Open mike 21/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, July 21st, 2014 - 307 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

307 comments on “Open mike 21/07/2014 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Paul 1
    21 July 2014 at 6:45 am

    How biased is the New Zealand media?

    Cunliffe
    “David Cunliffe says his Queenstown ski holiday has left him “recharged” and ready to take the battle to Prime Minister John Key in the two-month countdown to election day.”

    But the Labour leader threatens to be distracted by internal ill-discipline and criticisms over his judgment, including the holiday itself and a meeting last week with a prominent New Zealander given name suppression on charges of performing an indecent act.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11296559

    Key
    “Leaving the country in the hands of deputy Bill English, Prime Minister John Key took a holiday “selfie”, posted on Instagram yesterday by son Max.

    The photo was titled “pre-golf game”.

    Mr Key has taken 10 days out from his pre-election schedule for an overseas holiday. It is believed he is staying at his holiday home on the Hawaiian island of Maui.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11292899

    • Gosman 1.1
      21 July 2014 at 7:04 am

      A bit of context is missing from your analysis. Labour is not getting any traction in the polls and Cunliffe has not got as high a profile as Key. Labour may well have benefited from Cunliffe not going on holiday and working on the campaign. National has the flexibility not to have Key doing the same. Certainly there is disquiet amongst Labour MP’s and not amongst National. That is a story in itself.

      • SPC 1.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 7:12 am

        No one working long hours can perform at their best – their capability declines and their productivity diminishes.

        • JK 1.1.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 9:08 am

          Interestingly – informal polls in both Herald and Dom Post show majority of people thinking it okay for Cunliffe to take his holiday break. I think the media might have boobed on this issue – most people will think it sensible of him, and give him some sympathy/empathy on it.

          • Gosman 1.1.1.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 10:41 am

            Quite possibly so. I think they will be less sympathetic to him meeting with a sex offender though.

            • Hami Shearlie 1.1.1.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 5:20 pm

              The sex offender isn’t in the Labour Party though, is he? Far from it!

            • Murray Olsen 1.1.1.1.1.2
              22 July 2014 at 12:55 am

              I thought he met with an ex-National MP, if he met with anyone. Who was the sex offender, Gooseman?

      • lprent 1.1.2
        21 July 2014 at 7:32 am

        there is disquiet amongst Labour MP’s and not amongst National. That is a story in itself.

        Yeah. The persistent allegation of National paying their unwanted MPs off for $300k definitely needs looking at. It explains why so many of them have left so happily. But since it has been done as a backroom deal without the voters being involved, it does leave some questions about the role of the National party somewhat cloudy…

        There is also the question about where National is finding the money for this and their other extravagances over the last decade. They seem to have far more money floating around than their sources of published sources of income suggest that they should have.

        • Gosman 1.1.2.1
          21 July 2014 at 8:08 am

          You seem to be assuming that they have paid off the retiring MP’s. I thought $300 k was quite excessive especially considering Kim Dotcom’s donation to IMP of around 4 million was meant to have made them the highest funded party in NZ. Of course by all means look in to these allegations but it would be churlish to complain the media aren’t doing so if the left is also not doing so.

          • mickysavage 1.1.2.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 8:15 am

            Weird Gossman. What do you propose we do? Ring up National HQ and ask them “is there any truth to the rumour that retiring Nat MPs are being paid $300k to go?”

            • Gosman 1.1.2.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 8:57 am

              Why doesn’t an Opposition MP raise it at question time?

              • fender …
                21 July 2014 at 9:10 am

                Oh please just take Keys word as gospel. Nothing he says needs any investigation, he’s the purist of the pure and when he says a senior Labour MP is upset with Cunliffe taking three days to recharge just believe him will you…

                • Gosman …
                  21 July 2014 at 9:25 am

                  Ummmm… I believe I stated that this should be investigated and highlighted one way this could be done. Why doesn’t an Opposition MP ask a question about it?

                  • fender …
                    21 July 2014 at 9:40 am

                    Nah, Keys word is enough for me and the media, how dare you!!

                    By the way, your absence at the airport to welcome dear leader back was duly noted, best keep your head up your ass and hide for a while…

              • Lanthanide …
                21 July 2014 at 9:23 am

                Are questions that are purely to do with the internal organisation and running of a political party allowed in Question Time? I thought Question Time was about parliamentary business.

                (NB: Brendan Horan alleged misuse of parliamentary resources by NZFirst)

                • Gosman …
                  21 July 2014 at 9:27 am

                  Funding of political parties are fair game i would have thought. Certainly Winston Peters found this out over the Owen Glenn situation back in 2008.

                  • Lanthanide …
                    21 July 2014 at 2:08 pm

                    How is National Party giving $300k donations to its own MPs anything to do with “funding of political parties”?

                    Sure, where did they get so much money to splash around like that, but the actual fact (or belief) that they are spending it in that manner, is a matter for the party, not the public (as much as I would like that to become public…).

                • freedom …
                  21 July 2014 at 9:31 am

                  The Speaker will no doubt use ‘no ministerial responsibility’ to stop any questions

        • TightyRighty 1.1.2.2
          21 July 2014 at 9:55 am

          persistent allegation? its only come up on left wing blog sites, from commentators dubious at best. i would be very surprised if this was going on and media commentators didn’t know about it.

          • fender 1.1.2.2.1
            21 July 2014 at 10:10 am

            I would be very surprised if this was going on and media commentators didn’t know about it, and were prepared to risk their future career by upsetting dear leader.

            FIFY

            • TightyRighty 1.1.2.2.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 3:49 pm

              Err, no you didn’t. fixing would be taking someone with journalistic credibility and showing me where they “didn’t investigate because john key told them not too”

              If this was actually true, like seriously and actually more than just bullshit presented by left wing bloggers, then at least Bomber, maybe gordon campbell, more likely nicky f$%#ing hagar would be all over it.

        • left for dead 1.1.2.3
          21 July 2014 at 10:13 am

          Iprent,when donKey first become PM,it was reported that he donated his salary to charity.Is that still the case,an what charity.

          • fender 1.1.2.3.1
            21 July 2014 at 10:19 am

            Since then he has described the National Party as a charity, so I’ll let you come to your own conclusion over that one..

            • Hami Shearlie 1.1.2.3.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 10:43 am

              It was claimed he gave a “portion” of his salary to charity – well a portion could be .5 of a percent couldn’t it?

              • fender …
                21 July 2014 at 10:49 am

                Yeah, then again it’s pretty hard to tell what he’s saying at the best of times, he may have meant it goes into the Porsche in’ golf cart kitty…

      • Tom Jackson 1.1.3
        21 July 2014 at 8:00 am

        I take it you missed the subtitle which implies that “David Cunliffe spent his vacation meeting a sex offender”, despite the fact that only a few people in the press are aware of this person’s crimes due to name suppression.

        There’s also the headline “Cunliffe upset” to make him look as if he was having a little cry about it. Why not the more accurate “Cunliffe angry” or “Cunliffe rebuts”.

        They aren’t even trying to hide it now, and they will keep going until someone gives them a reason to stop.

        • mickysavage 1.1.3.1
          21 July 2014 at 8:13 am

          This is really obscene. She is running a Cameron Slater smear line. Slater is spinning it for all he can. Cunliffe is of course not able to respond and the Herald itself is getting close to breaching the suppression order.

          Quite obscene really. Yet another example of right wing black ops.

          • freedom 1.1.3.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 8:40 am

            considering who has the name suppression,
            you would think they would not be rolling the maul his way

            • mickysavage 1.1.3.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 8:46 am

              Their tactic seems to be that if they smear the mud around then both sides get tarnished.

              • freedom …
                21 July 2014 at 9:36 am

                There is a website which has the information and it is available to view in NZ right now, what are the legal restrictions of linking to it? or referring to it by name?

                • mickysavage …
                  21 July 2014 at 9:55 am

                  We can’t speculate on the identity although Google normally provides an answer very quickly. What is appalling is the smear that is going on Cunliffe. Slater started it and the Herald have picked up on it. Absolutely obscene. Are we going to have to spend all campaign time on rebutting smears?

                  • Tom Jackson …
                    21 July 2014 at 10:08 am

                    Apparently so.

                    Easy to find out who it was.

                    That’s an eye opener.

                    • tinfoilhat …
                      21 July 2014 at 2:11 pm

                      Not sure why you are surprised by who it is. If there is one sport in which there is a persistent ‘rape culture’ amongst a proportion of it’s players and supporters I’d have thought rugby would be it.

                    • Tom Jackson …
                      21 July 2014 at 3:34 pm

                      If asked to pick, I would have picked many before him.

                • nadis …
                  21 July 2014 at 9:59 am

                  The ability of foreign websites to effectively publish into NZ raises all kinds of curly questions about what is publishing and where that takes place, but effectively they are outside thee reach of NZ law. But everyone in the southern lakes area knows exactly who this is, and you’ll certainly never see him on TV again. You wonder why fight suppression so hard when all it does is have the effect of having everyone focus on finding out who he is. 30 seconds on google is all that is needed.

                  Re the Cunliffe meeting – it is a beat up as you would expect in a political campaign. The real question is the judgement and political nous of Cunliffe and his advisors. For them not to know of this guys background is remarkable. This is like the photo of Brash walking the plank – not a big deal in itself but just unnecessary and adds to the distractions.

                  • benghazi …
                    21 July 2014 at 10:47 am

                    Audrey Young has written an irresponsible and unethical article today and she should be ASHAMED. She knows very well that this kind of display in this sensitive pre-election period is potentially very damaging.

                    A journalist of Audrey’s mature years should be one of the media playing a critical and positive role in a well-functioning democracy.

                    Instead she references an offender with ongoing name suppression. Cunliffe had no idea of this person’s history and nor should he. He did check with astute local politicians in Queenstown – but they also had no idea of this person’s history – that’s the effect name suppression has.

                    But what Audrey has failed to disclose is the strong links the offender has had to the National Party. As the daughter of a National Cabinet Minister she’d be better just to frankly disclose her conflict of interest than to pretend she is a professional journalist capable of writing in an unbiased way.

                    Today I cancelled my Herald and Sunday Star Times subscriptions. The Guardian Weekly will be it for me from here on as I’ve tired of the NZ trash.

                    • Ad …
                      21 July 2014 at 11:23 am

                      Try BBC’s “A History of the World in 100 Objects” podcasts.

                      Great for getting to sleep.

                      Otherwise I get up at 5am for 10k’s run just to deal with the stress of this election.

                    • Kiwiri …
                      21 July 2014 at 11:38 am

                      “Today I cancelled my Herald and Sunday Star Times subscriptions.”

                      Send an email to tell them what you think and also write to their ‘letters to the editor’ column also? Might as well leave with a loud bang.

                  • Gosman …
                    21 July 2014 at 11:00 am

                    Agreed. Meeting with this person is in no way indicative of support. It is the image and perception which is the problem especially given Cunliffe’s comments about sexual offending to Woman’s refuge.

                    • mickysavage …
                      21 July 2014 at 1:42 pm

                      For feck’s sake Gosman. Cunliffe said he was not aware. He is good but he is not omnipotent. It is a shame you do not apply the same expectations to Key. If you did you would be voting Labour without hesitation.

                      And Slater is the last one who should be writing about this stuff.

                    • tinfoilhat …
                      21 July 2014 at 2:12 pm

                      Has Slater got some sexual assault history in his backstory ?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      21 July 2014 at 5:30 pm

                      Key meets with Economic Hitmen all the time, and the NZ Herald never pulls him up on it.

            • Hami Shearlie 1.1.3.1.1.2
              21 July 2014 at 5:23 pm

              Exactly, it’s not the Labour Leader who should be embarrassed about that offender!

          • anker 1.1.3.1.2
            21 July 2014 at 1:04 pm

            Ms @1.1.3.1 Its got Crosby Textor written all over it. And by the way for the comment below about Audrey’s father, her brother is the current National MP for New Plymouth.

            What I would like to know is “Audrey, your point in bringing this up is????? How is this relevant to what Labour will do for NZders? There is a name suppression order against this. Is Cunliffe suppose to be a mind reader”.

            • swordfish 1.1.3.1.2.1
              21 July 2014 at 2:33 pm

              Her brother is the current National MP for New Plymouth

              Don’t think so. He’s the son of former Taranaki National MP, Venn Young.

              She’s the daughter of former Miramar National MP, Bill Young.

