Open Mike 23/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 23rd, 2017 - 289 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). And as this election day, the comments will be fully moderated as the Electoral Act limits what you can say as well.

Step up to the mike …

289 comments on “Open Mike 23/09/2017 ”

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  1. lprent 1
    23 September 2017 at 6:45 am

    See http://www.elections.org.nz/parties-candidates/all-participants/social-media

    On election day (from midnight on 22 September until 7pm on 23 September) posting or sharing any statement that is likely to, or intended to, influence which candidate or party a person should, or should not, vote for is prohibited. The election day rules make no exemption for the expression of personal political views online. Paid online election advertising is prohibited on election day.

    Election advertising does not have to be removed from social media so long as:

    * the material was published before election day
    * the material is only made available to people who voluntarily access it, and
    * no advertisements promoting the page or site are published on election day.

    It is fine to remind people to get out to vote or that you’ve just voted. For example, filters or frames saying you have voted can be used on social media on election day.

    However, care should be taken not to post anything that encourages voters to vote, or not to vote, for a particular candidate or party.

    Posts on social media that are not connected in any way with the election can of course be posted on election day. We recommend you do not use profile pictures or frames (after midnight on 22 September) that support a candidate or party to avoid the risk of committing an offence if you post using the picture or frame on election day.

    Posting a photograph of a completed ballot paper online on election day could breach the election day rules because of the prohibition under section 197 of the Electoral Act on publishing a statement that is likely to influence how another voter should vote.

    The Commission does not actively monitor conduct on social media during the run up to the election or on election day, but we will respond if there are complaints.

    lprent: The electoral commission doesn’t monitor it – but we do. Since we don’t like extra work if we see anything that we view as being a deliberate transgression we are most likely to just give a long ban. You have been warned.

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    23 September 2017 at 6:55 am

    I’m spending the day digging up apple trees from our nursery and that’ll be difficult to do with all my fingers and toes crossed. 🙂

  3. Ross 3
    23 September 2017 at 7:24 am

    The rules around campaigning on election day are somewhat anachronistic.

    Why not allow campaigning on election day? Almost a million voters in this election voted before today. They did so while campaigning was going on. Besides, if voters are genuinely unsure of who they are going to opt for, there is any amount of info online which they can access.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.1
      23 September 2017 at 7:34 am

      I suppose they are anachronistic, but it is not a big imposition and potentially saves harrassment and coercion at the ballot booth?

      I remember being in Chile during an election – the sale of alcohol was banned on election day, presumably so people make sober choices….

    • lprent 3.2
      23 September 2017 at 7:37 am

      We haven’t see friday’s figures yet. I am picking an eventual total close to 1.3 million out of a 3.2 million eligible.

      Imagine 2 million voters going to vote with cynical ploys all over the place. The optimal course for some political strategists would be to encourage their people to vote early, and then to cause other voters to throw up their hands in horror and not vote at all.

      Which effectively is what happens in the US with its low low turnouts and its election day coverage. Just look at the effects of exit polling.

      Of course there because the states set the electoral boundaries and put in the polling booths what you also see is the same cynical politicking causing kilometre length queues for a few polling booths open in the areas where the states ruling party doesn’t want people to vote.

      I’d go the other way. I’d ban the release of polls during the advance voting period and do the election day limitations 2-3 days before election day to allow everyone some time to have a think without more political distractions.

      But generally, archaic as it is, I prefer our system. The alternatives all look a lot worse.

      • ianmac 3.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 9:15 am

        Yes ban polling for a month before the election.
        Look what happened when the Round the World yacht race became high tech. We knew to within a metre exactly where each boat was and the excitement was crushed.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 10:49 am

          Yes ban polling for a month before the election.

          During the entire six week electioneering period.

          Or are you saying that we should ban polling from a month before the electioneering period begins?

          • tracey 3.2.1.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 3:31 pm

            I say the entire election period. Force the media to find other ways to get ratings 😉

            • Incognito 3.2.1.1.1.1
              23 September 2017 at 3:43 pm

              Problem is there will always be market research polling some of which may ‘leak’ into the public domain. To level the playing field and avoid people with hidden agendas playing ‘silly games’ I’d make it at as open & transparent as possible and have a neutral agency (à la Treasury) doing the polling.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                23 September 2017 at 5:31 pm

                I tend to the view that the polling is fine – but it shouldn’t be published. That would leave only the political parties doing it because they’d be the only ones with an interest.

                If it’s not published then people have to think about what they agree with rather than just going with what is the most popular.

    • Jerko 3.3
      23 September 2017 at 12:59 pm

      I might be forced to open up the “Dog Point” Sav Blanc. In NZ it’s around $25. Over here in Ca it’s $14. Still expensive compared to “Ti Point” from Cosco for $7. Hopefully we won’t have to go for the hard stuff. Cheers team!

  4. UncookedSelachimorpha 4
    23 September 2017 at 7:31 am

    The trend towards advance voting has been a major feature this election:

    http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2017-general-election/advance-voting-statistics

    Hopefully it correlates with increased total participation.

  5. marty mars 5
    23 September 2017 at 7:49 am

    I get one weekend off work a month and this is it yay. Going to read a sci fi book today – hard sci fi by L.E.Modesitt, Jr. Not convinced yet but seems readable.

    The contrasts add the flavour. At work we say a synthesis of view cannot occur without polarisations. You say black I say white from that we can get grey. Anyway some random musings for a Saturday.

    • lprent 5.1
      23 September 2017 at 7:57 am

      Man – that is a hard work regime. Have a good laze…

      I had been working particularly hard on the project at work up until 2 weeks ago when we gave to it testing and I went on 2 weeks ‘holiday’ to be there for The Standard during election time.

      Before that it was working through weekends before the tagged beta release. But even then I tried to reserve at least having late mornings on the weekend.

      Going to read a sci fi book today – hard sci fi by L.E.Modesitt, Jr. Not convinced yet but seems readable.

      Let me know if it is ok. Not going back to work until tuesday. I can buy it, remove the DRM and epub it and stash it into calibre for a read before I go back to work.

      • tc 5.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 8:20 am

        Yes please always keen to hear of a good sci fi read.

        Iain Banks went too early as I felt his last few culture novel were perfectly balanced, he seemed to have it down pat then cancer took him from us.

      • Ed1 5.1.2
        23 September 2017 at 4:29 pm

        I enjoyed most of the L E Modesitt Jr books – many are suitable for young adults, but still quite readable by adults. A lot of those books are available in electronic form (or from public libraries). I have become irritiated with the number of books from Amazon that have DRM – I have not yet found a way to remove it so that I can put those books in my Calibre library – any recommendations?

        • lprent 5.1.2.1
          23 September 2017 at 4:35 pm

          I have used a variety of techniques. I usually just google research before I need to do one and usually have to get old software and patch it. Techniques usually only last a few years.

          Recently I have mostly brought through baen and tor just so I don’the have to put up with the crap. But I always remove drm because it is a real pain when you can’t reread the book a decade later – some of my old reference books are like that.

    • tracey 5.2
      23 September 2017 at 8:14 am

      Hope you get some good relaxin in MM

    • ianmac 5.3
      23 September 2017 at 9:17 am

      marty do you get days off during the week?

      • marty mars 5.3.1
        23 September 2017 at 10:02 am

        Yeah I do nightshift and weekend mostly. That way I can look after the 2.5 year old while my love does her work. Does have advantages but I’m on a pretty low hourly rate so need lots of hours.

    • Woody 5.4
      23 September 2017 at 12:28 pm

      I recommend “The three body problem”
      By Cixin Liu
      It’s the most exciting SF I’ve read in years it’s part of a trilogy
      The dark forest and Death’s end
      The translation is by Ken Liu for the first two and is excellent. A Chinese colleague of mine reckons the translation is very good.

  6. AsleepWhileWalking 6
    23 September 2017 at 7:53 am

    The boarding house family think the next call they get from MSD will be an offer of social housing, when it is much more likely the next call will be to ask if their situation has changed. I’m guessing at least six months (and only because its in the media). A year + more likely.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/340031/end-in-sight-for-boarding-house-family

  7. bwaghorn 7
    23 September 2017 at 7:56 am

    [deleted]

    [lprent: Read the election day guidelines in this post. Or do you want to get kicked off the site for 6 months? This is your one warning. Why am I feeling benevolent towards people this morning. Not enough coffee? ]

  8. Ross 8
    23 September 2017 at 7:57 am

    Imagine 2 million voters going to vote with cynical ploys all over the place.

    Voters have already been subject to such ploys and if they look online those ploys are still present! I’d rather see a law that disqualifies people from voting if they haven’t made up their mind by election day. 🙂 If a voter is sucked in by a cynical ploy on election day, they really shouldn’t be voting.

    I’d ban the release of polls during the advance voting period

    I agree. I’d like to see polling banned throughout the entire period of voting.

