Open mike 20/06/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 20th, 2019 - 86 comments
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86 comments on “Open mike 20/06/2019 ”

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  1. CHCoff 1
    20 June 2019 at 7:15 am

    Another great job by the Black Caps at the cricket world cup international stage for NZ

    Cricket was the winner (again)

    Black Caps were the the winners on the day (again)

    Win Win the NZ way!

    • Chris T 1.1
      20 June 2019 at 7:40 am

      Impressive eh

      Pretty much guaranteeing finals place, while simultaneously taking out the Saffers.

    • The Al1en 1.2
      20 June 2019 at 10:50 am

      Shame he didn't walk when he bottom edged Tahir. It could well have changed the outcome of the match.

      A bit of a fraud to laud winning “the NZ way” when the skipper cheated.

        • The Al1en 1.2.1.1
          20 June 2019 at 11:12 am

          I think anyone who has ever batted before knows when you nick one, and sure as eggs, he would have done here.

          https://twitter.com/PaulAdams39/status/1141423388453494784/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1141423388453494784&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzherald.co.nz%2Fsport%2Fnews%2Farticle.cfm%3Fc_id%3D4%26objectid%3D12242107

          Fair enough, he got away with it, but lets keep all the win the NZ way for the fantasy leagues.

          • mauī 1.2.1.1.2
            20 June 2019 at 1:11 pm

            Part of the game, you have to be given out. Similar to going down with a broken leg in football at the slightest touch. You use the rules to your best advantage.

            • The Al1en 1.2.1.1.2.1
              20 June 2019 at 1:50 pm

              Yeah, it's not like that at all. Shite analogy. Ever heard the expression 'it's just not cricket'. It's been said for a reason, and that reason is honesty and integrity by the players.

              Koli walked for India and he didn't even hit it, he just thought he did, which is a perfect example of how the game should be played. For me, Kane let himself down here, but they won, so all good then.

              • Muttonbird …
                20 June 2019 at 1:59 pm

                There was no appeal and I don't think it's entirely true that you know you've nicked one.

                What is true is that neither bowler nor keeper appealed so they was both sure it wasn't out.

                Not sure Williamson could do much else in that situation.

              • Kevin …
                20 June 2019 at 3:05 pm

                I'm sure he will take your concern on board.

              • mauī …
                20 June 2019 at 5:29 pm

                Sorry the analogy is not up to your "Kohli and I would have walked" standards. Here's a few more examples, when batsmen are run out they usually know they're short. No need for the 3rd umpire then eh, most should be walking of their own admission, yet that's the exception. Then there's the no ball check when people get out. Why do batsmen wait on the field for the TV no ball check. Not in the spirit of the game for sure.

                • The Al1en …
                  20 June 2019 at 5:45 pm

                  No, that's another dud example. After a run out, a batsman who knows they're short will typically keep going to the changing room. Unless it's a genuine 50/50, an umpire will often refer, just to be sure. A quite valid reason for the third umpire's involvement. Batsmen or women, will wait if the umpire decides to check a no ball, though this isn't a team review, and batters have been called back from the sheds before to resume an innings.

                  Definitely nothing like a footballer faking a broken leg to con a ref.

                  • mauī …
                    20 June 2019 at 6:28 pm

                    We're possibly watching different games… Hardly any international batsmen keep going to the changing room unless it's obvious and they're more than a metre short. Most wait on the pitch for the 3rd umpire replay to be shown that they're out, and most runouts are sent to the 3rd umpire because the onfield umpires are terrified of making the wrong decision. The game relies on the 3rd umpire so much now and that backs up the idea that players are not proactive in giving themselves out. Like I said when running in cricket you usually know when you're short of ground even if it's a close one.

                    • The Al1en …
                      20 June 2019 at 6:49 pm

                      Your first point "Hardly any international batsmen keep going to the changing room unless it's obvious " backs up what I wrote "a batsman who knows they're short will typically keep going to the changing room".

                      Your second point "most runouts are sent to the 3rd umpire because the onfield umpires are terrified of making the wrong decision" is almost exactly the same as my "Unless it's a genuine 50/50, an umpire will often refer, just to be sure", you just use impart a different reason for why.

      • Professor Longhair 1.2.2
        20 June 2019 at 2:41 pm

        A bit of a fraud to laud winning “the NZ way” when the skipper cheated.

