Open mike 21/04/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 21st, 2023 - 66 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

66 comments on “Open mike 21/04/2023 ”

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  1. Sanctuary 1
    21 April 2023 at 7:59 am

    No One comes out of the IPCA report on the parliament occupation looking particularly good. The vacuum of decisive leadership at the top of the police appears to have been extraordinary. Mallard it seems to be was indecisive when he needed to act swiftly and then became a complete tool – maybe driven by frustration with the police. But Andrew Coster in particular provides us all with a case study on how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. After listening to a lot of commentary, I think his leadership was weak, his force was disorganised and there was a complete failure of imagination at the top of the police force hierarchy.

    Weak because he prevaricated and vacillated in his advice to political leadership, who it seems to me (reading between the lines) were incredibly frustrated by his lack of decision. Disorganised because the police seem to lack a coherent set of public order policing protocols – different police commands negotiating independently of each other was keystone cops level of farcical. And a complete failure of imagination because (and this has been IMHO a consistent theme running through police failures to maintain public order at culture-war inspired events) he seems to fail to grasp the essentially seditious nature of these protest, the level of conspiracy fed bad faith and mistrust, and the likely outcomes of encouraging such people for as long as the police did. I mean, how was it the police – who should have had suspected it may end in a riot – did not have sufficient riot equipment available? When community policing ends and you must resort to compliance policing then all police doctrines recommend the use of overwhelming force to squash any resistance before it even forms. Sending poorly equipped officers out to deal with paranoid conspiracy theorists spoiling for a fight could have ended in deaths. And the claim the police lacked sufficient gear is tosh, and more evidence of failure of leadership and imagination. They had three weeks to plan for the potential need for a compliance response. In a world awash with authoritarian regimes and those willing to supply them, is Coster really claiming they couldn't source a hundred sets of riot gear in a hurry?

    The buck stops with Coster.

    • Ad 1.1
      21 April 2023 at 8:13 am

      Surely the buck stops with the elected politicians who are paid at minimum $170k to turn up to Parliament and face up to the consequences of their own laws popular or unpopular.

      The fact that not a single member of government or Cabinet or the Green or Labour caucuses fronted up to speak to them is the most monumental failure of courage let alone democratic principle.

      And for counterfactual: at the Foreshore and Seabed hikoi over a decade ago, which had at least as much spit and fury as Wellington's mandate shuffle, plenty of MPs and Ministers fronted and were given the grief they expected about their own policy and their own legislation.

      Leader Ardern failing to front is in particular weak, and Chief Coster ain't so much as taking water for this one.

      • weka 1.1.1
        21 April 2023 at 8:33 am

        the main difference between the parliament occupation and the F/S hikoi was that the latter were issuing death threats to MPs or wanting to storm the citadel. It's not being given grief that was the problem.

        The other problem was the lack of coherency from the anti-mandate protestors in what they wanted, along with the nature of some of the demands. I'm all for political anarchy eg the original Occupy movements having no leaders, where that's part of strategy and movement building. But that's not what the anti-mandate protestors were doing. They were a mix of reactionary dangerous people, peace and love hippies, and politically naive proto-activists who didn't know what they were doing politically (the occupation itself was impressively organised though).

        • Ad 1.1.1.1
          21 April 2023 at 8:54 am

          The differences only occurred because of the difference in political approach.

          If the hikoi had not been engaged fully by politicians, you would have had the same result as the anti-mandate Parliamentary protest.

          Every protest turns into a rabble if they're spurned.

          • weka 1.1.1.1.1
            21 April 2023 at 9:14 am

            Every protest turns into a rabble if they're spurned.

            No, they really don't. Experienced protestors know how to work with that and turn it to their advantage.

            • Ad 1.1.1.1.1.1
              21 April 2023 at 9:29 am

              The Hikoi was as a result of the worst policy of that Labour government, were experienced and well led, but didn't get what they wanted. Out of it formed The Maori Party.

