Open Mike 24/08/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 24th, 2017 - 83 comments
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83 comments on “Open Mike 24/08/2017”

  1. Ed 1

    Interesting how the media just don’t discuss the ISSUES behind the election.

    Instead this clickbait today…….

    Newshub
    ‘Bledisloe Cup: Dane Coles back for 50th Test’
    ‘South Africa debuts rhino horn auction’
    ‘Teacher dies after laughing too hard’

    NZ Herald
    ‘Overstayer Sukhwinder Singh granted extra days in NZ after Immigration turned up on wedding day’
    ‘Hillary Clinton said her ‘skin crawled’ when Donald Trump stood behind her on debate stage’
    ‘Auckland Council staff take freebies to Lions test series’
    ‘White or red? Auckland shoppers get to drink while they buy groceries’

    TVNZ
    ‘Boy, 14, arrested in Saudi Arabia after performing Macarena dance on a busy road’
    ‘Watch: Adorable toddler clambers over veteran news presenter’s desk, causes absolute chaos’
    ”She was very much still alive’ – Emotional Prince Harry laments paparazzi took photos of his dying mother’

    An uninformed electorate.
    I wonder why.

    However, I must commend the Stuff investigation team for their in depth report on Afghanistan. Journalism done well.

    https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/the-valley/

    Chomsky sums it up.

    • Cinny 1.1

      Chomsky, awesome. And we wonder why National never pushed for civics to be taught to all in schools.

      Watched backbenchers last night, national rolled out Judith to represent them, her lack of crowd support was very noticeable. She looked very smug and tried desperately to spin the line that she was concerned about child poverty, sad state of affairs when she is spinning that yarn in order to gain support, after doing bugger all about it while national has been in power.

      Made me reflect on something Key said the other day… that he wished he could have done more for child poverty, well Key nothing is stopping you from doing something about it now, but we know you won’t, you don’t have to be in power or even in parliament to do something about child poverty

      • OncewasTim 1.1.1

        Just as an aside Cinny, not sure about you but I find Backbenchers hard to watch since the move from TVNZ7.
        Screaming ad breaks destroying the continuity of discussion…segmented with more time constraints…less dynamism…..shorter. a bit like an essay of bullet points
        Better than nothing I spose

        • Cinny 1.1.1.1

          I think backbenchers is just getting a bit more raucous due to the election. But it is a shame it’s on so late at night, would be great if it were on earlier.

      • Carolyn_nth 1.1.2

        Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure etiria Turei will continue to work to end poverty and to improve the lot of beneficiaries when she is no longer and MP. Russel Norman also continues to work for a sustainable environment.

        Key and his ilk will be looking to work to maintain their own wealth and status after leaving parliament.

        I know which of these people get my respect and which are making the biggest contribution to society.

        • Dspare 1.1.2.1

          Turei was well received at last night’s Child Poverty forum in Dunedin (which I wasn’t at because it really hadn’t been well publicized):

          The questions canvassed the candidates’ thoughts on housing affordability and availability for low-income earners; how they would create healthy childhoods; and whether they thought benefits and working for families tax credits should be indexed to median wages, as superannuation is.

          Ms Turei’s response to the latter drew the loudest cheers and applause of the forum, from many in the audience.

          https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/applause-turei-candidate-forum

      • tracey 1.1.3

        And presided over a government which claimed first we had none and second you cannot define it. No one challenged him… just regurgitated his reply.

      • Eco maori 1.1.4

        + 100 Ed I admire Noam to he has being fighting for the oppressed for 60 years

    • Ed 1.2

      Duncan Garner and Mark Richardson are boofheads. They care more about the quality of beer at Eden Park than workers conditions.
      That would be an ignorant opinion even if they were members of the public but these people tell the news.
      No wonder so many New Zealanders vote against their own interests.

      • tc 1.2.1

        If your listening to those 2 in the first instance then its highly unlikely youre interested in truth, intelligence and anything outside their blokey boys network shtick.