        So how did New Zealand "win" the Rugby World Cup in 2011? Was there a cheating skipper involved in that shambles, or did our eyes deceive us?

      • CHCoff 1.2.3
        20 June 2019 at 8:21 pm

        Not really, the ball was not intentionally edged, didn't make the keeper and umpire ignore it, is commonplace for batsmen to not react to feint edges even when keepers do appeal, which in this case the keeper didn't.

        Which gets to the hub of it, it is not the batsman's place to do the job of the other team’s wicketkeeper and bowler communicating with each other, nothing un cricket about that at all.

        Further more, if a keeper takes a ground level catch, does the batsman then automatically walk, or wait to see the umpires decision if the ball hit the ground?

        • The Al1en 1.2.3.1
          20 June 2019 at 10:12 pm

          Look, he hit it, or ball hit bat, it doesn't matter. I believe he would have known and should have walked. As it was, he hit it and should have been out. The point is whether he knew.

          Any player I've ever played with and against has known when they've got an edge, I always have. Never once have I ever been given out thinking I didn't hit it.

  2. Sacha 2
    20 June 2019 at 7:55 am

    Fresh timeline of NZ women singers who cracked the Top 10 of the NZ singles & album charts from 1975-2005 is a window on our broader social history.

    https://www.audioculture.co.nz/scenes/new-zealand-women-in-the-nz-top-10

    • Peter 3.1
      20 June 2019 at 8:59 am

      When there are complex situations in complex environments with complex politics and agendas at play, I always say, "Believe Taliban commanders even if their stories don't match."

      • WeTheBleeple 3.1.1
        20 June 2019 at 9:03 am

        Absolutely, what would Taliban Commanders have to gain from sowing discord. They sound like real swell folk.

    • ianmac 3.2
      20 June 2019 at 9:26 am

      The basic claim that at least 6 unarmed civilians were killed still stands. Try reading the whole article Buster.

    • Anne 3.3
      20 June 2019 at 10:40 am

      Yeah, there were two of them. When they saw the helicopters they escaped without firing a shot. I gather one of them wasn't in the specific village (there are a cluster of small villages and they are referred to together as 'a village') but he was nearby and saw the action taking place.

      It makes no difference to the basic claim of the book "Hit and Run" which I have read from cover to cover:

      The NZ contingent – together with the American helicopters overhead – killed and injured villagers including a small child and failed to acknowledge their mistake. They see it as acceptable collateral damage I suppose.

      In times of hostilities most people understand mistakes can be made. The problem is, when the perpetrators don't believe they have to admit to them. Imo they are wrong. At no time is it acceptable not to own one's mistakes and then make it worse by indulging in cover-ups which is what the NZDF (and the Americans involved if the truth were known) tried to do.

    • Gabby 3.4
      20 June 2019 at 12:31 pm

      I find that highly believable Bluster.

    • Professor Longhair 3.5
      20 June 2019 at 2:43 pm

      ????

      Someone contact the insane asylum. There's a sub-moron loose.

  4. WeTheBleeple 4
    20 June 2019 at 9:20 am

    Joy Harjo – 1st Native American Poet Laureate:

    I must keep from breaking into the story by force
    for if I do I will find myself with a war club in my hand
    and the smoke of grief staggering toward the sun,
    your nation dead beside you.

    I keep walking away though it has been an eternity
    and from each drop of blood
    springs up sons and daughters, trees,
    a mountain of sorrows, of songs.

    I tell you this from the dusk of a small city in the north
    not far from the birthplace of cars and industry.
    Geese are returning to mate and crocuses have
    broken through the frozen earth.

    Soon they will come for me and I will make my stand
    before the jury of destiny. Yes, I will answer in the clatter
    of the new world, I have broken my addiction to war
    and desire. Yes, I will reply, I have buried the dead

    and made songs of the blood, the marrow.

  5. greywarshark 5
    20 June 2019 at 10:37 am

    NZ history. What are we! Review on Radionz of Jock Phillips historian and gives me a feeling of having had the journey to understand NZ history, it's the journey that many of us have done, and are still traipsing along in his steps.

    Jock Phillips: Making History

    No caption

    Photo: Victoria University of WellingtonNew Zealand.

