Open mike 15/11/2011

115 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2011 ”

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1. tim 1

   15 November 2011 at 6:32 am

   Morgan Godfery on his blog Maui Street states

   “On to Te Tai Tonga and Maria said “Hurricane” (Clinton Dearlove) will storm Labour’s vote. Willie was on the right track when he disagreed and said Dearlove will steal Maori Party votes and hand the seat to Rino as a result. This is a point I made after the Te Tai Tonga debate.”

   Hey Morgan, would it not be prudent to acknowledge that “Hurricane” (Clinton Dearlove) will take votes off the Greens, New Zealand First, Maori, and Labour Party. Remember the Greens and New Zealand First are only running a party vote campaign in the Te Tai Tonga.

   Hey Morgan how about backing your story-telling with some data, or at least some logical reasoning if possible.

   Please try and explain the following?

   Te Tai Tokerau 2008 Labour Party vote 45% latest poll 27% a drop of 18%

   Tamaki Makaurau 2008 Labour Party vote 49% latest poll 32% a drop of 17%

   Waiariki 2008 Labour Party vote 51% latest poll 28% a drop of 23%

   The average 2008 Labour party vote in the Maori seats was 49% the latest poll average is 29% a drop of 20%.

   In the Te Tai Tonga in 2008 the Labour Party vote was 49% and the 2008 Labour candidate vote was 40% a drop of 9%

   In the Te Tai Tonga in 2005 the Labour Party vote was 57% and the 2005 Labour candidate vote was 45% a drop of 12%

   The average drop in the labour candidate vote was 10.5%.

   Therefore based on the 2008 party vote result of 49% less the latest poll average drop in support for labour of 20%, the likely result would have the 2011 Labour Party vote at 29%. However when factoring in the fact that the Labour candidate receives less candidate votes than party votes.

   29% less 10.5% leaves Rino Tirikatane with a likely result in the 2011 election of only attracting 18.5% of the Te Tai Tonga candidate vote.
2. vto 2

   15 November 2011 at 6:37 am

   Prof Margaret Mutu was interviewed on Stratos last night by the Southland interviewer that had previously fawned all over David Caygill after he and cohorts had taken over Environment Canterbury to get dairy irrigation underway..

   Anyways, Mutu was very smart and articulate of course. But she fell into a hole when she was explaining something along the lines that NZ is / was not one people but two peoples, or many peoples, and she then said “but Maori are the original people and that is the difference”.

   A few minutes later she was discussing immigrants who arrived a few hundred years after the Maori immigrants and complaining that they brought “a notion of superiority with them” that they were superior because of a belief in a different genetic makeup. Of course that “notion of superiority” is today more commonly known in these circumstances as racism.

   Mutu however is blind to her situation. Her claim that Maori are “different” than the other peoples, based on a belief that being first in line confers something special, is the exact same sentiment that she sees in the original English when they thought they were “different”, based on a belief that their genetics conferred on them something special. The English had it wrong then. Mutu has it wrong now. It is a shame that someone of such academia and outright knowledge (though clearly falling short on the wisdom front) cannot see the glaring hole in her outlook.

   I have had this argument many times but I have never seen any decent argument in support of Mutu’s “we’re different” idea. I am flummoxed as to why these supposedly smart people cannot see the stituation. But then I see why with Mutu – she believes her opinion as to “being different” is fact. Just as the English had believed their opinion re genetics was fact. It is a common human failing. And it is only the distance of history that can shed light on current situations for some people.

   Mutu was otherwise very good and openly expressed the unstoppable brilliance that Maori and Pakeha working together alongside each other to their maximum potential could bring these islands. But sheesh, this continuing idea that Maori are different and special is as bad as the old idea that the English were different and special. Spectacular fail. And until it is recognised as incorrect by Maori the country will continue to stumble in its race relatonships.
   • Bored 2.1

     15 November 2011 at 7:45 am

     There is something infinitely sad in being “special” or “chosen” because of some accident of birth, or equally sad about being disadvantaged because of the same accident of birth. I cringe at my English fathers attitude that represents his generations views on races / cultures other than his own. And I cringe at being asked to be responsible for historic wrongs, or at being deemed “inferior” because of my fore fathers.

     We in NZ have a bigger issue than just Maori Euro relationships, we are now becoming a Pasifika Asian mix as well. Fortunately our children will lead the way as Ranganui Walker says “between the bed sheets”. In a few generations most NZ children might have a whakapapa including Chinese, Tongan and European ancestories.
   • Uturn 2.2

     15 November 2011 at 8:28 am

     “I have had this argument many times but I have never seen any decent argument in support of Mutu’s “we’re different” idea.”

     The simple answer is that whether a person is a street sweeper, university professor or sportsperson, from time to time they engage in politics. Examine the context. In this country that means drawing lines between people: dark/ light, rich/poor, locals/immigrants, law abiding/criminal. That’s what Mutu was doing. Engaging in politics NZ style. What she said doesn’t have to make sense, she doesn’t even have to believe it, it just has to appeal to her target audience. When asked one way or the other, she’ll open a can of spaghetti reasoning for you to untangle. Welcome to politics 101.
3. mickysavage 3

   15 November 2011 at 7:42 am

   Interesting that the police has issued a warning to TV3 not to publish the cuppatea recordings.  I cannot recall the Police ever doing this before and there more than a slight stench of police interference in the political system.

