Open Mike 24/03/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 24th, 2018 - 167 comments
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167 comments on “Open Mike 24/03/2018 ”

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  1. kushal kumar 1
    24 March 2018 at 3:53 am

    News reports appearing for some months past since January 2018 , have indicated thinking of the US trade with rest of the world , more so with China. A news report which appeared on 20 January , 2018 , had said : -“ It seems that the US erred in supporting China’s entry into the WTO on terms that have proven to be ineffective in securing China’s embrace of an open , market-oriented trade regime”. Later , on 24 February , 2018 , news reports from the US had also said : “ While ties have improved but China is killing US on trade”. These perceptions in the US these days has culminated into announcement of Donald Trump on 22 March , 2018 , imposing tariff on about US 50 billion dollars in Chinese imports to retaliate against the alleged theft of American intellectual property.
    These happenings on the eve and during mid- March 2018 , look to be corresponding to one of predictions of this Vedic astrology writer on 11 October 2017 in article – “ Astrological probable alerts for the United States in 2018” – published last year in monthly Webzine of Wisdom Magazine from US at wisdom-magazine.com/Article.aspx/4647/ on 1 December 2017. The related text in the said article reads as :- “ Near mid- March to 30 April 2018. US economy looks to be presenting a happy picture while some kind of hidden or behind the scene areas of substantial concern may remain. PAST ERRORS OR SLIPS ARE LIKELY TO IMPACT TRADING OR COMMERCIAL ASPECTS IN SOME WAY”.
    Thus , it can be said that the alert prediction of this writer substantially prior on 11 October , 2017 , has been confirmed precisely and closely accurate during beginning of 2018 , more so 22 March , 2018.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  2. Keepcalmcarryon 2
    24 March 2018 at 8:19 am

    Sarkozy receives money from Libya and its corruption. Nats receive money from Chinese interests , ex National MPs have ties and postings to Chinese interests and we are the least corrupt nation on earth.
    Howzat work?

    • savenz 2.1
      24 March 2018 at 8:34 am

      Because the corruption index is a self indicating survey. Essentially is seems to be based on how people ‘feel’ their corruption levels are. Clearly our MSM never reports a thing because the royals, car crashes and kitten stories are more important news, so most people are not even aware what is going on.

    • Naki man 2.2
      24 March 2018 at 11:00 am

      Why do you assume all Chinese business people are corrupt?
      You sound like a racist.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1
        24 March 2018 at 12:09 pm

        Actually, the implication was that the National Party were corrupt because they take foreign money.

        All foreign money needs to be removed from NZ politics and that includes the cushy positions after politics.

        • JohnSelway 2.2.1.1
          24 March 2018 at 12:31 pm

          Why can’t people take whatever job they are offered after their political career?

          • Keepcalmcarryon 2.2.1.1.1
            24 March 2018 at 1:32 pm

            Because behind Chinese business is Chinese government.
            In case it needs spelling out, having ties to a foreign government while in power is considered corruption in most countries.

            • JohnSelway 2.2.1.1.1.1
              24 March 2018 at 1:40 pm

              Yes I agree with having business ties with a foreign government while in power is a little shady to put it lightly but Draco said “after” politics, not while in politics

              • Keepcalmcarryon …
                24 March 2018 at 1:48 pm

                From whence came the business ties such that on finishing as an MP, someone goes straight to work for a Chinese company?
                What about Collins the minister for Oravida?
                A Chinese spy National MP?
                You actually wilfully have to shut your eyes and block your ears not to see an issue.

                • JohnSelway …
                  24 March 2018 at 1:51 pm

                  Well what jobs are ex-MP’s allowed to take then?

                  • Keepcalmcarryon …
                    24 March 2018 at 1:54 pm

                    Teachers, police, rest home workers, builders, restaraunt workers, fruit pickers, dairy farm workers.
                    There is a shortage.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      24 March 2018 at 1:55 pm

                      So Russell Norman shouldn’t have been allowed to be the Director of Greenpeace NZ?

                    • Keepcalmcarryon …
                      24 March 2018 at 1:58 pm

                      I wasn’t aware Greenpeace had ties to the Chinese government.
                      Citation needed.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      24 March 2018 at 2:02 pm

                      I’m not talking about the Chinese government. You said ex-MP’s should have jobs like “Teachers, police, rest home workers, builders, restaraunt workers, fruit pickers, dairy farm workers.” so I am asking you if Russell Norman’s post at Greenpeace was acceptable to you given what you stated.

                    • Keepcalmcarryon …
                      24 March 2018 at 5:52 pm

                      My word you are hard work, I’m going to give the benefit if the doubt that it’s not intentional:
                      I’m fine with Russel Norman joining Greenpeace thanks for asking.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      24 March 2018 at 6:12 pm

                      Given I wasn’t actually addressing you from the start I’m not surprised you are having difficulty.

                      I was wondering what Draco thought politicians should be doing after politics given he seems to have an issue with it

                    • Keepcalmcarryon …
                      24 March 2018 at 6:18 pm

                      You asked me about Russel Norman. But yes off you go to shadow Draco around the internet some more, it’s been real

                    • JohnSelway …
                      24 March 2018 at 6:23 pm

                      Will do, cheers

                    • savenz …
                      24 March 2018 at 9:52 pm

                      Brownlee was a woodwork teacher. Now he’s the ‘architect’ of Chch. Maybe we would all have been better off, if he had stuck to teaching woodwork and why there is a shortage.

                    • OncewasTim []
                      25 March 2018 at 12:41 am

                      In his yoof, i suspect brownlee mught have smoked a few too many of those dovetail joints, and given himself a permanent case of the munchies.
                      You’re lucky you never had to catch one of those aircraft we used to call ‘pencil planes’ with him.
                      Brownlee has always needed some serious rebalanxing

                  • Sabine …
                    24 March 2018 at 8:00 pm

                    voluntary fire fighters, we have a shortage of them especially in places where we also have rampant housing insecurity.
                    voluntary ambulance driver, we have a shortage of them, again especially in places where we also have rampant housing insecurity.
                    cafe managers, i hear we have such a shortage that we must import them from elsewhere.
                    fruit picker, also a severe shortage here according to the businesses.

                    Surely there are more then enough jobs out there in our Rock Star Economy.

                    Oh, that was a myth you say? Just like the housing crisis is a myth? Just like the wading in a river is a myth?

                    Maybe they should try to file for an unemployment benefit? 🙂

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1.2
            24 March 2018 at 7:05 pm

            “trading on their time as MPs to build a lucrative business career”

            Simon Lusk.

            In other words, the National Party is adept at post-hoc bribery.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1.3
            24 March 2018 at 10:47 pm

            The revolving door of politics to private sector look s remarkably like corruption. Best to prevent it in the first place.

            • JohnSelway 2.2.1.1.3.1
              24 March 2018 at 11:07 pm

              I agree in some circumstances but not all.
              John Key went to ANZ but then again he spent his entire life outside of politics as a banker so not surprising he went back into it. Russell Norman went to Greenpeace but he has a track record of being very involved in Environmental Issues so again not surprising.

              There is a difference between “leaving politics and picking up where you left off” and “becoming a lobbyist” which can be very shady indeed.

              What are MP’s supposed to do when they leave? Never work again? Stay in politics for life?

              • Draco T Bastard …
                25 March 2018 at 12:45 pm

                John Key went to ANZ but then again he spent his entire life outside of politics as a banker so not surprising he went back into it.

                You do know that hes was a member of the board of the NY Reserve right? And that’s more of a political position than an expert position?

