Open mike 20/08/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 20th, 2023 - 70 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

70 comments on “Open mike 20/08/2023 ”

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  1. gsays 1
    20 August 2023 at 9:06 am

    Yet another low point in neo-liberalism and it's current enabler, The NZ Labour Party.

    The shame isn't exclusively the governments though. From the news clip last week, it was said that these men were here for welding and driving jobs. This is how messed up this 'free-market' belief system masquerading as a political system is. Businesses no longer need to train, develop, nurture or invest in staff. Just get their industry lobby group to squeal like the stuck proverbial and get folk from overseas to do it cheaper.

    This is where we end up. Parasites masquerading as 'Employment Consultants' clipping the ticket, that is after 'Immigration Consultants' have had their go.

    This shameful episode should not be happening.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/08/four-more-auckland-properties-under-investigation-for-allegedly-housing-exploited-migrants.html

    C'mon Minister Little, get assertive, push back and show everyone this is not to be tolerated here. Confiscate any of the properties involved in housing these vulnerable people. Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 should do the trick.

    Meanwhile get these people on a benefit.

  2. SPC 2
    20 August 2023 at 9:14 am

    The system under which we have hundreds(known(thousands) here without accredited employers looking for work.

    They are supposed to have named accredited employers on their application.

    But "somehow", they are are here without actual jobs from these employers.

    Have they paid people (agents) to learn of an accredited employer, or did their agents fill in the forms for them in return for money?

    https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/visas/visa/accredited-employer-work-visa

    The expansion from 3 to 5 years from 27 November.

    3-5 years from 27 November.

    https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/working-in-nz/accredited-employer-work-visa

    What could go wrong?

    MBIE is unable to check it all because of the numbers, so it's just a bureaucrats rubber stamp – and David Seymour wants to get rid of the rubber stamp, to make it officially open slather, while there is lack of housing and a cost of living problem.

    • gsays 2.1
      20 August 2023 at 10:04 am

      What could go wrong you ask?

      This is a view of Minister Little on Q&A.

      "So there’s Andrew Little last week on Q+A getting grilled by Jack Tame on the Worker Visa accreditation scheme that effectively trusts the 27 000 accredited to not exploit the 77 000 migrant workers.

      Jack challenges the process and argues the system, is only funded to review 15% of applications yet to date had barely reviewed 3% and of the 27 000 accredited, the Government had dumped only 2.

      The Minister struggled to look credible as he sat with a straight face and declared the current 3% was working fine."

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/08/20/andrew-littles-migrant-exploitation-arrogance-gets-bashed-and-it-aint-pretty/

      We may not like the source of the thinking, but I am keen to see where if the numbers are wrong. Funded for 15% but only 3% audited.

  3. ianmac 3
    20 August 2023 at 9:42 am

    ACT flags the Highways! In the 20km stretch of main Highway 6 from Renwick to Havelock, there are 18 shiny new election signs. All of them in farm paddocks.Those huge sign growth are presumably with the cooperation of the farmers. What does it mean if anything?

    There was one small Green sign but no other Parties in sight.

  4. Anne 4
    20 August 2023 at 9:55 am

    So this is how the befuddled minority who call themselves the Freedom Party and their mates in the Destiny Church plan to humiliate and up-end Labour's campaign trail?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132776440/the-political-divide-drowns-out-chris-hipkins-splits-families-in-tara

    And I suspect this campaign by the "haters" everywhere is going to become more hysterical as election day draws nearer.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.1
      20 August 2023 at 10:03 am

      Hi Anne. "hysterical haters" , thats one description ! I did comment with a link already..

      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19-08-2023/#comment-1965169

      I reckon they will be seen as that.

    • Molly 4.2
      20 August 2023 at 10:13 am

      From your posted article:

      "And gender, specifically transgender inclusion, had been a hot button issue amongst conservative American politics. This has now reached New Zealand through groups such as Destiny Church…"

      This is a leading statement, and demonstrably untrue. Concerns about legislative and policy changes obscuring sex for an incoherent gender identity have been discussed on this left-wing platform for years.

      This framing occurs through the piece including the reference to BlackRock.

      It is really unusual to have this type of reaction to public politicking though, and it deserves more consideration and better analysis as to the why.

      • Anne 4.2.1
        20 August 2023 at 11:40 am

        I took that quote to mean that the ultra conservative (a polite way of putting it) among the American population are implacably opposed to any form of identity politics as a blasphemous conspiracy to take over the world – or some such barbaric nonsense. And their Kiwi counterparts have also taken up the cudgel.

        However you are far better informed on the subject and I agree it would be interesting to have some formal analysis as to how and why this situation as arisen.

        • Molly 4.2.1.1
          20 August 2023 at 1:07 pm

          I later readed your post about the billboards on the isthmus:

          https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19-08-2023/#comment-1965146

          "Passed a piece of Council owned land on the North Shore isthmus used for election bill boards. The Labour billboard was down and someone had taken to it with an axe and chopped it into pieces. Rarely seen anyone go to that extent before."

