Open mike 19/02/2023

42 comments on “Open mike 19/02/2023 ”

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1. Anne 1

   19 February 2023 at 10:02 am

   And here we have it:

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300809224/cyclone-gabrielle-scepticism-is-a-sting-in-covids-tail

   I predicted it here earlier this week and so did others. It wasn't hard.

   Name them and shame them in all their glorious ignorance, stupidity and conspiratorial nuttery.
   • joe90 1.1

     19 February 2023 at 10:31 am

     I guess climate is the pro-pl**** scammers’ plan B.

     https://twitter.com/annamerlan/status/1626596228451696650

     Buoyed by the purported end of a pandemic that continues to kill thousands, anti-vaccine activists now vow to punish their enemies. “These people,” said one, “need to go to prison.”

     https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvm993/anti-vaxxers-think-its-time-for-political-and-legal-revenge
   • bwaghorn 1.2

     19 February 2023 at 10:35 am

     Not surprised it's being stocked by the idiots hawkesbury and hosking, they have no shame.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.3

     19 February 2023 at 10:45 am

     Hi Anne. Incl Ken Ring lol. These nutbars would deny any, and all photo and video evidence as "fake news" ..I kinda wonder if they would ignore the Bridge Down warning signs and drive off into the abyss : )

     Very much close relatives of moon landing hoax and similar conspiracies.
     • Anne 1.3.1

       19 February 2023 at 10:48 am

       RNZ's take on the issue:

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018878253/radio-hosts-fixate-on-schools-closing-as-gabrielle-closed-in

       Its even more contemptuous of ZB talk-back hosts and names all the culprits. Well worth a read.
       • joe90 1.3.1.1

         19 February 2023 at 11:14 am

         ZB hosts with an inflated sense of their own importance, a lack of empathy, and a need for attention?

         https://www.sciencealert.com/narcissists-seem-drawn-to-conspiracy-theories-but-why
         • tWiggle 1.3.1.1.1

           20 February 2023 at 8:51 am

           Remember that John Hawkesby (Hosking's father-in-law) said, not too long ago, more or less that Hosking's on-air opinions were not necessarily his off-air views. Meaning, he is paid to deliver outrage. He is the peddler, his media owners choose the party line. Point the blame where it belongs.
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.3.1.2

         19 February 2023 at 11:21 am

         Education is a wonderful thing. But perhaps it’s not our students who most need to sit down and take on board some information from people better informed than they are.

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018878253/radio-hosts-fixate-on-schools-closing-as-gabrielle-closed-in

         And…good luck with that ! Those talkback asinine asses (hosts and listeners) will never change. I had read the article wondering if woke would be invoke? By hosts and/or listeners…maybe they did ? The whole denial an absolutely disgusting insult to those who lost their lives, homes and …everything.

         Beneath contempt. : (
   • weka 1.4

     19 February 2023 at 12:48 pm

     Anne, wondering if you would have the time to make a complaint to the Broadcasting Standards Authority? Afaik, rulings from the BSA do name people. Maybe strategise here today with Standardistas on how to do a complaint.

     I'll try and do a post.
     • Anne 1.4.1

       19 February 2023 at 2:12 pm

       Been down that road weka.

       Remember the Hobbit controversy during the Key years? I laid a complaint with the BSA over a Q&A episode on the subject involving the late Paul Holmes and Helen Kelly. Took it to the bitter end and along the way consulted a broadcasting expert/lawyer to ensure my submission was as correct as it could be.

       It was dismissed on the grounds… wait for it:

       Helen Kelly is a big girl and can look after herself. The claim had nothing to do with whether Helen Kelly could look after herself. It was to do with the late Paul Holmes twisting the facts of the case to satisfy a particular audience and in particular his mates at Warner Bros. and Peter Jackson.

       A subsequent investigation into the controversy showed that the points I had made were correct but that was some time down the track so the BSA got away with it.

       Not sure whether I can be bothered with that lot again. We'll see.
       • weka 1.4.1.1

         19 February 2023 at 2:46 pm

         sure, but it's one way to name and shame even if the BSA doesn’t find in favour, and this case will have a high level of public interest across the political spectrum.
         • Anne 1.4.1.1.1

           19 February 2023 at 6:33 pm

           Your'e right weka. Got a fairly busy week coming up but will give it some thought. The more people who make complaints the better.

