Open Mike 17/03/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 17th, 2018 - 127 comments
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127 comments on “Open Mike 17/03/2018 ”

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  1. james 1
    16 March 2018 at 9:48 pm

    So several sexual assaults become just “a bit of groping”.

    Would you be happy saying that to the victims?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Muttonbird 1.1
      16 March 2018 at 9:49 pm

      I think you need to get some perspective, champ.

    • reason 1.2
      16 March 2018 at 11:09 pm

      We’ve heard you on this site …. James

      And what you have said about sexual abuse victims.

      And it was pretty vile.

      I think you were calling them liars among other things …

      Do you think Labour will try and do a cover-up like the Waikato chiefs one ??

      Where to this day nobody knows the names of the offenders ….

      Actually Labour have been a much better than the grubby lot you were sticking up for ……. eh james ?

      • James 1.2.1
        17 March 2018 at 8:06 am

        Ahhh the oh you said really vile stuff – without linking. Feel free to do so.

        So I think labour will try a cover up? I think they have already started. Heard lots more on Twitter but have not mentioned here (for obvious reasons) but if any of it’s true – it’s not going to be good.

        But typical of some people – I call out someone for calling multiple sexual assaults “a bit of groping” and you attack me. You seem to be quite the apologist

        • reason 1.2.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 10:58 am

          Your a creepy liar James ….. here’s a link …. https://thestandard.org.nz/nz-home-of-rugby-raping-and-beer/ , in this one you keep on insisting a stripper,…. who was the victim of drunken rugby players hitting her , groping her ….and then throwing stones at her … is a hair-dresser….

          You appear / pretend to think it’s dishonest for a person hired as a stripper ….. to do stripping …. should be referred to as a stripper. You make a creepy little dance about it …. Do explain James

          In this link I remember why I liked OAB and Psycho Milt … with some of the best black humor on some sickening behavior …. Despite the seriousness of the subject their posts were appropriate …. unlike yours James .

          Your also a liar and big hypocrite for calling me or Mutton Bird apologists …

          Muttonbird justt like myself ….. would be all for ANY offender being appropriatly chargfed , prosecuted and named … Unlike you James

          But only If that is what the victims wanted …. many do not pursue this path ….. given our rape culture police, which National actively starved of funds…. and had no will to fix , …. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10434242

          And the additional assault or rape they get in the appalling treatment and low conviction rates our court system delivers to sexual assult victims …. Judith Collin s refused to even look at fixing this when minister…. using fake stats and serco box ticking is more her style https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/kzqxp3/a-tiny-minority-of-nz-rape-cases-make-it-to-court-do-we-have-a-problem

          Anyway James … your the rape apologist …. and have all the concern of a troll out to score political points.

          The Waikiato rugby chiefs pulled a white wash and cover up ….

          Do you now think the guilty players should be named and face repercussions ???

          As MuttonBird and myself do for the drunk fuckwit who engaged in the assaults at Labours camp.

          Prove to us your not a sleazy opportunist James.

          Apologize for your Chiefs posts …. and call for their cover-up to end.

          • adam 1.2.1.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 4:35 pm

            Not sure I wanted to be reminded of that ugly post about the Waikato rugby chiefs, reason, but well done, and well said, pointing out the political opportunism and the lies of james.

            The victims come first. They always should. I said when this started, we should all shut up, (well us men anyway) and let the victims speak for themselves – if they want to, if they want to say nothing, that’s fine too.

            Insted it became somewhat of a partisan knife fight at the victims expense. With some who have been in deep down in the gutter, trying to get some moral high ground at the expense of people who need us to back off, and let them make the choices they want to make.

            Enough from me, I’m for giving the people involved some space to get this sorted, properly.

            • reason 1.2.1.1.1.1
              18 March 2018 at 9:36 am

              Thanks Adam and good on you for your excellent attitude and actions ..

              Your post put the focus back on where it should be …

              Your a very good example to other men.

              Showing Real men are respectful to women…. not domineering.

              And it should never be a ‘left versus ‘right’ issue …

          • Pete 1.2.1.1.2
            17 March 2018 at 7:21 pm

            Is there anything in this link which reveals something of what’s behind the ‘cover-up’? I realise the article in the link was published nine days after The Standard story.

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11711414

            https://thestandard.org.nz/nz-home-of-rugby-raping-and-beer/

            • reason 1.2.1.1.2.1
              18 March 2018 at 10:02 am

              Thanks for wasting my time on that Herald pile of crap Pete …

              It reads like a Herald dirty politics hit piece ( right time frame ),… . and is a long winded one eyed version of “she’s a liar”.

              Which was the chiefs initial response … which the Herald left out of their pro rugby defense …. like a shitload of other damaging information unfavorable to the chiefs cover-up … all left out.

              Imagine how low our arrest rates would be …. If criminals got to investigate themselves. Pete.

              And for good PR the criminals got to ‘Leak’ their self investigation to an active supporter in the media … and its reported as truth.

              Besides, the Herald snow job runs counter to my rugby source / information … which informed me ….that protecting the all black ‘brand’ ( corporate multi million sponsorship), was behind the Waikato chiefs coverup.

              <<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

              But this site has been through this shit before … and just Like Roastbuster or Clint Rickards …. it brings out the worst in some men.

              Mansplaining with the bias of defense lawyers…. bringing the friendly NZ ambiance … of rape culture.

              Leave it alone Pete …

              “As for NZ Rugby wanting the truth? If they had, they would have spoken to BOTH women who made allegations against the Chiefs, and wouldn’t have had their pet in-house lawyer run the investigation.

              By any objective measure, this whole thing stinks, and only the people who desperately, desperately don’t want to confront the reality of violence against women cry otherwise.” -Stephanie Rodgers https://thestandard.org.nz/nz-home-of-rugby-raping-and-beer/

              • Pete …
                18 March 2018 at 9:47 pm

                If you do see this …

                Talking to independent people who were there and watching video footage was a stupid thing to do. It’s far better to get the truth by making it up. Or building it on the base of stuff other people have made up.

                My interest in the upshot of this business came when I quite randomly ended up talking to someone, nothing to do with the rugby establishment, who was there. The way the topic arose was completely incidental and accidental. Of course your rugby source / information … which informed you, could clearly describe what happened from direct observation. In contrast to my source who could clearly describe what happened from direct observation.

                I sense your level of being incensed with the call to ‘leave it alone.’ It reminds me of the sense of bewilderment and annoyance of an eye-witness who has seen deliberate grabbing of the wrong ends of sticks to continue untruths because it suits some purpose.

                • reason …
                  23 March 2018 at 4:54 pm

                  You should have written the non-independent report referring to unreleased video …,. for that is what you are actually describing.

                  Your descriptive powers are about as good as your ones to sense things… maybe you project ?.

                  For I’m not incensed by your wanting to re-argue a unsavory topic Pete ..

                  Or by you calling me or my friends liars …. I believe them … and your a nobody to me.

                  But I do think it’s posters like you and your ‘attitudes’ which lower female participation on internet sites …

                  Nothing you have written explains the chiefs coverup …. where everyone was forced to apologize … and the ones doing the assaulting were never named.

