Open Mike 20/04/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 20th, 2017 - 66 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

66 comments on “Open Mike 20/04/2017 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. The decrypter 1
    20 April 2017 at 7:31 am

    Brace Yourselves, be brave, rugby fever is spreading, tell coleman somebody, Who will double dipper English latch onto? Richy has gone. Who will he scrum down with? So many questions. Whew!!

  2. Herodotus 2
    20 April 2017 at 8:03 am

    If you ever needed an example of an immigrant being exploited and their employee benefiting from paying a low wage !!
    “The challenge for me now is to find an employer who will pay me what I am really worth,” Chung added.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11841268

    • mpledger 2.1
      20 April 2017 at 10:20 am

      The changes will hurt immigrants but not improve anything for NZers. There are so many people wanting to come to NZ that this rule is practically worthless.
      “Limiting lower skilled visa holders to a maximum of three years, after which a stand-down period will apply before another visa can be approved.”

      The flow will still be the same it will just be a quicker turnover.

      And notice how nothing is said about how long the stand down period is. What’s the bet it’s something like 3 months – a typical holiday length for people going home to the northern hemisphere for the summer or getting to the difficult to reach places in inner China, India and South America.

      The real problem is that 25-30 year old tourists are taking the jobs in tourist towns that would normally have been done by kids as their first job out of high school. These rules won’t change this.

      • Bill 2.1.1
        20 April 2017 at 10:35 am

        ….are taking the jobs in tourist towns that would normally have been done by kids as their first job out of high school.

        Yeah…except that apart from many of those jobs being seasonal, they are often the type of job that mature and not exactly uneducated, and not exactly school leaving age adults either, would be looking to given the utter mess that’s been made of the job market by successive governments imposing liberal economic dogma.

        I’m pretty sure we could all draw up an extensive list of jobs that were seen as ‘not real jobs’ – just temporary stops in life…like stacking supermarket shelves for example, that have become ‘bread and butter’ components of household income

        Bring in robust employment legislation, end all employer subsidies (eg – wff) and terminate the relatively ‘free ride’ that far too many arse-hole employers have been enjoying.

        • Antoine 2.1.1.1
          20 April 2017 at 10:46 am

          > end all employer subsidies (eg – wff)

          Oh yes [interested] will that be enough to pay for a tax cut?

          A.

      • Craig H 2.1.2
        20 April 2017 at 7:33 pm

        The proposed stand down is 12 months.

  3. esoteric pineapples 3
    20 April 2017 at 8:33 am

    According to Mike Hosking on Seven Sharp last night, Barack Obama lost the last election. A momentary mental slip up of course, but perhaps a Freudian one.

    From Wikipedia: “A Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that is interpreted as occurring due to the interference of an unconscious subdued wish or internal train of thought. The concept is part of classical psychoanalysis.

    In contrast to psychoanalytic theorists, cognitive psychologists say that linguistic slips can represent a sequencing conflict in grammar production. From this perspective, slips may be due to cognitive underspecification that can take a variety of forms – inattention, incomplete sense data or insufficient knowledge. Secondly, they may be due to the existence of some locally appropriate response pattern that is strongly primed by its prior usage, recent activation or emotional change or by the situation calling conditions.”

    • Anne 3.1
      20 April 2017 at 9:49 am

      In other words he places his own interpretation on events (consciously or unconsciously) which panders to his personal prejudices, regardless of the actual facts of ‘said events’ contradicting his every word.

      • esoteric pineapples 3.1.1
        20 April 2017 at 11:38 am

        Exactly, you don’t take a huge leap from Clinton to Obama without mentally having made them one and the same person somewhere in your brain.

    • Herodotus 3.2
      20 April 2017 at 10:59 am

      Talking of Mike …. I open up this page on the Herald to read the article about “Trumps Armada” with a video associated with the article. The video has a picture of Trump leaving his AF1 copter, BUT what happens when you open the link up ??? I get Mikes Minute. has Mikes ramble becoming such, that NZH now has to hijack other articles to push Mike ??
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11841400

      • McFlock 3.2.1
        20 April 2017 at 11:40 am

        Helicopter with president on it is Marine 1. Airforce one is the jet when the president is on it.

  4. ianmac 4
    20 April 2017 at 8:35 am

    Great to get good news sometimes.
    “Host Bill O’Reilly fired from Fox News.”