                There is a difference between “leaving politics and picking up where you left off” and “becoming a lobbyist” which can be very shady indeed.

                Depends upon where you left off and where you went back. If both have connection to politics then we can honestly say that it’s just going back to what they were doing?

                What are MP’s supposed to do when they leave? Never work again? Stay in politics for life?

                Many do stay in politics for life. Many could go into a public service role like Russel Norman.

                What we don’t want is them going into high paid, high power private sector roles that are pretty much designed around their political careers.

                EDIT: BTW, is there really two JohnSelways or do you just keep changing email addresses?

            • JohnSelway 2.2.1.1.3.2
              24 March 2018 at 11:09 pm

              Sure but there is a difference between “going into the private sector” and “becoming a lobbyist” (for example).

              I mean – Key spent most of life as a banker and left politics when he was quite young so became a banker again. Norman is heavily involved in environmental issues so went to Greenpeace. They gotta do something and generally end up doing what they did before becoming MP’s

              What are MP’s supposed to do when they leave politics? Never work again? Stay MP’s for life?

        • cleangreen 2.2.1.2
          24 March 2018 at 4:17 pm

          100% Draco T Bastard.

          We need to print some just to repair our rotting infrastructure now as we cant afford to borrow any more from overseas at 8% plus from a communist country anyway.

          Else we will become another Greece that is owned by EU oligarchs now.

          I don’t want to see that happen.

        • Babayaga 2.2.1.3
          24 March 2018 at 7:44 pm

          “All foreign money needs to be removed from NZ politics…”

          Why? Says who? Sounds like xenophobia to me.

          • JohnSelway 2.2.1.3.1
            24 March 2018 at 7:48 pm

            I think all private money in politics is a bad idea. From right and the left.

            Just look at cluster-fucks like Citizens United in the States or, actually, just the states in general. You can pretty much buy your own congressman and write the laws for them

            • Babayaga 2.2.1.3.1.1
              24 March 2018 at 7:54 pm

              What do you think about Parliamentary Services funding an Auckland office for Labour (headed up by Matt McCarten), when that was most likely used for campaigning? Private contributions are made to most, if not all parties in NZ. Long may that be the case.

              • JohnSelway …
                24 March 2018 at 8:03 pm

                Sorry – I don’t know enough about the Matt McCarten thing you speak to make a call on it.

                But too much private money in politics causes way to many conflicts of interest.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.3.2
            24 March 2018 at 7:51 pm

            In the event that Simon Lusk is telling the truth, and National MPs are ‘trading on their time as MPs to build a lucrative business career’, it makes sense to at least limit their criminal behaviour to corruption rather than full-blown treason.

            • Babayaga 2.2.1.3.2.1
              24 March 2018 at 7:57 pm

              Do you have any actual evidence for that, or are you suddenly a convert of Lusk? Mind you, Clark is alleged to have traded her time as PM for a lucrative job with the UN.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                24 March 2018 at 8:04 pm

                In the event that Simon Lusk is telling the truth, and National MPs are ‘trading on their time as MPs to build a lucrative business career’, it makes sense to at least limit their criminal behaviour to corruption rather than full-blown treason.

                Just to see if you can actually stay on topic, Ad Nauseam.

                • Babayaga …
                  24 March 2018 at 8:05 pm

                  So you don’t have any actual evdence.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    24 March 2018 at 8:11 pm

                    Meanwhile, on Earth, Lusk’s statement is evidence. Whether he’s a reliable witness is open to question, but at least you’re reliably witless.

                    • Babayaga …
                      24 March 2018 at 8:12 pm

                      A statement of Simon Lusks opinion is not evidence. But you do believe anything. And I’m not aware of Lusk ever committing benefit fraud.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      24 March 2018 at 8:14 pm

                      Whether he’s a reliable witness is open to question, Ad Nauseam.

            • JohnSelway 2.2.1.3.2.2
              24 March 2018 at 7:58 pm

              It kinda depends on the situation.

              Using your time as an MP to cultivate business links is one thing (I.e – becoming an MP with the sole purpose of landing a highly paid private sector job) but leaving politics and taking a job because it’s in your area of expertise is another (I.e Russell Norman or John Key).

              The former is pretty shady, the latter is just being a private citizen again

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                24 March 2018 at 8:07 pm

                It depends chiefly on the extent and nature of the conflict of interest involved.

          • cleangreen 2.2.1.3.3
            24 March 2018 at 8:01 pm

            At 2.2.1.3 Babayaga

            Fair enough if our “trading partners” would not have printed their own money to buy our assets.

            But did they all not print any money?

            China certainly did as did japan and …………………..

          • savenz 2.2.1.3.4
            24 March 2018 at 9:55 pm

            Well there seems to be a hoo ha over the Russian links in the USA and their President. Nope not following that one, we have enough issues in NZ but most people just ignore them. Not sure an ex Chinese (or Russian) agent would be welcome in the Republican Party like they are in the National party where the MSM says ‘kittens anyone’?

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.3.5
            24 March 2018 at 10:42 pm

            Why?

            Because they’re not NZers and how we govern ourselves is not for them to have a say in.

            • Babayaga 2.2.1.3.5.1
              25 March 2018 at 12:17 pm

              They can’t vote. That’s How we have a say. If they can’t vote, they have no say. If people are stupid enough to be influenced by their money, then they get the government they deserve-of either stripe.

      • Brigid 2.2.2
        24 March 2018 at 12:29 pm

        A Naki man accusing somebody else of racism.
        That’s hilarious.

      • Gabby 2.2.3
        24 March 2018 at 6:08 pm

        Why do you assume all corrupt business people are Chinese, Nastiman?

    • cleangreen 2.3
      24 March 2018 at 3:44 pm

      Howzat work?

      100% @ Answer; – With false reporting with our “junk media” Keepcalmcarryon

  3. veutoviper 3
    24 March 2018 at 8:35 am

    In the middle of the night in a bout of insomnia I came across two posts on yesterday’s Open Mike with three very interesting links to articles well worth reading IMO. They had attracted only one comment, so I thought I would repost them here in the hopes others might see them and check them out. I will post them separately as they cover completely different subjects.

    First thanks to Jilly Bee for this post and link:
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23-03-2018/#comment-1464943

    Very interesting comparing the general wailing and gnashing of molars in Granny by Mike Hosking and Matthew Hooton and then whoosh – a wee gem by ex Nat MP for Whanganui, Chester Borrows headed ‘Politicians bailed Air N Z out – the airline can’t now complain about Shane Jones’. It’s worth a read. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12018271

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      24 March 2018 at 12:22 pm

      So, we should be subsidising people flying out of and into Whanganui?

      • Jilly Bee 3.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 5:27 pm

        Actually Draco, I was simply pointing out the fact that Mike Hosking and Matthew Hooton (both National fanbois extraordinaire) were venting forth in their Herald slots about how bad it is for Shane Jones to be as much as commenting on where Air New Zealand operates domestically and that the airline should only be beholden to its shareholders and the end of year balance sheet with no concern for regional NZ. It was a surprise to me to see Chester Borrow’s column which pretty much agreed with Shane Jones – Chester was until last year the National MP for Whanganui which made it all a bit weird. I suppose it was Granny’s way of trying to look balanced. I have flown some of the secondary routes several years ago in what I called 18 seater flying sardine tins which were OK, but not terribly comfortable – at least we could see the pilots at work!! Bit of a come down from the Boeing 737s on the main routes. It’s interesting to see that the Mayors of the towns and cities concerned are more than happy with Shane’s support. Bring back the DC3s I tells ya.

