I’m sure the NWO can get their hands on these goods at anytime.
It is more about ‘control’.
First you install fear into the lives of humans, then (as a humanitarian ruse) beef up the security, while at the same time you ‘prison’ the world population.
I doubt this is a ‘religious’ thing, even though Islamic extremists are involved, but then I can imagine so are the CIA.
The NWO don’t care about religion, they just use it, to trick people (the innocents and also- the foolish that are involved, with the crime itself)
So are the people whose jobs entail putting all this information together in these pretty tables – are they ‘bureaucrats’ or a front line service?
Is filling out the paperwork a ‘front line service’ or part of bureaucracy.
Given that publishing the tables will create more of this type of work (more trying to comply = more reporting = more bureaucracy) how can Mr Ryall justify National’s ‘fewer bureaucrats’ billboard?
I know, the pedant in me couldn’t resist fixing it, hence the quotes… Of course, Labour is to blame for the poor education that lead to National’s atrocious billboard grammar…
The issue around the 9/11 Conspiracy movement that people face is about consistency in using scientific evidence to back up your claims.
If you are going to denounce climate change skeptics like Ian Wishart and Lord Monckton as misrepresenting the science and using dodgy studies to back up their claims you can’t expect to be taken seriously when you then use the same sort of tactics to support claims around the September the 11th attacks.
Mainstream science is solidly behind the official version of how the three WTC buildings collapsed. You might dredge up some largely discredited studies which you might calim suggests otherwise ,however it does not mean the Science is still undecided on this issue.
Given the Science is solidly behind the mainstream version then you should realise how repugnant and ridiculous the implications of the 9/11 Truthers actually are. A massive conspiracy by elements of the US administration which has been phenomenally successful at first pulling it off, and secong keeping it quiet as well as fooling, or controlling the mainstream scientific community.
If you truly believe that then noone is going to take you seriously if you try and push a science based approach to anything ever again.
Wow! Because Compernicus lived in a time where his writings were subjected to intense scientific peer review and then his ideas were discredited didn’t he?
Oh no wait he didn’t. He lived in a time where the Church decided what made up the world view and his vies forceably supporessed. The scientific method wasn’t yet established and freedom of intellectual thought was not allowed.
Are you implying that we live in a similar time to Compernicus then? If so how can we trust any Science such as what comes through the IPCC?
You got me very confused Gosman. Are you saying that mainstream science can be trusted on 911 but not on global warming? And that the rest of us are being inconsistent?
No, I am stating that if you argue that the mainstream scientific consensus should be used to determine whether or not AGW is actually happening you make yourself a hypocrite and a laughing stock if you then ignore the same mainstream scientific consensus when it comes to something as controversial as the September the 11th attacks.
You haven’t even begun to demonstrate that “Mainstream science is solidly behind the official version of how the three WTC buildings collapsed.”
If you could, you’d have a point.
But if you could, you would have already done so.
Yesterday RedLogix wasted a lot of time trying to discuss the scientific implications of your assumtions and you did nothing but attack him as a kook, a nutjob, a conspiracy theorist etc.
As you’re not willing to have a science-based discussion it’s very hard to see any point engaging with you on any science-related matters at all.
I’m sure you’ll continue to yell and scream all day today about how everyone who doubts anything you say is insane, a conspiracy theorist or whatever the currently fashionable insult is, but once people realise (and they do seem to have realised) that you’re not really up for a discussion anyway, why would anyone bother?
The only thing of any interest to me is why do you do it? You seem to be starting these threads every day, here and elsewhere. Why would someone devote so much time and energy to what you’re doing, which is essentially the equivalent of standing on a street corner shouting “THERE ARE CRAZY PEOPLE EVERYWHERE!!!”
After a while most of us learn to walk past those people. We’ve seen the movie before. We know how it ends.
Obviously he is part of Bush’s intricate world wide web of deceit designed to cover up what really happened during 9/11. They have been mounting a blog campaign using people who aren’t scientists to discredit other people who aren’t scientists. Its all part of a brilliant bottom up strategy that has kept truther’s on the fringe for the last 8 years.
Wait till you find out the rescission is actually Bush’s creation designed to discredit Obama thereby ensuring black presidents all over the world are ousted and replaced by Bush clones created in a secret lab that was UNDER THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DUM DUM DUM
I believe I have provided a number of links and made references to Scientific critiques of the 9/11 Truthers claims as well as the actual NIST reports, ( which is the most comprehensive scientific evaluation of the structural failings of the three WTC buildings to date). If you have chosen not to read these articles then that is your problem.
As for your claim I have started the debate take a look at how the debate developed here. It was Travellerev and RedLogix who broutght this topic up on yesterday’s Openmike, not myself. I in fact did not respond until well after the discussion had been going for quite a number of hours.
If you don’t want people responding to controversial topics like this then perhaps you should ask people not to raise them.
I’m highlighting a huge double standard when it comes to the use of Scientific evidence to support one’s position.
I find it morrally reprehensible that someone like Ms Fitzsimons of the Greens can claim to be promoting the Scientific mainstream view when it comes to AGW, (something I have no problem with BTW in case you join BLiP in trying to tar me with the Global Warming denier brush), but she and others completely jettison this sound and logical psoition when it comes to something as odious as the 9/11 Truther movement.
This is a topic that goes beyond a mere Left versus Right argument. You are either supportive of the Scientific method or you are like the looney radicals of the Anti-AGW and 9/11 Truther movement and cheery pick bad science to support your viewpoint.
I notice you have not disagreed recently with my asertion that the Science behind the claims made by Richard Gage and his ilk are seriously flawed. Does that now mean you can agree with me that supporting the aims of his movement and promoting it, as people like Travellerev do here, (without any prompting from me I might add), is deserving of a response?
This in no way changes his point. You have people on one hand claiming that the accepted scientific opinion is that Global warming is real (which I agree with) so the minority of scientists who claim it isn’t are crazy. Then on the other hand even though the majority of scientific opinion is that 9/11 was carried out by terrorists doesn’t mean that the few scientists who claim it wasn’t are crazy.
