Open mike 24/09/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 24th, 2012 - 114 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

114 comments on “Open mike 24/09/2012 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    24 September 2012 at 6:14 am

    The Coal Miners march to parliament tomorrow will be a political test for New Zealand’s Parliamentary Environmental Party the Greens.

    Will they be up for the challenge?

    Can the Greens make common cause with these workers?

    Or will the Green Party MPs stand on the sidelines, defensive and impotent and leave the field free for the venal and opportunist, drill it, mine it, frack it lobby, to co-opt this workers movement for justice to their profit driven anti humanity ends?

    Spring Creek miner and union delegate Trevor Bolderson said the plan showed the West Coast mine was viable, but the Government would need to provide some financial support to get the mine through the next couple of years.

    “We’re travelling to Wellington because we want the Government to understand what closing Spring Creek will mean for the local community.”

    The plan was not just about saving jobs, it was about “providing a future for Greymouth”, he said.

    “We’re hoping to make them see that the economic and human cost of closing Spring Creek would be unconscionable.”

    Huntly East miner and union delegate Brian Lynch said the long-term damage to his community could be just as great if the Government did not step up.

    “Solid Energy’s proposal to cancel the Huntly East ventilation project is a very risky and short-term cost-saving strategy that could force the mine to stop production within two years.

    “If Huntly East closes the community will suffer a body blow, and the downstream effects on the Glenbrook steel mill could be even greater . . . we’ll be encouraging the Government to see the bigger picture.”

    The miners will arrive at Parliament at 12pm tomorrow.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7719822/Last-ditch-bid-to-save-mine-jobs

    Will the Greens be on the steps of parliament tomorrow at lunchtime to greet the miners and their representatives?

    Will the Greens stand with these workers in demanding that the government put serious money into investing in these workers and their families and saving their communities from the failure of the coal industry?

    Will the Greens go further and confidently speak from the platform to argue the case that these communities are finished anyway if they stick with coal, and that this money would better instead be used to support these workers into long term viable above ground green industry jobs?

    Will the Green MPs have the courage to stand up before this hard and admittedly sceptical audience to expose the coal industry’s lies that the enviromental movement is the anti-jobs and anti-worker lobby?

    Will the Greens take this unique opportunity to point out to these mine workers facing unemployment and hardship for their families, that it is a glaring self evident fact, that it is the fossil fuel lobby that cares nothing for jobs or workers? (Just as the fossil fuel lobby couldn’t care less about the environment or even these workers safety if it gets in the way of making profits out them).

    • Dr Terry 1.1
      24 September 2012 at 2:50 pm

      Jenny, what is your gripe with the Greens? You sure do appear to be prejudging them. Are you implying that Labour (whom you omit to mention) will be “on the job in force”? How about we wait until tomorrow comes!

      • Jenny 1.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 8:00 pm

        Jenny, what is your gripe with the Greens?

        Dr Terry

        Terry I have no gripe with the Greens. In fact I sincerely hope that they do very well tomorrow.

        As for not mentioning Labour, (or National). When it comes to, deep sea drilling, or coal mining, or fracking, you could slip a cigarette paper between party policy between these two when it comes to supporting these outmoded and dangerous climate damaging industries. I expect them both to try to make political capital in promising these workers huge future expansion in coal mining in this country, when the facts are, that such promises are simply not sustainable.

        As the parliamentary party for the environment, the Greens must have a different approach – Care for the natural environment, balanced with protection of the human environment.

        My fear is that in a highly charged emotional atmosphere like this protest at the steps of parliament is likely to be, that the Greens may be intimidated in not even trying to make common cause with these workers. The danger being – if the Greens let their voice be pushed to the sidelines tomorrow, they will be made a scapegoat for the fossil fuel industry’s own inability to provide secure employment.

        At the very least, the Greens need to be there, to be able to defend themselves from any attempts at low political misdirection and dishonest scapegoating, by political opportunists of the rightwing fossil fuel lobby.

        Even better if the Greens can forcefully make their case for permanent and secure sustainable future proofed jobs that can give these communities a real future in a rapidly changing world.

        It will be interesting to see what transpires.

  2. Jenny 2
    24 September 2012 at 6:18 am

    Speaking truth to power

    Matt McCarten hits one out of the park.

    In the War Against Poverty meet a real Kiwi battler.

    Mid-afternoon on RadioLive I caught up with Sam, a “first-time caller” from Kaikohe. Sam told us he’d smashed the windows of his local Work and Income office with a hammer after the staff refused to give him a food parcel. He has been trespassed from the Winz office……

    Matt McCarten Herald on Sunday Sept. 9, 2012

    Read the full story on the Herald website on WHY why this man twice rode 4Km on a mobility scooter to smash WINZ’s office windows. He is a multiple-amputee publicising his hunger-strike, after brutal WINZ policies resulted in his starvation.

    Unfortunately being the technophobe I am having had trouble finding the proper way to link to Matt McCarten’s full article.

    So help me out here people…

    Believe me – ya gotta read this story.

    It has everything, Pathos, Bathos, drama, indomitable courage, and the overcoming of all obstacles to make a life.