    Historian Jock Phillips has made his career bringing history to life and convincing New Zealanders that our past has real value. He is former editor of the Online Encyclopedia Te Ara, served as government Chief Historian, was the founding director of the Stout Research Centre for New Zealand Studies, and was the conceptual leader for the history exhibitions at Te Papa, as well as publishing 15 books.

    Now he has turned his deep historical skills on himself in his memoir called "Making History". He tells Kathryn the awakening of New Zealanders to their history has been one of the great revolutions of our time.

    Note how Victoria Uni has decided to name itself now it has been talked down from calling itself 'Wellington'.

    Audio later. A good idea while writing on here to follow up on our history through Jock's writing. What are we trying to protect, maintain, advance, treasure, prioritise?

    Jock said for the purpose of learning history is to help interpret the world around you. Also lots of other interesting things to hear in this interview.

  6. PredictiveAnalysis 6
    20 June 2019 at 11:09 am

    Stand by for Borisovian Britain, something like medieval Rus.

  7. Ad 7
    20 June 2019 at 1:22 pm

    Good move by Minister Little to enable polling booths for voting in malls and supermarkets.

    Hopefully greater access gets us to 80%+ voting turnout.

    Good for our democracy.

    • Muttonbird 7.1
      20 June 2019 at 1:49 pm

      Agree. Same day enrolment is also a big plus. Both these changes will help lift the vote of low income people and disenfranchised people which will help the socially conscious left.

      National and its follows will be furious about this. I'm surprised they didn't try to block it.

      • adam 7.1.1
        20 June 2019 at 3:01 pm

        Only if they put up, then inact on left wing policy. Otherwise low income people and disenfranchised people will vote for populist demagogues like boris or trump.

        But you knew that already 🙂

  8. Sabine 8
    20 June 2019 at 1:35 pm

    water, who really needs it, right?

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/19/india/chennai-water-crisis-intl-hnk/index.html

    One hundred million people, including those in the large cities of Delhi, Bangalore and Hyderabad, will soon be living in zero groundwater cities, according to the Niti Aayog report. This number will likely continue increasing, as the United Nations recently estimated that India's population will surge by almost 300 million by 2050, and it will become the world's most populous country.

    Complicating the issue are the devastating effects of climate change. Monsoon rains have been more erratic and droughts more common, threatening farmer's harvests. This could cripple livelihoods across the predominantly agricultural country, where 80% of water is used to irrigate thirsty crops such as sugar cane and rice.

    "Unless we adapt our water storage to suit the change in rain intensity, we're going to suffer really badly," said Sharma. "All parts of India — rural, urban, everybody."

    • marty mars 8.1
      20 June 2019 at 2:21 pm

      +1 yep – I saw this yesterday

      The southern Indian city of Chennai (formerly Madras) is in crisis after its four main water reservoirs ran completely dry.

      The acute water shortage has forced the city to scramble for urgent solutions, including drilling new boreholes.

      Residents have had to stand in line for hours to get water from government tanks, and restaurants have closed due to the lack of water.

      "Only rain can save Chennai from this situation," an official told BBC Tamil.

      The city, which, according to the 2011 census, is India's sixth largest, has been in the grip of a severe water shortage for weeks now.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48672330

      • Macro 8.1.1
        20 June 2019 at 5:45 pm

        Actually Marty, Chennai has been in a water crisis for years. My daughter's husband is from there and his parents and sister are there also. They have been living with Climate change for some time now. They rely on water tanks for water and what is trucked in. Farmers have been making a killing in suppling water to the city – indeed this is their main source of income now because they can earn more from selling the water rather than using it for farming. It really is no joke just how desperate they are for water. And then, when it does come, it can come in the form of a flood the like of which we can only imagine, and the majority of it just races away to the ocean.

    • WeTheBleeple 8.2
      20 June 2019 at 2:26 pm

      They need to switch out those staples for things that aren't water hungry. Potatoes, cassava, sweet potato – all require much less water. I got massive kumara yields out front with very little watering through the drought.

      The thing with sugar though, it gives one hell of a yield. There are sustainable sugar farmers appearing in the regions in India – I learn from them (painstakingly, it is in Indian) but without water… green credentials won't amount to a hill of beans (or sugar).

      Oh, and beans, well, pigeon peas to be precise if you want low water for high protein.

