Open mike 23/02/2012

122 comments on “Open mike 23/02/2012 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   23 February 2012 at 6:11 am

   MUNZ seek support

   The Maritime Union appreciates the community support so far. While we continue to push for a settlement of the dispute via collective bargaining we are seeing no movement from the Port Company except to progress the contracting out process. As a result we have no choice but to fight for maintaining some security of employment and against the contracting out of our jobs. This week therefore sees the start from Friday of a two week strike at the Port.

   Your support is going to be increasingly important to us as we fight over issues that are significant for us all.

   Catch-up with the issues at http://www.saveourport.com

   Picket Support

   We will have a 24/7 picket at Teal Park – outside the Fergusson Wharf gate (in front of the Westpac Rescue Centre) corner Tamaki Drive and Solent Street from 10 am Friday 24 February . If you are Auckland based or visiting town we would appreciate you joining us at the picket where you can learn about the dispute, directly from the workers concerned and show your solidarity. Where ever you live you can encourage people you know to come and join us. We are particularly inviting the community to visit on 25-26 February and 3-4 March 11am-3pm when there will food, children’s’ activities and entertainment for all. Parking is on Tamaki Drive and surrounding streets. Contributions of food are appreciated and can be left at the picket.

   Please join us.

   Financial Support

   We have set up 2 ways for individuals to provide financial support for our members.

   By calling our information line 0900ourport / 09006877678 to make a $5 automatic contribution.

   or by depositing money into our bank account:

   Account name: MUNZ National Fighting Fund

   Account number: 02-0560-0450165-004

   Branch: BNZ Manners Street, Wellington

   Deliveries

   We are organising groups to deliver postcards in your local area. If you haven’t already indicated you are willing to deliver a one hour bag of delivery and are able to, let us know.

   Website and Facebook

   Visit http://www.saveourport.com or http://www.facebook.com/saveourport to keep up to date with the dispute. Please encourage others to visit the site and sign our online petition. Attached to this email is a copy of the petition which you can take to your workplace, community organisation and events to encourage people to sign.

   Keep in touch via http://www.saveourport.com or by ringing 09 9510226

   In Solidarity,

   Garry Parsloe

   National President Maritime Union of NZ
2. Carol 2

   23 February 2012 at 6:25 am

   So JonKey is too busy to mee the PSA over public sector cuts even though this is a policy Key has fronted on?

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6464535/PSA-disappointed-Key-won-t-discuss-cuts

   Prime Minister John Key has refused a request by the Public Service Association for an urgent meeting to discuss his plans for the state sector.

   Earlier this month Mr Key signalled more mergers and job losses as the Government continues its goal of slashing $1billion from the public service.

   The Government is looking at how technology such as smart phones can be used to replace over-the-counter contact and how savings can be made through further sharing of back-office functions such as human resources.

   Mr Key plans to outline the Government’s proposals in a speech next month and has warned he will “make no apology” for trying to make the state sector more efficient.

   Too busy for this, yet he never seems too busy to take holidays in Hawaii, or to spend an hour chatting about cats and other trivial stuff on the radio, to meet with Warners’ execs who are looking for some extra NZ taxpayer money and law changes…..etc, etc….?
   • Jenny 2.1

     23 February 2012 at 10:41 pm

     The PSA need to link up with the Maritime workers.

     MUNZ need the numbers and the PSA need a way of making the Government sit up and listen.
3. Jenny 3

   23 February 2012 at 6:55 am

   ‘
   A lock out by any other name would smell as sweet?

   Customer Advisory
   An update from Tony Gibson

   We want to achieve a lasting and sustainable solution to the current labour productivity issues and disruptive action in Auckland as quickly as possible through two separate and parallel processes: firstly through negotiations on a Collective Agreement which will deliver improved flexibility, and a long term solution to the current productivity issues which have diminished our customer focus and impaired the Port’s performance for decades; and secondly, through consultation on a proposal to contract out labour at the Port.

   Tony Gibson, Customer Advisory, 22 February 2012

   Getting rid of the union by outsourcing, and seeking a collective with the union are both mutually exclusive of each other.

   The inescapable conclusion is, the Ports of Auckland are only going through the motions of negotiating with the union, to meet their minimal legal requirements to do so.

   The Ports of Auckland ltd. are on track with their premeditated plan to lock out the union members.

   Contracting Out Proposal:

   POA issued an RFP to prospective contractors on 10 January, and we are now in advanced discussions with contractors on the proposal. We’ve had three meetings with the union, but consultation has been relatively one-sided. We will be asking MUNZ to give us a formal response to the proposal by early next week. Meanwhile, the Port has been gathering views from prospective contractors and other staff through the consultation process. We’ll be reviewing this feedback over the next two weeks with a view to deciding whether we take this approach further. Our consultation process on a contract-out model is not just with union members, or stevedores, but involves a complete organisational review.

   Tony Gibson, Customer Advisory, 22 February 2012
4. james 111 4

   23 February 2012 at 7:19 am

   These are possibly the 5 best sentences you’ll ever read:

   1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy
   out of prosperity.

   2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work
   for without receiving.

   3. The government cannot give to anybody, anything that the government does
   not first take from somebody else.

   4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

   5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work
   because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other
   half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is
   going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any
   nation.
   • shorts 4.1

     23 February 2012 at 7:38 am

     emphasis on the possibly

     5 sentences that will earn you a failing grade in economics
   • freedom 4.2

     23 February 2012 at 7:56 am

     ahhh, James, read number four again and then explain your oft spoken love of a system that’s very foundation is built upon fractional reserve banking?
   • mickysavage 4.3

     23 February 2012 at 8:00 am

     How about these?

      1. It is regrettable that some wealthy insist on accumulating so much when if it was shared around many would benefit.

     2. What a chief executive receives without deserving many struggling workers must work without receiving properly.

     3. The government can and does create wealth.  Anyone who denies this is a fool.

     4. New Zealand does not have a wealth problem, it has a sharing problem.

     5. When 1% of the people get the idea that they are entitled to exorbitant wealth because the remaining 99% is going to take care of them, and when the other 99% understands this is wrong, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
     • james 111 4.3.1

       23 February 2012 at 8:04 am

       Micky
       What wealth did the last Labour government create in nine years? Answer none they just taxed people to death
       • mickysavage 4.3.1.1

         23 February 2012 at 8:06 am

         James 111 arguing with you is like arguing with a rock.
         • tc 4.3.1.1.1

           23 February 2012 at 11:16 am

           A rock gives off the impression of potential wisdom whereas james opens his mouth and removes all doubt there’s ony RWNJ dribble
           • McFlock 4.3.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2012 at 11:52 am

             And rocks also give the hope of finding they contain small nuggets of precious minerals. 
                