    • tracey 1.3

      Ed

      Was coming to say the same thing. Stuff has nothing and Herald has an article about Hosking interviewing Ardern and asking why Peters is mad.

      So all their reporters asking where policy is while opining…

      For example an article about whether Bill or Jacibda won the Herald Leaders interview. I mean, really? Who won instead of what are their policies and analysis

      Turei was right!

  2. ScottGN 2

    It was over shadowed by the PREFU yesterday but I was struck by just how fast Amy Adams felt the need to come out and match Labour’s pretty modest regional housing announcement in Palmerston North.

    • Bearded Git 2.1

      Agreed Scott….panic in the air. The Nats are terminally weak on the housing issue having mismanaged it disastrously.

      The stats where first home buyers are at their lowest for decades and the huge percentage of houses being bought by investors are the killers.

      • The Nats are terminally weak on the housing issue having mismanaged it disastrously.

        They couldn’t do anything else on the housing as it was the housing bubble that was allowing a massive influx of money into the system which kept it propped up, kept employment highish and inflation going.

        Without the housing bubble NZ would have been in a depression and nothing National would or could do would alleviate it.

  3. typifies trump

    “”We’ve ended the war on beautiful, clean coal, and it’s just been announced that a second, brand-new coal mine, where they’re going to take out clean coal – meaning, they’re taking out coal, they’re going to clean it – is opening in the state of Pennsylvania,” Trump said, completely misrepresenting what clean coal is.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11909818

    As he gets more desperate he will get more desperate – this is a worry for humans on this planet.

    • dukeofurl 3.1

      Clean coal ? Even for Trump thats a weird one

      “Corsa Coal Corp. (TSXV:CSO) decided almost a year ago to open the Acosta mine, about 60 miles from Pittsburgh, to take advantage of higher metallurgical coal prices.”
      http://www.mining.com/new-met-coal-mine-opens-pennsylvania/
      metallurgical coal is used for steelmaking

      • tracey 3.1.1

        If his speech yesterday had been made in North Korea headlines would read Kim Jung Un has gone mad

      • ianmac 3.1.2

        At a cafe in Springs Junction on Sunday they were using coal to heat the place. Haven’t seen coal being used for ages. Is it still used domestically?

        • McFlock 3.1.2.1

          yeah, a bit.
          I actually have a coal range with a wetback in Dunedin – haven’t cranked it up in a year or two, and even then probably just used pruning waste. Can’t remember last time I used the coal that’s lying next to it.

          Lol there’s even a pile of coke out back from previous tenants – the pile must be at least 20 years old.

          Judging by the valley winter smog layer, wood seems to be the most commonly burned with only the occasional chimney putting out something more sulphurous.

        • joe90 3.1.2.2

          Is it still used domestically?

          Available in most supermarkets, The Warehouse, Bunnings etc.

        • mac1 3.1.2.3

          Have a drive round a West Coast town!

          • ianmac 3.1.2.3.1

            That makes sense Mac1. A bucket of coal in a small town better than cutting down a tree. Remember the throat catching smoke from old steam trains even though they look magnificent under power?

          • JC 3.1.2.3.2

            Or Balclutha… or Te anau… kia Coal! Cheap as chips!

  4. You have to ask how these the things DON”T clash
    Kiwisaver

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/greens-deliver-labour-massive-surprise-unexpected-candidate-ohariu-electorate-race

    And

    http://www.oilcrash.com/articles/oilconfl.htm

    The evidence is in, basically a green party candidate is saying Kiwisaver is a crock ie there simply isn’t another 47 years of growth left on the planet, and young voters are being lied to
    Please explain Mr Shaw, how can you till your 18 – 20 year old voters that there is a future pension via this oil dependent investment scam?

    • Stuart Munro 4.1

      Kiwisaver is a crock – it was supposed to be invested to create wealth and jobs in the local economy – but ended up without such rules. No fee constraints, and abundant fraudsters mean no responsible government would have had anything to do with it.

