Open mike 23/08/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 23rd, 2010 - 25 comments
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25 comments on “Open mike 23/08/2010 ”

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  1. Bored 1
    23 August 2010 at 6:32 am

    There comes a time when a common cause bridges the left right gap….heres a property developer who wants NZ owned farms to stay NZ owned farms (I am taking him at face value here)….keep an eye out for this and if hes for real in the words of Fred Dagg “get in behind”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10668183

    • vto 1.1
      23 August 2010 at 7:56 am

      You’ve confused me with your presumption Bored – are property developers left wing or right wing? He is on the correct track though.

      • Tiger Mountain 1.1.1
        23 August 2010 at 8:32 am

        100% of professional property developers I have encountered in the last several decades were certainly tories, and under the thumb of finance captial, which places them in the right wing of the political spectrum. Some add token ‘green’ aspects to their projects, but developers are bloody right wingers when it comes down to it.

        • vto 1.1.1.1
          23 August 2010 at 8:45 am

          ha ha true true. I just love broad sweeping generalisations on this site that’s all. Like the post the other day bemoaning people having a go at teachers on the basis of broad sweeping generalisations.

      • Bored 1.1.2
        23 August 2010 at 9:02 am

        You have a point VTO, I own / run companies which in Marxian speak makes me “bourgeois”, a creature of the right no less. Could not ever vote with the right ever ever ever….sort of labelling schizophrenia. So I am just generalising. Please bear with my lack of precision and accuracy, even my prejudices. Its just that every property developer I have ever met / spoken to has been a right winger.

    • The Chairman 1.2
      23 August 2010 at 8:11 am

      Despite Key’s concerns of us becoming tenants in our own land, it looks like the softening for the tightening of our overseas investment rules has already begun.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10667055

    • The Chairman 1.3
      23 August 2010 at 11:07 am

      Luxury properties including farmland and homes are being sold to wealthy foreign investors without being available to New Zealand buyers.
      More here: http://tinyurl.com/25komaj

  2. vto 2
    23 August 2010 at 8:00 am

    I see this govt has yet again confirmed that the environment is last on their list with Kate Wilkinson turning down the application to place 12% of Akaroa Harbour in a marine reserve. Reason – it would interfere with recreational fishing. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ad infinitum… what a joke.

    Marine reserves increase recreational fishing opportunities not decrease them. What a dope.

    Maybe she would like to terminate the Goat Island Marine Reserve, following her own dumb logic.

    Bloody thick-headed idiot is Kate Wilkinson.

    • Lats 2.1
      23 August 2010 at 3:12 pm

      I’m guessing Kate Wilkinson has never tried fishing in Akaroa harbour. It is virtually bereft of fish already. Denuded even!

      From memory, just north of Akaroa heads is an entire bay set aside as a reserve already. Perhaps a better move to increase fish stocks would be to extend this area into a second bay.

  3. just saying 3
    23 August 2010 at 9:03 am

    http://liberation.typepad.com/ http://liberation.typepad.com/

    Bryce Edwards above, has a four part series on ‘Inequality in New Zealand’ which I think is worth a look. Thanks to the poster that put me onto his site.

    Always find him interesting and very reader-friendly – I’m looking forward to the upcoming part 4 “The Resurgence of Issues of economic inequality”.

    One thing that caught my eye:

    “The fact is that fewer people now associate the left with the struggle for economic equality. I talk to students, and I have been particularly interested to talk to first and second year students to find out what they know of as the left and what they associate with left politics. Most do not have any idea what it means…..”

    That’s been my experience of the post-rogernomics generations. Young people are usually at the forefront of ‘idealistic’, radical movements, but most younger people, (and too many older ones) have no idea that life could exist outside a dog-eat-dog neocon world, that effective communities could be organised to be fairer and kinder. Many see the awful effects on the poor and the powerless but its like; “that’s terrible but what can you do?” For the many who’ve never been exposed to left wing economic discourse, this darwinian political landscape is just the way things are the way gravity is. Puddleglum and Bill were talking about this much more eloquently last night.

    The thing is, if economic inequality is as important to the left political parties as I hope it is, how can they effectively advocate and campaign on policies that would be radical enough to actually make a difference, if the very idea of any greater degree of social justice being sustainable, seems to most about as realistic as life on another planet?

    Don’t know the answer, all I can think of is getting more discourse ‘out there’. It can be discouraging to be a minority voice, but what else can we do?

    • prism 3.1
      23 August 2010 at 10:58 am

      I think that the individualistic and aspirational attitude now dominates. The social achievements of the past are taken for granted and now more than ever the NZ public thoughts trend to ‘What’s in it for me’ when viewing policy. Policies are introduced as a reaction to obvious failures in policy for society, but usually just deal with the results. Pro-activity and concern to work for a better society with the often small changes needed if introduced promptly, is largely absent.

      It’s noticeable amongst retired people now, which includes me, that most are uninterested in supporting the economy or young working people, except for their own families. The income stream for the retired is taken for granted and the reciprocal encouragement and concern for the youthful earners is weak. If they had any sense they would be agitating for government to return to allocating a monetary value to voluntary work. Otherwise many poor old people might be forced to work till they drop, and never reach the high-jump bar that retirement age could become.

