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Open mike 18/01/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 18th, 2012 - 63 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

63 comments on “Open mike 18/01/2012 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Resident Standard poster Eddy is, actively dissuading political parties and activists from giving any support to the wharfies, calling on the Greens and even Occupy Activists to join the Labour Party in turning their back on these workers.

    Eddie refuses to admit that this dispute is about union busting, repeating the right wing narrative about this dispute, that it is all about wage demands. Eddie has a closed mind (and heart), when it comes to this dispute.

    1951 it ain’t for now“, says Eddie.

    Compare this to the Greens, Denise Roche’s statement on this dispute. Roche prefers to keep an open mind, going right to the heart of the matter in questioning the management’s motives:

    I wonder what the management’s real aims are, given that the company had previously drawn up a strategy to contract out the workforce

    Denise Roche

    Read Denise Roche full post on Frogblog

    Compare Denise post to Eddie’s post against giving support to the wharfies.

    Some have compared the Port of Auckland dispute to the 1890 waterfront dispute, 1913 general strike, and 1951 lockout. They want Labour and the Greens to get involved. Actually, this is no 1951 redux.

    Eddie

    Eddie justifies his call to withhold support from the wharfies, by minimising their struggle in comparison with past struggles.

    Only 300 workers in one port are involved at present and there have been a few hours delays for a handful of ships on the 5 days of striking. Those disputes (in the past) were about workers trying to win fundamental gains: the right to form unions, the right to paid breaks, the right to a fair pay increase. They were about the fundamental balance of power between capital and labour.

    Eddie

    Eddie refuses to contemplate the idea that this dispute is also about principle, instead spreading the lie that this dispute is all about wage levels between competing companies, and ignoring the central issue of the dispute, management’s intention to contract out all the union jobs.

    This dispute is about a business trying to cuts its wage bill so that it can undercut a competitor.

    Eddie

    Not once in his post does Eddie even mention the words “contracting out”.

    If this is what Labour supporters like Eddie are openly admitting to in public, I can only imagine the hidden pressure the Labour Party is putting on the Greens, left activists and other unionists to distance themselves from the wharfies.

    To the Green Party, Occupy Activists and all trade unionists in Aotearoa, Stay strong, resist the demand of the Labour Party to betray the wharfies by withholding your support. Instead do the opposite.

    Kia Kaha

    Solidarity forever.

  2. Jenny 2

    Eddies unspoken sub-text, that the wharfies struggle, “is about a business trying to cuts its wage bill”, Is that, if only the workers made more concessions, this dispute would be over and their jobs would be saved.

    Eddie is either ignorant of the facts or being deliberately misleading.

    Eddie has omitted the fact that MUNZ has made every concession the company have asked for.

    The company is also offering workers a 10% wage increase, to workers to leave the union.

  3. Jenny 3

    Eddie claimed, that unlike disputes of the past, the wharfies struggle is not about workers trying to win fundamental gains: the right to form unions, the right to paid breaks, the right to a fair pay increase. About the fundamental balance of power between capital and labour.

    This is exactly what this struggle is about.

    To consciously promote this lie, is to expose yourself as an active enemy of working people.

    My hope is that someone in the Labour Party with some authority, will have the courage to speak up and distance the Labour Party from Eddie’s views.

    • just saying 3.1

      I’m quite impressed by the pressure that is starting to build momentum, for Labour to “step up”. From party members, and the wider left.

      I think the chances of Labour leadership giving the wharfies unequivocal support are about the same as those for me winning lotto. But hey – I have every confidence that I will win it one day.

      btw Jenny – I appreciate your work here at The Standard.

      • LynW 3.1.1

        +1 Ditto to both points

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.2

        Here, EDDIE thought it would have been excellent for Shearer to speak out on the following (in fact penning the words FOR Shearer), saying that it would “consolidate his (Shearer’s) brand”:

        Shearer’s Address in Reply

        So perhaps EDDIE is pushing for Shearer not to get involved on the side of the union and PoA workers at this stage, because doing so wouldn’t fit ‘Shearer’s brand’. Whatever that is.

        “We will protect the right of workers to negotiate for fair pay rises. We will continue to argue that workers are an asset, not a cost, to business, and they deserve fair pay. We do not agree that workers have to lift their productivity before wages can rise – increases have been outstripping wages for decades and the share of GDP that goes to workers here is much lower than in Australia”

        Now, this paragraph has direct application to the PoA dispute.