        • Tracey 1.2.1.2
          17 March 2018 at 10:59 am

          Can you point to your posts calling for Key to resign for assaulting a woman including after she made it clear it was unwanted?

    • The Fairy Godmother 1.3
      17 March 2018 at 10:36 am

      I think James has become much more aware now we have a change of government and his friend the Ponty tail puller is no longer PM. Shades of Bill Clinton and the way the partisan media hammered him but just dont seem to care about the horrific acts of abuse committed by their hero Trump. James you should take a deep breath and stop listening to talk back or whale oil. Listen to the movie “the brainwashing of my Dad” if you want to understand what has happened to you.

  2. Monty 2
    17 March 2018 at 12:25 am

    You make no sense. Stop drinking or doing drugs.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  3. Ed 3
    17 March 2018 at 7:28 am

    Stuart, how are you getting on with that booking to Riga?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  4. James 4
    17 March 2018 at 8:08 am

    No it’s just an obvious and recent one that I remembered that shows what a two faced person you are.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  5. James 5
    17 March 2018 at 8:09 am

    And yet you run around doing the opposite all the time.

    Hypocrisy at its finest.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [just spending time going through and shifting your trolling out of a thread into OM. I was going to give you a warning, but you’ve been warned before and there are far too many comments like this for me to have to be dealing with on a Saturday morning, and this is a clear pattern of behaviour from you over time, so here’s a one week ban. I suggest you have a serious think about how you want to be here when you get back, as next time the ban will be a much longer one. You need to get that this place doesn’t exist for your trolling or taking pot shots at commenters you don’t like. Stop winding people up and go back to the politics. Whether you get a warning before a long ban next time will depend on how you acknowledge this note and your pattern of behaviour when you return. – weka]

  6. Ed 6
    17 March 2018 at 8:13 am

    Pot.
    Kettle.
    Black.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [you are also getting a ban. As with James I was going to give a warning first, but the amount of time I’ve just had to spend sifting through comments to more your trolling and see the patterns of behaviour is way too much. You have a 1 week ban recently, so this one is a two week ban. See how that works? You’ve been complaining about people hassling your, but as far as I can see today you are the one also doing the hassling. Stop winding people up, focus on the politics. Also, stop with the spamming videos, you’ve been warned about this multiple times before. As with James’ mod note, whether you get a warning next time before a longer ban will depend on how you respond to this one and what your behaviour is like when you return. As always, demands on moderator time are a big factor too – weka]

  7. savenz 7
    17 March 2018 at 8:20 am

    Not too good on the figures at treasury

    Treasury poverty estimate out by 24,000 children
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1803/S00091/treasury-poverty-estimate-out-by-24000-children.htm

    • Ad 7.1
      17 March 2018 at 8:41 am

      Robertson is going to get smashed in the House for this.

      And again at budget in May.

      • james 7.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 9:10 am

        In fairness – I do not believe that this is Labours fault – and the figures were wrong for National as well.

        So much to beat up labour with at the moment – they dont need to use this.

        • savenz 7.1.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 10:36 am

          Time to relook at the idiots of treasury.

          Sign of the times, B level economists, hiring C level economists and probably the work done by legions of work experience students or interns for next to nothing.

          If your government economists can’t add, something is wrong.

          The average person knows that it is increasingly propaganda out of government and the conclusions are often fictional or flawed.

          Whoever deemed 1 hour of work means you are employed as a statistic, is clearly either a fool or a right wing apologist. And neither should be employed by government and used to create policy.

          • alwyn 7.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 10:58 am

            I haven’t really looked at this but I thought they were blaming this on an error in the coding of a computer program.
            If that is the case we should blame it on the programmer rather than just pin it on Economists.

            • andrew murray 7.1.1.1.1.1
              17 March 2018 at 12:15 pm

              Well, that’s not entirely true… it suggests a rudimentary lack of awareness that a >25% error is not immediately noticed by those preparing the report.

              • savenz …
                17 March 2018 at 12:44 pm

                A succession of errors… modern times we just shrug it off ….. accidents happen. That’s why we have poverty, fake stats, Pike river, and overseas we have Trump and new bridges falling down ( we have had our own CTV building), or May and the Grenfell towers.

                Sadly people who allow gross mistakes to happen under their watch also effect a lot of people through bad policy which is why I think those in those positions should not get away with blaming it on the IT guy.

                If the IT guys now the provider of treasury policy including all the checks of accuracy of reports, maybe they should get a pay rise.

  8. savenz 8
    17 March 2018 at 8:24 am

    Also police need to check our laws about privacy… Nicky Hager, stopping conference members, isn’t there enough crimes out there to solve without illegally using the law for political purposes or invading the privacy of people who have not committed any crimes.

    Complaint about the Police use of vehicle checkpoint

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1803/S00224/complaint-about-the-police-use-of-vehicle-checkpoint.htm

    • gsays 8.1
      17 March 2018 at 9:14 am

      This has stuck in my craw for a while.
      I am not a fan of euthanasia.
      Police were wrong in their action setting up a checkpoint, then the claim of concern for the welfare of citizens reeks of spin.

      Then, to top it all off, to hear a police spokesperson claim to be keeping citizens safe, in the wake of further deaths following a police pursuit, stinks.

  9. Pat 9
    17 March 2018 at 8:47 am

    There was a post on productivity the other day that bemoaned our (NZ) lack of progress. This problem is widespread and not confined to NZ.

    https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/why-is-productivity-growth-so-low-23-economic-experts-weigh-in

    While acknowledging a range of causes the following article suggests one factor that may be significant….motivation, or the lack of….something our very own recent government promoted as an issue (while ignoring the likely cause)…and goes some way to explaining an apparent lack of pride in that which is done (construction industry anyone?) or expressed differently…poor quality, both of decision and action.

    With advances in technology and automation the fact remains that people are still a major productivity factor, indeed the key one…..is it surprising then that’ hope’ may play a key role?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/16/death-retirement-striking-lecturers-pensions

    “The final option is neglect. If you don’t think there is the possibility of retiring in the future, some workers ask, then why put any effort into working now? Opting for neglect is quite simply – you go to work, switch on the computer and then spend your days doing things that any retired person would do: read the newspaper, fill in the crossword, chat with acquaintances over coffee and biscuits. This kind of “empty labour” is increasingly common in many organisations. As the prospect of a real retirement begins to fade, it is likely unofficial semi-retirements will become more popular. If this happens, workplaces will become like clandestine retirement villages for the working young.”

  10. james 10
    17 March 2018 at 9:00 am

    So question for the “Innocent until proven guilty” types.

    Ed looking at you since you raised it.

    With the #MeToo program there have been a lot of people named as having been the perpetrator of sexual assaults.

    In almost all cases – They were named and shamed BEFORE being proven guilty (and many have not been found guilty since).

    Do you think that the #MeToo campaign should be closed down? or perhaps rules in place to not name people until they are proven innocent?

    Why is it OK in one situation and not the other?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Ed 10.1
      17 March 2018 at 9:02 am

      James. I made a mistake. I replied to you.
      I refuse to debate with you with the track record you have.

      • james 10.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 9:03 am

        Oh the allegations of me making huge racist statements that you have refused to link to every time I have asked.