    • weka 4.2

      It’s not that hard to understand. I don’t know what Shaw’s personal beliefs are on this, but the GP positioning makes sense because if they pushed hard on Peak Oil and its implications they’d not be in parliament. If they work with the limits of the system they can shift the culture in the right direction and hopefully put NZ in front of a window of opportunity.

      You can’t get from here to there directly because most NZers won’t believe things are so serious. Instead, push on divestment, and gain enough power to start talking about steady state economies or the power down from a position of power inside the mainstream. As you know yourself, talking about the those things from the outside or when people aren’t ready to hear or when the leap is too big, doesn’t lead to mass change (although I think your previous work on this has influenced the culture too, for the better).

      Of course what you really mean is that you now personally believe that we’re all going to die and I’m guessing you are misusing Woodley’s post to support your assertions.

      • Robert Atack 4.2.1

        Weka
        You are condoning the greeds continued lies about the environment, and their continued promotion of everything that actually destroys the environment ( well the human friendly one we all need to survive with)
        Go figure ?
        Where is the environment in the environmental party?
        Like I keep saying the greeds only contact with the environment, is when they fly through it
        The greeds have been covering up the facts, since there fist public statement.
        Facts like maybe a blue ocean event in the Arctic next month? Leading to maybe massive human extinction CH4 ‘events’, or drought effected wheat crops failing this northern summer, both of which are going to mean maybe billions of deaths.
        You are a sad excuse for a thinking person, if that is what you picture yourself as, more like a heifer being milked for a fool.

        • weka 4.2.1.1

          You are calling me a liar and a useless thinker but you in the same comment you tell lies about the Greens and can’t address the issues raised?

          As you know from previous discussions you and I don’t differ much on how serious the situation is. Where we differ is that I don’t confuse theory with fact (so my ‘we might go extinct’ vs your assertion that we will despite that not being set in stone), and I’m work with people where they are at whereas you want people to get from A to Z in one big leap. I haven’t abandoned the earth and I won’t, whatever we can do is worthwhile. It’s never too late to care.

          You seem very out of touch with what the Greens do, here you go,

      • Robert Atack 4.2.2

        And are you saying you are some sort of elitist person, who is above the masses, who you think should be kept in the dark and fed bullshit?
        That it is only you and the wanker greeds that can handle the truth ?
        You might need to go see a shrink M8, I think you must be mentally disturbed??
        “I know (a little bit) and think no one else should be told” ???
        There must be a name for that type of mental affliction ?? … I know … Green politician.
        You are condoning lairs and fools, what dose that make you?
        A fucking piss arse excuse for a person that is for sure.

        [you’ve been here long enough to know that direct attacks on authors are against the rules. I’m banning you until after the election period because I don’t want my moderator time wasted while things are so busy over the next few months. Back 24 Nov – weka]

        • Robert Guyton 4.2.2.1

          Robert! Please don’t be so unpleasant toward our respected friend, weka and please don’t call the Greens demeaning names – the world may be about to end, but there’s no need to abandon our manners altogether.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 4.3

      Kiwisaver is not an investment, its a tax which contributers may or may not get a benefit from in the future.

      Sounds like a crock to me

  5. Herodotus 5

    After reading the PREFU- how is it that for the next 4 years; GDP growth is expected to exceed 12% Inflation is 7.4% and yet the average wage is to increase 11.5%. Should it not be in the vicinity of 20% or moving to $70k p.a. ? No wonder we have announcements of the govt increasing WFF, Accommodation allowances, increasing subsidies for doctors. All items that an economy with good wage growth would be met by Good Wages !!!

  6. Andre 6

    Laughed so hard I had to pause the vid a couple times coz I couldn’t breathe. Alex Jones in Seattle…

    • joe90 6.1

      Burn.