        • Exkiwiforces 3.1.1.1
          24 March 2018 at 5:49 pm

          Come on Jilly Bee,

          Where’s your sense of adventure? I say bugger the DC3’s and I say bring the back the DH 83 Fox Moths, DH 84’s, 86’s, 89’s and 90’s passenger Biplanes.

          Chocks away Biggles.

          • Jilly Bee 3.1.1.1.1
            24 March 2018 at 5:58 pm

            Blimey Exkiwiforces, I didn’t think of those – must say though that a flight in a biplane is on my bucket list.

            • Exkiwiforces 3.1.1.1.1.1
              24 March 2018 at 6:00 pm

              They are on bucket list as well.

              • patricia bremner …
                24 March 2018 at 7:35 pm

                You should have flown with Fred Ladd as my uncle did. A real character.

                • Exkiwiforces …
                  25 March 2018 at 12:45 am

                  I download the podcasts from the Wings over New Zealand Forum site and I will have to say Dave Homeward has at an outstanding job interviewing some extraordinarily women and gentleman of NZ Aviation History over the years. They worth downloading and like listening to the per WW2, through the War especially the Pacific stuff as I had a great uncle up in the solly’s with 3 NZ Div and post war stuff the Ag Pilots, The Fred Ladd’s and Bryan Cox who I believe this NZ’s remaining Air Ace from WW2 who flew in the Pacific.

                  Reading the Richard Waugh books on West Coast Airways, pre and post war early Airlines. One of course must not forget NAC and what they did to regional NZ from post WW2 until 1978.

                  A blog site call 3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com is worth having a look.

            • JohnSelway 3.1.1.1.1.2
              24 March 2018 at 6:26 pm

              My father used to own a Tiger Moth and I not only got many a flight in one but I was allowed to fly it myself once and did a few aerobatics with one of NZ’s best stunt pilots. It was great fun

            • veutoviper 3.1.1.1.1.3
              24 March 2018 at 7:28 pm

              What a wonderful thread this has ended up being! I am so pleased you put up the link, Jilly Bee. Fox Moths, Tiger Moths, Biplanes, Harvards – those were the days! And Spitfires – I am with you JS. Blimey and Biggles indeed!

              Back to ground, I was initially surprised by Burrows, but then when I remembered his background, it did not surprise me. He has been known to do similar surprising declarations of his views before.

              Sorry Draco T Bastard, your question is a very good and serious one but I have been told off by adam today for putting up two essays – again – in response to assertions by him. Kill ’em by boring them to death, says I.

              And I assure you I can write an essay on the role of national airlines – more like a book. But I am also bound by certain confidentiality agreements that went with my public service employment. So, I must be an observer only on discussion on your question. (Everyone sighs a sigh of relief!)

              Happy Saturday night – over and out.

              • patricia bremner …
                24 March 2018 at 7:40 pm

                Around 1952 for ten shillings I had a flight in a top dressing plane in Bennydale. I’m sorry, don’t know the make, but it made me love adventures.

              • OncewasTim …
                25 March 2018 at 12:50 am

                Golly. Why yes VV.
                A bloody nice thread this is turning out to be.
                It’s certainly got me piqued with a dander on its brink…eh what?

          • JohnSelway 3.1.1.1.2
            24 March 2018 at 6:25 pm

            I must say I so have a fondness for Tiger Moths and Harvards.

            Though I wouldn’t mind flying from Wellington to Auckland in a Spitfire

            • Jilly Bee 3.1.1.1.2.1
              24 March 2018 at 7:43 pm

              Yep, JohnSelway, a flight in a Tiger Moth would be OK for me, though at my age I probably need a wee crane to get me in and out of the cockpit! Also I’d also love to have a ride in a Spitfire (complete with loop the loop and a victory roll). I’m of the age where the Battle of Brittain is still a moment in history for me, we have the DVD of the film in our archives which needs to be dragged out again on a rainy afternoon. I live close to the Waharoa Airfield and we see a great variety of flying machines flying overhead at times, including the odd TMs. We recently had a massive four-engine transporter military style behemoth fly overhead recently and return half an hour later having landed at Waharoa! I came to the conclusion it was a promotion flight by either an Embraer or a Lockheed Martin aircraft to replace the Hercules fleet. Absolutely no publicity about what was happening – which made it a bit scary.

              • JohnSelway …
                24 March 2018 at 7:46 pm

                Spitfires are my all time favourite (all because if that film too – The Battle of Britain)

                • cleangreen …
                  24 March 2018 at 9:26 pm

                  I want to go on Biggles plane ”the halifax” on a trip to the Gobi dessert.

                  “Biggles in the Gobi” was the best of all by Captain WE Johns books I ever read at 11yrs old in 1955. An awesome story.

                  Biggles (a wing commander) having hit an eagle with the Halifax and shot down a MIG fighter plane during the communist war in China.

                  That’s on my bucket for sure.

                  Here is the intro to the amazing book of “action”

                  Biggles is able to return, after shooting down a Mig plane, just as a final battle is taking place at the caves. He is able to rescue everybody and get them away.

                  http://www.biggles.info/Details/46/

                  BIGGLES IN THE GOBI

                  Book First Published on 8th October 1953 – 160 pages

                  This story was first published, in seventeen weekly parts, as BIGGLES IN THE GOBI in The Eagle Volume 4, issue 17 to Volume 4 issue 33, dated 31st July 1953 to 20th November 1953

                  Biggles is asked by Air Commodore Raymond to travel to the middle of Asia to rescue some missionaries from Communist China. Taking Algy, Ginger and Bertie with him, plus a Chinese man by the name of Feng-tao (who speaks virtually no English), Biggles flies in an unmarked Halifax from Pakistan to the Gobi desert.

                • McFlock …
                  25 March 2018 at 1:14 am

                  I think I’d have to go P51D – same engine sound, bubble cockpit, looks like a greyhound. The early spits’ noses were too stubby for my taste 🙂

                  As for passenger aircraft, is there such a thing as a quiet plane for passengers? The turboprobs especially give me a damned headache. In fact, the discomfort of air travel is one of the two things that mean I have absolutely no desire to travel – dealing with customs and immigration is the other. Especially the yanks.

                  Bring back airships, that’s what I say.

                  • JohnSelway …
                    25 March 2018 at 1:29 am

                    I have to travel. I hate flying but travel is something the recuperates my soul.

                    Airports fuck me off to no end. There’s always some asshole in the queue whose luggage is too heavy. Then they hold everyone up while they open the suitcase and rearrange everything. I want to scream – “it doesn’t matter how you repack it, fuck-face, it still has the same mass!”

                    I’m not good with patience…

                    • Exkiwiforces …
                      25 March 2018 at 1:36 am

                      For me it’s the security screening with people **** assing around or some muppet guard trying explain to me Air Security btw that’s not a dig at the NZ Airport Security officers, but the Australian airports as the Kiwi ones don’t muck about.

                  • Exkiwiforces …
                    25 March 2018 at 1:29 am

                    On the Base was once station at, had a Mustang that dragged out every now and then for the flying days at the museum. It was bloody hard trying to a range brief with that cut laps around the Airfield. It was bad enough when the P40 powered Merlin pop in for a flying day or any other WW2 fighter and I must say that P40 sounds far better than Alison powered one.

