Open mike 25/04/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 25th, 2014 - 201 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

open-mike-anzac-poppies2Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

201 comments on “Open mike 25/04/2014 ”

  • Comments are now closed

    • Paul 1.1
      25 April 2014 at 7:16 am

      Narcissism.

      “Shane Jones’ partner, Dot Pumipi, says the MP’s greatest fear in making the decision to resign was that his phone would stop ringing and he would get withdrawal symptoms from the sudden lack of attention.”

      • Paul 1.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 7:19 am

        And this question says so much about the quality of journalism in 2014 New Zealand.

        “Asked whether she was to Mr Jones’ career what Yoko Ono was to John Lennon’s, she laughed and said she had told him she’d support him whatever he did.”

      • Paul 1.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 7:23 am

        Oh well, if Shane isn’t challenging the supermarkets, its o.k. To shop there again.
        Doesn’t matter if nothing about their practices has actually changed or not.

        “She said there was a further upside to his decision: “I can go back to Countdown.””

      • Mainlander 1.1.3
        25 April 2014 at 8:18 am

        How exactly is that narcissim, im sure that would be a natural reaction for most people leaving a high profile job, how about instead of crying on here you go read Claire Trevetts article r.e Jones and the Toxic Greens not only is it highly accurate you might actually learn something about the man you have dedicated 5 posts to this morning

        • karol 1.1.3.1
          25 April 2014 at 8:26 am

          Still waiting to hear what Jones had hoped to achieve for the working and unemployed classes – or even for a better NZ generally.

          • tc 1.1.3.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 9:28 am

            What you will not hear is the evidence he possessed on the supermarkets which has vanished along with what little credibility he had with all those working class folks the jonolists allege he was looking out for.

            Well played national and progressive but it’s a double edged sword especially when meddling McCully is involved.

        • Paul 1.1.3.2
          25 April 2014 at 9:39 am

          Greatest fear..the lack of attention.
          That’s narcissism

          • anker 1.1.3.2.1
            25 April 2014 at 3:18 pm

            When is Claire Trevell going move jobs to the print media she is most suited to? I.e., for the Women’s Weekly. Apologies to the Woman’s Weekly. Claire with her puff pieces really belongs with the WW, not as the Deputy Political Editor of the country major newspaper.

            • Paul 1.1.3.2.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 4:25 pm

              I think her content is entirely in keeping with the trivial propaganda sheet that the Herald has become in the past few years. It’s always been a right wing rag, but recently it has descended further into a tabloid telling tales of celebrities and sport.

        • millsy 1.1.3.3
          25 April 2014 at 9:45 am

          The only think toxic is the waste that will be kept out of our rivers when the Greens get into power.

          When your kids are swimming in that nice clean river and breathing clean air, you will have the Greens to thank. They will introduce regulation that stop profit making companies from dumping toxic waste into our rivers and making us all sick.

        • millsy 1.1.3.4
          25 April 2014 at 9:45 am

          The only think toxic is the waste that will be kept out of our rivers when the Greens get into power.

          When your kids are swimming in that nice clean river and breathing clean air, you will have the Greens to thank. They will introduce regulation that stop profit making companies from dumping toxic waste into our rivers and making us all sick.

          • The Lone Haranguer 1.1.3.4.1
            25 April 2014 at 2:43 pm

            “When your kids are swimming ……you will have the Greens to thank. They will introduce regulation that stop profit making companies from dumping toxic waste into our rivers and making us all sick.”

            Does that mean that the Greens now think its okay for non-profit making companies to dump toxic waste into our rivers……?

            Why are the Greens so upset that some companies make profits?

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.3.4.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 3:36 pm

              These companies make private profits for a few, while pushing the costs of their dirty business on to the local community.

              So you are happy with that situation, but many including the Greens are not.

        • millsy 1.1.3.5
          25 April 2014 at 9:46 am

          The only think toxic is the waste that will be kept out of our rivers when the Greens get into power.