      Do we have pigeon peas in NZ – Robert? I love the idea of some nitrogen fixing shrubs with a decent yield to them. They could easily replace lupins in some sandy landscapes…

      • Sabine 8.2.1
        20 June 2019 at 3:06 pm

        how about they just stop companies from draining the groundwater for bottling and coca cola.

        And i honestly believe that we might just not be so fast as to tell the Indians what they can and can not grow in India, considering that the country is very large, with quite different climates, and people who have been vegans long before it became fashionable for a bunch of hipsters to fret about food..

        This is not about a low water crisis, this is about a no water crisis, as in no ground water, all damns depleted, and i am not sure switching a country with a billion plus people over to kumara is gonna fix it.

        • McFlock 8.2.1.1
          20 June 2019 at 3:21 pm

          pretty much.

          Whether it's more to do with population density, climate change, or urban planning is an interesting question, but people are really hurting.

        • WeTheBleeple 8.2.1.2
          20 June 2019 at 3:47 pm

          The study of agricultural systems is my bread and butter.

          Sugar needs 1500 – 2500 mm rain per year.

          Cassava can produce heavily with 400 mm.

          Kumara in high production can take 100 mm a month but will do well on half that. 4-5 months to maturation and the greens are edible too so production can kick off very early and last all season. THE highest yielding (nutrition) crop in this regard.

          Average rainfall in India 300 – 650 but widely varied and unreliable to bank on. The monsoon seasons are becoming broken, more severe or piss weak, timing becoming more varied.

          I'll comment if I want WTF would you know.

          • McFlock 8.2.1.2.1
            20 June 2019 at 4:22 pm

            Ever hear the saying that to a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail?

            • WeTheBleeple 8.2.1.2.1.1
              20 June 2019 at 4:48 pm

              Ever hear the saying: McFlock off?

              When the water's gone the food supply will follow. They could import or desalinate but the expense will leave not a drop for agriculture.

              Agriculture then, has to take a long hard look at itself, as weather patterns will cease to be predictable. And the water required to grow sugar for the west… not really tenable at present. The future?

              India has been producing for the western world on a large scale, and getting rorted in the process. Sabine makes a great point about Coca Cola (but is she too fast to say so lol), and the myriad other corporations over there gouging profits and trashing ecosystems.

              The tragedy is we forget a drought as soon as it's passed. Again, the weather patterns will no longer be predictable, but they will get considerably worse. The writing has been on the wall and many of their politicians have done little but fill their coffers.

              They really do need some changes, famine follows drought.

              • McFlock …
                20 June 2019 at 4:54 pm

                Yes dear. Kumara will save them. They don't need to do anything else. 🙄

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  20 June 2019 at 5:12 pm

                  Geez I try but you're a whinging twat. I mentioned a bunch of crops and you've contributed McFlock all, again.

                  • McFlock …
                    20 June 2019 at 5:30 pm

                    OK, how much of Chennai's groundwater take is due to agriculture?

                    • WeTheBleeple …
                      20 June 2019 at 5:43 pm

                      How about you go away and learn, then come back and tell us all about it.

                      Contribute or fuck off.

                      You can start here

                      https://chennaimetrowater.tn.gov.in/watersupplysystem.html

                    • McFlock …
                      20 June 2019 at 6:04 pm

                      That link doesn't actually answer the question, does it.

                      edit: this overview suggests that over half the water use is residential, with another chunk being industrial (probably includes your cane fields). And another lot “unknown”. But agriculture won’t fix it.

                    • joe90 …
                      20 June 2019 at 6:21 pm

                      Seems the whole damn state is behind the eight ball.

                      The demand for water in Tamil Nadu is increasing at a fast rate both due to increasing population and also due to larger per capita needs triggered by economic growth. The per capita availability of water resources however, is just 900 cubic meters when compared to the national average of 2,200 cubic meters. Agriculture is the largest consumer of water in the State using 75 per cent of the State’s water resources

                      http://tnenvis.nic.in/Database/TN-ENVIS_791.aspx

                    • WeTheBleeple …
                      20 June 2019 at 6:39 pm

                      McFlock – it was a damn good link to start with. Gives a clear picture of the history and methods of water capture employed.

                      I didn't say 'here's your answer' did I…

                      But joe90 found it. Thanks.

