Open mike 20/05/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 20th, 2024 - 77 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

77 comments on “Open mike 20/05/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Jimmy 1
    20 May 2024 at 8:18 am

    "She has previously pleaded not guilty to careless driving and failing to accompany police."

    I find it very amusing that you can plead not guilty to careless driving, when you have just driven in to a parked vehicle and your vehicle is smashed up in the middle of the road.

    Kiri Allan to go on trial this week for crash, refusing to accompany police – NZ Herald

    • David 1.1
      20 May 2024 at 10:31 am

      It’s called not taking accountability. She believes that the rules don’t apply to her, and It’s all someone else’s fault.

      A true leader should accept responsibility and be accountable for their actions and mistakes and in this case plead guilty and place themselves at the mercy of the court.

      Lessor individuals will blame everyone other than themselves.

    • Kay 1.2
      20 May 2024 at 10:59 am

      Did you read further down?

      Allan earlier said she had pleaded not guilty to the charge of failing to accompany a police officer to test what she saw as a grey area “based on the legal principle that all New Zealanders are entitled to consult with a lawyer”.

      So testing a point of law, or trying to get off on a technicality?

      • David 1.2.1
        20 May 2024 at 12:30 pm

        She is “taking the piss”. The tactic she is using is used by low profile lawyers and wealthy upper middle class people to legally side step the consequences of driving over the alcohol limit, crashing vehicle, and leaving the scene of an accident. She may have a point, under a strict black & white interpretation of the law. Only the powerful and privileged can do what she is doing.

    • Mike the Lefty 1.3
      20 May 2024 at 12:31 pm

      It obviously doesn't take much to amuse you Jimmy boy!

      "Going on trial" is a more dramatic way of describing appearing in court on a charge, but sounds so much juicier, like it was for murder instead of just a traffic offence.

      Another item in the Herald's Green smear campaign to excite you.

      • Jimmy 1.3.1
        20 May 2024 at 1:59 pm

        If she pleads guilty I guess they would more likely say "appearing in court" whereas she will now be on trial to decide whether she is guilty or not guilty. And that was her choice not to plead guilty.

      • adam 1.3.2
        20 May 2024 at 6:07 pm

        Come on Mike the lefty, this is nu zealand mate – where punching down at women is a national sport.

  2. Phillip ure 2
    20 May 2024 at 8:58 am

    A while back I said I had heard a report that there are 100,000 homeless in NZ .

    ..this was questioned at the time..

    ..but the oecd have just reported that there are indeed 100,000 homeless in NZ ..

    ..a figure that should make politicians of most stripes hang their heads in shame ..

    ..as they are the ones who have done this to us..

    So..a pox on most of them…!

    • Phillip ure 2.1
      20 May 2024 at 9:34 am

      ..and this all done in the name of that nasty wrinkle in capitalism..

      ..namely neoliberal-incrementalism.

      ..and nothing will change…until that changes..

      • Michael Scott 2.1.1
        20 May 2024 at 10:30 am

        If not neoliberal capitalism then what?

        We need capitalism to generate wealth and socialism to distribute wealth.

        If we want to eliminate poverty our goal should be to create as much wealth as possible for as many as possible.

        • Phillip ure 2.1.1.1
          20 May 2024 at 10:54 am

          It's called democratic socialism..

          Ii doesn't have to mean the death of capitalism..

          It is the model used by those countries that don't have wholesale homelessness/poverty ..

          Where the state has in place strong social/financial support for all citizens…

          ..and whose citizens are generally reported as the happiest on the planet ..

          ..those in straightened circumstances are not just left to rot…(..ask those 100,000 homeless just how that feels..)

          ..and I hear you asking: how is all this paid for…?

          The answer would be to look to the policies on such matters in those 'happy' countries..

          And inevitably the wealthy in those countries pay a higher level of tax..than they do here ..

          (..and this where the conversation grinds to a halt for the haves here.. ain't no way they are going to do that..).

          ..and funny story .!…I have seen polling of those haves in those happy countries…and they seem ok with paying higher taxes ..(for the social cohesion…and the pride they feel in living in a country that cares for all..)

          ..so.. it's called democratic socialism…and it used to be what labour were all about ..

          ..they seem to have got lost somewhere along the way..,)

          And thanks for asking..!

          • Michael Scott 2.1.1.1.1
            20 May 2024 at 11:02 am

            This is exactly what the Green Party and TPM are proposing isn't it?

            • Phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1.1
              20 May 2024 at 11:18 am

              I haven't looked into their policies…so I can't answer that for you ..

              ..but my understanding is that they will be leaning that way..