        So why would Shearer not say the exact words above while speaking about the PoA dispute not in specifics but in terms of Labour’s principles.

        If Shearer did not want to get involved personally at this stage (and tactically there might be sense there), then why not allow one of his spokespeople to issue a press release about the dispute, supporting worker rights to good faith bargaining and standing firm against downgrading of their job security.

        I feel these are questions worth asking.

        PS does anyone ever talk about Gandhi’s “brand”? Martin Luther King’s “brand”? Michael Joseph Savage’s “brand”? Norman Kirk’s “brand”? I find this part of it fucking ridiculous.

        • higherstandard 3.1.2.1

          ‘PS does anyone ever talk about Gandhi’s “brand”? Martin Luther King’s “brand”? Michael Joseph Savage’s “brand”? Norman Kirk’s “brand”? I find this part of it fucking ridiculous.”

          Modern drivel speak along the lines of the corporate credo, mission statement etc etc.

          Every time I hear someone quoting them I’m reminded of a line I read in the UK years ago –

          ‘Punch, it’s a load of fucking old wank!’

      • just saying 3.1.3

        Oh dear. I sure hope my lotto outlook is brighter.

        From Idiot Savant at ‘No Right Turn’:

        Useless

        So its come to this: after a week of silence on the Ports of Auckland dispute, the Labour Party has come out and confirmed that it is in fact a useless waste of space:

        Yesterday Labour industrial relations spokeswoman Darien Fenton, who has been spotted on the picket line at the port, said her party was not taking sides in the dispute.

        “We’ve been hoping that the parties will settle this, that they’ll find a way through this.”

        Ms Fenton said Mr Shearer had been in regular touch with both sides, “and he’s in contact with me and we’re all discussing it regularly”.

        “Our strong view at this point is it’s not helpful for politicians to get involved.”

        Its not quite Walter Nash’s “neither for nor against”, but it amounts to the same thing. Faced with a test of its core values, Labour flunked, preferring to sit on the fence than speak up. And as a result, their party’s name is now an exercise in false advertising. What does Labour stand for now? It’s certainly not labour. Instead, all they offer is an alternative set of political managers, a different set of bums on seats. And this is supposed to inspire people to turn out and vote for them? The only thing it inspires me to do is look for a party that actually appears to believe in something.

        But its not just a case of undermining their brand. Labour has just sent a clear message to its supporters that that support is a one-way street. You can support them, but they won’t support you. No self-respecting person should accept such a one-sided relationship.

        Posted by Idiot/Savant

  4. randal 4

    according to that most right wing of right wing media outlets the dompost, the dispute is about lumbering the POAL with all the costs while the stevedoring is privatised.
    that was yesterday for $1.60.
    I must check the library to day to see if anything has changed.

  5. Jackal 5

    Much of the net will soon be dark… many websites are being taken down in protest against the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and Protect IP Act (PIPA), which are backed by big entertainment and media interests.

    The 18th January 2012 marks the day when sites like Google (not a full blackout), Wikipedia, Reddit and BoingBoing will go black in protest. The blackout will be in effect for 24 hours, worldwide, beginning at 05:00 UTC.

    The Jackal has ceased transmission in support of killing the bill. #SOPASTRIKE

    • Lanthanide 5.1

      SOPA has already been canned by the house. Senate is still going ahead with PIPA AFAIK but without the house passing it, it doesn’t really matter much. Also the executive (white house) issued a statement saying they were very cautious about it; I reckon if it came to it Obama probably would have pocket-veto’d it.

      • Jackal 5.1.1

        SOPA will be suspended until there’s a broader consensus among lawmakers about the legislation… it has not been canned.

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.2

        Hey Lanth – just as Obama said he had serious concerns about the NDAA and its detention without trial of US citizens on US soil clause, and that he might veto it?

        And then quietly just signed it?

    • lprent 5.2

      Jenny tried that this morning. For anyone with post editing (at least), her post today showed up as complete black. She’d managed to put in a empty color box div that covered the whole post by default.

      I must remember that technique….

  6. I haven’t been annoying the trolls for a while and thought today was an excellent day to do just that.

    Here is a new video detailing the different elements of the collapse of the three WTC buildings on 911.
    Bombs in the basement and the lobby and three pyroclastic flows as hot as a vocano’s pyroclastic flow are some of the puzzling and unexplained issues addressed here.

    Enjoy!

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      I’m pretty sure all the 9/11 hijackers were Iranian. Osama Bin Laden was also Iranian! The Iranians must pay!