           There is some very good comments here I could incorporate into a complaint.
           • weka 1.4.1.1.1.1

             19 February 2023 at 8:33 pm

             👍😎
   • Incognito 1.5

     19 February 2023 at 9:30 pm

     David Seymour and his merry band of ACToids opposed adjournment of Parliament and also trivialised a major event unfolding in New Zealand. This is so much more than (just!) being contrarian; this is deliberate antagonism against the state fulfilling its role & duty to look after its citizens. In case, the hologram doesn’t realise it, the PM and MPs cannot be in 2 places at the same time. In any case, the triviality of David Seymour was pointed out in Yesterdaze.

     https://www.newsroom.co.nz/comment/yesterdaze-nows-not-the-time-david
     • Mike the Lefty 1.5.1

       20 February 2023 at 1:12 pm

       Yeah I thought Seymour's political posturing was downright disgusting, shows what ACT really feel about people in need.
2. Reality 2

   19 February 2023 at 10:29 am

   Great to at last see an article exposing these ZB types who seem unable to show empathy, sympathy, understanding and concern for what is happening to others. How dare they close schools, how dare Kate Hawkesbury not be able to get her hair done during lockdown. How dare they be inconvenienced in any way. What thoroughly selfish, nasty people they are together with the talkback callers who jump on their bandwagon.
   • Anne 2.1

     19 February 2023 at 11:16 am

     Final words from RNZ article:

     Education is a wonderful thing. But perhaps it’s not our students who most need to sit down and take on board some information from people better informed than they are.

     My bold.

     That is the crux of the ZB problem. They are ignorant. They are entitled. They are excellent examples of the Dunning Kruger Effect:

     https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.1

       19 February 2023 at 11:35 am

       Didnt see your reply/useage of same : ) Anyway

       "What message does this send to our children? Yet again their education must be sacrificed for the greater good, be it Covid, be it floods, be it cyclones, there are greater priorities than education."

       Her talkback caller Tim couldn't have agreed more.

       "The morons plead it's for the health and safety of our little poppets," he said. "What are they going to do next: say that counselling's available because we know your children will be very anxious about all the water."

       "Thank you Tim," replied Woodham.

       Surely..not?

       On Sunday afternoon, Newstalk ZB’s Tim Beveridge admonished the media for being what he saw as a bit over-the-top about the threat posed by Cyclone Gabrielle.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018878253/radio-hosts-fixate-on-schools-closing-as-gabrielle-closed-in

       Calling ..each other? Then again…..your link might well cover : )
3. Reality 3

   19 February 2023 at 12:18 pm

   These ZB hosts have no qualifications or experience in any specific field to entitle them to make any judgements on complex issues like cyclones, Covid and other crises. All they have is an inflated opinion of themselves and think they know best.

   Apparently Mike Hosking has been making snide comments about our new PM. Does he ever show any balance by highlighting Luxon's mumbles and stumbles and having to clarify what he actually meant?
4. joe90 4

   19 February 2023 at 12:20 pm

   More bone-headed fuckwittery cooked up by ‘Murica’s lunatic right radio; DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion, will endanger lives.

   https://twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1626649638395645985
5. weka 5

   19 February 2023 at 12:31 pm

   Lefties trying to give away the right to occupy. Again.

   https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1627062533805989888
   • Red Blooded One 5.1

     19 February 2023 at 2:08 pm

     Which are you talking about, protest or occupation? Conflating the two is misleading. From what I could see protest is, and was welcome, occupation was not and ended in the same way as Bastion Point, for example.I don’t think the Wellington Occupation was a Left/Right issue, despite it being hyped up by some Far Right operatives, there were plenty of Lefties there too.
     • weka 5.1.1

       19 February 2023 at 2:44 pm

       I'm saying that occupation is a legitimate form of protest (even when if breaks laws). The problem with VFF was their behaviour, not that they occupied parliament grounds. Lefties arguing that the occupation was illegal and wasn't legitimate protest is an own goal, because this will be used against us.

       I didn't make a comment about VFF being left or right.