      Hey, @SeattlePD, I'm seeing vids of Alex Jones on Seattle streets yelling at folks. Is this under investigation, are there incident reports?— Dominic Holden (@dominicholden) August 18, 2017

      We haven't received any official reports. As far as we know that could be an actor playing Alex Jones.— Seattle Police Dept. (@SeattlePD) August 18, 2017

  7. Adrian 7

    John Banks story in the Herald, is he going to be prosecuted for years of dodging his obligations to Social Wefare about failure to pay for what appears to be his illegitimate son.
    And the fraud perpetrated on a deceived stepfather who actually met his obligations 50 years ago.
    5 bucks a week multiplied by 50 years of inflation and interest should be a tidy sum, then just jail the hypocritical bastard.

  8. greywarshark 8

    I am most concerned to read an item about Australian controls against NZ. According to this item, NZs living as permanent citizens in Australia will be denied re-entry to Australia if they leave the country. So for NZs it means that they can never come back for a visit, or go outside Australian borders. I didn’t realise that their rules were so draconian, bad as they have been shown to be.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/337851/don-t-want-as-many-kiwi-australians-you-got-it

    ‘Each country applies its own rules to the entitlements of citizens from the other country. Australians moving to New Zealand acquire the full rights of residents in New Zealand after reasonably short waiting periods (one year before voting, two years before getting social security) and can apply directly for citizenship.

    However, since a legal change was introduced by Australia in 2001, New Zealanders moving across the Tasman are denied a pathway to citizenship, unless they can acquire a skills-based permanent visa.

    They may be living in Australia permanently, but their visa is regarded as temporary. It is dependent on the maintenance of New Zealand citizenship and expires whenever they leave the country.

  9. Dspare 9

    Does anyone know much about; Stephen Selwood, and; Infrastructure New Zealand (of which he is the chairman)? Googling it didn’t give me much, and the NBR stuff was behind a paywall. They seem to be a pack of PPP touts, some of who are proud of their involvement with Wiri.

    Senior doctors should stick to surgery and keep out of the Dunedin Hospital rebuild.

    That is the view of Infrastructure New Zealand chief executive Stephen Selwood, who took exception to the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists opposing a public-private hospital… Mr Selwood said the doctors’ union focused on overseas PPP failures, but not the successes.

    ”[Senior doctors] consistently quote the ones that go wrong. You never hear them quoting the ones that have gone right.”…

    Senior doctors’ union executive director Ian Powell hit back at Mr Selwood’s comments.

    ”This is a propaganda response from a self-interested private industry group whose members include those who would profit from public-private partnerships.”

    ”It is probably an unintended compliment that the concerns of senior doctors are worrying their vested interests.

    ”It also suggests that there are private interests keen to rake profits out of the new hospital building.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/health/ppp-proponent-irked-opposition

    https://infrastructure.org.nz/Our-Board

    • tracey 9.1

      What would doctors know about what is needed in a hospital building

    • McFlock 9.2

      Was just reading that.

      I loved the bit about how doctors only mentioned the ones that went wrong – what does infrastructure NZ regard as an acceptable failure rate for hospitals – shit, don’t answer that, lol…

      As a lobbyist he’s a bit shit, it seems. A prepared rant, and that’s the best he can come up with.

    • Pat 9.3

      ”[Senior doctors] consistently quote the ones that go wrong. You never hear them quoting the ones that have gone right.”…

      …and id be very interested to know the proportions, I suspect more go wrong than right, some very wrong…and of course when they do we know who’s going to bail them out and it aint the “private” in PPP.

    • ”[Senior doctors] consistently quote the ones that go wrong. You never hear them quoting the ones that have gone right.”

      That might be because there isn’t any.

  10. weka 10

    Astute analysis of the problems with Gareth Morgan, from Stephanie Rodgers.

    https://bootstheory.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/the-evidence-gareth-morgan-doesnt-want-to-see/

  11. Muttonbird 11

    Enrolments surging which is a good sign for a change of government.