To argue one then the other leaves you in a position where you seem to be someone who isn’t really interested in the science but someone who is interested in finding science that meets your needs.
“Then on the other hand even though the majority of scientific opinion is that 9/11 was carried out by terrorists”
I’m not convinced that this is a ‘scientific’ question in the same way that AGW is. Sure, science is involved but it’s not like there is a broadly accepted theory that when buildings collapse it’s because of terrorism and that truthers are denying the theory of terrorism.
We are talking about one data point, unrelated to any controversial theory.
Both sides of the 9/11 debate claim they have the weight of scientific literature behind them.
The Truthers largely rely on the some misrepresentations on the Physics of Structural engineering and how free standing builds collapse plus a couple of incredibly dodgy studies by some Conspiracy Theorists ‘Scientists’ which supposedly show that Active Thermite particles were found in the debris.
The otherside of the debate relies on the very detail official scientific investigation by NIST, amongst others. This is generally accepted as the Mainstream view. On top of that there is the huge number of people out there that pull apart the 9/11 truthers so called Scientific studies.
This is firstly a simple case of where you are either for the Mainstream scientific view or against it. Whether you believe the particular theory that supports this comes after that.
I understand exactly what you are saying. However, it seems to me a bit of an apples/oranges fallacy. Unlike climate science, the 911 situation has only, about, half a dozen questions which need to be answered to reach a definitive conclusion.
There are a plethora of other questions surrounding motive and means which I would also like answered, but the science itself can be solved easily.
That’s a fair argument to make. The way I see it is there are motives for both sides. I however think that the conspiracy option is far harder to swallow. Bush was dumb and ignorant, but it’s a big step to sign off on faking the greatest terrorist attack on US soil. However I have no doubt that there are terrorist organizations out there who would want to make an impact such as this.
Here is a link to a detailed analysis of the Controlled demolition theory. It is apparently written from someone who is opposed to the UK and US foreign policy decisions in the wake of September the 11th. So it just goes to show that you can still be a good left winger and support the official position on this subject.
I especially like this bit about the Journal of 9/11 studies, where many of the studies supporting the Conspiracy Theories are published –
“However, it has been quite obvious from the very beginning, that most of the so-called peer-reviewers are none other than other members of the same organization. In other words, they are peer-reviewing each others’ papers.”
If this was an Anti-AGW organisation people would be all over this.
Face facts – the Science behind the 9/11 Truther movement is seriously flawed not to mention the bizarre implications of what they claim.
In that case, you can have no objection to the “truthers” being made to look like they fools they are at an open, independent investigation before the world’s media?
That would be about as productive as David Bain’s retrial. A bunch of people with preconceived opinions deciding on a topic that was already judged by those who went into it with an open mind.
There already has been an investigation into what happened on September 11th 2001. In fact there are three separate official investigations. Just because the Truthers don’t like the outcome doesn’t mean that they should be humoured.
Also what new evidence is meant to be investigated? That Active Thermite was present in the debris? I have shown that the studies which suggest that are seriously flawed as well as being promoted by people with a particular agenda i.e. not independent Scientists. Perhaps it is that Controlled demolitions are the only way to explain how the three buildings fell? Didn’t the NIST report deal with this?
What new scientific evidence that is credible is going to be investigated BLiP?
Once again BLiP – What new credible scientific evidence is being presented that would justify a new investigation?
Just because Richard Gage and his band of nutjob Conspiracy Theorists jump up and down and quote copious amounts of bad science to support their claims doesn’t mean they deserve a hearing.
There are people out there who think the Moon landing was staged – Do they deserve an investigation as well?
To be perfectly honest, what does it matter these days?
The towers fell down and a whole bunch of war was made because of it. There is no way to take back that day or the years that have passed inbetween or the people killed in the fighting. It is wasted breath on both sides – be a 911 Truther and conspiracy theorist or just accept the official story, at the end of the day it just doesn’t matter at all.
A look at the NIST website is interesting, but their investigation of 911 is hard to compare with the IPCC AGW science. The biggest difference is the much smaller number of scientists named and the fact that almost no-one got to see or study any of the original building wreckage.
One report, even if it is a very thick one, from one group, that has not been subject to open review with all the source data is not the same as a consensus. 911 was a single event, and all the original evidence is now long gone, so it makes it very hard for anyone to prove anything that disagrees with NIST.
It’s a bit like someone wanting to discuss or challenge the claims of pro-global warming scientists, but none the temperature records being available to look at because they were destroyed years ago. No-one would be very satisfied with that.
Two different things however. Climate change is constantly happening allowing for constant collection of data that is available to anyone who wishes to use it. The 9/11 attacks were a single incident. Data was collected and analyzed by experts who came up with the final NIST report. The data they used for that incident is available to those who claim it was a conspiracy. They choose to cherry pick it and supplement their evidence with poor quality video and unsubstantiated eyewitness evidence and ignore any data which is counter to the findings the want. Just like any good conspiracy.
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.
The study by a Cambridge University, UK, engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.
One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a “controlled demolition”.
The new data shows this is not needed to explain the way the towers fell.
As much as the truthers like Redlogix want to claim that science is on their side they are wrong.
I am not sure if this is the right way to go about things, but I want to ask a question of someone who has better knowledge of economics than I have: In the business pages of this morning’s Herald, there was a claim from treasury that we need to cut government spending if we are to “close the gap” with Australia. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10610950
I am inclined to think that if it is true that the Australian Government spends a smaller portion of it GDP on welfare, etc, this is in part because Australian wages are not so far removed from what it costs to live. So they do not go so far in using welfare to bridge the gap between the fantasy of wealth and the reality of stagnation. Hence I am inclined to see treasury’s claim as getting things the wrong way round – that in reality Australia is not doing comparatively well because of less government spending, but rather their government needs to spend less because Australia is doing comparatively well. Am I wrong about this?
“I think I am the first leader seeing the Queen, and I am doing the toast for the Queen as well,” Mr Key said on TVNZ’s Breakfast programme this morning.
“I must be teacher’s pet. I think it was something to do with bringing back the knighthoods.”
Titular honours were abolished by the Labour-led government in 1999, but Mr Key reinstated them.