   If people are interested the section the police are referring to is section 216C of the Crimes Act 1961.  The Act does require the interception to be unlawful, which requires the interception to be intentional.
   • Colonial Viper 3.1

     15 November 2011 at 7:48 am

     Let’s see if the media have the guts to have the police opinion tested in court.
     • Ianupnorth 3.1.1

       15 November 2011 at 9:12 am

       Not holding my breath for that to happen, bock bock bock……
4. logie97 4

   15 November 2011 at 7:45 am

   The PM doesn’t like the content of his public conversations revealed. Wonder why?
   Can New Zealand now watch this in a different light and still believe what he is saying about the cup-of-tea moment?

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GwcCNdTYyQ

   Some might say they wouldn’t trust him with the steam off their own …
   And what was really printed on that piece of paper when he tried to defend his position on the S and P issue.

   And of course there is this little beauty
5. Salsy 5

   15 November 2011 at 7:49 am

   We all remember Gordon Brown’s tragic accident with a microphone – that was aired. Surely there are grounds to have the tapes released in the name of public interest?
   • Ianupnorth 5.1

     15 November 2011 at 9:09 am

     True, certainly a worthwhile comparison. And key is very good at foot in mouth behaviour
   • Deadly_NZ 5.2

     15 November 2011 at 11:42 am

     What about Bill English and the Kiwibank gone by lunchtime secret tape.
6. Adele 6

   15 November 2011 at 7:51 am

   vto,

   There is a huge body of knowledge including from the academic community on indigenous thinking, ideology and ways of being. Indigeneity is different in the sense that its arguments, philosophies, dogma derive from the relationships it has to the natural world from which it emerges.

   That specialness that comes from being indigenous is not simply a Māori thing, 144 countries world-wide signed the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (only recently did New Zealand sign albeit with the proviso that it will have no material effect on NZ legislation or policy) which articulates the rights inherent in being indigenous.

   What is plainly an un-real expectation on behalf of people like yourself and the majority of Pākehā benefiting from colonial expansion is that we should be ‘all the same.’ In other words Māori, Pasifikan, Asian, should give away any notion of being Māori, Pasifikan or Asian and to, at the very least, parody a life of whiteness – to assimilate the values and aspirations of the western tradition.

   Aotearoa New Zealand is the largest Polynesian island in the world – a mini-England, Ireland or Scotland it should not be. If there is to be oneness than at the very least let it have a brown skin and a Polynesian tongue. The relentless pursuit of the assimilation of diverse peoples into a homogenous soup of blotchy whiteness is the crime – not what Margaret Mutu articulates. .

   Kotahitanga is unity of purpose – which recognises diverse interests pursuing a common purpose – a far better ideology in my opinion.
   • vto 6.1

     15 November 2011 at 8:06 am

     Adele, you make a couple of points sure, but kinda missed the sinlge base point I was making re the notions of difference, superiority, specialness.

     In addition, this point you make here …. “What is plainly an un-real expectation on behalf of people like yourself and the majority of Pākehā benefiting from colonial expansion is that we should be ‘all the same.’ ” is way off the mark and I cannot see how you can pull that assumption from my post. I say vive la difference, but not when it comes to the standing (legal, moral, etc) of separate peoples in one location (and in this regard I guess I am at odds with both the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigineous People and Te Tiriti. Both are/were no doubt appropriate for the existing circumstance, but both are limited by that same circumstance. They have an end-by date due to their failure to acknowledge the issue raised in my post).
     • Tiger Mountain 6.1.1

       15 November 2011 at 10:47 am

       Your waffle vto mirrors the denial too many people are in regarding the colonial and post colonial history of this country.

       Until all citizens have roughly equal health and wealth stats (improved ones that is) more people had better start learning about Te Tiriti and acting, it holds us all back as a nation in the meantime.
       • vto 6.1.1.1

         15 November 2011 at 11:01 am

         Which particular waffle and denial is that Mr Mountain? My point was specific – about Mutu’s missing link in her otherwise robust outlook. (point in post at 6.37 above)
         • KJT 6.1.1.1.1

           15 November 2011 at 1:37 pm

           A couple more generations, as R Walker said, when we are all chocolate coloured, will sort this out without any intervention.

           Going to the beach later to work on it!
           • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1.1

             15 November 2011 at 2:28 pm

             It’s all cool, though – by the time we’re all chocolate-hued we’ll have discovered other reasons to argue.
   • Uturn 6.2

     15 November 2011 at 8:37 am

     “The relentless pursuit of the assimilation of diverse peoples into a homogenous soup of blotchy whiteness is the crime – not what Margaret Mutu articulates. . ”

     You’re damn right is it, even if you’re white! I’d like it very much if as a nation of varied people, we all agreed that everyone should have – as unalienable right – enough to eat, a safe place to be, access to health free care and meaningful work.

     I don’t care which language we speak or what colour we turn, but if it’s brown skin we need, can someone turn up the temperature? It’s November for godsakes and it’s not even warm!
7. Bored 7

   15 November 2011 at 7:57 am

   See from this mornings Dom the Nats ( a branch of the Flat Earth Society ) are promoting roading again. At the same time Brent Crude flies high in prices and lwo in supply. Still infrastructural development follows the same mantra…roads roads roads….private transport.

   When will these goons get that happy motoring is going to be a thing of the past sooner rather than later and in a post growth shrinking economy this represents a massive misallocation of precious resources and money?
   • In Vino Veritas 7.1

     15 November 2011 at 1:29 pm

     There was once a PM who decided that oil was going to be (1) too expensive and (2) run out in the long run, who then built a synthetic fuel plant, electrified part of the rail network, built a dam on the Clyde, and a methanol plant. He is now roundly abhorred by the Left and castigated for these things. And oh, that’d be the Labour government that sold a good few of these projects off. Nice work.
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       15 November 2011 at 1:48 pm

       Actually I’m Left and I think that some of the infrastructure Muldoon built was damn good, and has supported the NZ economy for decades.

       Further, Goff admits that Labour made mistakes with asset sales and learnt from them.

       National hasn’t.
       • In Vino Veritas 7.1.1.1

         15 November 2011 at 4:03 pm

         yup, he’s admitted. He hasn’t bothered to flesh out what the mistakes were, and how he would have done anything differently, and which of his x-colleagues he is hanging out to dry. I suppose north of $9billion gives him the right to say he’s made a mistake though.
         As I’ve constantly said though Colonial, go see the late Roger Kerrs stuff, it makes a mockery of labours anti-asset sales arguments.
         • lprent 7.1.1.1.1

           15 November 2011 at 4:17 pm

           I have read it several times over the decades. Very short term thinker. He always seemed to think of government as if he was an assets stripper who only ever lived in a bull market.

           Of course most of the government procedures and assets are designed for hard times.
           • In Vino Veritas 7.1.1.1.1.1

             15 November 2011 at 4:35 pm

             Sorry lprent, I was referring to his series on privatisation on his blog. Its very interesting reading and covers the selling of assets, obviously, but also the impact on dividends.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               15 November 2011 at 5:25 pm

               It’s a load of bollocks is what it is. But that’s true of everything the twerp said.
               • McFlock …

                 15 November 2011 at 6:30 pm

                 Kerr or IVV?
               • In Vino Veritas …

                 16 November 2011 at 8:17 am

                 Draco, you have already shown in past posts that you couldnt differentiate a balance sheet from revenue statement, so calling the late Roger Kerr a twerp is a bit rich coming from you. I would respectfully suggest that his intellect would smother yours in a nano second.
                 • Campbell Larsen …

                   16 November 2011 at 9:55 am

                   IVV – you sound like a child boasting about how strong your dad is. You have a Kerr fetish – we get it – just don’t expect others to join in on the adulation.
                   • In Vino Veritas …

                     16 November 2011 at 11:05 am

                     All I have done Campbell, is direct readers to a series that analyses privatisations. And I don’t expect Kerr to be the recipient of adulation, and I certainly do not idolise the man. I respect him for his intellect, and I agree with his analysis since it is logical and hard to rebut. Perhaps if you read the series and debated it, your comments might have a wee bit more merit.
         • KJT 7.1.1.1.2

           15 November 2011 at 6:06 pm

           No it does not.

           http://werewolf.co.nz/2011/09/ten-myths-about-asset-sales/

           Any businessman knows that selling income earning assets to pay the grocery bill is idiocy.

           Not to mention the need to have control of energy assets, for strategic reasons, in a world where energy supplies are going to be extremely valuable.

           Kerr, Like Douglas and Brash is ether blinded by his religion or a venal thief.
           • prism 7.1.1.1.2.1

             15 November 2011 at 6:42 pm

             Kerr died recently.
           • In Vino Veritas 7.1.1.1.2.2

             16 November 2011 at 8:33 am

             “No it does not” What does not KJT? Are you saying that Kerr’s series does not debunk the nonsense rhetoric from Labour surrounding asset sales and loss of dividends?
             • KJT …

               16 November 2011 at 9:30 am

               Kerr’s ideas are nonsense. As reality has thoroughly disproved his ideas.

               All the countries who have followed Kerr’s religion are failing. Havn’t you noticed.

               14 Billion dollars annually off New Zealand’s balance sheet since the last round of asset sales.

               If you think Kerr was an intelligent man, it is just relative to yours.
               • In Vino Veritas …

                 16 November 2011 at 11:10 am

                 KJT, I’d be interested where your 14 billion dollars comes from.
                 You clearly haven’t read the series since you claim “reality has disproved his ideas” and “countries that have followed Kerrs religion are failing”. Therefore you have no idea what his ideas were. If you are suggesting that capitalism is failing, at least it will pick itself up and come again. When socialism fails, there are not comebacks, since socialism is great, until it runs out of other peoples money.
                 • KJT …

                   16 November 2011 at 6:11 pm

                   What’s this other peoples money. It is ours, we earnt it.

                   We should be able to democratically decide where it goes.

                   Neo-Liberal unregulated capitalism is running out of our money at present.

                   In Greece and Italy they are coming back with their hands out for more money to waste.

                   http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/2011/03/voodoo-economics.html

                   I have read the series. Along with many other economic and social commentators and experts.

                   Unlike RWNJ’s I read fast enough to have read more than Kerr in the last year.

                   14 billion dollars is the closest estimate I have seen of the loses to New Zealand’s annual current account, resulting from the last rounds of asset sales.
                   • In Vino Veritas …

                     17 November 2011 at 9:07 am

                     Greece has run out of other peoples money since it borrowed more than it could sustain. The Socialist governments did exactly what socialist governments always do, make promises that they have to borrow to pay for, to remain in government. They ran out of other peoples money to give the greek population a standard of living that they (1) could not sustain and (2) did not deserve.
                 • rosy …

                   17 November 2011 at 9:13 am

                   Ahem IVV…

                   New Democracy is the main centre-right political party and one of the two major parties in Greece. It was founded in 1974 by Konstantinos Karamanlis and formed the first cabinet of the Third Hellenic Republic. After serving as the Cabinet of Greece from 2004 to 2009 , New Democracy is now the main opposition party in the Hellenic Parliament after its smashing defeat in the 2009 Greek elections in which they recorded their historical lowest percentage of votes.

                   The right was in charge during the collapse – just like Italy….
         • KJT 7.1.1.1.3

           15 November 2011 at 6:24 pm

           14 billion a year says asset sales are a fail.
     • Bored 7.1.2

       15 November 2011 at 2:32 pm

       I actually had that conversation in 1982 with Muldoon at a social event….dont ask but he was not nearly as nasty as I had anticipated as a spotty belligerent twenty something. We agreed on the principle of energy sovereignty and the need to have internationally competitive and secure electricity supply etc. Might have argued details and costs but in principle he was on the right track.
       • In Vino Veritas 7.1.2.1

         15 November 2011 at 4:06 pm

         I also had the privilege of chatting to him Bored, and would have been spotty and 20 something as well! He was a damned clever man and I found him entirely personable.
         • lprent 7.1.2.1.1

           15 November 2011 at 4:16 pm

           It is one of those strange secrets of politics that I’ve always noticed with talking to rather large numbers of politicians and wannabes. Politicians are usually personable, nice in person, and very good persuaders. It is part of the basic job description that they should be likable in person.

           I tend to ignore what they say and concentrate on what they do. It is much more revealing

           I also look at the people around them more than I look at the politician themselves. Do they retain staff? How fractional is the debate when they are involved. etc… What is their demeanor towards opponents inside their party. Inside other parties. What do they do with critics?
           • In Vino Veritas 7.1.2.1.1.1

             15 November 2011 at 4:36 pm

             Quite so. And as a spotty 20 something, I doubt whether my questions would have been particularly taxing!
     • KJT 7.1.3

       15 November 2011 at 6:30 pm

       Said it before.

       If oil prices had continued to rise at the same rate, which everyone thought at the time, Muldoon would have been a hero.

       The problem with his Government was not the borrowing for infrastructure and assets.

       Many of them are still making good returns, for their private owners, after the first ACT Government gave them away, now!

       If Borrowing to make us less dependent on imported energy is necessary it is still a good idea.

       The problem was that Muldoon, like National now, borrowed excessively for bribes to National party voters. Farmers welfare, Super, Tax cuts etc.

       Sound familiar.
8. Campbell Larsen 8

   15 November 2011 at 8:54 am

   The Herald is once again showing it’s increasing irrelevance –
   Less than two weeks till the election and their front page lead story is about the apology of some kid who plays rugby for getting pissed and making a dick of himself on holiday.
   • prism 8.1

     15 November 2011 at 1:30 pm

     I agree Campbell L. I am so sick of hearing about this every time I put the radio on. And everyone is so caring and worried about the poor young drunk (I think he is just 21), the hypocrites. If those who were truly worried worked for tougher liquor laws they would be acting rightly. If we as a society showed determination to improve the situation and gave people the right to decide on the number of and placement of drinking outlets , that would be a plus in turning round this necrotising culture.

     Also change the attitude in society that finds excuses for the people who fall foul of the ferment (beautiful alliteration prism). Slam drunks in jail, fine them, put a set charge on everyone who uses the A & E and refuse to treat the violent and abusive.

     We all get stopped and breath tested as part of the pretence of doing something about drunkeness. So we are under surveillance in a semi-police state because the government and local authorities won’t or can’t make the changes to reduce alcohol addiction, because they won’t squeeze out the clubs and liquor outlets, reducing their numbers and making them bring in earlier closing times.
9. Jenny 9

   15 November 2011 at 8:55 am

   MANA MEDIA RELEASE
   14 November 2011

   MANA SAYS LANDLINE POLLS MUST GO

   MANA leader Hone Harawira urges voters not to be fooled by phoney landline polls that create a false impression about which candidate is in front and which one is behind.

   He says today’s poll released by Te Karere proves polls that rely on landlines are a thing of the past.

   “It has long been known that mobile phones outstripped landlines as a method of communication five years ago for Maori. It’s about time polling companies caught up with modern day reality instead of rehashing flawed methodologies that do not reflect accurately what is happening on the ground.

   “Polling companies and media networks need to be held to account. Instead of having minor margins of error, they should tell the truth when it comes to the Maori seats where the margin of error is give or take 20%?.

   “We know that Annette Sykes has done remarkably well to narrow the margin between herself and Te Ururoa Flavell. People should remember she began at 0% and iPredict, the country’s most reliable forecaster of election results, has seen Annette’s vote grow by 10% each week.

   “At present she trails Te Ururoa by the small margin of 10%. That means, based on the current trend, that she will win the election by 10%. That’s what we are hearing on the streets.

   “Her remaining vote will come from a collapsing Labour vote. The national trend with the party vote is that Labour is in a downhill spiral from 30% to a possible 20%.

   “Voters are awakening to the ability of MANA candidates, including Annette Sykes, to vehemently oppose National and the Maori Party plans to introduce policies that will hurt the poor. Left voters are being faced with two choices; put their faith with an imploding Labour Party or back MANA whose candidates have a long history of opposing right wing agendas?”

   “Cyclone Sykes is gaining pace heading into the election. The momentum is with her and I ask Maori from Waiariki to think about who will be best at stopping National in Parliament.

   HONE HARAWIRA

   Media Liaison Peter Verschaffelt

   media@mana.net.nz http://mana.net.nz
   • Ianupnorth 9.1

     15 November 2011 at 9:11 am

     The Waiariki electorate will be very interesting, especially as Tuhoe will be well behind Annette, as Te Ururoa was complicit in Hone’s removal.
10. aerobubble 10

    15 November 2011 at 10:11 am

    Children are not people too
    according to the welfare system.
    everyone on welfare is allowed
    $80 of income before being taxed at
    70 cents in the dollar, except
    of course the children (who are
    not people). Every child a
    mum on a dpb, or other benefit,
    should increase the threshold
    (before abatement starts) by $80.
    Routinely governments ignores
    Human rights, and we lack a culture
    of human rights thanks t the existence
    of the Human rights Commission
    shuffling human rights under the
    carpet or hiding human rights thinking
    in plain sight behind ‘Plain english’.
    Why are Children not considered people?
    Why can a grandparent open a trust
    for their kid that pays their kid
    $80 of income a week, that their
    parent cannot touch and so would
    be considered parential income.
    But a grandparent less well off
    who cannot afford lawyers cannot
    provide extra for their grandchild?
    Just imagine the nighmare, your
    kid gets a credit card given to them
    by your ex-partners parents, and they
    can spend like happy little tightwads.
11. freedom 11

    15 November 2011 at 10:39 am

    I hope the sleuths here are having fun figuring this one out

    http://www.whokilledjohnkey.com/
    • Tiger Mountain 11.1

      15 November 2011 at 10:57 am

      Know nothing of the guy apart from this little stunt. Mahon presents as a self promoting dick and immature provacateur at best. A team blue provocateur at worst. The artists job description involves button and boundary pushing but they should not expect to be liked for it. Two weeks out from the election? you tell us freedom what his timing is all about.

      Political assassinations are no joke whatsoever in my view. We have had two politically linked murders in this country-FG Evans Waihi miner and unionist and Ernie Abbot Wellington Trades Hall cleaner.
      • freedom 11.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 11:27 am

        It’s art for crissake ! Like most decent art, it is about perception. If you only see a crime, well that says a great deal about your socially programmed response when confronted with a reality that simply calls into question the morally and ethically ambiguous la-la land of modern politics. The work of the artist is not an assassination attempt nor suggesting there should be one. It is not condoning a crime nor is it commissioning one. It is not a crime to attempt to provoke thought in this country, yet.

        Based on the views expressed against this piece i suspect a large number of brain dead idiots will be lining up for an RFID chip when the reality of the rapidly approaching Police State is finally made public.
        The current media push on Tap’n’Go credit cards shows how the incremental plan is progressing nicely.

        I do wish some of the vitriolic statements made against free speech were focused on matters such as the Search and Surveillance Bill, or The Customs’ Integrated Targeting and Operations Centre or the untested Backscatter Radiation Scanners now in operation in NZ, but no, let’s just bleat about creative attempts to get NZ people thinking about the future that is beng stolen from their children.
        • Tiger Mountain 11.1.1.1

          15 November 2011 at 12:02 pm

          A number of commenters here and on other blogs have commented long and hard about the SSB in particular (and done stuff in the real world too). Kiwis do tend to suck it up, take photo drivers licenses, there were queues at the malls to bloody get one. Mate of mine held out for two years, could not afford the fines any longer.

          My main point with Mahon’s Key work is the timing. Self censorship? that is why I asked your opinion on the timing. Art gets no exemption sticker from politics in the middle of an election.

          I am happy for cows to be sectioned and mounted in formaldehyde filled glass cases, for small squares of semi gloss white paint to be slapped on matt white walls, for artists taking a dump to be videoed in close up, for artists to walk down K-road in crotchless chaps with no underwear; but I am not happy for an assassination image of the NZ Prime Minister to be launched in a tight election campaign that if National win will indeed be about “drill it, mine it, sell it”.
          • freedom 11.1.1.1.1

            15 November 2011 at 12:20 pm

            so you don’t mind being asked to think, you just don’t want that pressure during an election. got it! 😉
12. Jackal 12

    15 November 2011 at 10:53 am

    Who’s liable for Pike River?

    Then in 2008 National ignored a Labour Department recommendation that check inspectors be restored in underground mines. This undoubtedly ensured a lack of mine safety at Pike River with disastrous results…
13. Countersinker 13

    15 November 2011 at 11:00 am

    Green party link to billboard attacks.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/5967550/Green-party-link-to-billboard-attacks
    Dr Norman’s EA’s partner in fact.
    O dear, how sad, all of the nice caring image gone up in smoke.
    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      15 November 2011 at 11:45 am

      O dear, how true what the stickers said!

      Some removable sign enhancement is small change compared to the vandalism the National Party has performed on this country.
      • Pete George 13.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 11:47 am

        Russell Norman isn’t so flippant about it, it’s a major kick in the guts for him, from his own people.
        • Tiger Mountain 13.1.1.1

          15 November 2011 at 12:07 pm

          Russell just needs to do the obvious Pete with those involved and he should be forgiven by supporters.

          What a wallace that guy was appearing on RNZ though. Some people do lose the plot during election campaigns as even the Prime Minister has demonstrated.
        • mickysavage 13.1.1.2

          15 November 2011 at 3:19 pm

          Nah Pete it was sticky on words that were then removed.
          • Ianupnorth 13.1.1.2.1

            15 November 2011 at 4:38 pm

            Russell has to be seen to say the right thing, but like many of us know National is lying all over the place. A half page ad in my local paper today, full colour, building a brighter future, claiming they have reduced debt – lies
            • KJT 13.1.1.2.1.1

              15 November 2011 at 6:40 pm

              Column from Phil Heatley in the local rag. Taking credit for things he said they have done while in Government.

              All, but one, were started/approved while Labour was in.
14. logie97 14

    15 November 2011 at 11:28 am

    TV3 has a golden opportunity to question him and instead gives him a golden opportunity to totally deflect the focus – He has had hours to prepare himself for this interview and unfortunately the interviewer is a lightweight. She does however give him several chances to endorse Brash and ACT leadership and he cannot answer that directly either.

    Opening question:
    Q. “Do you have a clear conscience about what’s on the tape?”
    Key: “I have a totally clear conscience about what I’ve done, I think it’s the Herald on Sunday…” followed by 7 minutes of rehearsed diatribe.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-John-Key-discusses-the-teapot-tapes/tabid/370/articleID/232760/Default.aspx
    • logie97 14.1

      15 November 2011 at 12:15 pm

      There is one interesting moment where he talks about confidentiality being breached – “If we let this go then today me, next … could be you. We cannot allow this principle to be breached.”

      Go for it John Boy. We can’t wait for your public castigation of Paula Bennett over her breaching confidentiality in her totally inappropriate use of a beneficiary’s information to protect her own and your political hides.
      • Jenny 14.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 9:28 pm

        If we let this go then today me, next … could be you. We cannot allow this principle to be breached.

        John Key

        Surely all this is deeply ironic?

        Key was quite happy to “allow this principle to be breached”, when it was Maori who were being illegally taped. Passing legislation to retrospectively ‘legalise’, illegal and intrusive electronic snooping on Tuhoe.

        Inadvertently condemning himself with his own words, “If we let this go then today me,…”

        Cry me a river Key you hypocrite.
15. randal 15

    15 November 2011 at 11:31 am

    the whole thng was rehearsed from start to finish.
    the tories know how to waste time inparliament and how to deliver red herrings to the juvenile infants at present infesting the media.
    dumb and dumber.
16. Pete George 16

    15 November 2011 at 11:38 am

    The Greens have admitted going dirty in their campaigning, things are getting bad when they stoop into the mire.

    Most voters are turned off politics and politicians because of dirt, smear and negativeness.

    Time to clean up the campaign.
    • freedom 16.1

      15 November 2011 at 11:55 am

      No idiot, learn to read before you embarrass yourself again, and again and again.

      The Leader of the Greens has taken the front foot and outed the person responsible. A person who is in a relationship to someone who works for the Greens. Certainly it is a close link and yes if the party roles were different and it was a NACT worker’s partner i would say the same thing. Who do you think does the regular vandalism to all Party billboards if not those supporters linked to the workers and the volunteers of political parties? Do you honestly think all that damage is from people not interested in Politics?

      Based on your regularly discredited comments, it is little wonder you won’t even vote for yourself.
      • Pete George 16.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 12:29 pm

        ?? Are you trying to claim that calling for a cleanup of how we do politics is discredited?

        Yes, Norman has dealt with it very well, but it is still highly embarrassing to him and the Greens.

        Greens being involved in widespread planned illegal activity – which was totally unnecessary by the way the polls were looking – it illustrates how pervasive dirty politics is, if not directly in party leadership at least amongst party operatives.
    • joe90 16.2

      15 November 2011 at 12:44 pm

      Back biting, defacing hoardings, sneering and doing your best to smear the opposition is a tradition Pete.

      Some proper dirty politics for ya.
      • Pete George 16.2.1

        15 November 2011 at 12:47 pm

        It’s a tradition that in this day and age surely we could leave in the past.

        It’s usually counter-productive and counter to good leadership. We should demand better.
      • joe90 16.2.2

        15 November 2011 at 1:13 pm

        Good leadership?

        To me that means intellect, ability, passion, a well articulated vision of where my country is headed and the political nous to be able to get there.

        I’ve voted in every election since 1975 and the only politician that exhibited everything I wanted in a leader was Clark and the current offering, across all parties, leaves me cold.

        But good luck with that wee pipe dream Pete.
        • Pete George 16.2.2.1

          15 November 2011 at 1:16 pm

          The only way to achieve something is to try. I’m starting small and working my way up.
          • Colonial Viper 16.2.2.1.1

            15 November 2011 at 1:21 pm

            We’d all be better off if your leader was edged out of Wellington.
        • In Vino Veritas 16.2.2.2

          15 November 2011 at 1:35 pm

          “exhibited everything I wanted in a leader was Clark”

          And that would include the lazy $800K of tax payers funds inappropriately and illegally taken?
          • McFlock 16.2.2.2.1

            15 November 2011 at 2:50 pm

            keep playing with those venn diagrams, ivv. You’ll figure them out.
          • Draco T Bastard 16.2.2.2.2

            15 November 2011 at 3:28 pm

            You mean the funds that were decided, after 14 years of them being appropriately and legally taken, to be inappropriate and illegal?
            • In Vino Veritas 16.2.2.2.2.1

              15 November 2011 at 4:11 pm

              Draco, as always you are willing to put your spin on past history – check out the Chief Electoral Officer’s take on it “inappropriate and illegal” were his words. Doesnt matter how you cut it Draco, Labour were caught with their hand in the till as it were.
              • McFlock …

                15 November 2011 at 5:14 pm

                The same till that ate national’s GST invoice?
              • Draco T Bastard …

                15 November 2011 at 5:31 pm

                You do realise that every party did the same thing don’t you? And had been doing it for 14 years? And if the AG went back further than three months Nationals bill would have been quite bit higher?

                Not putting spin on past history – just relating how it was.
17. Penny Bright 17

    15 November 2011 at 11:44 am

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/11/russel-norman-apologises.html

    Oh dear – so it looks like any possible Green / National ‘coalition talks’ are probably now right off the table?

    How sad 🙁

    Not sure how telling the voting public the TRUTH is ‘defacing’ billboards?

    If the mainstream media isn’t going to provide accurate information in order to better enable the voting public to ‘cast an informed’ vote – then this ‘piggy-backing’ technique seems fair to me.

    I mean – it’s not like the National billboards have been physically damaged / knocked down?

    hmmmm……….. maybe it’s just that the TRUTH hurts?

    I predict that National’s apparently total reliance on fomer Wall St Bank$ter, ex-foreign exchange advisor for the (privately-owned) New York Federal Reserve, former Head of Derivatives for Merrill Lynch, current Bank of America shareholder – NZ Prime Minister John Key – is going to be their downfall in this 2011 election.

    As one of my banners (yet to be published by mainstream media), but which has been publicly-displayed in the wilds of the Epsom electorate, states rather succintly –

    “The KEY thing in life is sincerity.

    (Same election hoarding photo of arguably ‘shonky’ John Key)

    Once you can fake that – you’ve got it made.”

    A week is a VERY long time in politics.

    Eleven days to go…………..

    🙂

    Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    Campaigning against ‘white collar’ CRIME, CORRUPTION (and its root cause – PRIVATISATION) and CORPORATE WELFARE.
    • KJT 17.1

      15 November 2011 at 5:58 pm

      If there was any justice National would be in court for their bill boards.

      They should be required to tell the truth.

      Vote National. We will steal your wealth and assets and leave you to pay our debts..
18. Jackal 18

    15 November 2011 at 11:51 am

    Ignoring arts and culture

    National aren’t the only party putting arts and culture on the to do list though. An overall lack of any substantial policy creation has been highlighted in a current issue of the Listener.
19. joe90 19

    15 November 2011 at 11:53 am

    Naomi Klein: Capitalism vs. the Climate.

    Claiming that climate change is a plot to steal American freedom is rather tame by Heartland standards. Over the course of this two-day conference, I will learn that Obama’s campaign promise to support locally owned biofuels refineries was really about “green communitarianism,” akin to the “Maoist” scheme to put “a pig iron furnace in everybody’s backyard” (the Cato Institute’s Patrick Michaels). That climate change is “a stalking horse for National Socialism” (former Republican senator and retired astronaut Harrison Schmitt). And that environmentalists are like Aztec priests, sacrificing countless people to appease the gods and change the weather (Marc Morano, editor of the denialists’ go-to website, ClimateDepot.com).

    Single page
20. prism 20

    15 November 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Did I hear – “Sorry Russel, I had a brain storm and encouraged the vandalisation of about 700 National billboards”? Just the sort of activist the Green Party doesn’t need. Someone who outsources their brain work obviously.
21. Jackal 21

    15 November 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Radiation release unaccounted for

    The radiation is apparently not from Fukushima and the Czech Republic is adamant that none of their reactors have released radiation that would account for the higher levels of Iodine 131 in the atmosphere. So where the hell did the radiation come from?
22. prism 22

    15 November 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Why NZ can never compete in the modern world economy. Rakon a NZ business has had a 14 per cent rise in revenue but its profits cut by a rise in the exchange rate to 81 cents when it was 10 cents lower last year. Then it made a $5 million profit, this year on more revenue, a measly $569,000.

    Listen to the Radionz business report and get the details, and then you will understand why we are forever falling behind. Films occasionally show a person being dragged on the ground behind a horse. If we think of our country like this, being dragged along by a mendacious and vicious financial system we can get a true and instant image of our position.

    Why should, how can businesses stay in this country that pays lip service to wanting a thriving, innovative country but then allows the profit to be siphoned off through whimsical runs or drops in the exchange rate as a result of playing with our currency by the the financial masses, leaving us an uncertain amount that no planning can define.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5968560/Rakon-returns-to-the-red-shares-slump
    • Bored 22.1

      15 November 2011 at 2:54 pm

      I think the statement that we can never compete in a modern world economy is false but educated. If we really looked into this we would see that economies of scale and trade terms have a very distorting impact. Contrary to popular belief “free trade” deals rarely do anything fair for the smaller nations, in fact they merely open them up to anti competitive practices.

      One of the biggest problems we have is the differential of “slave” wage levels, for example we could never compete with Chinese wages because they are so low. Consequently we should in an ideal world create equal opportunity by tariffing them. It wont happen….but what will is that energy scarcity will level the playing field to a high degree in the near future. Those with adequate energy resources to leverage versus raw manpower will come out ahead.

      Come 2020 my forecast is that we will have a very hungry world, the petro chems needed to fertilise and plow will be in short supply…and then there will be the effects of climate change. Ugly picture but we will still in NZ be doing that one thing we are really good at is growing grass all year round and turning it into protein for export. That’s a distinct competitive advantage.
      • prism 22.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 6:54 pm

        Bored – I am blinded by tears from seeing our exchange rate swoop about like an out-of-control rocket. It’s seeing the carry trade et al buying and selling our money for short-term gains. We are quite small in the world economy yet I think we are 11th most traded, when there are over 100 countries.

        It just makes me despair as we keep watching our balance and footing as we run on this treadmill no-one ever admitting that we will never get ahead. Relying on big splashes in our small pond from oil shocks and climate change is dangerous. We will have given away our ability to grow what we want to Monsanto by then. The cretins in charge of our economy, the idiot savants, won’t recognise a tipping point if they fall over it.
23. Brett Dale 23

    15 November 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I hope the greens are going to compensate national.
    • KJT 23.1

      15 November 2011 at 1:03 pm

      Akshully. National should be prosecuted under the commerce act for false advertising on their bill boards. And thanking those who changed them, for helping them avoid prosecution..
      • Draco T Bastard 23.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 3:29 pm

        😈
    • Colonial Viper 23.2

      15 November 2011 at 1:05 pm

      Is a coalition agreement what you had in mind for ‘compensation’?
    • mickysavage 23.3

      15 November 2011 at 3:37 pm

      I hear Key is relaxed about it.
24. Tiger Mountain 24

    15 November 2011 at 1:00 pm

    So we have our very own kiwi curtain twitchers club–“Snitchline” over at blubbers blog. Disgusting, the ultimate neighbourhood watch. Not quite Stasi junior but given their political masters Search and Surveillence Bill who knows where such snooping will go.
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/11/information-please/#disqus_thread
    • Ianupnorth 24.1

      15 November 2011 at 1:12 pm

      Would expect anything less from the sickness beneficiary.
      • King Kong 24.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 2:04 pm

        comment deleted
        [sprout]
        • Ianupnorth 24.1.1.1

          15 November 2011 at 4:35 pm

          I missed what he said sprout – was it mildly insulting?
          • McFlock 24.1.1.1.1

            15 November 2011 at 5:49 pm

            Not from that fine fellow, surely!
25. McFlock 25

    15 November 2011 at 2:43 pm

    A humorous little story on stuff – Key’s bus crashes at the first corner .
    Not so humorous is the fact that two apparently legally parked vehicles “were broken in to police and shifted to allow the bus to pass” (in Stuff’s unparalleled sub-editing paucity). Isn’t that unlawfully interfering with a motor vehicle? Shouldn’t they just have driven the bus out the same way they brought it in? Arrogant fucktards.
26. marsman 26

    15 November 2011 at 2:51 pm

    ” The 1% are the very best destroyers of wealth the world has ever seen” George Monbiot, The Guardian.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/07/one-per-cent-wealth-destroyers
27. Dave Kennedy 27

    15 November 2011 at 3:08 pm

    The Green party is tested over National’s billboard revelations and it is interesting to contrast the way Russel Norman dealt with the situation compared to Key’s handling of the Standard and Poors debacle:
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/11/green-leadership-tested-over-billboards.html
28. joe90 28

    15 November 2011 at 3:28 pm

    History repeats itself on Wall street

    .http://i.imgur.com/5zlio.jpg
29. Jackal 29

    15 November 2011 at 4:30 pm

    National’s Election Hoarding’s 13

    On September 2nd John Key opened the Customs’ Integrated Targeting and Operations Centre, saying: “Anyone who is innocent has nothing to fear.”
30. William Joyce 30

    15 November 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Quick, someone get me some tissues. (*sniff*)

    Serious Fraud Office Chief Executive Adam Feeley says it’s concerning that fraud against banks and other lending institutions continues to represent a significant portion of SFO cases.  – Link

     
    I think it’s time we passed the hat around.
    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      15 November 2011 at 5:30 pm

      I think it’s time we passed the hat around.

      The National Government will organise that.
31. William Joyce 31

    15 November 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Closeup tonight is bringing in a lip reader.
     
    “I’m not sure what he’s saying but he’s definitely drunk”
    • Carol 31.1

      15 November 2011 at 5:08 pm

      heh. Is it possible to lip read much by watching a face from side on?
      • Jackal 31.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 5:17 pm

        Yeah! Key talks out the side of his mouth so should be easy.
        • Ianupnorth 31.1.1.1

          15 November 2011 at 9:01 pm

          And he sits on his brain (what little there is)
    • Colonial Viper 31.2

      15 November 2011 at 5:34 pm

      “I’m not sure what he’s saying but he’s definitely drunk”

      Its all a joke to the born-to-rule.

      This does provide an explanation with why Key was reportedly injudicious with his comments, however.

      What was Key’s prior engagement to turning up at the cafe? Why was he drinking at it?
32. Hilary 32

    15 November 2011 at 8:02 pm

    http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

    Incredible live stream from the police raid on Zuccotti Park and the Occupy Wall Street people
33. Jilly Bee 33

    15 November 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Just been to Meet the Candidates meeting for the Waitakere Electorate in Glen Eden this evening. I just wish someone had planted a recording device in the vicinity of Paula Bennett and Winston Peters – they were having a few intimate discussions with a few giggles along the way!
    • Campbell Larsen 33.1

      15 November 2011 at 11:05 pm

      Paula and Winston being intimate

      *shudder*

      Please no more detail, have mercy.
      • Jilly Bee 33.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 11:15 pm

        Campbell, that was my original reaction too!
34. Jackal 34

    15 November 2011 at 10:56 pm

    John Key announces brand new hoarding’s

    After a large number of National’s election hoardings were vandalized, John Key decided he would have to commission some more appropriate artwork for his re-election campaign to be successful. His brief was to design a new set of hoardings that captures exactly what the National party really stands for…

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