              The anti-mandate protest was as a result of the worst policy of this Labour government, but its political mishandling went most of the way to tank Labour's popularity and then getting the Prime Minister to resign.

              You can decide how that is attributable to whether the different organisers were 'experienced' or not.

              • Anker …
                21 April 2023 at 10:11 am

                Ad again I agree with you.

                The handling of the parliamentary protest and the contempt Labour displayed for citizens (e.g. Trevor Mallard and his childish antics) with very geniune concerns about a law Labour had brought in was one of many turning points for me. And I was and still am very stronly pro vaccine.

                I disagreed with a lot of what the protesters were saying at the time (I have since re-thought the mandates), but I absolutely thought they had a geniune right to be there.

                • Nic the NZer …
                  21 April 2023 at 11:04 am

                  The Trevor Mallard part of the story is a media beat-up. By the time Trevor Mallard is involved at all (on the 11th) the police have arrested 120 people on the 10th already.

                  To put it in perspective, on the 13th of February Cyclone Dovi dumped up to 150mm of rain on Kelburn. The sprinklers likely dumped 5mm of water on Parliament grounds.

                  • Anker …
                    21 April 2023 at 2:33 pm

                    Nic, I remember the weekend well and my memory is that is was very early on in the protest. They may have arrested people already, pretty sure I saw the live stream, police trying to move the protesters back, protesters holding their line.

                    It was a vey wet weekend, but perhaps it is not the amount of water, but the origins of the water. The storm was just weather doing its thing. Turning on the sprinklers was a deliberate act by Mallard, childish and treating citizens with contempt. The loud unpopular music was disgusting, played at night to disturb people and send them packing.

                    What an idiot Mallard looked.

              • Ed1 …
                21 April 2023 at 4:57 pm

                The Labour Government's Covid policies, including related mandates, were far from the worst policy of this Labour Government; they were very successful policies that saved lies. While some of the protestors focussed on that issue, many appeared to be really seeking to protest the concept of democratic government- they were seeking to make government more difficult and to incite violence. There clearly were different organisers with different aims – many of the more moderate left as they became very much a minority in the protest groups. The reality is that New Zealand saved lives, and saved our economy, under extraordinary circumstances.

          • Sanctuary 1.1.1.1.2
            21 April 2023 at 9:28 am

            There is a big difference between Mensheviks and Bolsheviks.

          • Mike the Lefty 1.1.1.1.3
            21 April 2023 at 5:50 pm

            When they are an incoherent rabble from the start then it makes no difference whether you engage them or not, they are not capable of listening and taking anything in, so why bother?

        • Anker 1.1.1.2
          21 April 2023 at 10:07 am

          I remeber Maui, I think his name was, who used to comment on the Standard, providing a link from an article that showed the protesters had established four different representatives of the various groups to meet with MP.s . This could have happened. It would have shown good faith by the govt towards its own citizens.

          They didn't storm Parliament. They were there for 28 days or so. They could have. They didn't.

          Never approve of death threats. But perhaps a good reason to meet with the reasonable people at the protest to calm things down..

          I have to make a comment on the utter hypocracy of all the professional managerial class who utterly villified the people at parliament and have turned a complete blind eye to the viciousness and violence at Albert Park against a group of women there for a peaceful event about women's rights.

          • weka 1.1.1.2.1
            21 April 2023 at 10:20 am

            yes, there were some groups that formed to meet with the MPs, but my memory was that there were still problems around demands and not pushing back against the death threats in their own protest.

            And it wasn't just death threats. It was insurrection death threats against a democratically elected government. Do I really need to spell out the problems with that? Are you saying that it's ok to threaten insurrection so long as you don't do it? How would parliament know if they were going to do it or not?

            My best guess is that one of the core issues was how to manage security. Certainly meeting on the steps of parliament wasn't safe. If they were to meet in a room somewhere, what level of security would be needed? Body searches and body guards?