        • Chuck Bird 1.1.3.2
          21 July 2014 at 2:51 pm

          Tom, It would be interesting to know the results of a poll among MPs on who knew this sexual predator’s name. I would be 99.9%. How do you know what the media knows or does not know? I and many others found out by various means including search engines and overseas websites. If Cunliffe did not know which is possible as he was sick and on holiday he was set up.

      • Bearded Git 1.1.4
        21 July 2014 at 9:04 am

        Gosman, the TV3 poll was not too bad all things considered. (Ignore Gower’s ravings).

        Nats 49.4

        Lab/Gr/IMP/NZF 45.7

        Given that the Cons vote, 2.7%, is now likely to be wasted a 3% shift to the Left/NZF from the Nats would be enough to give that grouping power.

        A 7% shift to Lab/Gr/IMP would give the Left power. I know this sounds a lot but these polls were taken during the ridiculous MSM’s attack on Cunliffe’s brave “man” speech and even Gower is starting to say that IMP is going “up and up” and they have only just started.

        This election will go to the wire. I liked Cunliffe’s positive “we will come out fighting” on TV3 News tonight.

        • Gosman 1.1.4.1
          21 July 2014 at 9:31 am

          If you think that was a positive poll for Labour compared to others good luck to you.

          • Ennui 1.1.4.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 9:59 am

            Gos, as I told you the other day Labours vote does not really matter. This is MMP, its the total vote of the Left or Right that matters. And you fekkers are in deep proverbial.

            • Clemgeopin 1.1.4.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 11:23 am

              That is only partially and technically correct. The coalition needs to be led by a well supported party. Labour’s vote should go to at least about 33%. My party vote will definitely be for Labour.

              • McFlock …
                21 July 2014 at 1:11 pm

                I’m not really sure that there needs to be a “first among equals” sort of party in a coalition.

                No reason for a 20:20:11 coalition to be any better than a 30:11:10 coalition, as far as I can see.

                • Clemgeopin …
                  21 July 2014 at 2:13 pm

                  Labour is a party with vast experience/history that works for a very BROAD section of the population, has well thought out costed and responsible economic.social and environmental workable non extreme policies rather than narrow (though may be important) agendas. I think it will be a mistake in the long term for all the progressives parties if Labour is weak and the minor parties, the Greens and the Internet-Mana are equal or more prominent in the coalition. In my opinion, it is imperative that Labour must have the most votes of about at least 33% in the coalition of the partnership parties.

                  • McFlock …
                    21 July 2014 at 4:40 pm

                    While I agree that having a broad left party is important (and for the sake of conversation grant the assumption that Labour currently fits that bill – cue a self-loathing labourite to enter the thread 🙂 ), that doesn’t mean that broad left policies wouldn’t be followed by a coalition with a less-dominant labour party.

                    Broad policies are the common ground of the left, so even if Labour didn’t exist mana and the greens, for example, would have common policy areas around minimum wage and so on. Having a broad left party ensures that this common ground is remembered and helps prevent things like cabotage falling through the policy-development cracks.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    21 July 2014 at 5:38 pm

                    Labour is a party with vast experience/history that works for a very BROAD section of the population

                    A significant majority of people don’t appear to see it that way. So who is deluded?

                  • Ergo Robertina …
                    21 July 2014 at 6:16 pm

                    Clemgeopin, consider Lab5, the winter of discontent scare campaign, and the subsequent timidity of Labour. A left Government comprising a Green Party in the 20%+ territory, Mana on 10%+ etc will be much less likely to buckle when faced with such tactics.
                    It’s not so much a lack of policy agenda on the left; the ability to withstand the juggernaut from the right after the election counts as well.

          • kenny 1.1.4.1.2
            21 July 2014 at 12:12 pm

            National plunge from 53% to 49.4%!!!!

            John Key should resign! He should resign do you hear!?

            Do you hear that John Armstrong? Are you listening?

          • swordfish 1.1.4.1.3
            21 July 2014 at 1:32 pm

            If you think that was a positive poll for Labour compared to others good luck to you

            The latest 3 News Reid Research Poll was good for Labour in the context of the last 4 polls (ie those of July), and a fairly average poll for Labour in the context of the last 6 weeks.

            More importantly, it was above average for both the Left Bloc and the broader Opposition Bloc (Left + NZ First) in the context of both the July Polls and the Polls of the last 6 weeks.

        • Chuck Bird 1.1.4.2
          21 July 2014 at 2:53 pm

          FYI, the last poll the Conservatives were on 1.2%

      • framu 1.1.5
        21 July 2014 at 12:19 pm

        ” Certainly there is disquiet amongst Labour MP’s and not amongst National. That is a story in itself.”

        yeah – thats nonsense –

        there is zero evidence that this is coming from a labour MP as opposed to slater, and i do hope your going to try and claim there arent factions in national

    • vto 1.2
      21 July 2014 at 8:15 am

      The Herald is owned by big business corporates who support the National Party, wtf do you expect?

      • bad12 1.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 8:57 am

        Your comment needs some adding to it, anger can be power, there is no point banging on endlessly about the ugly media’s attacks on Labour,

        Anger can be power, use the anger at the media as fuel to campaign harder, when the enemy, in this case most of the high profile media ‘personalities’ in the country see that their attacks hurt they will naturally keep on doing just that,

        Laugh at them…

      • North 1.2.2
        21 July 2014 at 9:31 am

        Three days in Queenstown brings on this anti-Cunliffe fury ? For fuck sake ! While that poncey piece of shit for a man TheGodKey minces round Hawaii for ten days auditioning for the fucking E! Channel.

        On top of the ‘seminal’ matter of an eleven year old standard form letter – not different in essence from probably 10,000 letters since written by MPs duty-bound to write them – what the fuck is this nation coming to ?

        I’m stopping for petrol at 6.20 this morning – some RNZ wet behind the ears puppy journalist, for all money reading from a script like she didn’t even understand what she was reading – “Mr Cunliffe, do you really want to be prime minister ?” For fuck sake ! A weekend and a day ???

        I nearly cleaned up the local Caltex I’ll tell you. On account of a sudden visitation by a staccato “WinstonMediaSlap” –

        “WhatpuerileinterrogatorymediamakesahabitofitI’msickofitfranklyandsoisthepublicSLAP!”

        Three possibilities – (1) the faceless very powerful see Cunliffe PM as REALLY threatening, (2) TheGodKey’s power-celebrity lust is REALLY pathological, (3) we as a nation REALLY are but E! Channel.

        If it’s (1) the question is “What rorts are they hiding ?”, if it’s (2) the faceless in (1) own the bitch, and if it’s (3) read ‘psycho-pathological’ in (2). And agree that we’re fucked I guess !

        Bugger ! I was raised to believe we had a good country……

    • deep throat 1.3
      21 July 2014 at 9:45 am

      I saw susan wood last night getting herself in a snit over some un named MP who supposedly rang her up and told her that they were angry because DC was having a break.
      It all comes back to her.
      why didnt she check up with someone else.
      name the person wooods!
      Is she a reporter or just a tattler for the tories.
      This style of conducting poltiics is getting creepier and creepier.
      persons like woods seem to be in control of the discourse but not of it.

    • David H 1.4
      21 July 2014 at 10:03 am

      And i notice that IMP and NZF both had their meetings this weekend and NO negative press so it’s just a targeted and concerted attack on Labour and even more importantly Cunliffe him self so who’s scared of who??

    • Ennui 1.5
      21 July 2014 at 10:41 am

      Check out the Dominions editorial this morning (aka blame Putin for everything)…with a balanced viewpoint
      http://www.theautomaticearth.com/the-day-god-looked-away/

      Now tell me if the MSM are worth listening to.

  2. Jenny 2
    21 July 2014 at 7:02 am

    I had a dream

    Not, “I have a dream” (not that I don’t)

    But I had a dream.

    I woke up this morning at 3am with a start. I had had vivid dream that Laila Harre had just been made Prime Minister.

    In my Dream Laila Harre passed through Papakura in a train. Hundreds of people were gathered on the platform to greet Prime Minister Harre. As the train slowly pulled out of the station people ran beside the moving train. I was one of them. I ran beside the train window where Laila Harre was standing. I caught her eye, there were tears in her eyes. But steel in her heart.

    Laila Harre is the future that New Zealand never had.

    Vote Internet Mana.

    • Jenny 2.1
      21 July 2014 at 7:04 am

      So what sparked such a vivid dream.

      Yesterday while Lynn Prentice was attending the New Zealand First conference I attended the Mana Road show at the Kelston community hall.

      If you get a chance, attend the Mana Roadshow when it comes to your town. If it was anything like what I saw, believe me it is something you don’t want to miss and will remember forever.

      It was the old style barnstorming of the 1930s reborn, the hall was packed there was standing room only. The speeches were unmassaged, unvarnished, raw. None of the speakers had had a makeover Dotcom was still as large as ever, in tracksuit and trainers, speaking a thick German accent. Harawira was still the unrepentant Maori Nationalist.

      But somehow the mix had become distilled into something greater than its parts.

      Dotcom spoke of how as a teenager he had hacked NASA to find out if there really were aliens. And had hacked the bundesbank to five the German Prime Minister of the time, who he didn’t like, a zero credit rating. For these crimes he was convicted. It is these convictions that the government here is holding against him. But in Germany at his sentencing the judge said you have a gift, you should make something of this gift, perhaps you could tell these companies you hacked how to protect themselves. After the court case he wrote up a business plan and presented it to the authorities, imagine his surprise when the German government despite his convictions gave him a $million dollar zero interest loan for twenty years. This government loan was the basis of his current success. This $million dollars allowed him to hire staff and start his business and within two years even though he didn’t have to, he paid the loan back. Dotcom said, this is what we should be doing in New Zealand. We should be encouraging start ups, and innovators and this is what internet Mana proposes. A large part of the meeting was about the new smart and sustainable technology. Dotcom spoke of the Internet Mana committment to full free education. What is the point he said of lumbering our best and brightest with massive debts which they have to go overseas to pay off, where they start companies and make friends and contacts and maybe meet the love of their life and never return to help make this country grow into what it could be. Laila Harre’s speech was also devoted to education and the sustainable smart technology and the need to get away from fossil fuel use. She spoke of climate change three times. Unlike David Cunliffe the leader of the Labour Party who never mentioned it once in his inaugural election speech.

      But the thing was, Laila Harre wasn’t the best speaker, nor was it Kim Dotcom, nor was it Hone Harawira or Annette Sykes. Not that their speeches were bad, they were great. But the best speech of the night was from John Minto. Talk about speaking truth to power, this man has been doing it all his life. When you hear John Minto speak you know everything he says has been researched, is accurate, is thoughtful and considered and because of that compelling. If you have never heard John Minto speak, be prepared to be inspired. Be prepared to be moved, be prepared to be shaken.

      Be prepared to vote.

      Both Minto and Harre need to be in parliament.

      If you consider yourself Left and you don’t vote Internet Mana on the list then you will miss the chance to see Annette Sykes, John Minto and Laila Harre in Parliament and the future of this country will be very dark indeed.

      • bad12 2.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 7:39 am

        Well written Jenny,(except for the swipes in your usual directions), did you get to hear of future dates for the InternetMana roadshow when it gets to travel the rest of the motu,

        DotCom need not waste his data searching for evidence of aliens these days, apparently said aliens were gathered in an unnamed hotel this weekend for a discussion on world domination…

      • kenny 2.1.2
        21 July 2014 at 7:56 am

        Wish I’d been there! Is it available to view online?

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1
          21 July 2014 at 8:48 am

          Given the premise of the Internet Party they better have it up online!!!

          • David H 2.1.2.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 11:55 am

            Nope not on their Website or their You tube site either, most disappointing, if you can’t get to these events..

        • freedom 2.1.2.2
          21 July 2014 at 9:16 am

          There is a short break for the Internet Party’s national music tour – the Party Party from July 23-26 . Internet MANA then hits the road again in the Waikato, Taranaki, Manawatu-Whanganui and Wellington.
          https://www.facebook.com/InternetPartyNZ/events

          THE PARTY PARTY! [NORTH ISLAND]
          Wednesday, July 23 The Studio, Auckland + James Cabaret, Wellington 19:30

          THE PARTY PARTY! [SOUTH ISLAND]
          Thursday, July 24 The Foundary, Christchurch – 10 Bar, Dunedin 19:00

          ROAD TRIP RESUMES
          Tuesday, July 29 Rotorua Distinction Hotel, 390 Fenton Street 6pm

          Wednesday, July 30 Hamilton Waikato University, PriceWaterhouseCoopers Lecture Theatre 6pm

          Thursday, July 31 New Plymouth New Plymouth Boys’ High School 6pm

          Saturday, August 2 Whanganui War Memorial Conference Centre 2pm

          Sunday, August 3 Ratana Church Service, Waipounamu St 11am

          Palmerston North Convention Centre 2pm

          Monday August 4 Wellington Mac’s Function Centre 6pm

          https://internet.org.nz/news/64

          • Kiwiri 2.1.2.2.1
            21 July 2014 at 11:03 am

            I found some links to where people can buy tickets online.
            Disclaimer: I do not get any commission nor am I a member of IMP! But I will be at their event this week.

