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Open mike 23/10/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 23rd, 2011 - 94 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

94 comments on “Open mike 23/10/2011 ”

  1. LynW 2

    Thanks Bernard Hickey, great summary of advice to follow….if only….


    Do have a nice day and of course ‘Go the All Blacks! ‘ and then hopefully this country can enter some serious political debate! I live in hope!

    • RedLogix 2.1

      A good list. Now if you added to it a policy of not selling land to overseas owners and Gareth Morgan’s Big Kahuna tax proposal I’d vote for it.

      If you then added in a solid streak of Green energy and sustainable agriculture … I’d line up to have it’s babies.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        … I’d line up to have it’s babies.


        • ak

          mmmmm……I’d keep your knees together a while longer, Red, or at least insist on withdrawl – that big Kahuna might look irresistable after a couple of drinks, but reduced WFF and DPB will be one heck of a hangover….

          • RedLogix

            Yum.. true. But both niggles could be addressed with a return to a modest Universal Child Allowance.

      • Lanthanide 2.1.2

        I see Bernard is being more circumspect about it now.

        But his #8 really means “get rid of interest free student loans and working for families”. These are two policies he seems particularly offended by and has been bleating about them for years.

        • millsy

          Yeah, I dont know how he expects people to pay their rent,etc when they lose their WFF, but I guess when you are rolling in it, you dont worry about those things.

          I noticed that he wants the super age raised to 67. Which will be a kick in the teeth for those who have slogged their guts for 40-50 years doing manual work and then to find that they have to wait two more years to qualify for national super so they can retire at last.

          I have noticed that those who wish to see the national super age raised are those who have spent all their working lives sitting on their asses in an office and eating chocolate.

          • Jasper

            Why can’t NS just be income tested? Not means tested bu INCOME tested.

            It seems to be a foreign concept to a lot of people.

            Why should people claim NS if they’re already earning 50k+ per year?

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      9 Reducing consumption of imports, and saving, producing and exporting more.

      Why do people always expect an export led recovery to more growth to work?

      We have limited resources so why are politicians and economists so enthusiastic about using them up as fast as possible? Do they want our children and grand-children to have nothing?

      Is it really that important to force most people to work so that a few can have more nothing money in the bank?

      Can we please start asking two questions:
      1.) What is the economy?
      2.) What is it that we want the economy to do?

      I have a couple of answers:
      1.) The economy is the environment
      2.) To support our society in such a way so that everyone has a reasonable living standard without destroying the environment.

      Unfortunately our “economists” and politicians believe that the economy is money and that it’s purpose is to make a few people rich and everybody else poor.

  2. Barry 3

    Election campaign needs a song

    here is a starter. someone can improve it.

    Smile and wave
    Smile and wave
    When the country’s problems are so grave
    The economy’s in a stew, somehow we’ll muddle through
    It’ll be all right if I smile and wave.

    Tax cuts will make the country grow
    Cut public staff to pay the way
    If the unemployment rate gets high
    Everyone can work on the cycleway

    Australia equality’s our goal
    How to increase our growth at all?
    We’ll cut taxes and wages here
    We’ll catch up if they follow us and fall

    • chris73 3.1

      better then the gambler i guess

    • Colonial Viper 3.2

      Smile and wave
      Smile and wave
      When the country’s problems are so grave
      The economy’s in a stew, somehow we’ll muddle through
      It’ll be all right if I smile and wave.

      Tax cuts will make the country grow
      Or maybe just our debt will blow
      Cut public staff to pay the way
      Though unemployment ranks are raised
      Everyone can work on my cycleway

      Smile and wave
      Smile and wave
      Australia equality’s our goal
      How to increase our growth at all?
      We’ll cut taxes, jobs and wages here
      Sell our best assets all offshore
      Perhaps we’ll catch up if they fall

      NZ’s example is green and rich
      The Ireland of the South Pacific
      We’ll soon be a world financial hub
      Yet another throw away line thats flubbed
      The bankers now own the Irish blood
      More downgrades and we’re in the bailout club

      Smile and wave
      Smile and Wave
      Aren’t you getting bored?
      Not just photo ops, it takes work to do the PM’s job
      The criticisms are tiring, everyone’s got a beef
      Last thing you need is a bloody ship on a reef.