          When your kids are swimming in that nice clean river and breathing clean air, you will have the Greens to thank. They will introduce regulation that stop profit making companies from dumping toxic waste into our rivers and making us all sick.

          Did you used to swim in the river when you were a kid? Why do you want to deprive kids today of what you had?

          Where is your decency?

          • srylands 1.1.3.5.1
            25 April 2014 at 11:13 am

            If you go to the back country the rivers are pristine. Plus most kids swim in aquatic centres and urban pools. How about some cost-benefit analysis of what you are proposing?

            • millsy 1.1.3.5.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 5:03 pm

              Im sure the good people of West Virginia would see the fact that they have to boil their drinking water as a big cost.

            • McFlock 1.1.3.5.1.2
              25 April 2014 at 5:04 pm

              CBA?
              “100% pure”: $15bn per year
              When you hit that in costs of not putting shit in our rivers, get back to us.

              • Paul …
                25 April 2014 at 5:08 pm

                Srylands knows of all of this, I sense.
                Comments made to be provocative in the way some kids do whose social skills have a way to go.
                He craves attention.

            • Chooky 1.1.3.5.1.3
              25 April 2014 at 5:11 pm

              @ srylands

              ….how do you factor in the costs to tourism and our overseas branding of ‘NZ Pure’….people like you don’t factor them in…but overseas visitors notice

              ….many down stream rivers I swam in as a child are a trickle and a contaminated trickle compared with what they once were

          • Clemgeopin 1.1.3.5.2
            25 April 2014 at 1:03 pm

            You have no problem with cattle shit and other toxins being dumped into the rivers?
            Would you advocate the nuclear power possessing countries to dump their spent nuclear wastes into their water ways? It is cheaper!

        • weka 1.1.3.6
          25 April 2014 at 4:36 pm

          “How exactly is that narcissim, im sure that would be a natural reaction for most people leaving a high profile job, how about instead of crying on here you go read Claire Trevetts article r.e Jones and the Toxic Greens not only is it highly accurate you might actually learn something about the man you have dedicated 5 posts to this morning”

          Of course Trevett didn’t even impy that the GP was toxic. She did report that the reasons Jones was leaving were because he wasn’t going to be PM or Finance Minister, and he could earn more money in another job. So yes, thank-you, I have learned something about the man – that he is self-centred and self-serving (which makes for a shitty MP).

    • Saarbo 1.2
      25 April 2014 at 8:13 am

      I thought he was married with 9 kids? Partner? confused.

    • Clean_power 1.3
      25 April 2014 at 10:47 am

      [RL: Deleted. Sneering, sexist, homophobic and plain wrong. Too far.]

      • Paul 1.3.1
        25 April 2014 at 10:49 am

        Is that the most mature point you are capable of?
        You need to return to the sandpit, young lad.

      • bad12 1.3.2
        25 April 2014 at 11:03 am

        Shane Who???, a regular Kiwi bloke, Ha ha ha that just shows us all that if you are not a fool you easily are, fooled that is…

    • newsense 1.4
      25 April 2014 at 12:52 pm

      Great article from Glucina

    • anker 1.5
      25 April 2014 at 3:16 pm

      When is Claire Trevell going move jobs to the print media she is most suited to? I.e., for the Women’s Weekly. Apologies to the Woman’s Weekly, nothing too much wrong there. Claire with her puff pieces really belongs with you, not as the Deputy Political Editor of the country major newspaper.

    • Murray Olsen 1.6
      25 April 2014 at 8:38 pm

      Claire Triffid is nothing but a gossip columnist. Forty years ago the Herald wouldn’t have considered running such rubbish stories.

  2. Paul 2
    25 April 2014 at 7:14 am

    The right wing contributors on this site rant and rave about how the Greens will destroy NZ’s economy.
    I’d be more worried by the present jokers remaining in power.
    Gradually indebting the country to foreign interests.
    And yet pr, BM, fisiani and others slavishly support them.
    Pathetic, really.