    • Sanctuary 8.1
      23 September 2017 at 11:47 am

      I have been outaged at the use of polling to boost the ratings of the TV stations showing the leader’s debates and manipulate the debate agendas. This needs to be controlled, by micro-managing legislation (the sort of detailed rules you reserve for naughty children) if necessary.

      Weather is good – lovely in fact – here in Auckland, and I believe i am allowed to say voting was very heavy this morning here in the West Auckland polling places i drove past.

  9. millsy 9
    23 September 2017 at 8:06 am

    It’s a nice day for it. Sunny skies, a heatwave from Australia, and daylight saving starts this weekend. It’s been a long wet winter, but finally, the sun comes out.

    I think NZ and Australia are probably the only countries in the world that run elections on a Saturday, most European nation’s do it on Sundays, the UK on a Thursday and the US on a Tuesday.

    • Bearded Git 9.1
      23 September 2017 at 8:50 am

      Odd this year that Germany and NZ are having elections using exactly the same system on consecutive days.

      • swordfish 9.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 11:10 am

        Same in 2005

        We left for the UK and Europe before Early Voting opened and didn’t return until a week after 05 Election Day, completely oblivious to that whole saga. During the final week of the Election, we enjoyed the somewhat surreal experience of traveling through Germany, watching the televised German Party Leaders’ Debates, while having little real idea of what was going down back home. Where Helen Clark should have been there was Angela Merkel, while Gerhard Schröder filled-in as a kind of Teutonic Don Brash.

        Ultimately, we got a little bored by it all and wisely turned over to an absolute stunner of a Bundesliga match between Bayern Munich and, from memory, Werder Bremen, … (but don’t quote me on that ! Definitely Bayern but can’t entirely rule out their opponents being Eintracht Frankfurt, Darmstadt 98 or quite possibly the sublime Borussia Mönchengladbach.)

        • greywarshark 9.1.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 5:28 pm

          The names faxinate on their own especially the last one. Would a German immigrant put that on their holiday house?

    • jcuknz 9.2
      23 September 2017 at 2:47 pm

      millsy … Thanks for reminding me about NZST ….I bought a electric clock a year or two or three ago and couldn’t make it tell the right time until my clever son visited. He had problems and I found it was six minutes plus fast when he left and instead of sleeping in my bunk I got my regular bed back. [the bunk is too short for him 🙂 ].
      Anyway I am not game to try and adjust it so each winter I have to subtract and hour and six minutes …. so I welcome summer and it is only six minutes out 🙂

      • greywarshark 9.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 5:32 pm

        Reminds me of Groucho Marx commenting on things to make with instructions that a child of five could do. Says he “Send me a child of five!”

  10. millsy 10
    23 September 2017 at 8:11 am

    Doesn’t CV’s ban expire tonight? Prentice after all ruled his ban was to be until after the election. Would be good to have him back, if he wants to come back that is. Following his Twitter feed isn’t the same.

    • lprent 10.1
      23 September 2017 at 8:16 am

      One month after the election – which was the standard ban for anyone causing too much moderator work. There are a lot of people due for release on the 23rd of October.

      It was a very effective ban because the level of moderator work went way down after it was instituted in exasperation after some very long and irritating moderating sessions by some of us. People either stopped gaming the system or they had a jump forward in time.

  11. tracey 11
    23 September 2017 at 8:14 am

    I am assuming if something is on stuff or the herald it is ok to post?

    This article is about the increase in workers without contracts and employers unilaterally changing terms.

    Just yesterday a person I know approached me for help after they gave their 4 weeks notice to resign. The boss rang her on her day off and unexpectedly and said, we want you to finish today. Friend said, what about remuneration. Boss said, we are bringing your end date forward. Friend said oh.

    We sent off an email referring employer to the relevant clause of the collective agreement. Line manager sent an email later stating ” as per your agreement on the phone” . WTF!

    SENT a second email.even clearer. For the record the employer is in social services and although an NGO gets funding from Ministry.

    Slippery slope is here. Not everyone has a friend who used to practice law who can support them.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/97098238/workers-without-employment-contracts-on-the-rise-citizens-advice-bureau-warn

    • Eco maori 11.1
      23 September 2017 at 8:49 am

      We need strong unions to protect our innocence and vulnerable workers
      Big upps Tracey

    • weka 11.2
      23 September 2017 at 8:54 am

      Bastards. There’s no way that wasn’t utterly intentional.

      I”m assuming you can’t give away statutory rights in a phone call? So even if she had agreed to it, it still the responsibility of the employer to do right by the law?

      • tracey 11.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 9:13 am

        I would think it would fail procedurally weka. If she had agreed she wasnt told she coukd get independent advice.

        After the election I have a post about Unions, contracts, employers and examples of how the Union/Company relationship can thrive.

        We have too much history of acrimonious adversarial in the relationship. The surge of accomodation costs versus rise in real wages is, imo, in part due to the deliberate degradation of unions through legislated and non legislated ( offering higher wage to non union joiners) practices.

        Like farmer versus townie a deliberate strategy to pit people against each other.

        • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 11:11 am

          Like farmer versus townie a deliberate strategy to pit people against each other.

          And when we get that is when society fragments and collapses. A few people would get rich from it though as they manage to reduce wages below sustainable levels. Exactlt as we’ve been seeing for the last few decades of neo-liberalism.

    • eco maori 11.3
      23 September 2017 at 8:55 am

      We need strong unions to protect our vulnerable and innocent workers
      Big upps Tracey

    • Draco T Bastard 11.4
      23 September 2017 at 11:00 am

      This article is about the increase in workers without contracts and employers unilaterally changing terms.

      IIRC, isn’t it now illegal not to have a contract?

      One of my nephews was complaining about it. After all, he’d never had a contract and he was alright. I did point out a few times when he would have been better off with a contract.

      • tracey 11.4.1
        23 September 2017 at 12:01 pm

        Yes it is illegal. Paying more to not be in the union used to be illegal. But these are vulnerable workers.

        Kiwifruit growers showed over 50 % without contracts and under minimum wage. This was a Ministry study. Wet. Bus. Ticket.

        Imagine this.

        You get caught without a signed contract, employer pays you a bonus of 12 weeks salary.

        You pay under minimum wage you pay the worker 3 x minimum wage when caught and a fine payable to workers union.

        • Rosemary McDonald 11.4.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 12:19 pm

          Funny, isn’t it ,that those industries we are repeatedly told are the economic backbone of NZ seem to attract a high number of articles about exploitative employment practices?

          No time right now to search for links…though googling Helen Kelly might be a start.

          I’m thinking about Helen today.

          • tracey 11.4.1.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 1:05 pm

            It is not that kiwis wont do the work it is that migrants on work visas will do it for no contract and less than minimum wage… and then factor in what they are charged for “board”

  12. The decrypter 12
    23 September 2017 at 8:45 am

    My tory neighbours are having a victory barbeque with their mates after golf and have invited me to attend on punkawalla duties.

    • lprent 12.1
      23 September 2017 at 8:48 am

      They are being optimistic. Token peon duties?

      • The decrypter 12.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 9:03 am

        no– just opened their gate for them and apparently it is punkawallah,–oh!! it has an H on it, she said {farmers daughter}–as if I was stupid.

    • Bearded Git 12.2
      23 September 2017 at 8:54 am

      I saw a guy who did not look like a Left-leaning voter leaving the off-licence last night with a very expensive bottle of whisky so I said to him “got that to toast Prime Minister Jacinda tomorrow?”……..the look on his face was priceless.

    • lurgee 12.3
      23 September 2017 at 8:54 am

      [deleted] The revolution has to start somewhere, comrade.

      [lprent: I know it is ‘funny’. However I am absolutely certain that at the very least that would come under section 310 of the Crimes Act. ]

      • lurgee 12.3.1
        23 September 2017 at 9:54 am

        I don’t think we’d reached the stage of conspiracy.

        It was more me inciting it.

        Eh, what terrible, politically correct times we live in, where we can’t [self censored] anymore.

        • lprent 12.3.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 10:01 am

          Yep. Especially in public glare and on election day when a lot of eyes are looking.

          Face it – I just have a jaundiced view of certain kinds of humour when I am the one who might have to waste time trying to explain police or the courts.

          But the Crimes Act has been there since 1961, and neither section has been amended. So it could just be that you have been violation g the law for a long time.

    • millsy 12.4
      23 September 2017 at 9:12 am

      You should set up a stereo system right out side to blast “The Internationale” at full volume.

    • tracey 12.5
      23 September 2017 at 9:14 am

      [deleted]

      [lprent: Section 310 + don’t let r0b see comments like that. ]

  13. weka 13
    23 September 2017 at 8:56 am

    Good weather for voting. Not raining but not so sunny that people will forget about it and go do something else.

    • DH 13.1
      23 September 2017 at 9:42 am

      I like voting day and dislike voting. I think those who vote early miss out on the best part of democracy which is the view of people from all walks of life striding purposely to the voting booth. On this one day we’re the ones in charge and the politicians know it and hate it.