          Coincidentally had just watched this on Twitter (If link doesn't work – a cyclist ineffectively kicking someone's "Trump Won" sign, then concerningly, returning a couple of days later at night to burn it.):

          https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1692884225953779887

          This apparently growing aversion to even countenance anyone expressing a view or political position that is distasteful and disagreeable seems to be resulting in real world destructive acts.

          I don't know why this is occurring, but it is a very real concern, especially if becomes accepted as expected behaviour rather than condemned.

          (Above video not posted as whataboutery, just coincidence. I think all such acts should be called out.)

          • Anne 4.2.1.1.1
            20 August 2023 at 1:20 pm

            There's a sequel to that story. Went past this morning and a Labour billboard is back up only in a different spot. But the National billboard has been pulled down and axed up.

            Retribution on someone's part?

            It is funny but not funny. They used to be defaced or pulled down but rarely ended up completely wrecked. It is indeed a sign that people think they can take matters so much further than in previous times.

            • Molly 4.2.1.1.1.1
              20 August 2023 at 1:38 pm

              "It is funny but not funny. "

              I don't find i funny at all. I'd be less concerned it we knew the perpetrators were teenagers who are still developing impulse control, but I have a suspicion these are acts of adults. indecision

            • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.1.1.1.2
              20 August 2023 at 3:00 pm

              Yesterday (Saturday) a Labour party representative knocked on the door and asked if he could put a couple of small electoral hoardings on my front fence. I said yes, and the two signs (one for Labour, and one for our local MP) went up later that day – the fences of two other nearby houses also had the same signs stapled up yesterday.

              This morning all the signs were gone – just a few shiny staples remain. I've contacted the local Labour party office to let them know they can replace the signs on my fence if they want to.

              Imho, such dull and dirty political tactics really speak to the character of some opposition party supporters. There will be ratbags in all political camps, but the National (and Green) party hoardings on our street still stand – for now.

              • Visubversa …
                20 August 2023 at 4:25 pm

                We have 2 Labour signs on our fence which survived the night. Mind you – we are not on a busy road and I have signs every election. Never lost one yet.

    • Patricia Bremner 4.3
      20 August 2023 at 9:48 pm

      Nick Rockell "Nick's Korero" had it right . Worth a read."Beyond the Fringe" on the side panel here.

      • Anne 4.3.1
        20 August 2023 at 11:10 pm

        Learnt today that Newshub political editor, Jenna Lynch (the author of the story) is married to ACT Chief of Staff, Andrew Ketels. Sums it all up!

        Surely that represents a conflict of interest.

  5. Blazer 5
    20 August 2023 at 11:05 am

    Q&A this morning observations.

    Tame is a very good interviewer.

    Simeon Brown is one of the Natz most polished performers…regurgitated 'our(insert policy)..will be released…shortly.

    ACT ,don't bother putting their candidates visage on alot of hoardings….just the twerkster=party vote .

    TOP- seems to be the only party that understands the real ramifications of ludicrous property prices and Raf has a plausible plan to address them.

    • bwaghorn 5.1
      20 August 2023 at 11:33 am

      "Simeon Brown is one of the Natz most polished performers

      Slippery things often give the appearance of being polished.

      • Anne 5.1.1
        20 August 2023 at 11:49 am

        His whiter than white crisp shirt together with his top to bottom shine from an over indulgent clean and polisher was too much for my aging eyes so turned the TV off.

      • newsense 5.1.2
        21 August 2023 at 5:57 am

        A reminder perhaps that some otters are exceeding vicious and violent.

        Himiona if you please. His non-Kiwi name confuses me…

    • Bearded Git 5.2
      20 August 2023 at 12:45 pm

      Bollocks Blazer. TOP are not the only party to address the issue of house prices.

      Both Labour and the Greens have, to different degrees, decried stratospheric property and house prices.

      Labour has done several things to sort this out. They have built an extra 8000 state houses with many more in the pipeline (Keys government sold off state houses to finance tax cuts), they have brought in the 10 year bright line test , stopped most overseas purchases and stopped interest being claimed as an expense on rental houses. This has resulted in a roughly 12 percent drop in house prices, much more if inflation is taken into account.

      Labour has also enacted rules to densify housing development in the major cities which reduces development costs and so house prices. Luxon has pathetically reneged on this.

      In fact Luxon and Seymour will reverse all of these gains that have finally helped first time buyers.

    • mikesh 5.3
      20 August 2023 at 1:18 pm

      I must admit I don't think much of National's policy of making all road usage subject to road user charges. It would mean that if I drive 100 km in my relatively low emission Suzuki Ignis I would be paying the same mount as someone driving the same distance in a gas guzzling monster. It certainly won't do anything to discourage the purchase of gas guzzlers. Their proposed policy of gradually reducing the emissions profile of cars coming into the the country will take years, and perhaps even decades, to have any effect; and in the meantime I'll be paying more for my road usage, assuming the government wishes to collect the same amount of revenue as they do now.

      • The Chairman 5.3.1
        20 August 2023 at 1:42 pm

        National's policy of making all road users subject to road user charges also seems to be overlooking New Zealand's commitment to the Just Transition Declaration.

        https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz-commits-just-transition

        I can't seem to find any policy (from any party) that specifically aims to ensure it (a just transition). Nor do I see the media holding anyone to account.