    “Government debt has reached $60 billion, having climbed $27 million a day since John Key became prime minister – and forecasts show it will rise for years to come.
    Despite tax revenue being higher than expected and expenses lower in recent months, Treasury figures show net Crown debt reached the highest yet at $60,015,000,000 at the end of September.
    It already equates to 28 per cent of New Zealand’s economic output, is more than $13,000 for every person in New Zealand and is forecast to climb by another $10b by 2017.
    When National took control of the Beehive in 2008, debt was just over $10b.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9380846/Public-debt-climbs-by-27m-a-day

    • phillip ure 2.1
      25 April 2014 at 10:21 am

      let’s pretend nz is a company/corporation..

      ..and john key is running it..

      ..now..when key yook over control of the company..

      ..the extenal debt held by the company was $10 billion..

      ..under keys’ stewardship of the company..

      ..that external debt has blown out to $60 billion..

      ..now..if you were one of the owners/shareholders of this company called nz that is under the aegis/care of key..

      ..around about now..wouldn’t you be going:

      ..’w.t.f are doing..?..mr key..?…why have you run up such a horrendous level of debt..?

      ..you have been telling us that you had to have a firesale of the assets held by the company/country..

      ..because you ‘didn’t want to run to the foreign bankers..like labour/the greens want to do..’

      ..wasn’t that the story you have been spinning us..?

      ..so/but not only have you sold off our energy-assets at firesale pieces..(to raise in total some $5 billion..?)

      ..all the time you were saying/preaching this…you increased our debts to those foreign banks you were telling scary stories about..

      ..from $10 billion..

      ..to $60 billion..

      ..please explain..!

      • Paul 2.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 10:25 am

        Is it possible you could write without all those gaps, dots and question marks?
        It would make your pints easy to grasp.

        • phillip ure 2.1.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 10:28 am

          yeah.! .nah..! eh..?

          ..and i don’t really ‘grasp pints’ these days..eh..?..

          • Paul 2.1.1.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 10:29 am

            It was just a suggestion.
            I think more people would read your comments if they were clearer.

            • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 10:40 am

              i can’t write yr way anymore..

              ..it’s been so long since i’ve done/dismissed them..

              ..i really can’t see the point of all those bullshit capital letters/sentence-structures/paragraphs..etc..

              ..they seem as archaic/arcane as all those swirls/whorls from previous superseded versions of the ‘right’ way to write..why don’t you still do/bend the knee to them..?

              ..and despite yr last line..

              ..i now find my way ‘clearer’/easier to read/more flowing…..

              • RedLogix …
                25 April 2014 at 1:35 pm

                All those ‘arcane swirls/whorls’ you are so dismissive of are an extra layer of texture and context for your readers.

                You may know exactly what you intend to say phil – in your own head. But you depend on all these written symbols to convey that meaning to your readers.

                By ignoring the textural conventions that most people are familiar with you make it harder for us to decode your meaning. Quite necessarily so. It’s directly analogous to someone whose verbal speech is mumbled and mangled.

                After a while people get the sense that you just can’t be bothered respecting your readers enough to communicate clearly. And they just stop reading.

                • phillip ure …
                  25 April 2014 at 2:28 pm

                  c’mon..!..get a grip..!

                  ..it’s not that hard to read..

                  ..i’m not using hieroglyphics/cryptic-codes..

                  ..yr fretting/insistances have all the tone/timbre of a first world linguistic-problem..

                  ..and reading it isn’t compulsory..

                  ..surely i’m just making it easier for you to know when to scroll on by..

                  • RedLogix …
                    25 April 2014 at 3:00 pm

                    I write using conventional grammar and sentence structure that other people are familiar with.

                    I make some effort to clean it up before I hit ‘submit’ and quite frequently go back to edit out mistakes as well. I do this out of respect for other people who may chose to read me.

                    By contrast your ‘stream of consciousness’ style makes no such effort. It stinks of an ‘all about me’ attitude.

                    But if your best argument is to dismissively invite us all to ‘scroll on by’, would it then be logical to save pixels by simply deleting all your posts ?