        Its an easy cop out (if a dishonest one) every time you get a question you cannot answer to….

        Just because people say things that you disagree with and find repugnant (like you wanting to shut down funding to Heart kids and alzheimer’s society) – dosnt mean you cannot have a discussion.

        • alwyn 10.1.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 2:00 pm

          @James.
          You shouldn’t feel that you are being picked out by Ed.
          He never answers anyone who queries the source of his claims.
          Mostly, I suspect, because the only source of the things he says is his somewhat over-excited imagination.
          I’ve never had a response to any of the questions I ask him either.

  11. Ed 11
    17 March 2018 at 9:06 am

    I am saying there is another narrative and presenting them.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • francesca 11.1
      17 March 2018 at 9:21 am

      But these bozos have “common sense”
      They’re armed with all the unthinking predigested unchallenged talking points of the corporate media which always, apart from the fig leaf of a very few “dissenters” backs up the foreign policy agendas of the powerful.Indistinguishable from the agendas of the huge moneyed interests of the world
      Honestly Ed, I’ve wasted too much time engaging with them.
      But keep putting out those links

      • Ed 11.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 9:24 am

        Thank you for your support. I have vowed to myself not to respond to the right wing trolls who frequent this site. Similarly, I waste too much time on them.

        In New Zealand, it is hard to find the other narrative to the neoconservative story.

        All the media, including RNZ, are running the British and American lines without any critical thinking.

        We need a better media……..

        • james 11.1.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 9:51 am

          ” I have vowed to myself not to respond to the right wing trolls who frequent this site.”

          Because they put forward arguments I cannot answer – or ask for citations I cannot provide.

          Finished it for you.

        • Psycho Milt 11.1.1.2
          17 March 2018 at 11:01 am

          In New Zealand, it is hard to find the other narrative to the neoconservative story.

          And yet you’re in New Zealand but somehow manage to bombard The Standard with cut-n-paste after cut-n-paste of these “other narratives,” which are in fact as easy to find by anyone else in New Zealand as they are for you.

    • Stuart Munro 11.2
      17 March 2018 at 11:04 am

      And your narrative is on the whole less factual than Dr Seuss.

  12. AsleepWhileWalking 12
    17 March 2018 at 9:47 am

    “I’d actually rip their throats out for doing that, if it was my kid, I really would” – Judith Collins commenting re Labour camp sex assult vics and what she would co if it were her child.

    If only she gave half a shit as justice minister when she could have brought fairness for sex victims in the court system.

    I guess only blood relations count.

    • james 12.1
      17 March 2018 at 9:54 am

      You missed part of her quote (surprise).

      But regardless – do you not think Labour should be held to account for the way they handled all this?

      • savenz 12.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 10:19 am

        Personally feel the Labour conference issues totally blown out of proportion, far worse things going on, this is a distraction. Find the offender and give them whatever is the appropriate sentence and clearly future conferences should not be turned into frat parties!

      • Cinny 12.1.2
        17 March 2018 at 12:21 pm

        Jeepers james, there are many many people that need to be held to account for their actions, law firms as well. One night I woke up with my boyfriends mates head between my legs, never said a word about it.
        So much is unsaid. Big picture is… people find it so hard to come forward, want to get political.. at least those at the youth camp had the confidence and felt they were in an environment where they could say something, without being told they were making it up etc.

        Don’t make this a pissing contest about who said what, or who as changed their mind after thinking about it, or upon being presented more or different information. All of that completely misses the point.

        It’s a beautiful day out there.

        • tracey 12.1.2.1
          17 March 2018 at 12:26 pm

          This^^^^^

          No pissing contest about lying commander, key and brownlee, collins multiple abuses of power, bennetts injunction… sabins suppression…

    • Carolyn_Nth 12.2
      17 March 2018 at 10:54 am

      I don’t know that the blood rels even count. It’s all about Judith and her showing how strong and decisive she is, with little sensitivity to the survivors or how they want the situation to be managed.

      And it was Collins who resisted law changes to make it less stressful for alleged rape and sexual assault survivors.

      Back around 2012, Collins inherited well formulated proposals Simon Power had been working on. The proposals aimed at changing the system from more combative, stressful trials (focused on a contest between survivor and alleged perp) to an inquisitorial system in which a judge follows the evidence.

      In Sept 2012, NZ Herald reported:

      A proposal to get rid of jurors for sensitive court cases involving children or victims of sexual assault has been shelved by Justice Minister Judith Collins.

      The minister said she had no interest in progressing her predecessor Simon Power’s plan to introduce an inquisitorial system in New Zealand.

      Mr Power, a more liberal member of the National Party caucus, had been interested in an alternative trials process and visited courts in Europe to investigate a system in which judges were able to interview victims of sexual crimes, get assistance from specially trained jurors, or come to a verdict without a jury.

      The inquisitorial model was designed to protect victims or children from the pressure and stress of appearing in the courtroom.

      Collins also refused to implement recommendations by the Law Commission to improve the way sexual offense trials be conducted.

      The recommendations include that judges, prosecution and defence lawyers and jurors involved in sexual offence cases undergo specialist training, and for sexual offence cases to be heard more quickly. Some of the other recommendations draw on models from inquisitorial systems.

      • Tracey 12.2.1
        17 March 2018 at 11:04 am

        It is why I believe Power had to go. He seemed to want genuine cross party work on this stuff…

        No resignation

        Commander of Defence force admits lie

        No resignation

        Bennett deliberately breaches Privacy Act

        No resignation

        Collins conflict of interest, fudges police stats, leaks info leading to man getting death threats

        No resignation

        Brownlee gives Fletchers immunity and fucks up EQC

        No resignation

        Turei reveals lied to winz 20 years ago etc etc

        Resigns and gone from parliament

        • alwyn 12.2.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 2:10 pm

          Turei did not of course, as you imply, resign from Parliament.
          She stayed there until the people of the electorate in which she stood had more sense than to choose her to remain in Parliament after the 2017 General Election.
          She also kept collecting her very generous pay for another 3 months after the election.
          Turei did nothing differently to Collins.

          Turei resigned as co-leader of the Green Party.
          Collins resigned from Cabinet.
          Turei did NOT resign from Parliament.
          Collins did NOT resign from Parliament.

          The only people who did things differently were the voters.
          The voters chose to return Collins to Parliament.
          The voters chose NOT to return Turei to Parliament

          • Incognito 12.2.1.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 7:56 pm

            Good evening, Alwyn. A fine comment except for this bit:

            The voters chose NOT to return Turei to Parliament

            Metiria Turei resigned from the Green Party list on 9 August 2017 and decided to campaign for the party vote only in Te Tai Tonga. [my bold]

            Given the short time to muster an effective campaign Metiria Turei actually did remarkably well. She got 5,740 votes while the Green Party only got 1,963 votes (which was much less than in the previous election in 2014 when it got 3,402 votes). During that short period leading up to the election the polls were not favouring the Green Party and it looked like they were going to disappear from Parliament altogether. So, in my view, a remarkable result for Metiria Turei.