                    • Macro …
                      25 March 2018 at 4:56 pm

                      If you ever return to NZ EKF then you must drop down here to Thames – birth place of Sir Keith Park “Defender of London”. A mate of mine (ex war bird pilot and wingman to Air Marshal Sir Kenneth Hayr) down the road still has his PPL – I had lost mine when I had a grumbling appendix for 2 years and by the time I had recovered life had moved on. But to cut to the chase – we went to see the Mossie up at Ardmore being rebuilt and flown again for the first time – I have a video of the flight . Awesome. They are rebuilding two more at the moment – and they will stay in the country. There is a spit and mustang in the hanger there as well.
                      A cousin of mine reckons he holds the record for the fastest flight from Ohakea to Wigram in a Harvard. Took off from Ohakea, and found a standing wave over the Ruahina’s , Tararua’s and Kaikora’s and effectively dove the whole way. 🙂 Have been in one of those myself flying out of Hood Airfield at Masterton. The altimeter went to 10,000 ft in about 1 minute! and that was in a Cessna 150.

              • Exkiwiforces …
                25 March 2018 at 1:11 am

                There was or still going on a low level tactical Flying Ex involving C130’s from the RNZAF, RAAF and USAF Special Operations Forces so wouldn’t be surprise if it was them dropping into Waharoa Airfield.

                I once had the money to fly Concorde after mate bet me to it, but I ended up buying a house instead as knew at the time they still very low hrs on them and they going stop in a hurry until….

                So the bucket list now is a flight in a Lac in Canada, a spit or Me 109 over the white cliffs of Dover, landing on Glacier in NZ and flying around the Alps/ Hasst and Southland area.

                If I do move back to NZ is to find the two aircraft crash site one in upper Buller/ Seddonville areas and one in the Golden Bay.

                “Never fly straight and level in a combat zone for more than 30s or else you will get shot down understand!!!

                As Skipper from Rabbit SQN is trying to teach a young sprog the art of finding the Hun in the sun.

                Or was that Sailor Malan???

      • Graeme 3.1.2
        24 March 2018 at 10:06 pm

        Pretty much every flight is subsidised by another flight in some way. That’s how aviation works. It’s highly unlikely that the person in the seat next to you paid the same as you did.

        What changed here is that New Zealand’s domestic route structure has changed. Previously, from the NAC days, the domestic routes were to serve the domestic market and economy, so had a shared Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch focus. Now the domestic routes are to serve the international routes, taking punters to and from the international hub in Auckland.

        This is the downside of the amalgamation of NAC and Air New Zealand (ex TEAL) where NAC was the aggressive expanding and profitable airline and threatening Air New Zealand. NAC was also providing a comprehensive regional service to the country. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOjN7IzYTaAhWMiLwKHaDXCB0QFgg7MAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHistory_of_Air_New_Zealand&usg=AOvVaw1Z4NLQTCji1fCJ7P3hC0Vp

        • Exkiwiforces 3.1.2.1
          25 March 2018 at 1:18 am

          Further to add there is good book called NAC The illustrated history of New Zealand NAC 1947-1978 which talks about the charter to serve regional NZ.

  4. veutoviper 4
    24 March 2018 at 8:45 am

    As a follow-on to my comment at 3, my thanks also goes to Ovid for their post at 9 on yesterday’s OM.
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23-03-2018/#comment-1464828

    The first of Ovid’s links in that post goes to this Stuff article by the PM, Jacinda Ardern on her surprise move to personally accept the Greenpeace petition a few days ago, and her position on climate change and fossil fuel transition planning:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102498682/jacinda-ardern-i-lived-through-fast-economic-change-in-the-80s-we-wont-repeat-that-with-our-move-to-cleaner-energy-future

    • AsleepWhileWalking 4.1
      24 March 2018 at 9:03 am

      Our focus right now is putting in place a plan to achieve this. That will involve everyone. Industry, communities, scientists, unions and the Government all need to work together. All of our futures are at stake on this issue.

      After years of dictatorial leadership it’s refreshing to see JA’s cooperative approach.

      • Incognito 4.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 10:36 am

        I find it fascinating that when framed as cooperation because

        All of our futures are at stake on this issue.

        it seems to be generally well received and welcomed although with the usual trepidation; after all, it is about change and the unknown.

        On the other hand, when it is framed in terms of a delicate balance of economic, environmental, and social issues because they are all integrated into a inseparable whole, because everything (and everyone!) is connected, then it is panned as radical, out of touch, or (much) worse …

        Often, it is not even the framing but the source, the messenger, i.e. the one who speaks.

        Merit is not enough; persuasion (not ‘spin’) is an art that requires skills and mastery, in addition to compassion, emotional intelligence, and super-human listening, to name a few.

    • RedBaronCV 4.2
      24 March 2018 at 9:52 am

      Well a co-operative approach yes. But to see fast change as essentially negative based on the 1980’s experience – not so much.
      There was fast change under the Savage government & under Whitlam in Australia – good out comes. Where there is a reasonable consensus (don’t sign TTTP!) moving fast will give more time to settle down and less time for wealthy opposition.

    • cleangreen 4.3
      24 March 2018 at 9:35 pm

      Thanks veutoviper,

      I am praying very hard Jacinda holds to her word and saves us here to shut down the massive 6% annual increased truck use increase of using truck freight everywhere.

      When we already now know how rail can carry the freight from 5 to eight times less fuel used to move the same freight by rail rather than road, and rail only emits only a fraction of climate change emissions.

      http://www.kiwirail.co.nz/uploads/Publications/The%20Value%20of%20the%20Rail%20in%20New%20Zealand.pdf

  5. veutoviper 5
    24 March 2018 at 8:51 am

    And one more further to 3 and 4 above, Ovid’s post yesterday also provided this link to a very interesting website on transition planning in a different context – a transition towns movement. This is fascinating and well worth some time having a look!

    https://transitionnetwork.org/

    Thanks again Ovid and Jilly Bee.

  6. joe90 6
    24 March 2018 at 9:46 am

    Forever wars are on again.

    An unreconstructed advocate of regime change after repeated failures in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, Bolton favors a lower threshold for the use of military force than prevailed under most Republican presidents prior to George W. Bush. He would like a more confrontational posture toward Syria, Iran, North Korea, and Russia, following up Bush-era talk of the “Axis of Evil” with warnings about a “Moscow-Tehran-Damascus-Hezbollah axis.”

    […]

    We are once again seeing a GOP-controlled Washington growing government and billowing red ink and a foreign policy fed by threat inflation, whereby tough talk belies a lack of confidence in America’s ability to dominate weak foes without shooting first and asking questions later.

    Now John Bolton is getting that old band Axis of Evil back together.

    http://theweek.com/articles/762615/john-bolton-proof-that-trump-abandoned-best-campaign-promise

  7. Anne 7
    24 March 2018 at 10:11 am

    I’m on the same wave length as Audrey Young this week. Shane Jones has succeeded in getting NZ First back up to 5%. He’s now on track to be the ‘heir apparent’ should Winston choose to step down and the end of this term.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12018819

    • Keepcalmcarryon 7.1
      24 March 2018 at 10:20 am

      It’s interesting seeing the tone of postings in TS and TDB, NZ first may be taking the mantle of preferred leftist party as we see time and again the greens are self absorbed idiots.
      I’m not a fan of Shane jones – at all, but he succeeded where labour failed miserably in speaking for the public against corporate interest. Now the fisheries Shane.

    • veutoviper 7.2
      24 March 2018 at 10:26 am

      So am I – what a great summary.

