Open Mike 16/12/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:49 am, December 16th, 2018 - 86 comments
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86 comments on “Open Mike 16/12/2018 ”

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  1. Andre 1
    16 December 2018 at 6:04 am

    Why you should have a moment of sympathy for Jabba the Drumpf. A very brief and mild one that should already have come and gone, but nevertheless …

    https://www.salon.com/2018/12/15/all-donald-trump-wanted-was-to-be-president-and-just-look-how-it-turned-out/

    • Ad 1.1
      16 December 2018 at 6:41 am

      Makes me wonder if Trump will enable more firebrands on the left as well.
      Like Louisiana firebrand New Dealer Huey Long, sometimes it’s better to burn out
      than to fade away.

      • Andre 1.1.1
        16 December 2018 at 7:20 am

        I have no doubt the Chumpanzee’s antics have helped elect the likes of Ocasio-Cortez, That’s one of the very few bright spots of the current political moment.

        But in terms of making lasting changes for the better, are the firebrands more successful or does it work better to be a bit quieter and more thoughtful and willing to round off the edges to account for the other side’s biggest concerns? Seems to me there’s plenty of examples to bolster and refute both sides of that question.

        • Ad 1.1.1.1
          16 December 2018 at 8:12 am

          I’m just starting to think about President Trump’s legacy.

          Not in any of his policies, but in his communicative capacity, his strength in resonating messages, his willingness to break rules both social and legal, his smashing of institutions. He’s pushed what is possible.

          The inflated shape of Trump in the American mind has expanded big and will pop, but its space will be there for a long, long time.

          • Andre 1.1.1.1.1
            16 December 2018 at 9:26 am

            For sure he’s going to have an outsized effect on the shape of politics to come. But it’s still an open question whether it will be a long term spreading the boundaries to allow what was previously unacceptable, or a backlash because he’s proven the rules and norms have value and it causes real problems when they get trashed.

            Probably a mix of both, depending on which area we’re looking at. For instance, it would be a good thing if Americans got over their prurient hangups about their pollies’ sex lives, while also becoming less accepting of the powerful abusing their power for their sexual gratification. I’d be astonished if he doesn’t provoke a backlash round of rulemaking towards increased financial transparency and avoidance of financial conflicts of interest, and I can’t see any downside to that happening.

            • Ad 1.1.1.1.1.1
              16 December 2018 at 9:49 am

              I’m hoping for more, but there’s a few areas that will come up post-Trump family trials.

              I think there will be a vetting requirement to release tax affairs.

              Also in vetting, if we can remember that Democrat VP Eagleton who failed to disclose mental health issues, I suspect full banking records will need releasing in vetting.

              I’m looking to see whether the 1974 Supreme Court’s Nixon ruling on the tapes still overrides “executive privilege”. A general hard testing of executive privilege is coming up soon. General tests on privilege will get looked at.

              The citizen-inreach of the intelligence community is going to get a smacking. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 was an outgrowth of the committee’s investigations, and it created the special FISA court to authorize surveillance operations when driven by national security concerns.

              Also a protocol that the intelligence community should STFU about Presidential Candidates three months out unless they have ball-clenching evidential proof of treachery.

              Maybe something on further limiting paid lobbyists who also claim legal privilege. After Watergate, most law schools in the United States required courses about professional responsibility, and the American Bar Association rewrote its responsibility code.

              There will be a legacy of language. Words and sayings from Watergate are part of the common language of America, from President Nixon’s famous “I am not a crook” statement to President Ford’s declaration that “our national nightmare is over.” But nothing has been more prevalent that the use of suffix “gate” to indicate a scandal.

              If I were feeling adventurous, if he goes down in sufficient flames, we should see regulation of the Google and Facebook and Baidu networks, in just the same way that public US broadcasting was regulated in the early 1950s. Unregulated communications networks are killing democracy by degrading it, and none moreso than there in the US. Would need a united Senate and President to overcome First Amendment issues, but it has to be done, and arguably it’s the Trump Presidency that’s caused the need.