      • travellerev 6.1.1

        And Ahmadinajad financed it all!!!

        • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

          I always think of the phrase “I’m a dinner jacket” when I hear his name 🙂

          • Lanthanide 6.1.1.1.1

            You should totally use it in conversation. My boyfriend and I have. It’s fun to watch people’s slight double-take “did I really hear that right?” reactions before they just assume that actually you said his name properly.

            We go with “I’m in a dinner jacket” though.

    • Gosman 6.2

      How’s Richad Gage’s petition coming along? Has he reached critical mass yet? I mean he has been gathering signatures for a good number of years he surely must have close to 100,000 people. It can’t take that long to get support especially when you have the ‘truth’ behind you.

      • The Voice of Reason 6.2.1

        It’ll all come out at the upcoming Toronto conference, Gosman. That’s where the truth will finally be revealed and the guilty parties will be named.

        No wait, they already had the Toronto conference and, er, nothing happened. It’s a conspiracy, I tells ya! The NWO engineered the truthers to spontaneously explode under the weight of their own prejudices by igniting the hot air they produce in a series of giant waffle makers that were smuggled into the hall disguised as aircraft.
         
        Damn George W. Bush, the smartest, cleverest and most dangerous drunk and coke addled illuminati to ever walk the earth. Quick, pass the Koolaid, I feel the rapture coming on!

        • Gosman 6.2.1.1

          I’m impressed VoR.

          I’m also quite interested in finding out more about this Toronto conference. No really I am.

          So Travellerev what was the deal with that? Was it meant to be some sort of life changing event or just more much ado about nothing?

        • Armchair Critic 6.2.1.2

          Don’t drink the Koolaid, VOR

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.2.1

            VOR doesn’t realise that these things take time. Unlike a nano-thermite charge which can cut through an inch of rebar as if it were butter left out on a summers day.

  7. just saying 7

    http://www.tumeke.blogspot.com/

    The above link is well worth a look imo. Bomber hosts David Cunliffe and ‘Back-Benchers’ presenter, Wallace Chapman, and they discuss their predictions for 2012. They all impress, in their different ways.

    RIP Stratos. Still very pissed-off about Stratos and TV 7

    • tc 7.1

      Agree, freewiew is becoming a joke and Sky’s the winner under the nats….funny that.

      Heartland going behind sky’s paywall is a typical example of taxpayer funded content lining their mates pockets. wonder where recycling rick will pop up next being a good old blueboy.

    • Salsy 7.2

      I watched that this morning, what a great panel. Cunliffe is an exceptionally cool cat. Love listening to him speak, his personality and his politics. Great mix of relaxed, authoritative, friendly and accessible. I think Labour have it right, if Shearer fails to fire, there’s a well oiled machine ready go…

      • tc 7.2.1

        Agree about others being ready to go, not so sure about a well oiled machine…..with rusty relics like Mallard still around the neck.

    • newsense 7.3

      This is depressing watching.

      I watch this wishing more than ever that David Cunliffe was leading our country right now. Or was it’s Finance Minister.

      When you think of all the talent that has come out of bfM and craccum matured through our broadcasting system it is also sad that at the moment Wallace Chapman and Bomber can’t get a wider audience for their work. bFm still misses Chapman’s ads.

      • newsense 7.3.1

        wait- really really depressing.

        Only marginal bright spot is the talk of cooperation between Labour and the other opposition parties, that they would ‘hunt like a pack’. I mean this simply has to happen strategically when you look at the way the Nats have used ACT, Maori party and UF.

        Wish Cunliffe had looked this relaxed on previous tv appearances, rather than tried to look finance ministerial. Joyce/Key always look relaxed- it gives them authority even when they are talking crap or spinning moonbeams.

  8. randal 8

    lprent please do something about the geek on here who keeps talking about the other posters but never addressing the issues.

    • lprent 8.1

      Which one? There are several…

      However I draw the limit at fire and forget trolls. If people respond to critics with thought, even if they avoid the questions raised, then they are fulfilling the requirements of the site because they are engaging with people.

      Think it through. It is a self-correcting problem. If they wind up with noone bothering to interact with them then their comments by definition become fire and forget (or in the worst cases they wind up talking to themselves) trolls. Then I’d act.