                    Because when you choose to write in a lazy, disrespectful style that few people can be bothered reading, it’s the equivalent of self-censoring mumbling. Yet oddly enough censorship is one thing that gets you very agitated.

                    Why do you do it to yourself then?

                    • weka …
                      25 April 2014 at 3:17 pm

                      +1 Deliberately makes his communication harder to understand (as a point of vanity as far as I can tell), and then expects everyone else to make extra effort to make sense of what he is saying. Then has the gall to tell other people that they don’t know whether something is garbled or not to them. It’s all about phil.

                    • phillip ure …
                      25 April 2014 at 5:33 pm

                      “.. It’s all about phil…”

                      heh..!

                      chrs 4 the guffaw..!

                    • BM …
                      25 April 2014 at 7:41 pm

                      I agree.

                      Phil, your style sucks dog dicks, it’s got no redeeming features, do every one a favor and write like every one else.

                    • phillip ure …
                      25 April 2014 at 8:48 pm

                      “..By contrast your ‘stream of consciousness’ style makes no such effort..”

                      i actually do ‘make such effort’..

                      ..the pale imitations others try should make that clear..

                    • Clemgeopin …
                      25 April 2014 at 10:21 pm

                      [@Philp ure]

                      ..Yeah?..

                      ..How about this imitation then, ye?..

                      ..given the increasingly proven cancer/premature-death etc.-causing properties of our main exports..

                      ..(animal bits/bye-products..)

                      .(we really..as a country..are the merchants of death..eh..?..)

                      ..hand in hand with the soon-to-be production of lab/warehouse grown meat..(with no animals/cruelties involved..in countries of consumption…)

                      ..wouldn’t it make some sense to flog all the meat-farms off to foreigners..?

                      ..and then to sit back and watch/wait for them to go (inevitably) broke..

                      ..then we can buy the farms back cheap..

                      ..and start growing real food on them..?

                      ..(just saying..!

                      ..it’s a plan..!..)

                      the alternative of course is to start switching to growing real food now..eh..?..)

                      ..pale..ye?..

                      ..nah..!..

                  • Chooky …
                    25 April 2014 at 5:15 pm

                    i like your writing style Phil !

              • Psycho Milt …
                25 April 2014 at 5:46 pm

                ..i really can’t see the point of all those bullshit capital letters/sentence-structures/paragraphs..etc..

                Yes – what has legibility ever done for written communication, eh? Totally overrated…

        • bad12 2.1.1.2
          25 April 2014 at 10:36 am

          Lolz…Phillip…understands His…Babble…every word…even the … …some obscure poet… long ago…penned a few poems…in the same lack of style…don’t you know…its Phill’s ‘art’…

          • Paul 2.1.1.2.1
            25 April 2014 at 10:39 am

            Just makes it harder to follow.
            As long as Phil realise that and doesn’t mind, that’s ok.
            At least his comments don’t swamp this site with monotony – in the form of Pete g.

          • Chooky 2.1.1.2.2
            25 April 2014 at 5:16 pm

            yup…and us Chooks like it ….so there!…we like poetry

        • Bearded Git 2.1.1.3
          25 April 2014 at 3:08 pm

          I just don’t bother reading it Paul

          • McFlock 2.1.1.3.1
            25 April 2014 at 6:25 pm

            pretty much the same here, unless a meaningful phrase jumps out. Those are few and far between. Often read the people who argue with him, though, just to get a gist of what’s going on.

            • weka 2.1.1.3.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 6:43 pm

              Ditto.