            This is the consequence of the people wanting to meet not dealing with the death and insurrection threats in their own movement. It's similar to KJK not making a statement immediately after Melbourne telling the world that the neo Nazis could fuck off. It you want to be taken seriously, you have to act with integrity. And that means a hard no to Nazis and insurrection. Because both are anti-democratic.

            I agree there were all sorts of problems with how parliament and the police and the public responded to the protests. But that doesn't negate any of the above.

            • Ad 1.1.1.2.1.1
              21 April 2023 at 1:55 pm

              So many tiresome rhetorical questions.

              You will always win the Godwin Award for mentioning NAZIs the fastest.

              Here's how to badly manage a major protest:

              – Ignore them for months and deny anything is wrong, even if it is a force of new law untested for a century against basic employment rights

              – Vilify them in the mainstream media using the power of being a Minister or Cabinet Minister, especially using state run media

              – Alert all state security agencies to Stand Up, and presume everything they say is a direct threat to you

              – Send the Police in to surround them, cut all services off, trespass them, turn on blaring music and lawn sprinklers to soak them

              – Refuse to deal with anything they want to talk about, ban any public official to engage with them, ban any of your government or your MPs to engage with them

              – Encourage the Police to clear them out by all means necessary

              – Then keep blaming the victims as if they had all the power all along, deny you did nothing wrong, deny you had all the power, promulgate that they were the ones threatening society and that you were utterly right in doing all of the above.

              – All of this 50 metres away from where every citizen ought to have their concerns considered

              This is just the most egregious form of what this government has done really badly, namely, ignore public opposition to what people view as their way of life:

              – Massive new farming regulations generated the unprecedented One Howl Of A Protest, multiple times. This has resulted in the RMA reforms being dumped and other regulations delayed

              – Massive protests against new water governance and water quality legislation. This generated a massive last minute Third Reading backdown by the Green and Maori Party to support the legislation and got the Number 6 minister fired from her job and demoted.

              If at any point there's a National-Act government and they put the carbon trading act and the water reforms and the farming reforms and the disability reforms on the block and you want to get to Parliament to stop them, this is what you can expect.

              • Corey …
                21 April 2023 at 5:58 pm

                I actually agree.

                I originally thought they every right to protest but then got swept up in the hate and vilification of the protesters.

                I always thought the way the mandates were rolled out were unkind.

                The way the government,media and mainstream activists spoke of people with concerns was unhelpful and at time nasty.

                The prime minister saying there will be two classes of NZers and scoffing at those opposed to the mandates from the beginning was deeply ill-advised and unhelpful.

                Mallard's actions were disgraceful and he gave them a common enemy.

                Sooo many 2020 labour voters and life long labour voters went from loving jacinda to hating her because of the mandates.

                It was very authoritarian, it was very condescending, there was no dialogue or debate or concern shown to people with concerns and the MOH went against many gps advice by declining gps requests for patients to be exempt.

                You can't lock people down forever, say be kind, force mandates on them, refuse to exempt people whose doctors advise they shouldn't get it, be seen to be trying to take away peoples right to work and then refuse any debate or dialogue and demonize people and childly escalate protests.

                There was a lot of bad on both sides

                But the way the media and beltway reacted from day one to these people was disgusting and escalated it.

                This govts biggest failure has been dialogue with people they disagree with

                If the beltway was shocked by that protest though…. If something like the great depression happens again, the NZ belt way will be shocked by how angry hungry people get.

            • Anker 1.1.1.2.1.2
              21 April 2023 at 2:37 pm

              No they absolutely shouldn't have met them on parliament steps.

              KJK did make a statement about the Nazis. Did you think she made it too late? It was in the newspaper here before she arrived.

              It seems like we have a difference of opinion on whether politicians should have met with the protesters or not. We know what happened that they didn't. I guess we don't know what the outcome could have been if they did

              • weka …
                21 April 2023 at 2:43 pm

                KJK did make a statement about the Nazis. Did you think she made it too late? It was in the newspaper here before she arrived.