  3. Tigger 4

    Woodham pretends she isn’t shilling for Key. http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10761026

    Her logic is that we’ve had big disasters and Key handled them well. But he hasn’t and the economy is crap. There is zero analysis in this piece. It reads like a National party press release. And she’s hinting Key might last to a third term? Who pays her to write this simplistic shit?

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Kerry’s Key Fantasy

    • Redbaron77 4.2

      It’s pure Sunday morning leave-brain-on the shelf polemic. Kerry Woodham can do better work than this…

    • Draco T Bastard 4.3

      And she’s hinting Key might last to a third term?

      Not according to the Horizon poll. Which I suspect is the poll that has her so upset that she’s spouting about how great Jonkey and NACT are.

      • Tigger 4.3.1

        Exactly. Their assured victory is looking less assured so the memo went out: say that Key’s had a lot to deal with and yeah he’s not perfect but he tries so hard and he’s a nice guy…

  4. Carol 5

    Is qu & a just going to be about the RWC, today?

    *yawn*. Have sound on mute. Of course the ABs will win. Now let’s get on to politics.

    • Tigger 5.1

      I’m the same with the newspapers Carol. First thing today was nothing but RWC. I was over it weeks ago.

      Oh and vive la France!

    • Anne 5.2

      Helen Clark – the prime minister we can thank for NZ winning the RWC staging rights – was only mentioned once on Q&A this morning. During a short segment at the end of the programme with Auck. Central’s Jacinda Ardern and Nikki Kaye, some political analyst (not Jon Johannson) made the comment that in 2008 he thought Judith Tizard was tainted by her association with Helen Clark and that is why she lost the seat to Nikki Kaye.

      No response from anyone. I’m disgusted and am thinking I will not bother to watch tonight.

      Vive la France from me too!

      • Carol 5.2.1

        Actually, I’m also getting a little fed up with how late the games are. I may just record it. I nod off and wake early these days. Nodded off a couple of times during the Wales – Aussie match.

        • millsy

          Thats what you get with the TV networks in charge. TV snaps its fingers, rugby dances. Night games have ruined rugby as a spectacle.

          Anyway, come 11pm tonight, we wont be hearing about rugby till Feb.

          Go the AB’s — though I have to admit that its hard to get excited about a match that is more or less a foregone conclusion.

          • Deadly_NZ

            And if NZ win, the self congratulatory wankfest could last about 2 weeks.

            If NZ lose I figure it will be all over, bar the die hard rugby channel post mortem bullshite.

      • Vicky32 5.2.2

        Vive la France from me too!

        Et moi aussi!… I keep hearing that if the All Blacks win, so will NACT, and we don’t want that by any means!

  5. The Voice of Reason 6

    As an alternative to the OWS vagueness, here’s a real occupation.

    • Not the forgone conclusion that National has been relying on.
      I wonder how dirty they are going to get when threatened – more throat slashing gestures? More blame shift?ing More tanties from Key?
      I think we have “game on”!

      • Anne 7.1.1

        Watch the dirty tricks come thick and fast… the rumours… innuendo… claims of electoral fraud and related activity… suggestions of social (throw sex in there too) deviation… you name it, it’ll be on the Nat’s agenda!

        • Chris

          Not just Nat’s agenda

          Rumours of social (an sexual) deviation – have the rumours about a prominent MP hopeful who had an affair with a drug addict going to suddenly go away?

          Claims of electoral fraud and related activity – just two days ago David Parker posted on Kiwiblog implying that the Sensible Sentencing Trust had brought David Garrett a place on Act’s list, which as far as I am aware has been shown to be completely false given the SST has never given any money to Act.