    Sam did not commit a meaningless act of vandalism, instead he decided to make a political statement.

    Read why WINZ were too cowardly to lay charges against Sam, which is what he wanted, least his cause get the oxygen of publicity. Instead WINZ in continuing their policy of silently starving him, (and others), to death in quiet desperation, having trespassed him from their office.

    Forget the Para-Olympians this guy is a real Kiwi hero. He deserves to be celebrated in verse and song.

    His marathon should be rerun every year so that his campaign against injustice perfidy and greed in a land of plenty is never forgotten.

    “Can you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men…..”

  3. dave 3
    24 September 2012 at 6:50 am

    yeah, his story ran on 3news last night, what a trooper… whoever his case manager is, and the centre manager should face disciplinary hearings for cruelty and neglect… winz on the whole have a peculiar way of making you feel second class and it is unacceptable

    • David H 3.1
      24 September 2012 at 12:17 pm

      Yeah but they will probably get a bonus usually. But someone will have to pay the piper for this getting out into the eyes of the public, probably the lowest on the totem pole, on to the dole with them, and not replaced due to savings target, so therefore making a saving at the same time. So really a win win for WINZ.

      As for the rest of us? whats next?

      • Jokerman 3.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 12:43 pm

        ‘eres wots next; closing the likes of McKenzie Residential School (along with disability exam support)-eugenics by a 1000 cuts?

  4. Carol 4
    24 September 2012 at 7:58 am

    Not a lot on new on the opposition parties websites since yesterday morning.

    Nanaia Mahuta on the Labour Party site has a statement about the links between poverty and education:

    http://www.labour.org.nz/news/poverty-hurting-our-kids%E2%80%99-education

    A University of Otago study using seven years of longitudinal survey data shows that the longer children are living in poor households the more vulnerable they are to poor social and health outcomes.

    “The sad reality is that far too many Maori and Pasifika children are affected by poverty and a sure sign in our schools is kids not having lunch or unable to concentrate because they are hungry.
    …
    “Labour will work alongside community groups to tackle this issue …
    …
    “I want to encourage principals, parents and community groups to engage with the submission process on the Expert Advisory Group for the Children’s Commission – Solutions to Poverty Report.

    “Submissions are being received until the 12th of October, and you can forward your views to: childpoverty@occ.org.nz or at https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/child_poverty

    No new posts on the Greens site, though the Green Feed on the right side of the screen has recent tweets

    http://www.greens.org.nz/

    – Julie Anne Genter on #justspeak camp for young people wanting a better justice system.

    18 hours ago, Kevin Hague was grumpy because:
    While I’ve been away someone has borrowed my bike, meaning I’ve spent 2hrs putting another one together for my ride

    An NZ Greens tweet on marriage equality:
    Marriage equality sacking is discrimination http://t.co/FBLVFKmA #nzpol

    And Kevin Hague on the tobacco industry:
    The more tobacco industry anti-plain packaging advertising I see, the more excited I am that we are onto a winner

    On the NZ First site, Barbara Stewart has a post from a few days about students with disabilities.:

    http://nzfirst.org.nz/news/students-learning-disabilities-snubbed-government

    New Zealand First is calling on the Government to urgently amend the criteria so that all students with reading and writing disabilities are able to access extra assistance to sit NCEA exams.

    The call comes after it was revealed today that students with “invisible disabilities” such as dyslexia, ADHD and autism are being denied exam assistance by NZQA.

  5. NickS 5
    24 September 2012 at 8:31 am

    Running late for a job, but here’s a good summary + link-fest on the major issue with the recent ENCODE paper:
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/09/23/the-encode-delusion/

    (Which I didn’t pick up fully as I skimmed the paper /herpderp)

    Also I haz another science gripe, but work is at 9am.

  6. Pete 6
    24 September 2012 at 9:00 am

    I’m reposting my comment from Bloggers and ripping off content because I posted it late last night, I put a lot of work into it and I want as many people on here to see it as possible. I won’t make a habit of this:

    I entered the text of each of the last five posts (skipping the General Debates, Open Mikes, Mental Health Breaks and re-posts of YouTube clips etc) on a number of blogs into this readability index calculator. I didn’t include the blog comments. Wikipedia gives a good explanation of what the Flesch-Kincaid test measures. The lower the reading ease, the more complex. A reading ease score of 0.0-30.0 is best understood by university graduates, while 60.0-70.0 should be easily understood by 15 year-olds and 90.0-100.0 by 11 year-olds. The grade level corresponds to the number of years of education required by a reader to understand a passage.

    There seems to be a correlation between the level of comprehension required to understand a post and where the author sits on the political spectrum. It should be remembered, though, that simplicity is not necessarily a vice. Especially when trying to communicate with a large community and trying to persuade them to a particular point of view. Hemmingway, for example, liked short bold sentences.