            Auckland – July 23, The Studio http://tinyurl.com/lsdn4g9
            Christchurch – July 24, The Foundry http://www.dashtickets.co.nz/?/event/pwgzmvhkj
            Wellington – July 25, James Cabaret http://tinyurl.com/ptcy7jl
            Dunedin – July 26, Sammy’s http://www.dashtickets.co.nz/?/event/m9yk8qz74

            R18: $20+bf Students, $30+bf Public

            (What is “bf”?)

            • Kiwiri 2.1.2.2.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 12:26 pm

              Btw, if someone connected with the IMP organisers is reading this, can that Facebook link for the South Island be fixed up?

              It looks like the Christchurch event has been conflated with the Dunedin event (re: “Thursday, July 24 The Foundary, Christchurch – 10 Bar, Dunedin 19:00”)

              And the online links for purchasing tickets, as I have noted, should be given wider publicity to attract greater numbers.

              • freedom …
                21 July 2014 at 12:40 pm

                I have no connection to IMP, other than being on a mailing list as I am with many things, but know there has been contact made about the front page dates being clarified.

              • Colonial Viper …
                21 July 2014 at 2:02 pm

                Looks like a ticket clipping $3 booking fee (“bf”)

              • Pasupial …
                21 July 2014 at 3:29 pm

                Over the weekend, the Dunedin venue was changed; from Sammy’s in the rundown warehouse part of town, to 10 Bar in the Octagon. Mainly to focus more on the student audience. This means that all the publicity (posters etc) has to be updated this week – the date is still the 26th, hopefully the Facebook page will be fixed soon.

                The old tickets are still valid even if they do say Sammy’s. But it does mean that some poor volunteer will have to miss the gig and stand outside Sammy’s redirecting those who haven’t got the update – hope it’s not snowing for them!

      • phillip ure 2.1.3
        21 July 2014 at 7:57 am

        that is a good review jenny..

        ..i was there..and you have captured it well..

        ..the room was electric..

        ..internet/mana is like a just-woken tiger…

        ..getting ready to roar…

        • Jenny 2.1.3.1
          21 July 2014 at 1:27 pm

          Thank you Phillip. There is a lot more I could have said. Like for instance, Te Hamua Nikora the Mana Party candidate for Ikaroa Rawhiti who acted as MC.

          Te Hamua described the Mana Party as a rugby team that ran onto the field to face the All Blacks and standing in bare feet. Te Hamua introduced Kim Dotcom as the man who supplied us with boots.

          Kim Dotcom’s first comments were thanking New Zealanders for coming to his aid in his time of need. He mentioned the many thousands messages of support, he mentioned the person who lent him a car when he needed one, (his whole collection had been confiscated), he mentioned the people who gave him money and bought food to his house when he didn’t have a cent to buy groceries because all his funds had been completely frozen. He said that if it hadn’t been for this outflowing of support when he most needed it he would have given up.

          Dotcom said that the founding of the Internet Party had nothing to do with his extradition. He said he founded the Internet Party in gratitude as his gift to New Zealand.

          • The Al1en 2.1.3.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 1:30 pm

            “Dotcom said that the founding of the Internet Party had nothing to do with his extradition. He said he founded the Internet Party in gratitude as his gift to New Zealand.”

            That’s the biggest lol of this 1% lonies taking over the asylum day on the standard.
            Thanks for that.

          • phillip ure 2.1.3.1.2
            21 July 2014 at 1:54 pm

            hoots was sounding kinda desperate on rnz..

            ..first he was saying dotcom has got nothing..

            ..then he had an elongated whine about glenn greenwald coming to that town hall key-dump/roast…

            ..all about ‘foreign journalists’ coming here ‘to influence our election’..

            ..and hoots deserves a special award for the most use of the word ‘foreigner’ in a single sentence..

            ..(surpassing even peters at his most xenophobic/bellicose..)

            ..and i’m sure that in the studio..he was waving his arms around in an alarming manner..each time he said ‘foreigner’…

            ..his upper lip curled back up over his teeth..as he does when he gets particularly fraught…

            ..and likely flecks of foam involved..

            ..somewhere in the process..

            ..it was all quite a hoot…

            • Jenny 2.1.3.1.2.1
              21 July 2014 at 3:46 pm

              What Mathew Hooton neglects to mention in his rants against foreigners, is that New Zealand is not a state of US, but a sovereign country. One thing you will never from Mathew Hooton is a rant against those New Zealanders who willingly and illegally intercepted our communications and passed them on to this ‘foreign power’. Or complain about our Prime Minister who all but resides in a US controlled territory, who changed the law to make this illegal mass spying on us and the handing of our megadata over to the US legal.

      • Barry 2.1.4
        21 July 2014 at 9:55 am

        This review sounds very similar to a review I read recently about someone who went to listen to Hitler in 1936.

        I have no doubt that Internet/Mana is something new and will turn out to be bigger than many think – but when people like Jenny carry on like a many fell for Hitler I start to worry.

        • yeshe 2.1.4.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:28 am

          barry, take your sodding racism elsewhere then you won’t have to worry about it here.

        • bad12 2.1.4.2
          21 July 2014 at 10:55 am

          Decide for me Barry, i just cant quite place your comment in an appropriate category, (a) being a bit of a Godwin there do you not think, and (b), just a piece of abject stupidity considering that no-one will be voting for DotCom,

          Hint: its the policies and the front runners on the InternetMana Party List that we will be voting for…

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.4.3
          21 July 2014 at 11:15 am

          This review sounds very similar to a review I read recently about someone who went to listen to Hitler in 1936.

          You do realise that armed black shirts went knocking down the door to Dotcom’s home, not the other way around?

        • David H 2.1.4.4
          21 July 2014 at 12:00 pm

          What’s with the Godwin shite there Barry? Or are you just one of these Glass half empty sort of people.

        • blue leopard 2.1.4.5
          21 July 2014 at 1:16 pm

          @ Barry,

          I think Key’s popularity is far more a parallel of the review that you read.

      • Clemgeopin 2.1.5
        21 July 2014 at 10:05 am

        Jenny, that is an excellent and inspiring post!

        Good on you.

      • ianmac 2.1.6
        21 July 2014 at 10:34 am

        Goodness gracious me! Even John Armstrong sounds excited!
        If any spies from the Labour, Green or Maori parties infiltrated yesterday’s Internet Mana rally in West Auckland, they would have come away with very worried looks on their faces.

        The Maori Party, in particular, should be afraid, very afraid. The main hall of the Kelston Community Centre was packed to the gunnels. There was not so much a buzz of excitement as a raging ferment of noise as the audience waited patiently for proceedings to begin.

        Say what you like about Kim Dotcom. Say what you like about Laila Harre’s initially hard-to-understand decision to team up with the internet tycoon – all that paled into utter insignificance yesterday. There was instead a hint of history being made. The chance to fund and build a new movement of the left is not an opportunity to be squandered. The likes of Kim Dotcom do not come along very often. Neither is such a collective of credible activists always on hand to run such an outfit as is the case with Internet Mana.

        • Tiger Mountain 2.1.6.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:51 am

          John Armstrong will be on gardening leave if he keeps that up. It was definitely that kind of atmosphere, not something dreamed up by the usual suspects including me, here.

          As the Roadshow heads South it leaves Hone country so it will be interesting to see if the full halls so far continue, I suspect the Rotorua event will be a good one too.
          —Tuesday, July 29, Rotorua, Distinction Hotel, 390 Fenton Street, 6pm—

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.6.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 2:14 pm

            Spot on…Rotorua, Hamilton, New Plymouth…if he pulls big crowds IMP could be on to something on Sept 20.

        • bad12 2.1.6.2
          21 July 2014 at 11:43 am

          Isn’t that a strange piece of actual journalism from that old so and so Armstrong, not so much a factual portrayal of what the main players at the event had to say but a well thought through opinion piece on the mood of those who turned up in Auckland,

          (i wish such journalists would deign to do some of the real work that should be their bread and butter, like querying attendees as to IF they voted in 2011 for instance so we can gauge where the obviously growing support is likely to be coming from),

          ianmac’s comment above pretty much encapsulates the whole of Armstrong’s Herald piece on the InternetMana Parties Auckland leg of the roadshow, but, who would have thunk it, you wont find the article on the main page of the Herald’s online version,

          You have to ‘click on’ Opinion at the top of the page where presumably the poor panicked a/hole that edits that particular piece of trash decided to bury it…

      • alwyn 2.1.7
        21 July 2014 at 11:50 am

        There must be two people with the name John Minto involved in New Zealand politics.
        You describe one with the words
        “everything he says has been researched, is accurate, is thoughtful and considered”

        Perhaps you could tell me who the other one is the produced this totally laughable contribution for The Daily Blog? This was prepared by someone who claims to be the finance spokesman for his party.

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/21/who-pays-tax-who-pays-the-most-tax-and-who-doesnt-pay-tax/

        Hint. If you think it has any relationship to being “accurate, thoughtful and considered” start by looking at the difference between average and marginal rates of tax. You can continue by trying to find anything at all that is sensible about the piece.

        • bad12 2.1.7.1
          21 July 2014 at 12:58 pm

          Alwyn, the fact that the ‘wing-nuts’ disagree with John Minto simply has me doubly sure that my vote cast for InternetMana will have all the better impact,

          The stuff of your nightmares right, if John Armstrong is putting out the big hint of a 5% InternetMana vote at election 2014 just how big will it get…

          • alwyn 2.1.7.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 1:45 pm

            Did you read the article I linked to?
            If so do you really think it is valid to calculate the “total tax paid” in the way he does?
            Do you really not see anything wrong with it, and would you try and justify his calculations?
            If so I fear there is very little hope for you.
            You can vote for him if you want to. However to say that everything he says has “been researched, is accurate” etc is a joke.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.7.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 2:38 pm

              If so do you really think it is valid to calculate the “total tax paid” in the way he does?

              Nope, seems reasonable. It shows what percentage of income different groups of people are paying in tax.

              • alwyn …
                21 July 2014 at 5:15 pm

                You really don’t get it do you? Minto puts in a column that is the MARGINAL rate of tax, adds an estimate of GST to it and then claims that that would be the AVERAGE rate of tax.
                The average income is about $52,000/year. According to Minto you would pay income tax of about $16,500 from that (31.7%)
                If you look at the tax calculation in the IR3 booklet you don’t pay that at all. What you do pay on $52,000 taxable income is $8,620. That is only about half the amount.
                The silly fellow is quoting marginal rates and then treating them as average rates.
                I suppose the true believers, such as yourself accept, his numbers so why shouldn’t he just continue to spout his fantasies.

                This is fairly typical of his methods of course. You will note that in his article he makes no attempt to justify his claim that the very rich pay negligible tax. Why bother. His fans happily accept anything he says.

            • bad12 2.1.7.1.1.2
              21 July 2014 at 3:41 pm

              Alwyn, i will say this slooo–ooowly for you as you seem to be a little slow today, you know when on the ‘course’ you hear the yelled ‘four’, you are supposed to take cover, being struck repeatedly by objects moving at speed will leave you brain damaged,

              The argument you put up comes down to this, you do not agree with John Minto, therefor my counter argument is i do agree with John Minto, you propose nothing else than this,

              Bill Rosenberg the CTU economist did the actual research which pointed out the unfairness of the tax system, the circular argument has been going round and round ever since,

              While i understand what both Minto and Rosenberg are on about such arguments can never become a ‘settled truth’ as both left and right continue to talk past each other using differing data to base their conclusions upon,

              On a more visceral level i fully understand how the tax burden impacts on me to a far greater extent than those swinging from the income tree at a higher level than myself,

              Directly addressing income inequality starting at the level of the beneficiary will of course resolve the issues John Minto and Bill Rosenberg canvas,

              The imposition of the living wage for every adult currently not in receipt of such monies weekly, including beneficiaries, would be the ‘fix’ that i tend to see as the ideal…

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.8
        21 July 2014 at 2:33 pm

        The two pics I took there:

        First one: Taken just before it started. Still had many more people to come in.