A spokeswoman for Mr Key said he was invited to make the toast at the Friday dinner hosted by the Queen – it is an honour given to the most recently-elected country leader.”
First up, Treasury are a bunch of dry right fossils whose default position on any given subject is ‘reduce government spending’.
Secondly, Australia has an extra level of government and taxation that we don’t; the states and territories. So I suspect they have more ‘government’ than we do. The country is significantly wealthier than NZ, both because of the raw materials boom and the scale factors between the two economies.
Australia collects more PAYE than we do, because more of them are in jobs (on average) than us and those jobs are better paid than us (by 25-30% apparently), so there is more tax money to be distributed.
All in all, I’d say the Treasury quote was the usual bollocks and your estimation of the situation is spot on.
Thanks for that VTR – Treasury would have required six months research and a big budget to come up with that summation (which they wouldn’t of course).
I wonder if we can pare Treasury’s costs down, sort of like politicians are now – they could pay for their own extravagant gear, furnishings etc. I think one of their executive ilk had his (her) desk imported from Italy in the free-market feeding frenzy around 1990.
Your suggestion should really be towards those like Travellerev who continue to post her odious and repugnant Conspiracy Theories on this blog.
[lprent: Provided people follow the rules, I really don’t care anymore than I do for what looks like similar opinions from a different angle from you. It can stay in the OpenMike, not spill into the other topics, not deteriorate into simple flames, and people will avoid or read as they prefer.
Besides, right or wrong, some of the discussion has actually been interesting to me – but probably not in a way that either ‘side’ would find interesting.
Ultimately the decision about ‘odious’ etc lies completely with the moderators, and we’re pretty jealous about it and do not respond well to people explicitly or implicitly telling us what we should do. So I’d suggest not going too far down this path or I might make a determination about what I find odious. People seldom enjoy that. ]
Both would be excellent electorale MPs .
Jacinda Ardern is a highly intelligent young lady ,with a most pleasing personality,.what is more she is the Chairperson of the Youth Branch of Socialist International meaning that her political education is of the highest standard. This, plus she has proved to be a most hard working list MP. making her an excellent choice for the people of Auckland Central. Having meet her on a number of occasions I can truthfully say she has impressd me with not only her intelllegence but her obvious commitment to caring Social Democratic ideals. If Jacinda Ardern is selected then I urge all Auckland Central Voters to get out and vote for an MP who would serve you well.
Bye the way I have been a member of the NZLP for nearly 50 years and before that a member of the Labour Party UK. I have meet many MPs and would be MPs this young lady does impress me..
[lprent: Why is that a big story? Oh because you think so, and what qualifications do you have to be able to understand anything that is in those e-mails? Nothing?
Probably why there hasn’t been much here about this. But I can imagine that the illiterate CCD’s are jerking off to it elsewhere.
Why don’t you do something useful – read RealClimate on the subject. ]
Mentioned in yesterdays open mike thread, of which to add to the mocking of Andrei, here’s a lovely deconstruction of CCD bs on the leaks from greenfyre: Climate change Deniers hoax themselves again.
And yes, when one is vexed and annoyed by morons, it’s rather human to morbidly laugh at their demise, whether it be via death or banhammer.
While I love a good argument and have somewhat fixed views,I have never in my life wished someone dead,even though at times I tell them to FRO and leave me alone.They just have different views thats all.
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The tighter sanctions are modelled on ones used in Britain, which did push people off ‘the dole’, but didn’t increase the number of workers, and which evidence has repeatedly shown don’t work. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, ...
Catching you up on the morning’s global news and a quick look at the parallels -GLOBALTariffs are backSharemarkets in the US, UK and Europe have “plunged” in response to Trump’s tariffs. And while Mexico has won a one month reprieve, Canada and China will see their respective 25% and 10% ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission. Gondolas are often in the news, with manufacturers of ropeway systems proposing them as a modern option for mass transit systems in New Zealand. However, like every next big thing in transport, it’s hard ...
This is a re-post from The Climate BrinkBoth 2023 and 2024 were exceptionally warm years, at just below and above 1.5C relative to preindustrial in the WMO composite of surface temperature records, respectively. While we are still working to assess the full set of drivers of this warmth, it is clear that ...
Hi,I woke up feeling nervous this morning, realising that this weekend Flightless Bird is going to do it’s first ever live show. We’re heading to a sold out (!) show in Seattle to test the format out in front of an audience. If it works, we’ll do more. I want ...
From the United-For-Now States of America comes the thrilling news that a New Zealander may be at the very heart of the current coup. Punching above our weight on the world stage once more! Wait, you may be asking, what New Zealander? I speak of Peter Thiel, made street legal ...
Even Stevens: Over the 33 years between 1990 and 2023 (and allowing for the aberrant 2020 result) the average level of support enjoyed by the Left and Right blocs, at roughly 44.5 percent each, turns out to be, as near as dammit, identical.WORLDWIDE, THE PARTIES of the Left are presented ...
Back in 2023, a "prominent political figure" went on trial for historic sex offences. But we weren't allowed to know who they were or what political party they were "prominent" in, because it might affect the way we voted. At the time, I said that this was untenable; it was ...
I'm going, I'm goingWhere the water tastes like wineI'm going where the water tastes like wineWe can jump in the waterStay drunk all the timeI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayAll this fussing and fighting, man, you know I sure ...
Waitangi Day is a time to honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi and stand together for a just and fair Aotearoa. Across the motu, communities are gathering to reflect, kōrero, and take action for a future built on equity and tino rangatiratanga. From dawn ceremonies to whānau-friendly events, there are ...
Subscribe to Mountain Tūī ! Where you too can learn about exciting things from a flying bird! Tweet.Yes - I absolutely suck at marketing. It’s a fact.But first -My question to all readers is:How should I set up the Substack model?It’s been something I’ve been meaning to ask since November ...
Here’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s political economy on politics and in the week to Feb 3:PM Christopher Luxon began 2025’s first day of Parliament last Tuesday by carrying on where left off in 2024, letting National’s junior coalition partner set the political agenda and dragging ...