                Yes. She did an after LWS video event with some of the women who spoke and she should have addressed it then. From memory it wasn't until a day later that she did an interview with NZH and she said something then. It came across as her realising it might count against her in the visa hearing if she didn't distance herself from the Nazis. I don't believe she did it because it was the right thing to do, but rather because it was politically expedient for her to do so.

                It seems like we have a difference of opinion on whether politicians should have met with the protesters or not. We know what happened that they didn't. I guess we don't know what the outcome could have been if they did

                This still doesn't address the issues of MPs meeting with a group that allowed and tolerated insurrectionist death threats. It was only a year after the US Capitol attack. The idea that it didn't matter before they didn't do it here in NZ is unsound. It's like saying the US Capitol attack wasn't that bad because they didn't manage to murder people. But they intended to.

                • weka …
                  21 April 2023 at 2:44 pm

                  which is to say, I'd have way less of a problem with the government MPs meeting with some of the protest groups if those groups had dealt with the insurrection and death threats in their own camp. They didn't. The ball was in their court and they failed.

          • Nic the NZer 1.1.1.2.2
            21 April 2023 at 10:58 am

            They didn't manage to storm parliament, most didn't try, but that's a most, some did. Brett Powers and two others attempted to do so on day 2 (7th) of the time-line which was the first day they were at parliament, he claimed he was intending to 'arrest' Andrew Little, a statement which should clearly by taken to mean a kid-napping intent. People suggesting that Trevor Mallard's input directed the protest group towards a particular kind of political engagement should explain how this works considering he enters the story first on the 11th. The police have already arrested 120 people on the 10th by this stage.

            The other thing worth discussing about the protest group is how Brian Tamaki was clearly excluded from the protest group, but subsequently went on to hold multiple non-violent anti-vaccine protests after (and before) without real issue. And how the original organizers left early after finding many of the protesters beliefs differed from what they thought the protest should be about.

            • Ad 1.1.1.2.2.1
              21 April 2023 at 1:57 pm

              None of the arrests would have been necessary if the politicians had done their job and fronted in the first place.

              • Nic the NZer …
                21 April 2023 at 2:02 pm

                You wouldn't have arrested Brett Powers?

              • aj …
                21 April 2023 at 8:38 pm

                …and fronted in the first place

                We'll never know but I'd bet some would have been unable to contain their rage and at a minimum things would start to be thrown.

              • Stuart Munro …
                22 April 2023 at 6:09 am

                There were a large number of deeply misguided, foreign instigated dupes that meant to "arrest" ministers and conduct a "Nuremburg style" trial – a carbon copy of insurrectionists in Canada and the US.

                They were criminal, not civil, and should have been cleared off (or interdicted) immediately. Bad faith operators like Counterspin fomented the riot, meeting government would only have further emboldened them.

                But let's be real – Labour governments have done infinitely worse. The chiefest of their sins is kicking the neoliberal can further down the road, instead of dealing with the long term damage for which they are ultimately responsible.

                As we head into a winter of discontent, neither housing nor cost of living has been meaningfully addressed. Like Clark, Labour seems to want to fight the election on identity politics. It's Luxon's best hope.

            • Anker 1.1.1.2.2.2
              21 April 2023 at 2:17 pm

              I stand corrected about Brett et al…..

              I hope Brett Powers and two others were arrested and faced appropriate charges. I absolutely condemn that sort of behaviour.

      • Anker 1.1.2
        21 April 2023 at 9:54 am
        • Ad I totally agree with you. The govt brought in laws to mandate the vaccine. It meant a significant number of people lost their jobs. I thought Labour was supposed to be the party of working people.

        yes there were some bad actors there, but most had a genuine grievance.

        And by September all the mandates were gone. The documentary boiling point is excellent and makes this point at the end.