          I’m not trying in anyway to imply that National are squeaky clean, quite the opposite but don’t pretend like it’s a game that only right wing parties play.

          On a different note I’ve noticed a lot of posts on here recently about the disappearance of Act, which is fair enough given how they are polling.

          However polls like this (not withstanding other rumours etc.) would suggest that Act will get back in through Epsom, as I seem to remember an earlier poll in Epsom saying that many of the people who planned to vote National would vote for the Act candidate if they perceived that National needed them.

          • Anne

            I’m not trying in anyway to imply that National are squeaky clean, quite the opposite but don’t pretend like it’s a game that only right wing parties play.

            I’ve been following the ‘political game’ for 35 years, and I can tell you the left-wing parties are as pure as fresh snow when compared to activites of right-wing parties and some of their vassals. I know of things that happened in the past (much of it before the 90s decade) which would cause a few individuals heart palpitations if they thought any of it was to see the light of day. I doubt if there is anyone in the Labour Party who knows the whole story.

            Oh and the story re David Garrett will certainly be true. There’s more than one way to donate to political parties when you don’t donate to political parties. Secret Trusts anyone?

            • Chris

              Ok well if you said it must be true then? It sure seems like you don’t have any proof and are just assuming that is what happened.

              I have no doubt that many right wing parties have done many things that they do not want to see the light of day, but to be honest if you think Labour are pure as fresh snow you are definitely looking through red tinted glasses.

              To be honest I’m sure that there are some parties which probably don’t have anything that bad too hide and those parties are more likely to be left wing (the Greens are one), however that does not mean that left wing parties are pure as fresh snow and all right wing parties are corrupt.

              • Anne

                if you think Labour are pure as fresh snow you are definitely looking through red tinted glasses.

                Your ability to read properly is lacking Chris. The clue is when compared to activities of right wing parties… Get it now?

                • Chris

                  I get it I just have a problem with people saying Labour are as pure as fresh snow because they are comparing their current activities to the activities of right wing parties in the 80s.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    There’s no difference between the antics of the ring-wing parties of the 1980s and today – they’re always despicable.

                  • Anne

                    You have a problem full stop Chris because your cognitive abilities are rather poor. Who said the ‘activities’ were confined to the 80s? Some were… some were after the 80s. The link between them is they involved the same handful of people.

              • Ok well if you said it must be true then?

                Is that the Labour way? Charles Chauvel said he could prove a claiom in Red Alert recently, when I asked hime for the proof he said it was because he was “a good judge of character”. I know how to judge his character now.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Yep, anything and everything that they can think of will be thrown at the opposition parties over the next week all the while blaming the opposition parties for fighting dirty.

          • Tigger

            Pete, if you’re going to be shilling for Dunne be honest and not this bs paasive aggressive crap. Dunne is done and should be.

  6. Slightly related to rugby much wider:

    Mana tane without violence

    THIS Rugby World Cup has been a banquet of mana tane — the good aspects of manliness.

    When men express their masculinity in a good way they are calm, strong, determined, competent, self-sacrificing, protective, ambitious, brave and humble, with vision for how events might play out.

    Warrior energy.

    This weekend the All Blacks are ambassadors for the mana tane of all New Zealand men.

    • so pete you agree with the position outlined in the article that,

      “There has been a push to portray the differences between men and women as social convention rather than hard-wired biology.

      According to this world view, women should compete with men for power, and not need their love.

      Men tend to want power and women tend to want love

      A man feels good about himself when he does good things. A woman does good things when she feels good about herself.

      When a woman feels great she is compassionate, graceful, empathetic, nurturing, modest, creative, flexible, gentle . . . feminine.

      The Ministry of Women’s Affairs advocates for it and women’s studies departments at most universities supply the indoctrinated staff.

      It promotes the message that women should embrace assertiveness, compete with men and be protected from them.