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    20 April 2017 at 8:48 am

    “Arrested Indian businessman received PM honour from John Key in 2011”

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/91711900/arrested-indian-businessman-received-pm-honour-in-2011

    “The Indian businessman was in 2011 awarded the Sir Edmund Hillary Fellowship by Key.

    The fellowship was described as a tribute to the special contribution made by Sir Edmund Hillary to New Zealand’s bilateral relationships with India and Nepal.

    Key said at the time Mallya was an outstanding businessman with a great affection for New Zealand.

    “He is a worthy recipient of the fellowship and will be a great asset in strengthening the longstanding and friendly ties between the two countries.

    “I will be delighted to welcome Vijay Mallya to New Zealand as the Prime Minister’s fellow.”

    • greywarshark 5.1
      20 April 2017 at 10:10 am

      Key obviously recognised a fellow financial speculator with a great affection for easy marks, as Key is himself. And Bob Parker was doing deals, part of the Deal-Making Club and I wonder who paid for the luxury dinner and why? Was giving the whisky to the billionaire Indian a matter of How to Make Friends and Influence People?

      IIndian authorities said Mallya fled to the United Kingdom last year in order to avoid arrest over alleged fraud surrounding the collapse of Kingfisher Airlines in 2012.
      Mallya was once a billionaire who made most of his money from Kingfisher beer and spirits, but owed an estimated US$2 billion (NZ$2.8b) to state-owned banks in India.

      More fool the Indian banks eh! But that’s their risk-taking judgment for you, while poorer people receive very close scrutiny when wanting a small loan. Also there is a tendency to regard airlines as a cash cow.

      Just digressing to another airline debacle and fall out after which nobody was dragged into Court to answer for it. NZ bought Ansett Airlines from Sir Peter Abeles who had put the airline into great debt using it as an asset to borrow against to develop a Great Barrier island I think Whitsunday which was not producing good returns. Also the airline had been run in an open pocket way with
      overgenerous conditions for pilots and pensions and little attempt to monitor profitability of some services which were subsidised by the company and possibly by concessions from the government.

      The Indian government is trying to hold their guy to account, but in NZ’s case, we had to cover our own mistakes and weather the hatred and bad publicity from the Oz people who wallowed in it to the extent that the Queensland government had to draw the line because NZs were not visiting the Gold Coast in their normal numbers. However the derision towards us has never been erased, and the constant decline in treatment of NZs continues.

    • Antoine 5.2
      20 April 2017 at 10:29 am

      > “Arrested Indian businessman received PM honour from John Key in 2011”

      oops!!

      A.

  6. BM 6
    20 April 2017 at 10:04 am

    Always wondered why Facebook bought Oculus rift.

    https://qz.com/962899/facebooks-vision-for-the-future-of-hanging-out-in-vr-is-very-sad-and-lonely/

    This is a very bad idea.

  7. Bearded Git 7
    20 April 2017 at 11:00 am

    According to Trevett the equal pay/non-poverty pay (are only women receiving this pay rise?) in the aged- care sector is all down to the brilliance of National and Andrew Little is just whinging. Talk about spin, spin and more spin.

    The Supreme Court and the unions forced this humane solution on the Gnats who decided (for cynical political reasons) to go along with it and claim credit for it towards the end of the process. Little was correct to say they were gragged “kicking and screaming” to the solution.

    Hang your head in shame Trevett-this is not journalism (see below).

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11841146

    • Fisiani 7.1
      20 April 2017 at 11:51 am

      Come July all that will be remembered is that the National government has delivered a massive pay rise and if you want a side order of tax cuts for a bigger purse each week you need to tick National.

      • McFlock 7.1.1
        20 April 2017 at 12:04 pm

        Planning on apologising for your lie from yesterday anytime soon, fizbert?

        • Fisiani 7.1.1.1
          20 April 2017 at 12:20 pm

          I never told a lie. Go back and read.

          • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1
            20 April 2017 at 12:40 pm

            I did. You lied about what Little said and whether his statement on taxes had any qualification. Two lies in one comment. You should apologise.

            • Fisiani 7.1.1.1.1.1
              20 April 2017 at 1:54 pm

              Are you claiming that Chicken ‘ s words do not amount to No New Taxes. If so you struggle with English

              [you do appear to be lying, so put up a cut and paste and a link to back up your claim – weka]

              • McFlock …
                20 April 2017 at 1:59 pm

                Which words? You still haven’t linked to any.