              Goodnight, and Good Luck.

  2. Ed 2
    16 December 2018 at 6:58 am

    Excellent article by Alison Mau.
    Looks at how we value lives differently.

    “No-one is talking. Nothing can be reported. When, at the Auckland vigil for Grace Millane on Wednesday night, I stood on stage and read out the names of all the 2018 victims, I could only refer to her as “the unnamed woman killed in Flat Bush”
    In contrast to the crowd, the waiata and the public sorrow for Grace, there were no candles, and no floral tributes laid in that South Auckland cul-de-sac.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/109365685/ali-mau-why-we-grieve-for-grace-millane-and-not-others

    • Ad 2.1
      16 December 2018 at 8:23 am

      That has got to be the stupidest article I’ve seen in a long time.

      Why on earth would Alison Mau expect every other case to get identical public profile as every other? Such a stupid case of ‘butwhatabout….’

      No young woman in the last decade has forced as much national self-reflection as Grace. The Prime Minister had to defend us to the entire world media. It’s very likely judges will reflect hard about the average tariffs for this kind of case, because they must reflect society.

      It is precisely because of this self-reflection that so many other cases will get stronger scrutiny, and the public debate will be raised higher. A great thing Alison surely?

      Mau is a ghoulish ambulance-chaser going after yet another grisly death.

      She should hold her breath for the trials.

        • Ad 2.1.1.1
          16 December 2018 at 9:13 am

          Little is just as stupid as Mau – and one of them copy-pasted from the other.

          Not all deaths will be treated BY THE MEDIA the same. They might want to hold up a hand mirror to themselves.

          We’ve had multiple social media platforms that have got better over years and years of such stories:
          – smoking
          – domestic violence
          – mental health
          – child poverty
          – drink driving

          They work.

          Just takes lots of sustained community effort that makes the likes of Mau and Little remember what they constantly forget.

      • greywarshark 2.1.2
        16 December 2018 at 9:55 am

        Poor Grace, it is her death that has woken Rip van Winkle (an old European fable) in NZ that has spent so much time asleep when it comes to deaths of women, and children also, and violence also against the vulnerable whoever they are.

        • marty mars 2.1.2.1
          16 December 2018 at 10:06 am

          Yes even the normal ignorers can’t ignore anymore because of that young woman’s death.

          The putrid dressing has been noticed and needs changed before being ignored again.

          I hope a catalyst for change is found and that change occurs.

      • marty mars 2.1.3
        16 December 2018 at 9:59 am

        Try reducing the hate buddy. You don’t get it – we hear you already.

    • marty mars 2.2
      16 December 2018 at 9:57 am

      Good article ed thanks.

      Some are too far into their priviledge to see the truth from Mau – they never would anyway cos it disturbs their leafy suburb thinking.

      • Anne 2.2.1
        16 December 2018 at 10:46 am

        Some are too far into their privilege to see the truth from Mau …

        There’s truth in that statement. A double standard has been operating here and I’m as guilty of it as anyone. To be fair, part of the angst is because Grace Millane was a visitor to this country, but nevertheless we don’t mourn the loss of all the other women who have died as a result of sexual violence to anything like the same degree.

        But if this particular death results in a change of direction in NZ, then something truly worthwhile will have been achieved. However the jury will be out on that one for some time to come.

        • BM 2.2.1.1
          16 December 2018 at 10:51 am

          How is her death going to change the direction of NZ?

          The whole thing was a ghoulish media driven affair done purely for clicks, eyeballs and egos.
          She’ll be forgotten within a couple of months once the media move onto their next cause célèbre.

          I’d rate the NZ media as some of the worst in the world, no better than paparazzi.

          • greywarshark 2.2.1.1.1
            16 December 2018 at 10:57 am

            And some of the commenters on news and views are pretty bad, but not good enough to be the worst in the world, though they will no doubt keep trying, and may yet succeed!