The PSA have released a survey of 4000 public service workers showing that budget cuts are taking a toll on the wellbeing of public servants and risking the delivery of essential services to New Zealanders. Economists predict that figures released this week will show continued increases in unemployment, potentially reaching ...
The Prime Minister’s speech 10 days or so ago kicked off a flurry of commentary. No one much anywhere near the mainstream (ie excluding Greens supporters) questioned the rhetoric. New Zealand has done woefully poorly on productivity for a long time and we really need better outcomes, and the sorts ...
President Trump on the day he announced tariffs against Mexico, Canada and China, unleashing a shock to supply chains globally that is expected to slow economic growth and increase inflation for most large economies. Photo: Getty ImagesLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate ...
Photo by Towfiqu barbhuiya on UnsplashHere’s what we’re watching in the week to February 9 and beyond in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty:Monday, February 3Politics: New Zealand Government cabinet meeting usually held early afternoon with post-cabinet news conference possible at 4 pm, although they have not been ...
Trump being Trump, it won’t come as a shock to find that he regards a strong US currency (bolstered by high tariffs on everything made by foreigners) as a sign of America’s virility, and its ability to kick sand in the face of the world. Reality is a tad more ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Children’s Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her government’s terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers – temporarily. ...
It is the first week of David Seymour’s school lunch programme and already social media reports are circulating of revolting meals, late deliveries, and mislabelled packaging. ...
The Green Party says that with no-cause evictions returning from today, the move to allow landlords to end tenancies without reason plunges renters, and particularly families who rent, into insecurity and stress. ...
The Government’s move to increase speed limits substantially on dozens of stretches of rural and often undivided highways will result in more serious harm. ...
In her first announcement as Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis chose to loosen restrictions for digital nomads from other countries, rather than focus on everyday Kiwis. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
As schools start back for 2025, there will be a relentless focus on teaching the basics brilliantly so all Kiwi kids grow up with the knowledge, skills and competencies needed to grow the New Zealand of the future, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “A world-leading education system is a key ...
Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson have welcomed Kāinga Ora’s decision to re-open its tender for carpets to allow wool carpet suppliers to bid. “In 2024 Kāinga Ora issued requests for tender (RFTs) seeking bids from suppliers to carpet their properties,” Mr Bishop says. “As part ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. “As schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
Minister for Children Karen Chhour has intervened in Oranga Tamariki’s review of social service provider contracts to ensure Barnardos can continue to deliver its 0800 What’s Up hotline. “When I found out about the potential impact to this service, I asked Oranga Tamariki for an explanation. Based on the information ...
A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. “The Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. “December 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Reversals to Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions begin tonight and will be in place by 1 July, says Minister of Transport Chris Bishop. “The previous government was obsessed with slowing New Zealanders down by imposing illogical and untargeted speed limit reductions on state highways and local roads. “National campaigned on ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has announced Budget 2025 – the Growth Budget - will be delivered on Thursday 22 May. “This year’s Budget will drive forward the Government’s plan to grow our economy to improve the incomes of New Zealanders now and in the years ahead. “Budget 2025 will build ...
For the Government, 2025 will bring a relentless focus on unleashing the growth we need to lift incomes, strengthen local businesses and create opportunity. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today laid out the Government’s growth agenda in his Statement to Parliament. “Just over a year ago this Government was elected by ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour welcomes students back to school with a call to raise attendance from last year. “The Government encourages all students to attend school every day because there is a clear connection between being present at school and setting yourself up for a bright future,” says Mr ...
The Government is relaxing visitor visa requirements to allow tourists to work remotely while visiting New Zealand, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford and Tourism Minister Louise Upston say. “The change is part of the Government’s plan to unlock New Zealand’s potential by shifting the country onto ...
The opening of Kāinga Ora’s development of 134 homes in Epuni, Lower Hutt will provide much-needed social housing for Hutt families, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I’ve been a strong advocate for social housing on Kāinga Ora’s Epuni site ever since the old earthquake-prone housing was demolished in 2015. I ...
Trade and Investment Minister Todd McClay will travel to Australia today for meetings with Australian Trade Minister, Senator Don Farrell, and the Australia New Zealand Leadership Forum (ANZLF). Mr McClay recently hosted Minister Farrell in Rotorua for the annual Closer Economic Relations (CER) Trade Ministers’ meeting, where ANZLF presented on ...
A new monthly podiatry clinic has been launched today in Wairoa and will bring a much-needed service closer to home for the Wairoa community, Health Minister Simeon Brown says.“Health New Zealand has been successful in securing a podiatrist until the end of June this year to meet the needs of ...
The Judicial Conduct Commissioner has recommended a Judicial Conduct Panel be established to inquire into and report on the alleged conduct of acting District Court Judge Ema Aitken in an incident last November, Attorney-General Judith Collins said today. “I referred the matter of Judge Aitken’s alleged conduct during an incident ...
Students who need extra help with maths are set to benefit from a targeted acceleration programme that will give them more confidence in the classroom, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Last year, significant numbers of students did not meet the foundational literacy and numeracy level required to gain NCEA. To ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced three new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and ...
Ki te kahore he whakakitenga, ka ngaro te Iwi – without a vision, the people will perish. The Government has achieved its target to reduce the number of households in emergency housing motels by 75 per cent five years early, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The number of households ...
The opening of Palmerston North’s biggest social housing development will have a significant impact for whānau in need of safe, warm, dry housing, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The minister visited the development today at North Street where a total of 50 two, three, and four-bedroom homes plus a ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced the new membership of the Public Advisory Committee on Disarmament and Arms Control (PACDAC), who will serve for a three-year term. “The Committee brings together wide-ranging expertise relevant to disarmament. We have made six new appointments to the Committee and reappointed two existing members ...
Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. It’s so great to be here and I’m ready and pumped for 2025. Can I start by acknowledging: Simon Bridges – CEO of the Auckland ...
The Government has unveiled a bold new initiative to position New Zealand as a premier destination for foreign direct investment (FDI) that will create higher paying jobs and grow the economy. “Invest New Zealand will streamline the investment process and provide tailored support to foreign investors, to increase capital investment ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced the largest reset of the New Zealand science system in more than 30 years with reforms which will boost the economy and benefit the sector. “The reforms will maximise the value of the $1.2 billion in government funding that goes into ...