                    • McFlock …
                      20 June 2019 at 6:44 pm

                      Interesting. Things are bad and getting worse.

                      "The current level of utilisation expressed as net ground water draft of 13.558 MCM is about 60 per cent of the available recharge, while 8875 MCM (40 per cent) is the balance available for use. Over the last five years, the percentage of safe blocks has declined from 35.6 per cent to 25.2 per cent while the semi-critical blocks have gone up by a similar percentage. Over-exploitation has already occurred in more than a third of the blocks (35.8 per cent) while eight blocks (2 per cent) have turned saline. "

        • greywarshark 8.2.1.3
          20 June 2019 at 5:14 pm

          You are concerned about the matter Sabine and McFlock and then chastise WtB for making suggestions. If India has run out of water they have to do things differently so it's not helpful to deride WtB's suggestions. NZ might hate change but when times force change we and India have to do so. So don't go shooting people in the foot when they don't want to just sit in a sob circle and say 'Isn't it terrible, and what will they do. And it just goes to show', or something like 'is an interesting question, but people are really hurting.'

          • McFlock 8.2.1.3.1
            20 June 2019 at 5:38 pm

            You can't solve a problem if you make an incorrect assumption about the cause.

            Chennai is using its groundwater at almost twice the replenishment rate. If that sustainability gap is due substantially to inapproriate crop selection, fair call. But if the bulk of it is due to water-intensive industries, a much better option would be to regulate those industries. If it's due simply to having to supply water to 4million people (and increasing), they need more water plants and storage. Maybe it's a mix of those things, and more.

            There are lots of stories about inappropriate "aid" and "advice" being given to people in need because the donors didn't look past their assumptions.

            • Macro 8.2.1.3.1.1
              20 June 2019 at 5:49 pm

              Many farmers are not actually producing anything because they can get more money by selling their water directly. Food is mainly brought in from outside the region.

            • marty mars 8.2.1.3.1.2
              20 June 2019 at 6:59 pm

              Exactly. It is pretty basic – doesn't need as much ego imo in some of the comments – this is a GROUNDWATER issue not a cropping issue. One is immediate the other is long term but obviously both on the same spectrum.

          • WeTheBleeple 8.2.1.3.2
            20 June 2019 at 5:40 pm

            I've actually experienced a few weeks of no water in the pipes. There was a factory fire upstream on the banks of the Waihou river a silo of milk powder got in the river and everything died.

            Milk tankers of water turned up and we in line with buckets and billy cans.

            We had the only hot bath in the village, having borrowed a contraption to heat about 50 litres at a pop off our farming cuzzies.

            When you're the only hot bath in town, you become very popular.

            Round here, don't be coming up with smart ideas. Commiserate! Those poor smelly bastards with no bath…

          • WeTheBleeple 8.2.1.3.3
            20 June 2019 at 6:07 pm

            This is an interesting read. Too many details to summarise.

            An answer to 'What crops grow in Tamilnadu?' from Jan 2017. They were in deep shit then (The area Chennai is part of).

            "In a desperate attempt to draw the government’s attention to their plight, farmers in the city of Tiruchi stood with dead rats in their mouths in front of the collector’s office last week, demanding loan wavers and relief measures."

            https://www.quora.com/Which-are-the-crops-cultivated-in-Tamil-Nadu-How-many-crops-do-TN-farmers-cultivate-in-a-year-What-is-the-plight-of-2016-crops

            • Robert Guyton 8.2.1.3.3.1
              20 June 2019 at 6:48 pm

              "farmers in the city of Tiruchi stood with dead rats in their mouths"

              Whoaaaa! Could this happen in New Zealand? Could our farmers, if driven to desperation by the banks (hello, Mr Key) stomach that sort of protest action?

          • Sabine 8.2.1.3.4
            20 June 2019 at 6:28 pm

            I am not really concerned. Put me in the basket of those blasee at the knowledge that the train is derailed and we are now buckled in for the right. And then when we reach the end of our life we die. So don't consider me concerned.