        • Incognito 5.3.1.1
          20 August 2023 at 1:58 pm

          You must have not looked hard, if at all. Because if you had it would have made your idiosyncratic negatively loaded concern narrative null and void.

          • The Chairman 5.3.1.1.1
            20 August 2023 at 2:14 pm

            Can you point me to any policy (from any party) that specifically aims to ensure it?

            • Incognito 5.3.1.1.1.1
              20 August 2023 at 2:29 pm

              I think you should stop wasting my time and that of others.

              If you need a tutorial for doing internet searches then you’re in the wrong place here.

              It should be quite easy to find policies of parties that at least refer to it.

              It should be quite easy to find NZ media articles that talk about it.

              I could do the mahi for you but for each link that I find I’ll ban you for a month for lazy time wasting and concern trolling.

              Deal?

  6. Bearded Git 6
    20 August 2023 at 12:50 pm

    Bollocks Blazer. TOP are not the only party to address the issue of house prices.

    Both Labour and the Greens have, to different degrees, decried stratospheric property prices.

    Labour has done several things to sort this out. They have built an extra 8000 state houses with many more on the pipeline (Keys government sold off state houses to finance tax cuts), they have brought in the 10 year bright line test , stopped most overseas purchases and stopped interest being claimed as an expense on rental houses. This has resulted in a roughly 12 percent drop in house prices, much more if inflation is taken into account.

    Labour instigated cross party rules to densify housing in the major cities which also greatly helps to reduce house prices. Luxon has pathetically reneged on Nationals support for this.

    Luxon and Seymour will reverse these gains all of which have helped first time buyers.

    • Incognito 6.1
      20 August 2023 at 1:01 pm

      As does TMP.

    • mikesh 6.2
      20 August 2023 at 1:40 pm

      TOP have said they will get rid of the brightline tax and make interest once again deductible. The latter would seem to be counterproductive as non deductibility probably discourages the purchase of houses for investment purposes. However they do have a couple pf worthwhile policies: the introduction of a land value tax, offset presumably by reductions in income tax, and insisting on a 100% deposit when purchasing an investment properties. The former would probably have a longer term effect rather than an immediate one.

      • The Chairman 6.2.1
        20 August 2023 at 1:48 pm

        A land value tax will add to the costs of homeownership.

        • mikesh 6.2.1.1
          20 August 2023 at 6:52 pm

          A land value tax will add to the costs of home ownership.

          That's the general idea, the assumption being that the wealthy would probably live where land is most expensive, easing the burden on the poor who would very likely be living in less expensive areas. It would also encourage the more efficient use of land, perhaps encouraging greater densification. The whole system would of course be offset to some extent by reductions in income tax rates.

          • The Chairman 6.2.1.1.1
            21 August 2023 at 9:00 am

            That's the general idea

            Making the cost of homeownership more expensive doesn't help people get on to the property ladder. And the extra costs could result in more costs being passed on to tenants.

            As for the tax offset, those on lower incomes tend to pay less tax, thus the offset is less likely to stack up. Potentially putting more costs onto the poor opposed to the wealthy.

            • mikesh 6.2.1.1.1.1
              22 August 2023 at 12:41 am

              I worked out that, based on the land value of our property, my wife and I would be better off if TOP were to introduce its 0.75% land tax, assuming they they also introduced their tax free zone of 0 – 30,000 dollars at the same time. Though we are not planning to by a house (we already have one), our ability to get on the property ladder would be enhanced if were planning to do so. I assume also that if the tax were, say, $5,000 we would actually be paying $2,500 each.

              Renters would also be benefiting from the same tax savings.

              • The Chairman …
                25 August 2023 at 1:57 pm

                That's really great that it works out for you and no doubt others.

                My opposition to it is it doesn't work out for a number of lower income earners. I don't support a tax that hits lower income earners harder.

      • bwaghorn 6.2.2
        20 August 2023 at 1:58 pm

        , and insisting on a 100% deposit when purchasing an investment properties

        Don't think it'd called a deposit if you've paid full price.

    • Blazer 6.3
      20 August 2023 at 2:52 pm

      ' the only party that understands the real ramifications '

      You can 'decry' them all you like -when you are in a position to really address an issue and tip toe around it..you are responsible.imo.

      Yes I agree TPM also have sound policy re property affordability.

  7. bwaghorn 7
    20 August 2023 at 1:56 pm

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44852031/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/

    Not politics, but interesting facts about ev batteries, hopefully my next ute has a battery powering it!

    • ianmac 7.1
      20 August 2023 at 5:21 pm

      Yes bwaghorn. If true, it seems that an e-car has a much longer life expectancy that I believed.

  8. Joe90 8
    20 August 2023 at 4:42 pm

    Obviously National's Simeon Brown has never traveled on an InterCity bus.

    National argues the Government's decision to invest tens of millions into inter-regional public transport, focused on trains, is unnecessary as InterCity buses already exist.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/08/20/intercity-buses-better-than-govts-105m-regional-trains-pitch-national/