      • weka 13.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 9:59 am

        I’m traditional too. But there were lots of stories this week about people having to queue to do an advance vote.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.2
        23 September 2017 at 11:15 am

        I think those who vote early miss out on the best part of democracy which is the view of people from all walks of life striding purposely to the voting booth.

        Can’t say that I’ve ever seen that – except the other day when I voted early.

        • ianmac 13.1.2.1
          23 September 2017 at 1:53 pm

          My wife and I marched into the local school hall today and the birds were singing and the sun is shining on a cloudless windless day and a steady stream of voter walking either in or out like ants on a trail.
          Except for a big BMW where they drove up the 80metre driveway. People were cheerful and nodded or said gidday.
          A great day for democracy.

      • Carolyn_nth 13.1.3
        23 September 2017 at 5:45 pm

        I would like to have voted today, but was working – at quite a journey from my home, and started work at 9am. So it was just easier to vote yesterday when I wasn’t working. Glad I was busy, so didn’t think much about elections.

  14. lurgee 14
    23 September 2017 at 8:58 am

    What will we be drinking while you watch the election?

    Mrs Lurgee made the tactical error of asking me if I had enough booze to get through it, which I took as implicit permission to buy more.

    So I’ll be toasting my preferred result with Bruichladdich’s ‘Classic Laddie,’ or drowning my sorrows in the same, if the result goes the other way.

    (Not sure how explicit we’re allowed to be about desired results in these straitened times. Roll on 7pm!)

    • lprent 14.1
      23 September 2017 at 9:01 am

      Judiciously sipping Tullamore Dew. Unfortunately I will need to remain moderately sober for much of the evening.

    • tracey 14.2
      23 September 2017 at 9:16 am

      LOL.

      I am avoiding constant coverage or my 26 year old relationship will end. I have negotiated flicking occassionally to Freeview 50.

    • Glenn 14.3
      23 September 2017 at 9:30 am

      Tea tonight.
      Start off with a pot of Nerada (a lovely Aussie tea from the Atherton Tablelands) followed later by Bell Kenya Bold a strong builders tea.
      Woke up a few mornings ago feeling like death warmed up. Came right by next day but somehow it has left me with no desire for alcohol. Quite strange.

      However if the left win (will we know tonight anyway?) I have a bottle of vintage port I may just open to toast the new PM.

      • weka 14.3.1
        23 September 2017 at 10:03 am

        We might know or we might not. If one potential coalition is a clear few points ahead then we should have a good idea. But advanced votes where people also enrolled at the same time will be counted along with the specials and that won’t be available until the 7th of Oct. So if it’s close we will have to wait. The Greens have been known to pick up an extra MP from the specials for instance. How that affects proportionality depends on the numbers of the other parties too (afaik).

        EC are updating their website at 2pm on advance voting stats.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.4
      23 September 2017 at 11:17 am

      Looks like I’m going to be sober due to having a few too many last week 🙁

    • gsays 14.5
      23 September 2017 at 4:29 pm

      Hi lurgee, any chance of a five word flavour review of bruichladdich?
      I am a fan of Bowmore, Talisker, Laphroaig.

  15. JustPassingThrough 15
    23 September 2017 at 9:11 am

    A tiny bit of advice that (hopefully) I’m sure the mods will agree with, if I may.

    Don’t be a smart-ass and say things like “I’m feeling blue today” or “I think I’ll wear a nice red top today”. Its obvious what you’re trying to do and you’re still in breach.

    • lprent 15.1
      23 September 2017 at 9:19 am

      They are things that can be complained about. However they are not things that the Electoral Commission are liable to act upon. I am liable to start getting pretty irritated with nuisances wasting my time with spurious complaints of dubious legal value.

      Besides I really don’t like people playing silly games on site, so I tend to ‘educate’ people playing games with my time or any moderators time. Since I tend towards excess when I feel the need to make an effort, I don’t think anyone but a fool is liable play games. It is safer just being clear.

    • lprent 15.2
      23 September 2017 at 11:29 am

      Huh! I just had a read at kiwiblog over a late breakfast. I can see where you got this strange ideas that colours were part of electoral law.

      The legal moron set are out in full force over at kiwiblog this morning demonstrating that they can’t read even the simplest guidelines without inventing a ‘politically correct’ conspiracy. FFS don’t that ever see the coloured rosettes worn by party observers right next to the electoral clerks in the polling booths? So long as they don’t display the party logos it is ok.

      Next thing the dimwits at the sewer in kiwiblog will be bemoaning that lightbulbs are more efficient and probably smarter than they are (love modern multi-phase LEDs) and that most women can run rings around brain-dead males. Kiwiblog is full of classic dickheads who can’t look in a mirror without wondering who that ugly critter is.

      Even this now-famous monkey with a royalty claim has more self-awareness than those degraded simians.

      • Rosemary McDonald 15.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 11:38 am

        Hah! I briefly visited with Farrar’s Ferals and noticed the same thing. Usual standard of moderation (i.e. none) in play.

        I hope A Certain Someone likes being bit on the bum. 🙂

        • lprent 15.2.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 11:40 am

          From what I saw before getting bored with the unthinking repetition, they appear to be keeping well within the act. However like small spoilt children it is clear they have problems with the concept of self-restraint. They also seem to spend an inordinate amount of time down ticking and up-ticking others comments and complaining about happening.

          • Rosemary McDonald 15.2.1.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 11:50 am

            The last couple of times I’ve wandered over there Firefox has crashed on my cheapy Linux driven laptop. It’s a conspiracy I tells ya, a conspiracy. 🙂

            • lprent 15.2.1.1.1.1
              23 September 2017 at 11:56 am

              Try chrome. I find Firefox is a bit too flakey and my up to the minute ryzen based overspecced linux workstation seems to reboot when I have firefox runningredients for too long. The log says that I get issues with the rx 480 graphics card.

              • ianmac …
                23 September 2017 at 2:00 pm

                After years with Firefox I switched to Chrome last week because Firefox seemed to frequently hang and wait. Chrome good though I have to put my favourites up one by one.
                Not sure how I will manage if my 6 year old Mac dies.

                • lprent …
                  23 September 2017 at 2:20 pm

                  Lyn just installed a 1 terabyte samsung evo 850 sdd in her 2011 Mac replacing the 750 gigabyte harddrive. Gave it a new lease of life because it was getting way to freaking slow. It increased the speed from a user perspective of about tenfold.

                  The upgrade required a full backup on time machine, and then on super-duper for safety. 10 screws with a teeny Phillips to remove the back cover. 4 Phillips on the harddisk holder. Then take the hard disk out and off the connector. Then you need a star mini screwdriver to change the hatd disk lugs over to the sSD.

                  Put everything back and boot off the time machine and reinstall.

                  It forgets most of your passwords unless you have everything stored in the cloud.

                  Cheaper than a new Mac. Cost from pbtech for the sSD is about $550.

      • tracey 15.2.2
        23 September 2017 at 12:03 pm

        Prostate ads on buses extolling “are you blue”, on election day, has Farrar pointed out that “conspiracy”?

  16. Exkiwiforces 16
    23 September 2017 at 9:22 am

    I’ve got bush firefighting training all this weekend, but ABC News 24 starts it NZ election coverage at 5pm AEST. Not sure to what I’ll be drinking ATM either some great Northern’s, black label apple cider or a single malt whiskey. Anyway have a great day it’s been chatting here once again.

  17. tracey 17
    23 September 2017 at 9:26 am

    Marshmellow test shows todays youngsters can delay gratification longer than the rest of us. Another reason to stop imposing the world as it was 40 years ago for us, on them.

    https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/09/20/children-of-today-are-better-at-delaying-gratification-than-previous-generations/#more-30244

    • weka 17.1
      23 September 2017 at 10:07 am

      hmm, but I would guess taking my nieces and nephews smart phones away from them would cause more angst than taking them away from their grandparents (esp as the olds don’t have smart phones 😆 ).

      Would be interesting to see the demographics on the marshmallow test (ethnicity, nationality, gender).

      • Editractor 17.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 11:52 am

        The trick is, you have to take the smart phones away from everyone at the same time – No business, no boozing, no casual sex: when Togo turned off the internet – https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/sep/21/no-business-no-boozing-no-casual-sex-when-togo-turned-off-the-internet

      • greywarshark 17.1.2
        23 September 2017 at 12:02 pm

        I have always been interested in the marshmallow test.

        The findings of these later psychological seem to contain opinionated points in a presumptive way.

        Does the apparent improvement in children’s powers of self-control bode well for the future, for instance in terms of reduced criminality and addiction? Protzko thinks not, speculating that it is probably one’s ability relative to others, rather than one’s absolute ability, that is relevant to future behaviour – the lowest performers will remain at risk, he suggests. “These [unhealthy and dangerous] behaviours have been with humans for thousands of years, and will be with us for thousands more,” he predicts.