      The philosophy is called feminism but it would be more accurately called “femasculinism”, because really it is a rejection of femininity.

      We believe the $5 million a year Ministry of Women’s Affairs should become the “Ministry of Gender Affairs” and address the unique needs of both women and men, rather than trying to socially engineer away biology.”

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

        Oh dear, someone’s been reading Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus again.

      • NickS 8.1.2


        The stupid, it burns.

        In the last couple of decades there’s been plenty of solid research, which is nicely summarised in Delusions of Gender that throws biological determinism/hardwiring out the window when in comes to everything bar gender identity and sexual orientation.

        And to be really blunt – gender roles are cultural constructs, not biological determined.*

        Aside from the whole pregnancy and breast-feeding thing, of which breast-feeding is not really a requirement thanks to formula if there’s issues, and due to the joys of biology with a few hormones you can get guys to express milk.

        For Mad Science purposes. Of course.

        *gender roles are not gender identity per the evidence from transsexuals and people born with ambiguous genitalia who were forced into a particular gender based on surgeons + parents decisions.

      • Vicky32 8.1.3

        Hang it all, I agree with some of that! But on balance, only this ..

        When a woman feels great she is compassionate, graceful, empathetic, nurturing, modest, creative, flexible, gentle . . . feminine.

        After being ferociously attacked on another thread for disagreeing with Mr Man, I don’t feel any of the above right now, however..

  7. joe90 9


    It’s July 2008. You are a “TBTF” bank CEO. You’ve been running a 30 year ponzi scheme using ever-increasing amounts of debt while GDP has languished in roughly the same place for the last two decades in terms of numerical growth. In the 3rd Quarter of 2007, when the S&P 500 hits 1576 and the DOW tops, the economy put about six times the amount of debt into the system as there was GDP growth, and at that point GDP had started to roll over. It had an obvious geometric progression look to it but only a few people in the blogosphere had been hollering about it. You wondered how much longer it was going to be before the people woke up.

  8. To truly bring fairness back to employment we need a strong Green influence:

  9. Cloaca 11

    Looking forward to end of RWC so that we can see Labour’s Policy being released. Appreciate you cannot compete against RWC so “Way Go Labour” from say Wednesday. Let’s know how you can assess the next 3 years/6 years (including 2014 win). Don’t copy the Greens – they are loving the limelight currently with a possibility of 15 seats. Let’s have the Labour alternative to Labour seats away from Greens (though they will be a good coalition party after 2014). Meld labour Policy with Greens not separately and we are on to a winner. Turning Left will not help.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      So, you think a supposedly left-wing party shouldn’t actually be a left-wing party?

  10. Treetop 12

    This morning on Radio NZ just after 11 am austerity measures (which will occur for months – years) in Greece were reported as increasing suicide.

    40% increase in reported suicide in a twelve month period.
    Twice as many calls to crisis helplines due to the strain and anguish of the economy.
    Payments can be deferred for months re business but eventually the cracks open up.
    Nearly 17% unemployment.

    I have not caught up with the European Euro Bank and IMF meeting because if Greece is not loaned 8,000,000,000 euros they cannot pay pensions in mid November.

    I explained to a person the other day how governments are bailing out banks and that banks will foreclose on the family home rather than assist the home owner. A man on after 11 am this morning said that governments need to bail out home owners before the banks.

    • Puddleglum 12.1

      There were other interesting interviews in that post-11am slot (called ‘Ideas’, I think). It was all about the movements this year opposing capitalism and for democracy.

      There was a good report on protestors from Tunisia, Israel, Chile and Wellington. The Tunisian and Israeli woman interviewed were particularly interesting. The report came later in the hour.

      The audio is here (about 52mins) here 

      • Puddleglum 12.1.1

        One particularly interesting comment from the Israeli woman (in response to the comment that the protestors appear to have about 90% support in the population) is that everyone from the religious Jews to Arab Israelis are part of it.