          • Tricledrown 2.2.1.1.2
            17 December 2018 at 1:15 am

            Boring Media fake news

        • marty mars 2.2.1.2
          16 December 2018 at 11:10 am

          Yes Anne.

          We know that it’s not a competition – it is a tally of shame. Our violence is appalling towards women. We have to stop it. The terrible death of grace may help some see what is right in front of their face – in their living room or mirror – I bloody hope so.

          • Ankerrawshark 2.2.1.2.1
            16 December 2018 at 9:56 pm

            Well I actually agree with Ad. Aside from which for whatever reason there was huge suppression around the south Auckland homicide, I have to ask myself why wasn’t Alison mau respecting that? It’s unusual, but I am sure the police/courts have their reasons.

            Some stories just do resonate more with people. Look at the Thai boys trapped in the cave. Or the young woman on the Gold Coast who fell off the balcony (?maori). I am sure maus research on how some ethnicities receive less public sympathy is true. But for god sake bringing it up in the context of graces recent murder I find in poor taste.

            Can’t we stick to the point, which is to use good research to figure out what might work in reducing homicide and violence towards all people

    • Herodotus 2.3
      16 December 2018 at 3:38 pm

      There are many terrible acts out there
      We have to reluctantly accept that some acts will attract varying media attention depending what others captures the news and public sentiment.
      It is what results follow these, better one captures the public than none. And all these deaths are a shock and we need to do better.
      We can only hope that changes do arise from this.
      And hopefully something similar from this 😢
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12176781
      Driving the Mercedes was 19-year-old Rouxle Le Roux, who had drunk wine and smoked cannabis earlier in the day.

      When Kraatskow crossed the intersection, riding a small bike and wearing headphones but no helmet, the Mercedes ploughed through the crossing, sending him across the bonnet and into the air. He landed some distance away and died at the scene.

  3. bwaghorn 3
    16 December 2018 at 8:27 am

    Fun fact .
    Obama built more Mexico wall than trump has to date .

    • greywarshark 3.1
      16 December 2018 at 9:57 am

      Where is the source of that fact bwaghorn. I thought that no wall was built till Trump started it, and there had been no agreement to make the money available before him.

      • Andre 3.1.1
        16 December 2018 at 10:15 am

        There have been bits and pieces of wall getting built for decades. I can even remember bits of wall at the border in the early 70s at Tijuana. So I wouldn’t find it in the slightest bit surprising if the rate of wall-building is higher under Obama than Adolf Twitler.

        The difference is up till now the building has generally been in response to specific problem areas, whereas the Grab’em’fuhrer made a mindless throwaway comment at an early rally, liked the reaction so he kept repeating to get the same reaction, and now he feels like he needs to be seen to be doing something about it.

      • bwaghorn 3.1.2
        16 December 2018 at 11:09 am

        On sky news this am . Bush had the biggest amount of kms.

    • Tricledrown 3.2
      17 December 2018 at 1:18 am

      B Waghorm States building walls is not Obama building walls fake news their is 700km of wall on the border non of it built by Obama. Facts please.

  4. James 4
    16 December 2018 at 8:40 am

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/12/australia-says-west-jerusalem-is-israel-s-capital-following-the-us.html

    Our Aussie friends say Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. “A step in the right direction “

    • bwaghorn 4.1
      16 December 2018 at 9:24 am

      In the right direction to what . ?
      Did they say where the Palestinian capital is?

    • Tricledrown 4.2
      17 December 2018 at 1:25 am

      James you don’t know why Morriston has done this!
      Bennelong has the highest number of Jewish voters of any electorate in Australia the Liberal Party lost the by election now are pandering to get it back and play into the anti Muslim White supremacist vote at the same time.