             James is more like a coprolite.
       • framu 4.3.1.2

         23 February 2012 at 8:20 am

         yes i remember the times well.

         piles of bodies in the streets
         hazmat teams burning the dead
         tax relief soup kitchens were everywhere

         im just grateful we didnt live in any of those countries which paid even more tax than we do.
         • Lanthanide 4.3.1.2.1

           23 February 2012 at 12:04 pm

           “im just grateful we didnt live in any of those countries which paid even more tax than we do.”

           Like you mean almost all of the rest of the OECD?
           • framu 4.3.1.2.1.1

             23 February 2012 at 3:44 pm

             yeah – thems the ones
   • Colonial Viper 4.4

     23 February 2012 at 8:20 am

     1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy
     out of prosperity. Correct. You simply legislate against the wealthy ticket clipping the poor.

     2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work
     for without receiving. But this will be the end of capitalism – an entire ownership class who gets massive economic benefits while others do the work for them on the minimum wage or close to it

     3. The government cannot give to anybody, anything that the government does
     not first take from somebody else. Correct. Tax the wealthiest who can afford it, the most. Don’t worry they’ll still have plenty for another investment house, overseas holiday and a couple of new cars afterwards.

     4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!Correct. This is why the wealthy insist on taking wealth from the many and giving it to themselves, the few. That way they can MULTIPLY the wealth of the country…for just themselves.

     5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work
     because the other half is going to take care of them, Actually this happens when work means having a minimum wage JOB (just above broke), and we have an economy which doesn’t need or want NZ workers.

     FIFY Jimmy
   • Blue 4.5

     23 February 2012 at 9:45 am

     Oh, that old chestnut that the highest-paid amongst us work the hardest, and therefore deserve the most, while the people who do the hardest, dirtiest, most dangerous jobs in our society deserve the least.

     Millions of dollars a year for a CEO, minimum wage for a caregiver looking after the elderly.

     All is right in James111’s world.

     But I would agree that number 5 is a problem. When half the people got the idea that property speculation would mean they didn’t have to work and could live off their tenants, and the other half decided to leave because there was nothing here for them but tenant-slavery, the country did indeed go to hell in a handbasket.
     • Vicky32 4.5.1

       23 February 2012 at 5:07 pm

       Oh, that old chestnut that the highest-paid amongst us work the hardest, and therefore deserve the most, while the people who do the hardest, dirtiest, most dangerous jobs in our society deserve the least.
       Millions of dollars a year for a CEO, minimum wage for a caregiver looking after the elderly.

       Seconded! My daughter in law works at Selwyn Village, and pours her heart into caring for her “ladies” – for peanuts!
       It bothered me last year when I worked at the language school, getting $35.00 an hour, leaving at 6.00 pm and seeing the cleaners come in then, knowing they were just starting, cleaning up our mess for half the money…(That being said, despite that my job was far more temporary than they ever let on 🙁 , I preferred it to cleaning!)
       At least schools are not all that filthy…
   • Draco T Bastard 4.6

     23 February 2012 at 1:46 pm

     No, they’re all BS. There’s only poverty because of the rich. Get rid of the rich and there won’t be any poverty. The actual truth is that you cannot get wealthy without stealing from the rest of the community.
5. travellerev 5

   23 February 2012 at 8:09 am

   A couple of days ago the Standard started a thread with the fact that the National lead government had broken the $ 50 billion debt ceiling. One of my comments there was that they were doing Greece on us triggering an avelange of Gosman misinfo crap.
   Here are some time lines and articles with regards to the Greece/Goldman history you might find interesting:

   http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-washington-dc/read-it-and-weep-a-timeline-of-goldman-sachs-corruption

   http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/02/inside-the-mind-of-an-investment-banker-greece-goldman-and-derivatives.html

   http://antioligarch.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/what-chase-goldman-sachs-did-to-greece/

   The Matt Taibbi article with regards to Goldman Sachs actively betting that Greece would fall is particularly poignant.

   And Gosman? Go fuck yourself with your pathetic misinfo tripe
   • Gosman 5.1

     23 February 2012 at 8:32 am

     No misinformation travellerev. I just pointed out the many flaws in your Goldman Sachs causing the Sovereign Debt crisis conspiracy theory.

     What you fail to understand is that it was the Greeks inability to cut Government spending , (or at least to fund it domestically), which is at the heart of their problem not Goldman Sachs setting up deals for them. You might like to treat a modern sovereign nation like some sort of drug addled crack whore incapable of making rational decisions. I prefer to place the blame squarely on the people who spent the cash, not on the ones who enabled them to borrow it.

     At least you should now know the EU is not the same as the Eurozone. So you have learnt something.
     • vto 5.1.1

       23 February 2012 at 8:51 am

       Neither a borrower nor a lender be. They are both fools. And each cares not a jot for the other. This has always been the way.

       But given that the entire monetary system is a privately owned ponzi scheme it is clear that the solution is an erasion and replacement of the scheme. No ponzi schemes last.

       But this ponzi scheme called the fractional reserve banking system just gets completely ignored in your shallow one-dimensional assessments.
       • Gosman 5.1.1.1

         23 February 2012 at 9:04 am

         Not just mine vto. I have yet to see one mainstream NZ politician rally against fractional reserve banking. You may very well be right, however your views have yet to persuade anyone, even on the left of the political spectrum, that is likely to be in a position of power in future.
         • vto 5.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2012 at 9:15 am

           Again so shallow gosman.

           Clearly ideas for change to systems which are not sustainable take time to gain traction in the mainstream and then for politicians to be brave enough to pick them up. This has been the case with such things as limited voting, slavery, apartheid, foreign ownership of land in NZ, the list goes on and back into time. But you will surely realise this. The fact that the fractional reserve system is not being picked up by politicians yet is immaterial to the issue.