              • Chooky …
                26 April 2014 at 9:28 am

                In defence of Philip Ure and his Odes

                People who are too prosaic miss a lot that can be learned from poetry and the non literal and the non verbal and the aesthetic and the psychic and the mystical and the allusional….(helped occasionally with a little you know what)

                …in other words the glasses and focus of Yang Scientism and literalism has brought about an ecological crisis…the world is too Yang and unbalanced…….in the mind and spirit…. …lol…lol ( and dont eat the little critters or you will have a bad reincarnation)

                LOOSEN UP YOU BASTARDS and STAY COOL

                • McFlock …
                  26 April 2014 at 4:20 pm

                  If one wishes to communicate with the prosaic, one should use conventional prose…

      • Once was Tim 2.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 7:34 pm

        @ Phil ….
        let’s pretend NuZulls a cumpinny en Jawnkey’s running it!

        Please don’t ask = its probably on the agenda already!
        .
        There’s already a hijeckd meedya masquerading as a 4th Estate that’s too lazy to get off its arse and delve into his years as the “smoilung asessun” working in Ayezzzha!.

        Most of them, whilst goan beart their daily buzzniss, couldin unna Sten the goi. They did when skeweritty garz were loinung up ta scort thin off the premizzizz

        Watch and wait Phull
        Their lazinusses are really going to claim integrity in Jonolustuk velyas when the shut hitsth fen. Watch em all…. even the ones fresh from Media Studies papuzz en gradjatshum hired by 3 (based on essays and Lecturers pets, that were completely and utterly plagiarised and/or written for them).
        (Btw …. As a former tutor, I’m still trying to understand why a decent enough lecturer/researcher – and a hierarchy that was fairly on to it – could fail to see the bleeding obvious) – but there ya go – bay-sick-ly tik-a-box commercialoizayshun of the tertiary sektah – of which there’s a Heck Yea and a choyce-Jorrrrrse leading the charge).
        [….Phil, and perhaps Rhino: watch tonights “tree Newz” – did I hear Nukki kay say something like “biggerings” relating to the Chinese ban on infant formyilla?. I think oi dud – but maybe not – it’s hard to woch the likes of Nukki sometimes. “What I would say – is ….. me mate Nafe Goi hes been skolling me and praviding me with ‘learnings’ of the subjek]

        Sometimes I really wonder why the trolls keep it up – but we can rest assured they’ll be the first to squeal like stuffed pigs when it all happens (if it happens, though I’m not that confident given how long its taken thus far to realoise the Empra hes nah closthes) ….. but I reckon they’ve allowed their inflated egos to get in the way of logic.
        It’s all a but like Fairfecks subbies; ‘Hubs’; destruction of that 4th as a konsquince of what’s deemed to be corporate sense; a misunderstanding of journalistic values (kind of like that new slogan “Miss Selling”); make me a star ….. you get the idea.

        Anyway – this is turning into a bit of a rave.
        Preps oi shid jess get Pedey Jorge to go do sim Fek Chuckin.

        The con-machine sure as hell is working overtime this week though!

        ….. Oh – btw Phil – should I call you Phil or Phylis? Bad 12 calls you that often, and baby …. I jisss lerv BOTH yer work! :p

  3. bad12 3
    25 April 2014 at 8:28 am

    But, but, but, its the RockStar economy don’t you know, by the time the IMF gets in on the act there will be little left to sell off and the real fun will have begun…

    • Rodel 3.1
      25 April 2014 at 9:11 am

      b12
      It’s not Rockstar..with yet another NZ company dismissing 79 workers in Dunedin it’s more of a Wagnerian economy, but who in Epsom or Helensville gives a hoot about those sawmillers down there.

      • bad12 3.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 9:20 am

        As if i do not fully understand where Rock Bottom is as far as the economy goes, ever heard of being ironic…

      • McFlock 3.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 11:26 pm

        Isn’t Rockstar Games the company behind Grand Theft Auto?

        Maybe that’s the society the nats are after – gated comunities for the ultra-rich, techno-Hobbesian violence for the rest.

    • Paul 3.2
      25 April 2014 at 9:40 am

      Rock star economy for multinational investments banks.

  4. fisiani 4
    25 April 2014 at 9:15 am

    Anzac Day. Red poppies everywhere. Whichever muppet decided to give a white poppy equal prominence on the banner headline above has a viewpoint that is not shared by the majority. Fair enough. Your decision. A picture is worth more than a thousand words.