  5. greywarshark 5
    16 December 2018 at 9:10 am

    On RadioNZ this morning
    7.11 Meg De Ronde: the problem with ‘tough guy’ world leaders
    Meg De Ronde, Campaigns Director for Amnesty International New Zealand

    Amnesty International warns the actions of “tough guy” world leaders pushing misogynistic, xenophobic and homophobic policies has placed freedoms and rights that were won long ago in fresh jeopardy. Meg De Ronde, campaigns director for Amnesty International NZ, talks about the issue, raised in Amnesty’s Human Rights report for 2018.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018675805/meg-de-ronde-the-problem-with-tough-guy-world-leaders

    • Ad 5.1
      16 December 2018 at 9:34 am

      We’ve forgotten what we had – so we have to lose some of it.

      • greywarshark 5.1.1
        16 December 2018 at 9:47 am

        You’re right Ad so we need to be reminded of what we did have, and get highly motivated to save what we can from the remainder and work out methods to prevent it continuing or to limit its progress. Also we need to get powered up to organise systems to comfort and support those affected who have lost greatly at the hands of these apparently unstoppable forces.

  6. OnceWasTim 6
    16 December 2018 at 9:24 am

    HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I’ve found myself agreeing with Mark Richardson and Bill Ralston.
    (RNZ Media Watch on the media, name suppression and Grace Millane )

    And I guess Martin Devlin and the other ZB talkback hacks must be really disappointed

    • greywarshark 6.2
      16 December 2018 at 9:48 am

      A stopped clock is right once a day!

    • Chris 6.3
      16 December 2018 at 11:02 am

      It’s okay, just know that they’re still prats.

    • marty mars 6.4
      16 December 2018 at 11:13 am

      Why is knowing this name so important – what possible reason do people want to know his name for – I just don’t get it.

      • OnceWasTim 6.4.1
        16 December 2018 at 1:13 pm

        In order to gloat, label and reaffirm their prejudices @ mm
        Or as @ Wayne would have it, in the interests of “open and public” justice.
        Being the exceptional ‘entrepreneur’ I am, I’m thinking of starting a business manufacturing stocks – they’re the shape of the future

        • marty mars 6.4.1.1
          16 December 2018 at 4:19 pm

          The name tells 99.99% of the people who hear it absolutely nothing.

          • OnceWasTim 6.4.1.1.1
            16 December 2018 at 5:20 pm

            Well I’m not sure if you read this from OM the other day ( and the discussion that followed) :
            https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-12-2018/#comment-1561693

            but I’m now even more convinced that name suppression should be automatic until after a verdict is delivered. And if you listen to that Mediawatch thing, Martin Devlin had already jumped/hoped to a conclusion (as I say – In order to re-affirm, and even justify his prejudices).

            And while we’re feigning outrage at Google for emailing the defendant’s name as it ‘trended’, Google algorithms would never have received the necessary ‘inputs’ had not Brit journalists on the ground published (in the NZ legal definition) the name.
            Net result: Someone who is possibly guilty has a good argument as to the fairness or not of his trial.
            So much for that ‘open and public’ justice @ Wayne speaks of.

            But you know – yea/nah, next

            • greywarshark 6.4.1.1.1.1
              16 December 2018 at 8:35 pm

              I like ‘village’ detective stories. In these any crime is always attributed to an outsider, a visitor or a tramp; not one of us!

          • OnceWasTim 6.4.1.1.2
            16 December 2018 at 6:35 pm

            Oh, btw….. for a good many of them, it tells them what it’s not – specially if you’re a Devlin.
            It’s not a Hiriwini, or Khan or a Singh or a Wong or a Kwese. PANIC – what is it? Can’t quite remember, it’s a Smith-Jones? no… it’s a Ferguson-Llewellyn (with a single ‘s’ doncha know)?, no…. ummmm I think it begins with a ‘K’ (and one of those English sounding names)

            Thank Christ ‘D’ is nowhere near a ‘K’ in the alphabet eh?
            Whoar that could have been a near miss

        • greywarshark 6.4.1.2
          16 December 2018 at 8:39 pm

          Are you planning a new sort of stock exchange? For petty crooks, con artists, fraudsters I have been thinking recently that a day in the stocks followed by a week in prison, rest of sentence suspended while a re-education class is attended would be a cheap and effective way of dealing with these minor predators.