                The words I quoted certainly did not add up to an unequivocal guarantee of no new taxes. This was explained to you in very small words by others, not just myself.

                It is you who is abusing the basic meaning of English words, but I believe you are doing it intentionally. Therefore, you are a fucking liar.

                • RedLogix …
                  20 April 2017 at 2:11 pm

                  “fucking liar”

                  Which makes fizbert a polished political operative these days. And when you call him on it he gets to play ‘injured innocent’.

                  It’s a game.

      • Bearded Git 7.1.2
        20 April 2017 at 12:06 pm

        mmm Fisiani you are writing off the whole population as being stupid. My experience of people, even those not particularly engaged in politics, is that they can’t be fooled all of the time and the vast tide of lies over 9 years from the Nats and their ACT and MP pals will be reflected in the votes cast on 23rd Sept.

        • Fisiani 7.1.2.1
          20 April 2017 at 12:18 pm

          The vast majority are not stupid They know that times are good. They know that Bill English saved the economy and they know that they cannot trust Chicken’s tax promises. When National poll 50% plus will you blame that on stupidity. How arrogant.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.3
        20 April 2017 at 2:00 pm

        No, what will be remembered is the long years that National tried to prevent this from going through.

  8. Bill 8
    20 April 2017 at 11:32 am

    Al Qaeda just got invited to a give a “TED Talk” presentation in the UK.

    Here’s a link to some excerpts that, happily for them, ends in a fucking standing ovation.

    https://twitter.com/walid970721/status/854628261556621313

    The comments below the posted vid are absolutely worth the read especially, but not only, if the comments from ‘Conflict Watch’ hold up…

    edit – Same person – ie, Dr Rola Hallam? You decide.

    • weka 8.1
      20 April 2017 at 2:12 pm

      TED have her listed as Gardenia (if that’s the same talk),

      https://www.ted.com/tedx/events/22301

      • Bill 8.1.1
        20 April 2017 at 3:00 pm

        Yeah, she says in the talk that “Gardenia” is not her real name and goes on to claim that ‘White Helmets’ and their friends and families are targeted ‘daily’ by “the regime”…which is why she’s wearing 1960s sunglasses and a hat (nobly) for their protection – as opposed to her own when she disembarks from that next Syrian bound plane.

        She trots through all the usual talking points quite well. I’ll give her that 🙂

        Importantly, I should point out that I was a bit quick on reading the comments of ‘Conflict Watch’. They claim to know her, that she lives in Manchester and is related to or associated with Dr Rola Hallam, rather than actually being her. My bad.

        Regardless, continuing to give these fucks oxygen is beneath contempt.

        edit – here’s the link to the full youtube version. At 40secs she says she’s not Gardenia.

        interestingly, on the side bar I got another TEDTalks presentation, this time by Raed El Saleh – the spokesperson or front for the White Helmets. this is the same guy who wrote a lengthy op ed piece for the Guardian on the morning after that supposed chemical attack. Now, given that he doesn’t speak english….

  9. Sanctuary 9
    20 April 2017 at 12:27 pm

    Reading through the press in the UK, I am amazed at how many Blairite liberal “Labour” voters (and remain voters) are so anti Corbyn and an actual left wing agenda and are so vindicitively and hysterically determined to get rid of him that they would prefer to give May and the mad Tories another term to completely trash the country than to vote Labour.

    And yet these Guardianista type pseuds insist on calling calling the Brexiters thick, short sighted and obsessed. Pot, kettle, black.

    • RedLogix 9.1
      20 April 2017 at 2:06 pm

      That was always the entire purpose of the Blairite vision, to ensure that a genuinely socialist party never attains power again. To that end it looks like they will be successful beyond their wildest dreams.

    • Ad 9.2
      20 April 2017 at 4:30 pm

      The Guardian is now the only major newspaper in the UK to help the left at all.

      You don’t have to be grateful, but remember how many newspapers used to back Labour fully only a decade ago?

    • McFlock 10.1
      20 April 2017 at 1:47 pm

      Probably find out that Labour’s hired a couple of political marketing consultants to crunch numbers and advise on strategy – maybe ex-dems from states/seats that won.

      And this has been blown up into floods of trump supporters being flown in as door-knockers (which, frankly, I’ll believe when I fucking see it). Quite glad Mana went with KDC – helped stop me voting for them last time.