           The fractional reserve banking system is a ponzi scheme. You are aware of this and it should figure in your in-depth analysis of everything monetray, no? In particular the global debt problem, no? I mean, should the monetary system be included as part of an analysis of this problem gosman?
           • Gosman 5.1.1.1.1.1

             23 February 2012 at 9:59 am

             It’s not just not being picked up by politicians. It isn’t even being picked up by any mainstream political party at a discussion level as far as I can see.

             There is also no influential grass roots movement or pressure group bringing this to the public attention. All there seems to be is some fringe far left people throwing this idea around amongst themselves.

             You might like to compare this to the process to change limited voting, slavery, apartheid, etc (laughable in my mind) but those things took decades to change and this was despite strong support for them. You have nothing at this stage.
             • Colonial Viper …

               23 February 2012 at 10:08 am

               Wow…you can’t see the mainstream power structures acting to undermine the banking system which shares with them some of its power? I wonder why that is.

               As usual the Keiser Report reveals much.
               • Gosman …

                 23 February 2012 at 10:15 am

                 It’s not just me who can’t see this C.V. It is pretty much all mainstream political parties in the Western world (including the left leaning ones). Now I’m sure you believe your ideas make sense yet it isn’t an old idea. As you pointed out variations on a non-Fractional Reserve Banking system have been practiced in the past. However the ideas you expouse are failing to gain traction for some reason. It must be very frustrating for you C.V.
                 • vto …

                   23 February 2012 at 10:29 am

                   The ideas etc are not “failing to gain traction”. In case you hadn’t noticed across the entire western world especially, since the gfc, these thoughts and ideas are in fact gaining traction. In evidence see the Occupy movement, among others.

                   Unless you have any evidence that there is less discussion around the monetary system today than before the gfc, then you are simply wrong.
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 10:57 am

                     The Occupy movement? Oh yes now I remember, that little leftist get together at the end of last year. How’s that all going now? Must have achieved something surely.
                   • vto …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:03 am

                     Excellent, thanks gosman, an acknowledgement that the issues around the monetary system and its unsustainable nature are gaining traction and being openly discussed (your opinion on the Occupy people is immaterial to the relevance of its existence, which is what your point concerned), contrary to your point above.
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:21 am

                     No acknowledgment at all.

                     In fact I don’t think the Occupy Movement managed to convey any such message that they were against the Fractional Reserve Bank System. Sure they were angry at bankers but so what. I’m angry at bankers a lot as well and I work for a bank. Doesn’t mean I want to change the syatem.

                     If even a leftist like Naomi Wolf isn’t picking up that one of the main issues of the Occupy movement is with Fractional Reserve Banking (see http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog1.php/2011/11/27/naomi-wolf-occupy-has-objectives) what hope do you have of getting this message wider coverage VTO. You certainly ain’t goin get it posting here.
                   • vto …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:29 am

                     Ok gosman, you are right … there is less discussion around the world’s money system today than there was a few years ago.

                     bonkers
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:35 am

                     I didn’t state that. I did state that the specific idea that the problem is with Fractional Reserve Banking isn’t gaining traction. You haven’t really provided any evidence that it is.
                   • vto …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:40 am

                     No Gosman. I did provide evidence by way of the Occupy example. You have provided no evidence for your assertion.
                   • AAMC …

                     23 February 2012 at 6:34 pm

                     Gosman you’re a gift…

                     “In fact I don’t think the Occupy Movement managed to convey any such message that they were against the Fractional Reserve Bank System”

                     “The Disastrous Success of Fractional Reserve Banking”

                     http://theoccupiedtimes.co.uk/?p=1026

                     http://occupychi.org/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=684

                     http://occupywallst.org/forum/end-the-federal-reserve-and-the-fractional-reserve/

                     http://plancast.com/p/853c/occupy-federal-reserve-end-fractional-reserve-banking

                     http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimkiernan/6532691879/
                 • AAMC …

                   23 February 2012 at 6:29 pm

                   Washington Post mainstream enough for you Gossy?

                   http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/modern-monetary-theory-is-an-unconventional-take-on-economic-strategy/2012/02/15/gIQAR8uPMR_print.html
             • vto …

               23 February 2012 at 10:11 am

               I just dealt with all of those points above. And you don’t answer my question.

               As always.

               Why do you not take the fractional reserve banking system, and its ponzi unsustainable nature, into account when discussing the global debt situation and in particular Greece?
               • Gosman …

                 23 February 2012 at 10:19 am

                 Because I reject your proposition. As does most of the Governments and opposition parties in the Western world. It must eat you up inside at times to be so sure your views are correct yet noone in a position of influence can see what to you is obvious.
                 • vto …

                   23 February 2012 at 10:25 am

                   Oh, so you don’t consider the very nature of the fractional reserve money system in discussing the global debt problem and in particular the Greek debt situation because of me.

                   well done.

                   pathetic attempt at diversion and avoidance.
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 10:35 am

                     I’ve already discussed previously why I reject the issues with fractional reserve banking.
                   • vto …

                     23 February 2012 at 10:39 am

                     “I’ve already discussed previously why I reject the issues with fractional reserve banking.”

                     What you have said is that you reject the issues with fractional reserve banking because few politicians take them up.

                     That’s fine. At least it adds to an understanding of your understanding of the world, namely;

                     1. shallow.
                     2. the fractional reserve monetary system is immaterial to the current global debt problem.
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 10:48 am

                     No, on another thread I discussed why I reject the proposition from an economic stand point.

                     Now I have a couple of questions for you.

                     Have you ever discussed the issues you have with the fractional reserve banking system with any politician of a left leaning party (Labour, Greens, Mana, heck even NZ First)?

                     If you did, did they slowly back away from you while making excuses why they had to go?
                   • vto …

                     23 February 2012 at 10:57 am

                     Well gosman, that is not what you said above. If you have outlined reasons for viewing the fractional reserve banking system as inert in the global debt situation elsewhere then, without you outlining them again now, the discussion will have to stop. Useless.

                     As to your two questions, no. I don’t have anything to do with political parties, either from the right where I have placed most of my votes or from the left where I, and most the world imo, have dabbled and are now heading back to.

                     Conclusion as to the value of this mini-thread with you – witheringly useless.
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:06 am

                     So let me get this straight then.