          • OnceWasTim 6.4.1.2.1
            17 December 2018 at 12:28 pm

            Hadn’t thought of that @ grey but as a true entrpreneur, I’m always looking for ways to monetise an idea (it doesn’t necessarily have to be my own idea either).
            I did have another idea though that I thought lprent could assist with (because he’s renown for his efficient programming skills – almost to the point of obsession) .
            We develop an ‘app’/application. The Police (or other prosecutors) simply provide the various inputs, and it’s sent to some sort of social media platform.
            We give it a week or so and count the number of ‘thumbs up’ and ‘thumbs down’ records received.
            We then determine guilt or otherwise, and depending on a set criteria, we deliver judgment.
            What’s not to like? We can do away with all that expense of a judiciary and the legal profession, and we get “open and public” justice. Very efficient and effective.
            Of course, anyone charged is automatically placed on remand in the stocks in an open warehouse where the public can walk by and decide on a kind of pre-guilt or pre-innocence and choose what kind of food to throw

            • greywarshark 6.4.1.2.1.1
              17 December 2018 at 1:36 pm

              Rotten tomatoes to you OWT. But peddle the idea to the Insensitive Sentencing Untrustworthies, they’ll be onto you like a starving dog.

              Having experienced my friend’s frustration dealing with a serial fraudster who plays the the law like a kid playing hopskotch, andI think it would add to our enjoyment of life in all its glory if we could see some of these non-violent scumbags face to face, at a distance of course, for their safety.

              The group for this type of punishment would include roaming non-tradesmen skimming vulnerable people, and ones who sell themselves as worthy and are not (a relation has had an 8 week renovation job extend to 18 weeks and encountered rudeness and being patronised when she phones Mr High and Mighty lead tradesman, and has had to endure two rainstorms while the roof was being repaired and the tarpaulin blew away, soaking the rooms below). And I am sure others can top these.

              This brings to mind a Gilbert and Sullivan patter song about who would not be missed. I’ll brighten my day and that of anyone who has a list and needs a lift. I’d love to go to the proms in London one day!

      • Gabby 6.4.2
        17 December 2018 at 1:52 pm

        So that we know who it ISN’T marty.

        • marty mars 6.4.2.1
          17 December 2018 at 3:03 pm

          It just seems like weird behaviour to me. I’ve seen it in a few things, this excessive compulsion to know – arrogant western thinking imo.

  8. mauī 8
    16 December 2018 at 9:45 am

    It is the beginning of the end…

  9. greywarshark 9
    16 December 2018 at 10:19 am

    Another sparking NZr. Radionz 10am ish.

    Award-winning Kiwi documentary maker Bryn Evans has been kidnapped twice, been caught in firefights, told the story of the Taliban’s cricket team, and introduced some hip-hop dancing pensioners to the world. Most recently he was the man behind the documentary about Scott Dixon, called Born Racer. He talks about the transition from photos to film and why he’s chosen Berlin as the place to hang out.

  10. greywarshark 10
    16 December 2018 at 10:59 am

    Fun and frolic from Paris early 1900s, you feel that you are there. It looks a good place to be – perhaps we should have stayed in the horse-drawn days.

    • mary_a 10.1
      16 December 2018 at 8:03 pm

      Thanks Grey (10) … being an old francophile from way back, I thoroughly enjoyed it 🙂 Loved the mobile platform/people mover. No doubt that would have been state of the art technology way back then.

      Certainly a lot has been done to improve the quality of the film. And the sound was pretty good too.

      • greywarshark 10.1.1
        16 December 2018 at 8:43 pm

        glad you liked it i thought it was a marvel – the sound is so good. did you notice that they used paired grey horses for the fire units? they were very showy and dramatic.

      • ianmac 10.1.2
        17 December 2018 at 2:31 pm

        How about that mobile platform mover for Central Auckland to the Airport?

    • ianmac 10.2
      17 December 2018 at 2:28 pm

      A great film grey! And how clever to adjust the frames per second to get such smooth action.

  11. Observer Tokoroa 11
    16 December 2018 at 11:20 am

    Why is Grace a Standout ?

    Because she traveled safely through South America on her OE.

    Grace got to Auckland, and within 2 days was Killed by some alleged cowardly Kiwi bastard. Just two days.

    That Bastard will no doubt pull out every sore finger and every bit of family scrapping and every bit “of poor me” to kid the Judge and jury that he is a down trodden lovely, lonely victim and not a Murderer.

    Whereas, the ONLY victim was Grace Millane (and her Family). They had no smarty Lawyer or dodgy Barrister. Or softy judge. Or tearful Jury – picked by the Barrister. None whatever. Grace had no one to save Her. No Lawyer. No Barrister.

    The murderer, with nifty Lawyer and greasy Barrister who’s fees will be paid by the NZ Worker, will be searching under every leaf to declare “The alleged Murderer a poor very low intelligence person who enjoyed having a good time day and night. Especially when it came to that fullfilling game called Sex and Murder. A person who must not be named.”

    Oh yes. And very likely not to be held to account. For such is the strange ease of getting free of any serious charge within New Zealand Law.

    I am not sure about the “wonderful” other 18 +2 Femme Murders this year, but certainly a number of those who were murdered were known to the Victim.

    The message is: Women should not trust any NZ male who knows them. Get well away from them. Go to any lengths to remove those men from your life.

    NZ males adore violence and sex. Unlike other civilised places. The games they play are full of violence. They are also cowardly. To make matters worse, they are often drug and gang centered too. But they know how to Kill. Oh Yes. !

    • greywarshark 11.1
      16 December 2018 at 1:36 pm

      Hey Observer
      Restrain yourself. You are sounding so law and order then you can come up with this:
      Whereas, the ONLY victim was Grace Millane (and her Family). They had no smarty Lawyer or dodgy Barrister. Or softy judge. Or tearful Jury – picked by the Barrister. None whatever. Grace had no one to save Her. No Lawyer. No Barrister.
      The murderer, with nifty Lawyer and greasy Barrister who’s fees will be paid by the NZ Worker,

      The lawyers, the courts, the police are all paid for by us as part of a law-based society. That’s something to be cherished. Otherwise we get people like yourself all riled up and looking for someone to hang, at worst any likely person you can pin the crime on will do.

      Our system at present has not been sufficient to bring up men with good standards of behaviour at all times, or discourage men who are through and through shits, but that is not the lawyers fault, it is the way that all of us allow society to proceed. And we get an example from the screen, films and television are laced with sex, crims and cunning and most find that enticing to watch. For instance, Godfather has been a great success as good cinema – all about the Mafia.

      We enable drunkenness which is at the base of much of our criminality and enables men and women to become untrustworthy liars. So don’t vent your spleen on the justice system when bad results result from all this twisted-mind behaviour going from theory to practice. Even police have been affected by the dominant sexual ideas that swirl in many people’s heads. It is a virus in society that breaks out openly regularly, and always treated as a rare occurrence instead of a hidden chronic weakness.

  12. Draco T Bastard 12
    16 December 2018 at 11:53 am

    Australia’s LNG export surge fuels domestic supply concerns

    Australia overtook Qatar to become the world’s biggest exporter of liquefied natural gas last month following a $200bn decade-long investment to ship the fuel to Asia. But the export boom has come at a cost.

    The country is now facing a looming domestic gas shortage in its most populous states, leading prices to skyrocket and concerns over security of supply to increase. 

    When local resources are exported then locals find that they can no longer afford to live.

    We’ve seen this happen here as well.

  13. marty mars 13
    16 December 2018 at 12:48 pm

    Vlad getting on one – wonder why?