      Loved her reference to Jones as a combine harvester:

      Jones is like a political combine harvester. Let loose on a controversy, he wanders all over the paddock reaping and threshing but usually producing something that is valuable.

      BUT re Jones as heir apparent – sorry, nah. He has indicated on a number of occasions that he is not interested. I think he has found his niche in his role as Champion of the Regions, and would hate the constraints that being Leader of a Party brings.

      I have been watching NZF closely for years and IMO the heir apparent was chosen a couple of years ago and has been groomed over that period – Fletcher Tabuteau.

      Despite his young age (44/5?) he has been involved with NZF since its beginning when he was quite young, and as well as now being Deputy Leader, he is also Under Study to both Peters and Jones as Parliamentary Under Secretary for both Foreign Affairs and Regional Development. Those roles could have been split over two MPs but weren’t.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher_Tabuteau

      • patricia bremner 7.2.1
        24 March 2018 at 8:52 pm

        Just read this …. Veutoviper, made me think of the Wurzel’s song …
        “The Combine Harvester” on utube. LOL

      • OncewasTim 7.2.2
        25 March 2018 at 1:00 am

        Interesting and timely given I’ve just been assisting with the TOTAL reconditioning of an actual combine harvester (every bearing on the thing, plus its very sucky motor with new barrels and eings)
        I’m bloody sure a Shane is capable of adaptation/repurpose/rearrangement as any political expediency kicks in.

  8. Tony Veitch (not etc) 8
    24 March 2018 at 10:17 am

    Now is the time for the Green Party, the only party of principle in our parliament, as far as I can see, to stand up for New Zealand.

    They disagree with CPTTA and will not vote for it. But that is simply not good enough. With National’s backing the so-called free trade treaty will pass.

    But (relying on reports) climate change is not mentioned once in the entire 5000 page document! And the ISDS provisions still allow overseas corporations to sue NZ government if any climate change legislation gets in the way of their profits.

    If this is indeed so, it is not enough for the Green to vote against CPTTA. That will achieve nothing, except ensure their right to say ‘I told you so!’ sometime in the future.

    No, they must DEMAND a climate change assessment of the CPTTA and threaten to withdraw Confidence and Supply if this doesn’t happen.

    The ‘troughers’ in Labour and NZ First will be appalled by the prospect of another election and a possible National victory (as so would I) but it is great leverage.

    The Greens, a party of principle, MUST act in the interests of all the people in this country.

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      24 March 2018 at 11:38 am

      The problem with that idea is that the Left would be seen as unstable and National/ACT would romp home. Is that what you want?

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 8.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 1:47 pm

        The alternative is little effective progress on mitigating the effects of climate change – which is worse?

        But I wouldn’t see the Greens shouting this from the rooftops – merely putting pressure on Labour and NZ First behind closed doors.

        Labour/NZ First could simply announce a climate change audit of CPTPPA – and that would sink the treaty once and for all.

        • wayne 8.1.1.1
          24 March 2018 at 2:47 pm

          All too late.

          Labour and NZF have already said they are supporting the CPTPPA. In government keeping ones word is supposed to mean something. People and other nations rely on it.

          So there is nothing the Greens can do (other than terminating the government) that can stop NZ ratifying the CPTPPA. And if they did terminate the government a new National/Act government would be the likely outcome

          • veutoviper 8.1.1.1.1
            24 March 2018 at 2:49 pm

            Or a Labour/NZF government.

          • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.1.2
            24 March 2018 at 3:01 pm

            And don’t you love it you vile autocrat!

            Against the wishes of the majority of voters the braindead Gnats have locked us into a remarkably bad deal – at the same time reducing faith in the democratic process – a win for the forces of infamy!

            But NZ pays as usual.

          • weka 8.1.1.1.3
            24 March 2018 at 3:36 pm

            Why can’t the TPPA legislation go through the same CC assessment as other legislation that affects the environment?

            • cleangreen 8.1.1.1.3.1
              24 March 2018 at 9:37 pm

              100% correct weka; – why not indeed?

              You should make that an article soon.

              • weka …
                24 March 2018 at 9:57 pm

                I don’t know enough about it (hence the question to Wayne). Drop me some links if you find anything interesting 🙂

          • Tony Veitch (not etc) 8.1.1.1.4
            24 March 2018 at 3:41 pm

            “In government keeping ones word is supposed to mean something.”

            Well I never! You mean, like no asset sales?

            • OncewasTim 8.1.1.1.4.1
              24 March 2018 at 8:26 pm

              He means like a Sir John Key kinda keeping one’s word.
              In fact EVEN his own and a number of his colleagues

          • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.1.5
            24 March 2018 at 5:20 pm

            “All too late.” – what’s in it for Wayne, I wonder?

            Would keeping one’s word extend to pre-election ‘promises’?

            If (and it’s a big IF) NZ is still a sovereign country, then the Government is free to act at anytime in the evolving ‘balanced best interests’ of all citizens. Signing the CPATPP serves the interests of very few NZers.

            The EU seems to have dodged their own TTIP bullet, at least for now, but corporates, like rust, never sleep.

            The agreement has been criticized and opposed by some unions, charities, NGOs and environmentalists, particularly in Europe.

            The Independent describes common criticisms of TTIP as “reducing the regulatory barriers to trade for big business, things like food safety law, environmental legislation, banking regulations and the sovereign powers of individual nations”, or more critically as an “assault on European and US societies by transnational corporations”.

            The Guardian noted the criticism of TTIP’s “undemocratic nature of the closed-door talks”, “influence of powerful lobbyists”, TTIP’s potential ability to “undermine the democratic authority of local government”, and described it as “the most controversial trade deal the EU has ever negotiated”.

  9. cleangreen 9
    24 March 2018 at 1:16 pm

    Our note to Government today on the sixth anniversary of the washout that closed Gisborne rail.

    Protecting our environment & health.
    In association with other Community Groups, and all Government Agencies since 2001.
    Public COMMUNITY letter; : 6th Anniversary of Gisborne rail washout 24th March 2012.

    24th March 2018; – On this day the sixth anniversary of the rail washout that closed Gisborne rail link to the rest of NZ.

    Dear rail stakeholders,

    Please review these past considerations of NZ Rail for your re-consideration to re-open the Gisborne rail link to the rest of NZ.

    We should curtail trucking as now it is harming the environment and use * General Manager of NZ Rail Trevor Haywood’s plan to use rail for “social benefit” again. 1971.
    Read below, History of rail.
    In 1971, the Government commissioned United States consultancy firm Wilbur Smith & Associates to look at Railways. It also recommended that road transport meet the “resource costs” incurred and social costs such as accidents, pollution and the loss of utility caused by heavy vehicles.

    We must use these considerations also when restoring Gisborne’s rail freight again.

    Our justification is;

    As we say it is justified that rail services must resume, because Gisborne is the most isolated community of its size in NZ without a rail service; – ministers please note.

    http://www.kiwirail.co.nz/about-us/history-of-kiwirail/150yearsofrail/stories/road-transport-regulation.html

    • mary_a 9.1
      24 March 2018 at 1:34 pm

      Hi Cleangreen (9) … have you by any chance contacted Shane Jones about restoring rail to your region?

      As you know, Jonesy is on a roll at the moment with regional air transport, which is proving very popular. Could well be a good time to contact him and tell him your case re Gisborne rail, while he’s fired up championing regional transport.

      Good for you Cleangreen for keeping this issue out there. All the best in getting a positive outcome.