Turbocharging New Zealand’s economic growth is the key to brighter days ahead for all Kiwis, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. In the Prime Minister’s State of the Nation Speech in Auckland today, Christopher Luxon laid out the path to the prosperity that will affect all aspects of New Zealanders’ lives. ...
The latest set of accounts show the Government has successfully checked the runaway growth of public spending, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. “In the previous government’s final five months in office, public spending was almost 10 per cent higher than for the same period the previous year. “That is completely ...
The Government’s welfare reforms are delivering results with the number of people moving off benefits into work increasing year-on-year for six straight months. “There are positive signs that our welfare reset and the return consequences for job seekers who don't fulfil their obligations to prepare for or find a job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kirsten Banks, Lecturer, School of Science, Computing and Engineering Technologies, Swinburne University of Technology Debris on the surface of Mars from the Perseverance mission, captured on April 19 2022. NASA/JPL-Caltech In his inauguration speech in January, United States President Donald Trump ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alix Woolard, Senior Research Fellow, The Kids Research Institute Australia Stock Unit/Shutterstock Have you ever asked someone how their day was, or been chatting casually with a friend, only to have them tell you a horrific story that has left you ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Quentin Grafton, Australian Laureate Professor of Economics, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The Roper RiverChris Ison/Shutterstock Water is now a contested resource around the world. Nowhere is this more evident than in the fight playing out over the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Graeme Turner, Emeritus Professor of Cultural Studies, The University of Queensland Matej Kastellic/ Shutterstock As we head towards the federal election, both sides of politics are making a point of criticising universities and questioning their role in the community. ...
Alex Casey examines the perils of having your period at a music festival. It was right after Clairo’s swooning set that Sarah* knew it was time. She was on the second day of her period at Auckland’s Laneway festival, and braved the portaloos to empty her menstrual cup and change ...
A battle between health officials and local councils is heating up, as one government party seeks to change the rules. The Bulletin’s Stewart Sowman-Lund explains. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
A global consultancy will lead the government's review of electricity markets, with a local firm offering advice and two groups of experts providing quality assurance. ...
New Public Service Minister Judith Collins is calling for a culture of saying 'yes', but being honest enough with ministers to "reconcile the vision with reality". ...
The future of nearly a third of all huts and tracks managed by the Department of Conservation is in limbo, as the agency faces a 30 percent shortfall in funding to maintain them. ...
Today I’ve had a bit on. I’m living in a 23.4 metre tug off the coast of Samoa and have been for a few weeks now. I’m on a top-secret mission to help save the planet from another potential environmental disaster.I’m currently tasked with looking out the window and making ...
The ‘loneliness epidemic’ is apparently spreading around the world, but what does it look like here in New Zealand? Rachel Judkins reports. It’s a beautiful summer evening in Cornwall Park, with families scattered on the grass and a live band playing a backing track to their laughter. Sprawled on a ...
The Act leader gets a telling-off from the principal and prime minister Christopher Luxon loses his cool in a heated question time. Echo Chamber is The Spinoff’s dispatch from the press gallery, recapping sessions in the House. Columns are written by politics reporter Lyric Waiwiri-Smith and Wellington editor Joel MacManus. ...
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Opinion: It was the 10th anniversary of UNESCO’s International Day of Women and Girls in Science this week, the theme being ‘Unpacking STEM Careers: Her Voice in Science’. It is 2025, but we still need a lot more of her voices in science.In New Zealand, a 2021 survey found that ...
NewsroomBy Dr Jennifer Kruger and Dr Kelly Burrowes
A Government proposal to axe the only two jobs in New Zealand’s health sector of people who were working on a national strategy for palliative care has angered those in the sector, which is already under immense strain.It’s put another wedge between those who want terminally ill patients to live ...
The High Court isn’t the appropriate place to solve a South Island iwi’s claims over freshwater, the Crown says.Ngāi Tahu leaders, and the collective Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, are taking legal action against the Attorney-General, demanding to be involved in decision-making over freshwater. Iwi want the Crown to recognise ...
COMMENTARY:By Sawsan Madina I watched US President Donald Trump’s joint press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last week in utter disbelief. Not that the idea, or indeed the practice, of ethnic cleansing of Palestine is new. But at that press conference the mask has fallen. Recently, fascism ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will on Wednesday announce it is willing, as a last resort, to purchase the collapsed Rex Airlines, in its latest bid to prop up aviation services to regional and remote areas. As ...
Jotham Napat has been elected as the new prime minister of Vanuatu. Napat was elected unopposed in Port Vila today, receiving 50 votes with two void votes. He is the country’s fifth prime minister in four years and will lead a coalition government made up of five political parties — ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By A J Brown, Professor of Public Policy & Law, Centre for Governance & Public Policy, Griffith University Australia has turned the corner on its decade-long slide on Transparency International’s annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), once again ranking in the top ten least ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Scott French, Senior Lecturer in Economics, UNSW Sydney US President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Anthony Albanese have stated an exemption for Australia from Trump’s executive order placing 25% tariffs on all steel and aluminium imported into the US is “under consideration”. ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon's attempts to turn the tables back on the Opposition at Question Time today went down like a lead balloon, Jo Moir writes. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brenton Griffin, Casual Lecturer and Tutor in History, Indigenous Studies, and Politics, Flinders University American Primeval/Netflix On January 24, leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more commonly known as the Mormon Church, penned a statement condemning the ...
It comes as Whangārei District Council is under fire from the Director General of Health Dr Diana Sarfati after it voted in December against adding fluoridation to the water. ...
Oil + Drugs = 911. Someone, please, tell me it ain’t so.
It aint so
Oil and drugs would be the more menial bonuses.
I’m sure the NWO can get their hands on these goods at anytime.
It is more about ‘control’.
First you install fear into the lives of humans, then (as a humanitarian ruse) beef up the security, while at the same time you ‘prison’ the world population.
I doubt this is a ‘religious’ thing, even though Islamic extremists are involved, but then I can imagine so are the CIA.