    Putin says “if it is impossible to stop, then we must lead it and direct it”…

    … Putin noted that “rap is based on three pillars: sex, drugs and protest”. But he is particularly concerned with drug themes prevalent in rap, saying “this is a path to the degradation of the nation.” He said “drug propaganda” is worse than cursing.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/109388425/president-vladimir-putin-says-rap-should-be-controlled-in-russia-not-banned

  14. alwyn 14
    16 December 2018 at 12:58 pm

    At the time of the election earlier this year I pointed out that it was a total fiasco and that the Minister responsible should take responsibility for the only real job he has.
    He should have.
    Arranged for a repeat of the Census.
    Sacked the head of the Statistics Dept.
    Sacked the person responsible for the Census.
    Announced that “The buck stops here” and resigned as Minister.

    Instead he, like a number of his apologists on this blog said that everything was sweet and that they could still produce accurate results.
    Now, when it is too late to run it again we are seeing that my comments were accurate and that the integrity of all our statistics is at doubt and that even the election organisation will be suspect.
    It isn’t really to late for you Shaw.
    Resign. NOW.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109363944/election-2020-at-risk-of-being-compromised-due-to-census-delays

  15. Observer Tokoroa 15
    16 December 2018 at 2:50 pm

    I value your words Greywarshark

    However, I am not enchanted with the way Murdered Victims are flung from the Court House.

    Victims of Murder go without Lawyers, without Barristers and without Support of any kind. While the Murderer gets the blubber of scheming Lawyers and Precedents.

    Personally, I would put Lawyers and Barristers on traffic offences and keep them out of the way of serious crime.

    For is it not true that the Police and Forensics know what crime has taken place in matters of Murder. They have been on site. Not stuck in chambers.

    All I can see is the Barrister playing cynically with a Corpse. And favouring yet another “nice boy” with a cozy detention of some limited kind.

    Greywarshark, why are NZ men allowed so much support and leeway in their crimes ? Name suppression; Previous crimes suppressed; nil real Punishment. But Comfortable incarceration – if any at all .

    • greywarshark 15.1
      16 December 2018 at 3:29 pm

      You simplify things too much Observer. You no doubt are a very good guy? but even so, you are busy scheming how to get round a case being properly examined in a Court of law under the controlled conditions of it, the conventions of it, and the precedents of the past, all set down to avoid highs and lows in the treatment of crime so all are treated in the same way. The law can be an ass but it is better than the alternative. Also it has been said “Laws grind the poor, and rich men rule the law” Oliver Goldsmith, which seems to be fairly true to the poor, anyway most of the time. However not having law produces conditions that the song Strange Fruit laments.

      We reap what we sow when it comes to murder. You are angry about the murders you hear about, and every one is sad to some extent usually, whether woman or man. But the punishment after being dealt with by the law is usually meted out properly. Your emotion against the law process does not make any woman or man safer after their death.

      If you turned your concern into getting values and respect and self-respect taught in schools, and to parents, and how to be compassionate as well as righteous taught to everybody, crime would be reduced. And the better and more honestly respect is carried out and role-modelled by all adults, then the more good results would follow.

      Billie Holliday sang about something that really happened; a rule by emotion-fired, immoral men posturing as moralistic. I despise that sort of attitude and I hope that you don’t encourage others to think in the way you have expressed; that is the start of a posse, a lynch mob.

      Billie Holiday Lyrics
      “Strange Fruit”
      Southern trees bear a strange fruit
      Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
      Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze
      Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees

      Pastoral scene of the gallant South
      The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
      Scent of magnolias sweet and fresh
      Then the sudden smell of burning flesh

      Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck
      For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
      For the sun to rot, for the tree to drop
      Here is a strange and bitter crop

      Writer(s): LEWIS ALLAN
      https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/billieholiday/strangefruit.html

  16. joe90 16
    16 December 2018 at 3:53 pm

    Hot contender for the stupidest climate denial argument of all time.