        The causes and consequences of the apparent increase in children’s powers of self-restraint over time remain to be uncovered by future research. For now, Protzko says the data show that “Contrary to historical and present complaints, kids these days appear to be better than we were. A supposed modern culture of instant gratification has not stemmed the march of improvement.”

        The point of the test was always to check children’s behaviours against their peers. It can’t be regarded as giving ideas about tendencies to criminality surely. Though it would show tendency to be more impulsive.

        And discussing human behaviours in that wise manner of extending back thousands of years (unproved, unknown) to thousands of years in the future, just sounds pompous to me.

        But it remains a fertile field for expenditure of research moneys. Perhaps they should now start on how children’s attention can be held for longer than the 10-second sound bite or whether that is a myth too.

    • Andrea 17.2
      23 September 2017 at 9:24 pm

      “Marshmellow” – sounds very Massachusetts…:-)

  18. Anne 18
    23 September 2017 at 9:38 am

    Up to you lprent;

    This comment is related to voting but don’t think it breaks any rules.

    When casting my vote in my electorate the other day I noted that the name and party of the present incumbent was at the top of the list. There was a space between that ‘name and party’ and then the rest of the candidates and parties were listed with no spaces in between. Assuming this is normal practice in all electorates, it puts the current MP – whatever party he/she may represent – in a highly favourable position.
    It seems to me that is unfair to all the other candidates – and their party denominations.

    The Electoral Commission spends a lot of time checking on other people. Perhaps someone needs to check on them in due course.

    • lprent 18.1
      23 September 2017 at 9:46 am

      Fro memory, the voting papers have candidates and/or parties in random order and I believe that they have their party next to them. If there is no candidate for a party, then there will be a blank line in the candidates.

      There is really no other way of doing it that has any fairness. This means that voters with vote the top attributes even out.

      • Anne 18.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 11:08 am

        Not what I’m referring to.

        In my electorate:

        At the top of the voting paper is the Party logo of the present incumbent plus their name followed by their Party’s name.

        Then there is a full line space so that the current MP’s logo/ name/party stands apart from the rest.

        Then the list of other candidates in random order with NO line space in between.

        That is giving undue priority to whoever is the current MP. How do they justify doing that?

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 18.1.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 12:00 pm

          Anne, that sounds odd and very irregular – and worth a complaint to the electoral commission if correct. The paper should look like this:

          http://www.elections.org.nz/voters/voting-election/using-your-voting-paper

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 18.1.1.2
          23 September 2017 at 12:02 pm

          Here is the link to make a comment or complaint to the electoral commission:

          http://www.elections.org.nz/contact-electoral-commission

        • Graeme 18.1.1.3
          23 September 2017 at 1:57 pm

          Do you have an independent candidate in your electorate? There’s one in mine and it did the same thing. There was one line above the independent on the paper I got, I think it was Act, then the independent, with the party line blank, then the rest.

          The incumbent being on top would be purely random.

          • Anne 18.1.1.3.1
            23 September 2017 at 3:06 pm

            Correct Graeme.

            Apparently when there is an independent candidate the programme leaves a space above them. It presumably means the incumbent candidate happened to be the first name out of the hat (metaphorically speaking) followed by the independent. Hence the incumbent (National) got the top spot followed by the blank space followed by the non- party Independent candidate.

            How convenient.

            • lprent 18.1.1.3.1.1
              23 September 2017 at 3:11 pm

              I scent :deeply suspicious:

              Lyn specialises in that. I used to get annoyed by it right up until her appliaction of it saved my life. Now I see the survival value of the trait.

            • greywarshark 18.1.1.3.1.2
              23 September 2017 at 6:37 pm

              In my electorate there was no-one listed as Independent but where ‘I’ would come (alpha order) of parties there was a space.

              Candidates were in alpha order by surname.

  19. Anne 19
    23 September 2017 at 9:42 am

    Stick around Exkiwiforces. I enjoy your take on events,

  21. Craig H 21
    23 September 2017 at 9:58 am

    So, the most important question is which coverage is everyone watching?

    It’s my wedding anniversary, but that won’t stop me being a political junkie/tragic…

    • lprent 21.1
      23 September 2017 at 10:05 am

      Radio NZ looks to have the best panel and a presenter who knows what he is talking about, It is actually balanced and not with the usual talking heads. These days they provide a good video via the net. I had to compliment Tim Watkins on the lineup the other day on Twitter.

      TV3 looks like crap. TV1 looks normal, but since I have heard them before I think I will skip it.

    • weka 21.2
      23 September 2017 at 10:09 am

      There’s a post still on the front page about this. I’ll bump it up later on.

  22. Adrian 22
    23 September 2017 at 10:21 am

    Hopefully be toasting with the results of our endeavours, we supply grapes to a wine co that makes a very very good Methode, we get quite a bit back and label it as
    ” Tonight! Josephine “, the back label has my wife Josephine’s reply, ” In your dreams mate !”. But who knows , go Jacinda.
    But seriously, early this morning Google still had Party adds coming up on random sites, one was a Yellow Pages search site.
    And a query, as a lot of the young ( presumably ) have registered and voted in the last 2 weeks and the Electoral Commission are reportedly overwhelmed and running a couple of weeks late in processing, are those votes not counted until the commission verifies them.
    Could be a long agonising wait for a final.

    [deleted – you can’t mention anyones voting intentions]

    • Adrian 22.1
      23 September 2017 at 11:57 am

      Sorry, humblest apologies thought it might have been borderline, even though it didn’t mention any intended parties.

  23. Union city greens 23
    23 September 2017 at 10:38 am

    Trump and little Kim going at it hard out and Trump looks like the more mental one. lol
    Only in amerika.

    • JanM 23.1
      23 September 2017 at 11:07 am

      I would find it difficult to decide who is the most thoughtless and ridiculous. And please, will no one refer to them as like kids in kindergarten (as I saw somewhere earlier on today). As a retired kindergarten teacher, I can promise you that the vast majority of kindergarteners have a lot more sense!!!

      • Andre 23.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 11:57 am

        If you look at it from the viewpoint that the entire motivation of the North Korean regime is to keep the Kim family in power, then North Korea’s actions make perfect sense. Provoking loud bluster and empty gestures from the US simply plays into keeping the North Korean people submissive to their Dear Leader and protector.

        However, it’s getting clearer and clearer that the kindest thing to be said about the technicolour howler monkey is that he is “yet to achieve” the impulse control of a kindergartner.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 23.2
      23 September 2017 at 12:06 pm

      <a href="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/vain-petty-nutjob-finally-meets-his-equal-20170809133733&quot;
      'He is old and I am young, I am a triumph of hereditary rule and he is a triumph of democracy, but deep down we are two spoilt children with chocolate around our mouths who will destroy the world rather than share it.'

  24. Whispering Kate 24
    23 September 2017 at 10:53 am

    It’s my partner’s birthday you wouldn’t believe it. We have had our restaurant dinner last night, the kid is skpying from the US this evening and we are giving all coverage a miss tonight – I have reached political overkill and we have both voted. Into the city later today to have a birthday afternoon tea with our other kid. Will listen for the news tomorrow morning in bed and just hope for fair winds and a [deleted] positive result.

    Robert, our Mr and Mrs Blackbird for the second season have given us a couple of babies tweeting in the garden. Same position but a new nest right outside our bedroom window in a climber growing up a pillar. The fledglings both left the nest today – so that was a lovely surprise. Now its extra apple and other treats left in the garden for the positively exhausted parents feeding the inexhaustable bellies of the babies. The Mum and Dad are very tame now and will follow the partner around the garden and he throws them worms – lovely life for some.

    • Rosemary McDonald 24.1
      23 September 2017 at 11:24 am

      …other treats left in the garden for the positively exhausted parents feeding the inexhaustable bellies of the babies. ”

      Do five tui constitute a flock? If so, my man spotted a flock of tui chowing down on the sparse bounty of our straggly, wind-compromised kowhai.

      There has been one large tui fending off allcomers all week…as well as yodeling away. Clearly the rest of the whanau heard because there appears to be three large birds and two grown but smaller ones.

      Ah! Spring eh?

      • Matiri 24.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 11:51 am

        Just had a fat glossy kereru drinking out of our gutter – glorious to watch from our upstairs window for a good 10 minutes, then it flew off into a kowhai tree. Will report to the Great Kereru Count which started yesterday.

      • Andre 24.1.2
        23 September 2017 at 12:05 pm

        There’s a local tui that mimics the default text notification on Samsungs. Someone near me must get a hell of a lot of texts, coz a few years back there was one that did the Nokia alert.

        • Robert Guyton 24.1.2.1
          23 September 2017 at 4:57 pm

          They say…that somewhere in the complex waiata of the tui, is the sound made by moa, passed on from imitative tui parent to chick, over and over, down to today, so, if you have an ear for it, you could hear the moa moot barooooom!