            I posted this link to more as an information about things to come here. We have been in a bit of drought lately. Having two days of drizzle per month since December last year does not look good, and rain patterns are pretty sketchy elsewhere too. Our water quality is fucked up generally, without waders i would not wade in, our selling of water for it to be bottled and sold elsewhere, our irrigation madness so that we can grow cows in the plains somewhere and so forth is what we need to rethink, not the planting of kumara in india – which is something they already do. I would assume that the Indians in India know what to grow in their areas with their soils and such. I would even assume them to save their seeds, compost, grow soil and do all that schnick schnack that makes us feel so super duper good about ourselfs.

            and yes, i chastised (what a lovely word innit – to censure, castigate 🙂 ) WTB who looks at this problem that is of such a magnitude that it is hard to bend ones mind around – no water not just for one mega city in India but several; No Water for several 10s of millions of people – with the suggestion that maybe if they switch over to low water vegetables something would happen and the reservoirs and aquifiers would replenish and magic!!

            So yeah, i am with McFlock there, it ain't the vegetable farmers that depleted the Water all by themselves and it might even be an arrogant assumption as to what people there do or not do, as non of us really would know. As for the farmers now selling the water at an inflated price to towners should tell us something about town planning and water rights and even be a lesson for us here in NZ where we too are selling the farm to the highest bidder with out any consideration about tomorrow or our young ones. And we are selling our water extra cheap and we don't think about the fact that once pumped and loaded it is gone pretty much forever. So yeah, its ok lets plant more kumaras, i love the purple ones baked until caramalised and crisp.

            Does the Kumara might be from India. https://www.ndtv.com/food/sweet-potato-is-native-to-india-not-america-says-new-research-top-4-health-benefits-of-the-tuber-1856317

            • WeTheBleeple 8.2.1.3.4.1
              20 June 2019 at 6:52 pm

              3/4 of the regions water goes to Ag. The crops they grow are for the most part water demanding. My advice is not simply 'grow kumara' so stop being misleading that that's all it was.

              Their industry has fed the western machine and increasing western ways of their own society. We've done them no favors.

              You talk about our drought and yet have at me for knowing a thing or two about what might be done. Half the rain requires crops that only need… guess how much?

              "So yeah, i am with McFlock there, it ain't the vegetable farmers that depleted the Water all by themselves and it might even be an arrogant assumption as to what people there do or not do, as non of us really would know"

              Well actually, I was right. So go suck a…. kumara.

              • McFlock …
                20 June 2019 at 6:58 pm

                3/4 of the state's water goes to agriculture.

                the state is bigger than Chennai itself.

                The state is depleting its water resources, but still has reserves. Chennai has run out. Most of Chennai's water use was residential a few years ago.

              • Sabine …
                20 June 2019 at 7:33 pm

                wow.

                suck the kumara

                English[edit]

                Etymology[edit]

                Presumably because both a corpse and kumara (“sweet potato”) are buried.

                Verb[edit]

                suck the kumara

                1. (New Zealand, slang, idiomatic) To die.

                Synonyms[edit]

                it actually does not matter what you know, how much you know, or not. You are an arrogant little pisser like all of us are without any consequences in the larger realm of things. Firstly. Secondly, you are an angry little pisser, when some don't agree with you or immediatly bows to your snakr and wisdom and might even find you a little small minded and single focused or blinded by thy own grandness (take your pick) and you have shown that on more then one occasion, so really, go eat a snickers or some kale chips, cause you seem petty and angry when hungry.

                Thirdly, yes your idea of switching to low water foods and the likes is recommendable and i am sure that the Indians will be more then happy to entertain your idea should they get to listen to you, cause clearly the Indians would not know how to grow low water use vegetables to save their million people mega cities from running out of water.

                Fourth, as has been pointed out below by McFlock we are talking about Cities. You know those places with few farms but lots of peoples and businesses and cars an such. but i am sure if all these people living in the cities without water will suck a kumara then all will be well and you get to feel all grand and super duper about yourself and your kumara.

                bye now.

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  20 June 2019 at 10:24 pm

                  They grew temperate crops in an arid region. Ecocide. The big global trading system that cares not for nature but bends her to their will.

                  That's where the majority of the water goes/went.

                  For someone who doesn't care you come across as a hysterical twat looking for any old shit to be outraged about.

                  And what’s with the narrow focused obsession with kumara and Chennai, get with the big picture or STFU.

                  Yes the situation sucks. Wringing your hands wont help.

            • marty mars 8.2.1.3.4.2
              20 June 2019 at 7:01 pm

              + 1 yep pretty basic stuff I would have thought but there you go.