       There are big differences in tolerance of occupation between the 70s and now. Occupy showed us that, those occupations went on for a long time. Bastion Point lasted a very long time. Occupations that are illegal will eventually lead to eviction, that doesn't make the occupation an illegitimate form of protest.
       • Red Blooded One 5.1.1.1

         19 February 2023 at 3:20 pm

         My understanding is the Occupation became illegal when the Government issued trespass notices. At that point it was no longer a legitimate Protest but an Illegal Occupation. I didn't mention VFF so not sure your point there. My reference to the Left/Right issue was based on your quote from the Twitter feed… "Lefties, if you argue against the right to protest at parliament, then the right will do the same to left wing protest, including climate action. "

         I'm happy to agree to disagree Weka, as you and I have history to being out of step with each other and I'm sure neither of us will want to go around in circles. Have a happy day.
         • weka 5.1.1.1.1

           19 February 2023 at 3:25 pm

           disagreement doesn't bother me, misunderstanding does. My memory is that we disagree on somethings and agree on others.

           My understanding is the Occupation became illegal when the Government issued trespass notices. At that point it was no longer a legitimate Protest but an Illegal Occupation.

           This cedes occupation as protest to the whim of whichever government is in power at the time.

           The protest occupied parliament grounds from day 1. At some point they were trespassed, which made the occupation illegal. But that doesn't make a protest illegitimate, it just means the state is using what tools it has to stop the protest.

           Plenty of protests, effective, progressive protests, are (ethically and morally) legitimate even while they are technically illegal.

           If we let legal be the deciding line, then governments will just make more protest illegal as they need to. This is happening in the UK and Oz.

           I didn't mention VFF so not sure your point there.

           I'm just using VFF as shorthand because I can't be bothered typing out the protest at parliament each time.

           My reference to the Left/Right issue was based on your quote from the Twitter feed… "Lefties, if you argue against the right to protest at parliament, then the right will do the same to left wing protest, including climate action. "

           Yes, I was referring to lefties today arguing against occupation as a legitimate form of protest. I wasn't saying the protest at parliament was left or right.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1

             19 February 2023 at 3:36 pm

             to clarify further, the things that made the protest illegitimate were the death threats, the intention to insurrection, the lack of care around public health and covid, and the inability or unwillingness of those at the protest to address those issues.

             But occupation itself is not an illegitimate form of protest.
         • Craig H 5.1.1.1.2

           20 February 2023 at 12:20 am

           The Government issued nothing, the Speaker did in his capacity as legislated head of the Parliamentary precinct.
       • Incognito 5.1.1.2

         19 February 2023 at 3:40 pm

         How could the authorities and the public separate the legitimate protestors & protest from VFF and its nefarious agenda & motives? Was VFF hiding in the shadows or were they pulling strings behind the curtain and how could we, as outsiders, tell? Did the protestors not realise that VFF was ‘present’ and had coat-tailed into their cause & camp, were they happy to have VFF’s ‘support’, or not unhappy enough to drive them out?

         I think many people reacted to the images they saw broadcast by MSM and SM in the same way they respond to ram raids, for example. It is superficial, reflexive, irrational, and judgemental. Even the politicians were none the wiser, it seems judging by their rather ill-considered actions that were ineffective at best and counter-productive at worst (aka they backfired). On the other hand, the PM and Michael Wood seemed have at least an inkling (?) of what was going on and was this best on their personal ‘intuition’ and sensitive ‘antennas’ or on more specific intelligence? If the latter, this was poorly communicated and shared with the general public who were watching the events unfolding on their screens and growing astonishment and then anger.

         BTW, I realise there may not be no clear precise answers to those and many other questions, but this doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be asked at all, i.e. how can we separate the wheat from the chaff and who decides?
         • weka 5.1.1.2.1

           19 February 2023 at 8:30 pm

           this far out, I think the protest lost the right to be respected when the good people failed to stand up and separate themselves from people making death and insurrection threats, and then later denied that those even happened.

           The right to protest still existed despite that, because it's a fundamental principle in democracy. My argument here is mainly that progressives don't establish a narrative of occupation being wrong and illegitimate.
         • weka 5.1.1.2.2

           19 February 2023 at 8:32 pm

           lots of people I know irl are into VFF. Because they were given a voice and a place to belong when they felt abandoned by the government. They are generally good people, a world apart from the leaders and the far right organisers. So I don't see VFF as inherently bad. It's a very difficult social and political dynamic.