      • JanM 24.1.3
        23 September 2017 at 1:28 pm

        A flock of tui is called an ecstasy – isn’t that cool?
        And the one I keep hearing at the moment is imitating a car alarm – eeek!

        • Rosemary McDonald 24.1.3.1
          23 September 2017 at 1:52 pm

          “A flock of tui is called an ecstasy – isn’t that cool?”

          Way cool…I wonder, what is the origin of that?

          We have a ‘telephone’ bird that mimics the tone of the old ‘pert’ phone.

          I suspect a mynah or starling is the culprit.

          Also…very loud grey warblers, but sadly we have not spied a shining cuckoo.

          When questioning Nature’s logic of having the grey warblers advertising the location of their nesst to passing shining cuckoos, the Other Half told me that luckily for the GW they lay two lots of eggs per breeding season. The first is sacrificed to sustain the SC population and the second to preserve the hosts.

          Appears to have it all sussed, does Nature.

        • Anne 24.1.3.2
          23 September 2017 at 3:28 pm

          There will be a nest nearby. The male is warning all comers to “keep out”. It goes on from morning to dusk so… have fun.

    • greywarshark 24.2
      23 September 2017 at 11:45 am

      What a story Kate. Have a happy day. The blackbirds here are quite tame don’t rush off like the sparrows as soon as they see you. They live quite a few years I think so must get to know you.

      Perhaps we need to set up a new cult – The cult of The Blackbird, look after our babies and live humble busy lives digging in the ground and living off the land!
      What do you reckon Robert G – is this our way forward to happiness?

      This reminds me of Meg Lipscombe’s book A Nest in the Bush which is nice for children or anyone. She followed the raising of tui young in a nest close to a vantage point, and tried to take daily photographs of the 37 day task of parenting.

      Tui – Potton & Burton
      http://www.pottonandburton.co.nz/store/tui
      Tui is an intimate and rare look at the beginning of a tui’s life. … as a series of photographs showing the 37-day development of a pair of tui from eggs to fledglings.

      • veutoviper 24.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 1:38 pm

        Funnily enough I have just been playing Fat Freddy’s Drop for the last hour or so – including Blackbird. I am really fond of blackbirds, and they are great lovers of cat food and it is very good for them. So saves throwing out the food the cat itself turns its nose up at.

        Here is a link that should bring up FFD’s Blackbird as the first item.
        http://www.fatfreddysdrop.com/video

        I have also been playing Maisey Rika after Kim Hill played one of her songs on her RNZ National programme this morning. Really reminded me how much we have here in NZ and need to preserve for the generations to come.

      • Rosemary McDonald 24.2.2
        23 September 2017 at 1:58 pm

        “Tui is an intimate and rare look at the beginning of a tui’s life. … as a series of photographs showing the 37-day development of a pair of tui from eggs to fledglings.”

        Not fair, Greywarshark. Lure me down the path of new -book -buying unrighteousness, only to find the book is out of print! 🙁 🙁 🙁

        Oh well…I’ll add it to the list of titles to look for in the second -hand bookshops.

        • Robert Guyton 24.2.2.1
          23 September 2017 at 5:01 pm

          Jason Hosking, photographer for New Zealand Geographic magazine, has done a wonderful photo-essay on tui nesting and raising tiny tui. Jason visited last week and we talked tui; tui tui tuia!
          Ki te tangi a te manu e karanga nei “Tui, tui. tuituia !”
          Tuia i runga, tuia i raro, tuia i roto
          Tuia i waho, tuia i te here tangata

          Listen to the cry of the bird calling “Unite, unite, be one !”
          Unite above, unite below, unite within,
          Unite without, unite in the brotherhood of man.

      • AB 24.2.3
        23 September 2017 at 2:35 pm

        Greyrawshark. I highly recommend a poem by the great Wallace Stevens, “Thirteen ways of looking at a blackbird” if you don’t know it already.

    • Robert Guyton 24.3
      23 September 2017 at 4:50 pm

      Yunkers! It’s all been worth it! 🙂

      You’re well ahead of us southerners; we’re still collecting straw and horse hair, waking home owners early and looking sleek; raggedy parental exhaustion is yet to come. My red currents are pollinated and swelling; the blackbirds look on appreciatively, planning ahead. Good vibrations!

  25. SMILIN 25
    23 September 2017 at 11:04 am

    When we get electronic voting happening, that should shift things into a space of anonymity and ease for those who dont like polling booths as there are many who dont
    Should help with voter turn out which is the point of a democracy is it not ?

    • greywarshark 25.1
      23 September 2017 at 11:36 am

      Smilin
      Democracy is supposed to help with individual’s ability to gain knowledge and understand it and so be informed when using the right to vote for leaders and representatives. The information about electronic voting is that it is open to being manipulated, just in different ways than the various methods of paper voting which can be tampered with (hanging chads anyone, disappearing rural vote box in NZ).

      But an important thing is that it forces people to get out of their homes and do something together, not be isolated in their own little cell or personal institution.
      We need to resist becoming chair-bound, and machine-dependent. They are useful for the disabled, the rest of us must try to maintain our strength of mind, body and community.

      • Draco T Bastard 25.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 12:56 pm

        Democracy is supposed to help with individual’s ability to gain knowledge and understand it and so be informed when using the right to vote for leaders and representatives.

        Never seen that is a description of democracy. Of course, we do need good systems in place to ensure that people are well informed. We don’t have such systems.

        Democracy is actually about us governing ourselves, being our own leaders.

        But an important thing is that it forces people to get out of their homes and do something together, not be isolated in their own little cell or personal institution.

        Don’t see what that’s got to do with voting.

        If we want to socialise and encourage socialising then the voting booth isn’t the place to do it. The town centre is. Encourage people to mix and mingle and converse. A few bars and cafes and lots of open green space.

        • greywarshark 25.1.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 1:17 pm

          DTB
          I’m thinking about democracy and voting in the 21st century and what is needed. I’m not just repeating what I’ve been taught or picked up from the general communuity repeating stuff like an echo chamber.

          • Draco T Bastard 25.1.1.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 2:46 pm

            I’m thinking about democracy and voting in the 21st century and what is needed.

            So am I.

            And there’s a few points that need addressing IMO:

            1. The people need to be the government. Parliament then follows broad instructions from the people in writing laws. To get those broad instructions to parliament requires a better voting system than what we have now and that’s going to mean electronic voting.
            2. We need better systems to ensure that people are well informed. The privately owned and controlled MSM isn’t doing that.
            3. We need people to socialise with their neighbours, yes, but we shouldn’t be trying to tie that in with a specific action. That’s a recipe for limiting culture and socialising that will eventually bring about stagnation and the collapse of society.

            And, despite all the scare stories, online voting isn’t as insecure as people think. There’s risk involved but I think that it’s worth it especially if we put in place adequate system to detect cracking.

    • tracey 25.2
      23 September 2017 at 2:05 pm

      Young voters are not as online literate as many think. Having taught a mixture of on and offline to tertiary age, school leavers still have trouble following online instructions so do not think the “I dont know how to vote” barrier will go.

      USA has compulsory civics and has a way lower per capita turnout than us.

      Online voting is open to hacking and even if it were not people are disengaged which makes onlibe or offline voting irrelevant.

      • greywarshark 25.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 2:51 pm

        All very interesting stuff. Thanks mates things to think about.

      • weka 25.2.2
        23 September 2017 at 4:53 pm

        We probably should make a list of NZ government IT fuckups about now. Ardern said yesterday that online voting was a good idea to look at for 2020 so long as it was made secure. No shit.

        • lprent 25.2.2.1
          23 September 2017 at 5:04 pm

          I bet that I can crack whatever they come up with by one method or another. And I can think of a pile of other geeks who could as well.

          The thing I like about manual systems is that they are discrete elaments, checkable and isolated from each other. They are also hard to have widespread corruption without it being known enough to cause rebellion.

          • eco maori 25.2.2.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 5:25 pm

            Yes nothing is safe on the net the best solution is compulsory voting and a fine if you don’t vote well in my view.

          • Draco T Bastard 25.2.2.1.2
            23 September 2017 at 5:56 pm

            I bet that I can crack whatever they come up with by one method or another. And I can think of a pile of other geeks who could as well.

            Ah, but there’s a difference between could and would. Most of the geeks I’ve known throughout my life wouldn’t as they’d consider it cheating. And they’d also be willing to hunt down and ridicule with extreme prejudice those who tried it. Cheating’s Bad Form.

            • lprent 25.2.2.1.2.1
              23 September 2017 at 6:03 pm

              Sure. But this is something that is important. It isn’t something trivial that you can get insurance for to correct.

              The only real way to test it is to let a pile of outside programmers, social engineers, and hackers on it.

              Even then that only really specifies a minimum level of effort required to break it.