        Second one: Taken when Laila Harre was speaking.

    • karol 2.2
      21 July 2014 at 7:54 am

      Annette Sykes as PM would be something.

      • phillip ure 2.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 8:00 am

        the speakers all impressed..in a major way..

        ..but both sykes and harre lifted the roof off…

      • bad12 2.2.2
        21 July 2014 at 8:18 am

        Annette’s sharp ae, Marama Davidson of the Green Party also has such a sharp mind, i will suggest that when ‘the roadshow’ hits Rotorua that will be the start of the waiata starting the tangi for the Maori Party,

        Polling 2.5% on my TV last night and from a Reid Research Poll at that, i am starting to sniff 5% for InternetMana and if i allow myself an ‘in my wildest dreams moment’ this could get Big…

        • yeshe 2.2.2.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:29 am

          with you on that Bad .. at least 5%. here be dragons.

          • Colonial Viper 2.2.2.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 10:39 am

            3% to 4% on the day which counts would be a magnificent achievement. 4-5 MPs. Anything beyond that is really a dream, but they also have a tonne of challenges to get through first, esp Sept 15.

    • veutoviper 2.3
      21 July 2014 at 10:10 am

      I am gobsmacked! Did John Armstrong REALLY write this about the Internet Mana Kelston meeting?

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11296565

      • Kiwiri 2.3.1
        21 July 2014 at 10:52 am

        The zombie ‘living dead’ author of that opinion piece is trying to make the best out of a worrying situation for National.

        He focuses exclusively about the Left in the piece but does not say that Nats are very concerned about the groundswell of support for IMP.

        IMP is now the party that is cool and the Prime Puppet of the Nat Party is no longer cool. He has long given up his show of ‘smile and wave’ that is now replaced by the routine of lie and feck off to Hawaii.

        At my workplace, the Nat parents are saying their kids who will be voting are supporting IMP. Good on them. Let’s wish them a good time at IMP’s “Party Party – The Global Movement”:

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1407/S00112/party-party-the-launch-of-a-global-movement-500-words.htm

        • karol 2.3.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 11:06 am

          If the party party engages more young people politically, and gets them voting, then that’s a very good thing.

          Armstrong opens his article by focusing on putting an IMP wedge into the left. You are right, Kiwiri, that JA is transferring his fears of IMP taking the momentum from right wing parties. Must be giving him a few sleepless hours.

          • Kiwiri 2.3.1.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 12:20 pm

            Cheers.

            And was there a hint or whiff of anti-Maori slant from the zombied writer? He is a disgrace.

    • aerobubble 2.4
      21 July 2014 at 4:03 pm

      You do know that the list and electorate votes never match up. And that Maori seats have a lot less voters and so exaggerate the effect. Basically Harra gets in if the Mana gets One MP and a large Mana list vote, but if Mana takes all the Maori seats the Harra needs a much greater list vote than she would have needed if those were the same number of general seats. i.e. the harder she worked, the more traction she gets is hurt by the more Moari electorate seats Mana wins!!!
      Yet its worse!
      KimDotCom is a rich white european, working general seater voters are not his natural supporters especially since he gave Banks donations!!! Banks being an ACT party leader!
      Now your Maori voter has no such fear since the more Mana seats in the Maori electorate the more likely even Harra wont get into parliament, and so no Dotcom.

      Party Vote Green, Vote Mana in the Maori seats, Labour in the general seats. And Key LOSES.

  3. SPC 3
    21 July 2014 at 7:07 am

    Cunliffe should ask his MP’s to sign a statement to the effect that they did not speak to the Dom Post journalist and then present it to the Dom Post.

    And ask that the journalist confirm or deny to the editor and public that it was or was not an MP who spoke to them.

    If all the MP’s sign and the Dom Post offer no response take them to the Press Council.

    • SPC 3.1
      21 July 2014 at 7:17 am

      While published in the Sunday Star Times, it was also on the Stuff and Dom Post sites.

    • ianmac 3.2
      21 July 2014 at 9:53 am

      Notice that Key referred to a “Senior Labour MP.” Wonder where he got that from?
      In any case it seems so unlikely that an MP would cut his own lifeline in a confidential chat to a journalist. I still think the source was someone like Cameron Slater.

      • McFlock 3.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 1:29 pm

        he got it out of his arse, like his economic policies.

        • greywarbler 3.2.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 2:45 pm

          Could be Cameron Slater – Senior ‘Labour; Malignant Pathologist – as in specialising in spreading infectious rumours about Labour.

    • Clemgeopin 3.3
      21 July 2014 at 10:18 am

      Good idea. You should email Mr Cunliffe and the Labour president your suggestion.

      If they find the alleged MP, he/she should be sacked asap irrespective of the consequences..

  4. Tiger Mountain 4
    21 July 2014 at 7:48 am

    In a different world Internet Mana would be duking it out with the Greens as the lead opposition party in this election because it is unequivocally left and embracing the new. Hard lefties have sniffed at the “libertarian” edge to the Internet Party but the mostly working class Westie audience had loud applause for free tertiary and universal internet access policies and online policy creation by members. Plus No to TPPA, Royal Commission on all the spooks, independent foreign policy, moratorium on extractive activities, tax free first $27,000 and so on.

    The IMP Roadshow Kelston edition was exceptional for a political meeting from the set up with King Kapisi. Professionally staged but a live feel. The leaders and lead candidates complemented each other well, the body language said these people like each other and are having fun, sounds unbelievable doesn’t it in these sometimes turgid columns.

    Te Hamua Nikora MC’ed in a stand up style aimed at including everyone while managing not to be condescending. As Laila reminded, the hall had seen the launch and conclusion of many successful political campaigns before during Alliance days including bringing a full hospital to Waitakere and fighting the sale of Ports of Auckland.

    Best speaker for me was Annette Sykes, punchy style with a lawyers grasp of detail. Minto is widely liked too by the very people Key and torys spit on. IMP is a small player but will likely deservedly help decide the election result. Get to a Roadshow event if you can.

    • karol 4.1
      21 July 2014 at 7:58 am

      free tertiary and universal internet access policies and online policy creation by members. Plus No to TPPA, Royal Commission on all the spooks, independent foreign policy, moratorium on extractive activities, tax free first $27,000 and so on.

      Pretty much all Green Party policies – may be slight differences in the finer details, but the GP have worked long on making the policies workable.

      • phillip ure 4.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 8:05 am

        won’t it be great if the greens do really well..and internet/mana do really well..

        ..then together..

        ..they can persuade labour to return to its’ roots/original reasons for being..?

        ..and enact those left/green/progressive policies they hold in common..?

        ..doesn’t that have hints of a masterplan..of sorts..?

        ..and really..nobody has copyright on those/any ‘left/green/progressive’ policy ideas..

        ..just look at peters..with his ‘cool’ no gst on food policy..

        ..what’s not to love about that one..?

        ..a good idea is a good idea..

        ..something to be shared..and thus achieved..

        ..not something to be churlishly clung-to..

        ..thus ensuring less chance of that achieving..?

      • phillip ure 4.1.2
        21 July 2014 at 8:20 am

        @ karol..

        ..do you recall just when the greens introduced ‘ online policy creation by members.’..?

        ..my memories are the greens being like most other political parties in this way..

        ..policy-creation being a few people pulling the policy together..(under direction of leadership..)..

        ..with the final policy being signed-off/approved by head-office..

        ..and then being presented to the party membership as a fait accomplit..

        ..when did this change..?

        ..and that is something the internet party is to be applauded for..

        ..for their policy being formulated in an open forum..

        ..in a total reversal of that usual top-down method..

        ..i am expecting members of other political parties to also demand this right/change..

        ..a change that can only enhance the democratic process..

      • Clemgeopin 4.1.3
        21 July 2014 at 10:38 am

        “]1] free tertiary and universal internet access policies and online policy creation by members. [2] Plus No to TPPA, [3] Royal Commission on all the spooks, [4] Independent foreign policy, [5] moratorium on extractive activities, [6] tax free first $27,000 and so on.”

        [1] Great policy. If financially doable is an important question.
        [2] That is jumping the gun blindly before we even know the details.
        [3] Agree.
        [4] With fair, just and friendly non aligned relations with all nations, guided by the UN principles.
        [5] Dumb policy.
        [6] (a) Reduces government income drastically affecting services (b) If not targeted to the
        poor and low income families, will be a gift to everyone, including the wealthy.

        • karol 4.1.3.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:50 am

          [2] The TPPA has been irredeemably hi-jacked by US corporate imperialism. There needs to be another way that maintains NZ’s independence.

          [5] It’s not dumb at all. It will put a break on overseas companies that the Nats have been empower into extracting NZ resources. It will create time for a clear and in depth look at the way forward.

          [6] Both the Greens and Mana have other policies to offset the lost tax revenue. eg Greens favour Capital Gains and Tobin taxes, plus , for other reasons, and ecological tax. A tax free threshold is a smart and simple policy. Aussie has a tax free threshold and it works for them (albeit for a lower amount).

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.3.2
          21 July 2014 at 2:57 pm

          2). I’d say that having the government signing it without any input from the people of NZ is jumping the gun. In fact, it’s totally undemocractic.

          4.) Agreed. Total neutrality is NZ’s best option

          5.) Disagree. We need to keep that wealth for the following generations.

          6.) (a) Only if it’s not offset by other taxes. (b) They’ve specifically said that they will be taxing the rich more and introducing a financial transaction tax.

      • alwyn 4.1.4
        21 July 2014 at 11:54 am

        Tax free first $27,000?
        Gosh, it looks as if Laila is stealing policies from the Conservative Party doesn’t it?

        • McFlock 4.1.4.1
          21 July 2014 at 1:39 pm

          Even people who want to beat children might have a good idea once in their lives.

    • bad12 4.2
      21 July 2014 at 8:09 am

      Also as above Tiger, well written, same question, any intimation of future dates when the roadshow, after the announced break, continues down the motu…

      • Tiger Mountain 4.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 8:30 am

        Internet Mana Roadshow dates and venues are on this page bad and others;
        https://internet.org.nz/news/64
        Will check some of the vids available from Kelston and post links later if suitable.

        • bad12 4.2.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 8:48 am

          Cheers Tiger, befor i click on the link, every other time i have tried to get to the Internet Party website my computer hits a blank wall,(if you have the time publishing the dates would be a big help),

          Just heard, again on my wireless, a fair and balanced report, sorry forgot the name of the reporter from the weekends event,

          The audience was described as diverse, a plus in my eyes showing a wide cross section of support,(would have been nice if the reporter had of identified if those spoken to were ‘fence sitters’ in 2011),

          They played audio of part of DotCom’s speech, hopefully He is included in the rest of the roadshow as He brings the human face to His supposed crimes which has the audience obviously warming to Him,

          InternetMana putting a definite buzz into election 2014, they have my Party Vote…

          Edit: yeah Tiger it is like i said above, i just get a blank white page with four purple squares…

          • Tiger Mountain 4.2.1.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 9:12 am

            Was reluctant to post list if poss as takes up space here but people are interested so…

            Internet Mana Roadshow events
            Tuesday, July 29
            Rotorua
            Distinction Hotel, 390 Fenton Street
            6pm

            Wednesday, July 30
            Hamilton
            Waikato University, PriceWaterhouseCoopers Lecture Theatre
            6pm

            Thursday, July 31
            New Plymouth
            New Plymouth Boys’ High School
            6pm

            Saturday, August 2
            Whanganui
            War Memorial Conference Centre
            2pm

            Sunday, August 3
            Ratana
            Church Service, Waipounamu St
            11am

            Palmerston North
            Convention Centre
            2pm

            Monday, August 4
            Wellington
            Mac’s Function Centre
            6pm

            • vto 4.2.1.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 9:17 am

              Chch?

              • veutoviper …
                21 July 2014 at 9:42 am

                They seem to be announcing dates and venues only about 10 days to 2 weeks beforehand, and have not yet announced South Island dates etc.

              • freedom …
                21 July 2014 at 9:46 am

                THE PARTY PARTY! [SOUTH ISLAND]
                Thursday, July 24 The Foundary, Christchurch – 10 Bar, Dunedin 19:00

                not sure of the Roadshow itinerary in the South Island, perhaps it has not been released yet.

                • Kiwiri …
                  21 July 2014 at 12:48 pm

                  That second line they put out on Facebook is a bit garbled.