      • Robert Guyton 8.2.2
        20 June 2019 at 4:34 pm

        A bit tropical for pigeon peas, for the moment, I expect, but someone somewhere in NZ will be growing them in anticipation (no one is Southland…yet).

        WTB's thinking is sound and the search for suitable crops is paramount. Some will already be here: it'll just be a case of adjusting the management to new conditions, as well as eco-sensitivity (go organic, or something better).

        India, WTB? Your view on its place in the destruction of the natural environment; just an off-shoot of the Occidental war against nature?

        • McFlock 8.2.2.1
          20 June 2019 at 4:42 pm

          Agricultural land use is often a big factor, yes. But there are other issues at play in a city of 4 million. Industrial water use, grey water (non) use, leaking reticulation systems, failure to plan infrastructure for increasing populations, and so on are all worthy of examination.

          • WeTheBleeple 8.2.2.1.1
            20 June 2019 at 5:10 pm

            Good points. Especially where they can reuse, and minimise current waste.

            Infrastructure, dare I poke my head up and think about it?

            These mental exercises could help our Aussie neighbors, and drought prone regions here too.

            Earthworks, swales, ground storage. Passive solar desalination. I'd make them with clay sealed depressions, and glass tops. Get a glass factory and some clay quarried and go large. Top quality drinking water once you add a bit of the salts back. And salt…

            Is that too salty?

        • WeTheBleeple 8.2.2.2
          20 June 2019 at 4:53 pm

          Briefly touched on it (thoughts on Indian Ag) above.

          So many amazing innovators and farmers, some impressive permaculture and initiatives that spring up – and these get talked about a lot. The people are absolutely into the sustainable farming alternatives where presented. Whole villages turn up for the earthworks, there is hope there.

          But the government reticence to change BAU, is BAU.

          • Robert Guyton 8.2.2.2.1
            20 June 2019 at 5:58 pm

            I agree that there's "fertile ground" there, for innovation, but I'm thinking that despite the "foreignness" the "Indians" seem to be just a chapter in our own story; Agriculture is King, rather than a completely different line, such as the Amazonians might represent. Peter Procter spent half his time in India working with biodynamic farmers (One cow, one planet) and the other here in NZ. I do think the continent is an example of ruination through agriculture culture.

            • WeTheBleeple 8.2.2.2.1.1
              20 June 2019 at 6:26 pm

              Yep. But you can't go saying things like that.

              Some of the locals blame excessive industry, farmers, soda bottlers, government and corporate collusion, various ticket clipping agencies…

              Sounds mighty familiar.

              "The major crops sown in Tamilnadu are rice, jowar, ragi, bajra, maize, and pulses. Few other crops that are highly cultivated in the regions of Tamilnadu are cotton, sugarcane, tea, coffee, and coconut. Tamilnadu has also gained a commendable status is the horticultural sector in its agricultural department. The horticultural products of Tamilnadu include cash crops and oil seed crops. Bananas and mangoes are cash crops while groundnuts, sesame, and sunflower are oil seed crops. Paddy is the most leading crop in Tamilnadu and is found in 3 kinds namely Kuruvai, Thaladi, and Samba that varies from season to season."

              They've commended themselves for their efforts. Yet now people are wondering if it's worth even trying to grow food there, only two years on. These systems crash hard.

              Time to ditch the Ag advisers and bring in the permies.

              • RedLogix …
                20 June 2019 at 6:36 pm

                You'll like this WTB:

                The idea began in 2000, when Mr Statham senior left the wool industry for wine grapes and, in place of investors for the vineyard, his son came up with the idea of a strata title model of organic farming.

                Now, the 140-hectare multiple-occupancy farm at Canowindra, New South Wales, is home to 22 people on a dozen plots united by an organic covenant and a commitment to developing their own agribusinesses.

                Rivers Road Organic Farms was set up as a "hybrid" between farming community lifestyle blocks and a standard strata title scheme, sharing skills and resources — without a formal business structure.

                https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-06-18/organic-farmer-village-helps-shoulder-the-burden-together/11215732

                • Stuart Munro. …
                  20 June 2019 at 6:54 pm

                  That's a great idea. Mate of mine does the books for a number of wealthy individuals near Christchurch. They own lifestyle blocks of one kind or another, but find the effort of doing anything with them excessive. The market is structurally rejecting the kind of young folk who could make something of them.