                     So you haven’t presented your entirely presuassive and rock solid argument that the current financial system we live under in the Western world is a Ponzi scheme and needs to chang to anyone who might have an ability to actually change the system.

                     Instead you come on to a Blog site and express these views in the comments section among people that essentially agree with you but are on the whole largely powerless to do anything about them at this stage.

                     Wow! I admire your persistence. Much like I admire the Wile E Coyote’s persistence chasing the Road Runner. What’s the definition of insanity again? Something about doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
                   • vto …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:27 am

                     Don’t presume so much gosman, you just look a fool. I attend to things such as this in my own particular way, which has its effects, trust me.

                     As for comments on a blog site – the reasons I bung around on here are my own personal ones (and not very good one really). And anyway as I understand, this site is watched and commented on at times by, by way of example sample, politicians as senior as Mallard and journalists as senior as Hooten and Garner. So your claim that it is ineffectual is in fact completely wrong. Blog sites are referenced by all manner of commentary in the modern world – maybe you have missed that change.

                     .

                     What amazes me Gosman, is that you refuse to take the nature, structure and ownership of the world’s debt system into account when discussing the world’s debt.
                 • AAMC …

                   23 February 2012 at 6:36 pm

                   Mainstream economics and politics being such a measure of success at this juncture too eh Gosman. At least you don’t have unattainable expectations..
                 • AAMC …

                   23 February 2012 at 6:39 pm

                   Gosman, can you explain how on the one hand you are opposed to Government debt, but on the other defend the system that creates out of thin air and runs on such vast quantities of it?
             • AAMC …

               23 February 2012 at 6:26 pm

               “There is also no influential grass roots movement or pressure group bringing this to the public attention.”

               I’d watch out for Occupy on May1st before proclaiming that Gos..
           • vto 5.1.1.1.1.2

             23 February 2012 at 10:10 am

             I just dealt with all of those points above. And you don’t answer my question.

             As always.

             Why do you not take the fractional reserve banking system, and its ponzi unsustainable nature, into account when discussing the global debt situation and in particular Greece?
             • travellerev …

               23 February 2012 at 10:19 am

               VTO,

               Gosman says no mainstream politician is up to the task of calling the reserve bank to task but in London mayoral candidate Livingstone is calling for the hanging of a banker a day until they get it as his slogan to get elected. That’s progress I reckon.
               • Gosman …

                 23 February 2012 at 10:28 am

                 Wasn’t Ken Livingston the Mayor of London previously? You know in the early 2000’s when the Bankers were running riot. Also how is ‘hanging bankers until they improve’ the same as deciding to change the banking system to be non-fractional resevere banking?
           • AAMC 5.1.1.1.1.3

             23 February 2012 at 6:24 pm

             Haven’t had a chance to read this yet, but an MMT’r on fiat..

             http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.nz/2011/11/merits-of-debt-money-system.html
         • travellerev 5.1.1.1.2

           23 February 2012 at 9:15 am

           I hope your masters pay you well shilly G, I really do, because you’re going to need every cent when it goes to pot globally.

           And for those of you still believing John Key is here for your interest here is another shill doing his masters dirty work
         • mikesh 5.1.1.1.3

           23 February 2012 at 7:59 pm

           There is a fair amount of fairly respectable (right wing) economic opinion which is opposed to fractional reserve banking. i.e. Milton Friedman, Hayek, von Mises etc.
     • Pascal's bookie 5.1.2

       23 February 2012 at 9:13 am

       If I understand your analogy correctly, the deficit spending is the crack, which would make GS the dealer.

       I’m no great fan of the war on drugs, but if we believe crack use to be a problem in society, I’m not convinced that a good respnse would be to have the state enforce the payment of users tic bills. YMMV of course.
       • Gosman 5.1.2.1

         23 February 2012 at 10:07 am

         Nope, you don’t understand the analogy at all.
         • vto 5.1.2.1.1

           23 February 2012 at 10:30 am

           Nope, P’s b absolutely understood the analogy.
           • Gosman 5.1.2.1.1.1

             23 February 2012 at 10:40 am

             Who was using the analogy again vto? Oh that’s right it was me. Therefore I think I would know if PB was understanding the purpose of it wouldn’t you agree?
             • Colonial Viper …

               23 February 2012 at 10:45 am

               GS is the dealer and the credit ratings agencies are the thugs and the muscle.
               • Gosman …

                 23 February 2012 at 10:50 am

                 Whoosh!

                 Did you see that C.V?

                 That was the point going over your head.
                 • Colonial Viper …

                   23 February 2012 at 10:55 am

                   And a multitude of unelected politicians and bureaucrats are the inside agents for the banksters, while organisations like the IMF are lobby groups and executive arms for them.
                 • McFlock …

                   23 February 2012 at 12:01 pm

                   Gosman,
                      
                   given that you are a complete tool who has been repeatedly caught lying, fails to read his own sources, and frequently has no idea what he’s talking about, it’s not really a good idea for you to simply assume that your “points” go over other people’s heads. 
                        
                   ’tis better to remain quiet and be thought a stupid lying incompetent selfish tool, than to start typing and remove all doubt…
             • vto …

               23 February 2012 at 10:51 am

               Not at all. If you intended some other understanding then you should be more accurate with your analogies.
               • uke …

                 23 February 2012 at 11:04 am

                 It’s like Humpty Dumpty saying to Alice: “When I use an analogy… it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less”.
               • Pascal's bookie …

                 23 February 2012 at 11:05 am

                 It should be fairly easy to clear this up.

                 it was the Greeks inability to cut Government spending , (or at least to fund it domestically), which is at the heart of their problem gets analogised, somehow, to crack addiction.

                 Looks to me like he was saying the Greeks were ‘addicted’ to not funding their govt spending domestically, forcing them to borrow money from offshore.

