 18.3

      I see your red door, I want it painted black, no colors any more, I want them to turn black…

    • Herodotus 18.4

      A major builder has just announced his intentions to exit the residential building industry… So an already under strained industry is about to lose some of its capacity. And this after ONLY 7,200 homes last year were built in Auckland.
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1709/S00468/horncastle-downsizes-as-retirement-looms.htm
      Horncastle Homes is taking a new business direction and exiting the volume home building business in both Auckland and Christchurch.
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1709/S00468/horncastle-downsizes-as-retirement-looms.htm
      https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/horncastle-shuts-down-owner-eyes-retirement-vy-207731

  18. adam 19

    If you need a laugh, still political, but a laugh. 14.17 length

  19. Pete 20

    So it wasn’t the IRD, it wasn’t the MSD.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11922751

    Paula, Anne, Wayne …. we’re looking at ya!

    • So, if it wasn’t the staff at MSD or IRD then it must have been the minster.

      Simple process of deduction really. Holmes would have been horrified that we didn’t get it.

    • Cinny 21.1

      Bogus as, can vote multiple times by opening up a new window on your browser, also depends on who reads Stuff #nzpol

      • The Chairman 21.1.1

        Opening it up in a new window on my browser didn’t allow me to vote twice.

        Not that I wanted too. Merely testing your assertion.

    • miravox 21.2

      It’s Stuff – no surprises there, if you’ve looked a the usual tone of the comments that appear on that site.

  20. goodbye friend – you have shown us so much, I’m going to miss you, your photos, your insights, safe travels to the end

    https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/grand-finale/overview/

    • ScottGN 22.1

      For sure, it seems unfair after all Cassini has done. Couldn’t they have let it hurtle off into space to keep doing what it does?

    • This will ensure that Cassini cannot contaminate any future studies of habitability and potential life on those moons.

      And here’s me thinking that the best thing we could do is dump a thousand kilos or so of bacteria across Titan and see WTF happens.

      • marty mars 22.2.1

        I dunno that seems pretty irresponsible sorta like interplanetary littering.

      • McFlock 22.2.2

        worst case most likely outcome would be that it competes with or otherwise extinguishes life forms that we could have learned from.

        Like bacterial cane toads or rats.

        Worst least likely outcome is that the bacteria is viewed as a declaration of war by an advanced society we hadn’t detected because they were all subspace fields and teleporting, and the species goes all Independence Day on us.

        • Draco T Bastard 22.2.2.1

          I’m reasonably certain that if there was life there we would have recognised it when Cassini first flew by. The lander would definitely have shown it up.

          • marty mars 22.2.2.1.1

            Ever looked at an octopus? Well times that by a million – you’d recognise it when it wanted you to.

            • Draco T Bastard 22.2.2.1.1.1

              Nope, NFI WTF you’re implying. An octopus is easily recognisable as living.

              • I’ll make it easy for you. An octopus is weird especially when compared to humans now imagine that weirdness multiplied by a million. A million, not 100 , not 1000, not 10000, and so on. Do you actually think your brain could conceive let alone recognise alien life. I know you do and I blame fucken star trek and their hunamoid aliens.

                • Do you actually think your brain could conceive let alone recognise alien life.

                  Yes, it can.

                  Or, to put in other words: Do you believe pakeha are human?

                  It’s really easy to recognise life:

                  1. They’re born
                  2. They move
                  3. They breed
                  4. They die.

                  All that’s been detected upon Titan id the possible precursor to life. IMO, there isn’t enough energy to go beyond that else it would already exist.

                  I know you do and I blame fucken star trek and their hunamoid aliens.

                  I’d say Fuck the humanoid aliens except that logic tells us that humanoid lifeforms are most likely what you’re going to get from an evolutionary process for an intelligent species.

                  • McFlock

                    Is the planet earth an intelligent being?

                    • Still to be decided. The actions of the organisms, except humanity, do seem to act as a single organism though.

                    • McFlock

                      If it is an intelligent being, and uses climate and interactions between organisms to form thoughts like we have neurons, then what thoughts would it have? And is humanity a planetary alzheimers?

                    • And is humanity a planetary alzheimers?

                      Humanity would be a disease that it needs to be rid of and is in the process of doing so by making the climate uninhabitable for it.

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, running back to a doom slogan kind of underlines the fact that you suggested on of humanity’s last acts should be barely a step removed from dumping cowshit in the streams of Titan just to see how bad the contamination will be.

                    • McFlock

                      the other point being is that your 5-point criteria that make it “really easy” to recognise life doen’t rule out Earth, which meets none of those points.

                  • Mate your human centric view of the universe is quaint and illogical based on size alone – you cant even conceive how big it is or what is in it, yet your ego can write checks you cant cash and can’t even consider cashing – silly hu man.

                    And your plan is to leave a smear on a moon to see what happens – ffs come on.

          • McFlock 22.2.2.1.2

            really? Which instrument would have detected it?

            We’re not even sure there’s no life on Mars yet.
            And maybe complex life lives underground.

            It’s doubtful there are Klingons living there, but nothing is certain from a pinprick of a single probe.

            • Draco T Bastard 22.2.2.1.2.1

              Well, so far indications are that it still only hosts the possibility of life.

              We’re not even sure there’s no life on Mars yet.

              If there ever was life on Mars, it’s been irradiated by now.

              • McFlock

                Some fungi eat radiation. Sure, it isn’t solar radiation, but subsurface extremophiles are definitely possible.