The NWO don’t care about religion, they just use it, to trick people (the innocents and also- the foolish that are involved, with the crime itself)
I wonder what possible use Tony Ryall’s public release of DHB league tables could serve?
It wouldn’t be to get us ready for some post 2011 PPP action in our hospitals, surely?
How stupid do they think we are?
So are the people whose jobs entail putting all this information together in these pretty tables – are they ‘bureaucrats’ or a front line service?
Is filling out the paperwork a ‘front line service’ or part of bureaucracy.
Given that publishing the tables will create more of this type of work (more trying to comply = more reporting = more bureaucracy) how can Mr Ryall justify National’s ‘fewer bureaucrats’ billboard?
Oh if only National could string together a sentence like “Fewer bureaucrats”.
I know, the pedant in me couldn’t resist fixing it, hence the quotes… Of course, Labour is to blame for the poor education that lead to National’s atrocious billboard grammar…
The issue around the 9/11 Conspiracy movement that people face is about consistency in using scientific evidence to back up your claims.
If you are going to denounce climate change skeptics like Ian Wishart and Lord Monckton as misrepresenting the science and using dodgy studies to back up their claims you can’t expect to be taken seriously when you then use the same sort of tactics to support claims around the September the 11th attacks.
Mainstream science is solidly behind the official version of how the three WTC buildings collapsed. You might dredge up some largely discredited studies which you might calim suggests otherwise ,however it does not mean the Science is still undecided on this issue.
Given the Science is solidly behind the mainstream version then you should realise how repugnant and ridiculous the implications of the 9/11 Truthers actually are. A massive conspiracy by elements of the US administration which has been phenomenally successful at first pulling it off, and secong keeping it quiet as well as fooling, or controlling the mainstream scientific community.
If you truly believe that then noone is going to take you seriously if you try and push a science based approach to anything ever again.
Like Copernicus, you mean?
Wow! Because Compernicus lived in a time where his writings were subjected to intense scientific peer review and then his ideas were discredited didn’t he?
Oh no wait he didn’t. He lived in a time where the Church decided what made up the world view and his vies forceably supporessed. The scientific method wasn’t yet established and freedom of intellectual thought was not allowed.
Are you implying that we live in a similar time to Compernicus then? If so how can we trust any Science such as what comes through the IPCC?
Scientific method. Like climategate, you mean?
BTW BLiP I am still waiting for you to provide a single piece of evidence that I am a AGW denier.
Are you going to retract this claim?
Hold your breath.
I take it that is a ‘No I can’t find any evidence that you are a AGW denier’?
“Mainstream science is solidly behind the official version of how the three WTC buildings collapsed.”
And the television footage of the planes hitting the building… but hey, why let the truth get in the way of tin foil hat wearing nutters?
You got me very confused Gosman. Are you saying that mainstream science can be trusted on 911 but not on global warming? And that the rest of us are being inconsistent?
No, I am stating that if you argue that the mainstream scientific consensus should be used to determine whether or not AGW is actually happening you make yourself a hypocrite and a laughing stock if you then ignore the same mainstream scientific consensus when it comes to something as controversial as the September the 11th attacks.
Do you not agree with this position quenchino?
You haven’t even begun to demonstrate that “Mainstream science is solidly behind the official version of how the three WTC buildings collapsed.”
If you could, you’d have a point.
But if you could, you would have already done so.
Yesterday RedLogix wasted a lot of time trying to discuss the scientific implications of your assumtions and you did nothing but attack him as a kook, a nutjob, a conspiracy theorist etc.
As you’re not willing to have a science-based discussion it’s very hard to see any point engaging with you on any science-related matters at all.
I’m sure you’ll continue to yell and scream all day today about how everyone who doubts anything you say is insane, a conspiracy theorist or whatever the currently fashionable insult is, but once people realise (and they do seem to have realised) that you’re not really up for a discussion anyway, why would anyone bother?
The only thing of any interest to me is why do you do it? You seem to be starting these threads every day, here and elsewhere. Why would someone devote so much time and energy to what you’re doing, which is essentially the equivalent of standing on a street corner shouting “THERE ARE CRAZY PEOPLE EVERYWHERE!!!”
After a while most of us learn to walk past those people. We’ve seen the movie before. We know how it ends.
Obviously he is part of Bush’s intricate world wide web of deceit designed to cover up what really happened during 9/11. They have been mounting a blog campaign using people who aren’t scientists to discredit other people who aren’t scientists. Its all part of a brilliant bottom up strategy that has kept truther’s on the fringe for the last 8 years.
Oh my god.
(to be read in the voice of Stan Marsh)
LOL
Wait till you find out the rescission is actually Bush’s creation designed to discredit Obama thereby ensuring black presidents all over the world are ousted and replaced by Bush clones created in a secret lab that was UNDER THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DUM DUM DUM
I believe I have provided a number of links and made references to Scientific critiques of the 9/11 Truthers claims as well as the actual NIST reports, ( which is the most comprehensive scientific evaluation of the structural failings of the three WTC buildings to date). If you have chosen not to read these articles then that is your problem.
As for your claim I have started the debate take a look at how the debate developed here. It was Travellerev and RedLogix who broutght this topic up on yesterday’s Openmike, not myself. I in fact did not respond until well after the discussion had been going for quite a number of hours.
If you don’t want people responding to controversial topics like this then perhaps you should ask people not to raise them.
Oh come on Gosman, this “anti-troofer” stuff is your favourite little personal crusade at the moment. You’re all over the blogs doing the same thing.
I just don’t know why you give a shit.
I’m highlighting a huge double standard when it comes to the use of Scientific evidence to support one’s position.
I find it morrally reprehensible that someone like Ms Fitzsimons of the Greens can claim to be promoting the Scientific mainstream view when it comes to AGW, (something I have no problem with BTW in case you join BLiP in trying to tar me with the Global Warming denier brush), but she and others completely jettison this sound and logical psoition when it comes to something as odious as the 9/11 Truther movement.
This is a topic that goes beyond a mere Left versus Right argument. You are either supportive of the Scientific method or you are like the looney radicals of the Anti-AGW and 9/11 Truther movement and cheery pick bad science to support your viewpoint.