                 But you can’t really be addicted to ‘not doing’ something, ergo, it’s the borrowed money that they were addicted to.
               • Gosman …

                 23 February 2012 at 11:10 am

                 Ummmmm….. I think you will find that I basically stated it would be simplistic nonsense to believe such an analogy. But it is always good to see it confirmed that leftists believe in simplistic nonsense. Thanks for the laugh at your expense.
                 • Pascal's bookie …

                   23 February 2012 at 11:26 am

                   No you didn’t. But to save people from scrolling up:

                   What you fail to understand is that it was the Greeks inability to cut Government spending , (or at least to fund it domestically), which is at the heart of their problem not Goldman Sachs setting up deals for them. You might like to treat a modern sovereign nation like some sort of drug addled crack whore incapable of making rational decisions. I prefer to place the blame squarely on the people who spent the cash, not on the ones who enabled them to borrow it.

                   the bold bit is where you use the simplistic analogy you introduced to explain your position. #hack #stupidtroll
                   • Gosman …

                     23 February 2012 at 11:51 am

                     Ummmm…. I think you missed discussing the bit where I stated the actual analogy

                     “You might like to treat a modern sovereign nation like some sort of drug addled crack whore incapable of making rational decisions.”

                     Notice I am attributing this view to someone else (in this case the champion of wacky conspiracy theories travellerev). It is clear in this context it is not a view I share.

                     I also make the distinction between a modern sovereign nations and the drug addled crack whore. This is because I am highlighting that it would be simplistic nonsense to do so. Modern Sovereign nations are nothing like some sort of drug addled crack whore. They are far more complex and sophisicated.

                     But hey, if you want to run with such a simplistic view of the world go ahead and be my guest. It just makes you look like a plonker that’s all.
                   • Pascal's bookie …

                     23 February 2012 at 12:12 pm

                     Then you probably shouldn’t have talked about a ‘greek inability’ rather than a ‘greek choice’. That set up the confusion. In any case, I tend to the view that bankers who loan money* to people with no ability to repay it, ar at least**, as culpable for the resulting shitstorm.

                     **or other peoples money
                     * and probably more.
     • AAMC 5.1.3

       23 February 2012 at 6:09 pm

       A graph to show you the effects of Austerity on Greece’s GDP slide post 2008, think they will ever pay it back while being strangled Gosman/

       The dealer doesn’t get paid when the junkie dies!

       http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/austerity-europe/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

       And a clip, from the mouths of those who dealt with Goldman to help them get into the EU

       http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17108367

       yeah I know Gosman… lalalala, can’t hear you, fingers in your ears and all that..

       my banker buddies told me it was all those lazy Greeks
6. phillip ure.. 6

   23 February 2012 at 8:33 am

   http://whoar.co.nz/2012/the-challenge-to-status-quo-economics-everybody-is-talking-about/

   “…Over the last week, an important approach to economics that has spent years on the sidelines went mainstream: Modern Monetary Theory.

   This is good news for anyone who wants to see the neoliberal paradigm challenged- and a positive sign to heterodox economists who have difficulty getting a hearing in a field still gripped by outmoded models.

   The theory, which provides unusual perspectives on issues including currency, debt, and government spending, kicked off in the mid-90s – and has since grown into a movement.

   Its roster of proponents includes James K. Galbraith; Australian economist Bill Mitchel; Randall Wray and Stephanie Kelton of the University of Missouri-Kansas City; Rob Parenteau; Scott Fullwilier; Warren Mosler; and blogger Marshall Auerback. ‘

   Their insights have been particularly valuable in countering the deficit hysteria which reached a fever pitch in the U.S. during the summer of 2011 –

   – and still darkens policy debates worldwide…”

   (cont..)

   phil-at-whoar.
7. William Joyce 7

   23 February 2012 at 9:02 am

   Bank of America is about to get hammered.
   US$100 billion in litigation from investors claiming fraud in the mortgage backed securities and now it seems the Attorney-General of NY is going after it for all the taxes that weren’t paid on those security deals. – Kaiser Report interview with Chris Whalen of Tangent Capital.
    
   I wonder if our dear leader still has his money in B of A. Knowing that his biography [Not the one written by Crosby Textor] has numerous incidences where he skips town before he has to face the consequences [“It wasn’t me gov. That was after I left town”], I guess he has dumped and run.
   Does any one know his B of A exposure or am I dealing in old news?
    
    
   • travellerev 7.1

     23 February 2012 at 9:53 am

     Hi .William,

     On the government website regarding the financial interests of our politicians the only portion of his wealth outside of his trust funds is shares in BofA.

     This could mean several things. He wants total control and no trust fund managers to know how much he owns in shares.

     The amount in shares is probably considerable making his position as our prime minister a giant conflict of interest.

     They were his long term Merrill Lynch investment shares turned into BofA shares when they were forced to buy Merrill Lynch.

     Some more related facts are that Goldman Sachs is one of the biggest share holders in BofA which does not bode well for NZ.

     Robert Rubin who spent 26 years at Goldman Sachs eventually serving as a member of the Board, and Co-Chairman from 1990-1992 served on the foreign Exchange committee from 1996-1998 after which he went on to preside over the repeal of the Glass Steagall act in the same year.

     What is interesting is that he shared the upon invitation only job with none other than John Key’s direct boss Stephen Belotti and John Key received his invitation to “serve” on that committee which is used as a sounding board for the Federal Reserve of New York and a grooming hotspot for future revolving door politicians/bankers.

     Here is a post I wrote about the 6 degrees of separation and how close John Key is to the key players in the global bankster takeover.

     And no, this is not old news but very opportune because the only way John Key can hang on to his paper wealth is by keeping the system going and that can only be done by indebting the globe further and further into debt so the derivatives bubble ( $ 32 trillion worth) with which he made his money does not collapse.

     Here is John Key confessing on breakfast TV to the fact that every bankster knew that the derivatives trade was a short term Ponzi scheme.

     I hope this helps!
      
     • William Joyce 7.1.1

       23 February 2012 at 10:23 am

       Thanks ev.
       Very informative as usual. Do we have any idea about the level of exposure? The share prices have taken a hit over the last year and there is a prospect of chapter 11 or at least a heavy restructuring, either of which would affect the share price.
       I see from your 6 degrees article he is so well connected that he will not be in the dole cue any time soon, but do we know how much a dive in BofA could hurt his interests?
       • travellerev 7.1.1.1

         23 February 2012 at 11:44 am

         W,

         Thank you for taking the time to check out the links I gave you.

         As I said before the fact that the shares are not in a trust fund therefore not even allowing the trustees of his funds to know the extend of the share portfolio is probably an indication that it is considerable but I think nobody knows the true size of his paper wealth.