                  1. The reference has conflated the Christchurch and Dunedin events.
                  2. The Christchurch event is at the Foundry (Bar), not Foundary, which I take it to be at 90 Ilam Road, that is a student bar on the Univ of Canterbury campus.
                  3. The Dunedin event will be taking place a couple of days later at the 10Bar (not Sammy’s as reported at some stage?).
                  4. The Christchurch event goes from 7pm-1am; the Dunedin one goes from 8:30pm-3am.

                  I found some info for buying tickets online and posted them at 2.1.2.2.1.

                  Their organiser should take another look at and double check the various info put out through their press releases, eg scoop.co.nz, their Facebook page and elsewhere online.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    21 July 2014 at 3:07 pm

                    Quite important, confusing or contradictory details are not a good look

                    • Kiwiri …
                      21 July 2014 at 3:36 pm

                      They moved the Dunedin venue to something nicer and more appropriate (thanks for the heads up, Pasupial). That is clever and a good call.

                      Yes, the weather might not be very nice and so perhaps they should have a shuttle outside the old venue to ferry people in case some turn up there. That would build up even more political capital and goodwill.

                    • vto …
                      21 July 2014 at 4:53 pm

                      The Foundry in Ilam or the Foundry in Woolston? One is in the middle of Brownlees urban middle blue sinkhole, the other in the middle of touch-and-go Port Hills working class earthquake-forgotten hard arses (though the local Foundry occupied by Ilam types).

            • bad12 4.2.1.1.1.2
              21 July 2014 at 9:28 am

              Lolz, and i thought i had Wellington sussed, Mac’s function centre, never heard of it, will Google it up later and post some reminders here in ‘Open Mike’ in the days leading up to the Wellington event…

              • freedom …
                21 July 2014 at 9:39 am

                Lower Taranaki St, Cable St intersection on the waterfront near Te Papa.
                Big red brick building. Entry to function centre on Taranaki St side opposite Circa Theatre

                • Rosie …
                  21 July 2014 at 10:25 am

                  Jenny, phil and others. Great to hear about the Internet Mana roadshow first hand. (Good to know I’m not the only who has political dreams) What a breath of fresh air they are!

                  May they sweep through our islands collecting the hearts and minds of the disenchanted, the young, the hopeful, and the forgotten.

                  May the fantastic line up of the party party shake the foundations of their venues with their sound. Wake the town and tell the people!

                  May Laila return to parliament, in power, with Annette and Hone at her side. ( I have a soft spot for Laila, she is a former employer. She is a determined, a quick and strategic thinker and has bucket loads of energy, I could never fathom where she got it all from. I’m guessing she’s in her element right now)

                  I like hearing about all the positive campaigning events happening around the country. Keep it up comrades.

                  • Kiwiri …
                    21 July 2014 at 12:58 pm

                    Good to read the comments of the Internet Party’s second-ranked candidate, Chris Yong:

                    “In recent years, I’ve become quite disillusioned with our government. I feel they just don’t have the interests of New Zealanders at heart. Despite public concerns they pushed through state asset sales, are happy to risk our natural environment with deep sea oil drilling, and breached our right to privacy under the Bill of Rights with mass surveillance.

                    “Further to that, the cost of living especially in Auckland is crippling. An average income earner cannot afford an average priced home, financial stress is a huge problem affecting many people.”

                    http://chrisyong.net/

                • bad12 …
                  21 July 2014 at 11:05 am

                  Cheers for that freedom, will spread the word around the bro’s…

                  • freedom …
                    21 July 2014 at 11:57 am

                    Will be trying to get to the Aug 4 event myself so might see you there, of course I won’t know if I do 🙂

                    • bad12 …
                      21 July 2014 at 12:49 pm

                      Here’s your clue to picking ‘i’ head out in the crowd freedom, ”looks like a thug, could be a thief”, see you there…

          • Clemgeopin 4.2.1.1.2
            21 July 2014 at 11:55 am

            Whatever you do, DON’T click on the purple dots! You never know what might happen!

  5. bad12 5
    21 July 2014 at 8:01 am

    Slippery the Prime Minister via my wireless this morning intimating that He will be announcing a decision on what National intend to do about the East Coast Bays seat next week,

    Winston Peters, also via my wireless, strangely not being so certain today of contesting the above mentioned seat,

    Colon the ‘honestly why don’t you believe me, we are not loonies, Conservative, also via you know what announcing not only that the Conservatives are fully transparent,(like P 🙄 G everyone sees right through them), but, the bottom line isn’t really a bottom line,(and apparently there’s lots of people out there that do not believe that the Conservatives are loonies, so there)…

    • Bearded Git 5.1
      21 July 2014 at 9:23 am

      Yep agreed bad12.

      And Slippery was nicely nailed by Espiner this AM on whether he knew about Dotcom earlier. Espiner said Coleman knew about Dotcom 2 years before Key and asked Key if Coleman had told him about Dotcom. Key came back saying that this was not true to which Espiner said it was true. Cue lots of panic blather from Key at that point, including Key saying he would refuse to resign even if he had lied about this.

      Worth a listen on Morning Report.

      • bad12 5.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 9:38 am

        Bearded Git, thanks for filling in the gaps, i caught the bit where Slippery the Prime Minister said He wouldn’t resign even if DotCom produces the smoking gun,

        Between the pair of them, Slippery and Espinner, my ears had tuned out the salient points your comment addresses,

        That FF-ing Espinner sounds more and more like a Manic that the shrinks have on the wrong brand of anti-depressants, His delivery is far more suited to the fare-welling of cadavers from a funeral home than addressing the nation via National Radio,

        my poor old much verbally abused wireless is now in danger of suffering the further indignity of actual physical harm from having that Dee-rrrr droning at me for the mornings news hour…

      • Gosman 5.1.2
        21 July 2014 at 9:39 am

        To be fair he stated that they have investigated the matter and could find no evidence of any connection before when he stated he heard of him. He then said there might be something out there he was unaware of at this stage and if this came to light he wasn’t going to resign over it.

        • freedom 5.1.2.1
          21 July 2014 at 1:02 pm

          Hollow words from a Prime Minister who has stated repeatedly he cannot remember his view on the Springbok Tour, or when exactly he made trades for Andrew Krieger or that he promised not to raise G.S.T or that he will stand by the Pike River families or that no-one in Christchurch will face the struggle alone.

          Why do you still stand behind the bunting, excitedly waving your little blue and yellow flags?

          If in a couple of weeks the PM announces that they had to refuse entry to Greenwald for whatever reason, will you also refute he said the following about whether Greenwald would be allowed into the country?

          “I don’t know actually, it’s a legitimate question but there’s nothing we’d be concerned with there,” Key said on Breakfast.

          • freedom 5.1.2.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 4:13 pm

            OR is our PM saying they would not be concerned if Greenwald’s entry was refused?

            that is something a journo should get clarification on …

            • phillip ure 5.1.2.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 4:50 pm

              stopping greenwald from entering the country wouldn’t work for them…it wd get global-publicity..

              ..and he cd b streamed in on a big screen…

              ..lose..lose…

      • Tiger Mountain 5.1.3
        21 July 2014 at 9:47 am

        Wondered what Key’s line would be when he is finally snookered on Dotcom issues.

        He could probably squiggle out if it was only about timeline “I had to choose Hobbits over nasty union members, I did it for you, so not lying, national interest ”. Sadistic torys would vote for him anyway with pleasure.

        BUT, unfortunately for ShonKey this involves NSA, FBI, Five Eyes, US Corporates, MPAA, NZ security agencies and him as minister and Prime Minister. Mr Dotcom seeming to further delve into the Snowden haul may turn up something in that direction showing incontrovertibly that the NZ state security forces and government were used to directly intervene on behalf of offshore corporates.

        If the Prime Minister of New Zealand undermining the countrys sovereignty, parliament, surveillance and labour laws on behalf of a foreign power is not of major concern to citizens then I don’t know what would be.

        • karol 5.1.3.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:19 am

          I suspect that the evidence KDC ha will be circumstantial, and not a smoking gun that delivers a knock-out blow.

          • Tom Jackson 5.1.3.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 11:30 am

            Or there could be Snowden documents that show Dotcom was right.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.1.3.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 3:04 pm

              Yeah, there’s got to be a reason why he’s got Greenwald coming.

              • phillip ure …
                21 July 2014 at 4:56 pm

                as i said yesterday..i stood on the edge of that stand-up dotcom did with the corporate media at the harawira/harre/dotcom roadshow..

                ..where both tvone and 3 tried to run that ‘you’ve got nothing!;-line past him..

                ..and dotcom almost laughed in their faces..

                ..that they wd think he was so stupid as to say he had the goods on key..and then not to have those goods..

                ..i’d bet a pound to a pinch of horseshit that dotcom will deliver those ‘goods’ on the 15th of sept..

                ..it’ll be the best show in town on that nite…

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.3.2
          21 July 2014 at 10:30 am

          I believe that even if Dotcom has evidence of everything Tiger Mountain says it will not affect National’s vote. It might affect IMP’s turnout though.

          The way to win this election is to put in the hard yards, not rely on magic bullets. Put it this way: Martyn Bradbury has predicted it will be a game changer.

        • Gosman 5.1.3.3
          21 July 2014 at 11:03 am

          I am sure if Mr Dotcom’s revelations involve external and internal spying agencies and a provable linkage to Key then he will have the PM well and truly screwed. However I doubt he has that level of detail.

        • Weepus beard 5.1.4.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:07 am

          Hilarious. Key and his office are laying the groundwork for being proved wrong on this. It will end up all being a paperwork mistake and the fault of some middle tier public service official.

          This is exactly why Internet Mana have chosen a date close to the election, so that it resonates loudly when a lot of undecided will be listening most carefully. Key and his loyal media servants are all trying to force the information out earlier so they have more time to manage the fallout.

          There must be some desperate calls from the ninth floor to Crosby Textor. Key is in danger of misreading the undecided vote on this issue. Trustworthiness is important to fair-minded New Zealanders (but not so much to existing right wing voters).

          • yeshe 5.1.4.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 10:40 am

            The biggest disadvantage now for Key is Dotcom’s alliance and access to Snowden and Greenwald who actually know much more about everything than Key or Crosby Textor ! This is a game-changer .. can’t wait for justice to breathe free once again in our little precious islands. Kia Kia, Kim !

            Thanks Weepu … sharing hilarity with you 🙂

            • Clashman 5.1.4.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 12:13 pm

              Is there any reason Greenwald could be denied entry to NZ?

              • fender …
                21 July 2014 at 12:24 pm

                Certainly, if Key deems it a threat to Nationals security….

                • Clemgeopin …
                  21 July 2014 at 12:55 pm

                  LOl! National party security as opposed to National security!

                  • yeshe …
                    21 July 2014 at 1:14 pm

                    lol Fender ! There would always be the option of Skyping him in, or similar. Oh, how small and tiny, plus internationally notorious the Shonkey govt will appear if they try to block a respected British journalist from entry !

                    • fender …
                      21 July 2014 at 1:43 pm

                      Yes I’d say blocking his entry will be just as scandalous as the information he (hopefully) brings.

                • freedom …
                  21 July 2014 at 1:33 pm

                  “I don’t know actually, it’s a legitimate question but there’s nothing we’d be concerned with there,” Key said on Breakfast
                  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10290609/Key-calls-Dotcoms-bluff

                  • Kiwiri …
                    21 July 2014 at 2:49 pm

                    Let’s dissect that from the pathological liar:

                    I don’t know —> translates into: oh fk

                    actually —> fk fk darn fk

                    it’s a legitimate question —> even in lies there resonates an element of truth

                    but there’s nothing —> yeah right! nothing to see here! that is why he is on the media

                    we’d be concerned with there —> administer a lie detector for this phrase and he will come through with flying colours for that specific phrase

      • Kiwiri 5.1.5
        21 July 2014 at 1:02 pm

        It is time to end the silly and stupid catch-me-if-you-can game that the Prime Twister likes to play.

        Enough of the nonsense and lies from him.

        VTBO.

  6. SPC 6
    21 July 2014 at 8:16 am

    The veneer of civilised behaviour is falling from the Israeli regime.

    To shell a Gaza City suburb as an act of spite because a Hamas ambush killed 13 Israeli soldiers is one of the most cowardly acts in modern history.

    The strongest condemnation for it should come from the international community.

    While as strong a critic of Hamas as many, this is just appalling from the Israeli government.

    It is sufficient to warrant a call to the Ambassador to offer some explanation to the PM.