      • OncewasTim 9.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 8:28 pm

        Clean mught miss the question, but rest assured he, and partners have done their bestEST to contact every1/body

      • cleangreen 9.1.2
        24 March 2018 at 9:51 pm

        Yes mary-a; – thanks for the question.

        I have sent 10 emails to all senior Labour NZ First and green party ministers including Shane and Winston.

        Once was Tim; – is absolutely correct they have had so many emails from us they are having trouble handling them since they were jammed with thousands of emails from national at the beginning of the parliament so national have caused a “email road block” we were told by the MP’s PA’s.

        But we every second day now call the parliamentary office requesting for those appropriate ministers to come to HB/Gisborne to discuss the rail issue with all our community groups now before they make final decisions here.

        As we all are representative as the most affected amongst the regions without rail and roads now “gridlocked with trucks” it is ruining our narrow windy roads and makes driving very dangerous now so rail is needed seriously now more than ever.

        Please heed our community call to return our gisborne rail as you did other regions as our regions are now booming and truck traffic is raising annually at a staggering 6% a year. This is unsustainable for our environment and our futures..

  10. joe90 10
    24 March 2018 at 1:27 pm

    Remember the dire warnings about state abuse of collected meta-data.

    Well, Silicon Valley’s tech billionaires have been hard at it.

    Downloaded my facebook data as a ZIP fileSomehow it has my entire call history with my partner's mum pic.twitter.com/CIRUguf4vD— Dylan McKay (@dylanmckaynz) March 21, 2018

    a historical record of every single contact on my phone, including ones I no longer have pic.twitter.com/XfiRX6qgHl— Dylan McKay (@dylanmckaynz) March 21, 2018

    metadata about every text message I've ever received or sentspoiler: I don't use messenger for SMS pic.twitter.com/ehWXhpnrrV— Dylan McKay (@dylanmckaynz) March 21, 2018

    and the metadata of every cellular call I've ever made, including time and duration 😬😬 pic.twitter.com/Ykr3o0gZFu— Dylan McKay (@dylanmckaynz) March 21, 2018

    https://twitter.com/dylanmckaynz/status/976368845635035138

    • joe90 10.1
      24 March 2018 at 3:30 pm

      Die, Facebook.

      Facebook’s mounting image problems hit a whole other orbit on Friday.

      Tech icon Elon Musk appeared to delete the official Facebook pages for two of his companies, SpaceX and Tesla, Inc.

      Musk’s moves come days after a whistleblower revealed that a data analysis firm tied to President Donald Trump’s campaign had harvested data off Facebook, resulting in widespread criticism and sparking government investigations.

      https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/spacex-founder-elon-musk-piles-facebook-s-woes-continue-n859506

      #deleteFacebook

      • weka 10.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 3:41 pm

        I’d love it if FB died, and something ethical and functional replaced it. Not sure how possible that is.

        I read McKay’s tweets. The thing that amazes me is that people are surprised FB have been doing this.

      • OncewasTim 10.1.2
        24 March 2018 at 8:33 pm

        Fuck yea!!!!
        We might actually get to real, rather than virtual community where humans interact in real time. A place (oops…. I mean ‘space’) where humans interact in real time and between one another. Sometimes, like the most exotic of animal, their lives depend on it (going forward, to coin a phrase, ez a meta a fek, ekshully)

  12. adam 12
    24 March 2018 at 2:40 pm

    If you have the time, a real story of a cab driver. The impact of deregulation and the cost on real people. Time 29 minutes long. The new Gig economy.

  13. mikesh 13
    24 March 2018 at 2:57 pm

    A couple of days ago I made a comment on the “Russian to Judgment” post, pointing to an article on globalresearch.ca which reported that Russian Army chief of staff, Valery Gerasimov, claimed to have received reliable information that the US was planning an attack on Damascus, and which seemed to be connected to the Salisbury incident. A more recent article on voltairenet claims that this was in fact a plot concocted by the British government in collusion with Rex Tillerson, but without the knowledge of either Donald Trump or the Pentagon, and which seems to be the reason for Tillerson’s sacking.

    voltairenet.org/article200232.html

    The plan seems to have been for the British to fabricate a nerve gas attack on Skripal blaming it on the Russians, and then follow it up with a nerve gas attack in Ghouta, blaming that one on Assad. Gerasimov apparently contacted his American counterpart, General Dunford, with the information. From there it went to General Mattis, and then to Trump. CIA director Pompeio confirmed that the report was authentic. Tillerson was immediately recalled.

    • Stuart Munro 13.1
      24 March 2018 at 3:10 pm

      So… not only are we to believe that the Skripal attack was a false flag, but the Brits are to have been running black labs in Ghouta.

      This is fatuous nonsense of the highest degree. May simply wouldn’t dare – one leaker anywhere in the chain and her government would fall and her career would end.

      Russia and Assad have been dropping gas for years – if we look at other areas of British deployment they do not correlate with the use of gas. So what’s so special about Syria? Not the Brits.

      • mauī 13.1.1
        25 March 2018 at 12:12 am

        “if we look at other areas of British deployment they do not correlate with the use of gas.”

        Sure, but nerve gas didn’t really seem to be a thing in recent Afghanistan and Iraq wars that the Brits have been involved with. It’s has only cropped up since Syria was accused of using it on its own people and a basis to invade was formed.

        May simply wouldn’t dare – one leaker anywhere in the chain and her government would fall and her career would end.”

        Do you remember our very own “get some guts” moment, and how many times our public has been told bare faced lies. But she wouldn’t? You only need a couple of people at the top to form a lie and everyone else follows in behind, its not that hard.

        • Stuart Munro 13.1.1.1
          25 March 2018 at 2:41 am

          For all that they currently have a pretty useless set of self-serving assholes in power, British democracy has greater institutional resilience than NZ – members regularly cross the floor and a frankly rotten piece of shit like Carter could never have been speaker.

          You may point to Blair with some justice, but even at peak arrogance he never dabbled in chemical weapons – neither the public nor the press would have approved. He sought a mandate for the Iraq war, in large part to dilute his own culpability, but he would not have entered Iraq except as a ‘very close ally’ of George Bush.

          It’s true that there is a certain amount of institutional fatigue in the armed forces at present, and some of them would quite like an option that simply made the enemy go away. May would never be so adventurous however – she’s only PM because Cameron quit, and that flakiness carries all the way through the command chain. Supposing you were a mid level organic chemist – would you travel to Ghouta to run black labs for May? You can bet she’d shaft you without a thought if things became sticky. May Breaks Bad would make a splendid sitcom, but Syria simply isn’t important enough to England to justify such extraordinary risks, even were she an espiophile like John Key.

          And, one ought to limit one’s dependency on the Russian propaganda chain as a news source. It’s not produced for our benefit. RT’s days appear to be numbered, and Global Research seems set to take its place. I tolerated them when they limited their advocacy to telling the inconvenient parts of essentially truthful narratives – but now they are vehicles for barefaced lies – propaganda that only the hysterical could entertain for a moment.

    • mikesh 13.2
      24 March 2018 at 3:27 pm

      PS:I should have mentioned that the plan was to be followed up with a request that the US attack Damascus.

      • Brigid 13.2.1
        24 March 2018 at 4:00 pm

        Yes.
        I’ve read similar. I can’t find the link atm. There is one common interest, and that the person charged with testing the so called evidence from Syria, and his involvement with nerve agent propaganda.
        Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Nikki Haley et al are such a source of hilarity. Tragic as it is.

        • mikesh 13.2.1.1
          24 March 2018 at 4:42 pm

          An alternative link is http://www.voltairenet.org/en where the article is titled Four days t start a cold war.