              And this is why Labour's re-evaluation (as promised by hipkins) is so important ..

              ..and why they have to land much closer to greens/tpm…than they are now ..

              ..this so that the three parties on the left can present coherent/unified plans for the changes we so need..

              This is the only way this coalition of clowns will be held to one term ..

              • Traveller …
                20 May 2024 at 11:49 am

                The problem with that, Phillip (I would argue it's just as well), is that there is no evidence of any appetite amongst the majority of voters for the sort of policies that would make for a unified platform between those parties.

                Jacinda Ardern knew that when she made the captains call on CGT (because "so many Kiwis were against one." PM Jacinda Ardern has ruled out implementing a Capital Gains Tax while she is at the helm of Labour – NZ Herald).)

                Chris Hipkins knew that when he made his own 'captains call' in July 2023 (Hipkins rules out capital gains tax, wealth tax if Labour re-elected | RNZ News).

                And therein lies Labour's problem – it does matter what Labour come up with in terms of policy on CGT or Wealth Taxes, they can't be trusted to see it through into policy. As Audrey Young wrote:

                It was only 18 months ago that it was so important to her that she was willing to have the Tax Working Group findings implemented this term, rather than the more cautious approach of her predecessor, Andrew Little.

                Audrey Young: Three reasons Jacinda Ardern has ruled out even campaigning on a capital gains tax – NZ Herald

                • Phillip ure …
                  20 May 2024 at 12:15 pm

                  My understanding is that polling has shown a (narrow) majority favour a CGT…

                  So..if argued coherently..

                  I would also lean towards more less personal taxes ..

                  I don't think most would mind soaking the richest a bit…(Just to bring them in line with those happy countries)

                  So there's that..and then financial transaction taxes are a dispassionate revenue raisers…

                  ..and land taxes etc ..

                  As I said ..we just need to look to those happy countries that don't have the supperating sores of widespread homelessness/child poverty etc etc ..

                  And follow the formula they use…

                  (No hand-wringing needed..)

                  • Traveller …
                    20 May 2024 at 3:11 pm

                    My understanding is that polling has shown a (narrow) majority favour a CGT…

                    Well we haven't had a single Labour leader follow through with one.

                • Descendant Of Smith …
                  20 May 2024 at 1:09 pm

                  The problem with that, Phillip (I would argue it's just as well), is that there is no evidence of any appetite amongst the majority of voters for the sort of policies that would make for a unified platform between those parties.

                  There was a point in time where she had great support from voters to improve social polices which was when the WEAG report came out. They could have easily implemented the whole lot i.e. done what they said they were going to.

                  Their absolute failure was to not do it.

            • Michael Scott 2.1.1.1.1.2
              20 May 2024 at 12:05 pm

              Philip you can forget Labour. If you want what higher taxes to support the poor then the Greens and TPM are your options.

              In NZ there's barely daylight between Labour and National as they both need to lavish goodies on the voting centre that swing elections.

              • Phillip ure …
                20 May 2024 at 12:19 pm

                I agree that currently and in the recent past..labour are slavish adherents to neoliberal incrementalism ..

                This is what they have to change…for the rest of us to be in any hope of real change to the policies that have got us to where we are now ..

          • Traveller 2.1.1.1.2
            20 May 2024 at 11:36 am

            Democratic Socialism is defined as:

            "…a socialist economy where production and wealth are collectively owned, but the country has a democratic system of government."

            Democratic Socialist Countries 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)

            It would seem to me to be incompatible with free market capitalism.

            I think the term you may be looking for is 'Social Democracy', which is defined (same link) as:

            "…a mostly capitalistic economy (i.e.: a less-regulated market and fewer rules against private ownership of land, utilities, etc.), but also with large-scale social welfare programs"

            NZ could be considered a social democracy, with an economy that leans towards free market, working alongside "large-scale social welfare programs."

            • Michael Scott 2.1.1.1.2.1
              20 May 2024 at 1:03 pm

              Thanks Traveller for outlining the difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy.

              I am enjoying -for the first time in my life- having time to read and learn and think about politics and the importance of the choices each of us make for NZ.

              When I first found this blog I avidly read anything the contributor Red Logix published and learned so much from him. Where has he gone?

              Personally I'm trying to work out my place on the political spectrum.

        • Corey 2.1.1.2
          20 May 2024 at 11:38 am

          Keynesian state capitalism. The kind that FDR, Michael Joseph Savage and co used to bring the world out of the great depression with universalist economic programs.

          It is the only economic model that has ever brought people out of poverty, for the the last twenty years it's brought hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty and created amazing infrastructure, the kind of infrastructure the west used to build.