    Even noted centrist, Bryce Edwards, considers the driver of this to be the ‘Jacinda effect’.

    “Suddenly there is a leader of a major political party that seems to resonate with the wider public and especially with youth.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/337898/surge-in-voter-enrolments-as-printed-roll-date-lapses

    • tracey 11.1

      Great news. It is not civics classes people need, it is a reason to engage.

      • weka 11.1.1

        Going by the conversations about Ōhāriu and apparent lack of understanding about the basics of MMP, I think we need civics classes as well 😉

        • tracey 11.1.1.1

          Fair point. Am pretty sure we have a pretty high turnout amongst Western countries. Interestingly the morning after Turei resigned a friend was teaching second year youth workers about the importance of advocacy. Not a single student knew what she meant when she said “let’s discuss the Turei situation”

          • weka 11.1.1.1.1

            Wow. That’s tertiary students right?

          • Macro 11.1.1.1.2

            Mind you… I have been reading a book on the development of Social justice – from early civilizations up until the present day.
            The lecturer (at Berkley) asked his class in Social Justice – who were taking the subject you understand – so should have had an inkling as to what the topic was about – “What do you understand to be Social Justice?” Almost all thought it had something to do with crime and punishment. This is in a country that has Civics as a compulsory subject.

            • McFlock 11.1.1.1.2.1

              Well, if he asked at the start of the class, it means he had something to teach them. If he asked at the end of the course, it meant he taught them nothing 🙂

            • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.2.2

              Having compulsory civics doesn’t mean that they have a good curriculum to go with it.

              We have civics in NZ schools now but it really doesn’t appear to be working too well.

              • KJT

                Schools are not allowed to teach about debt, because the Banks didn’t like it.
                Schools are not allowed to Teach about work rights and unions, because employers don’t like it.
                Schools are not allowed to teach civics and political history, because the right wing don’t like it.

                The buzz word meme was that by teaching children about the real world, we were “preaching left wing propaganda”.

  12. Muttonbird 12

    Broken system. It must be fixed. These stories are real and all over the country every day and especially with those waking up at 4am in a panic about what the day brings.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/337874/beneficiaries-feel-bite-of-palmerston-north-rental-scarcity

    Let’s fix it, let’s do this.

    • gsays 12.1

      on botanical road and in and around highbury in palmy, there are big empty sections that used to have state houses on them.
      they have laid vacant for years. i can not be sure how long ago the state houses were pulled down but it must be around 10 years.
      maybe we have elections every year if this is what it takes to get houses and bridges built.

  13. Muttonbird 13

    Watkins goes full noise backing the Nats here accusing Labour to have backtracked from tax announcements when in reality there were no announcements at all. Labour have never said they will raise income tax for high earners, and Labour have always excluded the family home from capital gains and in fact they have not announced a capital gains tax at all from which to back down from,but you’d never know it reading Watkins’ article.

    The greedy elite who Watkins and National represent are always going to be fearful of a searching look into the way they ‘organise their affairs’ because they might not be able to write off their next holiday to the Maldives.

    The article even suggests Ardern not ruling out a rise to GST is a backdown!

    What wank. I think Steven Joyce just gave her a brown paper envelope…

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96089391/ground-shifts-under-election-campaign

    • tracey 13.1

      Given our hospitals… poverty… dirty water… climate change…and other stuff that Nats have overseen where is the holding their feet to the fire?

    • Bearded Git 13.2

      Yes terrible non-factual article by Watkins, also choosing the worst possible pic of Jacinda to go with it which was blown up as the main online pic for a while. The dirty attacks on Jacinda’s Labour have started. (She was very good on Hoskin’s show this AM though.)

      Meanwhile the predictable rugby-related bribes are coming out from National-now offering $179m for the CHCH stadium. It’s amazing they can have the gall to sell-off state houses to fund rugby stadiums.