    • swordfish 6.1
      21 July 2014 at 8:28 am

      Israeli State terrorism has always greatly exceeded anything carried out by Hamas.

    • SPC 6.2
      21 July 2014 at 8:29 am

      The deliberate killing of civilians by a national military is a war crime.

      • Tiger Mountain 6.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 8:39 am

        Totally agree, this is collective punishment by the dirty filthy Israeli army. Surely the most blatant genocide style attack since the Tamil massacre in Sri Lanka.

        Resistance and non compliance with the Zionist illegal occupation is defence.

        • Ennui 6.2.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:13 am

          I despair for the Palestinians and Arabs under Jewish occupation. To the state of Israel to perpetrate crimes against humanity in this manner is to ape and condone what was done to their forbears in Europe by another evil regime. They will of course deny it, label Arabs terrorists. If you want terror try being a child playing soccer on a beach being blown to shreds by a terrorist state.

          The only way to stop this is for the Jewish adherents of the state of Israel to face truth with honour and say enough is enough to their people. It is to late for the dead: it is never too late for the living.

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 6:43 pm

            They will of course deny it, label Arabs terrorists.

            Villification and stereotyping were powerful tools used by Goebbels.

    • Tom Jackson 6.3
      21 July 2014 at 8:35 am

      Even John Kerry has had enough (see his recent off mic outburst).

      But good luck getting anything done while AIPAC is still legal.

      • Tiger Mountain 6.3.1
        21 July 2014 at 8:54 am

        Never mind the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Join the boycott on Israel. Consumers can vote with their wallets with these very clever apps for Apple and Android (price–free).
        https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/buycott/id585933440?ls=1&mt=8
        https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.buycott.android

        Boycotts no use? Read Naomi Klein’s view on why it is now time.
        http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/10/naomi-klein-boycott-israel

      • Gosman 6.3.2
        21 July 2014 at 9:12 am

        Why shouldn’t AIPAC be legal? That is a very odd statement to make.

        • Tom Jackson 6.3.2.1
          21 July 2014 at 10:02 am

          Because it’s effectively a treasonous organisation. It promotes the interests of a foreign state above the interests of the United States.

          I would have thought that doctrinaire conservatives would oppose the existence of an organisation which is designed to get the US to funnel taxpayers’ money to a foreign state which then acts in ways which frustrate US interests in the region.

          Hell, that same country was allowed to attack an American naval vessel and kill many of its crew with complete impunity. It spies on the United States and we have good reason to believe it has stolen nuclear materials from US labs.

          And all of this just to indulge the far right racialist fantasies of a minority of American Jews. A fantasy that sees a third of the current ruling coalition of Israel comprised of openly racist parties (as opposed to the Likud, which is racist, but not openly).

      • Once was Tim 6.3.3
        21 July 2014 at 6:28 pm

        “Even John Kerry has had enough (see his recent off mic outburst}”
        Not yet quite enough though to challenge the status quo or his comfort zone. Airforce 2 is not exactly uncomfortable
        Maybe a few more Net yer Nah Who? (I dunno – it’s all somebody else’s fault – WE’RE the victims here – besides I’m reading from a CroZTextor script) bloodied 4 year olds with the back of their heads blown off deserve it cos they’re the sons or daughters of tearists.
        Even then though ? Not if there’s a plausible excuse and explanation that – either it didn’t happen; OR it was a proportional response.
        Gawd that red blood is luvly ain’t it – we should ALL roll in it [Ooooo yea – it’s really really turning me on! gimme more MORE].
        Obamarama roll and tumble (with Tacho Bell, KFC, a bit of Mick Chicken and some Black Water salad dressing on the side).
        Luvly.

        Oh … btw Ya ALL – we’re the good guys: we’re centrist – NOT fascist RW those “far left cunts” opposed to that MSM you muddle class subscribe to. If you’re not convinced – just consider how wonderful our weekly efforts are on Q+A, and the Nation, and Rinny Ryan’s fair and balanced Mondays.
        We’re the fair and balanced, the average NewZulluner, the voice of the people, the in-touch, the 4h Estate even – AND we’re fukkin gorgeous with it. Why even our stance on that silly bitch Tania Billingsly says it all – we’re y’avrijde bloke.

        Like I’ve said elsewhere – the tipping point is nigh – probably closer to 2017 though – and there’ll be a shitload of squeeling pigs and “wasn’t me’s” when it comes around.
        Sadly – I probably won’t be around to witness it

  7. Don't worry. Be happy 7
    21 July 2014 at 8:30 am

    Mana was the only political party represented at the peace march for Gaza in Dunedin. They have my vote.

    • mickysavage 7.1
      21 July 2014 at 8:47 am

      You will find that every Labour party activist was putting up billboards on Saturday. Mana had the privilege of paying someone to put theirs up. Honest the Dotcom money is a boon for them but it is also a threat to them.

      • Tiger Mountain 7.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 9:02 am

        Not in Owairaka Auckland they didn’t Micky, Internet Mana candidate Joe Carolan had a crew of around a dozen out at a frozen 2am putting their signs up. Kelston Internet Mana Roadshow ads were put up by volunteers too. Can’t comment on other Mana branches yet.

        People are stretched but a couple of people and a banner or sign should be able to be spared by all left parties for important events such as Gaza solidarity.

        • mickysavage 7.1.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 9:12 am

          Hi TM. I and most members are fully opposed to Israel’s attacks on Palestine. You just have to see my own posts on the subject to see this. I am normally the first at a protest but Saturday was a busy day.

          Apologies to Comrade Joe. I had thought that the speed that their signs had appeared meant that they had used paid help. I was still in bed at 2 am!

        • Rosie 7.1.1.2
          21 July 2014 at 10:43 am

          Tiger Mountain, I have a lot of respect for Internet Mana (as per enthusiastic post above) but I would question the wisdom of going about the neighbourhood at 2am banging away at a hoarding with a hammer.

          A chronic insomniac like me finally gets off to sleep at 1 – 2am and who wakes at the slightest sound would be not well pleased to hear a hammer banging away outside. Nor would it please the sleep deprived mother who is catching a bit of sleep between feeds for her young baby, nor the shift worker who has to get up at 3.30am to get to work.

          Not a criticism, just a thought.

          • Clemgeopin 7.1.1.2.1
            21 July 2014 at 1:06 pm

            May be the Internet Mana should put up virtual hologram sign boards! Wouldn’t that be cool!

            • Kiwiri 7.1.1.2.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 1:10 pm

              Wot? Like a Princess Laila/Leia against the Evil Empire? Haha.

              • greywarbler …
                21 July 2014 at 1:29 pm

                @kiwiri
                LOL very satirical and ironical. They welcome bright people with alternative approaches at IMP – why not roll up to the Party that’s on its way up in the elevator.

                National wouldn’t let you ride in its elevator, the Greens wouldn’t use it to encourage personal effort and save energy, Labour had an elevator but they lost it somewhere, and are waiting for it to come back dragging it’s tail behind it.. IMP could be the coalition for you.

      • Murray Olsen 7.1.2
        22 July 2014 at 2:02 am

        Mickysavage – what evidence do you have that Mana paid people to put up their billboards? I’ve seen quite a few photos of ordinary Mana members making them, and erecting them.

        Not a good look, micky. We really need a bit more cooperation against Key.

  8. vto 8
    21 July 2014 at 9:01 am

    Internet Mana are rising. The Greens will be solid. Labour will go over 30% plus extra seats in Chch and elsewhere. NZ First will go over 5% easy. MP bye bye.

    National will flounder in the mid-high 40%s. Act and Dunne are down the dunny.

    The left bloc will have the numbers by at least two imo.

    But this still wont be easy. The rest of NZ will scream from the top of their lungs about the mismatch of putting together so many small parties. The cries and wailing will be alarming. The left bloc will immediately be put on the defensive.

    The left bloc must have a plan to combat this immediately on the night of the election – and come out fighting hard and strong for the people. No apology, no hand-wringing, no mutters of ‘it wont be that bad’, no backing down.

    2c

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      21 July 2014 at 9:15 am

      Agreed vto. IMHO no-mates apart from loonies National will poll 43/44%. That is good, but not good enough to stop Cunliffe from being PM. It’s called MMP.

    • Lanthanide 8.2
      21 July 2014 at 9:40 am

      For whatever it’s worth, iPredict has National on 43%, Labour on 32%, Greens on 11%. Minor parties combined come to 14%, with NZFirst on 5.3%. Weirdly iPredict is still largely in favour of a National win, despite the percentages above strongly favouring the left.

    • cricklewood 8.3
      21 July 2014 at 9:49 am

      Personally I feel that if a govt can be formed from the four parties of the left it needs to have a greater majority than one or two seats. My fear been that if all four parties are needed things could become fractious and dysfunctional quickly. If NZs first experience with a full on coalition govt is a poor one long term damage could ensue. It is vital I would have thought that Labour poll at least 35% then forming a coalition with all left parties instead of leaving one or two out in the cold. Hopefully then there will be a big enough majority to allow the smaller parties to disagree with one another on occasion without causing major disruption.

      • JanM 8.3.1
        21 July 2014 at 11:56 am

        Not nearly as fractious and dysfunctional as National trying to cobble something together, with, say NZ First – now that would be a circus!
        But I agree – all the left parties need to be in there together – none of this cherry-picking I keep hearing

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.2
        21 July 2014 at 3:48 pm

        If NZs first experience with a full on coalition govt is a poor one long term damage could ensue.

        It’s not. NZFirst’s one, and only, coalition collapse was with National in 1996 to 1998. Considering NZFirst’s policies they can’t go with National this time at all. They basically have two options: Sitting on the cross benches and voting issue by issue or going into coalition with Labour.

    • Rosie 8.4
      21 July 2014 at 10:48 am

      I like your 2 cents vto. I also agree their will resistance from the media and some sectors of society at a Left bloc win. They know such a win means no more same old same old instead something bold, something bold!

      In such a case we have to collectively stand and be proud of the change we bring. No apologies.

    • Clemgeopin 8.5
      21 July 2014 at 1:14 pm

      Who knows! Just imagine that the National voters begin to realise that National will not be able to form a government and therefore decide to switch their votes to Labour for stability and collapse the National party vote to 30% minus and Labour vote to 52% plus! oops, just musing!

      • The Lone Haranguer 8.5.1
        21 July 2014 at 2:05 pm

        In your dreams Clemgeopin.

        My dream has the Labour right defecting after the election to form a new group who will look at taxation policy and reduce income tax, increase GST and introduce a financial transactions tax that should have been done when GST was introduced in the first place. A UBI would be okay by me too.

        I guess neither of us are going to wake up happy on 21 September 2014.

        • Clemgeopin 8.5.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 2:54 pm

          I will be happy because I am CERTAIN that there will be a Labour led progressive coalition government.

          Of you want to make a pole of cash on that, head to i-predict now when the iron has not yet heated up!

  9. Weepus beard 9
    21 July 2014 at 9:15 am

    Wrote to Steve Kilgallon yesterday asking about the inaccuracies in his article, why it needed to be edited by another reporter, and what he was trying to achieve. This is his response.

    (Weepus beard)
    You’re confusing me with someone with an agenda. I have none. I just report interesting stories. The story is genuine and the source is real. Whether you like what they say or not is up to you. As regards my career and job prospects, you’re best directing such enquiries to my editor
    All the best
    Steve

    It’s convenient for some journalists to hide behind claims of impartiality whenever they get a bit of flack for sloppy work. Does beg the question: if Steve is not someone with an agenda, is he not going to vote in September?

    • Anne 9.1
      21 July 2014 at 9:19 am

      Interesting comment from Brent Edwards: Seems the consensus of opinion among his Caucus sources is that it was not one of the MPs who talked to the SST.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20142419/analysis-from-our-political-editor

      • Bearded Git 9.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 9:27 am

        yep Anne, and I liked the text to Morning Report that said that nobody kicked up a fuss when Key went on holiday to Hawaii for 10 days, but when Cunliffe has 3 days off (among New Zealanders) with his young family suddenly this is an issue.

        Maybe for the next 9 weeks we should bombard Morning Report with texts particularly where they are showing bias? It all helps.

        • greywarbler 9.1.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 9:47 am

          @Anne
          Probably it was a reporter (journalist) saying ‘what everybody is thinking’ and on that basis it wasn’t necessary to check the facts. Or fax?

          • Bearded Git 9.1.1.1.1
            21 July 2014 at 10:46 am

            Even 69% Herald readers happy with Cunliffe holiday-online poll today.