      • marty mars 10.1.1
        20 April 2017 at 2:10 pm

        Will be interesting to see if your scenario is anywere near the truth.

        • weka 10.1.1.1
          20 April 2017 at 2:14 pm

          Me too. I like HH a lot, but that Mana News piece is a diatribe without much else in it 🙁

        • McFlock 10.1.1.2
          20 April 2017 at 2:24 pm

          It does sound a bit odd to fly in “large numbers” of phone canvassers (my mistake) from the US, though.

          I suppose option B is that they’ve contracted an overseas call centre.

          • marty mars 10.1.1.2.1
            20 April 2017 at 2:29 pm

            It seemed well overcooked whatever is happening.

            • Karen 10.1.1.2.1.1
              20 April 2017 at 2:51 pm

              I’d love to know who wrote it. Although it includes quotes from Hone I can’t imagine that these are real – Hone isn’t that stupid.

              It does Mana (and Hone by association) no credit to publish idiotic claims like these.

              • Bill …
                20 April 2017 at 3:22 pm

                It’s gone out as a press release.

                I think it’s quite funny on the assumption he’s deliberately exaggerating as a way to rip the piss. (Ie – Corkscrewing some plan to use US telephone canvassers or a US based canvassing firm)

                • Karen …
                  20 April 2017 at 3:42 pm

                  I think (but don’t know for sure) that Labour is trying out an automated canvassing system that is similar to one used by the Democrats. Goff did it to a certain degree for the mayorality. I don’t think Michael Wood used it but I saw a few people commenting that they’d had an automated message from Jacinda Ardern.

                  Personally I don’t think that works very well in NZ – my response when I get a computer generated voice is to hang up immediately, and I can’t imagine that I am alone.

              • Karen …
                20 April 2017 at 3:25 pm

                This seems to be the basis of it:
                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11841952

                It seems to be based on the usual invitation to social democratic parties who want to observe an overseas campaign – Labour Party people have done this for years in UK. Australia, Canada and USA. So not employed by Labour, not Trump supporters …. and too many other lies to bother with, but the state house one really annoyed me. Labour has done some really reprehensible things from time to time but selling off state houses isn’t one of them.

                • McFlock …
                  20 April 2017 at 3:35 pm

                  heh.

                  Hone’s just brewing a storm in a Te Tai Tokerau cup…

                • marty mars …
                  20 April 2017 at 8:21 pm

                  Thanks karen that clears it up – Hone probably has some basis from history in being a wee bit paranoid and he does like to stir it up – could be a good move early on maybe perhaps…

      • Spikeyboy 10.1.2
        20 April 2017 at 7:21 pm

        Didnt stop me and will do so again this year. The only party that takes seriously people at the outside margins of society

    • Jenny Kirk 10.2
      20 April 2017 at 6:54 pm

      “And Labour’s Maori MPs don’t even know what’s going on, just like they didn’t know about Willie Jackson being dropped in to push them off the list” said Harawira”

      This is a total nonsense. I just heard directly from Kelvin Davis last night that it was the Labour Maori MPs decision to go off the list and they had to PERSUADE the Party heirachy to allow this to happen.

      So presumably the rest of the article is a nonsense as well.

      Labour is not importing Trump supporters – don’t be daft – we couldn’t afford them!

      All Labour’s funds are going towards a proper election campaign.

  13. McFlock 13
    20 April 2017 at 3:29 pm

    Interesting article on Stuff predicting doom for UK Labour.

    Basically they’re saying Labour stand to lose 50 to 100 seats, even worse than 1983.

    A couple of things spring to mind: Thatcher was coming off a war, May is coming off a divisive brexit vote and years of disorganised tory rule.

    secondly, Labour at 1/3 of the seats is probably approaching its realistic low point in an FPP system. Do the conservatives really have much more support possible? I suspect a “diminishing returns” scenario applies.

    Plumetting to 130-180 seats is possible – anything is possible – but is it realistic? And if Labour lose ten seats but libdems/snp gain forty, retuning May with a diminished majority, that’s hardly an overwhelming mandate for the brutalbrexit she wants.

    • Bill 13.1
      20 April 2017 at 3:47 pm

      There is always the possibility for immense ‘blow-back’. May has a huge poll lead with (until now) no prospect of change for a few years. Does that popularity hold up when an alternative is presented?