        When they talk to each other, they realise they all want the same thing (a home, community, stable work, etc.) and they can’t get it because of the radical new right policies – including privatisation – that are being implemented internally in Israel.

        She noted that not many people outside Israel realise all the internal tensions and think that Israel’s only problem is the ‘Israeli-Palestinian’ issue.

  11. millsy 13

    Labour’s water policy comes out tomorrow — apparently it will feature charging farmers for water taken for irrigation. I find it very interesting that farmers seem to have no problem for paying for electricity, but when it comes to water, they expect it to be free.

  12. Treetop 14

    Students sharing beds to save cash

    I keep harping on how there is a housing crisis as housing is unaffordable.

    • Carol 14.1

      Well, back in my student days in the early 70s I shared a bedroom with another student for a few months. I knew a couple of (straight) male students who also shared a bedroom for a lot longer than that.

      • Treetop 14.1.1

        Cost of a room has gone up $50 a week in the last six months. Today students have to pay fees.

        I think in 1973 the European Economic Community said NO to our lamb exports and the oil shock.

        Do you think times are much harder for students today?

        • Carol

          Actually, yes do think things are much harder for students today, but I’m not sure whether sharing a bedroom is that much of a sign of how much harder it is.

          • Treetop

            I would like to see some research done into the cost of housing for students in Dunedin and Auckland when it comes to affordability and choice. Wellington has a good transport system and the city is more compact. Christchurch is different again due to housing being a problem not just for students in particular.

            There is a real housing crisis in Auckland which will not go away until the housing shortage is addressed properley. Heatley (if returned) will ruin HNZ.

            • McFlock

              I think the inner circle (4 blocks from campus) goes for 100-150p.w. plus expenses, maybea bit more (I gave up looking in that area over a decade ago). $80-odd p.w. for a room a distance from campus, but that involves $30p.w. on public transport or getting reamed for parking.
              I think student loan “living costs” are still around $170 p.w.? I don’t think it’s possible to get an education these days without constant value from parents (either free board or a hundred dollars a week) or serious amounts of work, to the point it stuffs your study.

              • millsy

                As I said before, I wouldnt recommend full time study to a school leaver anymore. I would say get a job and study part time/extramurally. I wouldnt bank on the forces anymore, given that the jobs there are slowly being outsourced and privatised.

                • Carol

                  I think it must be the future job prospects that must be most worrying to young people/students these days, compared with when I was young. This means there is much more pressure to get good grades today.

                  My main full time student experience was as a teachers’ college student (not a degree course in those days). Money was quite tight, but I was bonded to work for 3 years after graduation and guaranted a job.

                  Before doing that course, in my late teens, I was working full time and was sharing a little flat (this was the late 60s). There were weeks when we had no money for food the day before payday. We didn’t have much to spend our money on – we had no TV, just a radio, a little record player, and one landline phone between us. There wasn’t much night life in Auckland, just movies and pubs, which we spent sparingingly on. Our transport was largely motor scooters or public transport.

                  I had friends around that time who shared a bedroom to make it easier for them financially. But we all had jobs, albeit not well paid, and we all felt these jobs would lead to higher paid ones in the future.

                  In contrast, the future must be quite a worry for young people today.

              • NickS

                $164/week for living costs, and about $190 a week for a student allowance + living costs + rent subsidy if not living with parent(s).

                And yeah, it’s pretty difficult to live off that alone unless you’re flatting with communal cooking/groceries or living at home, especially if you drive or bus.

                • McFlock

                  Even with flatting, it’d be pretty dodgy math. 
                  Back in the day I was on $150/wk loans, but that was ten or fifteen years ago. There was a period i was on rice and foodbanks for a bit, but in general I lived okay – not well, but okay. Forget dignity, I just don’t see how it adds up on current prices, even according to tory slide rules.

                  • NickS

                    Yeap, last time I was flatting I only had $20/week left after rent. food and bills from $150/week living costs.