            • freedom 9.1.1.1.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 11:02 am

              67% on the Stuff poll also say they are happy with it,
              and the Stuff poll was a straight yes/no

        • Gosman 9.1.1.2
          21 July 2014 at 9:51 am

          On what basis would Radio NZ National be biased against Labour? The organisation is supposedly an independent State entity that doesn’t need funding from the ‘evil’ private sector.

          • fender 9.1.1.2.1
            21 July 2014 at 9:57 am

            Yeah supporting National Key doesn’t mean you are anti-Labour does it, but it sure helps avoid a throat-slitting gesture come your way and will ensure you get more work than Bradley Ambrose….

            • Gosman 9.1.1.2.1.1
              21 July 2014 at 11:35 am

              Eh???

              • McFlock …
                21 July 2014 at 1:46 pm

                you’ve got a short memory, there, gos.
                Almost as bad as dunnokeyo’s.

                Maybe some sort of amnesia is transmitted from toryboy to toryboy?

                • Gosman …
                  21 July 2014 at 2:44 pm

                  I am sure you have a perfect memory and as such can she’d light on what point fender was making.

                  • fender …
                    21 July 2014 at 2:52 pm

                    The point is many journalists would be afraid of the consequences for attacking the National Key Party.

                    • Gosman …
                      21 July 2014 at 4:40 pm

                      As evidenced by what exactly? Do you have examples of a journalist annoying National having their career impacted as a result?

                    • felix …
                      21 July 2014 at 6:21 pm

                      As evidenced by journalists going easy on National, of course.

                      Put the goalposts back, there’s a good chap.

                    • Gosman …
                      22 July 2014 at 6:24 am

                      What an entirely circular argument. Do you really think that is terribly persuasive?

                  • Clemgeopin …
                    21 July 2014 at 2:59 pm

                    I think he was referring to the nasty/disgusting/uncouth/undignified throat cutting gesture that Key once made in parliament against a Labour leader.
                    Remember that?
                    The MSM did not even crtisise the dear leader then.
                    Just imagine if Mr Cunliffe had made that gesture to Key!

                    • Gosman …
                      21 July 2014 at 4:44 pm

                      It was reported. Key was even asked what he was meaning by the gesture and he gave a response. You might not agree with his response but what do you want the media to do? Should they basically editorialise that it was a terrible thing despite his denial?

                    • McFlock …
                      21 July 2014 at 4:49 pm

                      oh wow, your memory has partially returned. Good for you.

                    • felix …
                      21 July 2014 at 6:26 pm

                      “You might not agree with his response but what do you want the media to do? Should they basically editorialise that it was a terrible thing despite his denial?”

                      If that’s the way they usually treat everything the Leader of the Opposition does, which it is, then yes.

                  • McFlock …
                    21 July 2014 at 4:47 pm

                    let’s see – one incident involved our prime minister’s expression of concern for a chap who tried to leap from the parliamentary gallery, the other involved police raiding press offices just days before the election in order to shield government ministers from disgrace.

                    I can see how an ethically-challenged sociopath might not recall those events (let alone outraged), but what’s your excuse you tory shill – oh, fair enough then, no further excuse needed.

          • framu 9.1.1.2.2
            21 July 2014 at 12:27 pm

            “On what basis would Radio NZ National be biased against Labour?”

            what goes to air obviously

            • Gosman 9.1.1.2.2.1
              21 July 2014 at 1:17 pm

              Why would what goes on air be biased against Labour though? Even if National has somehow infiltrated the organisation via political appointees at the senior level (something I have seen NO opposition politician complaining about it has to be pointed out) how they can influence the editorial decision of the news team is unclear. Does this mean the majority of the journalists working at Radio NZ National are suspect then? How will this be rectified unless you implement a politically inspired cleanse this time from the left?

              • McFlock …
                21 July 2014 at 1:48 pm

                How will this be rectified unless you implement a politically inspired cleanse this time from the left?

                “this time”?
                Don’t you mean something more vague, like “the next time the Left is in government”?

                Otherwise it sounds like you think the Left will win ths election. Thanks for the reassurance.

        • Anne 9.1.1.3
          21 July 2014 at 9:52 am

          I noted that The Fan Club made a brief comment yesterday after a lengthy absence. I seem to remember he/she may have been banned for bad behaviour, but still it’s interesting he/she should reappear on the post “Collective Renewal”. As a self-described “Labour insider” and Cunliffe hater, one has to wonder what he/she might know about the source of the SST story.

      • deep throat 9.1.2
        21 July 2014 at 10:02 am

        of course it wasn’t.
        it was all fabricated by that creepy little hooton looking so smug as it went down on Q&A Sunday morning and susan woods is complicit.

    • SPC 9.2
      21 July 2014 at 10:39 am

      The question is whether the source was an MP or not.

      • Weepus beard 9.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 11:12 am

        I didn’t ask that directly, unfortunately. I believe what is left unsaid is important. Nowhere does Kilgallon say the insider is an MP.

        • anker 9.2.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 6:13 pm

          WB @9.2.1 I also emailed Steve and said I didn’t believe the story and I thought he had made it up. He denied this and refused to name his source, so I asked him if had check out the story with the MP whom the senior advisor quoted.

          I will update if I hear back.

    • greywarbler 9.3
      21 July 2014 at 12:09 pm

      @Weepus beard
      Feed the Steve guy some interesting stories. He is obviously an open mouth at a fairground just waiting for a well-placed ball, or perhaps a trained seal waiting for a fish, and doesn’t care whether it’s smelly or not.

  10. greywarbler 10
    21 July 2014 at 9:45 am

    I see discussion in the Work Life Balance thread yesterday about denigrating comment from some within Labour against David Cunliffe being printed in The Hairy or somewhere like. Shocking – I hope that there is a Cluedo search with appropriate punishment meted, when it is seen where this arose.

    And I noticed Guy Le Spinner this morning saying something about Labour MPs having a ‘crisis’ meeting and then there was a reasoned explanation given, that it was a replacement for the usual meeting which would have been time limited by other commitments.

    • deep throat 10.1
      21 July 2014 at 9:49 am

      this is all crap.
      I suspect it is all concerted by boaghootoncrosbytext.
      as somebody said earlier here it is time to start flooding switchboards with complaints.
      if supposed reputable organisations start playing the partisan card then they must be held responsible for their actions.

    • Bearded Git 10.2
      21 July 2014 at 5:16 pm

      grey-Kathryn Ryan repeated the “crisis” tab in the politics discussion on Nine to Noon, where as you say this description had already been shown to be rubbish on Morning Report.

      Either Ryan is badly briefed or she is simply being her Tory self and getting it wrong on purpose.

  11. deep throat 11
    21 July 2014 at 10:04 am

    RNZ news is going on about DC being under pressure balh blah blah.
    Well it will show the voters that DC can take any crap that they throw at him.

  12. Once was Pete 12
    21 July 2014 at 11:01 am

    I see the news is reporting that DC had lunch with the name suppressed sex offender. Whilst I have been heavily critical of him previously, I have a lot of sympathy for him on this one.
    I have met this bloke once (I won’t say any thing that could identify him) when my ex wife and another couple were on holiday. He was totally sex obsessed, and insisted on showing us a sick video clip of a dominatrix kicking some restrained guy in the goolies. But he was also a high energy and engaging bloke. He would have no problem greasing his way into any setting, especially men of middle age or above.
    This is one of the problems of the ridiculous name suppression laws, especially as in this case the victim wanted his name published.

    • fender 12.1
      21 July 2014 at 11:19 am

      If Key gets his pleasure by being kicked in the nuts, that’s his business…

    • Gosman 12.2
      21 July 2014 at 11:40 am

      Why didn’t his staff do the leg work to identify whether the person was dodgy or not? It should be easy enough to do and would have been the sensible course of action especially if you have lunch with them.

      • greywarbler 12.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 12:13 pm

        Gosman. We must call you Mr Sensible. You can’t get the ‘Commonsense’ term now Dunne is done as Winston has grabbed it. Hope it works for him.

    • Puckish Rogue 12.3
      21 July 2014 at 12:21 pm

      Agreed as fun as it is kicking Cunliffe when hes down and keeping the foot on his throat this is something that he has no control over rather its the dumb ass suppression laws we have in this country

  13. TomBradford 13
    21 July 2014 at 11:21 am

    For those with the time and inclination over lunch or coffee I recommend:

    http://newleftreview.org/II/87/wolfgang-streeck-how-will-capitalism-end

    A long read, but IMHO an excellent and informative overview of the mess capitalism has created for itself globally.

  14. Jan 14
    21 July 2014 at 11:50 am

    I would think Audrey Young could be called to account for the fact that her story about the sex offender was hidden behind another innocent headline, I nearly didn’t click through, then wished I hadn’t because I spent some time in confusion trying to place the relevance of the second headline – had we gone back in a time warp of some sort ? Wish I knew how to access that protected person’s name – I am so burned up with curiosity now !

    • yeshe 14.1
      21 July 2014 at 1:43 pm

      The SST reported this warning exists on an overseas website. I guess you could just google the text exactly as they published it ..

      WARNING: It is illegal for this editorial to be accessed by New Zealand readers because of suppression orders in that country’

      • Tom Jackson 14.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 1:56 pm

        Apparently it’s not illegal to access it, but it is illegal to link to it on a NZ site.

        Even if it were illegal to access it, the law is definitely an ass in this situation, as it’s pathetically easy to find it.

    • Clemgeopin 14.2
      21 July 2014 at 1:48 pm

      I googled with the words ‘sex offender Queens town’, read an article by Rodney Hide and soon was led to an Australian website and Hola!

    • Chuck Bird 14.3
      21 July 2014 at 3:30 pm

      [deleted]

      [lprent: Breaks the suppression order. Banned permanently. ]

  15. Graham 15
    21 July 2014 at 11:54 am

    I know that Cunliffe wants all the votes he can get in his New Lynn electorate. But it sure is strange that he has his hoardings up in Phil Goff’s Roskill electric proclaiming “Vote Cunliffe for New Lynn” Look out Phil, the carpet bagger is about. An Labour thinks it could run the country?

    [You are an idiot. Both electorates are contiguous. And the main roads have people travelling through Mount Roskill into New Lynn – MS]

    • Graham 15.1
      21 July 2014 at 2:10 pm

      It’s not on a main road. It’s on a through road in the centre of the Roskill electorate. I know I may be an idiot but I am also a swinging voter but not such an idiot that I do not know where the electorate boundaries are. 🙂

  16. bad12 16
    21 July 2014 at 11:55 am

    ‘taint politics i know, but, i gotta give a big ups to Lydia Ko for Her latest winning round of golf,

    i couldn’t play the game to save myself, what i try to hit hard as far as golf balls go pretty much turns out to be limp but i can drive a putt miles past its intended destination,

    No such problems for that young lady and i had the pleasure of watching the free to air sports channel on my TeeVee one night which featured a whole tournament on the Asian circuit which Ko won just befor turning pro,

    Relentless is the best description of the way She run down the front runner of that tournament who at the point where the final round started was 9 shots in front of Her…

    • alwyn 16.1
      21 July 2014 at 12:09 pm

      At last! I had to read right through this series of posts to come to one that addresses the important things in life.
      Everyone else is obsessed with the trivia of politics. You and I appear to be the only ones who appreciate the magnificent display by Lydia. She makes it look so easy doesn’t she?

      • bad12 16.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 12:41 pm

        Indeed, watching her play there’s nothing overly flash about how she goes about the game its just the consistency with which she puts herself in a position of maybe birdying the hole and Her ability when she is on Her game to do just that,

        The tournament in Asia which i comment on above had me watching with fascination as all round Her there were some amazing golf shots by the other competitors but none of them could deliver a continual flurry of such golfing shots,

        Normally i go ‘yawn’ at the mention of the game…

  17. karol 17
    21 July 2014 at 12:27 pm

    The NZ Herald has gone Te Reo in its name on its site. Pity it doesn’t support politics that would decrease inequalities.

  18. Graham 18
    21 July 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Thought you would censor my comment and not post it. So much for “Open Mike” 🙂

    [Guess again. But try and make your comments informative rather than attacking people, especially the good Labour activists in New Lynn – MS]

    • freedom 18.1
      21 July 2014 at 2:08 pm

      Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Yay for Open Mike‘ !

    • Graham 18.2
      21 July 2014 at 4:01 pm

      I was wrong!!! The Standard did post my comment. I enjoy putting a burr under the saddle on tunnel vision Labour people. I do the same for National on their site. Great fun. Have a good one MS.