      Couple the above with the sensible decision of the GP to run a candidate in Ohariu, being treated as some kind of devious “bombshell” (Paddy Gower reaches new heights of inanity with his article on this today) and the MSM has a good solid day of political right-wing bias and lies.

  14. AB 14

    Cameron Bagrie on RNZ this morning concerning the surplus “we have done the hard yards” … “we are in good shape”
    Now I am pretty certain that Cameron will have done no hard yards at all.
    Whereas the guy in Dunedin who was diagnosed with prostate cancer but had to wait 6 months for a biopsy due to underfunded services and may now die earlier? Yep – he’s done the hard yards to generate the surplus and plenty more hard yards to come.
    And then I realised why the things Bagrie said were manipulative hogwash. It’s because there is no “we” any more.

    • McFlock 14.1

      well said

    • Sans Cle 14.2

      “We” the bankers, he meant.
      I get tired of private financiers (bankers) trotted out in the media, as if they were some impartial observer.
      “They” the bankers have actually done a fine job of indebting “us” the New Zealanders, and our businesses, such that the profits from our work/labour/businesses goes to them…..think mortgage andinterest payments, and every time we swipe an eftpos card….amongst other things they gain from.

  15. tracey 15

    Cynical much? Am surprised on such a lovely day Nicky Wagner isnt out on the water

    i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96094257/live-120m-for-new-christchurch-stadium

  16. eco Maori/kiwi 16

    I will make one last statement on my situation to everyone that is viewing my post that are not in the no.
    If what I said was fabricated then why was it deleted so fast!!!!!!!!!!.
    Now I will stick to Politics

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • weka 16.1

      It’s not that you posted something you had fabricated, it’s that the site owners have no way of knowing what was true and what wasn’t. If you posted something defamatory, it needs to be removed. If you posted something potentially defamatory and we have no way to tell, then it needs to be removed.

      I think sticking the politics is a good idea.

  17. AsleepWhileWalking 17

    :https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/96067676/landlords-v-tenants-how-to-live-in-a-house

    One landlord comments people need to learn how to budget to pay for essentials (rent I assume). Makes some other semi valid points but is out of touch with how much work has to be done to pay atrocious rents.

    Like second and third jobs…by the way, why is LABOUR not showing off their policy to ditch secondary tax?? Whomever came up with that clearly understands our community and how secondary tax kicks the shit out of people. This is imho the best policy of the election and should be put out their for everyone to see.

    • tracey 17.1

      This is as close as stuff or herald are getting to election stories. We keep telling young people to read/watch the news but if they went to msm to find out about this election they coukd be forgiven for thinking it isnt a month away

  18. Tracey 18

    ” Exxon’s internal communications broadly acknowledged that global warming is “real, human-caused, serious and solvable,” the research found.

    About 80% of Exxon’s internal documents that were examined acknowledged that climate change is both real and human-caused, compared with just 12% of advertorials published in the op-ed pages of the Times. Doubt was expressed by 81% of Exxon’s advertorials. ”

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/23/investing/exxon-misled-climate-change-harvard-study/index.html

  19. tracey 19

    ” Exxon’s internal communications broadly acknowledged that global warming is “real, human-caused, serious and solvable,” the research found.

    About 80% of Exxon’s internal documents that were examined acknowledged that climate change is both real and human-caused, compared with just 12% of advertorials published in the op-ed pages of the Times. Doubt was expressed by 81% of Exxon’s advertorials. ”

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/23/investing/exxon-misled-climate-change-harvard-study/index.html

  20. Muttonbird 20

    Following the use of the Waterview tunnel for party promotional purposes, the rushed announcement of a new Hospital for Dunedin, and bashing their way unannounced onto a public railway station for a transport policy launch, the Nats continue to show arrogant entitleitis. This time using the supposedly neutral Treasury PREFU to promote the National Party. And all this in an election period.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/did-treasury-break-election-rules.html

  21. lprent 22

    Oops – updated SSL certificates

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