      It is the responsibility of commentators to be relevant to the others here. Otherwise they’ll start losing their ability to comment…. evil eh? 😈

  9. hellonearthis 9

    I don’t like how the rss feed only shows a snip-it of story, it used to show the whole think.
    This means it takes me more time to read your posts and on somedays this will mean I wont read them at all.

    Please please go back to the old system, your not loosing money over the difference and if you are are doing it for the vanity of page view then you know you could use feedburner to count how many people are reading your rss feed.

    Thanks

    • lprent 9.1

      The triggering problem was with people reading just the initial RSS feed and responding to that because the client side RSS systems weren’t picking up the revisions. Posts often get a bit of editing just after publishing. I noticed several people doing it and it irritated me (Cactus Kate being the triggering example).

      But as the sysop I have been very concerned about RSS for some time as well because the RSS feeds are now starting to rival the spambots for overseas data volumes (and a lot of those appear to be spambots).

      Even the traffic for RSS feeds for identifiable people is increasing. Presumably because many people aren’t using aggregation systems like feedburner. I’m always concerned about data volumes especially overseas traffic because if I can keep those down then I can use smaller and cheaper servers.

      To give you an idea of the problem. The main server is currently in NZ. It is convenient to keep in NZ because it massively improves performance for the 95+% of our readers who are in NZ. When I moved it back here I set it up with near realtime replication with a server in the US and routed all overseas traffic outside Oceania to it. The problem was as that we ramped up in posts and comments towards the election the replication traffic broke our overseas datacap.

      The NZ server has free local traffic and a 60GB overseas traffic datacap that costs $3/GB over that cap. That is mostly because of the costing model for the Southern Cross cable which is horrendous for local servers. Replication was costing us hundreds of dollars per month. So I pulled all of the traffic to NZ and relegated the US server to a warm backup. However as we got closer to the election the overseas traffic kept increasing and shows little sign of dropping post-election. It is now starting to cost us over the cap.

      There are a few humans using the overseas data for reading the sites. But mostly it is robots like RSS feeds, spambots and search engines. I’m happy to tolerate the search engines crawling the site (~20GB per month) and I can mostly use SEO tuning to minimize their impacts on our data. Spambots I tend to remove using .htaccess and other tools and their traffic has been reducing.

      But the RSS feeds have been most of the the overseas traffic increase. Based on the posts that they picking up (comments have a different pattern) they’re crawling the whole site. So presume they’ve bots and I don’t think that there are too many humans using it.

      So I can leave the RSS with full posts. But I’d have to move the server out of NZ to get around these poxy overseas data caps, thereby reducing the service for most of the readers. Or I can massively reduce the size of the RSS posts and piss a few people off – incidentally the people who cost us without helping to pay for the site.

      Sorry – RSS is becoming a liability in NZ. If I can figure out a way of doing it, I’ll probably get around to putting full feeds on something like feedburner. But I can’t leave the RSS’s wide open.

      • Lanthanide 9.1.1

        Interestingly the prices for international data have gone down by 44%, “coincidentally” at the same time a new trans-tasman cable plan was announced.

        So hopefully data will become cheaper in the next few months.

      • hellonearthis 9.1.2

        Why not put the RSS feed on a cheaper USA server, speed isn’t really an issue for rss data.
        Have to come to the site to read the story would cost you more as the amount of data on a web page vs RSS feed is much greater. 1mb vs 30kb … (public service ads + comments)

        Having the RSS data there would not cost so much, if the cost is so much, then use a vpn service like astrill so you can send your data through a NZ vpn address (national data cost) to the USA for $5 a month (vpn cost).

        I don’t see much spam on the standard and rss would not be the problem, the user signup would the problem there.

        If you update a post from it’s original (rss copy) then have a note saying that it has been updated.

        Please reconsider, as a Labour movement (not party) I thought it would be in the Standards ideology to make it as easy as possible to read your content and not make a task more labour intensive that it need be.

        • debatewatcher 9.1.2.1

          I would second the request for a return to full RSS feeds, if at all possible. I read blogs first on my smartphone and the ones that have full RSS feeds are so much easier to read via Google Reader.

          For blogs that don’t have full RSS feeds (like Pundit and now The Standard), I generally only read every 2-3 days on my main PC. Even then I still use Google Reader, but it’s so much easier to read websites on a PC screen. (I still appreciate the mobile version of The Standard, but no real comparison to a RSS feed).

          • lprent 9.1.2.1.1

            Open mike 18/01/2012

            The problem for me is that we can’t keep bleeding overseas bandwidth and the associated high costs for the few humans that read the channel.