              But I am pretty sure there would be some interesting ways to run a ddos

  26. Bearded Git 26
    23 September 2017 at 11:11 am

    I saw a guy who did not look like a Left-leaning voter leaving the off-licence last night with a very expensive bottle of whisky so I said to him “got that to toast Prime Minister Jacinda tomorrow?”……..the look on his face was priceless.

  27. eco maori 27
    23 September 2017 at 11:14 am

    Yes Its a beautiful day in The tourist capital of New Zealand lets not celebrate to much one mite get in trouble

  28. Sanctuary 28
    23 September 2017 at 11:49 am

    I have been outaged at the use of polling to boost the ratings of the TV stations showing the leader’s debates and manipulate the debate agendas. This needs to be controlled, by micro-managing legislation (the sort of detailed rules you reserve for naughty children) if necessary.

    Weather is good – lovely in fact – here in Auckland, and I believe i am allowed to say voting was very heavy this morning here in the West Auckland polling places i drove past.

  29. lurgee 29
    23 September 2017 at 11:58 am

    Take that, Democracy!!

    Mwahahahahaha!!

    (The above is in no way intended to be viewed, regarded, read, construed, presented or represented, or otherwise interpreted, as a conspiracy or incitement to cause violence or harm against any person or persons, places, institutions or organisations. It just means I went out and voted.)

  30. Ant 30
    23 September 2017 at 11:59 am

    In our time of rampant post truth, false news and alternative facts we ponder collectively as a race a future without truth, – deteriorating inevitably into an existence based on shadows, nuances and deepening illusion. From advertising to political spin actual has value becomes subsumed by the skill of bold persuasion and the sly creation of impression.

    Organisms subjected to deterioration of their environment either die out or survive through selective genetic processes generating adaptation that promotes survival in the altered conditions. There is no such ready fix for the deterioration of our psycho/social environment. Rene Dubos (“So Human an Animal”) laments our inability to adapt our thinking and action to our worsening condition either through the ballot box or collective action. In stead we find ourselves in the grip of misery as evidenced by widespread suicide, substance abuse, poverty and depression.

    Some have spoken of a generational shift in thinking, – perhaps an awakening stimulated by the extraordinary appeal of “false truth’s” polar opposite: the bedrock of actuality, integrity and straight talk. Noted in politicians such as Sanders, Corbyn and others closer to home we get the impression of beings speaking plainly without the need to censor words by filtering them through screens of hidden agenda.

    One is reminded of an ancient verse coming to us from the Vedas, – Sanskrit lines written down 1500 B.C. (Here paraphrased by D. Spangler)

    When righteousness declines
    And wickedness is strong
    In the dying of an age
    As a new age comes along
    That is when I rise again
    And yet again to light the flame
    Of truth within all human hearts.

    Perhaps an new time is at hand.

    • greywarshark 30.1
      23 September 2017 at 12:07 pm

      That’s very hopeful Ant. The flame that arises is not always a good one though I think. I have noticed when there is great change causing distress in society, a strong movement to oppress people will arise with a message that this is
      The New Way. It can be devoted to being pure to something and be coldly determined to get rid of others who are not pure as devised by these ‘visionaries’.
      The message we need is to be kind to each other and be practical in advancing that idea.

    • Draco T Bastard 30.2
      23 September 2017 at 6:32 pm

      Perhaps an new time is at hand.

      We can but hope.

  31. eco maori 31
    23 September 2017 at 12:26 pm

    Why are the polling stations in Rotorua closeing at 4 pm and one at central mall closing at 5 pm Lakes council are running this WTF

    • eco maori 31.1
      23 September 2017 at 12:41 pm

      Yes my scepticism is right they are required to be open till 7 pm and they are closing 3 hours early in all but one which still closes 2 hours early WTF

      • weka 31.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 12:55 pm

        Try phoning them if you can

        0800 36 76 56

        I think there is an online contact too, am just looking for it.

        • weka 31.1.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 12:59 pm

          I tweeted the EC, not sure if I will get a reply.

          • weka 31.1.1.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 1:03 pm

            weka‏ @wekatweets 1m

            . @ElectoralCommNZ someone is concerned about polling stations closing early. Do u have more info on this? Or someone they can contact?

            Electoral Commission‏ @ElectoralCommNZ
            Replying to @wekatweets

            Hi – they should contact enquiries@elections.govt.nz with as much info as possible, and we will follow up.

            https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/911394306971254784

            Just asking if you can phone instead as not sure if you are at your email.

            • weka 31.1.1.1.1.1
              23 September 2017 at 1:08 pm

              they confirmed that you can call the 0800 # too. I’d do that promptly if you want something done about it today. You can tell the 0800 about the tweets from the offical electoral commission account.

  32. eco maori 32
    23 September 2017 at 12:30 pm

    Some one better start checking this facial voting system in Rotorua and MAKE SOME CALLS AND be QUICK ABOUT IT

  33. Sabine 33
    23 September 2017 at 12:36 pm

    voted already a few days ago and luckily i did as that allowed me to tune out the last minute crap on tv.

    today? gardening, weeding, planting. time for renewal and rebirth.

  34. eco maori 34
    23 September 2017 at 12:50 pm

    And some one better start checking all the other polling stations closing times all around the country because you no who votes LATE

  35. swordfish 35
    23 September 2017 at 12:52 pm

    Hopefully this does nay transgress the written or indeed unwritten law

    Election Night vs Final Results
    Party-Vote %

    Election Night … Final Result … Diff

    National
    2014
    48.06 ……………… 47.04 …… Down 1.02

    2011
    47.99 ……………… 47.31 …… Down 0.68

    2008
    45.45 ……………… 44.93 …… Down 0.52

    2005
    39.64 ……………….. 39.10 …… Down 0.54

    .

    Labour
    2014
    24.69 ……………… 25.13 …… Up 0.44

    2011
    27.13 ……………… 27.48 …… Up 0.35

    2008
    33.77 ……………… 33.99 …… Up 0.22

    2005
    40.73 ……………….. 41.10 …… Up 0.37

    .

    Green
    2014
    10.02 ……………… 10.70 …… Up 0.68

    2011
    10.62 ……………… 11.06 …… Up 0.44

    2008
    6.43 ……………….. 6.72 ..……. Up 0.29

    2005
    5.07 ……………….. 5.30 ….….. Up 0.23

    .

    NZF
    2014
    8.85 ……………… 8.66 …… Down 0.19

    2011
    6.81 ……………… 6.59 …… Down 0.22

    2008
    4.21 ……………… 4.07 …… Down 0.14

    2005
    5.84 ……………… 5.72 …… Down 0.12

    • lprent 35.1
      23 September 2017 at 12:59 pm

      I seldom get bothered by unwritten law. It is invariably just Bullshit myths.

      Written law in legislation, regulation, precedent or legal principles is almost as useful as reasonably verified physical theory. Even if you think it sucks you can build with it, test it, or design with it – all the time looking for its interesting exceptions.

      • swordfish 35.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 1:38 pm

        After all these years I’m still influenced by Monty Python’s Doco ‘ETHEL THE FROG’ on the notorious Eastend Gangland Protection Operation run by the Piranha brothers, Doug and Dinsdale

        Presenter A small-time operator who fell foul of Dinsdale Piranha was Vince Snetterton-Lewis.

        Cut to Vince in a chair in a nasty flat.

        Vince Well one day I was sitting at home threatening the kids, and I looked out of the hole in the wall and sees this tank drive up and one of Dinsdale’s boys gets out and he comes up, all nice and friendly like, and says Dinsdale wants to have a talk with me. So he chains me to the back of the tank and takes me for a scrape round to Dinsdale’s.

        And Dinsdale’s there in the conversation pit with Doug and Charles Paisley, the baby crusher, and a couple of film producers and a man they called ‘Kierkegaard’, who just sat there biting the heads of whippets and Dinsdale sayd ‘I hear you’ve been a naughty boy Clement’ and he splits me nostrils open and saws me leg off and pulls me liver out, and when I said “my name’s not Clement” he loses his temper and nails my head to the floor.

        Interviewer (off-screen) He nailed your head to the floor?

        Vince At first, yeah

        Cut to presenter

        Presenter Another man who had his head nailed to the floor was Stig O’ Tracey.

        Cut to another younger more cheerful man on sofa

        Interviewer Stig, I’ve been told Dinsdale Piranha nailed your head to the floor.

        Stig No, no. Never, never. He was a smashing bloke. He used to give his mother flowers and that. He was like a brovver to me.

        Interviewer But the police have film of Dinsdale actually nailing your head to the floor.

        Stig Oh yeah, well – he did that, yeah.

        Interviewer Why?

        Stig Well he had to, didn’t he? I mean, be fair, there was nothing else he could do. I mean, I had transgressed the unwritten law.

        Interviewer What had you done?