                    Bloody depressing and without student job search I would have had “fun”.

                    These days I wouldn’t even dream of trying to flat in Christchurch without a part time job as the increases in food and power make it tricky to live off $164-169/week and eat properly.

            • millsy

              I still think that that the HNZ changes are more geared towards private landlords than anything else. The only thing I can see is rents rising across the board as a result of forcing thousands of vulnerable tenants and families into insecure private rentals.

              I have always belived that the price of food, veges, milk, etc is a red herring. Its the fact that rents are so bloody high that we have bugger all left to buy anything else.

      • Vicky32 14.1.2

        Well, back in my student days in the early 70s I shared a bedroom with another student for a few months.

        But sharing beds is another thing altogether!

    • Chris 14.2

      Why do they refuse to move to the suburbs – I’m in Mt Albert and pay only a little more than that for a nice two bedroom unit with a pool, gym etc in the complex.

      • Treetop 14.2.1

        For some the location is the priority due to the advantages:

        No transport required.
        Time is shaved by not commuting.
        Some people find it cheaper to eat out and the CBD offers a better choice generally.

    • millsy 14.3

      Studying is bloody expensive and youre always poor. I was lucky that the qualification I’ve got I was able to gain at the local poly, so I could live with the parents while I was studying. Since then they chopped a lot of qualifications offered there so many young people have to move to another city into these situation.

      It seems to be that the least financially hard way to ‘upskill’ is to study part time while working.

      Tertiary education needs a huge shakeup in this country.

    • newsense 14.4

      pics or stfu

  13. Treetop 15

    “Tertiary education needs a huge shakeup in this country.”

    Same theme, the haves and the have nots. We know who the haves are.

    Students have it so hard today due to constant limitations e.g. rising fees, cost of housing, limiting of courses, no job security when the qualification/degree is gained.

    • millsy 15.1

      ” no job security when the qualification/degree is gained”

      Took me 2 years to find a job after I got my degree in IT. I was overqualified for non-IT jobs and underqualified for the IT jobs currently going.

      In all honesty sometimes I wonder if my qualification needed to be at a degree level and whether a simple 1-2 year certificate or diploma would have been sufficent.

  14. newsense 16

    Ugg Kerre Woodham can be insipid at times:

    “If the minimum wage is raised, some workers will be laid off and prices will go up. End of story.”

    “He may be mocked as Mr Smile and Wave, but doing that and carrying on as normal is not so different to the Keep Calm and Carry On exhortation during World War II.”

    Yes John Key does remind one of Churchill in his efficacy. Thanks Kerre.

    and for John Armstrong:

    “Phil Goff, at least, showed some restraint in delaying his visit. He then blew it by calling for a moratorium on new deep-sea oil drilling until suitable environmental safeguards are in place. ”

    So we handle an oil spill extremely badly, the population as a whole is rather worried about how we would respond to a much larger oil spill and yet somehow the opposition opposing a controversial and unpopular policy is in Armstrong’s words:

    “a bout of MMP politics at its worst”

    • millsy 16.1

      Im bloody over that tart. Its always those who are rolling in cash who think those at the bottom end of society are getting too much.

      Same as above, it is always those who have spent their working lives in offices pushing pens and shuffling paper who think that the superannuation age should be lifted.

      • Jum 16.1.1

        Millsy said:

        “Same as above, it is always those who have spent their working lives in offices pushing pens and shuffling paper who think that the superannuation age should be lifted.”

        Very good point.

      • Puddleglum 16.1.2


        My father retired at 60, when that was the age. He’d worked for 46 years, mostly in factories. If he had worked until 65, let alone 67, I doubt whether he would have made it to 76 (when he died – of asbestos related cancer).

        I’m always grateful that he had at least a reasonable number of years at the end of his life when he didn’t have to wake up at 5:15am to get to work for the 12 hour 6am shift. 