          I applaud you for defending neoliberalism by it's name because most Labour supporters refuse to accept that's what they support.

          Neoliberalism doesn't generate wealth, is incapable of building infrastructure and only destabilizes and impoverishes societies that implement it.

          The most popular and enduring policies in this country are all Keynesian universalist economic programs like public Healthcare, welfare, pensions and state housing.

          • Descendant Of Smith 2.1.1.2.1
            20 May 2024 at 1:04 pm

            large-scale social welfare programs.

            We used to have these:

            Universal family benefit
            Full employment via the government picking up those who the private sector could and would not employed eg youth and those with war injuries and disabilities
            State housing for life including the ability to buy your state house
            Free secular education where private and religious schools which were set up in opposition to secular state education had to fund themselves
            Tax rebates for non-working spouses
            Tax rebates for life insurance
            pensions at 60
            8 hour working day 40 hour working week
            weekends for families
            time and a half and double time

            Now we have a neo-liberal austerity welfare system for the poor and a massive wealthy trickle up welfare system for the well-off – massive tax cuts, no death duties, low tax rates, accommodation supplements, tax rebates for interest on rental properties, no capital gains tax, foreign trusts. no redundancies in contracts, no annual pay increases in contracts, 90 day trials, seven days a week trading, homelessness…………

            And still the well-off moan and complain they are hard done by.

            The working class and the sole parents and the disability community and the poor and the addicted have made a lot of sacrifices for the rich to be richer…..

    • Kay 2.2
      20 May 2024 at 9:40 am

      But haven't you heard Phillip? Homeless people have to turn to crime in order to survive, which ultimately means more bodies for those brand new private prison beds, ie profit.

      Of course, there does have to be enough well-paid police to catch said nasty criminals, so that could be a spanner in the cunning plan…

      /s

      • Phillip ure 2.2.1
        20 May 2024 at 11:34 am

        There is another aspect to the homeless that should be understood by the rest of NZ ..

        Namely..that each of those homeless you see sleeping rough..in cars/caravans/w.h.y….

        ..they deserve your respect .

        ..'cos each of those homeless..on paper.. would be eligible for emergency housing ..in motels ..that costs taxpayers approx 2 grand a week…about $100,000 a year..

        So..any random group of ten homeless .. getting by as best they can..those ten save the taxpayers a million dollars a year…

        (So how about showing them some respect for that..?..eh .?)

        And if you multiply out how much those 100,000 homeless save the taxpayers…by not claiming for emergency housing..the figure is eye-watering…

        And while we are at it ..in the short term..how about all other towns in NZ do as Kaitaia does ..and provide somewhere in their town..where the homeless there/passing through..have somewhere to get a hot shower ..

        Is that really too much to ask…?

        • Michael Scott 2.2.1.1
          20 May 2024 at 12:31 pm

          There is a great charity called Orange Sky that offer free hot showers and free laundry to anyone. They operate in the major towns and are keen to expand. You can donate online or join them and give some time to talk and maybe help those who are doing it hard.. https://orangesky.org.nz/locations/

          • Phillip ure 2.2.1.1.1
            20 May 2024 at 3:15 pm

            I tried approaching my local community board..and made a half hour presentation to them on just that subject…

            They seem to agree with me ..and sent the idea thru to Auckland City council ..

            There was where it died ..

            A councillor told me that any ideas like that had to go thru a special group in council…tasked with caring for the homeless….

            And their response was that they could only approve new housing for the homeless…so therefore my call for that basic dignity was dead in the water….

            That is how they roll …

            • Phillip ure 2.2.1.1.1.1
              20 May 2024 at 3:27 pm

              And as for orange sky..good on them…

              ..but they are only in one part of the four main centres ..+ Hamilton..

              Whereas councils all over the land who could reconfigure something they already have…that would be as cheap as chips to do ..they just don't give a fuck..

              They just want the homeless to go somewhere else..

              • Michael Scott …
                20 May 2024 at 3:36 pm

                Orange Sky are in Wgton, Porirua, Christchurch and Auckland at present.

                • Phillip ure …
                  20 May 2024 at 3:41 pm

                  So..just a dribble in the shower of need…eh..?

                  • Phillip ure …
                    20 May 2024 at 4:16 pm

                    We have four times the rate of homelessness than there is in Australia…

                    And this after six years of a labour government…

                    W t.f..!…eh .?

                    And labour ain’t lost ..eh..?

                    ..have they no fucken shame..

                    ..over what they have wrought…?

                    • Michael Scott …
                      20 May 2024 at 5:57 pm

                      Poverty is the hardest problem.