      • Te Reo Putake 18.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 4:27 pm

        Didn’t realise this was a Labour site. When did that change happen and can somebody let all the greens, IMPers and unaligned others who post the majority of comments here know?

        • McFlock 18.2.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 4:59 pm

          Graham is a legend in his own mind. He doesn’t let reality get in the way of blows for freedom.

  19. TomBradford 19
    21 July 2014 at 1:13 pm

    I used today’s Open Mike to draw attention to what I regard as an excellent essay on the mess globalised capitalism has gotten itself into, including growing inequality. The ‘problem’ of democracy is addressed therein, vis:

    ” Only in the Cold War world did capitalism and democracy seem to become aligned with one another, as economic progress made it possible for working-class majorities to accept a free-market, private-property regime, in turn making it appear that democratic freedom was inseparable from, and indeed depended on, the freedom of markets and profit-making. Today, however, doubts about the compatibility of a capitalist economy with a democratic polity have powerfully returned. Among ordinary people, there is now a pervasive sense that politics can no longer make a difference in their lives, as reflected in common perceptions of deadlock, incompetence and corruption among what seems an increasingly self-contained and self-serving political class, united in their claim that ‘there is no alternative’ to them and their policies. One result is declining electoral turnout combined with high voter volatility, producing ever greater electoral fragmentation, due to the rise of ‘populist’ protest parties, and pervasive government instability.”

    It’s a long essay but well worth the time if you have it:

    http://newleftreview.org/II/87/wolfgang-streeck-how-will-capitalism-end

    [lprent: And it is completely off-topic for this post. So moved back to back to OpenMike. Don’t do a diversion comment again or I will ban you. At present the ban time is getting longer the closer we get to the election. ]

    • Ergo Robertina 19.1
      21 July 2014 at 1:40 pm

      Thanks for that link. Politics is divorced from most people’s lives, which trundle on whichever party is at the helm. There is growing instability and eccentricity at the fringes, but with no big-ticket issue like asset sales, I would be surprised if 2014 doesn’t garner a lower turn out than 2011.
      Caught up with an old friend recently, a teacher, who has never evinced much interest in politics. This election she will vote National, despite criticising the party for wrecking the public education system. Seems counter-intuitive in the extreme. National’s wrecking of education affects her career, and her family (she has children), while surely education is critical to the ‘standard of living’ she credits National with upholding. She will vote National to ensure continuation of the status quo; it was like there was no alternative. It’s disturbing, people seem inured to the damage being wrought in their own lives from National’s policies, let alone being able to grasp the big picture.

  20. Weepus beard 20
    21 July 2014 at 1:14 pm

    Rich people worried they might have to associate with poor people #1029146

    These are the types Michael Cullen referenced when he spoke of his dislike for people kicking the ladder out once they’d reached the top.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/10291461/Proposed-school-zones-cause-upset

    Hooton! Haha, he can’t keep out of the news.

    • Tom Jackson 20.1
      21 July 2014 at 3:42 pm

      What’s hilarious is that they seem to think that caveat emptor applies to everyone except them.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1
        21 July 2014 at 5:18 pm

        Socialist bailouts for the rich, please. Up to and including the sports stadiums they so seem to love advocating for.

  21. ZoFran 21
    21 July 2014 at 2:07 pm

    Not related but Cuncliffe is gonna be having a live chat on stuff in a couple of hours – http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10290443/David-Cunliffe-live-chat
    He might need a little help fending of the assholes who are bound to show up and hassle him about the infamous ‘holidays’ and other bullshit news from the MSM.

    [lprent: Off-topic. Moved to OpenMike. Banned for 3 weeks. ]

  22. freedom 22
    21 July 2014 at 2:22 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10290443/David-Cunliffe-live-chat

    Seems there is a Live Chat with David Cunliffe today at 4:30 , Questions open from 3:30

    • Weepus beard 23.1
      21 July 2014 at 2:40 pm

      That’s interesting. A similar campaign against state workers has been waged in this country, and not by leftists, as you call them.

    • KJT 23.2
      21 July 2014 at 4:06 pm

      You must have been asleep, Gosman, over the last few years in New Zealand, as all our skilled young people left for Australia, our graduate students left to pursue study offshore as their funding was cut, and most of our best researchers, engineers and scientists, left for places where they are appreciated.

      We have lots of “managers” accountants and lawyers, though……..

      • Gosman 23.2.1
        21 July 2014 at 4:35 pm

        If you read the article you will find out it was the loss of those managers you seem to deride that have caused the problem of the stagnating oil industry in Venezuela.

        • deep throat 23.2.1.1
          21 July 2014 at 4:47 pm

          the problem with Venezuela is that it is a criminal state.
          New Zealand is heading down that path now under a national government.
          New Zealand is also always under threat from conspiracy jobs, and other nutjobs who are against everything and ready and willing to resort to violence when they dont get their own way.
          The country needs a proper makeover and its time for decent people to get back in charge.

  24. North 24
    21 July 2014 at 3:05 pm

    This wouldn’t be ‘our’ favourite conceited wee MattyMatty prick would it ?http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/10291461/Proposed-school-zones-cause-upset

    “A public school turf war has broken out in the quiet Auckland suburbs of Greenlane and Remuera.
    “Parents from two elite Auckland public schools are up in arms after learning of a proposal to put them in an overlapping zone with two lower decile schools.”
    “Parent Matthew Hooton owns a house in the proposed overlap and says the consultation has been “wholly unsatisfactory”.”
    “You live in this area because you pay $100,000 more for your house so you can access Epsom Girls Grammar and Auckland Grammar School,” he said.”
    “Any perceived threat to these zones will be met with fierce resistance.”

    What ? You mean the sons and daughters of the scum Matty ?

    To the ramparts ye broken, abused, ill-treated Entitled. And no smirking. They won’t take us seriously !

    Could be worse Matty – you might’ve just had your bennie slashed in half – no lunch for the kids let alone a school befitting your ‘station’.

  25. Colonial Viper 25
    21 July 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Stuff.co.nz still being little shits

    He’s back from holiday and Labour leader David Cunliffe is answering your Qs at 4.30pm here

    https://twitter.com/NZStuffPolitics/status/491058772211556352

    • freedom 25.1
      21 July 2014 at 3:40 pm

      questions open from 3:30 pm

    • Puddleglum 25.2
      21 July 2014 at 8:50 pm

      “He’s back from holiday …”

      Childish; puerile intimation of rank silliness dressed up as a controversy. Yet no doubt thought to be clever by the author of the tweet.

      A mind wastes its time and we’re all that little bit the worse for it.

  26. Adrian 26
    21 July 2014 at 3:46 pm

    Alwyn and bad12, yeah good on Lydia but golf is only a pastime, now try leading the whole Tour de France field for 20 metres short of 220kms. Thats hard work and heartbreaking. Good on you Jack Bauer, your day will come.

    • deep throat 26.1
      21 July 2014 at 4:49 pm

      what party is he standing for?

    • RedLogix 26.2
      21 July 2014 at 9:50 pm

      I’ve lost it with GT cycling – I’m fed up with watching riders cruise all day in the peloton or get towed along by teammates, and then put in a bit of an effort in the last 10 or 20k to pull off stage wins they really haven’t worked for.

      And while Nabali is a good rider – all his possible contenders are out of the race. All he has to do is not fall asleep from boredom and fall off his bike.

  27. Once was Tim 27
    21 July 2014 at 5:47 pm

    Barry at 2.1,.4 (since a reply button is not forthcoming)
    Can you tell me where and when that ‘something you heard’ was?
    Please – can we engage with the fukwit Barry a bit more? As in get him to actually put his money where his mouth is? I’m intrigued.

  28. Kellar 28
    21 July 2014 at 8:57 pm

    i think the media are not conscious of their bias. they have a huuuuuuugggggeeeee. disconnect with the majority of nz. they are biased before the get go. they wont be kind to the left until the left becomes the right. to them socialism is debunked and the neo-lib way is the only way. and they assume this is the view of the whole country. its an issue of culture and sub-concious.

    • McFlock 28.1
      21 July 2014 at 9:32 pm

      case in point was the commenter here “liam hehir”, who carries the same name as a columnist in a regional rag. The columnist said they didn’t write about labour’s positivies because it was a true reflection of Labour’s lack of positives, not because the columnist was biased.

      yeah, right.

  29. Penny Bright 29
    21 July 2014 at 9:26 pm

    FYI

    What does Hamas really want?

    Read the list of conditions published in the name of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and judge honestly whether there is one unjust demand among them.

    Rafah Crossing

    Palestinians from Gaza at the Egyptian-controlled Rafah border crossing last week. One of Hamas’ demands is to have internationa… / Photo by Reuters

    By Gideon Levy
    Published 13:23 20.07.14

    After we’ve said everything there is to say about Hamas: that it’s fundamentalist; that it’s undemocratic; that it’s cruel; that it does not recognize Israel; that it fires on civilians; that it’s hiding ammunition in schools and hospitals; that it did not act to protect the population of Gaza – after all that has been said, and rightly so, we should stop for a moment and listen to Hamas; we may even be permitted to put ourselves in its shoes, perhaps even to appreciate the daring and resilience of this, our bitter enemy, under harsh conditions.

    But Israel prefers to shut its ears to the demands of the other side, even when those demands are right and conform to Israel’s own interests in the long run. Israel prefers to strike Hamas without mercy and with no purpose other than revenge. This time it is particularly clear: Israel says it does not want to topple Hamas – even Israel understands that instead it will have Somalia at its gates – but it is also unwilling to listen to Hamas’ demands. Are they all “animals”?

    Let’s say that’s true. But they are there to stay, even Israel believes that’s the case, so why not listen?

    Last week 10 conditions were published in the name of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, for a 10-year cease-fire. We may doubt whether these were in fact the demands of those organizations, but they can serve as a fair basis for an agreement.
    There is not one unfounded condition among them.

    Hamas and Islamic Jihad demand freedom for Gaza. Is there a more understandable and just demand?

    There is no way to end the current cycle of killing, and not have another round in a few months, without accepting this.

    No military operation, by air, ground or sea, will bring a solution; only a basic change of attitude toward Gaza can ensure what everyone wants: quiet.

    Read the list of demands and judge honestly whether there is one unjust demand among them
    _________________________

    withdrawal of Israel Defense Forces troops and allowing farmers to work their land up to the fence;

    release of all prisoners from the Gilad Shalit swap who have been rearrested;

    an end to the siege and opening of the crossings

    opening of a port and airport under UN management

    expansion of the fishing zone

    international supervision of the Rafah crossing;

    an Israeli pledge to a 10-year cease-fire and closure of Gaza’s air space to Israeli aircraft;

    permits to Gaza residents to visit Jerusalem and pray at the Al-Aqsa mosque

    and an Israeli pledge not to interfere in internal Palestinian politics such as the unity government

    opening Gaza’s industrial zone.

    These conditions are civilian; the means of achieving them are military, violent and criminal. But the (bitter) truth is that when Gaza is not firing rockets at Israel, nobody cares about it. Look at the fate of the Palestinian leader who had had enough of violence. Israel did everything it could to destroy Mahmoud Abbas. The depressing conclusion? Only force works.

    The current war is a war of choice, a choice that we had. True, after Hamas started firing rockets, Israel had to respond.

    But as opposed to what Israeli propaganda tries to sell, the rockets didn’t fall out of the sky from nowhere.

    Go back a few months: the breakdown of negotiations by Israel; the war on Hamas in the West Bank following the murder of the three yeshiva students, which it is doubtful Hamas planned, including the false arrest of 500 of its activists; stopping payment of salaries to Hamas workers in Gaza and Israeli opposition to the unity government, which might have brought the organization into the political sphere. Anyone who thinks all this would simply be taken in stride must be suffering from arrogance, complacence and blindness.

    Terrifying amounts of blood are being spilled in Gaza – and in Israel to a lesser extent. It is being spilled in vain.

    Hamas is beaten down by Israel and humiliated by Egypt.
    The only chance for a real solution is exactly the opposite of the way Israel is going. A port in Gaza to export its excellent strawberries? To Israelis this sounds like heresy.
    Here once again, the preference is for (Palestinian) blood over (Palestinian) strawberries.

    Penny Bright

  30. Colonial Viper 30
    21 July 2014 at 10:23 pm

    Man breaks woman’s back in domestic assault

    Maybe someone can give this guy a cushy job in mainstream media next.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10290926/Womans-back-broken-in-alleged-assault