      If anything is to be learned from Sanders and possibly Mélenchon…

      Anyway. my one remaining bug-bear is that Corbyn just does. not. get. what has happened in Scotland, and is yet again rebuffing any suggestion of working with the SNP – going so far as to dismiss them as ‘right wing’ 🙄

      If Labour get buried in next month’s Scottish local body elections, it really is over for them north of Hadrian’s Wall… there are people who vote Labour in Scottish elections but SNP in UK elections – or at least that was the case.

      Anyway, dumping all over a party that might get about 59 seats and that most of the lost Labour vote now supports, appears bloody stupid from where I sit.

      • McFlock 13.1.1
        20 April 2017 at 4:16 pm

        I agree that Labour need to work with SNP. It’s a process, but the need get over it pdq.

        To be fair, she got a big brexit boost, and Labour have languished since then.

        Trouble with FPP is that so much of it rests on individual seat campaigns, as well. But if the tories can be knocked down by a couple of dozen seats…

        • Wayne 13.1.1.1
          20 April 2017 at 5:42 pm

          For the Conservatives to have a reduced majority would represent an extraordinary retreat from the current polling. It would be a much larger shift than the Trump win, where the popular vote was not that much different to the polls.

          May would have to loose around 10% from her current poll position. That is unheard of.

          More likely the Brits will admire her pluck and give her a better majority than the current 17, which is clearly difficult. They will want a government with a clear workable majority. Especially considering the alternative.

          So I reckon she will get a majority of greater than 50. Labour won’t do as badly as predicted, but could easily go under 200 (a loss of 29 seats or more). Lib Dems will do better than their current 9, probably around 25 or so.

          I also reckon SNP will loose seats to the Conservatives, probably 5 to 10. SNP will still be the third largest party, and would have 80% of the seats in Scotland, rather than the 95% they currently have.

          • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1
            20 April 2017 at 6:01 pm

            Reasonable argument, but it’s FPP and there’s always the possibility some pollsters have overcompensated from their results before the previous election.

            It explains why May is calling the election, but It’s all still up in the air, and politics fatigue might just have a backlash.

            What the polls do over the next couple of weeks will be interesting, whether they rally around May or start to slide.

          • Bill 13.1.1.1.2
            20 April 2017 at 11:38 pm

            Just been watching a bit of Corbyn. He can do this.

            Labour will tank in Scotland, but that’s Dugdale and a whole situation that is completely divorced from anything in England and Wales.

            Corbyn will take England and Wales or at worst ‘do a Sanders’…ie, come within a baw hair.

            As for this suggestion that the Tories will take between 5 and 10 seats in Scotland…if you weren’t an ex-MP Wayne, I’d suggest you needed to re-appraise. But you’re an ex-MP and that means you’re just irreconcilably out of touch.

            The liberal politics you were a part of are either dead or dying just about everywhere you look. That’s why people (misguidedly) voted Trump. That’s why people backed Sanders. That’s why the SNP killed Scottish Labour. That’s why the Canadian Liberals opted to outflank The New Democratic Party on the left. That’s why Mélenchon is coming up ‘from nowhere’ in France.

            And it’s the inability of people like yourself to see the wall, never mind read the writing on the wall, that leads to this establishment shock and puzzlement about what’s happening. And, like I say – it’s happening everywhere.

  14. Muttonbird 14
    20 April 2017 at 4:15 pm

    What kind of screwed up system are we using to measure inflation when cigarette tax increase is a major contributor but surging rent costs are not?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/91738865/inflation-jumps-above-2-per-cent-as-petrol-prices-and-tobacco-tax-rise

  15. Skeptic 15
    20 April 2017 at 6:30 pm

    I notice our nice neighbours across the ditch have just stuck it to Kiwis living there again, When are we going to get a government with balls enough to pass legislation that automatically reciprocates other countries rules against their citizens living in our country – ie apply Aussie rules to Occers living here. We could call it “The Reciprocity Law” and use it to mirror image all other countries enactments against their own citizens visiting us. Sound like “leveling the playing field”?

    • Red 15.1
      20 April 2017 at 7:54 pm

      I would much rather government that makes laws that are best for nz, not based on silly tit for tat Be pretty hard to keep up with every country adopting your policy

    • RedLogix 15.2
      20 April 2017 at 8:09 pm

      Turnbull’s changes to the SC 457 visa do not have any current impact on the SC 444 visa that applies to New Zealanders:

      https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/444-

      Unless it’s something else you have in mind?

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.