          • Brigid 13.2.1.1.1
            24 March 2018 at 8:03 pm

            Yep. Saw that too.

            But there’s this happiness happening

            Damascenes celebrating the liberation of #EasternGhouta from the Islamist terror groups. 23/03/2018

            https://twitter.com/KevorkAlmassian/status/977231647526531072

            • Bill 13.2.1.1.1.1
              24 March 2018 at 9:45 pm

              So the headlines in the WP, NYT, Grudian and independent over coming days (if not about facebook and whatever else) – celebrating peoples’ liberation and the defeat of terrorists? Or accusing Syria of crimes against humanity for guaranteeing terrorists and their families safe passage?

              Well. Thinking Aleppo and so thinking the latter.

              And again I’m going to point out that the so-called “Free Syrian Army” that western governments have openly backed, promoted and funded, is killing people from multiple ethnic and religious backgrounds in Rojava – Rojava where neither the Syrian government nor the Syrian Arab Army have any presence.

              • Brigid …
                24 March 2018 at 10:37 pm

                ” Thinking Aleppo and so thinking the latter.”

                Past practices are an insight into future practices.

                Even this doesn’t seem to embarrass the BBC
                https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201712291060412907-syria-documentary-fakery-bbc/
                One Man’s Quest to Expose ‘Absolutely Historic’ BBC Panorama ‘Fakery’

              • Brigid …
                24 March 2018 at 11:55 pm

                And as I can not reply to the lies spouted by Stuart Munroe in his reference to the alleged chemical attack on Khan Sheikhoun on April 4th 2017, on the Russian to Judgement page, again I will quote the OPCW report

                “The FFM’s mandate is to determine whether chemical weapons or toxic chemicals as weapons have been used in Syria; it does not include identifying who is responsible for alleged attacks. An advance team for the FFM was deployed within 24 hours of being alerted to the incident. For security reasons, the FFM was unable to visit Khan Shaykhun. The rapid deployment to a neighbouring country, however, enabled the team to attend autopsies, collect bio-medical samples from casualties and fatalities, interview witnesses and receive environmental samples. ”

                The report explicitly states that FFM was unable to visit the site.
                But without any challenge to the veracity of the samples, accepted them without question.
                Samples supplied by ….well we aren’t told that, but considering the area was too dangerous for the OPCW mission to enter we can only deduce that they were supplied by the mercenary NATO Saudi, US funded terrorist headchoppers.

      • Stuart Munro 13.2.2
        24 March 2018 at 7:05 pm

        In fact you shouldn’t have mentioned any of this nonsense at all.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3
      24 March 2018 at 5:02 pm

      And what? You read the comment from Exkiwiforces that undermines that narrative so you decided to start the whole bullshit up somewhere that comment isn’t current? Did you think people would forget what ExKF said and give you the benefit of the doubt?

      You’re suspiciously selective in which generals you believe and which ones you don’t. Lift your game.

      • mikesh 13.3.1
        24 March 2018 at 6:16 pm

        I placed my comment here because “Russian to Judgment” was no longer on the front page. I thought no one would see my comment if I placed it on that posting.

        I guess followers of this website can read our respective omments and make up their own minds. I won’t be commenting further unless I come across new information.

        Besides that, my tablet’s battery needs recharging.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.1.1
          24 March 2018 at 6:36 pm

          You presenting some information would be a good start. Thus far all you’ve done is pass on someone else’s massively conflicted reckons.

          I see Lavrov now says the entire EU is ganging up on Russia, as though the vicious thieves he works for represent “Russia”.

      • Bill 13.3.2
        24 March 2018 at 6:57 pm

        Pot and kettle there OAB.

        I hadn’t been aware of exkiwiforces comment, so thanks for the pointer.

        The comment you linked to was a direct response to me pointing out that the canister containing the chemicals at Khan Sheikhoun had ruptured inwards, not outwards as happens with missiles, mortars etc.

        Exkiwiforces comment doesn’t actually address that point (of how the casing of a delivered munition shows obvious signs of having being imploded – ie, punctured by an external explosive force)

        Nothing in exkiwiforces comment (not the one you link to anyway) has anything to do with the narrative mikesh has linked to above.

        Maybe you linked to the wrong comment?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.2.1
          24 March 2018 at 7:17 pm

          In my opinion, ExKF’s knowledgeable comment undermines Gerasimov’s propaganda. Not to mention the various massive holes in it already identified by McFlock and Stuart Munro.

          • Bill 13.3.2.1.1
            24 March 2018 at 8:28 pm

            So…I get that you’ve been following whatever is being reported about what Gerasimov’s saying more closely than I have.

            What has he said about the chemical delivery system at Khan Sheikhoun (which was all exkiwiforces comment was about) and how does whatever Gerasimov say about that marry up to any claims about eastern Ghouta and whatever allegations being made about expected chemical attacks there?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.2.1.1.1
              25 March 2018 at 5:52 am

              He didn’t say anything about the chemical delivery system at Khan Sheikhoun. What he did do though is tell stories about the UK and its allies readiness to use chemical weapons as false flag attacks.

              ExKF’s said “the chemical weapon system had delay action fuse to off after the raid to off after the raid catching everyone in the open as it went off thence the small impact carter”.

              Mikesh was using his truther beliefs about Khan Sheikhoun to support Gerasimov’s dubious credibility. ExKF undermined those beliefs.

              • mikesh …
                25 March 2018 at 8:53 am

                Actually, Stuart was using Khan Sheikhoun to undermine Gerasimov’s claims. I attempted to refute his rebuttals relying on my own less than perfect memory. The event occurred a long time ago. However I’ve since remembered that, at the time, the Russians claimed to have bombed a warehouse which they believed contained weapons, not knowing that the weapons were in fact chemical weapons. Whatever. I don’t think that Khan Sheikhoun is particularly relevant to the present discussion.

                Gerasimov’s claims have since been confirmed by CIA chief, Pompaeo, and they seem to have been the reason for Tillerson’s sacking.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  25 March 2018 at 9:07 am

                  You need to decide which bullshit story to tell – “A young woman associated with the rebels said that the gas was released as a result of a cock-up by the rebel forces” or “Russia bombed a warehouse”.

                  Gerasimov’s claims have since been confirmed by CIA chief, Pompaeo[sic].

                  [Citation needed]

                  Quote Pompeo (spelling his name correctly may help you) directly, please, and use a reputable source if you can.

                  • mikesh …
                    25 March 2018 at 10:50 am

                    “[Citation needed]”

                    I have given my own source above. I doubt whether a direct quotation from Pompeo is available. However I assume Thierry has his own informants.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      25 March 2018 at 10:59 am

                      Pompeo hasn’t confirmed it then. What a load of bullshit!

                    • mikesh …
                      25 March 2018 at 11:17 am

                      ..You don’t know that. Or if you do let us know the source of your information.

                      I think your real problem is that if Pompeo did confirm then it tears to shreds your’s and Stuart’s claim that Gerasimov is lying.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      25 March 2018 at 11:21 am

                      The source of my information that Pompeo hasn’t said something? Are you on drugs? I don’t have any photos of your pet goat either, in case you were wondering.

                    • mikesh …
                      25 March 2018 at 12:36 pm

                      I agree. Simply demanding a citation is just not an argument.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      25 March 2018 at 2:42 pm

                      It is when it’s a response to an unsupported assertion like yours.