I notice you have not disagreed recently with my asertion that the Science behind the claims made by Richard Gage and his ilk are seriously flawed. Does that now mean you can agree with me that supporting the aims of his movement and promoting it, as people like Travellerev do here, (without any prompting from me I might add), is deserving of a response?
Recently? I don’t think I ever have.
So what?
You mean like “stomach ulcers are caused by stress” or, perhaps, “smoking increases your lung capacity” ?
This in no way changes his point. You have people on one hand claiming that the accepted scientific opinion is that Global warming is real (which I agree with) so the minority of scientists who claim it isn’t are crazy. Then on the other hand even though the majority of scientific opinion is that 9/11 was carried out by terrorists doesn’t mean that the few scientists who claim it wasn’t are crazy.
To argue one then the other leaves you in a position where you seem to be someone who isn’t really interested in the science but someone who is interested in finding science that meets your needs.
“Then on the other hand even though the majority of scientific opinion is that 9/11 was carried out by terrorists”
I’m not convinced that this is a ‘scientific’ question in the same way that AGW is. Sure, science is involved but it’s not like there is a broadly accepted theory that when buildings collapse it’s because of terrorism and that truthers are denying the theory of terrorism.
We are talking about one data point, unrelated to any controversial theory.
Quite incorrect.
Both sides of the 9/11 debate claim they have the weight of scientific literature behind them.
The Truthers largely rely on the some misrepresentations on the Physics of Structural engineering and how free standing builds collapse plus a couple of incredibly dodgy studies by some Conspiracy Theorists ‘Scientists’ which supposedly show that Active Thermite particles were found in the debris.
The otherside of the debate relies on the very detail official scientific investigation by NIST, amongst others. This is generally accepted as the Mainstream view. On top of that there is the huge number of people out there that pull apart the 9/11 truthers so called Scientific studies.
This is firstly a simple case of where you are either for the Mainstream scientific view or against it. Whether you believe the particular theory that supports this comes after that.
“Both sides of the 9/11 debate claim they have the weight of scientific literature behind them.”
Bully for both of them. They can claim what they like as far as I’m concerned.
I’m just saying that it’s not even remotely like AGW, no matter how useful you find the comparison, rhetorically speaking.
I understand exactly what you are saying. However, it seems to me a bit of an apples/oranges fallacy. Unlike climate science, the 911 situation has only, about, half a dozen questions which need to be answered to reach a definitive conclusion.
There are a plethora of other questions surrounding motive and means which I would also like answered, but the science itself can be solved easily.
That’s a fair argument to make. The way I see it is there are motives for both sides. I however think that the conspiracy option is far harder to swallow. Bush was dumb and ignorant, but it’s a big step to sign off on faking the greatest terrorist attack on US soil. However I have no doubt that there are terrorist organizations out there who would want to make an impact such as this.
Just seems a bit far fetched to me.
Here is a link to a detailed analysis of the Controlled demolition theory. It is apparently written from someone who is opposed to the UK and US foreign policy decisions in the wake of September the 11th. So it just goes to show that you can still be a good left winger and support the official position on this subject.
http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/king911.htm#_Toc144445999
You love those modifiers. I note that the NIST report has been updated several times since the piece you link to was written.
So does that mean the NIST report or this analysis is flawed in any way BLiP?
Shall we take a look at the so called scientific studies that people like Richard Gage rely on to promote their odious conspiracy Theory?
Take Steven Jones’ study which supposedly ‘proves’ that Active Thermite was present in the dust particles. This site takes apart his study http://ae911truth.info/tiki-index.php?page=Steven+Jones
I especially like this bit about the Journal of 9/11 studies, where many of the studies supporting the Conspiracy Theories are published –
“However, it has been quite obvious from the very beginning, that most of the so-called peer-reviewers are none other than other members of the same organization. In other words, they are peer-reviewing each others’ papers.”
If this was an Anti-AGW organisation people would be all over this.
Face facts – the Science behind the 9/11 Truther movement is seriously flawed not to mention the bizarre implications of what they claim.
In that case, you can have no objection to the “truthers” being made to look like they fools they are at an open, independent investigation before the world’s media?
.
That would be about as productive as David Bain’s retrial. A bunch of people with preconceived opinions deciding on a topic that was already judged by those who went into it with an open mind.
There already has been an investigation into what happened on September 11th 2001. In fact there are three separate official investigations. Just because the Truthers don’t like the outcome doesn’t mean that they should be humoured.
Also what new evidence is meant to be investigated? That Active Thermite was present in the debris? I have shown that the studies which suggest that are seriously flawed as well as being promoted by people with a particular agenda i.e. not independent Scientists. Perhaps it is that Controlled demolitions are the only way to explain how the three buildings fell? Didn’t the NIST report deal with this?
What new scientific evidence that is credible is going to be investigated BLiP?
Yes it would be. There are significant parallels.
Once again BLiP – What new credible scientific evidence is being presented that would justify a new investigation?
Just because Richard Gage and his band of nutjob Conspiracy Theorists jump up and down and quote copious amounts of bad science to support their claims doesn’t mean they deserve a hearing.
There are people out there who think the Moon landing was staged – Do they deserve an investigation as well?
To be perfectly honest, what does it matter these days?
The towers fell down and a whole bunch of war was made because of it. There is no way to take back that day or the years that have passed inbetween or the people killed in the fighting. It is wasted breath on both sides – be a 911 Truther and conspiracy theorist or just accept the official story, at the end of the day it just doesn’t matter at all.
So you think the 9/11 Truthers are wasting their time trying to reopen the investigation then Zorr?
A look at the NIST website is interesting, but their investigation of 911 is hard to compare with the IPCC AGW science. The biggest difference is the much smaller number of scientists named and the fact that almost no-one got to see or study any of the original building wreckage.
One report, even if it is a very thick one, from one group, that has not been subject to open review with all the source data is not the same as a consensus. 911 was a single event, and all the original evidence is now long gone, so it makes it very hard for anyone to prove anything that disagrees with NIST.
It’s a bit like someone wanting to discuss or challenge the claims of pro-global warming scientists, but none the temperature records being available to look at because they were destroyed years ago. No-one would be very satisfied with that.
