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6:00 am, October 16th, 2020 - 132 comments
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But is the statue of Colin Meads in Te Kuiti historic?? He's still alive, so I reckon not. Road signs with capital letters as big as a hand-span alert drivers heading north & south to where it can be found, and such civic care & attention to worshippers is indeed heart-warming, but I wonder how long it will take for woke activists to get there & do their eliminating…
"But is the statue of Colin Meads in Te Kuiti historic?? He's still alive, so I reckon not
'
Colin Meads died 3 years ago – sheesh
Oops, obviously I missed that news!
Brilliant self-elimination!
Shoelaces a challenge.
Watch out for those bold assertions Dennis – too many wrong ones and we will stop paying attention to you!
My comment on the Greens favoured policy:
Create a plan to provide training for new clean energy jobs.
is that I don't like the wording, good intention though. 'Less create, get a plan to provide' and actually have the word 'DO' in it. No paralysis by analysis. My guru Yoda says 'No try – just Do'. Obviously there has to be a plan, and that could be – Utilise all the present programs that are suitable and have been monitored and show good effect, and if they are keen have them put forward method and priorities and amalgamate them all, and have them carry out training, then compare their success rate, and include the trainees in the process for their opinion as to their success or note, and rejig things.
Get started, refine the practice with the trainees understanding that they are part of the study, and they will feel proud and put their best in. Only a year would see a huge change in attitudes throughout the actual working people at the coalface (new word needed for that). The workers are carrying the country forward and supporting the oldies, the young ones deserve our respect and support.
So Do That, Greens and prove your wokeness where it is crucial. (And to keep our irony level up for mental health, here is a collection of random opinions about what 'woke' means from the Urban Dictionary.) https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woke
actually have the word 'DO' in it. No paralysis by analysis
I wrote Greens policy on exactly that basis. I saw standard leftist language as defective, so set out to declare intent for exactly that reason.
Needless to say, subsequent Green policy writers reverted to type. Not quite as blatant with the weasel words as Labour, mind you!
Ah hah. Well I register my vote for Do and make it fit for purpose, and include the trainers and trainees and listen to them and work out quickly a practical way forward that they will all trial, and report on. Then they will all Own the project, which means that they will all feel that it includes their own ideas and wishes, and that they have 'Skin in the game'.
Simon Wilson asks
I hope he elucidates. Is her framing just a superficial rehash of sustainability? Or does it actually go beyond that, to provide strategic policy frameworks??
Both/and logic applies!
And most people have heard of her work by now, rendering such basic questions stale and pointless.
They haven't been answered in this forum, have they? You could prove that you're not just full of hot air if you provided the answers, eh?
Sealion away, good man.
Never heard of that, but found a few insights here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2019/03/07/sealioning-is-a-common-trolling-tactic-on-social-media-what-is-it/#197a2d467a41
Couldn't discern any from those competing meanings that applied to me, so I guess you're one of them people who misreads others on social media…
Has been deployed here more than a few times – sound familiar? http://wondermark.com/1k62/
No-one has all the answers Dennis, but the concept is attractive. "Mmm, donuts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughnut_(economic_model)
She’s an economist and you’re demanding her to provide “strategic policy frameworks” for whom? For the doughnut-loving National Party of New Zealand?
Has she considered fashioning a donut from mackerel? Ocean-faring mammals need to know.
So you haven't noticed Rod Oram doing it recently? You do realise that the academic discipline economists are trained in was originally defined as political economy?? Before they attempted to emulate the divorce from the real world that physicists succeeded in accomplishing.
Not all economists prefer abstract irrelevance. Some are motivated to make the discipline useful. That means outlining political implementation strategies…
From Drowsy M. Kram’s link @ 2.1.1.1.2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughnut_(economic_model)#Real_World_Economies_in_the_Doughnut_Perspective
Not sure what the relevance is of the history of economics as a discipline other than showing off your expert knowledge of said topic in order to establish your intellectual superiority in this thread. I’m impressed.
Of course, an ascetic of Praxis would describe economic theory as “abstract irrelevance”; you failed to apply both/and logic, again.
So many bigly words, so little meaning.
"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man."
Yeah, sorry about that. When in Rome, eat pizza.
"Is there any room to move in Ardern's point-blank rejection of both the Greens' wealth tax and a capital gains tax?"
Good article in other ways, but pity Wilson didn't answer that question. Is there a way now that Labour can agree to some kind of capital gains taxation? Or have they locked themselves, and us, out?
Ardern has locked the Labour party out of supporting a CGT while she's leader:
Ditto any kind of wealth tax, let alone the Green's.
There’s very little wriggle room here, which is a pity because I doubt that the wider NZ political scene will be better disposed to the introduction of a significantly more progressive tax system again in my lifetime. A lost opportunity, IMHO.
Don’t look down on detail, look up at the bigger picture and the endless sky. Don’t lose faith.
My faith is weak – I'm clinging to hope and a misquote.
Faith is like melting snow on rocks forming a little trickle that turns into a mountain stream, small, chaotic, disappearing between and underneath rocks. But it gains volume and strength and becomes a steady flow and then a giant river that can transport ships when it nears the sea. Have faith 🙂
But has the public spoken on a CGT or just the rich?
I don't seem to recall a referendum on it and that would be the only way to know.
Internal polling must say that the contested chunk of 'centre' voters with mortgages don't like it. And I bet the finance industry has been leaning on pollies too.
That's what I'm thinking but that's just a small portion of the country and not everyone.
Perhaps the Greens, after the election, should push for a referendum on it at the next election. Then we'd have the public speaking on it.
"Internal polling must say that the contested chunk of 'centre' voters with mortgages don't like it."
Would be interesting to see how much that changes if the tax was explained properly, both who it would affect and what it would fund.
There was a poll out today saying that 50% of NZers were in favour of a wealth tax.
Labour know which side their bread is buttered on though. For now at least.
A well-led public conversation would help, yes.
yep. She's ruled out a "GCT" and a "wealth tax", but is there any way that Labour can come back from this?
Don't know why she went that step further on the WT. Maybe their internal polling had them worried?
Could be strategy – clear point of difference between the Green and Labour parties? Hopefully the Greens will be in parliament and continue to advocate for a wealth tax. Careful fine-tuning may get the number of NZers in favour up to a clear majority – in this poll 53% of decided voters were is favour of a larger increase in tax paid by wealthy NZers than Labour is proposing.
Uncertainties include whether the climate for change will be any more favourable in three years' time, and whether Labour will continue to act as a handbrake in order to secure a third term.
Probably polling (going for the "govern alone" target), but it might also be a caucus/party-stalwart issue as well. Stamping hard on the idea certainly made JuCo's obseesion with it look stupid.
DTB's idea of a referendum to clear the way is a good 'un, but I also wonder if there are similar tax moves that haven't been ruled out, e.g. shifting the bright line on home investments and suchlike. Greens can leverage them in negotiations, circumstances permitting.
huge amount of wriggle room. its done all the time. very similar policy, with a couple of tweaks, call it something else and tadah!.
Chris Trotter's advocacy for yes in the cannabis referendum comes out of a fictional tv character – used to provide plausible deniability, no doubt.
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/10/fitz-on-cannabis.html
But Tova's announcement of the Reid Research poll this morning shows a widening gap and the fear-mongering has obviously become contagious amongst the hitherto undecided. Gangsters will be delighted that the nation’s conservatives still want to preserve their monopoly of the market…
"bugger"
Thinking about change needed re cannabis et al. 50 shades of grey!
Oh, oh we are being asked what we think. (We don't, we just react.)
It's so hard to read through all the stuff about cannabis – it's so dangerous, and it will have so many consequences if we agree to a change. (We mustn't have change.)
If we agree to change, who knows where this thinking business will end. Having done it once, government will be asking us about everything next. (What do we have gummint for and pay them all that money – how dare they ask us to do their jobs.)
We might get drug-deranged people come and live nextdoor, and that would be horrible. (We know how bad that can be from reports from one Standardista about what his elderly parents are suffering.)
Everything will get worse if people aren't under prohibition; it's not good now, so 'they' will get totally out of control. That's what all of us who try to live good lives think, and we don't want to hear any more about differing opinions, it's all greenwash! So there!
"Gangsters will be delighted that the nation’s conservatives still want to preserve their monopoly of the market… " You need to get out more Dennis, P is where the gangs are focused and have been for many years now.
Cannabis isn’t the business it used to be anymore as it's everywhere and anyone can grow it whereas P gives them repeat business.
Police would likely welcome a refocus of scarce resources to combat P so if it doesn’t pass then it’s job done scaremongers, NZMA, Key etc
Dennis what was the Reid Research poll released by Tova this morning?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/10/nz-election-2020-new-poll-shows-increased-support-for-no-vote-in-cannabis-referendum.html
I'm expecting the main poll to headline their news tonight…
that's very disappointing.
Ian, they use different topics from the same poll (yesterday's) to seed multiple stories.
Sorry, I stand corrected. Poll from overnight, not yesterday.
In regards the euthanasia referendum this article touched on an issue that adds to the reservations I have with what is proposed:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/euthanasia-debate/123070527/would-legal-assisted-dying-add-to-our-dire-suicide-figures
From the article, "Before legalisation in 2002, the Netherlands had some of the lowest suicide rates in Europe. For a period of 4-5 years after legalisation, that rate continued to fall, in line with what had previously been happening. However, from 2007, the rates started increasing dramatically and, over the next 10 years, increased by a staggering total of 33 per cent."
I found this news chilling, the Netherlands is looking at extending euthanasia to 1-12 year olds. How long until we are considering this?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54538288
the Netherlands is looking at extending euthanasia to 1-12 year olds. How long until we are considering this?
It won't be long. It's cheaper than actually providing hospice care.
Can you please make a comparison between NZ and the Netherlands and qualify how long it will take? I think it would be asking too much ask if I were also to ask for your figures showing that euthanasia of 1-12 year olds is cheaper than hospice care but this is a separate issue anyway.
That's a flip, throwaway comment about the very young rates Morrissey. Please don't treat this important issue as an opportunity for a quip, not in a public discourse. How you talk to your friends and family can be a comment in passing, but on here it 'sticks in the throat'.
Actually, I take with extreme seriousness the issue of people advocating for the "euthanising" of anyone, including young people.
Or do you trust the assurances about "safeguards" by that renowned moral philosopher David Seymour?
Then make your case on how the Netherlands compares to NZ. So far, all you have done is a throwaway comment that lacks context and nuance, no critical analysis or any thought from you.
If you think this debate is important and if you want to contribute, you’d better sharpen up!
From 1995 to 2006 the the Netherland’s suicide rate was between 9.5 and 10.7 per 100,000. In 2018 (the most recent year for which data is given in the link), the rate was 10.6 per 100,000.
The decrease in 2018 means the suicide rate is back at the 2012 level of 10.6 per 100,000. In the 1980s the rate was as high as 14.6 per 100,000 (for 1984).
Thank you.
There is a fundamental difference between suicide and euthanasia, which commenters here have completely ignored so far, for some reason. I think it is misleading to put the two in one sentence as if they are somehow similar or equal.
I wasn't trying to conflate the two issues. One can have an impact on another though.
In the article by Dion Howard he says "In the early stages of the End of Life Choice debate in Parliament, I noticed something shocking: the young people I was working with were rehearsing the very-same arguments used by those supporting euthanasia – autonomy, dignity and compassion – and applying them to their own situations."
Then "In my mind, I understand that assisted dying and suicide can, in principle, be distinguished from each other. That point is often made. But my real-life experience, and that of others in the field of mental health support, is that there is a huge potential for what the Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention has called “overlap cases”.
All good, nothing personal. Although there is, of course, overlap and points of connection, I personally think we’ll have a better chance at constructive and positive debate if we keep the two separate, at least at the outset.
“I found this news chilling, the Netherlands is looking at extending euthanasia to 1-12 year olds.”
“How long until we are considering this? ”
Well considering under the rules ..those poor children are suffering unbearable pain and are terminally ill…
I hope we are considering it as soon as possible.
But then I don’t form opinions based on listening to my imaginary friend.
Imaginary friend? Big assumptions there, outofbed.
The line between suicide and euthanasia isn't blurred for you at all?
I would rather, we as a society, were talking about what a life lived as fully as possible looks like and how to achieve it.
It would be good if we could live a life as fully as possible but people have to learn how to appreciate what they have to do that. We had a good life with opportunities for social mobility and advancement but for various reasons we gave up on that.
People can feel they have had a full life and choose to die at an early age if matters deterioratel for them. In fact when someone has gone through a process of personal and family/friends resignation and legal organisation, they are often happier without care for the future. Enjoy the life you have is the answer, and put some money aside to give to refugees in foreign countries – whether economic or fleeing violence.
That helps to give perspective about one's own situation.
"It would be good if we could live a life as fully as possible but people have to learn how to appreciate what they have to do that. "
Showing gratitude is a great step in the right direction.
How would someone who is either drugged out of their mind so that they can't do anything or in so much pain that they can't do anything going to live their life fully?
Ideally the pursuit of a meaningful life has begun before being stupified with drugs or in chronic pain.
As a start, learning mastery of the monkey mind. Putting the mind to task and being able to still or calm the mind. Instead of following it on one of its loops on high rotation.
Sorry, missed the how part- simple breathing excercises, meditation, yoga, tai chi.
And if that person is less than a year old?
Or how about if, even if 12 years old, has a mind of a 4 month old and its never going to get any better?
Or has a disease so debilitating that they cannot move by themselves?
Do you think these people are going to be learning simple breathing exercises, meditation, yoga, tai chi? To live a more full life?
At what point do we call keeping them alive torture?
Artificially prolonging a life by hooking someone up to a respirator—yes, it is reasonable to call that torture. Of course nature should be allowed to take its course in those cases. But to kill someone is something else entirely. And why are doctors expected to have to do the killing?
Under the conditions I listed – no its not. Keeping them alive is enacting torture upon them.
Because they're the ones qualified to diagnose and to properly use the drugs needed to enact a painless death.
Allowing someone to die is very different to "enacting a painless death", which is a euphemism for killing that person.
And, as I am sure you know, doctors take the Hippocratic Oath, which forbids them killing a patient.
You’re like a bull in a China shop. What do you know about the Hippocratic Oath and euthanasia? Very little, by the sounds of it. Are you familiar with medical ethics? It doesn’t look that way.
A one year old has to do less work than we do, it is only just starting to have an idea of self. Far less of an ego to overcome, still mostly a universal being.
"Or how about if, even if 12 years old, has a mind of a 4 month old and its never going to get any better?"
Better? As good as you are?
"Or has a disease so debilitating that they cannot move by themselves?
Do you think these people are going to be learning simple breathing exercises, meditation, yoga, tai chi? To live a more full life?"
If they do, they will be able to able to discern between pain and suffering.
/facepalm
You really don't get it do you?
The ones I describe are never, ever going to have a fulfilling life because their life is torture.
And you want to continue torturing them.
I reckon I get it ok.
If you believe that having impaired thinking or movement is "torture", you are closer to eugenics attitudes than you may be comfortable acknowledging.
Please own your own idea of what fulfilment is rather than projecting it onto others.
I hope we are considering it as soon as possible.
???? What would you use? Poison? Gas?
Until you’re able to lift your game beyond your current puerile level, I think it might be better if you refrain from commenting and just listen.
"Fatal police pursuit should not have been started: IPCA"
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/fatal-police-pursuit-should-not-have-been-started-ipca
Well theres a first. How many of these Police pursuits (often through busy streets) are necessary/safe? Some think otherwise…
The police are breeding specially for the genes with the chase impulse in their recruits. It is a closely guarded secret. It is planned that it will be as innate in the traffic police, as it is in dogs chasing cats. (I have heard this through the grapevine.)
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428474/woman-rammed-repeatedly-on-motorway-shocked-by-police-response
How's this for mature, responsible response in transport control!
Hermione McKeich says she was driving in a 100km/h zone between Melling and Petone, north of Wellington city, when the terrifying experience happened without warning.
She told RNZ's David Reid that four men in a small truck laughed as they crashed into her small Mazda, using their vehicle as a weapon against her.
I have had a small experience of reporting bad behaviour and it being belittled. My complaint was followed up, but the perp had some excuse and the matter was just dismissed.
Well, yes. I'm a Driver and Cyclist. Some of the fwits on our roads are mind boggling. Biking…Ive had them come so close the Campervan side mirror nearly hit me, cars "purposely" similar…Anyway it certainly makes you Situationally Aware. Re reporting…was it *555?
And an FYI (for The Interested) I support our NZ Police. They have an, at times difficult/hazardous job. I honestly feel that some of the pursuit chases they have engaged in were unnecessary/dangerous.
A kind and thoughtful man in Nelson developed a springy device that a cyclist could fit on the hub or the seat, can't remember. It stuck out to the legal width of spacing for cyclist's safety. I think it had a little yellow flag drawing attention to that outer line. They didn't sell, it was withdrawn. But maybe it needs to be recalled as judging distance is hard for drivers.
Ah yea that would work. But sadly, maybe only for the kind and thoughtful Driver? I was talking to some German/Swiss/Dutch Cyclists (pre Covid) and they said they had never struck so many seemingly angry/aggressive Drivers. They had the Hi Vis gear and Vis flags on upright flexi poles. One of the guys , sick of being passed so close, did like you said and mounted it off to right. He said some morons were actually going past trying to grab it !?
Oh and re your link with lady being rammed? Far out…they were prob P'd up. She def shouldnt been chasin them. Slack Police, aye..
We have always had hoons but I think a prolonged period of teaching not to be concerned about others, just be an individual and go for it, has meant many young males (and females) in NZ have become anti-social and angry 'white trash'. There isn't a better term for them. These people come from families where there isn't a lot of philosophical thought! Nor religion, of a kind that promotes kind thought and good sharing community. And when there are insufficient jobs that go on a regular basis, there is opportunity to get drugged or liquored up and amuse themselves. And then when there is testing for drugs before you can get a job, there is a really vicious circle.
The Vicious Cycle: Why the Poor Get Poorer
A vicious cycle (also known as a vicious circle) is when a chain of negative events reinforce themselves. The situation spirals in a downward loop, becoming increasingly worse with time.
https://www.jumpstartyourdreamlife.com/vicious-and-virtuous-cycles/
Yea I would agree re hoons….they were probably racing horses back from the pub in the day….
And re "a prolonged period of teaching not to be concerned about others"? Could we call that the neolib nineties?
Gonna take a LONG time to heal us. Hope our New Govt takes on it board.
Re the Cycle thing…talking to Dutch (born on a bike : ) and other Euro/Scandinavian Cyclists, its just a whole different mindset. In Holland if a car has an incident with a cyclist the onus is on the Driver to prove they weren't in the wrong. Aside from that they look more…
Can't say that I've ever seen religion promoting that. War seems to be more of what religions cause instead.
It's just possible the vehicle owner has a 'glittering future' and is therefore immune to prosecution.
If a driver finds it hard to judge distance then they probably shouldn't be driving.
Thanks for the advice Mr Perfect.
Someone with such poor eyesight shouldn't be driving as it endangers others.
More cameras and RADAR connected to an AI to estimate route and best place to apprehend the criminals would be the only way for this to work. Such will, inevitably, result in people whinging about the excessive use of surveillance by the police.
Ah what? Is this a dig?
The IPCA has come out with a statement about the use of more technology so as to help prevent these kinds of pursuit and death happening again.
But, as we've seen time and time again on here, almost everyone complains about the use of technology by the police to catch criminals. Calling it Orwellian and excessive and that the police shouldn't be able to watch everyone's every move despite the fact that its public information.