        Stig Er… Well he never told me that. But he gave me his word that it was the case, and that’s good enough for me with old Dinsy. I mean, he didn’t want to nail my head to the floor. I had to insist. He wanted to let me off. There’s nothing Dinsdale wouldn’t do for you.

        Interviewer And you don’t bear him any grudge?

        Stig A grudge! Old Dinsy? He was a real darling.

        Interviewer I understand he also nailed your wife’s head to a coffee table. Isn’t that right Mrs O’ Tracey?

        Camera pans to show woman with coffee table nailed to head.

        Mrs O’ Tracey Oh, no. No. No.

        Stig Yeah, well, he did do that. Yeah, yeah. He was a cruel man, cruel but fair

    • Draco T Bastard 35.2
      23 September 2017 at 12:59 pm

      So, we can expect conservative parties to drop and liberal parties to go up.

  36. eco maori 36
    23 September 2017 at 1:00 pm

    This behavior with the voting booths just confirms that what I have stated in some of my older post as fact

  37. tracey 37
    23 September 2017 at 1:08 pm

    Got confirmation I can vote in the mail today but no card with it.

    • alwyn 37.1
      23 September 2017 at 3:47 pm

      If you enrolled recently you won’t get a card. I assume that is what you have done.
      I think all the card really shows is the page and line number in the published roll, which you wouldn’t be in.

  38. joe90 38
    23 September 2017 at 1:23 pm

    When one nuclear crisis doesn’t quite wag the dog.

    President Donald Trump is leaning toward decertifying the Iran nuclear deal and putting the decision of whether the United States withdraw from the accord in the hands of Congress, according to four sources — including a senior administration official — familiar with the White House deliberations.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-leaning-toward-decertifying-iran-nuclear-deal-say-sources-n803121

  39. Tony Veitch (not etc) 39
    23 September 2017 at 1:32 pm

    And now for something completely different!

    Women have a brain only half the size/capacity of males, and after shopping, only 25% capacity.

    Therefore, there’s no way they can be allowed to drive!

    Or so said an imam in Saudi Arabia.

    Remind me, are we still in the 21st century, or have we somehow regressed?

    • tracey 39.1
      23 September 2017 at 2:10 pm

      But but but they have oil… no need for democracy or facts

    • Rosemary McDonald 39.2
      23 September 2017 at 2:10 pm

      “Remind me, are we still in the 21st century, or have we somehow regressed?”

      Mate, just yesterday a flouro dressed workingman whose truck needed to occupy the space taken up by my 5 tonne housebus, offered to help me move it by guiding me out of the busy mechanic’s yard in an industrial part of town.

      I couldn’t help myself, clutched my heart, and with as much sarcasm as i could muster gushed my thanks at the offer finishing up with a heavily laced..” Its hard for us women you know.”

      In all seriousness, he gave me a sympathetic smile and both him and his mate did the semaphore thing as I reversed competently around other vehicles and out onto the road.

      Going to practice my sarcastic tone now.

      Same as it ever was….

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 39.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 2:34 pm

        lol

        Last time I tried to help my wife back the car she scraped the wall – and yes, it was my fault. She’s a bloody sight better driver than me!

        • Brigid 39.2.1.1
          23 September 2017 at 5:21 pm

          Last time someone tried to assist me with backing a trailer, I told them to kindly get out of the way or I would run them over.

          • greywarshark 39.2.1.1.1
            23 September 2017 at 5:44 pm

            So much female anger around. Isn’t it time for some wise and balanced response. Polite and courteous. Males have been called out for being a bunch of hard-nosed brutes. Lead by example for heaven’s sake and don’t take pride in being rude, because you can! Save rudeness up for when it is really justified and effective.

      • jcuknz 39.2.2
        23 September 2017 at 3:52 pm

        R McD …. my Mother in 1931 was learning to fly until my presence was noticed and she had to give it away. A cause of my parents separation was that she could drive better than he could and wasted his money of bigger and faster cars ….. earlier at navy childrens’ school she dismantled and put back together a truck motor for a dare from her male classmates 🙂 Quite a gal my late Mum.

      • greywarshark 39.2.3
        23 September 2017 at 4:29 pm

        Rosemary
        Kindness….When someone is trying to be kind it needs to be accepted as graciously as a gift unwanted, that’s being kind in response. Being responsible for what you are doing when driving, you could station them at critical points and just get them to give you guidance there. Kindness and consideration need to be nurtured. We want more in the right places, just enough so we don’t get smothered.

        • Rosemary McDonald 39.2.3.1
          23 September 2017 at 7:07 pm

          greywarshark….i bet you 200,000 million dollars that had I had a penis they would not have been quite so ‘kind’.

          Forgive my French, but unless the ‘kindness’ comes from a veritable old person….around eighty years plus…I’m not going to take that kind of merde unchallenged.

          Or my great granddaughter to be will still be dealing with this shit.

          “Beloved Great Grandmama, ” she’ll say, “why did that man talk to me like i need him to teach me how to land the space shuttle? I’ve completed 200 missions without incident, and still he thinks I need instruction.”

          “Sorry, ” I’ll reply, ” fruit of the fruit of the fruit of my womb, we had to let them talk down to us in my day because we were still expected to be kind and gracious as women, even in the face of provocation.”

          Sometimes change needs us to push it. Just to keep it from backsliding.

      • ianmac 39.2.4
        23 September 2017 at 5:41 pm

        Might have meant well.
        I only just learnt recently that there is a correct way to tie shoelaces. I was quite excited. A woman was putting her shoes back on after visiting us and I helpfully said did she know that you had to start with a left over right?
        She bit my head off saying that she had been around reef knots since she was a girl and needed no help from me!
        It had taken me nearly 80 years to find out about bows and it seems I was the only one who is ignorant.

  41. Glenn 41
    23 September 2017 at 1:40 pm

    Asked to a friends election party and I lied and said I had a previous engagement as I knew what it would be. He said that it would be a small group of farmers but he wasn’t asking his friend Geoff as he was staunch Labour and wouldn.t fit in.
    If he only knew.

  42. Glenn 42
    23 September 2017 at 1:54 pm

    OK, seeing as this site is nonpolitical today can anyone tell me what Jagermeister tastes like. I have googled but got nothing worth while.
    I bought a 750 mil bottle years ago as the pharmacist recommended it for a bad cold and then before I got around to it the cold went.

    To my fathers undying shame I am not a whisky drinker and found out years ago that ouzo hit the spot. I’m hoping Jagermeister might be similar when I open it tonight to celebrate a probable new era.

  43. The decrypter 43
    23 September 2017 at 1:54 pm

    Imagine what it must be like living in a country with even harsher rules that we have imposed on us just for today ,–as regards political expression.

  44. eco maori 44
    23 September 2017 at 2:07 pm

    I was not going to write about my shit but some peoples attitude have prompted me to tell some more truths about how the SYSTEM has underarm bowled to me for a few years
    When I had a business with 18 workers I worked my ass off for 3 years 6 days a week I would get home and fall asleep on the couch most nites and that was a waste of time and sweat. So I went Dairy Farming and in the mean time ACC hits me with a $40.000
    bill so I start paying it off at $100 a week I was on shit money being my first year farming some asshole from Gisborne has been fucking with me for years ACC pursued me with lawyers after 4 years I got pissed off and lucky for internet banking I change my payment to $5 A week . Because of this ACC bill I had no credit for 14 years .
    And you know what the real shit that pissed me off is that ACC charged me for 3 years ACC levies and I was not in business I was milking fucken cows not cutting down trees
    I trusted ACC to have the correct charges . ACC actions cost me many opportunity’s .
    Because I would have brought a legal business 10 years ago as I no that business have got a major advantage over paye workers . And all ACC could say was O we have RE credited the over charges So ACC owes me a pound of flesh and I’m just biding my time to kick ACC ass. What a fair and just system we have
    Once again I have the emails to prove this Fact. The big picture is check any tax charges because they could have over charged you. KA PAI

    • eco maori 44.1
      23 September 2017 at 3:26 pm

      You no the saying you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink that water. Same applies when you say to the horse don’t drink from that trough golden trough because if you drink from that golden trough you and your family will slip down that ladder of life but the horse lies an says I have not been drinking from that trough well what can you do can’t kick the horse’s ass as you mite lose the horse .
      So one cannot be blamed If the horse won’t listen to you.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Rosemary McDonald 44.2
      23 September 2017 at 3:29 pm

      Funny you brung up ACC…I was just catching up on this…http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/340043/computer-decision-making-a-real-risk-experts

      Seems ACC choses to ignore what the real, live, human doctor says is the likely cause of your physical/ mental impairment and the best way of managing it and relyies instead on the artificial intelligence driven predictive tool….

      Some are quite rightly unimpressed by this.

      Kia kaha, eco maori, good onya for persisting. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

      • eco maori 44.2.1
        23 September 2017 at 3:48 pm

        Thanks Rosemary I look for something positive in life and that’s my family .
        I could have abandoned them and ran up the coast and hid like a mouse with no work and no future like some people have but I’m staying and fighting these assholes.