            I don’t have time until March at the earliest (I’m moving house in march after I finish my current project) to look for a better fix.

        • lprent 9.1.2.2

          Catching up (been a tad busy).

          Why not put the RSS feed on a cheaper USA server, speed isn’t really an issue for rss data.
          Have to come to the site to read the story would cost you more as the amount of data on a web page vs RSS feed is much greater. 1mb vs 30kb … (public service ads + comments)

          I think you missed the point.

          I don’t care about the cost of people reading the pages inside NZ. Local bandwidth is effectively ‘free’, ie part of the server base cost. But the RSS feed is currently open not only to NZ, but also to the rest of the world and that is where I have a problem. About 90% of the RSS post traffic is from outside the country, probably has nothing to do with human readers, and any overseas traffic has a cap on it beyond which we get charged an excess.

          Now I could cut off the RSS for everything outside NZ, which would be easy to do and would get rid of the GB’s of overseas traffic that cause the issue. That would also cut off such overseas sources as feedburner and google reader.

          I could have moved the whole server offshore and got around the ridiculous local overseas caps. But that would slow the site for the vast majority of users to satisfy a small minority who use RSS.

          I could have done something tricky like a VPN, but bearing in mind the likelihood of violating terms of service with the subsequent demands on my time, I wasn’t really that interested in complicating my own life.

          So I compromised and changed it to exactly what is seen when people go to the front page. That should drop the overseas traffic down far enough that we don’t wind up paying excesses for overseas traffic while still keeping the RSS feed open.

          Please reconsider, as a Labour movement (not party) I thought it would be in the Standards ideology to make it as easy as possible to read your content and not make a task more labour intensive that it need be.

          It is exactly as easy as it is for everyone else who reads on the site. You are wanting it to be easier.

          After I get this code release for work done at the end of Feburary and I start having more free time, I’ll have a look at what else can be done. But in the meantime this solution gets rid of my current problem while limiting only a few readers.

          I suspect that the ideal will be to restrict the full RSS feed to inside NZ and to a limited number of overseas aggregating servers like google reader, feedburner, and the like.

          • hellonearthis 9.1.2.2.1

            Would there be any issues if I data minded the page to build a full RSS feed?

            BTW, I don’t think a VPN would break any terms, it would just tunnel traffic through a 2nd NZ service (local data) to the USA. The Astrill NZ service has no worries with data as they provide enough bandwidth for people outside NZ to view TVonDemand.

            • lprent 9.1.2.2.1.1

              No problem. There are some traps for scanners, but their params are pretty wide to handle the search engine spiders and the national library.

        • lprent 9.1.2.3

          I don’t see much spam on the standard and rss would not be the problem, the user signup would the problem there.

          There should be none. However that doesn’t mean that the buggers down’t spend a lot of effort trying to get in.

  10. The Voice of Reason 10

    Darien Fenton on Labour and the POA dispute:
     
    “Sure, employers can seek reasonable efficiencies, effective labour utilisation and a fair return on investment. The Ports are an important part of our transport infrastructure and they need to be operating as productively and efficiently as possible.
    But good faith bargaining and working together to find common ground is the way to achieve this, not wholesale redundancies and contracting out.”
     
     
     

    • newsense 10.1

      and most importantly which has not been said loudly enough by anyone:

      “Three deaths at the Ports of Tauranga in the last 15 months should make us all question the safety of contracted out stevedoring firms who compete with each other for business.

      No worker has died at the Ports of Auckland for 18 years.”

      Will the POT be charged? Or are we seeing people as expendable like those at Foxxconn in China where they put nets on the sides of their buildings to prevent suicides? It’s a slippery slope and we are heading down not up.

      EDIT: see that I/S isn’t buying it as too little too late, and an attempt to mouth words to placate supporters (like me) without actually doing anything or helping the union.

    • Colonial Viper 10.2

      “Sure, employers can seek reasonable efficiencies, effective labour utilisation and a fair return on investment. The Ports are an important part of our transport infrastructure and they need to be operating as productively and efficiently as possible.
      But good faith bargaining and working together to find common ground is the way to achieve this, not wholesale redundancies and contracting out.”

      No mention of

      1) The difference between assets owned for the public good and those for the maximum profit of private shareholders.

      2) No analysis of the wider economic benefits of having a port, i.e. the assessment only deals with the port in isolation.

      3) The externalisation of costs on to the community from the withdrawal of wages and dependable permanent employment.