            • alwyn 12.2.1.1.1.1
              17 March 2018 at 10:44 pm

              It might be remarkable vote she got but it has not the slightest effect on what I said. Your claim is also wrong. She did not campaign only for the party vote. She campaigned for the electorate MP vote as well. Otherwise she couldn’t have got any votes at all could she? Have a look at the Electorate Candidate Votes in the Electorate.
              https://www.parliament.nz/en/mps-and-electorates/electorate-profiles/electorate-profiles-data/document/DBHOH_Lib_EP_Te_Tai_Tonga_Electoral_Profile/te-tai-tonga-electoral-profile

              She did not WIN.
              Now what is there in the statement you appear to be objecting to that is wrong?
              “The voters chose NOT to return Turei to Parliament”.
              An absolutely accurate statement isn’t it?

              There were a lot of candidates who chose not to go on the list for their party. All the Labour candidates in the Maori electorates except for Davis stood only for their electorate positions and they all won.
              Including, of course, Rino Tirikatene who thrashed Meteria.

              Collins on the other hand did win and is still in Parliament.

              • Incognito …
                17 March 2018 at 11:52 pm

                It might be remarkable vote she got but it has not the slightest effect on what I think.

                FIFY

                Your claim is also wrong. She did not campaign only for the party vote. She campaigned for the electorate MP vote as well. Otherwise she couldn’t have got any votes at all could she? [my bolds]

                So close, yet so far. Indeed, without standing she could not have got any votes; she was aiming for party votes but got more candidate votes. This does not make my claim wrong, which was in fact not a ‘claim’ but what she had said.

                She did not WIN.

                Winning vs losing; simplistic and false dichotomy given that she did not intend to come back to Parliament. I don’t see Metiria Turei as a “loser” but you seem to see it differently: not winning is losing.

                Since you appear to completely ignore the context all the other stuff you mentioned about Labour candidates is simply false equivalence to suit your biased opinion. The key point of my comment was to highlight your bias but it went ‘whoosh’; I gave you more credit than you deserve it seems …

                Collins who? See, that’s my bias 😉

                • alwyn …
                  18 March 2018 at 11:17 am

                  Really?
                  You claim that she did not campaign for the candidate vote?
                  Your statement was
                  “Metiria Turei resigned from the Green Party list on 9 August 2017 and decided to campaign for the party vote only in Te Tai Tonga”
                  She may have said things like that in previous elections, when she knew she was going to get in on the list but it was NOT what she said in 2017, when winning the electorate was he only way back to the trough. She even said in fact that this time (2017) she wanted to be elected to represent the electorate and that aim was new.

                  What she did say was
                  ‘“The Green Party wants the party vote, and if you think that I’m your best representative, then give me your electorate vote as well,” said Turei, “That is a new message from me at this election and hasn’t been heard before.
                  “I’m really excited about our campaign. There’s only 20 points in it – if you actually look at it seriously – between the three candidates and I think that in a month anything is possible.”’

                  That was clearly a request for, and a campaign for, the electorate seat. Sure, she also asked for the Party vote for the Green Party but she wanted the candidate vote for herself.
                  To claim anything else is delusional.
                  http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/regional/tirikatene-accuses-turei-opportunistic-run-te-tai-tonga

                  • Incognito …
                    18 March 2018 at 11:59 am

                    @ 17:27 https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/336828/how-it-happened-turei-resigns-as-green-co-leader

                    I cannot tell whether she really wanted to get back in Parliament or was campaigning hard for the Green Party vote in the electorate; during election campaigns you do what’s necessary to get the votes you’re targeting. If you think that’s “delusional” I’m fine with that. It still changes nothing about your obvious bias but I’ve come to accept that as well 😉

                    • alwyn …
                      18 March 2018 at 1:41 pm

                      Yeah, well I think a direct quote from her at an election debate in September is rather better evidence of her real intentions than a single line, not actually attributed to her, on the day she had to step down as party leader.
                      It was also before she probably realised that she was going to be out in the cold without a job and without a very generous salary within five months.
                      That was the day that she was about to be blown up on air by John Campbell who apparently had statements from her child’s father’s family about all the support that had provided.
                      She was going to be shown up not only as a person guilty of fraud but as a liar who was only too happy to smear her “in-laws” reputation all over the media.
                      Not surprising is it that she was desperately looking for cover and looking for a way to persuade Campbell not to air the truth?

                      If by “bias” you mean that I thought she was a rat-bag you would be right.
                      If by “bias” you mean that I prefer that my politicians are honest you would be right.
                      If by “bias” you mean that I tend to vote for parties that display competence you are right.
                      If by “bias” you mean I prefer politicians who work for New Zealand rather than their own baubles you are right.

                      On the other hand if by “bias” you mean that I will vote unthinkingly for, or against, a particular political party you are totally wrong.

                  • Incognito …
                    18 March 2018 at 10:09 pm

                    Some fair comments, Alwyn.

                    Personally, I doubt that Metiria Turei thought, even for one moment, that she could win that electorate. I also think that she said what she had to say to campaign hard for the Green Party vote (which was rather unsuccessful I should add).

                    You seem to think that bias only manifest in specifics. But this is the insidious danger of bias: it clouds one’s opinion, expectations, (emotional) reactions, and thinking. The specific examples you list are just the tip of the iceberg; the danger is underneath the surface and out of (your) sight. One more thing, bias is notoriously hard to detect, in oneself.

      • alwyn 12.2.2
        17 March 2018 at 11:07 am

        I don’t know about the rest of the recommendations but I think any prospective juror would welcome getting rid of juries.
        I was on one once in a case against someone accused of being a paedophile.
        It was a bloody terrible experience being a juror and having to listen to all the evidence.
        The only pleasant bit was at the end where we were told we wouldn’t be called again for jury service for 5 years.

        • tracey 12.2.2.1
          17 March 2018 at 11:09 am

          Imagine how victims feel and they get put through the wringer for months or years prior to the trial

          • alwyn 12.2.2.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 11:14 am

            Yes, I did, although in this case it was a little boy of about 4.
            He was treated about as well as he could have been with any questions going through the judge.

            • tracey 12.2.2.1.1.1
              17 March 2018 at 1:57 pm

              Imagine if there were ways to stop people from commiting crimes against children, or protecting more than we do. Oh that is right there are but the right, and some on the left like the fist on the table lock em up and throw away the key BS, cos that makes the wealthy and wannabe wealthy feel all confy and cosy.

              I know an organisation that deals with paedophiles referred from Court, usually as a condition of release. This organisation has 92% of its clients NOT sexually reoffending. They also take self referrals ( yes it is a thing). We are resourcing this org really well, paying their staff really well and replicating what they do everywhere, right. Wrong.

    • Tracey 12.3
      17 March 2018 at 11:06 am

      She was very quiet on the predatory behaviour of her friend Slater toward young female Nats.

      Of course Labour needed to sort this out better but the smug self righteousness of Nat supporters would be laughable if it werent so dangerous

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 12.3.1
        17 March 2018 at 11:32 am

        The smug self righteousness is a direct response to the lecturing and harangued tones the left take towards the right for, in the light of what’s come out, less offensive behaviour than the criticism has warranted.

        The smugness is schadenfreude.