    Anyway, ranked from most complex to least:

    Bowalley Road Grade: 15.8; Reading ease: 20
    The Standard Grade: 14.4; Reading ease: 36.6
    Gordon Campbell Grade: 14.2; Reading ease: 34.2
    Bryce Edwards Grade: 13.8; Reading ease: 35.2
    Frogblog Grade: 13.2; Reading ease: 38.8
    Public Address Grade: 13; Reading ease: 40.2
    Pundit Grade: 13; Reading ease: 41.2
    Red Alert Grade: 13; Reading ease: 41.2
    Tumeke Grade: 12.6; Reading ease: 40.6
    John Armstrong Grade: 12.4; Reading ease: 40.2
    John Roughan Grade: 12.4; Reading ease: 41
    Whale Oil Grade: 11.6; Reading ease: 49.4
    Kiwiblog Grade: 9.4; Reading ease: 53.8

    A spreadsheet with links to the individual posts and their scores is here.

  7. prism 7
    24 September 2012 at 10:27 am

    Josie Pagani for the left and Deborah Coddington for the right on pollie talk after 11am this morning radionz. Listen to the girls mud wrestle – just have to use your imagination. There might be nothing much that’s cerebral and illuminating from this two.

    • Anne 7.1
      24 September 2012 at 11:42 am

      Radio NZ’s political spot just finished and I give credit where credit is due. Josie Pagani out-classed Deborah Coddington on all fronts. Some might say that wouldn’t be hard, but I was still impressed with the depth of her arguments. Deb baby came across quite shallow in comparison.

      While I’ve contributed my share of criticism towards the Paganis, you have to be fair to Josie… she has been in a difficult place trying to debate on an equal footing with that bully boy Hooton.

      • prism 7.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 12:42 pm

        Anne 7.1
        Yes I was impressed with the points that Josie Pagani made. Deborah C was as expected. Didn’t she get in the news a decade ago for being actually chased by some Roundtable Romeo? Pity he didn’t catch her and haul her off to his lair permanently.

        • Anne 7.1.1.1
          24 September 2012 at 1:17 pm

          Didn’t she get in the news a decade ago for being actually chased by some Roundtable Romeo?

          Yes, it was the one that died about six months ago. Forgotten his name already. He married the
          former ACT president (forgotten her name too) who is currently running the Charter School programme set-up by Banksie boy.

          She’s currently married to some fancy Wellington lawyer whose name also escapes me… 🙂

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      24 September 2012 at 12:01 pm

      China’s in trouble currently. Ongoing social unrest in the interior which is very rarely reported upon. Overoptimistic economic statistics unashamedly falsified. Western consumer demand for Chinese made products nosediving. And then there seem to be a massively wealthy Chinese elite class, a large number of whom seem to be little more than spendthrift kleptocrats. But it looks like the good times are ending as major Chinese frauds are coming to light.

      http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-09-03/thieving-thieves

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/how-chinas-rehypothecated-ghost-steel-just-vaporized-and-what-means-world-economy

      And of course its the ordinary people – even the younger well educated ones – who are getting the shaft from the people in charge. Tricking a younger generation with aspirational talk and then throwing them away.

      http://www.economywatch.com/economy-business-and-finance-news/ant-tribe-china-university-grads-not-finding-jobs.16-02.html

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      24 September 2012 at 3:51 pm

      (testing link moderation)

      The auto-moderator doesn’t like raw links which means you should be reading this.

      • Jokerman 8.2.1
        24 September 2012 at 5:22 pm

        sorry D. i know it shows my comparative ignorance, i only know how to copy and paste a link and i do not understand “this” instructions (all computerese to me)
        if a helpful person with the time could iterate the necessary steps, i will be your friend long time 🙂
        i only studied IT during a second degree (nursing; incomplete due to sociopolitical objections -they tend to bash medical doctors a bit which i found to be unbalanced, all things considered; anti-credentialism is merely a political position for me, i am a realist, most of the time anyway)

        • fatty 8.2.1.1
          24 September 2012 at 10:08 pm

          I just tried to post a step by step explanation of how to do it, but it is difficult to do because as soon as I put in the codes, the words turn blue and it doesn’t make sense.
          I only learnt how to do this a month or so ago, I found this web page easy to understand…keep trying, once you get it, it is easy.
          Just so you know…your post will look very messy before you post it, but once you click ‘submit comment’ the jumble disappears and your chosen words turn neatly blue.

          • BernyD 8.2.1.1.1
            24 September 2012 at 10:11 pm

            I see what u mean , hey lp , i can’t ev
            //(0-0)\\\

            • BernyD 8.2.1.1.1.1
              24 September 2012 at 10:19 pm

              Bastard thing, c what i mean that was 6 of them sheez ur mean M8
              No 4 did not work, ur steakling them M8!
              If I didn’t know better , i’d guess @ the author of that script
              From now on I’m gonna delimit with …..
              ‘skdlthewryijgoehwsjgkphsdfg;phsetor8ghs//////\\***&&&&*!$#$@%#$#!^~(*’
              That’ll catch it M8!
              Try spaces instead M8!

              • BernyD …
                24 September 2012 at 10:25 pm

                I just realiased that one worked M8! 🙂
                Hey heres an idea for ya, might save ya some grief
                Why don’t u use an xml object layer to catch the A tag, it returns and error etc it’s just a comment.
                If ya want a hand just mail me the script
                write in 20 dif languages
                do regexp in my sleep M8!

                • BernyD …
                  24 September 2012 at 10:35 pm

                  Fixed a Chinese char laptop by pure feel once
                  It was all menu driven

                  • BernyD …
                    24 September 2012 at 10:56 pm

                    is it C?, looks like strtok gone wrong too me.
                    if(*(stringvar)==’ ‘){} help much?
                    or …
                    /* a basic strtok, non destructive */
                    while( *(stringvar++)!=0 ) { /*null term*/
                    if((char) *(stringvar)==’ ‘){} help much?
                    }

                  • BernyD …
                    24 September 2012 at 11:21 pm

                    copy to null…
                    while( *(var1) != 0 ) *(var2) = *(var1++);

          • Jokerman 8.2.1.1.2
            25 September 2012 at 9:02 am

            Thankyou. will look into it. 🙂

  9. Jokerman 9
    24 September 2012 at 11:38 am

    anyway,
    from the CNBC coverage of World Economic Forum: China: The Road Ahead (weather forecast)
    (recently moved to an uninsulated house, and man, does it get cold quickly when the clouds come)

    Martin Sorrell-2012 5-yr Plan about domestic consumption (market research emphasized)

    Lee Kai-Fu-social media instrumental role in China’s reforms-“Schrodingers Cat”
    (the authorities do permit freedom of speech on their version of Twitter) and watch it “underwater”
    -the projection of colonialist past by the West will stoke fires of ultra-nationalism
    (“The Rape of Tokyo”?)

    Interesting: Li Daoku-social media disciplining the behaviour of officials and bureaucrats

    China’s “Soft Power”-securing food and resources from areas like Latin America, Africa and M.E

    Ramzan Kadyrov; now there is an interesting man (u gotta long way to go to approach him Gerry)

    “Accent of Money” was excellent imo; plenty of Tulips being erected in Auckland

    • Bored 9.1
      24 September 2012 at 12:16 pm

      “Accent of Money”..Ferguson is a total apologist and poster boy for the status quo. Read his book on Empire, he contends that the benefits outweigh the pain. He is of course seeing it from top down, it is mighty murky looking down to the slaves level.

  10. Uturn 10
    24 September 2012 at 11:52 am

    Can someone explain the gap in realities that a western mind can’t see, in a way that a western mind can understand, that the justifiable reply to Innocence of the Muslims is rioting and killing? I understand the basic insults, I don’t understand how they translate into the reaction we’re seeing.

    • Carol 10.1
      24 September 2012 at 12:01 pm

      Try here Uturn. It’s a complex situation with various interwoben tensions and power-plays and strands of resistance:

      http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/2012918112920274722.html
      Extract from the article:

      There are also geo-political reasons for the recent violence – long-enmity to the West, economic and social unrest, and agent provocateurs in the Muslim world who are trying to destabilise new Arab leadership. Muddying the water may be these provocateurs’ main game, using the film is just a catalyst for their violence.

      Ordinary citizens, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, are caught between these extremes and left shocked by the sudden outpouring of violence, dousing for many what had been the hope of the Arab Spring.

      Many Muslims are genuinely incensed by the “Innocence of Muslims”. They see it as blatant attack on their beloved Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and as part of a series of “attacks” and hatred for their religious sanctity.
      …
      In fact, the overwhelming majority of Muslims do keep away from violence, even if their hearts are torn by deliberate denigration of their Prophet. Britain’s largest Muslim umbrella body, the Muslim Council of Britain (of which I was once head), has called on all parties to halt violence.

      Unfortunately, it is the hotheads and idiots, those who act only from heart and not from head, who fall prey to the agent provocateurs.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 12:10 pm

        Uturn: the western media driven propaganda (directed at us) says that the Muslim reaction is all around this video.

        Of course that’s bullshit. As Carol suggests this is massively more complicated and has been simmering away close to a boil for many months. The much vaunted “Arab Spring” has left disillusionment and disarray while ongoing US support for dictators (and their replacements) as well as continual use of drone strikes and western military personnel in Muslim countries has angered.

      • Jokerman 10.1.2
        24 September 2012 at 12:53 pm

        i am not worthy 🙁

      • Dr Terry 10.1.3
        24 September 2012 at 3:04 pm

        Carol, this is good stuff. The only point I would make is that rather than acting from the heart (so often a caring thing), they are understandably reacting out of raw, bloody, and long frustrated emotion.

    • Bored 10.2
      24 September 2012 at 12:10 pm

      Perhaps Uturn we in the “west” being very used to a cultural and lingual tradition that includes such things as “enlightenment thinking”. Logic based upon our cultural framing / premises are where we view this from. It makes no sense to me that because some “western” trouble maker insults the Prophet that a number of Islamics get beaten / killed, but obviously to them it makes sense. So perhaps the frame of reference for Islamics is different to us and we should be very aware of it when blundering into this type of scenario.

      Have a read of some European Reformation history, you will not be surprised we used to burn heretics alive, and persecute on a faith basis up until the late 1700s. We in the “west” (despite the “Enlightenment”, and probably because of it) sent millions to the gulag or the death camps based upon some skued logic less than 60 years since. Maybe we examine ourselves a little?

    • muzza 10.3
      24 September 2012 at 12:21 pm

      Uturn,

      How about the gap in peopl’es minds that they can’t understand just how “mapped” out all this “chaos” is.

      Most human beings just want to get along, and exist in peace, while being able to provide some sene of security for themselves/family etc. Those with the guns, money and the ability to reek havoc in such ways to “attempt” to make it to look like its “organic” = That’s your gap!

    • Jokerman 10.4
      24 September 2012 at 12:52 pm

      interpretation of the scripture and latent hostility to US/Western oppression?

      “Lawyers, Guns and Money”-Warren Zevon

    • AAMC 10.5
      24 September 2012 at 1:04 pm

      Our Corporate Media lenses have been honed closely into every detail of chaos, but little discussion in the mainstream around all of those who haven’t reacted that way, the development this weekend of the militia’s being turfed out of their bases by more moderate groups, the mascinations going on in a play for the Western created power vacuum – vested interests made sure the right groups saw this obscure clip, or the fact that again we’re dealing with blowback, the people we armed turning the guns on us once we’ve helped them achieve their / our short term goal or the IMF’s Shock Doctrine agenda in these countries and how these populations feel about the same economic “liberalisation” (read theft) they thought they’d thrown out.

      http://world.time.com/2012/09/22/the-revolt-of-benghazis-moderates-will-the-rest-of-libya-follow/

      http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/free-libya-crowds-in-benghazi-rally-against-militias-drive-al-qaeda-out-of-city.html

      http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NI14Dj01.html

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/sep/21/egypt-turmoil-distraction-imf-economic-agenda?CMP=twt_gu

    • BernyD 10.6
      24 September 2012 at 1:07 pm

      Some one insulted their Father bud.
      Happens in a war torn country when you lose all your family.

      • Uturn 10.6.1
        24 September 2012 at 2:16 pm

        Thanks for the links and insight, guys. Who needs the MSM when the TS team is on the case?

        • Huginn 10.6.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 6:15 am

          This is seems to be closer to the mainstream view from where I am in the Middle East:

          ‘Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt and one of the world’s most respected Islamic jurists, has called for greater dialogue and tolerance over the growing challenges created by the explosive growth of social-networking sites such as Twitter and Facebook.

          Too often, Sheikh Ali said, internet users trusted the information they were given without checking the facts and the authenticity of sources.’

          and

          ‘He has called for fellow believers to respond to recent controversial portrayals of Mohammed — which he said “spread hatred” — just like the prophet himself would, “through patience and wisdom.’

          http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/grand-mufti-calls-for-dialogue-about-the-internet
          http://updatednews.ca/2012/09/23/egyptian-sunni-islam-leader-calls-for-peace/

          • Jokerman 10.6.1.1.1
            25 September 2012 at 9:07 am

            excellent. social-networking nonsense will become increasingly state-moderated in our lifetimes, imo. What is going on at present is outraging

    • fatty 10.7
      24 September 2012 at 11:36 pm

      I like this video about the work of Edward Said and his concept of Orientalism.

  11. Bored 11
    24 September 2012 at 11:55 am

    Watched Keiser interview Mr Stallman re Open Source and what it really means. It is fascinating watching if you are attuned to the “corporate takeover” of our freedom.

    http://maxkeiser.com/category/keiser-report-2/

    A couple of questions / concepts from the show:

    1. Banks are “debanking” in the US the bottom 20% of people as they “cost too much to service”…the same is probably happening here. So “Why did we the taxpayer worldwide bail out the banks, yes all 100% of us?????”
    2. ISPs are being forced by legislation in the US which we agree to through our trade agreements etc to suspend users “suspected” of breaking the regs / law. So “Are we guilty until proven innocent, guilty but uncharged etc (all sorts of permutations)? ” All sort of adds up to having our freedoms removed with no redress…..

    Seems to me the corporatist dictatorship has arrived, not a “black shirt” required. Enforced by legislation through the democratic process, our representatives too gullible or too compliant to resist.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1
      24 September 2012 at 12:13 pm

      Its a corporate kleptocracy. It been around for a while, but in the last 10 years it has taken on mammoth proportions. In the US there is no division between the political class and the corporate class.

    • insider 11.2
      24 September 2012 at 12:22 pm

      The introduction of account fees in the 90s was a form of ‘debanking’. Pay your way or go somewhere else was the philosophy.

    • muzza 11.3
      24 September 2012 at 12:26 pm

      All sort of adds up to having our freedoms removed with no redress…..

      Correct, but the redress we have, seems to have been “bred” out of people, they seem to not see/want to see or understand what is going on around them, and what it will mean in coming years.

      Seems to me the corporatist dictatorship has arrived, not a “black shirt” required. Enforced by legislation through the democratic process, our representatives too gullible or too compliant to resist.

      And all the while people nerdle about hoping that one day it will all miraculously change, without them having to get off their arses.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1
        24 September 2012 at 4:24 pm

        Correct, but the redress we have, seems to have been “bred” out of people, they seem to not see/want to see or understand what is going on around them, and what it will mean in coming years.

        IMO, one of the downsides to an overly complex society is that people really don’t know what’s going on around them because it is too complex. This opens the way for the corruption and dictatorship we see today* as these immoral actions can easily be hidden within the complexity.

        * We see it today because it’s become so commonplace over the decades that it can no longer be hidden.

    • prism 11.4
      24 September 2012 at 12:34 pm

      Bored 11
      Being compliant and being corrupt – there is probably not a great degree between them. The hint of an after politics directorship, consultancy etc may be enough to sway the decision in favour of the corporate and bye bye first thoughts of service to the people and the country.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.5
      24 September 2012 at 4:16 pm

      Enforced by legislation through the democratic process, our representatives too gullible or too compliant to resist.

      Elected dictatorship. Our representatives no longer represent us – if they ever did. They now represent the rich and the corporates.

      BTW, which actual post were you referring to?

      Oh, it was this one.

  13. prism 13
    24 September 2012 at 12:38 pm

    The page just vanished before – closed by remote server and a list of addresses with the word standard in them.

  14. Herbert 14
    24 September 2012 at 12:57 pm

    And on Stuff comes the headline, Key: ‘Ignorance takes us nowhere’ Just for a moment I was thinking he was talking about the government’s policy on poverty, or climate change, or maybe John Banks….
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7721069/Key-on-National-Standards-Ignorance-takes-us-nowhere

  15. Jokerman 15
    24 September 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Even Peter Williams (MSM) has been instructed to utter-“Oil prices are set to double in the next decade” …ridin’ along on my push-bike baby…

    The Rebels have moved their Command Centre from the Turkish border into Syria

    “Revolution” – John Butler Trio
    “Walk the World”- Heather Nova

    suns out, better do some gardening. Have a great day, wherever you all are (unless you are a Nact supporter, then Just do the best you can i s’pose)

  16. Carol 16
    24 September 2012 at 1:53 pm

    BREAKING NEWS: GCSB intercepted Dotcom’s communications:

    PM launches inquiry saying he was only informed of this a couple of days ago. I thought the PM was always kept informed of such things?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7722082/PM-orders-Dotcom-spy-inquiry

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836179

    • Carol 16.1
      24 September 2012 at 2:01 pm

      Kim Dotcom tweeted “The NZ equivalent of the CIA has spied on me UNLAWFULLY”.

      “I’m now a real life James Bond villain in a real life political copyright thriller scripted by Hollywood & the White House,” Dotcom tweeted.

      Is this a movie Sir PJ will be rushing to direct for his Warners’ mates?

      • Treetop 16.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 2:22 pm

        Key being transparent for a change.

        • Jackal 16.1.1.1
          24 September 2012 at 3:44 pm

          Not really! Key has only launched an investigation by the Government Communications Security Bureau because he has to do something. The GCSB is his baby and any results could be highly questionable. As Ira Rothken said; “It all depends on what the results are,” and I wouldn’t be surprised if there is little to no transparency involved at all.

          • Treetop 16.1.1.1.1
            24 September 2012 at 4:00 pm

            The finger can only be pointed at Key. I now know where the threshold is with Key. I do not think it is the diversion Key wants concerning Banks.

            I do not disagree with your comment either.

      • Jokerman 16.1.2
        24 September 2012 at 2:22 pm

        you may have considered my poetic emphasis on the primacy of Prophets then
        (blessings and peace be upon their names)

        Prophecy-meta-physics-values-ethics-behaviour-ethics-values-metaphysics-Prophecy
        (well, i am still at peace with that, although “true” philosophers may find it too simple)

        i am only a gardener, after all, which is what i am off to do now 🙂

    • deuto 16.2
      24 September 2012 at 2:03 pm

      Will wonders never cease! Lunch ended up all over my keyboard, when I read the Stuff article on this, still laughing but not really surprised having had some dealings with people from that agency.

      The Herald has a longer article – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836179

      As Poisson says at 17 below, what a mad hatters tea party!

      • Carol 16.2.1
        24 September 2012 at 2:30 pm

        And Shearer is calling Key on it – for once pretty quick off the mark:

        http://www.labour.org.nz/news/key-must-come-clean-on-his-knowledge-of-dotcom

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1209/S00364/key-must-come-clean-on-his-knowledge-of-dotcom.htm

        “He is responsible as Prime Minister for signing off all intercept warrants by GSCB. While it’s been revealed that ‘some’ bugging was done illegally, it is not credible to think that other monitoring by the agency was not signed by the Prime Minister before the raid was carried out.

        “This is not about national security. This is about John Key’s own word and whether he has told the truth to New Zealanders,” said David Shearer.

        And NZ First also has a press release out.

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1209/S00362/pm-shows-mega-disregard-to-ministerial-roles.htm

        • deuto 16.2.1.1
          24 September 2012 at 2:45 pm

          As you say, for once Shearer is quick of the mark and a well worded press release which gets right to the heart of the matter – the fact that Key as PM is the responsible Minister and is supposed to sign off on all intercepts.

          Question Time tomorrow will be interesting, but I expect that Key will try and fob off questions on the grounds that it is a matter before the High Court and/or an investigation is underway. Hopefully Key’s claim to have know nothing until the day before the raid in his interview on Campbell Live will come back to haunt him. Must watch CL tonight – Campbell’s quisical look at the end of that interview has always had me wondering what else he knew but was holding back on.

          Hope the “Ignorance gets us nowhere” line is also played back on Key!

          Also liked the NZF press release which takes a different tack to Shearer’s. Peters will be loving it – and yet some people think that NZF could work with National next term – don’t think so, imo.

          • Carol 16.2.1.1.1
            24 September 2012 at 2:49 pm

            Yes, it’s either, Key was not telling the truth (Labour) or he has been slack and failed to carry out effective oversight of the GCSB (NZ First)

            • deuto 16.2.1.1.1.1
              24 September 2012 at 2:51 pm

              Exactly. Stuff now has an updated article saying the Dotcom’s lawyers say it is too early to know how this will affect his case. Halfway down the article also states the Judge Winklemann has called another hearing on Wednesday on the search warrants….

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7722082/Dotcom-lawyers-eye-spy-inquiry

            • gobsmacked 16.2.1.1.1.2
              24 September 2012 at 3:11 pm

              Key will probably have to resort to the “bit sloppy” line.

              There’s no way he’ll admit lying when he said he’d never heard of Dotcom. Even though that’s the more likely reason.

              • mickysavage …
                24 September 2012 at 3:26 pm

                Already it does not ring true that Key had not heard about dot com.  He has to be fibbing, big ones too, in the vicinity of liar liar pants on fire fibs …

            • Treetop 16.2.1.1.1.3
              24 September 2012 at 3:49 pm

              I think both Labour and NZ First are right.

              Remember back to the Goff situation (about the Mossad briefing in August 2011) and the SIS; Key is the SIS minister. Key just does not learn

          • Te Reo Putake 16.2.1.1.2
            24 September 2012 at 3:02 pm

            Winston wins Quote of the Day:
             
            “Mr Key appears not to care about the security of New Zealanders, and is instead more concerned with photo opportunities, three-way handshakes at rugby games, and prancing down fashion runways.”
             
             

      • Poission 16.2.2
        24 September 2012 at 2:54 pm

        This is going to be bigger then Ben Hur its being picked up US blogs (faster the mainstream it seems) it will go viral. Key needs a distraction ( A trade off ) Solid Energy perhaps? it needs equivalence weighting.To much negative news and its only Monday.

    • muzza 16.3
      24 September 2012 at 3:10 pm

      Surely the question is – Why now, and where is the pressure coming from.

    • Dr Terry 16.4
      24 September 2012 at 3:16 pm

      Carol, a man who does not “read” important reports is just as likely to “hear nothing” (unless selecting only that which is complimentary).

    • Draco T Bastard 16.5
      24 September 2012 at 4:27 pm

      I thought the PM was always kept informed of such things?

      He is as the PM is the head of the intelligence services in NZ.

  17. Poission 17
    24 September 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Curiouser and curiouser!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7722082/PM-orders-Dotcom-spy-inquiry

    There is a lot more to come on this or to put it another way the saga of mad hatters tea party is a feast to be had.

  18. Fortran 18
    24 September 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Can’t wait to hear policy of the next Labour/Greens/Winston Government as to who is going to pay for all the largess once the TOW deals have been settled, so far and in the future.
    This will be along with more money for everybody by way of new Winz benefits, along with new child benefits.
    School meals (not only breakfast)
    Keeping coal mines open (and not earning).
    Keeping Railways and workshops open..
    New minimum wage –
    Keeping all schools open and reducing class ratio.
    Reducing the exchange rate by control.
    Paying for water, air, and flora and fauna.
    No fracking or mineral exploration (no new coal mines).
    Changing the fishing quota and not allowing foreign crewed vessels.
    Paying for Auckland’s rail links and new lines.
    Reducing fuel costs.
    Getting rid of Overseas Banks.
    And continuing to fund taxpayer money to Christchurch (to those uninsured also).
    Am sure other expectations can be explored.

    • Te Reo Putake 18.1
      24 September 2012 at 2:59 pm

      Well, we could stop borrowing $330 million a week to subsidise the rich for starters. Then we can probably afford most of the things on your list, Fortran.

    • Rob 18.2
      24 September 2012 at 3:03 pm

      Also please add buying Fisher & Paykal appliances and maybe the crafar farms after sale and also buying back the public share of the any assets. Quite a bit really.

    • Dv 18.3
      24 September 2012 at 3:50 pm

      1billion for scf

    • Draco T Bastard 18.4
      24 September 2012 at 4:36 pm

      Actually, that’s quite easy. Print the money and tax appropriately.

    • ianmac 18.5
      24 September 2012 at 4:37 pm

      Mmmm. Tax cuts for the rich versus all the items on your list. Let me think. Mmmmm

    • millsy 18.6
      24 September 2012 at 7:01 pm

      Sounds OK to me.

    • mike e 18.7
      24 September 2012 at 9:37 pm

      Fartrain! It will work better than the brighter future
      School meals < $19million
      Railway work shops open< $20million
      New minimum wage will increase job numbers treasury figures and increase tax take!
      Reducing exchange rate will increase jobs profits and tax take
      Paying for water right wing councils already want to some are!
      Why have new coal mines when you are closing them now!
      Fish and crews means our fish stocks will stay higher making them more sustainable more money for our economy in the long run!
      Rail links and line will mean we can keep Infrastructure costs down and are between 18 and 50 times cheaper than private cars that's not including the cost of owning and maintaining a car!
      Like the above reducing fuel costs will bring down our balance of payments deficit making our currency cheaper and more competitive!
      Getting rid of overseas banks that won't happen they are way to powerful
      We are already paying for CHCH we are also paying the interest on the $10 billion bill!

  19. 58 and wondering still 19
    24 September 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Im constantly amazed as to how Keys govt in the house refer to the faults of the previous govt as being Labours when they ,National, are the previous govt or was the election such a non event that they still feel no sense of responsibility for the shit they are dumping on those who have no way forward under this second term of right wing bullshit that is so far out of date in its policies that america will probably have to take us over to make sure we are still on the page over where we live in the world .
    How can Key profess that he has not read the police report on Banks , is he not the minister in charge of the SIS ? Hello .

    Then we have Bennett and her continual bee in her bonnet policies .Does she forget that poor people need a break from their toddlers as we as the rich and being poor walkin them to a child care and broadening the kids outlook cant be too costly because it only takes seven years to set a childs behaviour for life
    How fucked up is her sense of values ?

    • Dr Terry 19.1
      24 September 2012 at 3:20 pm

      America take us over? Who knows? It looks very much like they will have troops stationed here soon.

      • Carol 19.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 5:01 pm

        Interesting that Phil Goff reckons that NZ should not give up the independence developed since the nuclear free stance. And he reckons the National government won’t go that far either:

        http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/09/24/visit-by-leon-panetta/

        Building on progress over the last decade, it was a welcome further move. A strong and warm relationship with the US makes sense given its influence in the world and shared commitments on values like democracy and human rights.

        But from my and Labour’s perspective, it does not place us on a path to resume alliance commitments, or nuclear ship visits.

        New Zealand has moved on from there. Labour’s strong belief in speaking with an independent voice based on our values and interests has become part of the mainstream New Zealand belief system.

        That’s why even though it might prefer to do so, National won’t openly signal a move back to alliances and nuclear ship visits.

        As a small country, New Zealand gains respect and influence not by echoing anyone else’s voice but by taking considered and principled stands on international issues.

        Nuclear ship visits, return to ANZUS or permanent stationing of US troops here would not be compatible with New Zealand’s desire to be seen as having an independent voice.

        Rejecting permanent stationing is good, but it leaves things open to temporary stationing of US troops here.

        • muzza 19.1.1.1
          25 September 2012 at 7:30 am

          Building on progress over the last decade, it was a welcome further move. A strong and warm relationship with the US makes sense given its influence in the world and shared commitments on values like democracy and human rights.

          Democracy and Human Rights….Phil shows he has actually lost his mind completely!

          Send in the drones Goff they call him these days….Thats what Phil means when he refers to democracy and human rights.As I have posted some time back, Phil was on the radio saying that America should drone Syria, he was positively begging them to do so!

          Piss off Phil you career leech, have the UN not offered you the crony career politician role yet!

      • Vicky32 19.1.2
        25 September 2012 at 7:16 pm

        America take us over? Who knows? It looks very much like they will have troops stationed here soon.

        Please, nooooooooooooooooooooo! That just must not happen…

  20. Richard Christie 20
    24 September 2012 at 3:07 pm

    I urge readers to take half an hour and read journalist Keith Hunter’s website story COUQ and his invitation to ex- Detective inspector Bruce Hutton to sue.

    http://www.hunterproductions.co.nz/?page=news#COPS1

    The really murky stuff begins at episode 10.

    Hunter’s book should be getting nationwide attention.

    Something is very wrong here. Our media are suspiciously silent on recent developments in NZ’s greatest judicial disgrace.

    • Jokerman 20.1
      24 September 2012 at 5:40 pm

      very sad this matter ( i choose not to watch the “investigator ” . his delivery puts me off
      (same as that fool minority-basher Wishart; read a couple of his books and thought puh lease already!)

      • Richard Christie 20.1.1
        24 September 2012 at 7:39 pm

        Agreed re Wishart, but Wishart is a serial conspiracy theorist, this appears to be a deliberate attempt to seriously mislead the NZ public, using public money, and the most likely instigators would appear to be the NZ police.

  21. Jackal 21
    24 September 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Ignoring child poverty won’t make it go away

    Unless you’re an Ostrich with your head firmly buried in the sand, you’ll be aware that New Zealand has a pervasive and growing poverty problem that is largely being ignored by the current government…

  22. Te Reo Putake 22
    24 September 2012 at 5:57 pm

    350 jobs gone at Spring Creek, 65 at Huntly East. Bastards.

  23. Colonial Viper 23
    24 September 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Infographic: Financialised Pretend and Extend described in one easy picture

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2012/09-2/20120923_cric.png

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