                    • mikesh …
                      25 March 2018 at 2:54 pm

                      No it isn’t. The non availability of a citable source doesn’t prove the truth or falsity of an alleged “fact”. However, if that “fact” is coherent with other known facts, it’s reasonable to believe it, with or without a citation.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      25 March 2018 at 3:19 pm

                      All you need now is a single fact then. So far you have zero. Lots of words but.

                    • Bill …
                      25 March 2018 at 3:27 pm

                      Both of you strayed from any political exchange hours ago. How’s about you both call it a day before things degenerate any further and one or the other of you step over a line?

                      At the moment you’re both just filling up space with lots of nothing.

                    • mikesh …
                      25 March 2018 at 3:53 pm

                      OK

                • Stuart Munro …
                  25 March 2018 at 3:50 pm

                  Not quite – Gerasimov’s claims are not based on evidence beyond his claim of “information”, thus they do not need to be rebutted.

                  If you could have produced something to substantiate his allegations you might have had a credible argument – but you asserted the presence of some female informant that you could not (or chose not to) produce.

                  I’ve been banned before now for not providing sources – I don’t see why you should be exempt from that requirement.

    • Carolyn_Nth 13.4
      24 March 2018 at 7:30 pm

      That all sounds a bit over-elaborate.

      However, I do think the UK Tories took the Skripal poisoning as an opportunity to beat up the Russian regime is the ultimate evil.

      The evidence shows that May and Johnson constantly exaggerated the novicok connection to Russia.

      In fact, a High Court Judgement from a couple of days ago (22 March) includes evidence that states there was less certainty around the novichok nerve agent being responsible for the Skripal poisoning.

      The High Court judgement was in response to a request to take more blood samples from the comatose Skripals (there’s no-one with authority to give such permission, given the Skripals certainly can’t).

      The evidence presented was thus:

      17….

      i)
      CC: Porton Down Chemical and Biological Analyst

      Blood samples from Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal were analysed and the findings indicated exposure to a nerve agent or related compound. The samples
      tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent or closely related agent.

      So “closely related agent” somewhat widens the possibility of where the nerve agent actually came from.

      Any other conclusion from such evidence can probably be in the realms of fantasy.

      These Tories do seem to have some fantastical ideas, but whether they actually would lead to them being put into practice is another matter.

      This article from 2005, outlines a fantasy scenario floated as a promo for Strategic Communication Laboratories (SLC). They demonstrated how they could produce some psy-ops propaganda, and pass it off as real.

      [SLC with strong Conservative Party connections, later spawned Cambridge Analytica.]

      SLC’s propaganda scenario works to contain a small pox outbreak in London. SLC showed they could fabricate a fictitious scenario that would be put out to the media and online, to stop Londoners venturing outdoors.

      Rather than alert the public to the smallpox threat, the company sets up a high-tech “ops center” to convince the public that an accident at a chemical plant threatens London. As the fictitious toxic cloud approaches the city, TV news outlets are provided graphic visuals charting the path of the invisible toxins. Londoners stay indoors, glued to the telly, convinced that even a short walk into the streets could be fatal.

      Why anyone would bother with such an elaborate subterfuge is beyond me.

    • Jenny 13.5
      24 March 2018 at 8:07 pm

      Russian Army chief of staff, Valery Gerasimov, has received reliable information that the US working with the saucer people are planning an attack on Damascus, connected to the Salisbury incident. In fact the plan was concocted by the British government in collusion with Rex Tillerson, utilising the Black Helicopters to carry it out.

      And if you believe that, then you probably also believe globalresearch.ca claim that the Tens of millions of protesters throughout the Arab World protesting the totalitarian regimes of Ben Ali, Mubarak and Assad were working for the CIA.

      https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-arab-spring-made-in-the-usa/5484950

  14. SPC 14
    24 March 2018 at 5:15 pm

    Dominion Post getting its editorials from Kiwiblog.

    Just plain lazy, but also just goes to show what precious snowflakes old white men are, and how sensitive establishment privilege is to challenge.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/102544535/editorial-genter-on-gender-maybe-a-little-gentler

    • Carolyn_Nth 14.1
      24 March 2018 at 6:20 pm

      I thought of Julie Anne Genter when I read this article this morning.

      A former Cambridge Analytic exec, Brittany Kaiser, has come out and said the CA people have been lying.

      Among other things, she said:

      Asked why she has decided to speak out, Kaiser flares: “Why should we make excuses for these people? Why? I’m so tired of making excuses for old white men. Fucking hell.”

      Brittany left CA a couple of weeks ago – I’m pretty sure I read she left due to an employment dispute. So she may have an ax to grind.

      However, she says Cambridge Analytica people lied about not being involved in the Brexit leave campaign.

      • SPC 14.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 6:52 pm

        Well I suppose it’s pretty easy to identify what scares old white English and American men and motivates them to vote … loss of power and authority over how society is organised and in whose interest. Using their vote to freeze the nation back in time (nostalgic remembering) to how society was when they were young – thus heightened fear of change. Thus Brexit or Trump’s American first or we go isolationist.

  15. Stuart Munro 15
    24 March 2018 at 6:52 pm

    Since it seems we are to be bombarded with Lavrov’s witless speculations about false flag attacks, it might pertinent to look at the modern event that popularized them for this generation.

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/11/22/finally-we-know-about-moscow-bombings/

    • Anne 15.1
      24 March 2018 at 7:12 pm

      I’m starting to understand Trump’s admiration for Putin. Trump …wish I could get away with doing all those things Putin does. Wouldn’t it be great. 👿

      • Stuart Munro 15.1.1
        24 March 2018 at 7:30 pm

        I’m pretty sure their conversation went something like “Let me show you how…”

  16. joe90 16
    24 March 2018 at 7:19 pm

    A twofer for gun humpers.

    Restricted By YouTube, Gun Enthusiasts Are Taking Their Videos To Pornhub

    […]

    Starting next month, YouTube will ban videos that offer instructions on how to make firearms and accessories such as silencers and bump stocks. It will prohibit content in which firearms and accessories are sold, both directly and through other websites. Videos on how to install firearms modifications will also be barred.

    […]

    InRangeTV, which has some 144,000 subscribers on its YouTube channel, has chosen to publish videos on an adult website called Pornhub, Bloomberg reported. A search on the site yields five videos currently uploaded by InRangeTV. Visitors can watch a video where hosts compare a Glock 19 and a Hudson H9, just as it appears on YouTube.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/22/596161899/restricted-by-youtube-gun-enthusiasts-are-taking-their-videos-to-pornhub

  18. eco maori 18
    25 March 2018 at 10:23 am

    Nation this sexual harassment and bullying of Lady’s in our legal profession is unacceptable this day and age. This behaviour will stop Alot of Lady’s from entering this profession we need Lady’s in our legal professions to give that industry a more humane approach to the LAW OF THE LAND many thanks Lisa for having the courage to have this conversation on live TV3
    KIA KAHA KA KITE ANO P.S It is a bad culture

  19. eco maori 19
    25 March 2018 at 10:54 am

    Nation I’m a big fan of TED TALKs to that was a good interview on Education there is a lot of talented mokos missed by the education system at the minute.
    Many thanks to all the the mokos around the World who are protesting the lack of good gun laws in America and because of this phenomenon alot of people are dieing. Kia kaha mokos Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 19.1
      25 March 2018 at 11:08 am

      Nation I totally agree with Liya opinions on the ttp11 and the unknown implications on the Internet and social media and your other people about the big Internet companies being almost God like in influence and power Ka pai Ka kite ano

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