  13. savenz 13
    17 March 2018 at 11:03 am

    Another sign of the times – even if you are found guilty of exploiting migrant workers the penalties are puny and you are only stopped from sponsoring foreigners for work visas for periods of between six months and two years!

    Only a few months and you can reoffend and exploit someone else! These are not high skilled jobs and completely unnecessary for the economy, the government is complicit in the scams by not closing it down!

    Surely it should be a life ban for gods sake and a $100,000 fine! Why would you stop underpaying workers if your fine is $40k for multiple discovered breaches over years, especially as the migrant workers unions are reporting wide spread schemes of employers demanding untraceable money from their ‘workers’.

    It’s about time that these visas for jobs are stopped. If students want to come to NZ to study great, – but have it transparent and no fake jobs at the end of it!

    Restaurant chain exploited, underpaid workers for years
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/352684/restaurant-chain-exploited-underpaid-workers-for-years

    Exploitation of Indian students: Money ‘can’t be tracked or traced’
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/351335/exploitation-of-indian-students-money-can-t-be-tracked-or-traced

    • tracey 13.1
      17 March 2018 at 11:10 am

      Must keep. Wages. Low.

      • savenz 13.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 11:36 am

        We have Kiwi students with huge debts who can’t get any part time work anymore, cafes, burger/ restaurants, petrol stations, supermarkets all used to employ Kiwis student workers, part time workers like parents and I don’t remember widespread employment breaches and Kiwis being asked to pay for the job! There are plenty of local Indian students these restaurants can employ if they want to discriminate.

        Before government says we get $500 million from overseas students coming here, then calculate the costs because that money is spent in NZ on rent, cars, petrol and food and possibly a bit of travel thrown in. Then it seems like health, roads, infrastructure and subsidised wages and employment inspectors and legal action are paid for by tax payers. All while our NZ workers are unemployed and getting into debt and the tax payers are subsidising that too.

        Foreign students should just come here for study only. No working visas so the fake jobs become defunct.

        Clearly the fake jobs for grads schemes needs to stop! It’s out and out exploitation and the students are being lured here by false pretences to be exploited.

        The government does not seem to care about it, because they like the idea of the $500 million coming in, even if in real terms it costs the country triple that in problems, contributes to unemployment and low wages and is based on lies to the students by their agents and NZ resident employers.

        • Incognito 13.1.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 11:47 am

          Where do you get that figure of $500 million from? Do you have a link?

          • savenz 13.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 12:57 pm

            @Incognito – that was the figure touted in this article. Personally think like treasury figures can you believe them?
            http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/344230/english-schools-fear-loss-of-work-visas-for-students

            If a person can barely survive and being forced at $2 p/h and living in overcrowded rooms while studying are they really bringing in all this cash. Now the concerned groups are also concerned about them being forced into crime.

            Struggling Indian students ‘getting into drug addiction, gambling’
            http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/313070/struggling-indian-students-turn-to-crime,-leaders-warn

            It is completely normal to provide proof of income by just borrowing the money or just getting a short term bank loan. Then all these people are coming to NZ penniless after paying their ‘tertiary fees’ only to find that jobs are scarce here and exploitation rife.

            At least the government need to update their pathetic checks on whose coming and can they support themselves because a short term loan is not income or money!

            • savenz 13.1.1.1.1.1
              17 March 2018 at 1:12 pm

              In my view there is a market for legitimate overseas student study in NZ in particular from Chinese with high quality NZ courses!

              Where overseas students can actually learn English and also the western way of business (or whatever the course is) and where the Chinese students get looked after properly, learn about western life and business and learn excellent English. It is very difficult to get into Chinese universities for example and so parents (I think) would gladly pay for quality!

              Why does NZ always go for the scams and not the quality! We don’t need to give away job visas and fake jobs, the students will come IF NZ works on quality courses, genuine hospitality and getting quality applicants.

              They are NOT going to come if NZ gets a reputation for fake courses and fake degrees and exploitation and bums on seats, which is where we are going at the moment.

              Soon even the Kiwis will have to leave home and do another degree overseas so they have a quality qualification because quality is not the objective in tertiary any more.

              There are too many NZ degrees and diplomas that are crap, or are passing crap students who go into the work force and are crap with a NZ qualification.

            • Incognito 13.1.1.1.1.2
              17 March 2018 at 7:21 pm

              Thanks. The reason I asked was because I read this (much more) recent article: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/101655182/large-loss-to-international-student-economy-looms-under-govt-immigration-plans

              MBIE’s report said having 10,000 fewer international students would mean $70m lost revenue from tuition fees and an estimated economic impact of $261m per year – assuming changes to work rights are successfully targeted at the “lower-value” tertiary sector. International enrolments at private tertiary colleges dropped by about 10,000 after English-language requirements were tightened in 2015 and 2017.

              I would favour regulations to limit any full-time enrolled student working to max. 500 hour per year, i.e. roughly 10 hours per week. You’d have to ask whether any more than that would be detrimental to full-time study.

          • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1.1.2
            17 March 2018 at 2:51 pm

            Yes, I think savenz would have been better off just saying money coming in. At least then they wouldn’t have had the appearance of pulling figures out of their arse.

            They do have a point in that the costs may actually be greater than the money brought in.

            • veutoviper 13.1.1.1.2.1
              17 March 2018 at 3:38 pm

              To be fair DTB, savenz has provided a link at 13.1.1.1.1 to a RNZ article dated 20 November 2017 by John Gerritsen , their Education Correspondent, quoting a figure of $500 million.

              http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/344230/english-schools-fear-loss-of-work-visas-for-students

              However, in 13.1.1 savenz quotes this figure in this context: Before government says we get $500 million from overseas students coming here, …”

              The actual article quotes this figure as coming from Wayne Dyer, chairperson of English New Zealand, “the peak body for language schools” – not the government per se. My Dyer is also quoted as saying that this figure was provided by Infometrics.
              ie
              ” The schools have warned that cutting work rights for their students would kill enrolments from some countries overnight and damage an industry worth $500 million a year.

              The chairperson of English New Zealand, the peak body for language schools, Wayne Dyer, said the Labour Party policy was aimed at stopping fraud and exploitation mostly involving Indian students enrolled in business courses.

              “The English language sector is a completely different sector from the PTE [private training establishment] sector. The students are different, their reasons for coming are different. The level of risk associated with the schools is very, very low. NZQA and Immigration New Zealand don’t see language schools as a risk at all,” he said

              …

              Mr Dyer said Infometrics had calculated that language students contributed about $500 million to the economy and their general spending was about 10 times higher than the amounts they paid in tuition fees.”

              While I am somewhat sceptical about some of savenz’s claims etc in their many comments over many subjects, on this occasion this figure was definitely not, or appearing to be, “pulled from their arse” as you so indelicately put it.

              least then they wouldn’t have had the appearance of pulling figures out of their arse.

              • veutoviper …
                17 March 2018 at 4:52 pm

                Last line starting with “least” should have been deleted, but too late for edit.

        • Grafton Gully 13.1.1.2
          17 March 2018 at 6:07 pm

          Fertile young people hungry for success replace grey haired rentiers and superannuitants.