      4) The demands of the Auckland City Council for ever higher returns on investment without investigating whether the assumptions behind those demands are at all feasible.

  11. The vitriolic racist comments by Michael Laws regarding the recent rape case involving overseas visitors is disturbing to say the least.
    His continual use of “Feral Maori ” is insulting and foul . As far as I know there has be no mention of the race of the offender in this case . The regular ranting against Maori by Laws makes one wonder if he is becoming mentally unbalanced.

    • tc 11.1

      ‘ makes one wonder if he is becoming mentally unbalanced.’ already has been for some time PP, pretty sure it’s why radio Live use him, shock jock = ratings amongst certain listener groups.

      The fact he’s still on air shows both how p’weak our broadcasting rules are and how desperate Mediaworks are for exposure.

    • Vicky32 11.2

      The vitriolic racist comments by Michael Laws regarding the recent rape case involving overseas visitors is disturbing to say the least.
      His continual use of “Feral Maori ” is insulting and foul

      I hadn’t heard these comments, but they seem typical of him… 🙁

    • fender 11.3

      Yes M. Laws is a racist prick.
      I saw him on TV talking about Maori and violent crime and had to wonder why anybody would want the opinion of a fuckwit who talks about shooting newsroom staff.

  12. randal 12

    hot off the MSN news.
    Phil Twyford has stepped up to bat for the watersiders.
    dont blow it Phil.
    you know whats at stake.
    and once you’re gone you cant come back.
    when you’re out of the blue and into the black.

  13. Oxy Morgan has flicked his Kiwi Saver business, no doubt pocketing a hansom sum in the proses
    The oxymoron of Gareth Morgan is that he talks about climate change in one breath, then the next one he is promoting something that locks us into more climate change (for the bad) as the few awake people understand Kiwi Saver is based on continued economic growth. And for Russell Norman’s fictional 25 year old that growth must continue for the next 45 years.
    Morgan also likes to fly around the world to go joyriding on his motor bike. His footprint must be the size of several small African villages ;).

  14. randal 14

    yeah, and he let slater and hooton and farrar run riot over maori and jw’s when he owned trademe.
    he’s pretty slimy.

  15. AAMC 15

    For Gosman

    “This (austerity) is akin to a doctor telling a patient suffering from pneumonia to go on a diet and get more exercise. While exercise is important, it assumes a healthy patient. If the patient is sick, he must build up his strength until he is physically capable of exercising again…

    Balance sheet recessions, which occur when businesses and households rush to pay down debt in spite of zero interest rates, are a kind of pneumonia. The only way to treat them is for the government to become the borrower and spender of last resort with fiscal stimulus aimed at propping up aggregate demand.”

    http://pragcap.com/deficits-are-good-during-a-balance-sheet-recession?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    Is reality at some point going to catch up with the Right, now that their ideologies are truly being put to the test, and are failing?

    “it would also be obtuse not to recognise that a private-sector and market failure is at the heart of the current crisis; or to reconsider the role that new forms of public ownership could play in a modern economy in the light of China’s experience…”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/china-success-challenges-america-britain

    • Gosman 15.1

      Which part of the sovereign debt crisis in Europe is indicative of the failure of the free market?

      • AAMC 15.1.1

        Other than Greece the Sovereign debt in Europe has escalated as a result of the recession which resulted from the GFC which was the result of Greenspan and his gaggle of Ayn Rand Theocrats believing the invisible hand was all that was needed and failed to see the sub-prime bubble and the CDS’s triggering and subsequent wipe out of Lehman Bros & AIG.. yada yada..

        Your Free market caused this crisis Gosman, Greek debt isn’t a get out of jail free card for any but the least informed or the faithful.

  16. Campbell Larsen 16

    Evidently C & T have found a new recruit who managed to slither his way onto the Back Benches panel and started spouting the ‘politics is boring/ hard to understand’ memes…..

    Talk about blatent, its not fucking Shortland St buddy, though I hope for your sake you are being paid per word because your delivery has only served to convince me that the right is woefully short on talent.

    As for Jorden whoever , now he’s an expert!!!? I thought one of the most important outcomes from winning the referendum was so that we never had to listen to/ look at that annoying prat again.

    Wallace, I like your show, but you have got to do a better job of filtering out the lizards.

  17. randal 17

    which part of gosman is the windup key and when is the spring going to break.
    the whole thing is a failure of the so called free market.
    where is there a free market?
    show us all so we can be as enlightened as you!

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