                • I’m going to have to point out that I’m not really concerned about fungi – they’ll adapt fast enough.

                  • McFlock

                    Unless they end up like the dodo because our earth bacteria ate them all when we followed your plan.

                    And then we maybe never gain some revolutionary knowledge or medicine. Because we dumped a tonne of bacteria on a planet or moon we knew nothing about.

                    And that’s just the we’d be better off doing real science rather than assuming the universe is ours to shit all over argument, it’s not even the what if an entire ecosystem, of simple organisms maybe so, but an entire ecosystem grew and evolved over billions of years, creating an environment unique in the universe, right up until we came along – what does that say about us question.

                    • Unless they end up like the dodo because our earth bacteria ate them all when we followed your plan.

                      Life’s a bitch and the you die.

                      And then we maybe never gain some revolutionary knowledge or medicine.

                      Extreme possibilities aren’t what makes life work.

                      hey, did you know that Mars had spent the last few billion years losing its magnetosphere and its atmosphere (in that order) and that the chances for life to survive that is between slim and none?

                      BTW, I suspect that the first Mars landing failed to have such restrictions in place. I doubt if the Soviets, or the USians immediately after them, had such concerns as you seem to have. Same as the first Europeans who visited NZ had such concerns.

                    • McFlock

                      I think you’ll find that even in the 1960s interplanetary probes were developed and constructed in clean rooms. Chances of taking extremophile bacteria to mars are therefore minimal. If only because bacteria would fuck up their chromatograph readings.

                      Hey, did you know that getting a few metres under Mars surface would provide thermal insulation, protection from cosmic rays, and maybe even water?

                    • I think you’ll find that even in the 1960s interplanetary probes were developed and constructed in clean rooms.

                      So?
                      Was that because they were concerned with pollution upon another world or because it was necessary for the electronics to continue to work?

                      I think you’ll find it as the latter.

                      Hey, did you know that getting a few metres under Mars surface would provide thermal insulation, protection from cosmic rays, and maybe even water?

                      [citation needed]

                      And what difference does that make to life there?

                    • Poission

                      In 1991, as Apollo 12 Commander Pete Conrad reviewed the transcripts of his conversations relayed from the moon back to Earth, the significance of the only known microbial survivor of harsh interplanetary travel struck him as profound:

                      “I always thought the most significant thing that we ever found on the whole…Moon was that little bacteria who came back and lived and nobody ever said [anything] about it.”

                      https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1998/ast01sep98_1

                    • “I always thought the most significant thing that we ever found on the whole…Moon was that little bacteria who came back and lived and nobody ever said [anything] about it.”

                      An interesting point about War of The Worlds was that it was the microbes that ‘won’ the war.

                    • McFlock

                      Limited contamination might have occurred, but NASA was looking at sterilization in 1963.

                      Martian life might exist in some form. Your confidence exceeds the available data.

                      As for War of the Worlds, that’s another reason to avoid just dropping a tonne of bacteria on every rock we manage to reach.

              • Stuart Munro

                There’s reasonably strong support for extraterrestrial origins of life on earth – nothing cinematic – just protists in cometary ice.

  21. Nick 23

    Voted Labour/Greens today and persuaded my friend to do the same, she was going to vote National….only one vote taken away from them, but it still felt good.

    • cleangreen 23.1

      Well done Nick,

      Who in their own sanity would vote for this National Party train wreck?

      They are ending up selling everything in their next term if elected.

      Also the National party will sign us up to corporte controlled trade deals that will control our Government and our lives from overseas for the next 75 yrs and we will loose our country along with our freedoms and democracy.

    • The decrypter 23.2

      Nick, if she had voted National then she shouldn’t be your friend.

    • Patricia Bremner 23.3

      Great work!!

  22. Ad 24

    Voter turnout is 80,000 up according to RNZ news.

    Bodes well.

  23. Glenn 25

    Stuff.co is running a very unscientific poll that shows national ahead.
    I gave my click to Labour but it looks like a few more clicks wouldn’t go astray to change this flawed poll.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96897026/were-curious-who-are-you-going-to-vote-for

  24. Patricia Bremner 26

    Great work!!

  25. greywarshark 27

    I suppose everyone has commented on this but on the news about Oz the other day was that they had wiped their controls on every possible bit of media? sounds like, being able to be owned by one entity: Corporation Australia Ink I think. Inky dinky di etc. Wind back to flogging convicts on its way (sstart with NZs for practice).

  26. mary_a 28

    Jian Yang will review his citizenship declaration! That’s nice.

    Having listened to Yang speak in Parliament, in my opinion, he doesn’t seem to have a good grasp of the English language at all. Very hard to understand, even when I’m wearing my hearing aids! So now I’m wondering how was he able to teach the English language in the first place?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11922788

  27. eco maori 29

    The police are still hanging around my ass I no that the police and national are blaming me for making them look like idiots well no they are doing fine fucking up there image with there own actions thanks very much.

    Big upps for the number one song of the Worlds biggest count down of 1500 rock songs that is a awesome winning song.
    Killing in the name
    Rage Against The Machine.

    Now my main message Fonterra Theo don’t you think It is time you clean up that mess in Mango. It would be wise if you did this because it would stain your image if I have to clean it up. Ka pai

  28. eco maori 30

    All the Kings Horses and all the Kings men couldn’t put Humpty to gather again

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