        I believe the anti social, violent people at the end were anti authority opportunists.

        what really concerns me is how we have marginalised that sector of the population, policemen, teachers, nurses, a psychiatrist, a bee keeper. These were just some of the people who were thereto protest because they had lost their jobs. Michael Wood with his River of Filth comment. (Not to mention his comment about Posie Parker that she has an incorrect world view, a very 1984 statement). A significant number of people at parliament protests were Labour and Greens voters. Labour and The Greens have likely lost these voters and rightly so. Again Seymour to my knowledge was the only MP who tried to reach out to people.

        Btw I am fully vaxxed.

        • Incognito 1.1.2.1
          21 April 2023 at 10:27 pm

          A much more ‘significant number’ complied with the mandates and kept their jobs.

          A more ‘significant number’ were not Labour or Green voters or no-voters.

          Feel free to support your reckons with hard stats.

          FYI, Michael Wood’s remarks in Parliament about “River of Filth” referred to the views & ideologies of what you euphemistically downplayed as “some bad actors”.

          I love what you did with the narrative there, BTW.

          • weka 1.1.2.1.1
            21 April 2023 at 10:33 pm

            FYI, Michael Wood’s remarks in Parliament about “River of Filth” referred to the views & ideologies of what you euphemistically downplayed as “some bad actors”.

            This is true, but it was still a political mistake. People were always going to take it personally and it would have been possible to name the problems with the ideologies without using such a loaded phrase.

            • Incognito 1.1.2.1.1.1
              22 April 2023 at 9:10 am

              Some people, more than before thanks to the increased levels of polarisation, have turned it into a collective art form to try fitting every shoe they know will hurt & offend them. The ‘pay-offs’ are diverse, but major reasons for this behaviour are to induce feelings of anger and similar. This allows & enables those people to respond accordingly and in fluctuating manner, they act as angry aggressor & defender or as angry victim-defender. Of course, this does not take place in a vacuum and (social) isolation.

              To justify and support the above, people twist or create their own narratives, as always. And they close their eyes & ears to facts & info that don’t fit with or suit their narratives aka bias. I see the same commenters here on TS regurgitating the same narratives, time after time, like an old broken record stuck in a groove.

              So, I’m going to once again present the facts, knowing full-well that those with entrenched opinions won’t change their narrative and thinking.

              What did Michael Wood say and not say on 16 February 2023 in Debate on Prime Minister's Statement (https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20220216_20220216_16)?

              He addressed the Members of and in the House about their role in what was unfolding at the time:

              I want to talk about something else very serious in this respect. I've been concerned by some of the drifting rhetoric I've heard from members opposite in this House about the events in the occupation that we see out the front. The words I say now I say with some precision and I say really carefully, because I think we need to take great care with this. Out the front of this place, there are people who I think we all feel for. There are some people who are confused, there are some people who are scared, there are some people who have been manipulated by an avalanche of misinformation. There are some people who have been hurt over the past couple of years and they're lashing out. We feel for those people.

              Wood aimed the rhetoric from certain people out the front of Parliament and the associated rhetoric by certain Members of the House.

              He then specifically named that rhetoric, six (6) of those ‘rivers’:

              But underneath all of that, there is a river of filth. There is a river of violence and menace. There is a river of anti-Semitism. There is a river of Islamophobia. There is a river of threats to people who work in this place and our staff. Those are things that we should not in any way be condoning, things that we should be apologists for, things that we should be overlooking with the rhetoric that it's all just good people and maybe we should talk about it and maybe we should put the mandates up for negotiation. I would say that there is a river of genuine fascism in parts of the event that we see out the front of this Parliament today. I just urge colleagues in this House—decent and honourable members of the centre-right parliamentary parties in this Parliament—that a lot is actually on them to not give succour and comfort to an emergent and dangerous far-right movement. I just ask those members to reflect upon that.

              The last sentence is key here.

              I think this was a superb speech in Parliament directed at members of the Opposition. Almost immediately, people started to misinterpret it, twist it, and weaponise it to hit back at Government. The thing you do when somebody attacks you holding a weapon is to disarm them. Take the twisted narrative away from them and take the pin out of their flawed arguments. If anything, it will sort the wheat from the chaff, which is useful info for TS Mods.