      • Cinny 13.1.2
        17 March 2018 at 12:25 pm

        Easy to do with immigrant workers here for the apple season, shove them all into a house, charge the earth, jam as many workers as you can into that house, and offset it against their wages. $$$$$$$$$$$ They won’t complain. It’s totally normal around these parts.

        • tracey 13.1.2.1
          17 March 2018 at 12:36 pm

          Yes. Like the recent story of the chinese builders being required… at 2/3 of the wage offered to kiwis.

          • savenz 13.1.2.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 12:51 pm

            I pretty sure the illegal Malaysians just got busted because their wages were too high and their illegal workers didn’t feel exploited on $20 – $40 p/h. Oh also they had a muslim wife.

            I mean $2 p/h and paying $20k each year for the job is the going rate for a semi legitimate job permit! No undercutting!

          • savenz 13.1.2.1.2
            17 March 2018 at 1:03 pm

            A Chinese person was saying, they just get people in China ‘from the country’ and give them a quick training session and then have them in gangs on the building sites.

            Then we wonder why building costs so much, takes so long and needs so much remedial work.

  14. JohnSelway 14
    17 March 2018 at 11:34 am

    Pharmacies to start selling magic – what could possibly go wrong?

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/03/08/95148/new-code-of-ethics-makes-way-for-homeopathy

    • One Two 14.1
      17 March 2018 at 4:20 pm

      Pharmacies sell toxic poisons which kill and injure millions of human beings annually around the world…

      Many substances which have no credible evidence whosoever, outside of the death toll, and cleaning agents…

      Selling “magic’ would be an improvment…

      That pharmacies are jumping on board signals the end of the chemical toxins, because revenue streams are required as replacement…

      Australia passed the same recently, despite The Greens and De Natale voting against alternative theparies…

      4-9 years and chemical pharma is finished…

      That is what your link indicates…

      • JohnSelway 14.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 4:24 pm

        Uh-huh – apart from the fact those “toxic” substances keep millions of people alive and healthy and homeopathic is tap water

        • One Two 14.1.1.1
          17 March 2018 at 6:05 pm

          Alive and healthy are not necessarily at the same time as a result of lab produced chemical toxins…

          Alive and living are not necessarily the same thing…

          And you seem to be oblivious to the placebo effect…

          Alternative therapies are ancient, they are present, and they will remain in the future…

          Pharma industry are reacting to save their existence…

          So very predictable was the rejection of injected and ingested chemicals…

          It’s hitting mainstream and can’t be halted…

          You must be freaking out…

          • JohnSelway 14.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2018 at 6:10 pm

            Homeopathy isn’t alternative therapy – it’s horseshit.

            But fine – you can throw your health in with magic. I think I’ll relay on proven medical science

          • stunned mullet 14.1.1.1.2
            17 March 2018 at 7:59 pm

            😆 next you’ll be extolling the virtues of chiropractic.

          • Psycho Milt 14.1.1.1.3
            17 March 2018 at 8:46 pm

            Homeopathic “medicine” also consists of ingested chemicals…

            You must be freaking out…

  15. UncookedSelachimorpha 15
    17 March 2018 at 12:02 pm

    Excellent opinion piece from Bernie Sanders on the Grauniad today, on the rise of Oligarchy.

    Our NZ government is a mile from thinking about or discussing this topic – even though the power of the super rich and gross inequality completely dominates New Zealand’s political, social and economic life.

    • tracey 15.1
      17 March 2018 at 12:07 pm

      Thanks for the link. He raises great questions that shall never reach the right ears because so much of our media is for profit…

  16. tracey 16
    17 March 2018 at 12:21 pm

    Heard a story today. A woman with cerebral palsy has been planning to walk up mt maunganui for her birthday. Has received some local coverage.

    She was at the start of her walk and a guy in slacks, with some camera people appeared with some walking shoes and announced he was here to walk with her if that was okay with her. She said it was not. That the day was about her.

    The guy was Simon Bridges.

    • Cinny 16.1
      17 March 2018 at 12:26 pm

      Lmao. That’s epic as, just because she has a disability doesn’t make her stupid.
      May she have an incredible day and a fantastic journey up the Mt.

      • tracey 16.1.1
        17 March 2018 at 12:35 pm

        And shows the Nats are not opposing, they are campaigning. Their record on disability, like many before them, was appalling.

  17. weka 17
    17 March 2018 at 2:15 pm

    Chloe Swarbrick is running a series of twitter conversations about democracy in NZ.

    https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick

    https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/974801110215962624

    https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/974811877808025600

    (easier to follow with a twitter account I think, you can set up a dummy one that will make the tweets easier to read, you don’t have to actually tweet anything).

    • veutoviper 17.1
      17 March 2018 at 2:57 pm

      I don’t actually have a Twitter account but read many Twitter accounts often daily.

      By not having an account, you don’t have to follow an account to read it – and cannnot be unfollowed/banned.

      I am not sure what the timelines etc look like when you have an account, but you can read the threads behind individual comments by clicking on the date or time on the same line as the name of the commenter. This brings up the thread.

      For example Chloe has just retweeted your reply to her which, using your first link to her full Twitter account, shows

      weka @wekatweets ……….6 min. If you click the 6 min it brings up the thread.

      The two other links bring up the threads despite my not having an account.

      The only problem I have ever encountered is that some time ago I had problems bringing up some but not all “Tweets and replies” on my PC which only brought up Tweets. But no problems on my Ipad with Tweets and Replies because the Ipad gets the Mobile version of the account.

      So if I want to see the Tweets and Replies on my PC, I pull up the account on my Ipad which brings up the mobile version of the account ; then bookmark that to my synchronised Bookmarks and then the mobile version with Tweets and Replies comes up on my PC whenever I access the Bookmark.

      Hope that helps anyone who doesn’t want any form of Twitter account. (I don’t as I know I don’t have the discipline to not get addicted!)

  18. joe90 18
    17 March 2018 at 2:42 pm

    Another Kansas economic miracle.

    /

    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms.

    Conservatives passed all of it, setting in motion a grand experiment. Now it’s time for another big election, but instead of campaigning on eight years of achievements, Republicans are confronting chaos and crisis. Agency budgets that were cut during the Great Recession have been slashed even deeper. Rural hospitals are closing, and teachers are considering a statewide strike over low wages.

    “I’m not scared to say it, because I love Oklahoma, and we are dying,” said Republican state Rep. Leslie Osborn. “I truly believe the situation is dire.”

    Oklahoma’s woes offer the ultimate cautionary tale for other states considering trickle-down economic reforms. The outlook is so grim that some Republicans are willing to consider the ultimate heresy: raising taxes to fund education and health care, an idea that was once the exclusive province of Democrats.

    https://apnews.com/f058811fa1fb4bf68a34e3c243a14a6f

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 18.1
      17 March 2018 at 2:54 pm

      Worth reading!

      Neoliberal anti-tax crusaders keep spewing the rhetoric, despite all evidence showing their approach ends in disaster for society.

  19. adam 19
    17 March 2018 at 3:17 pm

    Have to say rather impressed with Phil Twyford today. I know shock, horror, as I’ve always been a bit of a critic of that West Auckland MP.

    He turned up to a disability housing hui here in Auckland, and took the time to listen. He sat with the deaf group doing the discussion session and picked up the salient points. Better than the last minister for housing who turned up got bored, and was more than mildly rude.

    He made no promises, which is somthing I really respect. We don’t need anymore unfulfilled promises. Actually, he did make one promise, to keeping the dialogue ongoing. He also took into account the diversity within the disabled community and their needs. So the word accessible means different things in different situations. On the table is the need to make many more house accessible, as there will be an explosion of need for accessible houses, especially with our aging population.

    Some of us pushed the tenancy for life for Housing New Zealand residents, he listened and smiled. Which was nice, rather than scoff when put to certain ministers in the last government. I think on this one, people should email him often.

    Twyford accepts there is a Housing Crisis (market failure) in Auckland. It is a complex beast and this is a minister who is looking at a lot of different solutions.

    You can tell there has been a change of government. This lot are not so arrogant. I’ll still be critical of Twyford when he deserves it, but not today. He is doing a good job. Not rushing, and not buying into the creepy gotcha politics of our wayward Tories.

    Carmel Sepuloni as the Minister for Disabled was also supposed to be there today, but she was unable to make it. Shame, as she has a good brain around disabled issues. I would have liked to get her take.

    My partner pointed out Twyford and his associate from MSD both had shocked looks on their faces when some basic math was pointed out to them. To retrofit a house to make it assessable is on average 100,000 dollars. To do make most houses assessable during building is only around 5,000 dollars. I was with them on the shocked part as well.

    • Carolyn_Nth 19.1
      17 March 2018 at 4:38 pm

      Thanks for the report, adam. It’s good to see attention to disabilities when working on creating more affordable housing.

      In the end, a they say, we are all only temporarily able bodied. As I’ve got older I have developed one or two minor disabilities, and am seeing others of my peers needing medical intervention, support and monitoring. So I am become increasingly aware the diverse issues around disability.

    • weka 19.2
      17 March 2018 at 4:46 pm

      thanks adam, that is very interesting. I’ve been getting increasingly angry with Labour over housing, so it is good to have this balanced.

      How would you be with me using your comment in a post (attributed)?

      • adam 19.2.1
        17 March 2018 at 7:57 pm

        Of course weka, go hard.

        Remember that they have a civil service actively working against them on housing, those individuals committed to a market solution. I think it will be a uphill battle for the government on this.

    • Graeme 19.3
      17 March 2018 at 5:06 pm

      The costs of retrofit vs provision would be about right. It doesn’t cost any more to put the walls in the right place and have the door openings the right size. The space provision for toilet and shower are a little less “efficient” but more liveable and the extra cost for wider doors and the bigger wet areas is minimal and gives a higher standard house. And with a bit of smart design the space requirement isn’t that much. When you retro those into an existing house you start moving walls and that gets expensive, fast.

      I effectively built our house to disabled standard 20 years ago with wide doors, full wet area bathroom and chair access. Any extra cost was just making a better house and I’m really struggling to think of any actual costs apart from my time to think about it and maybe a few extra dwangs to receive hand holds if ever required, and the wider doors, but I’d do that again anyway.

    • Kay 19.4
      17 March 2018 at 5:40 pm

      Yes, thank you for that report Adam. I wish I could feel any sort of optimism but I just can’t anymore, I can only hope with a change of Govt it can’t possibly DELIBERATELY get any worse for us.

      Obviously an Auckland based hui, but any acknowledgement the housing crisis has gone national? Not a hope of access to council or state housing in Wellington anymore if you become homeless even if you’re disabled. There’s a lot of very frightened people here too.

  20. Jenny 20
    17 March 2018 at 3:44 pm

    The multipolar spin: how fascists operationalize left-wing resentment

    “The Syria connection”

    The Syria Solidarity Movement lists on its steering committee a host of syncretic figures like Duginist, Navid Nasr and an Australian representative of the fascist-modeled Syrian Social Nationalist Party affiliate, Mussalaha. Before a report revealed her associations with Global Research, Ron Paul and the right-wing British Constitution Party, conspiracy theorist Vanessa Beeley held a position on the steering committee as well.

    As an editor at the alt-right-associated conspiracy theory site, 21stCenturyWire, Beeley’s repeated conspiracy articles attempting to link the White Helmets to al Qaeda and George Soros earned her a visit with Assad in Damascus and senior Russian officials in Moscow; however, they have been thoroughly debunked. A defender of right-wing Hungarian president Viktor Orban, Beeley promotes antisemites like Gilad Atzmon and Dieudonné, even speaking at a conference hosted by the latter in partnership with notorious Holocaust denier Laurent Louis. Regardless, the Syrian Solidarity Movement and the associated Hands Off Syria Coalition recommend Beeley’s work.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180309225139/https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/09/multipolar-spin-how-fascists-operationalize-left-wing-resentment

  21. adam 21
    17 March 2018 at 3:53 pm

    Utterly Brilliant. For those who hate watching videos, watch this – time well spent. Laura Flanders is one great journalist. And in this 27 minute video she shows why she is so great.

    Content, Helen Clarke and Gaylene Preston. Helen being very honest, very very honest. Utterly Brilliant.

  22. joe90 22
    17 March 2018 at 5:25 pm

    So much for the tRump team’s masterful innovation, the fuckers were dishonest.
    /

    So Cambridge Analytica fraudulently obtained Facebook user data and then used it to run election ads on Donald Trump’s behalf https://t.co/8ZhEeMPAZK pic.twitter.com/Q0qIzIEMKK— Casey Newton (@CaseyNewton) March 17, 2018

    Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to information from people after they chose to download his app. His app, “thisisyourdigitallife,” offered a personality prediction, and billed itself on Facebook as “a research app used by psychologists.” Approximately 270,000 people downloaded the app. In so doing, they gave their consent for Kogan to access information such as the city they set on their profile, or content they had liked, as well as more limited information about friends who had their privacy settings set to allow it.

    Although Kogan gained access to this information in a legitimate way and through the proper channels that governed all developers on Facebook at that time, he did not subsequently abide by our rules. By passing information on to a third party, including SCL/Cambridge Analytica and Christopher Wylie of Eunoia Technologies, he violated our platform policies. When we learned of this violation in 2015, we removed his app from Facebook and demanded certifications from Kogan and all parties he had given data to that the information had been destroyed. Cambridge Analytica, Kogan and Wylie all certified to us that they destroyed the data.

    (my bold)

    https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-analytica/

    • Carolyn_Nth 22.1
      17 March 2018 at 5:37 pm

      At the moment there is just a new claim that FB are investigating – ie whether Cambridge Analytica held on to any of the info they were ordered to delete a while back:

      Several days ago, we received reports that, contrary to the certifications we were given, not all data was deleted. We are moving aggressively to determine the accuracy of these claims.

  23. Carolyn_Nth 23
    17 March 2018 at 5:43 pm

    Wayne Mapp will be on the q&a panel on TV1 tomorrow – wonder if he’ll talk about Operation Burnham?

  24. joe90 24
    17 March 2018 at 7:52 pm

    For years Costa Rica has been the exception in Central America. Uninterrupted democracy since 1948, no military, one of the highest living standards in the region, free education, the highest literacy rate in Latin America, universal health care, restrictive abortion laws but more than 90% of women avail themselves of reproductive health care, and an economy driven by agricultural exports and high end eco-tourism.