  45. One Anonymous Bloke 45
    23 September 2017 at 2:11 pm

    Advanced voting stats updated.

    Whether it results in a higher turnout overall is anyone’s guess. Paddy Gower (not sure if I’m allowed to link it) said yesterday that the EC reported more “youth” enrolments.

    • Craig H 45.1
      23 September 2017 at 5:11 pm

      Hard to say – international statistics show that the left tends to benefit from high turnout, but that may not be the case here. A high youth turnout massively benefits the left here though, as our own stats show.

  46. adam 46
    23 September 2017 at 2:20 pm

    If you have the time, I was doing house work and watching. 33 minutes. Video with Jimmy Dore and Lee Camp.

  48. mpledger 48
    23 September 2017 at 2:44 pm

    What ever way the election goes, about half the voters are going to be disappointed so tomorrow (and until this thing is finally settled) let’s be gentle with each other.

  49. Sabine 49
    23 September 2017 at 2:45 pm

    How do you warn people that a damn is failing when you have no power, no telecommunications, no radio, not TV no nothing?

    Puerto Rico today – dairy on Daily Kos.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/22/1700753/-As-Darkness-Falls-Puerto-Rico-Trying-to-Evacuate-70-000-People-As-Dam-is-Failing-No-Power

  50. millsy 50
    23 September 2017 at 2:51 pm

    Well, I did the deed — seems that there are a lot less voting booths than there used to be.

    I didn’t get a sticker.

  51. Cinny 51
    23 September 2017 at 2:57 pm

    It’s a beautiful day in Motueka, have been blowing up balloons for a party.

    I’m so freaking excited, enjoy your day/night everyone 😀

  52. swordfish 52
    23 September 2017 at 3:05 pm

    So can we confirm that all those Advance Votes cast by people who enrolled at the same time are included with the Specials = thus wait until the 7th of Oct ?

    • Zorr 52.1
      23 September 2017 at 3:18 pm

      From my understanding, they aren’t because they are votes cast at a polling place.

      Special votes are only when you can’t make it to an official polling station.

      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/new-zealand-election-2017-how-do-i-vote.html

      • tracey 52.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 3:43 pm

        My partner had to fill out a special vote cos we moved from one address to another in the last few weeks but in same electorate.

      • ianmac 52.1.2
        23 September 2017 at 4:10 pm

        I think that enrolling + voting is provisional. They are classed as special votes so will have to wait till 6 Oct. If you early voted and you were already on the roll your vote will be counted tonight. I think.

    • Anne 52.2
      23 September 2017 at 3:23 pm

      That’s my understanding.

    • Karen 52.3
      23 September 2017 at 5:33 pm

      Yes – that was confirmed by the electoral commission. The votes by anyone who enrolled during the advance voting period will not have their vote included in the totals given tonight. They will be treated the same as specials so we won’t know the result until 7 October. We will presumably be given an indication of how many fall into this category. However, if the election is very close we may have to wait 2 weeks before we know the makeup of the next government..

  53. Cinny 53
    23 September 2017 at 4:10 pm

    If you are in Motueka come and join us to watch the election results come in. We’ve booked upstairs at the Sprig and Fern, comfy couches, big screens, delicious food, red balloons and the bar sells some outstanding brews, the gig starts at 7pm, 😀

  54. joe90 54
    23 September 2017 at 4:12 pm

    Peter Hadfield [potholer54] responds to Patrick Moore’s What They Haven’t Told You About Climate Change

  55. eco maori 55
    23 September 2017 at 5:08 pm

    good video joe i think he was on simpon’s to

  56. James 56
    23 September 2017 at 5:17 pm

    Happy election night all.

    It’s great to be able to watch democracy in action.

    A late chance of plans has me watching this up northland – totally different demographic to Home.

    Going to be interesting to see how the night goes.

    Some of us may be disappoint the results – but whoever wins the result should be respected.

    It’s no point saying it’s important to vote if you call people stupid for their vote if they don’t agree with you.

    Anyway – we are all political junkies on this site – so it should be an entertaining evening.

    • Incognito 56.1
      23 September 2017 at 6:02 pm

      Thanks James but given that you have been contributing here on TS you have been witnessing democracy in action for some time now 😉

      I’m hoping for a great turnout (hope I can say this here & now?) which means Democracy will be the ‘winner’ today.

      Personally, I don’t like framing democracy in terms of winners & losers because I think is counter-intuitive.

      • lprent 56.1.1
        23 September 2017 at 6:16 pm

        You should complete the analogy. With a deliberately unpleasant and erratic judicial system backing it up.

        It is annoyingly the only known way to keep a open society open is to back it with illiberal reserve powers.

  57. Modnar 57
    23 September 2017 at 5:30 pm

    Can’t stand this waiting

  58. Tracey 58
    23 September 2017 at 5:57 pm

    Who are we sending the NZDF bill to? Auckland Council overseeing tanker transpirt. Who are the ratepayers sending this bill to?

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/97168827/ruptured-pipeline-repaired-but-now-comes-a-slow-build-up-to-full-capacity

  59. Pacific Princess 59
    23 September 2017 at 6:03 pm

    The evening is setting in…It has been great to get out in the fresh spring air for a jaunt around the neighbourhood. People have been going about weekend work tending to the garden, moving lawns and cleaning windows. As I passed by people outside their homes today they said kia ora or acknowledged me with a nod or a wave, gosh this hasn’t happened in a very long time. I look forward to a family gathering tonight where we will watch the results as they are released throughout the evening. Tomorrow is another day. Whatever the outcome, I feel energised, my eyes have been opened up to what is really happening in our community and across Aotearoa and want to get out there more often to do my part in making things better for all. I hope it is the same for others too. Kia kaha!

  60. Robert Guyton 60
    23 September 2017 at 6:10 pm

    Cancelled! Cancelled!! They can’t cancel and election, can they??? Not this late in the game; the bastards!!!

    (Just letting off steam. As you were 🙂

  61. eco maori 61
    23 September 2017 at 6:13 pm

    That pipe when using a digger u no when you hit steal many questions who when what

  62. ScottGN 62
    23 September 2017 at 6:26 pm

    Getting a bit nerve wracking innit?

  63. lprent 63
    23 September 2017 at 6:55 pm

    Its been a long day to date. But I’m on the Radio NZ Election 17 youtube program. And I have my fingers poised to remove the locks on the site.

    And let me say that it has been a pleasure moderating today.

    • lprent 63.1
      23 September 2017 at 6:56 pm

      And who else would play river deep mountian high?

      Or show the backend picking their nose on camera 😈

    • Carolyn_nth 63.2
      23 September 2017 at 6:56 pm

      Currently playing “Show no mercy”

      And the RNZ control room has more people than usually on Checkpoint – watching RNZ on Freeview.

  64. Union city greens 64
    23 September 2017 at 6:57 pm

    You did good. Victory tipple or sorrow drowner. Sip up.

  65. Incognito 65
    23 September 2017 at 7:00 pm

    Hora est!

  66. ScottGN 66
    23 September 2017 at 7:02 pm

    TV3 has Linda Clark on as well so that’s a good thing.

  67. lurgee 67
    23 September 2017 at 7:04 pm

    So, where’s the party at?

  68. eco maori 68
    23 September 2017 at 7:16 pm

    What dairy DUNNE

  69. AsleepWhileWalking 69
    23 September 2017 at 9:06 pm

    Now for something completely different.. CREEPY TECH!

    “Walmart is offering to do our grocery shopping, bring everything to our place, and put it in the fridge? How the heck is Walmart getting into our fridge while no one is home?”

    Author points out that in the light of the Equifax hack, perhaps having cameras within the home + door lock linked to Walmart probably isn’t gonna be embraced by anyone with half a brain.

    https://wolfstreet.com/2017/09/22/big-brother-walmart-tries-to-help-you-its-like-magic/

  70. Andrea 70
    23 September 2017 at 9:37 pm

    When we’ve finished our election for the day – Germany is next into the turmoil of public opinion on September 23.

    I’m hoping for Angela Merkel – a Trump antidote, perhaps.

  71. Eco maori 71
    24 September 2017 at 12:00 am

    Hopefully Winston remembers OUR Tipuna famous words He aha mea nui o te ao He tangents He tangata He tangata Kia Ora Winston

  72. Eco maori 72
    24 September 2017 at 1:06 am

    Kea Kaha Jacainda you can do this we can not afford to wait another 3 years Winston can see the big picture now he wants change he knows his people are suffering so please work with him I no he admirers Apirana Ngta like us so for your people make it work with the General all the best

  73. Eco maori 73
    24 September 2017 at 1:25 am

    Sorry Hilary I did Not mean to offended you I was not trying to steal your Mana I was just trying to encourage OUR young girls to aspire to you and become great Leader eco