Thing is, I suspect that the statement by the IPCA is actually propaganda to help sell the idea of the police having more cameras and RADAR.
Yea I wasnt focusing too much on the IPCA…as they are well known for "nothing to see here,move along".
It probably is more to do with Andrew Becroft calling it…
Commissioner Becroft said if it's known young people are more likely to be killed or harm others as a result of a police pursuit, then the policy of chasing them should change.
He referenced a previous report from NZ Police which showed that between 2014 and 2017, police pursuits resulted in 22 deaths, five of which were of children under the age of 18.
"It's good that Police have been working on a culture change and training recruits in the dangers involved with chasing young drivers," he said on Friday.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/10/children-s-commissioner-calls-for-police-pursuits-of-young-drivers-to-stop.html
I used to be on "another political site" where the majority were in favour of chasing and indeed if it led to the young kids death then "good". Even when the poor buggers were burnt to death….Fuck those kind of ghouls…..
Vox pop
The reasons for voting choice are many and often bizarre
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018768610/election-2020-any-regrets-from-people-voting-early
We really don't know how lucky we are.
https://twitter.com/meenaharris/status/1316576818938421249
The Show Trial of Julian Assange carries on, virtually ignored by New Zealand's government and media
The Israeli-American human rights activist Miko Peled says early in this video: "What I find terribly troubling is the fact that so few journalists are actually standing up for him."
Hopefully, after the election, Jacinda Ardern will find the courage to speak out about this obscene persecution.
You expect the NZ Government to comment on individual court cases overseas?
Of course. She's supposed to show leadership, and integrity.
Do you think New Zealand was wrong to speak out against the apartheid regime in South Africa?
Your man aint no Mandela.
Your man aint [sic] no Mandela.
There are of course many similarities. Mandela was also reviled, ridiculed, and labeled a "terrorist" by the U.S. and U.K. regimes.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36296551
Thank you.
I have no more questions.
Always a pleasure, Mr. Cognito.
Not while participating in 5-eyes.
Uncle Sam will sanction dissenters.
True. But does Andrew Little have to be so craven as he was the other day when backing the Trump regime's demand to make phone data available to the likes of Mike Pompeo and his cronies?
The NZ government often comments on international goings on , particularly if prompted by our 5Eyes partners
Its a human rights issue, and our govt has often issued "statements" on that matter though admittedly only when supporting US/UK stances
I thought my question was quite specific and clear. Obviously, my bad 🙁
There will always be more answers than questions..
Indeed, but very few answers to questions 🙁
It's what we get with international men of mystery.
The answer of course is "No"
None of us expects the government to comment on this individual overseas court case.
If it were to comment on this case, we know that such comment will have been dictated to it by the prosecuting country.
Your answer is almost correct except for the fact that some of us expect so, apparently 😉
Good move, good news.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428477/success-of-rangatahi-courts-applauded-by-judges-and-minister
Critique of local Council not good, but may be good news if there is the right sort of improvement.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428478/southland-businesses-concerned-about-invercargill-council
…The Department of Internal Affairs requested information from the council in August following rising tensions between elected members, and at times, with staff…
It followed feedback from many of the 450 businesses the chamber represents and concerns also raised by the Department that several high profile capital projects – including the multi-million dollar city block development – were testing the capacity of the council to provide strong, unified leadership.
The Chamber believed there was a vacuum in leadership around the council table and many councillors didn't understand their governance role, he said…
How does the Department of Internal Affairs itself shape up? I can't remember what recent reports on their behaviour and usefulness have shown.
But it is inevitable that there will be disputes up and down the country as government entities bow to private interests. Bureaucracy has a lot of power and publicly elected councillors may say something is an 'operational matter' or be neutered by other interests, apart from any ineptness they show themselves. The civil servants/bureaucracy may just concentrate on efficiencies and projects that local governments in similar areas have introduced as modern, whatever those at the receiving end think. Then there is the high level of salary to the CEO and top managers and recruitment of overseas or neo-lib-soaked 'change agents' ushering in new approaches like weather bombs before moving away to their next target.
Assange is just the last of a long line of heroes targeted by the U.K.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/margaret-thatcher-branded-anc-terrorist-while-urging-nelson-mandela-s-release-8994191.html
https://www.ellsberg.net/public-accuracy-press-release/
Looking like almost 2 million will have voted before the election day proper.
https://elections.nz/stats-and-research/2020-general-election-advance-voting-statistics/
National Party caucus on Monday?
https://twitter.com/glitttermp4/status/1316250576188039168
Still laughing
Me too. That little pink thing is so purposeful, lol.
Her name is Nicola.
lol.
I'm not one. I'd like to see a journo interview the Greens co-leaders about that though. See how they handle the news that a quarter of the Greens support base disagrees with the principle underlying the wealth tax policy. My guess is that they would carefully explain that GP policy research didn't discover that fact. They may then add that some deep thought may be required post-election…
Oh noes, only three-quarters of Green supporters back the policy! That goose needs chasing..
Yep. All good pc-drones know minorities must be included in democratic process. Why oh why did they make the elementary mistake of not discovering such a huge minority before designing the policy?? That's what they'll be bemoaning now. Shock horror, reach for the smelling salts…
Relax Dennis – don't have a binary! The key follow-up question for that 25% minority is: "Would you swallow this 'progressive wealth tax rat' and party vote Green anyway?" Maybe the Green party drones did their research after all, but forgot to inform you of the results you – can't think why
😀
GP policy gets developed by active members. As I'm sure you know 😉
Out of the 60 people the poll spoke to who vote Green, 15 were oppose to taxing wealthy people more? What's the margin of error on that?
And what was the actual question?
So many people don't understand who the WT would affect and how. Betting the ratios change over time as it gets explained properly in the MSM.
There's a big difference between agreeing that the wealthy should bear a greater taxation burden and agreeing with the proposed wealth tax.
I'd like to know how much, if any, focus group work was done on the wealth tax policy outside their own circle. A lot of un-necessary discussion has happened that shouldn't have happened in the last week of a campaign. Although the Green Party's polling went up in the final polls, whether that was because of the tax policy or despite it probably can't be answered.
I don't think the poll was on the WT, but Labour taxing wealthy people more.
That we're having this conversation at all is a credit to the Greens, no matter what kind of solutions we end up with for social security, and the housing crisis. Now we can have a wide ranging public conversation about fairness and how to create it.
Please keep up, the poll question was quite specific.
This is another example of intellectual overreach.
”Nat-hub’s” Tova has been hawking a “nail biter” poll for 6pm tonight that “puts the election on a knife edge”…
Desperate headline from Tova. The only knife edge is Labour getting a majority of seats – 61. The Greens are on 6.3% and 8 seats, so Labour has mates. No path to victory for National and ACT. Labour clearly the winner.
Now a trust to preserve and maintain this is something I could contribute to. Does make me wonder though how many writers retreats there are around New Zealand?
I'd rather a trust own it than the state because future governments can't be "trust"ed to not sell it off for a later profit – just like Waikato University is doing so.
This is an interesting headline:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/nz-election-2020-jacinda-ardern-addresses-nasty-nanny-rumours-like-a-pro.html\ (my bold)
Headline still on site as having been put there an hour ago. Page missing, so been pulled. Sounds to me like the filthy yarn has been doing the rounds again. Also the accompanying photo of Jacinda looks suspicious. Think its been tampered with or it isn’t Jacinda.
Dirty politics?
I loved Newshub's description of the final poll tonight as a 'nailbiter'. The only nailbiting thing was whether Labour can govern alone (which the Reid Research Newhub poll suggests they could, just, with 61 seats) or whether it's an arrangement with the Greens. Labour 46, Nat 31, Act 7, Green 6 is very consistent with CB's last couple of polls. Tova says tomorrow night is going to be incredibly exciting – but it won't be really, at least not in the sense of a cliffhanger. Just a few stories around the edges of the main narrative. Obviously she wants viewers to tune in.