                      Jacinda Ardern said the reason she got into politics was “to achieve her goal of eradicating child poverty in NZ for good.”

                      Her new government immediately allocated billions of dollars to begin the task with the promise of more to come.

                      Today we have more children in poverty than in 2017.

                      Much more homelessness than in 2017.

                      Beneficiaries entirely dependent on the government for their income have increased by 35% in the past 6 years.

                      There were 5000 families in sufficient poverty to qualify for state housing list status in 2018.

                      In 2023 this has ballooned to 25,000. That's a 500% increase.

                      Today we have more than 25% of the nation’s school children living in households entirely dependent upon welfare, the vast majority in single parent homes.

                      Which is to say they are living in relative poverty, and subject to all of the negative social indicators that infers – substance abuse, violence, ram raids,familial dysfunction, educational failure and underemployment.

                      I don't think more money solves the problem.

                    • Phillip ure []
                      20 May 2024 at 6:33 pm

                      @ m.scott…

                      You seem to be confusing what ardern promised to do..

                      ..with what she actually did…

                      ..there is a huge gulf between the two…

                      ..and your suggestions that more money wouldn't help ..

                      ..is..to be fair..ludicrous…

                    • gsays …
                      20 May 2024 at 6:15 pm

                      @ Michael and Phil, there is plenty enough money, the last few governments have been to gutless and lacking in imagination to redistribute it. Witness banking profits as an example.

                      This squabbling over GST, CGT, Wealth Tax etc can be put to bed/retired with the implementation of a Financial Transaction Tax/Robin Hood tax/Hone tax.

                      Every time a $ changes hands a low % is paid. Brings in all those deals that currently don't get taxed.

                      Here is Bill Nighy as a bankster in an explainer.

                    • Michael Scott …
                      20 May 2024 at 7:08 pm

                      Do you think that if everyone had the right to a warm home, free transport, good nutrition, free healthcare and education that poverty would be eliminated?

                      The Labour threw billions at the problem

                      I don't think more money would fix things. Prisoners get all of this.

                      I think people need to get out of bed because they have family and societal responsibilities. We need to work out the role of the state and the responsibility of the individual.

                      What type of people would inhabit our society if struggle was eliminated. If everyone could take the free bus who would pay for the gas?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      20 May 2024 at 7:16 pm

                      I don’t think more money would fix things.

                      More money can't fix the poverty problem? Phew, that's a relief!

                      But can less money result in, if not poverty then equally dire outcomes? Possibly, judging by how many wealthy Kiwis resist being parted from it with every fibre of their being.

                      Optics and illusions in politics [16 March 2024]
                      There must have been at least some degree of political discomfort about a tax break for landlords coming when so many New Zealanders who don’t own rental properties are “doing it tough”, as Prime Minister Christopher Luxon likes to say. It didn’t help that it came just days after a previous optical failure. That was when Luxon was tangled up in an entirely foreseeable story about claiming a $52,000 accommodation allowance rather than staying in Premier House, in order to live instead in his own mortgage-free Wellington apartment.

                      Luxon kept repeating that he was “entitled” to the allowance until he saw the light. “Entitled” proved to be an unfortunate choice of word.

                      Tbh, I reckon this cartoon captures just how much of a priority poverty is for our CoC govt, which is implementing welfare for the wealthy, while the ‘plebs’ face austerity – NAct MPs are waging war on the poor, rather than on poverty. I could be wrong – time will tell.

                      This government has taken their inspiration from the U.K. and Liz Truss. If we get a decade of these plonkers we will be basically where the U.K. is now after a decade of stagnant wages and crumbling public services.

                      Not sure they gonna need a decade. They skipped right past Cameron and potentially even Johnson and May and landed on Truss crossed with Sunak.

                      They are speed running 12 years of Tory idiocy

    • Incognito 2.3
      20 May 2024 at 6:14 pm

      ..this was questioned at the time..

      Not quite; you were confused about KiwiBuild (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-05-2024/#comment-1999403). You then went on to pull something from your notoriously unreliable memory on homeless numbers in NZ without providing any link sad

      And here again you mention some reporting of a number without providing a link angry

  3. I Feel Love 3
    20 May 2024 at 10:37 am

    Live action Do Not Feed The Troll. In this video GB News & Suella Braverman get snubbed by protestors. Rather brilliant really & leaves the RW utterly bewildered.

    • Subliminal 3.1
      20 May 2024 at 10:57 am

      Thats brilliant! If they can't yet understand genocide then it's definitely pointless talking to them

    • Traveller 3.2
      20 May 2024 at 11:01 am

      Perhaps the reason they didn't answer her was because they couldn't. There are many videos on line of these 'activists' being asked what they are protesting about, and some of them frankly don't have a clue.