         But here is food for thought:

         Would it matter if it was $1 million or $25 million in size or would John Key with his future and his shares in mind play along to get along so he can get a cushy job when he leaves (what he considers to be) this dump?

         Would he violate his own interests in order to break us free from the Reserve bank system which made him a “made man” still beholden to his international finance masters to help liberate his country men from the collapsing system?

         The thing is that unless Greece defaults and goes back to the Drachma and as a result the rest of the financial system goes in meltdown exposing the reserve system for the Ponzi scheme that it is we’re stuffed and under no circumstance will John Key do what is in the best interest of the NZ population. Namely to break away from the reserve system and start issuing interest free government social credit to rebuild the production capability of this country thereby decentralising the power now held by the 1%.

         Here is an interesting analysis by Dan Denning from Ozzie blog the Daily Reckoning: What the Greek debt crisis is all about.
8. Jackal 8

   23 February 2012 at 10:20 am

   Dismantling the reason for war

   The excuses for war have focused mainly on a threat of terrorism from Iran and nuclear weapons falling into the wrong hands. The propaganda for war is as usual, highly flawed. It is based on a falsehood that the United States and Israel are somehow operating their nuclear weapons industries properly, and can therefore judge a hypothetical threat from Iran.
9. Gosman 9

   23 February 2012 at 10:44 am

   Great to see The Standard (comments at least) turning into a playground for wacky conspiracy theorists. I find the best way to scare people off the left is to direct them here to see all the crazy talk of ‘Banksters’ and ‘Shadowy forces’ and ‘Plots to undermine democracy’. You guy’s provide me with hours of amusement.
   • lprent 9.1

     23 February 2012 at 11:07 am

     You should delve back into the archives a bit more. You’ll find massive and extensive archives on building collapses, signatures on paintings, electoral law, labour law on fishing, taxation systems, science of climate change, implication of falling discoveries of hydrocarbons, and just about everything else you want to name.

     It literally comes from across the spectrum and has varying levels of knowledge from your pious knowledge that is usually limited to criticism (and yes there is a place for critics), to people who suggest ideas that are frequently wacky, to those who merely sprout slogans (and risk my boredom).

     The point is that airing and discussing ideas is useful. Coming up with ideas for others to cut holes into is useful. Being a dickhead critic isn’t. Being a good critic is. Pick your place….
     • Gosman 9.1.1

       23 February 2012 at 11:30 am

       Don’t get me wrong. Some of the articles and associated comments are generally quite good. However when anything involves economics or general discussion you get the usual suspects turn up with wacky ideas that are generally unsupported even by the wider left movement. It is the comments I generally direct people to so as to turn them off the left not usually the articles (although a couple have proved useful in that regard).
       • Morrissey 9.1.1.1

         23 February 2012 at 12:08 pm

         “…wacky ideas that are generally unsupported even by the wider left movement”

         Could you explain what you mean please? At the moment it looks like you are out of your depth.
         • Kevin Welsh 9.1.1.1.1

           23 February 2012 at 2:23 pm

           I would suggest that Gosman read up on Copernicus, who resisted openly publishing his views, not wishing – as he confessed – to risk the scorn “to which he would expose himself on account of the novelty and incomprehensibility of his theses.”

           When ever I read the rubbish that Gosman generally spouts, I take a quick look at a comment Felix made a while ago that reads:

           It seems to me that many who self-identify as “conservative” – especially at an early age, the sort of panty-sniffers and thumb-suckers you find in the young nats for example – seem to have never examined exactly what it is they’re identifying as. It’s more like a club they join that offers the security of never having to examine themselves (or anything else) too closely for comfort.

           And understandable if so. Imagine the cognitive dissonance that would arise from actually admitting to yourself that you think things are as good as they’ll ever be and we’d best just stop now, um actually let’s go back a bit just to be sure.

           In fact it’s to their advantage to be a bit thick if they want to hold fast to their thick beliefs, because a smarter person simply couldn’t do it. The best a smart conservative can hope for is a double life where inwardly s/he understands the absurdity of it all but publicly puts on a thick face to avoid confrontation, both internal and within the peer group.

           Awful really. Some of your Nat friends really are this twisted, grinning smugly to the world while cowering behind the eyes.

           And some of them are just thick.”

           And I too, just laugh
       • lprent 9.1.1.2

         23 February 2012 at 12:34 pm

         You’ll find extreme messages on any forum that isn’t subject moderated. Hell, I find them on comment threads that are exclusively on c++. Did you realize that there are conspiracy theories about the c++ 2011 standard?

         We moderate almost entirely on commenting behaviour rather than subjects. There are a few exceptions for the racist, sexist, pointless abuse comments, and generally anti-social commentators. Some people seem to think that raising these in every context are valid subjects. The moderators don’t. But mostly it is behaviours of diversion commenting, fire and forget comments, things that bore the moderators to even read, attacking authors or the site, and all of the paraphernalia of the modern major disruptor.
     • vto 9.1.2

       23 February 2012 at 11:38 am

       Gosman seems to be one of those people who think that conspiratorial behaviour is simply absent from the human condition.

       That is doesn’t exist in business (lol), doesn’t exists in relationships (lol), doesn’t exist in the workplace (lol), doesn’t exist in politics (LOL)….
       • felix 9.1.2.1

         23 February 2012 at 11:55 am

         Weird, ain’t it?

         Gos should tell the police they can stop investigating anyone suspected of conspiring, cos it just doesn’t happen.

         Save them a fair bit of time I reckon.
       • Ianupnorth 9.1.2.2

         23 February 2012 at 12:02 pm

         Gosman is the type of person who comes here, refuses to accept any evidence, spouts generalisations and expects everyone to side with him; pretty pathetic really.
   • Jackal 9.2

     23 February 2012 at 11:11 am

     The Standard documents current affairs. If you have a specific argument against it or those that post here, please define it? Don’t just try to plonk what is obviously troll dung on everything.
   • Lanthanide 9.3

     23 February 2012 at 12:08 pm

     I was wondering why there were so many comments on this thread so early in the day. I was expecting this little green goblin and it turns out I was right.
     • felix 9.3.1

       23 February 2012 at 12:12 pm

       Yep. It’s getting to the point where I’m reading the posts and skipping most of the comments.