      • Anne 1.1.3
        21 April 2023 at 10:46 am

        Ad @ 1.1
        Your suggestion that Ardern failed to front up because she was weak is ignoring reality. She was told not to front up by her security detail. That 'detail' would have known of the existence of threats etc. that the rest of us never get to hear about.

        Although she was the primary target, no doubt ministers, MPs were also told to stay away. I note you only mention Green and Labour caucus members. That is a bit disingenuous because my recollection is: no members of National or ACT turned up either. If I'm wrong someone will correct me.

        Winston Peters paid them a visit but he's not a parliamentarian any more.

        • Ad 1.1.3.1
          21 April 2023 at 2:00 pm

          OK she could have waved her hankie from the balcony. Yoo-hoo!

          Here's who would have fronted up to it: Kirk, Muldoon, Lange, Palmer, Bolger, Clark, and even probably Key.

          • weka 1.1.3.1.1
            21 April 2023 at 2:47 pm

            which if those MPs met with protestors wanting to kill them?

            Muldoon of course had the Red Squad, so it's more likely he would have moved the protestors on in the first few days.

          • newsense 1.1.3.1.2
            21 April 2023 at 3:59 pm

            Oh Bullshit Ad.

            I remember Sandra Lee facing down a bunch of miners. Muldoon would have sent the red squad.

            The absolute bullshit, first from Claire Trevett:

            ‘Writes the Herald’s Claire Trevett in a must-read analysis of the report’s findings (paywalled), “That decision was prompted by a puzzling naivety, given even shifting a bollard had resulted in confrontation and violence. It appears to have been based on the deluded hope that despite all evidence… the protest group could still be reasoned with.”’

            Then I find it here.

            First they said you know, there were some good people, despite the tiki torches. Mountainous BS, every article said you should have simply talked to them and that would have solved everything. Christ, we’re seeing the other mainstream party select people who genuinely compare JA to a Nazi. The loyal opposition, not the burn-it-all-down nutbars.

            Now the Nats, mainstream media and apparently some here think- oh you can’t negotiate with people making up imaginary laws that justify your execution so that was the mistake. You shouldn’t have listened to them even a little. Even though we’d be slamming you for the opposite, we’ve now contorted ourselves to say the exact opposite of what we’ve been saying.

            We’ve seen a lot of right wing revisionism to say whatever you did was wrong and we’d have done it right.

    • Nic the NZer 1.2
      21 April 2023 at 8:16 am

      Yep. This kind of thing would never have happened in China. The army would have been sent in, tanks and all.

    • bwaghorn 1.3
      21 April 2023 at 8:51 am

      I think it was handled well, from the outside looking in.

      The most likely outcome once all the loons got established was a full on riot through the streets of Wellington, so the fact they were contained then removed with only moderate damage was a victory,

      I get sick of ivory tower reviews.

  2. Descendant Of Smith 2
    21 April 2023 at 8:24 am

    Another example of why the PAYE deducted from employee wages (as well as student loan payments) by employers should be automatically paid on payday to IRD. That money belongs to the employee not the employer.

    It is also a nightmare to sort out from the employees end as well.

    “It had not filed GST returns, nor paid GST returns, nor income tax for close to six years, and not met PAYE obligations for a little over one year,” Williams said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131824326/construction-firm-didnt-pay-gst-for-six-years-before-entering-administration

  3. Joe90 3
    21 April 2023 at 8:32 am

    Bit like Stephen Jack's political career.

    https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1649048306503536641

    • weka 3.1
      21 April 2023 at 8:49 am

      what a phenomenal waste of resources, energy, creativity and time. What happened to the post-explosion pollution? It's like the climate and ecological crises don't exist.

    • Sanctuary 3.2
      21 April 2023 at 8:57 am

      I couldn't work out all the cheering. I was like, was it meant to blow up?

      • weka 3.2.1
        21 April 2023 at 10:10 am

        apparently it was a test, so when the test blew up it was ok to cheer because it's all about the learning. They get to try and not blow something else up in another few months.

    • Ad 3.3
      21 April 2023 at 9:18 am

      The Tesla share price is now the same as it was in October 2020, and still heading south this morning.

      As if Henry Ford had invested 5% of his worth into the Hindenburg programme.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+share+price+now&rlz=1C1GCEB_enNZ1041NZ1041&oq=Tesla+share+price+now&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j0i22i30l9.3966j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

      Tesla investors must surely be crazy.

      • RedLogix 3.3.1
        21 April 2023 at 9:31 am

        As test flights go – especially for the first of a type – the engineers will be more than happy. It flew quite long enough to have obtained masses of data and valuable lessons.

        I was yarning with a colleague just yesterday the difference between engineering and management. We see anything that goes wrong as a valuable chance to fix it; management thinking types either want to pretend it didn’t happen or look for someone else to blame.

        • Ad 3.3.1.1
          21 April 2023 at 9:50 am

          If, if there were a use for the 1% in this world, it would be to be able to burn the really high R&D shielded from taxpayer scrutiny.

          I'm struggling otherwise to defend Elon Musk's moral worth in this universe.

      • joe90 3.3.2
        21 April 2023 at 10:55 am

        Tesla's P/E tells the story. It's a cult.

      • bwaghorn 3.3.3
        21 April 2023 at 12:44 pm

        I see a lot of tesla on the rd, must be doing something right.

        • weka 3.3.3.1
          21 April 2023 at 1:39 pm

          it's capitalism. It won't save us from climate change.

          • bwaghorn 3.3.3.1.1
            21 April 2023 at 3:28 pm

            People will not willingly live with less, even if it kills them , science is the only palatable cure.

            • weka 3.3.3.1.1.1
              21 April 2023 at 7:45 pm

              there are all sorts of people who are already willing to live with less, whole movements of them. And then there are the people who are forced to by circumstance.

              Cyclone Gabrielle taught us that putting all our eggs in the EV replacing ICE BAU basket is a nonsense.

  4. tsmithfield 4
    21 April 2023 at 9:03 am

    How could this have been allowed to go this far?

    How is it possible that a large business could trade for six years without paying GST?

    IRD needs to answer some serious questions about this.

  5. Belladonna 5
    21 April 2023 at 9:12 am

    This is not good news about TWO failing to deliver a coherent plan to deliver on actual front line medical services (Yanno, the health crisis, that the Minister doesn't want to call a health crisis)

    When the major health unions/organizations (senior and junior doctors, nurses and allied medical staff) are saying there is a whole lot of talk, and little or no action, either short term (winter is coming) or long term (building healthy resilience in the system)

    Senior and junior doctors say the Government’s national workforce task force set up months ago with fanfare has not delivered.

    They say it is not even clear what is being done to avert the most immediate threat – another winter of crisis for GPs and hospitals.

    The Government last August laid out measures it said were just the start of a national workforce plan.

    The 12-member task force followed with a pledge to focus on areas requiring “immediate attention” and on substantive improvements.

    It has since set up six professional working groups and 20 profession steering groups.

    But nine months on, as the task force chair steps down, Dr Deborah Powell of the junior doctors’ union – the Resident Doctors’ Association – has been left struggling to see what has been achieved.

    Further quotes:

    • “I can safely say it was tokenism. We just didn’t get a chance,”
    • “We were part of one medical engagement group which met twice and achieved nothing,”
    • “As far as I can tell, none of this has happened.”
    • “Let’s be blunt here. To the best of my knowledge, it hasn’t achieved anything.”
    • "…a process of ‘magical thinking’ about what the future might look like– with no real ties to our current state.”"