      • I Feel Love 3.2.1
        20 May 2024 at 11:05 am

        lol ok “chief”.

        • I Feel Love 3.2.1.1
          20 May 2024 at 11:40 am

          This is the kind of thing the 'activists' are protesting,

          & GB News or Braverman were not wanting to 'engage' the 'activists' (which is the point of the 'silent protest'). An effective counter for trolls online & clearly IRL too!

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.2.2
        20 May 2024 at 4:06 pm

        … and some of them frankly don't have a clue.

        So true – of any sizeable (non/anti-)activist/progressive/regressive/neutral group.

        Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed. – Einstein

        https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/israel-hamas-war-netanyahu-rafah-invasion-day-after-plan-20240518.html

        • Traveller 3.2.2.1
          20 May 2024 at 5:20 pm

          The ignorance is widespread, Drowsy, and has been called out by Gazan's living in this hell, as well as others.

          Here's two brief extracts from Message From a Gazan to Campus Protesters: You're Hurting the Palestinian Cause | Opinion (newsweek.com) that will put this in perspective:

          You know what would help the Palestinians in Gaza? Condemning Hamas' atrocities. Instead, the protesters routinely chant their desire to "Globalize the Intifada." Apparently they do not realize that the Intifadas were disastrous for both Palestinians and Israelis, just as October 7 has been devastating for the people of Gaza.

          …and…

          I saw the LGBTQ flag frequently flown among people chanting lines from Hamas's charter, and I initially wanted to educate them, to warn them that the group they are honoring would most likely toss them from the top of a building or murder them like they did to Mahmoud Ishtiwi, a Hamas commander accused of homosexuality. Hamas harasses women who don't cover their heads. Hamas tortures those who demonstrate against their authoritarian rule, as they did me when I protested.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 3.2.2.1.1
            20 May 2024 at 5:37 pm

            You know what would help the Palestinians in Gaza? Condemning Hamas' atrocities.

            If the protesters cared about Palestinians, they would have one central demand: Hamas must surrender, because we have all suffered from Hamas and can no longer live under the rule of a terrorist group.

            “Surrender“? Isn’t the IDF's mission to 'eliminate' Hamas?
            It would be interesting to tease out how "condemning Hamas atrocities" might help Palestinians in Gaza.

            The Dangers of an Ungovernable Gaza [20 May 2024]
            Without Basic Postwar Stability, “the Day After” Might Never Arrive

            It’s a time for choosing [23 Oct 2023]
            The humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in Gaza requires each of us to make a choice.
            Which leads me, finally, to the choice the mostly unrepentant keyboard cavalry who are happily saddling up once more – in derivative columns and hyperbolic appearances on TV – made to side with their home team’s, by now, familiar mantra: Kill first, think later.

  4. Kay 4
    20 May 2024 at 11:55 am

    Despite the fact the UK is imploding on a number of levels, it's still cheaper to own a house, for those who have the means. $NZD776,867 average price vs $930,1495 here.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/20/average-british-house-price-record-high-375000

    But hey, at least their renters are suffering just as much as ours.

  5. Joe90 5
    20 May 2024 at 2:58 pm

    Celebrations in Syria and Iraq, too.

    @yzimng2

    Celebratory fireworks in Iran after Ebrahim Raisi's death. Iranians are overjoyed at the death of the Butcher of Tehran.

    https://x.com/yzimng2/status/1792347584365039691

    • adam 5.1
      20 May 2024 at 6:02 pm

      Looks like the top two of the theocracy are both dead. Interesting power struggles ahead in Iran.

  6. Joe90 6
    20 May 2024 at 3:52 pm

    Lock him up.

    Shareholders of cybersecurity vendor Palo Alto Networks take legal action against director John Key and others, alleging insider trading

    John Key, the former prime minister of New Zealand, is being sued by the shareholders of Palo Alto Networks (PAN) for alleged insider trading, along with other members of the well-known cybersecurity vendor's management team and board of directors. Key is a PAN director.

    https://www.interest.co.nz/technology/127839/shareholders-cybersecurity-vendor-palo-alto-networks-take-legal-action-against

    • Traveller 6.1
      20 May 2024 at 5:28 pm

      Do you think it would be a good idea to have the trial first?

    • AB 6.2
      20 May 2024 at 5:38 pm

      Looks like a civil case to me, so no chance of that I would have thought. Unless "having breached the US Exchange Act" (from your link) is both true and means something criminal. So we're not going to get the grim pleasure of Luxon having to agree to Key's extradition to what is ironically his true spiritual and moral home.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.