       Open mike is pretty much fucked now too by the looks.
     • marsman 9.3.2

       23 February 2012 at 1:05 pm

       Little green boring goblin is not worth reading it’s just gosman dribbling drivel.
10. Morrissey 10

    23 February 2012 at 10:46 am

    Four Injured After Troops Break into Palestinian Home in Jerusalem
    http://www.imemc.org/article/62987
    Monday February 13, 2012 00:00 by Saed Bannoura – IMEMC & Agencies

    Palestinian medical sources in Jerusalem reported that four residents were wounded on Sunday evening, when Israeli troops and policemen broke into a Palestinian home of a former political prisoner, in al-Isawiyya town, in East Jerusalem.

    Eyewitnesses said that the army broke into the home of former political prisoner, Samer al-Eesawy, by smashing the main door, and attacked his relative, lawyer Shereen al-Eesawy, her mother Laila, and her brother Shadi.

    The lawyer suffered fractures in her arm and leg, and was taken prisoner by the police. Her mother was moved to the Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem suffering bruises in the neck, and a fracture in her arm, the Palestinian Information Center reported.

    Also, resident Rami Ismat was shot by a rubber-coated metal bullet fired by the army while invading the town. He was also moved to Hadassah Hospital.

    It is worth mentioning that in October of last year, Samer al-Eesawy was released under the prisoner-swap deal that secured the release of Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, in exchange for the release of over a thousand Palestinian prisoners.

    The first phase of the deal was implemented on October 18, 2011, when Israel released 450 detainees, and Shalit was handed by the Hamas movement to Egypt, and on December 18, 2011, Israel released 550 Palestinian detainees in the second phase of swap-deal.
    • grumpy 10.1

      23 February 2012 at 2:16 pm

      Been a fair bit happenning in Syria recently………….

      Israelis seems a lot more considerate than Assad.

      Just saying…………………………
      • Morrissey 10.1.1

        23 February 2012 at 6:54 pm

        Your ignorance is astounding. Why don’t you find out about what Israel does in the Occupied Territories before you make such a grossly stupid statement?
        • grumpy 10.1.1.1

          23 February 2012 at 7:48 pm

          Not as “outstanding” as your hypocracy.
          • Morrissey 10.1.1.1.1

            24 February 2012 at 9:22 am

            Could you elucidate? Right now, you’re floundering, and I don’t think you are in any way capable of explaining how I am guilty of “hypocracy”.
11. Te Reo Putake 11

    23 February 2012 at 11:15 am

    As we all know, there is no such thing as wage slavery, so I don’t why these guys are bleating so much.
    • felix 11.1

      23 February 2012 at 12:06 pm

      They’re not slaves and slaveowners, they’re rational economic actors maximising their utility.
      • Te Reo Putake 11.1.1

        23 February 2012 at 12:53 pm

        Perhaps we should send Jim Jim and Gossie out into international waters with a copies of Atlas Shrugged and Javanese For Idiots and see how that get on? I’m prepared to chip in a few bucks for the fares, if only for the peace and quiet round these parts while they’re away.
    • grumpy 11.2

      23 February 2012 at 2:18 pm

      A disgusting blot on our international reputation. One wonders how the owners of these fishing corporations can sleep at night………..
12. Jackal 12

    23 February 2012 at 11:19 am

    Paul Henry get’s hammered by the Aussies: “I don’t know him, I don’t want him” Classic!
    • ScottGN 12.1

      23 February 2012 at 11:32 am

      Bugger! I was kinda hoping they’d love him over there so there would be no chance he’d come back here.
      • McFlock 12.1.1

        23 February 2012 at 12:09 pm

        I’m in two minds – if he crashes there, then he’s back on our telly.
        But if he were successful over there, I think the waves of smug infantilism would still radiate powerfully across the Tasman – and more local folk might try to copy him.
        • grumpy 12.1.1.1

          23 February 2012 at 2:15 pm

          I think this one is more objective and McFlock gets his wish…………

          http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/game-on-as-breakfast-crashes-the-morning-tv-party-20120223-1toz8.html
13. Morrissey 13

    23 February 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Upping the IQ in both Australia and NZ…
    Paul Henry comes under fire on Aussie debut

    http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/paul-henry-s-early-aussie-debut-4738470?ref=rss

    Paul Henry has kept true to his controversial reputation in his debut on Australian breakfast television this morning.

    After being wound-up by his co-hosts for being a technophobe, Henry hassled Deputy Opposition leader Julie Bishop for not choosing who she would vote for between Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd.

    In a segment called Henry Hotline, where viewers call to ask Henry a question, one caller said the show had to be “kidding” with the choice of hosts.

    “Never have I seen two out of three more unprofessional newscasters ever in my life,” the caller said.

    “Who’s that bloke with the glasses on? I don’t know him, I don’t want him,” said another caller.

    Henry also commented that one caller sounded like she had been drinking.

    The first airing of Channel Ten’s Breakfast show was brought forward by four days following Labor MP Kevin Rudd’s resignation as Foreign Minister in Washington late last night.

    Rehearsals for Henry and his three co hosts, Andrew Rochford, Kathryn Robinson and Magdalena Rose, were cut short in a bid to capitalise on the ratings from the political fall out between Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Rudd.

    Executive producer Majella Wiemers has said in recent interviews that her job “is to make a show that’s different and unpredictable”.

    An official statement said: “We said be prepared for a show that’s cheeky and unpredictable, and (yesterday’s) surprise resignation by Kevin Rudd means it’s time for Breakfast to launch.”

    Channel Ten, which puts on the Breakfast show, tweeted late last night: “Get and early night, guys! @TenBreakfast will be making a surprise launch tomorrow at 6am!”

    Henry resigned from TVNZ’s Breakfast show after a public uproar over comments about New Zealand’s former Governor General Sir Anand Satyanand and an international outcry over him laughing at Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit’s name.
14. Toosense 14

    23 February 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Where the hell is David Shearer?
    If disappearing is his idea of doing things differently then I’m not impressed.
    I want him to be different but I want to know he’s there and can and will and is taking it to Wankey!