    /

    DeFazio on climate: "This is the existential threat to the future of the planet."Insanity.For comparison, the atmosphere Venus is 96.5% CO2 — and the planet is still there.In contrast, Earth's atmosphere is only ~0.04% CO2. https://t.co/SvScU32iZG via @politico— Steve Milloy (@JunkScience) December 15, 2018

    https://twitter.com/JunkScience/status/1073757414770524162

    • greywarshark 16.1
      16 December 2018 at 4:01 pm

      Peter De Fazio? Old white man. Should be very wise at his age. Has been a career politician 1987-2018, over 30 years.

      I’m against having politicians making a career of it. Three terms tops. They can work hard while they are there, and then make room for a new trier. If they don’t work hard they will only get two terms, maybe only one. It should be something to be proud of, serving and being honoured by your fellow citizens – not a gravy train.

      Peter Anthony DeFazio is the U.S. Representative for Oregon’s 4th congressional district, serving since 1987. He is a member of the Democratic Party. The district includes Eugene, Springfield, Roseburg, Coos Bay, Florence, and part of Corvallis. Wikipedia
      Born: 27 May 1947 (age 71 years), Needham, Massachusetts, United States

    • joe90 16.2
      16 December 2018 at 8:05 pm

      It’s fun to laugh at Milloy’s idiocy, and then you realise that he was a science advisor to Trump’s EPA transition team.

      https://thinkprogress.org/trump-epa-air-pollution-cpac-dd95c2fbcd7b/

      https://www.desmogblog.com/steve-milloy

  17. Ed 17
    16 December 2018 at 8:11 pm

    More evidence our capitalist system is overshooting the planet’s environmental limits.

    Now crayfish populations are collapsing.
    We choose capitalism or a liveable planet.
    Sadly the greedy rich want the former.

    “A conservation group is calling for a total fishing ban for crayfish in the Hauraki Gulf and Bay of Plenty as the population “collapses towards extinction”.
    Forest & Bird is calling for the wider Hauraki Gulf to Bay of Plenty crayfishing area (known as CRA2) to be closed for three years to allow the species to start recovering.
    “The wider Hauraki Gulf to Bay of Plenty crayfish population has undergone a significant decline,” Forest & Bird marine conservation advocate Katrina Goddard said.
    “Without an urgent end to fishing pressure, crayfish could become functionally extinct throughout the entire area within a few years.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12177804

  18. Ed 18
    16 December 2018 at 8:25 pm

    John Glaser makes a pertinent observation.

    “US troops now control a third of Syria. They are there on an indefinite basis. I hate to be so annoyingly quaint, but Congress hasn’t authorized this. Permanent war has become normalized. Boring even.”

    https://t.co/pKmYP7Wxbb?amp=1

    • joe90 18.1
      16 December 2018 at 8:35 pm

      So they should withdraw and leave the Kurds and their allies to Assad and Erdogan to do what they will?

      • Ed 18.1.1
        16 December 2018 at 8:49 pm

        The President should ask Congress for authority.
        Otherwise, another illegal war, joe.

        • alwyn 18.1.1.1
          16 December 2018 at 9:10 pm

          The Government, through the Presidencies of Bush, Obama and Trump have all taken action based on a 2001 resolution that allowed them to do almost anything.
          It is argued whether the Syrian situation is covered but it was passed way back in the time just after 9/11 and it was as broad as hell.
          Whether you think it is still valid and covers the present situation depends on your political views.
          I’m sure you remember the old song
          “You say potayto and I say potahto,
          You say tomayto and I say tomahto”
          Well that is about the way the debate on this goes.

  20. Observer Tokoroa 20
    17 December 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Hi Greywarshark

    Thanks for your advice. You are a good man.

    I did actually know in advance that NZ Men do not like being told they should not Murder Women.

    That is why very few men took any notice of the Murder of Grace Millane. She was after all, just a female. Women gathered together in huge numbers. Not men.

    NZ men know that the Lawyers and Barristers will give the male muderer every possible consideration. There is no doubt about that.

    But just for the record, I wish guys like you could say a good word for Women – now and then. Nothing dramatic Greywarshark.

    I mean, there is every possibility that you may have had a woman as a mother.

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