    [lprent: probably the difference between this who have actually served in the army like myself and the idle armchair warriors like yourself with their mindless romanticism. ]

    • bad12 4.1
      25 April 2014 at 9:18 am

      Fish head isn’t there a war someplace you can go and volunteer to be a hero in…

    • felix 4.2
      25 April 2014 at 9:39 am

      “has a viewpoint that is not shared by the majority”

      This coming from an ACT supporter who thinks National is a left wing organisation.

      🙄

    • Paul 4.3
      25 April 2014 at 9:41 am

      Armchair warriors…always the most ferocious….

    • Tigger 4.4
      25 April 2014 at 10:12 am

      That reminds me, really appreciate seeing the white poppy in the banner…

      • freedom 4.4.1
        25 April 2014 at 10:40 am

        +1

      • lprent 4.4.2
        25 April 2014 at 10:41 am

        That was rocky. I used to just put the red poppy up. One year she asked if it could be used. I looked at it and decided it was a good complement.

      • Chooky 4.4.3
        25 April 2014 at 5:37 pm

        i like the white poppy too….as i suspect would have many a returned serviceman and airman….a white poppy for Peace is what they believed in

        • lprent 4.4.3.1
          25 April 2014 at 9:03 pm

          I don’t think I ever met so many fervent believers in peace in civilian life as I did inside the army. Due to the range clearing philosophy at Waiouru when I did my training, I rapidly became a believer myself.

    • Clemgeopin 4.5
      25 April 2014 at 10:16 am

      A friendly advice for you : Whatever war you support, make sure you don’t say anything against uncle Tom anymore unless you wish for a drone to hover over your head. The price of freedom, justice and fair play. Collateral damage justified by lies and spin.

      • bad12 4.5.1
        25 April 2014 at 10:45 am

        Uncle Tom???, you are thinking of ”Uncle Sam” are you not, the same ”Uncle Sam” that is now dropping US troops in to places like Poland and the Ukraine in the hope? that the pro-Russian militias will find cause to harm some of them perhaps…

        • Clemgeopin 4.5.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 12:44 pm

          oops, yes, Sam.
          US foreign policy has created more problems than helped in world peace. Diplomacy is a far better weapon than weapons.

    • lprent 4.6
      25 April 2014 at 10:23 am

      Ummm. I do it every year.

      I suspect that my years of service in both the army and this site give me the right to do whatever I feel like.

      Unlike idle munters like yourself, old ex-soldiers tend to be somewhat more reflective and self-aware.

      But hey, we also provide the space for you to make a fool of yourself.

      • chris73 4.6.1
        25 April 2014 at 1:27 pm

        “old ex-soldiers tend to be somewhat more reflective and self-aware.”

        This is true, am I still banned?

        [lprent: Yes. I have a vague idea about doing another general amnesty while I have the time to deal with the idiots next week. However the time is being rapidly sucked up with things to do.

        The trick is generally not to get banned in the first place. ]

    • millsy 4.7
      25 April 2014 at 5:09 pm

      Fisiani and his fellow right wingers go on about how they are off to the dawn parade to “remember the fallen” who died fighting tyrannical governments, but I wager that if the Chinese decided to take this country by force, they would be down by Queen Street waving their little Chinese flags as the PLA marches up the street..

    • Psycho Milt 4.8
      25 April 2014 at 5:48 pm

      … idle armchair warriors like yourself with their mindless romanticism.

      Now, be fair. If mental midgets can’t think of Anzac Day in terms of mindless romanticism, how are they going to think of it? You can’t put a quart in a pint pot.

    • Once was Tim 4.9
      25 April 2014 at 8:04 pm

      “probably the difference between this [those?] who have actually served in the army like myself and the idle armchair warriors like yourself with their mindless romanticism.”

      PLUS [+] (any number) doesn’t seem to cut it! – but +1
      @ Fizz – have you ever?

      btw …. