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Open mike 16/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 16th, 2019 - 121 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

lprent: And just for today, lets try it in reverse. May the seekers of the topmost position learn why they who speak last control the topic.

121 comments on “Open mike 16/07/2019”

  1. Morrissey 16

    Who the hell selects RNZ's know-nothing newsreaders?                                             RNZ National news, Tuesday 16 July 2019, 6:10 p.m.

    Just heard the dismal Susana Leiataua read a announcement about the former New Zealand soccer player Tyler Boyd gaining a contract with the giant Turkish club Beşiktaş. Except that's not what she read out: she actually butchered it, pronouncing it as "Beski-tass." She repeated it in the next sentence: "Beski-tass."

    The systemic decline of RNZ (chaired by that National Party stooge Richard Griffin) is, I'm sorry to say, continuing apace.





  2. A 17

    Pretty sad.  Just got back home and saw the most recent post from DFA on Youtube…

    Towards the end it talks about NZ selling everything but the kitchen sink.  Who the fuck is making these calls?  We will never, ever get that stuff back unless they are properly asset stripped first + price gauged. 

  3. The Chairman 18

    So I see Jacinda had time to watch the cricket which makes me wonder has she viewed that child uplift video yet?

    Cricket or child uplift, what's more important in your eyes?

    • The Al1en 18.1

      I'm not concerned.

      • The Chairman 18.1.1

        I wonder if Jacinda is concerned? 

        • McFlock

          I think she pays more attention to issues around OT than issues around the cricket, but she knows that most voters would like to see her watch the cricket than the video.

          One of them political paradoxes. Like how a self-professed left winger can spend more time shitting on a left wing opposition than a right wing government, then seamlessly become the new left wing government's most ceaseless critic while the right wing opposition takes a break now and then.

          • The Chairman

            I think she pays more attention to issues around OT than issues around the cricket…

            Her viewing choice suggests differently. 

            She knows that most voters would like to see her watch the cricket than the video.

            How so?

            • McFlock

              Viewing choice suggests nothing. I bet the millions of people who play fantasy football or what have you don't watch every single game in whatever league is is, but player stats, management decisions, and performance details are religiously memoprised and analysed.

              As for your "how so", Ardern seems to be much better at winning the support of the populace than you. Watch and actually try to learn.

        • The Al1en

          About the conflation of two completely separate things, to reach a negative narrative to share on here, probably just you.

          As you'll recall in reply to one of your earlier attempts at nat agenda pushing, I posted quotes and links to media sites where the PM said she was was well informed about the incident and general situation. Why smack that poor dead donkey again? Blessed are the poor dead donkeys.

          • The Chairman

            No. I was wondering if she was concerned with the public perception of her not viewing it. And as you can see above, one of my two questions was attempting to gauge the public perception of that on here.

            Being well informed about the incident doesn't compare to viewing it oneself.

            Moreover, that's the very least she could have done on what's become a major issue. There are plenty out there expecting better from her, but it seems you're not one of them. 

            • Pat


              "Not necessarily. Those advising the Prime Minister will, almost certainly, have dismissed Reid’s journalism as scandalously biased against Oranga Tamariki and its dedicated staff. She will have been reminded that the social workers featured in the video (as a result of which, the PM’s advisers will tell her, they have suffered social ostracism and death threats) were simply doing their best to execute an Order of the Family Court. Something which wasn’t just their job – but their legal duty. Isn’t it more likely that the PM’s been told that not watching the video is the best way of keeping her judgement unclouded by emotion.

              Quite apart from the merits, or demerits, of Reid’s video, it is also quite probable that the PM shares the same general view of the Maori underclass as her Labour Party colleagues. This view is shaped not only by the advice of officials, but also by the testimony of Labour MPs’ working-class constituents, and their own weekly contacts with the Maori underclass and its problems. It’s a view more-or-less guaranteed to render the PM impervious to the content of Reid’s video."

              A plausible explanation

              • The Chairman

                A plausible explanation

                If it's true she can't keep her judgement unclouded by emotion then perhaps it is. 

                Do you have any examples to show she can't keep her judgement unclouded by emotion?

                • Pat

                  do you?….and if this is indeed the case is it an issue for you?

                  • The Chairman

                    Do I what?

                    Moreover, are you asking is a PM that can't keep their judgement unclouded by emotion an issue for me?

                    • Pat

                      Do I what?….."Do you have any examples to show she can't keep her judgement unclouded by emotion?"

                      "Moreover, are you asking is a PM that can't keep their judgement unclouded by emotion an issue for me?"…..yes

                  • The Chairman

                    You stated it was a "plausible explanation" suggesting you came to the conclusion she can't keep her judgement unclouded by emotion. Hence, one would expect you would have an example of that.

                    I don't know her well enough to genuinely answer that.

                    We've all seen her express her emotions and we've seen how she has acted after that. Take Jacinda's Paris Summit for example. However, whether her mindset was clouded by emotion I couldn't genuinely say. Although, apparently, she did view that horrific related video.  

                    Failing to keep ones judgement from being clouded by emotion isn't a good trait for a PM.

                    • Pat

                      "Failing to keep ones judgement from being clouded by emotion isn't a good trait for a PM."

                      Then it may have been good advice well taken….IF that is indeed what occurred

                  • The Chairman

                    If that was the advice and reason it was given, it would suggest her advisors think she can't keep her judgement unclouded by emotion.

                  • The Chairman

                    @ Pat


            • The Al1en

              Seeing as you, for your obvious reasons, are the only one bothered by it, there is no public perception issue apart from the one you're wishing to generate.

              The PM not watching an uplift video and later watching a cricket match isn't a problem to me. It neither proves she isn't taking the situation seriously, nor the public hate her for it.

              Perhaps, as it's so shitty, you should stop using those poor uplifted children as a weapon to cast aspersions and satiate your eagerness to drive a wedge through the government and Jacinda's handling of it, and come up with some concrete evidence of her wilfully  negating her duties and responsibility to the voters who put her in a position to do good on their behalf. Shall I wait?

              • The Chairman

                Seeing as you, for your obvious reasons, are the only one bothered by it, there is no public perception issue apart from the one you're wishing to generate.

                Still singing that bullshit tune I see. If it were just me you defenders wouldn't bother. Clearly this has become a sensitive issue. 

                We know you don have a problem with it.

                And no. I'm not using uplifted children as a weapon. This is one of many issue I question Labour's position on. The video has spurred outrage and has become the center piece of a major political issue. Hence, many would have an interest in knowing if she viewed the actual video yet. Which is what I asked.

                Shows how bad things have become with Labour when one can't ask a question without coming under fire. And frankly, it sickens me that Labour have come to this. If they are going to take a position on something then stand tall and defend it, don't attempt to rundown those that challenge it.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  And frankly, it sickens me…

                  Get well soon. laugh

                • The Al1en

                  Now you're conflating the 'outrage' of the uplift with the premise (false as it is) of your first point about the PM watching the cricket and not the other video.To that, I have not seen or heard any outrage about the pm watching the cricket.

                  And yeah, sadly you are using these at risk kids for your own reasons. That's sad. You can't fool the site with your usual tripe, so now you're sinking ultra low.

                  As for singing bullshit tunes – Only with my pet robot on the channel inserts.

                  • The Chairman

                    Sadly you are the one using these at risk kids with your attempts (twice now) to throw shit at me.

                    And I'm sure you can sink even lower than that.  

                    I wasn't outraged she watched the cricket, I merely noted that she did. And wondered (seeing as she did) if she also found time to watch the video at the centre of this outrage. Next minute, you clowns arrive. Funny that, do you all work out of the same office our are you just one commentator with many handles?     

                    • McFlock

                      Ain't it nice that so many commenters are standing up against the army of sockpuppets, though. Lets you know that you're not alone, you really do have your finger on the pulse of the nation. /sarc

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Surely The Chairman is not surprised or upset by all the 'shit' thrown at them here by genuine friends of the left – after all, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

                      "I'm sure you can sink even lower than that."
                      The Chair @10:19 pm

                      Maybe I can sink lower, but The Chairman can't.

                      The Chairman's comments are fine examples of sub-par rwnj smears, duplicity and deceit, but The Chairman is slipping (up) – their weak attack lines are now way too obvious and exposed.

                      What will ‘they’ dream up next?  Try some subtlety, FFS! wink

                    • The Al1en

                      You're just getting stroppy because most people on here have seen through your game. If you can't cope with being an irrelevance, don't post like one.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              The "lefty" "more left than most" Chairman, on "relentlessly soggy" form! laugh

              "I wonder if Jacinda [New Zealand Prime Minister Ardern] is concerned?"

              "I was wondering if she [New Zealand Prime Minister Ardern] was concerned with the public perception of her not viewing it."

              "There are plenty out there expecting better from her [New Zealand Prime Minister Ardern]"

              "Do you have any examples to show she [New Zealand Prime Minister Ardern] can't keep her judgement unclouded by emotion?"

              I find watching cricket rather boring.

              The Chairman, friend of the the left? Yeah, right! Time for an Umpire Review.

    • Gabby 18.2

      How bout you chemmy?

      • The Chairman 18.2.1

        I viewed the child uplift clip. And have little time for cricket. I find watching cricket rather boring.

  4. Sacha 19

    Every new comment has its moment in the sun.

  5. greywarshark 20

    In NZ –

    Scoop celebrates its 20th anniversary this month. Scoop.co.nz is now the longest continuous running digital-only, free, public-facing news website in NZ. Founded in June 1999 – Scoop is slightly older than Stuff and slightly younger that the NZ Herald Online).

    Scoop is an ecosystem – a decentralised organisation and home for news and views from a diverse range of voices. It is a complex, living, breathing organism made up of a variety of autonomous players and parts existing in an intricate balance. This structure is a big part of Scoop’s resilience over so many years….

    …For 20 years, this unique approach has proved to be a highly resilient and efficient ecosystem-based approach – to the benefit of the information ecosystem in New Zealand.

    However, an ecosystem flourishes only when all of its parts are healthy, thriving and in a balance of mutual exchange. We are at a crucial juncture for the continued thriving of Scoop and independent online news in New Zealand in general. Last year we unveiled our Scoop 3.0 plan which seeks to move this forward dramatically creating more opportunities for readers and contributors to engage in building a progressive future and solutions focussed media ecosystem for Aotearoa. We are planning a crowd equity raise in 2020 to achieve this plan.

    In 2019 we also expanded ScoopPro to ordinary readers with ScoopPro Citizen. This service is completely optional, but offers members a way to support Scoop by choosing to subscribe to a range of professional-level news intelligence emails. There are three customisable levels that allow readers to access different level of news including regional news for all 16 NZ regions and updates on key sectors, Gordon Campbell, Scoop’s top stories and more.

    We are currently launching a pledgeme crowdfunding and crowdsale campaign aimed at reaching the target of at least 300 member organisations and 200 new ScoopPro Citizen subscribers.

    This is necessary to prove the ScoopPro model conclusively, as it will see Scoop break even for the first time since our advertising revenue dramatically declined in 2015. More importantly, it will enable us to continue with our planning for the equity raise to implement our ambitious Scoop 3.0 transition plan in 2020 and continue to evolve the journalism and services we offer our valued readers.

    >>>Support Scoop to go to the next level now<<<

    This is followed by more detailed info.


    They don't have a full paywall, but one that applies to business, however they are looking at funding that enables more and better, as Joseph Cederwall explains, being well-named for the job.

  6. Adrian Thornton 21

    Wonder when RNZ or The Scoop are going to interview Alan Dershowitz again? don't know how many of you fummed at the RNZ nine to Noon interview last year…                    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018632649/alan-dershowitz-there-is-no-such-thing-as-truth-any-longer

    I know I did, and also emailed the producers in protest, K Ryan of course never brought up his intimate involvement in the sex trafficking charges of Epstein, let alone follow up on his personal vendetta against Norman Filkenstein….Ryan useless as usual.

    Alan Dershowitz: Sure I Got a Massage at Jeffrey Epstein’s Mansion, but I Kept My Underwear On

    Watch the slime ball get dismantled in this classic…

    • Morrissey 21.1

      There's also his enthusiastic support for Israel's crimes: he once suggested, with a straight face, that the cause of Palestinians being shot had nothing to do with lawless I.D.F. marksmen or heavily armed terrorist "settlers", but was the result of wedding celebrations where the Palestinian tradition of firing guns in the air resulted in deaths when the bullets returned to earth.

      He's also a zealous advocate of torture, in particular the insertion of needles under the prisoner's fingernails.

      • Adrian Thornton 21.1.1

        Yes there is no doubt that Dershowitz has a less developed moral compass than any piece of dog shit stuck on the bottom of my shoe, hence my outrage at his 'soft' interview on RNZ and in Scoop…as I already implied Ryan is a lightweight interviewer, not really sure what she is doing hosting nine to noon…better than Mulligan though I suppose. And the panel has now degenerated into some sort of mindless giggle fest more suited to a FM drive show format…RNZ has really embraced with gusto lowbrow, shallow, thoughtless and pointless as it's new direction..the complete dumbing down operation on RNZ is now almost finished..well is complete from 9am to 6pm pretty much, with now only the occasional brief glimpse of what used to be, it is very sad.
        I never thought I would say this, but I am actually missing Guyon Espiner on morning report, he was just starting to mature quite nicely as an interviewer.

  7. veutoviper 22

    Best Interview on medicinal cannabis, its pros and cons, and how it should be managed, prescribed etc by the medical profession 

    I have just listened to an interview on RNZ National Nine to Noon that stands heads and shoulders above anything I have heard to date on the pros and cons of medicinal cannabis and its use in various medical conditions; and also how it should be managed by the medical profession.  

    I cannot recommend highly enough spending a half hour (unrushed) listening to this interview.between Kathyrn Ryan and Professor/Dr Mike Barnes, ie; 

    UK medical cannabis expert wants Kiwi doctors upskilled

    As New Zealand consults on the shape and scope of its medicinal cannabis laws, a UK expert is calling on Kiwi doctors to get themselves ready. Dr Mike Barnes is a neurologist who in 2016 was tasked with writing a report for the All Party Parliamentary Group on Drug Policy Reform on the evidence for medical cannabis. He's coming to New Zealand to run a masterclass for doctors on getting prepared to prescribe medical cannabis.

    Dr Barnes shared his knowledge and the experience to date in the UK of managing the prescription etc of medicinal cannabis in an objective and informed manner that avoided any bias for or against medicinal cannabis that IMO prevails in most interviews on the subject.  His recommendations on how it should be managed by the medical profession – eg upskilling doctors etc – are down to earth and practical.


    This is a subject of personal interest to me due to a genetic/familial autoimmune disease(s) I and others in my family have had or have, where one younger family member has now resorted to cannabis in preference to the legal prescribed painkillers due to the bad side effects etc.of the latter.  

    I look forward to hearing others views on this interview, and am about to shoot of messages to all the doctors etc I know to listen to Dr Barnes and get to his master classes.


    • Kay 22.1

      +1000 Brilliant interview. Required listening for all medical professionals who are hell bent on closing their minds to how this can work. Maybe, just maybe, it could get a few of them interested in at least attending his workshops.

      It's concerning to hear it's the Medical Professional's Bodies in the UK ('very conservative' as Dr Barnes describes them) as being the biggest obstacle to prescribing. I wonder how many Specialists/GPs as individuals would like to be able to but are feeling thwarted by virtue of membership of said Body? 

      • veutoviper 22.1.1

        So pleased you heard it too Kay – and endorsed my impressions of its high worth.  Medicinal cannabis is obviously of immense interest to people such as yourself.* 

        I am involved in a worldwide medical blog on my autoimmune condition, including as a occasional helper/monitor/moderator, based in the UK.  As a result of living in the UK (London) for seven years back in the roaring '70s and also this more recent activity, I have severe reservations about the UK medical system.

        I consider in many respects we do have a much better overall medical profession/system here in NZ despite 'warts' in certain areas such as MOH, ODI.   I know you are very anti-Pharmac and I certainly agree with your views in some areas.  Nevertheless I still believe that the Pharmac model is better than most overseas ones overall, but there is definitely room for improvement and a review. Hang in there.

        [* Shame it cannot fix faulty cars, after all they also have 'seizures' – LOL. Remember this  /open-mike-14-06-2019/#comment-1627903  I could not believe the equivalence drawn.   Cars can be fixed – human conditions …]

        • Kay

          Hi VV, just to clarify, I'm not 'very anti-Pharmac'- and agree with you about the advantages of the model for the most, nothing that regular realistic funding increases would improve greatly and that's on Government (and those who want all the advantages of a public health system but don't want to pay a cent more in tax for it).

          My recent rantings here have been the methods that Pharmac use to 'justify' some of their decisions, including blatant lying to patients, doctors, politicians and media, even when presented with published clinical evidence to the contrary, and the complete and utter disdain they have been showing towards the people affected by their decisions. There is some really dodgy and highly unethical behaviour going on behind the scenes there and it's incredibly scarey that they're being allowed to get away with it. The battle with my particular drug has been lost since all the supply contract with the drug companies are signed and they're locked in now, but the fight has to continue because the strategy they've used here- and this isn't the first time- will continue to happen. 

          But back to the cannabis- I do hope the Australasian Colleges of whatevers have a more open mind towards all of this. A friend of mine in London did try cannabis oil briefly earlier this year- legally, but not prescribed. She was importing it from the US and it was total guess work for her and for everyone else because there hadn't been any real trials done anywhere, so a prime example of trying as you go, but not the best course of action with epilepsy, especially unsupervised. While she really did have nothing to lose it did end up making her worse. It's not the miracle for seizures that somehow it's been hyped up to be and is raising a lot of people's hopes. I've seen that pop up on quite a few message boards, people convinced it's going to be THE cure for them. Thankfully this Professor emphasised childhood epilepsies CAN be helped with it but it's not even that simple. It's a lot of false hope that's been created and that's really sad. 

          • veutoviper

            I fully understand where you stand re Pharmac, Kay. I have maintained an ongoing interest from afar in Pharmac over many years as one of my older brothers (although NZ born and bred) was a bigwig overseas for one of the main US Big Pharma companies for 46 years (!).  He used to do a lot of their negotiating with Pharmac for years (which allowed him to get back to NZ for visits). Brother and Dr Peter Moodie (who was Medical Director at Pharmac for c 15 years) had very good professional relationship so I got to meet Dr Moodie quite a few times and was impressed.  Since Dr Moodie's retirement from Pharmac some years ago (2013?), I get the feeling that things have become less smooth, more political perhaps but I no longer have an 'eye' into what is going on internally there.

            Back to this morning's interview, what impressed me about Dr Barnes was his straight  upfront comments on where cannabis appears to be helpful and where it doesn't seem to be the magic bullet – gently but firmly attempting to dispel the false hope myth that some have been perpetuating.

            • Incognito

              I think Pharmac has always been under pressure from patient and industry lobby groups, which often go hand-in-hand in an unhealthy alliance [pun intended].

              However, what opened the floodgates for cynical political meddling was National’s cynical ploy to win voters in 2008 by promising to fund Herceptin and go around the Pharmac process. That and TPP have made Pharmac more vulnerable to attacks and once politicians start to waver it is only a matter of time before the system caves in under the pressure.

              I have to say the increase of funding for Pharmac in the latest Budget was pathetic and the excuse of the large increase large year is weak because this a catch-up IMO.


              • Sacha

                I wondered if the govt was miserly with Pharmac's budget as a response to the increased lobbying activity, so as not to reward it? Or are they holding it back for election year?

  8. Puckish Rogue 23


    Good on you Jude (Nationals Kane Williamson) keep holding the government to account like a good opposition MP should be doing 🙂 

    • Morrissey 23.1

      Does Kane Williamson engage in filthy politics and smear his opponents?

      • Muttonbird 23.1.1


      • Puckish Rogue 23.1.2

        Both are the MVPs of each others team

        Both are extremely capable leaders

        Both are honourable straight up types who care deeply about doing the right thing 🙂

        • JeremyB

          Why do you hate Kane Williamson so much, that you compare him to her?

          • Pete

            The comparison is probably fair. Having said that all Williamson aspires to do is to play his sport to the ultimate and lead his team to be the best in the world. In doing so he hopes to give his and their fans enjoyment and keep them diverted and amused in their journey through life.

            Collins wants to be the Empress of the World she inhabits and knows she should be because she knows best how the world should be for everyone and everything's journey through life.

            • JeremyB

              How many times has Kane Williamson resigned due to a scandal?
              How many times has Kane Williamson lashed out at reporters? 
              How many times has Kane Williamson been forced to apologise for his behaviour?
              How many times has Kane Williamson attempted to defend a non-compliant sponsorship deal?


        • Tc

          Gosh so what other personal business is Kane taking care of whilst representing NZ ?

        • Gabby

          Swamp kauri 'cricket bats' puckers?

          • AB

            Lol Gabby. Are they the ones that weigh 12 tonnes, have pointy bits and only Lance Cairns can lift?

    • reason 23.2

      …. how about the auditor general look into judiths unbelievable and factually incorrect defense of Nationals corruption enabling 'offshore ' legislation.

      As described by corruption busting journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown


      Why would judith stand up and expend political capital for rich criminals Puck ?

      Whats it all about ?

    • Fireblade 23.3

      With Judith's natural instinct to bowl underarm, her low centre of gravity and closeness to retirement age, she's more like a Lawn Bowler than a Cricketer.

  9. Ad 24

    Crikey Trump sure knows how to shank the Dems.

    After the Twitter comments today they cant nominate a white guy. 

    So they will have to nominate a female, which is electorally much harder to win with. 

    On funding, profile, party unity,  base support, and media dominance, it's getting much harder to stop this being a 2-term Trump presidency.

    • marty mars 24.1

      yep doesn't get lower than t.Rump. So thick, so malicious, so weak, so foul, and his base love him? Yep, they are just like him. Good people will continue to fight the racist, sexist bleached pimple and eventually they will win – time will force julius seizure to meet his maker and then his long traverse downstairs…

      “These are basically the politics of Herod: everyone go back to where you came from, then at least we’ll know where we are. Nobody here intends to kill any babies later on. Oh no. Or there’s a simpler reason: straight race hate. ”


      • Morrissey 24.1.1

        Good people will continue to fight the racist, sexist bleached pimple and eventually they will win…

        Good people will oppose him, certainly. The Democratic "leaders", on the other hand, aid and abet him by focusing on the fantasy of Russian meddling.

        • aj

          Chomsky nails it so well in that interview.

          Work for the rich and powerful, shaft everybody else but get their votes. Not an easy trick be he's carrying it off and the Democrats are helping him

          • greywarshark

            That is a very clear joined-up argument by Nomsky – explains a lot.

            • greywarshark

              After listening to Chomsky lead us through the minds of Trumps chief voters, I think he said the Northern Catholics and the Southern Evangelists as two main groups, I saw this comment in Time magazine, 3-10 June 2019 p. 16.

              Karl Vick interviewing Jeff Daniels who is acting in a new production of To Kill a Mockingbird playing Atticus Finch.  In the heading it says that 'he marvels at the appetite for public decency'.  Daniels says he sees the hunger every night.  It is as if people are saying:

              "Remind us, what is right again?  What is ethical?  Remind us what is honest, remind us what does  decency look like, remind us what compassion looks like?"

        • gsays

          Thanks Morrissey for that clip.

          Chomsky as always gets to the heart of the matter. I don't recall much fuss here on TS about Netanyahu addressing a joint session of congress….. but The Russians! The Russians!

          • Adrian Thornton

            Exactly right, and notice that the four Progressive Democrat Woman who Trump attacked on twitter, said specifically in their response..don't take the bait, don't let this distract you, that's because the Progressive movement in the US headed by Sanders have real answers to counter Trump all across America….unlike the establishment DNC who have nothing in their armoury but to oppose Trump just because..

        • Brigid

          You and others may find this interesting



          Edward Butowsky, in his personal and professional capacities Plaintiff,


          Michael Gottlieb, Meryl Governski, Boies Schiller Flexner LLP, Brad Bauman, The Pastorum Group, Leonard A. Gail, Eli J. Kay-Oliphant, Suyash Agrawal, Massey & Gail LLP, Gregory Y. Porter, Michael L. Murphy,Bailey & Glasser LLP, Turner Broadcasting System, Inc., Anderson Cooper, Gary Tuchman, Oliver Darcy, Tom Kludt, The New York Times Company, Alan Feuer, Vox Media, Inc., and Jane Coaston, Defendants

      • joe90 24.1.2

        Lady knows what to do.

        In Portugal a priest said that "fat women don't go to heaven" and a woman infuriated and threw him off the stage

        • Adrian Thornton

          Nice, nothing like a bit of direct action to let those in power know how you really think…that's why even now French politicians still respect the will of the people more than in most western countries.

          • greywarshark

            Marvellous woman – that so-called priest deserved to be shown some 'muscular Christianity'.

            • Morrissey

              Maybe someone will take similar action against Bishop Brian Tamaki one of these Sundays….

              • greywarshark

                What, dish the Bish.   No woman could bring herself to touch the bloke.   A lot of these cults set up a control-ring around their personal territory when it comes to females.   It's a bit disconcerting to hear about that in these enlightened times.

    • Gabby 24.2

      Of course they can, and probably will.

  10. Sacha 25

    @lprent – these comments are re-sequencing themselves.

    • gsays 25.1

      I have switched from desktop to mobile and the comments went back to the correct order.

    • lprent 25.2

      lprent: And just for today, lets try it in reverse. May the seekers of the topmost position learn why they who speak last control the topic.

      It is on the post today.

      This is actually a tool for the moderation post where we keep track of who is on bans. That is set to most recent top level comment at top. I fixed up the mod post last night, so i hanged this one over as well to surprise whoever was after top comment today..


      • veutoviper 25.2.1

        Oooww, ooowww – I am blushing …  For the moment anyway.  LOL.

        But seriously that interview blew me away and I cannot recommend it highly enough.  

        Forgot to mention that in passing The good Professor strongly endorsed NZ getting into the production of medical cannabis including as a credible supplier to the UK etc.

        PS – so sorry to hear about the little one. Big hugs to both you and Lyn. It takes a while, but the big lumps in throats and stomach eventually disappear and the good memories and laughs remain. You both obviously gave him a really good life, short though it was. kia kaha

      • Sacha 25.2.2

        Ah, sorry I skipped straight to the #comments.

  11. gsays 26

    After a sleep, the disappointment and emotions following the World Cup cricket final have abated a little. The lasting feeling is one of immense pride in our team, not only for the spirit they took into the games, but the attitude they have shown following such a close final.

    Martin Guptil, a player under immense pressure, embodied this when he immediately signalled a 6 following Trent Boults failed attempt to catch Stokes on the boundary.

    Hopefully this and the continued success of our Womens team will follow in to higher registrations for youngsters to play cricket.

    • Macro 26.1

      We were robbed! Robbed I say.

      England’s Stokes benefited from ‘clear mistake’ to earn extra run in final over

      • ‘Five runs, not six’ should have been given in unusual incident 
      • Former international umpire Simon Taufel: ‘It’s an error’ 


      • gsays 26.1.1

        You have no argument from me Macro.

        The attitude of those robbed on the pitch is exemplary.

        • greywarshark

          I liked the photo of the balck caps surrounding the guy on the field with his head bowed and the England player pats him on the head and holds his hand.   And I felt it was totally sincere.  It looked like one side that completely understood the other, and that they were both winners.

          Should have acknowledged this by declaring a draw, even if the first time, a lot of things have to be done for the first time!

          • Herodotus

            Yes even in the environment of international sport with a lot of $$ riding on results – touching of the empathy being displayed( not just this game but many that involved not just black caps and England/wales ) refer 4 years ago against Sth Africa, if only this could be replicated to a wider part of life.😇🤔

        • CHCoff

          It was during our batting innings and one of our players hitting a four; the commentators were talking about the up coming ashs tour and how that four shot showed what a great pitch it was!

          I was like to my co-supporter then, we've got a good chance of an english collapse later on in the game on the cards.

      • Herodotus 26.1.2

        so if the umpire now has to watch the fielder to ascertain when they are release the ball for the throw then how does the umpire also view the batsman’s running to see if they have made their crease ?

        this has happened once in the history of cricket where it has made a difference and on tv .

        felt for the umpires they both had a great game. All their decisions were understandable when having to make decisions in the moment. 

        There were no losers but only 1 world champion.

        • Macro

          Having myself played at provincial level and umpired at sub-provincial level I tend to agree. However the umpires did have recourse to a third umpire and tv reviews of the action, and could have called for that, at such a pivotal point in the game. Had they done so, the English score would have been reduced by 1 run at that point and Ben Stokes would not have been the facing batsman for the last ball of the match. That is not to say that the runs would not have been scored, but a weaker batsman would have been facing and the possibility of NZ completing the win much greater.

          • Herodotus

            true, but there is having to decide in the moment easy 2 to 3 hours later, I doubt any other umpire has been in the position, as all other times I have been in the position overthrows resulted by taking a sharp single, not from the boundary taking 2. As a cricket tragic I would have awarded 6, or expected it as a batsman😇

            on an aside a bug of mine is when “1 short “ is singled for a 2, 1 run is still rewarded even thou not a single run has been complete 🥴

          • Gabby

            The two actions would have to be caught in the same shot wouldn't they. The fielder throwing and the batsmen crossing or not.

      • Gabby 26.1.3

        Fortunately it's not a referendum or anything, so it doesn't matter.

    • Puckish Rogue 26.2

      The Blackcaps did us proud, they showed how sport can, and should, be played

      • CHCoff 26.2.1

        Yes, cricket can clearly be a great attribute of & for New Zealand.

        Havn't felt that way about rugby for some time ( thanks neo-conservative revolutionarys).

    • bwaghorn 26.3

      Something is deeply wrong with we must have a clear winner even if we have to make a decision using a stupid ruling idea. 

      It was a draw put two names on the trophy.  

      Am I the only sane fucker on this planet 🤔

  12. Sacha 27

    Leonie Hayden writes about attending the weekend's hui for a Māori-led inquiry into Oranga Tamariki, the Ministry for Children: https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/16-07-2019/the-children-come-first-a-day-at-the-oranga-tamariki-hui/

  13. A 28

    This is a very disturbing story that everyone needs to be aware of.  It reeks of corruption and lack of funding for the watchdog type services where complaints were laid but (predictably these days) nothing was done. 


    • Sacha 28.1

      Was also posted yesterday:  /open-mike-15-07-2019/#comment-1637223

    • Anne 28.2

      Saw this story on RNZ last evening. It shocks me it is still going on.

      I went through a similar process involving another Public Service agency years ago. It started out with a false allegation made against me and grew from there. In the end I had good reason to fear for my life. It happened in the 1980s and early 90s when NZ was going through an interesting time with its so-called allies. I refer in the main to the anti-nuclear legislation.

      Years later I came to discover the matter had gone well beyond the government department I worked for, and included politically motivated activity – some of which appear to have had its origins off-shore in the form of a certain individual who hailed from… the USA. A major cover-up had ensued which must have included the police whom I approached on numerous occasions. How else to account for their complete lack of action?

      I hope this story leads to better overviews of police practice in particular.

    • Sounds like she wasn't the only cop these guys approached, and not everyone refused. 

    • veutoviper 28.4

      It is indeed an interesting story, but personally it set off my antenna yesterday when I first read it from the 13 thread on Open Mike, particularly when I then read the wider view link put up by Sacha at 13.1.  

      When my antenna pings to the extent that it did, it is warning me to not take things at face value and do a bit of research, querying etc before making judgements.  

      Please note I am not trying to cover for NZ Police if they have handled an employment situation badly, nor being zenophobic about people from eastern Europe.

      In this particular case, however, some of the (eastern European) personalities involved in the wider picture as per Sacha's link and other things I know/have heard about these people and some of their other compatriots now in NZ (some of whom were in the news late last year), leave me thinking that there may be far more to this situation than meets the eye.   Time will/may tell … Or we may never know …

      • Anne 28.4.1

        Be assured there will be much more to the story vv. These situations have a habit of becoming complex over time – something I can attest to from experience. Trying to piece it all together can take years to achieve.

        But from what has been revealed thus far, it looks to me like this woman and her father had the misfortune to find themselves on the periphery of something quite sinister and, because of knowledge they may now possess, are being perceived by their tormentors as a threat to them.

  14. A 29

    Time to get out of ANZ?  These two articles appeared over Sunday and Monday and both reveal a disturbing culture behind the scenes of ANZ.

    This is the bank that loans to people nobody else will.  I'm predicting they will collapse, probably not right away but within a year or two.


    A letter from law firm Kahui Legal, representing Maria Campbell's estate, to ANZ's acting chief executive Antonia Watson, outlined executors' concerns: "The estate does not accept that the condition of Maria was such that she was able to freely consent to the opening of joint accounts hours before her death".

    "Further, is it acceptable for an ANZ worker to attend a dying person's home hours before their death to enable joint accounts to be opened? The estate does not accept that this is consistent with best banking practice."

    ANZ's investigation into Wai Campbell's complaint corroborates that its staff member went to the home on July 16, but the bank said he had acted on Maria Campbell's instructions, and his visit to her deathbed was "appropriate

    * * * * *


    The dairy farmers from Taranaki have for half a decade been fighting ANZ, New Zealand's biggest bank. And they've been battling the $81 billion bank (its sharemarket capitalisation) over a financial derivatives product so complicated that most of the bank managers selling it didn't understand what could happen if things went wrong.

    • Wayne 29.1

      ANZ collapse in a year or two? Seriously? On what evidence?

      Some disputes (which all banks have) is not a harbinger of collapse.

    • bwaghorn 29.2

      I'm sure it's only a coincidence that key ended up involved in the dodgiest bank in nz . Or is it birds of a feather fuckings us together. 

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