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/taskforce-failing-to-deliver-health-staff-gaps-say-doctors/WWYIMJ2Q55GK7EFSUYDQCHHTE4/

  6. Bearded Git 6
    21 April 2023 at 9:36 am

    Environment Minister David Parker, in proposing new planning shortcuts to help the giant energy corporations, said yesterday:

    “Where you have outstanding landscapes, for example, which are seen to be required to be protected to the maximum extent, it has effectively prevented wind farms from being developed in places that we need them. Now, that’s not to say that every significant landscape should have a wind farm on it, but it does say that there are some distractions from visual amenity that we’re going to have to put up with as a country if we’re going to get the renewable generation that we need.”

    Parker is proposing to put thousands of industrial wind-towers all over NZ's Outstanding Natural Landscape.

    This should be fought tooth and nail.

    https://www.politik.co.nz/parker-sidesteps-his-own-legislation/

    [link added]

    • Ad 6.1
      21 April 2023 at 9:40 am

      Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die.

      What part of the discussion paper worries you?

      • Bearded Git 6.1.1
        21 April 2023 at 10:36 am

        See my post below-there is no need to desecrate NZ’s Outstanding Natural Landscape with massive towers. There are onshore wind sites that are not within ONL and even then when visual effects are taken into account solar is better.

    • Molly 6.2
      21 April 2023 at 10:14 am

      If such proposals are weighted with climate change mitigation as a top priority, other considerations such as "Outstanding Natural Landscape" will naturally fall in weighting.

      This adjustment of current values is a necessary change – not just for non-environmentalists – but environmentalists and conservationists as well.

      • Bearded Git 6.2.1
        21 April 2023 at 10:33 am

        Not necessarily Molly. The advantage of solar is that it does not need to be located in elevated wind-prone areas, many of these sites being within Outstanding Natural Landscape. Solar could be spread across the Canterbury Plains for instance. Sheep/cattle can graze below the panels.

        In terms of cost solar is fast catching up on onshore wind and is cheaper than offshore…see below and remembering this info is 2 years old and solar will have further closed the gap on onshore wind.

        "The global weighted average levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) of new onshore wind projects added in 2021 fell by 15%, year‑on‑year, to USD 0.033/kWh, while that of new utility-scale solar PV fell by 13% year-on-year to USD 0.048/kWh and that of offshore wind declined 13% to USD 0.075/kWh. With only one concentrating solar power (CSP) plant commissioned in 2021, the LCOE rose 7% year-on-year to USD 0.114/kWh."

        The period 2010 to 2021 has witnessed a seismic improvement in the competitiveness of renewables. The global weighted average LCOE of newly commissioned utility‑scale solar PV projects declined by 88% between 2010 and 2021, whilst that of onshore wind fell by 68%, CSP by 68% and offshore wind by 60%."

        https://www.irena.org/publications/2022/Jul/Renewable-Power-Generation-Costs-in-2021

        • Ad 6.2.1.1
          21 April 2023 at 11:09 am

          There's plenty of Consented but unbuilt solar farms already.

          There are no consents for offshore wind farms in New Zealand, let alone built ones, and there won't be for well over a decade. We don't even have a regulatory framework to deal with them yet.

        • Molly 6.2.1.2
          21 April 2023 at 11:32 am

          Thanks for the links Bearded Git.

          The weighting I was referring to was weighting in terms of decision making for consents, investments, grants etc.

          If climate change mitigation is expected to be THE priority for all members of the public, authorities and governments, then others will naturally fall down the list. That doesn't mean that they should not be considered, just that they will be reduced in terms of weighting for those decisions.

    • weka 6.3
      21 April 2023 at 10:36 am

      please provide a link for that quote.

  7. joe90 7
    21 April 2023 at 2:32 pm

    The old man says that the under the table emerald mine in Zambia did indeed exist, a rapid unscheduled disassembly, the blue tick shemozzle, and now, this.

    So, Twitter decided to pull a DeviantArt move and change its Terms Of Services to include anything you post there on their AI dataset, to re-publish your art and benefit from it without your consent or compensation.

    TIME TO DELETE YOUR ART PORTFOLIO ON TWITTER

    https://mastodon.art/@Victor_el_DM/110229952694303511