    But dollars to donuts, this evangelical whack job would see them right back to where they started.

    SAN JOSE (Reuters) – Conservative evangelical Christian Fabricio Alvarado Munoz has an effective lead of almost 14 percentage points over ruling party hopeful Carlos Alvarado Quesada in the race to be Costa Rica’s next president, an opinion poll showed on Friday.

    Alvarado Munoz, a 43-year-old religious singer and former journalist who belongs to the National Restoration Party, shot to prominence after condemning a court ruling that urged Costa Rica to grant civil marriage rights to same-sex couples.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-costa-rica-election/evangelical-conservative-leads-costa-rica-election-race-poll-idUKKCN1GT04B?rpc=401&amp;

  25. Pat 25
    17 March 2018 at 9:52 pm

    “Kenneth Boulding, the economist, famously said that: “Anyone who believes that exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist”.

    Ecological economists argue that the economy is physical, while mainstream economists seem to believe it is metaphysical”

    https://theecologist.org/2018/feb/22/why-economic-growth-not-compatible-environmental-sustainability

    Tick tock…

    https://easac.eu/fileadmin/PDF_s/reports_statements/Negative_Carbon/EASAC_Report_on_Negative_Emission_Technologies.pdf

  26. OncewasTim 26
    18 March 2018 at 3:11 am

    Here’s a serious question for TS and its moderators
    Is Ad/Advantage intended to be some aort of fair and balanced advocate for the ‘right of the left’ as in slightlyvright of lprent….no….actually extreme righr of lprent all things considered (including egos).
    -i kind of wonder whether Ad is like the token whatever.
    If I were a puntee, I’d pik him (definately HIM) to be some sort of senior policy ANALyst of manager on the gumint civil service that has gone Oh so fucking very wrong over the past 2 or 3 decades.
    Cud evin b Ad works (or has a sugfifikunt other) for that buggers muddle that is so often to have come short of its public service risssponsbilties (going forard).

    Should be noted that this Munstry (with a few good folk) could ekshully challenged a fair few of its fukups
    I’m still not sure why the new xoalition wants to continue to support it rather than pulling out some of its obvious agencies with …. well good managers.

    I guess the coalition may well be suckers for punishment.
    They often are of course

    • OncewasTim 26.1
      18 March 2018 at 3:24 am

      Btw… xtreme difficulty in past post tekniklojikilly
      Ekshully involved some Adsl/vdsl end a bit a 4G telljince across sell tears on a borda.

  27. eco maori 27
    18 March 2018 at 4:16 am

    BBC World news you have one nation flying Drones into foreign countrys and they kill women children elderly.
    And ifs its true bad timing for Them with the football World Cup and all happening at the minute two people are the victim. What I Don’t Like is the MEDIA hyping this subject up this could start a war this is the power of the worlds media has you people have to realise what you’re actions have on our society. Eco Maori says WAR is for idiots diplomacy is what is need here.
    There is a Human trait one gets a better response just by using your own brain it is better to use the Carrot than the stick this is well document and is logical so stop blowing the flames on this subject. A number of countries could have pulled this off for there own motive it could be a distraction for some there could be many behind the seens reason for another nation / organisation to set that up people don’t realise how cruel and crooked the 00.1% Can be ECO MAORI SEE this behaviour everyday and us the 99.9 % have to stop this bad behaviour.
    Its good that all the mokos around Papatuanukue the world are making a stand against the dumb gun laws of America Kia kaha mokos. Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 27.1
      18 March 2018 at 4:35 am

      BBC There is one reason that one uses the stick instead of the carrot.
      That is because the welder of the stick wants to damage Mana the recipient full stop. People that are receiving the sticks treatment know that this is the intentions of the welder of the stick many thanks for showing Nomalm Crosinsky he’s a great humane humble man I idealise.
      Kia kaha Ka kite ano.

      • eco maori 27.1.1
        18 March 2018 at 10:16 am

        Eco Maori can see the proof of his influence evenwith the sandflys trying there best to suppress me. I am using my influence to leave behind a better SOCIETY for the mokos in my view that is my main goal.
        Here is a substance that I have a beef with and that’s Alcohol.
        Yesterday celebrations of a great culture has been hijacked by the Alcohol industry yes it has promoted the culture but at what cost to OUR WORLD has this hijacking this great culture day of celebrating drunken violence would have increased and all the other bad stats that are allways associated with alcohol consumption. Whats such a joke is we have a medical substance and a substance that is a poison if consumed to strong and fast we lock people up associated with the medical substance and the poison we let companies sell it to OUR mokos in any fashion they can dream up advising ECT it’s sold in the supermarket.
        I advocate banning supermarkets sales and rasing the age limit to 19 than 20 and ban advertising till after 9 pm.
        Kia kaha Ka kite ano P.S. I have to remind myself of the old MAORI saying a Kumara never tells how sweet it is enough said.

  28. eco maori 28
    18 March 2018 at 10:57 am

    I also say there should be a investigation into that substance that we use to kill green growth grasses ECT weedspray some of the sprays we use are being banned in Germany we need the facts revealed on the reason why these spay are banned and I say if the proof is a negative effect on us and the creaters and lifes on PAPATUANUKUE then we should follow there lead.
    I remember when I was young in Tairawhiti there were hundreds of WEKA now the presious WEKA are no we’re to be seen in Tairawhiti as far as I know.
    I was informed by a very good source that the sprays softened the Weka egg shells that much that none of there chicks could hatch because there shell broke during the incubation period.
    If these sprays do that to Wekar what side effect do these sprays have on us and other organisations it will not be very good I say the die out of Weka happed in 5 years they are the canary in the mines if the canary dies be ware and get out of the mine or put on gas mask on as poison is present.in the environment. Kia kaha Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 28.1
      18 March 2018 at 1:48 pm

      Here is the faith a person in the know have in the Democrats takeing power off some one that will do anything to win the next president election in America.

      BEST OF THE WEEK
      NZ diplomat under fire for US politics tweets
      Mar 14 2018

      • eco maori 28.1.1
        18 March 2018 at 3:09 pm

        Some are trying to imply that all my support is mostly made up of the mokos but Know they are minupulating there stats to try and undermine ECO MAORI that’s the big picture there a lot of Common people can identify with me Ka kite ano

  29. eco maori 29
    18 March 2018 at 5:47 pm

    Good to hear good music MoreFm Stan Walker Little Black Box And Pinks song What About us excellent Kia kaha Ka kite ano

  30. eco maori 30
    22 March 2018 at 5:40 pm

    The sandflys were at there best today I can see when I move from one town to town them passing the batten the the sandflys from Tauranga were extra aggressive but Eco Maori just swipes them away. I know why they are upset 2 reasons one I had warned Gisborne man that’s his m8 would abandoned
    2 well you will have to figure it out.
    Yes the sandflys have been trying there hardest to get me to turn into a idiot but know all there intimidat games every time I go out they are at it must have hit a nerve with me revealing that he’s a Exsquse brevern lol Ana to kai

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