        • Jenny

          Why of all the Social Welfare measures adopted around the world since the 1800s was the first and the oldest reform always the pension?

          What working person hasn’t witnessed an older, once leading, and respected worker being humbled as they fall behind, affected by the afflictions of long-sighted-ness, bad backs and all the other ailments that begin past the age of 40 and accumulate past the age of 50.

          Past the age of 60 this humiliation becomes unbearable for other workers to witness.

          That is why cutting the pension, or raising the age entitlement is the third rail of Welfare Reform.

          Any political party, and I mean ANY PARTY that dares to touch this issue will be severely burned.

    • Anne 16.2

      Yes, I picked up on that newsense. Talk about double standards! Does Armstrong ever read what he has said in the past? Apparently not because he contradicts himself time and again. I’m actually of the view that he tries to appear ‘neutral’ while surreptitiously pushing the Nat. line as hard as he dares. In other words the subliminal message to the sheeples is “vote National”.

  15. No power to cafes/bars in Kingsland. Four hours before someone says “I think we should get a generator in”
    Once again NZ doesn’t have the capacity to react to emergencies and make command decisions or sort out the priorities.
    Businesses, tourists, fans need power – bugger where the problem is, we can have one team continuing to work on that – but in the meantime get that generator on the move and get these people hooked up with 90 mins.
    Not 5 hours later!

    • Treetop 17.1

      Posts 17 & 18 the delay is probably due to who is going to pay the bill for the generators and the booms.

      Pike River receivers and Christchurch insurers are good examples of why the job is not progressing at an acceptable pace.

  16. New development on the Rena incident….
    with the new spill in oil today MNZ are deploying heavy duty booms that can “work in strong currents” and a skimmer that can collect the oil.
    So, are they telling us that booms (of the right type) can be deployed in open seas? That oil can be corralled and then collected at sea?
    I thought that the government said such things weren’t possible.
    I thought they said that once the ship hit the rocks there was nothing we could do about it.
    I though they said that we had to wait until it washed ashore and then collect it.
    Surely our government hasn’t lied to us? *lip quiver*
    They wouldn’t do that to us would they? *sniff*

    • McFlock 18.1

      I don’t find the lies so hurtful as the fact that they can’t go a month without contradicting themselves, and I don’t find that as sad as the fact that the media almost never notice.

    • Dv 18.2

      Where did the booms come from?

      • William Joyce 18.2.1

        TV3 News didn’t say so. They just glossed over it as though there was no greater story there. I know where they should have got them – from their own emergency equipment storage facility and they should have got it on day one.

  17. joe90 19

    From Sushi to Tunisia: A Guide to Swaying Majority Opinion.

    How do you topple a tyrant or popularize a foreign cuisine? According to a recent study in the journal Physical Review E, mobilizing an unyielding minority of 10 percent may be enough.

  18. Draco T Bastard 20

    Arms trade: Business before human rights?

    The human rights group reports that in the five years preceding the Arab spring $2.4bn worth of small arms, tear gas, armoured vehicles and other security equipment was sold to five specified countries that have faced or are facing popular uprisings – Bahrain, Egypt, Libya, Syria and Yemen.

    And these sales were committed by at least 20 governments including Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, the UK and the US.

    Of course it’s business before human rights – can’t make a profit if you go around around standing up for peoples rights. If you did that, they may not fight and then wouldn’t need the weapons.

  19. Draco T Bastard 21

    Another tech pioneer, Dennis Ritchie, passes

    Ritchie created the C programming language, and together with Ken Thompson, designed the UNIX operating system without either of which you wouldn’t be able to name that other charismatic pioneer so much in the news lately.

    Ah well, they come and go. Good legacy left though.

  20. logie97 22

    … great result tonight from an enthralling game – and France were not walkovers at all.
    (Anyone prepared to open a book on a call for the All Black flag to be adopted as our national flag.) – I give it less than two days to become a national discussion point – hope I’m wrong.

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