           I agree the questions need to be asked even if we don't have any clear immediate answers.
           • Incognito 5.1.1.2.2.1

             19 February 2023 at 8:48 pm

             I agree that some things may not be inherently bad as such, i.e., intrinsically evil, but we can and must judge those things on their consequences even without (fully) knowing the intentions and motivations behind them, if any. Once protestors/demonstrators lose sight of their cause it should send a signal to pause and take stock of what they are doing and whether they are making any progress in achieving it or at least in drawing attention to their original cause. VFF is nothing but a handful of very disgruntled people with an axe to grind without the support of people (not to mention financial support). One cannot ‘blame’ people for being attracted to VFF and going along for the ride with it for some time but it seems that VFF is more than a protest movement and has become a new spiritual home for those lost souls where they can connect and re-root themselves. The VFF attempts in the recent Local Elections give rise for concern.
   • Nic the NZer 5.2

     20 February 2023 at 8:30 am

     As you highlight the occupation was made illegal via trespass notices, almost immediately. Occupying is not a right, its a usually illegal act of protest.

     And of course twitter comments don't in any way give up the legitimacy of occupation for the right cause. Its simply not something you can collectively give away.
     • weka 5.2.1

       20 February 2023 at 9:06 am

       It's not twitter comments, it's the narrative that is being established and how that influences the overton window over time. The UK government is trying to lessen protest rights, I can see Nact doing that when we are deeper in the climate/ecology crises. If half the left believes that occupation is not a legitimate form of protest then it will be easier for Nact to do that.
       • weka 5.2.1.1

         20 February 2023 at 9:08 am

         I guess it's not such a surprise, but there are quite a few lefties who do appear to think that the right to protest is not inherent but is dependent upon the worthiness of one's cause. That's mindblowing and suggests a distorted view of democracy.
         • Nic the NZer 5.2.1.1.1

           20 February 2023 at 7:26 pm

           Depends what is meant by a right to protest. I don't think anybody should be locked up for protesting ever. But on the other hand advocating for the worst case covid scenarios to become govt policy is not a valid cause.
6. The Fairy Godmother 6

   19 February 2023 at 7:07 pm

   just wondering why the Standard isnt working properly on my mobile. Just goes to the version 4 days agao and I cant comment.
   • Brigitte 6.1

     19 February 2023 at 7:16 pm

     I had the same problem. I tried a different browser which still didn't work but gave me a message saying that the website (The Standard) wasn't compatible with (my version of) Android.
     • The Fairy Godmother 6.1.1

       19 February 2023 at 7:50 pm

       That could be it. My mobile is synced with my laptop and that was doing the same but I managed to sort it by making a comment which I deleted then I could access the latest version.
7. joe90 7

   19 February 2023 at 8:15 pm

   Meanwhile, in Gilead….

   The Republican governor of Virginia, Glenn Youngkin, appears to have thwarted an attempt to stop law enforcement obtaining menstrual histories of women in the state.

   A bill passed in the Democratic-led state senate, and supported by half the chamber’s Republicans, would have banned search warrants for menstrual data stored in tracking apps on mobile phones or other electronic devices.

   Advocates feared private health information could be used in prosecutions for abortion law violations, after a US supreme court ruling last summer overturned federal protections for the procedure.

   But Youngkin, who has pushed for a 15-week abortion ban to mirror similar measures in several Republican-controlled states, essentially killed the bill through a procedural move in a subcommittee of the Republican-controlled House.

   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/16/virginia-governor-glenn-youngkin-extreme-bill-police-menstrual-histories
8. Shanreagh 8

   19 February 2023 at 10:27 pm

   Jolene

   A duet with Dolly Parton and Olivia Newton John.

   Two great troopers singing together. The voices meld well when needed and carry a descant when needed.
9. Mike the Lefty 9

   20 February 2023 at 1:13 pm

   Was The Standard website down the last couple of days?
10. Macro 10

    20 February 2023 at 4:27 pm

    @lprent.

    My android phone running Chrome now receiving all updated pages 🙂

    Thanks for your continued work.

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