    .
15. Ianupnorth 15

    23 February 2012 at 1:07 pm

    From today’s Herald coverage http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10787478
     
    Now, yesterday on the radio the defense lawyers had cross-examined the two young witnesses, yet todays ‘updated’ Herald story fails to mention this, instead painting a very different scenario to the one described on Radio NZ yesterday.
     
    More unbalanced reporting?
16. Draco T Bastard 16

    23 February 2012 at 2:14 pm

    English issues asset sales challenge

    The Government is challenging opponents of state-owned asset sales to explain why it would be better to borrow billions of dollars from overseas lenders.

    He either really doesn’t get that selling assets is worse than borrowing or it’s another misdirection. I’m betting on the latter – this government really, really wants to sell our assets to their rich mates and make us serfs.
    • marsman 16.1

      23 February 2012 at 2:45 pm

      Can English explain why it would be good for NZ to have our State Assets sold by NAct? NO he can’t!
      • Ianupnorth 16.1.1

        23 February 2012 at 3:52 pm

        Can bungling Bill even tie his own shoe laces? The bloke is a lemon
    • Uturn 16.2

      23 February 2012 at 2:54 pm

      Alternately, English could explain the pros and cons of selling state owned enterprises, in public, in detail, covering all the points the opposition have already made and placing them into context and also examine alternative choices to reducing debt that run contrary to his party’s philosophy.

      After all, it’s his job to persuade the public, not the Opposition’s to support his illusions.

      He seems to be saying, that since every person in NZ who opposes Asset sales cannot prove beyond any doubt that he is not witholding or concealing agendas or details, he is therefore telling the truth.

      English is a snakeoil salesman and the MSM are traitors because they know it and won’t call it.
      • muzza 16.2.1

        23 February 2012 at 3:29 pm

        “Referring to social welfare reform which will apply tougher work tests on sole parents and address youth employment, Mr English said the Government would move quickly to get reforms underway.

        He said it was staggering that around one in eight New Zealanders aged 18 to 64 was on a benefit and about half of them had spent at five of the past 10 years on a benefit.

        “That’s not only bad for the beneficiaries and their children, it’s a waste for society and taxpayers.”

        And what jobs might they all be going to then Balanced Bill?

        The class war is going to ramp up hard by the looks of it!
        • framu 16.2.1.1

          23 February 2012 at 3:53 pm

          ” around one in eight New Zealanders aged 18 to 64 was on a benefit”

          how does that even work when our unemployment rate is round 6-7%?

          what am i missing here?

          is it actually heaps worse than that – or more un-verified repeating by the media?
17. Bill 17

    23 February 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Open question.

    Japan had 54 nuclear reactors. Ten were ‘knocked out’ by the earthquake/tsunami last March. A further six that sat on active fault lines were shut down. The remainder, bar three that will shut down in April, were also shut down.

    And yet, in December there was a 6% surplus in electricity generating capacity in Japan.

    So the question is; If Japan, that was supposedly highly reliant on nuclear generation can lose it’s entire nuclear generating capacity and have a surplus of power available, then what’s the basis of arguments that would have us believe that we (globally) need nuclear power generation?
18. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 18

    23 February 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Why not start a Gosman thread tomorrow? He can there talk about anything that takes his fancy. And anyone who wants to interact with him can do so there. And there alone.
    • Vicky32 18.1

      23 February 2012 at 5:21 pm

      Why not start a Gosman thread tomorrow? He can there talk about anything that takes his fancy. And anyone who wants to interact with him can do so there. And there alone.

      Excellent idea. He’s such a bore!
      • grumpy 18.1.1

        23 February 2012 at 5:35 pm

        Dunno, might prove popular.
      • Te Reo Putake 18.1.2

        23 February 2012 at 5:54 pm

        The Daily Gos?
        • marty mars 18.1.2.1

          23 February 2012 at 10:46 pm

          daily floss maybe

          I’d like to know how gossies plan to put poor children into concentration camps so they die quicker is going. I’m sure his cowboyhat is too tight – he should take note of the great Dan’s hat – now that is class

          http://ponderosascenery.homestead.com/files/castbios/hoss.html
19. Te Reo Putake 19

    23 February 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Apologies if this has already been posted, but MUNZ have a really nice web button that would look real sweet on Teh Standard. Actually, on any worker friendly blog or website. Find it here.
20. james 111 20

    23 February 2012 at 8:10 pm

    Great to see the profit result for Ports of Tauranga today over 33 million for six months up 22% year on year,and higher than any analysts predicted.Really puts a spotlight on how badly POA is performing

    Just goes to show what a well run port with competitive Labor rates ( contractors can achieve). Cant wait to see the mess sorted out at POA.

    Get the port running the way it should be with the Labor costs much more competitive with their rival. Then all the rates payers of Auckland might get a decent return above 2.2% which is pathetic.
    • fender 20.1

      23 February 2012 at 9:51 pm

      Can’t wait to see you run crying to mummy when your paper-round pay gets slashed in half little jim.
21. logie97 21

    23 February 2012 at 8:44 pm

    There is a mantra with the neo Liberals that goes something like “private good, public bad”.

    So the cuts in the jobs of the “anonymous” are okay.
    However, the newly redundant public servants are human beings with lives, mortgages and usually loyal to the core for their country (as opposed to a lot of the Right’s supporters who salt their profits overseas).

    When is there going to be a voice in support of these people and their jobs? A great many will have dedicated a “lifetime” to their jobs – ACC/IRD/WINZ/HOUSING/CYPFS/RMA, (taken burdens from a day’s events home, and often shielded their ministers from embarrassment). They will have often implemented unpopular policy driven by their ministers and had to cop the flack from the public.

    Along comes a government of zealots and removes swathes of jobs without any regard for these individuals.

    And before the ministers claim that the jobs are a drain and unproductive, they might ask just what contribution they themselves make to the GDP.
22. prism 22

    23 February 2012 at 10:11 pm

    @logie97
    The NACTs aren’t just zealots, they are manipulators, liars and destroyers of the country and the services enjoyed by all NZ people.

    I have family that support NACT and they have achieved much and have a good income and nice life and and make a point that they are paying tax ans think anyone getting welfare is wasting their tax payments. There is no attempt to understand the conditions of the general lower income group, just hostility and disdain. But when one of their family falls into the lower income bracket. that person, being a favourite, receives kindness and thoughtfulness which is not shown to other ‘losers’.

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