Two different things however. Climate change is constantly happening allowing for constant collection of data that is available to anyone who wishes to use it. The 9/11 attacks were a single incident. Data was collected and analyzed by experts who came up with the final NIST report. The data they used for that incident is available to those who claim it was a conspiracy. They choose to cherry pick it and supplement their evidence with poor quality video and unsubstantiated eyewitness evidence and ignore any data which is counter to the findings the want. Just like any good conspiracy.
Here’s a page with a link to a peer reviewed scientific journal article on 9/11:
As much as the truthers like Redlogix want to claim that science is on their side they are wrong.
I am not sure if this is the right way to go about things, but I want to ask a question of someone who has better knowledge of economics than I have: In the business pages of this morning’s Herald, there was a claim from treasury that we need to cut government spending if we are to “close the gap” with Australia. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10610950
I am inclined to think that if it is true that the Australian Government spends a smaller portion of it GDP on welfare, etc, this is in part because Australian wages are not so far removed from what it costs to live. So they do not go so far in using welfare to bridge the gap between the fantasy of wealth and the reality of stagnation. Hence I am inclined to see treasury’s claim as getting things the wrong way round – that in reality Australia is not doing comparatively well because of less government spending, but rather their government needs to spend less because Australia is doing comparatively well. Am I wrong about this?
Key to meet the Queen. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3089023/John-Key-to-meet-the-Queen
It’s all about him of course…
“I think I am the first leader seeing the Queen, and I am doing the toast for the Queen as well,” Mr Key said on TVNZ’s Breakfast programme this morning.
“I must be teacher’s pet. I think it was something to do with bringing back the knighthoods.”
Titular honours were abolished by the Labour-led government in 1999, but Mr Key reinstated them.
A spokeswoman for Mr Key said he was invited to make the toast at the Friday dinner hosted by the Queen – it is an honour given to the most recently-elected country leader.”
Pussy Nat, pussy Nat, where have you been?
I’ve been to London to visit the Queen
Pussy Nat, pussy Nat, what did you there?
I prostrated myself, in front of her chair
Pussy Nat, pussy Nat, why did you bother?
So I’d get the knighthood, instead of another!
Gold!! 🙂
Well said!
I was under the illusion that NOT all titular honours were eliminated in 1999. Did not parliament still keep their own e.g Honerable etc?
I’ll give it a go, Olwyn.
First up, Treasury are a bunch of dry right fossils whose default position on any given subject is ‘reduce government spending’.
Secondly, Australia has an extra level of government and taxation that we don’t; the states and territories. So I suspect they have more ‘government’ than we do. The country is significantly wealthier than NZ, both because of the raw materials boom and the scale factors between the two economies.
Australia collects more PAYE than we do, because more of them are in jobs (on average) than us and those jobs are better paid than us (by 25-30% apparently), so there is more tax money to be distributed.
All in all, I’d say the Treasury quote was the usual bollocks and your estimation of the situation is spot on.
Thanks for that, Voice of Reason.
Thanks for that VTR – Treasury would have required six months research and a big budget to come up with that summation (which they wouldn’t of course).
I wonder if we can pare Treasury’s costs down, sort of like politicians are now – they could pay for their own extravagant gear, furnishings etc. I think one of their executive ilk had his (her) desk imported from Italy in the free-market feeding frenzy around 1990.
A practical way of ending the comments on this subject is to stop replying, the topic will decline like a pricked waterbed.
I am referring to 9/11 debate.
Your suggestion should really be towards those like Travellerev who continue to post her odious and repugnant Conspiracy Theories on this blog.
[lprent: Provided people follow the rules, I really don’t care anymore than I do for what looks like similar opinions from a different angle from you. It can stay in the OpenMike, not spill into the other topics, not deteriorate into simple flames, and people will avoid or read as they prefer.
Besides, right or wrong, some of the discussion has actually been interesting to me – but probably not in a way that either ‘side’ would find interesting.
Ultimately the decision about ‘odious’ etc lies completely with the moderators, and we’re pretty jealous about it and do not respond well to people explicitly or implicitly telling us what we should do. So I’d suggest not going too far down this path or I might make a determination about what I find odious. People seldom enjoy that. ]
Are you saying that if she stops commenting, you’ll go away?
Is that blackmail?
So any thoughts towards Twyford likely to stand for Waitakere and Ardern standing for Auckland Central?
New right wing New Zealand capitalist blog involved in “comments for chocolate scandal” learn more at:
http://www.democracymum.co.nz
Both would be excellent electorale MPs .
Jacinda Ardern is a highly intelligent young lady ,with a most pleasing personality,.what is more she is the Chairperson of the Youth Branch of Socialist International meaning that her political education is of the highest standard. This, plus she has proved to be a most hard working list MP. making her an excellent choice for the people of Auckland Central. Having meet her on a number of occasions I can truthfully say she has impressd me with not only her intelllegence but her obvious commitment to caring Social Democratic ideals. If Jacinda Ardern is selected then I urge all Auckland Central Voters to get out and vote for an MP who would serve you well.
Bye the way I have been a member of the NZLP for nearly 50 years and before that a member of the Labour Party UK. I have meet many MPs and would be MPs this young lady does impress me..
Hi
No one here has mentioned the big story of today.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26386792-401,00.html
[lprent: Why is that a big story? Oh because you think so, and what qualifications do you have to be able to understand anything that is in those e-mails? Nothing?
Probably why there hasn’t been much here about this. But I can imagine that the illiterate CCD’s are jerking off to it elsewhere.
Why don’t you do something useful – read RealClimate on the subject. ]
Mentioned in yesterdays open mike thread, of which to add to the mocking of Andrei, here’s a lovely deconstruction of CCD bs on the leaks from greenfyre:
Climate change Deniers hoax themselves again.
And yes, when one is vexed and annoyed by morons, it’s rather human to morbidly laugh at their demise, whether it be via death or banhammer.
We will see i guess?.Soon I would think!
While I love a good argument and have somewhat fixed views,I have never in my life wished someone dead,even though at times I tell them to FRO and leave me alone.They just have different views thats all.