      Also the need for a policy on body part replacements especially heart bypasses for the elderly over a certain age. It is unreasonable that the health budget is so strained that children don’t get full care, and middle-aged people can’t get elective surgery because patient x over 75 wants another life-extending operation. This is another example of the ‘What’s in it for me” approach with the individuals who can make the most emotional case and being a voting bloc and so having the ear of government, getting assistance

      • Bored 3.1.1
        23 August 2010 at 2:05 pm

        Prism, for a panacea have a read of Tony Judt “Ill fares the land”. He has all of the symptoms you describe BUT he also suggests a cure to the detachment of “individualism” and “aspiration”. If you cant lay your hands on a copy say so and I will send mine (not sure how, might have to mail to the Standard).

      • ZB 3.1.2
        23 August 2010 at 3:10 pm

        National raised GST, this immediately harmed the retired whose saving would have brought $100 worth of goods before the introduction of GST hike, now requires $102.13?

        So pensioners got hit pretty roughly by interest rates at low levels, financial companies collapsing,
        and now GST hikes. So much so Peters is marching right into Keys home electorate. Peters who
        likes to help the retired!

        As for the young paying for the old health care, what? This is a private healthcare system, all the young
        need to do is switch to new health providers that don’t have a large number of pensioners on the books.
        Anyone dopey enough to be against national health cover desires the consequences. Whose up for
        starting a private health fund right now? Its not age discrimination if you couldn’t join theirs fifty years
        ago so why should they join ours now! Sorry probably is but its all notional at the moment.

    • Olwyn 3.2
      23 August 2010 at 4:41 pm

      One way might be an alternative set of aspirations, that do not focus on individual consumers, but on the sort of country we would like to live in.

      It is sort of like the notion of “catching up with Australia” – if it was a clear aspiration, which it is not, and if it included the population as whole, which it does not, one could conceivably test policy against it: does x contribute to our central aim, if it does not, is it at least consistent with our aim, etc. Suppose we had an aspiration toward everyone receiving a living wage, everyone having stability of dwelling, and every child growing up here having access to the means for building a life. Obviously, we could not leap to that point by decree, any more than Key could make us equal to Australia with the stoke of a pen, but it would give us a criterion for judging other actions and policies. To start with, we would need savings, so that we were not driven by imposed necessities, we would need productive enterprises that employ and train people, markets for our products, etc, but all these things would be understood in relation to a shared purpose. What is odd is how wildly luxurious the short, modest list I have made looks against the present background.

  4. swimmer 4
    23 August 2010 at 9:30 am

    We can keep arguing til the cows come home, but we can’t have foreigners milking our natural resources for their own gain and leaving NZ with a curdled taste its mouth 🙁

  5. comedy 5
    23 August 2010 at 1:26 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10668231

    Fascinating – Helium on its way to running out on planet earth

    • Lanthanide 5.1
      23 August 2010 at 2:16 pm

      I’ve seen that the way to avoid near-term catastrophe is to allow the price of helium to be set by the market, essentially pushing prices up by 4x overnight, but it’s better to do that now than to let helium go up 10-20x in a few years time.

      • comedy 5.1.1
        23 August 2010 at 2:40 pm

        MMM You’d think, amazingly short term thinking with that US law in 1996 being passed – very odd but that’s politicians for you.

  6. Jilly Bee 6
    23 August 2010 at 8:00 pm

    I have just read the item on Radio New Zealand’s website – ‘New Zealand leader contacts Abbott’. John Key said he hadn’t contacted Julia Gillard because he didn’t have her phone number, however he would try to contact Ms Gillard on Monday. Yeah Right.

    • felix 6.1
      23 August 2010 at 11:22 pm

      That’s odd.

      Last time Key did anything news-worthy was when he phoned Julia Gillard to congratulate her wasn’t it?

      • felix 6.1.1
        24 August 2010 at 1:35 am

        Key on Sunday:

        Yeah it had been my intention last night to ring the successful leader and obviously to ring the commiserating party…*

        Which would be a bit of tricky without both of the phone numbers, I reckon.

        WTF is wrong with this douchebag? It’s like every time he opens his mouth the most ridiculous impossible bullshit pours out and we’re supposed to pretend it isn’t happening. I think he’s been doing it so long he isn’t even aware that he’s lying.

        *translated to the nearest possible English.

        • The Voice of Reason 6.1.1.1
          24 August 2010 at 7:38 am

          It’s not like he even spoke to Abbott anyway, just left a voice message. Which probably made no sense to the mad monk given the accent and the mangled English.

          Er gudday Tony, uts Johnkey here, from uh, Crosby/Textuhs Auckland branch. Just letting youse guys know I’m uspirationalising for you, cobber. Gus a call when yuh know whether your un or out of the big job, eh. Akchully, if your out, don’t bother, no time for losers as er, Coldplay say. Maybe thuts ACDC but you you know what I mean. See ya!

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