                  • WeTheBleeple …
                    20 June 2019 at 7:04 pm

                    Have you heard the saying 'Land Poor' Stuart?

                    The idea is, if you can't manage the land you have, you are actually land poor. You spend all your time battling uphill and have no life. A slave to, rather than steward of, your lot.

                    But with a small plot you can get really high production.

                    And all kinds of in between.

                    With a reasonable sized plot and a few helping hands – Eden is there for the making*

                    *For a limited time only.

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  20 June 2019 at 7:13 pm

                  Nice find. That's a good model where they've not become enmeshed in each others business but share skills, company and gear. Smart.

              • Robert Guyton …
                20 June 2019 at 6:42 pm

                "Time to ditch the Ag advisers and bring in the permies."

                Convert those Ag advisors to permaculture, or something better, and we'll be on the way; It's a Big Ask, but it's a Big Challenge, so let's pull on our Big Pants.

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  20 June 2019 at 6:56 pm

                  That's a bloody good point. Will the Nuns of NPK convert.

                  Brothers and Sisters, we need a miracle!

    • joe90 8.3
      20 June 2019 at 4:31 pm

      A decade or two and they'll be lucky if they can grow anything.

      https://twitter.com/NASAEarth/status/1139699078873452544

      • Stuart Munro. 8.3.1
        20 June 2019 at 5:54 pm

        Bangladesh may have it harder – a 50cm sealevel rise is estimated to cost them 11% of their land – Greenland will do more than that.

        • WeTheBleeple 8.3.1.1
          20 June 2019 at 6:34 pm

          Meanwhile, back in Noddy Town

          North Island coastal property values are surging by as much as 66 percent, new research by OneRoof shows…

          blush

    • Pat 8.4
      20 June 2019 at 5:56 pm

      “India can’t afford to ignore its water crisis. Neither can South Asia or the world. Water scarcity is a clear and present danger, not a distant threat, and global warming heightens this threat. This month, international researchers from the U.S. and South and Central Asia released new research on major river basins at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington. Their findings reveal that snowmelt accounts for nearly three-quarters of the water in two of India’s key basins — the Brahmaputra and Indus — and nearly half of the water in the Ganga, the country’s largest river basin.”

      https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/water-woes/article25814399.ece

      Miuse/allocation obviously an issue but it appears that it will be exacerbated by reducing future availability…..those dismissing societal collapse within 30 years may wish to consider how organised society functions without sufficient water

  9. cleangreen 9
    20 June 2019 at 4:04 pm

    In a Ministry of Transport official documented study released shows that tyre wear from a truck is at least 100 times more than an average car.

    https://transport.govt.nz/assets/Import/Documents/9fa2b3a10b/stormwater-emission-factors.pdf •

    In a corner stone report released, by the ‘Government’s Principal transport advisory agency’ the Ministry of Transport entitled ‘Emission Factors for Contaminants Released by Motor Vehicles in New Zealand’ it clearly shows graphs and tables confirming our worst fears that surfaces of rough surface roads will increase the tyre to road ‘friction’ that will greatly increase the tyre wear and tyre dust ‘emissions’ from all tyres if the roads are made from a chip seal or worse from metal or gravel road surface.

    The tables and literature shows that as the weight of the freight carried on trucks increases the tyre dust emissions increases dramatically.

    We have located documents that show that scientists have now found traces of tyre dust being carried on sea tidal currents to the polar ice and are now speeding up the melting of the ice caps, due to the black tyre dust attracting the suns heat. Ministry of Transport. – ‘Emission Factors for Contaminant s Released by Motor Vehicles in New Zealand’ is a serious wake up call to our regional Governments who are now beginning to write changes and intent to their future planning to reduce the climate emissions after signing the ‘Climate change emergency declaration.’ Our HB Regional Council are also signing onto this climate change emergency declaration;

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1906/S00449/hawkes-bay-support-for-climate-emergency-declaration.htm

    Rail is the answer as “steel wheels on a steel track” has no friction or tyre dust emissions and therefore is the ‘environmental gold standard’ for our future economic growth of our regions increased business development to avoid any increase harm to our environment or climate.

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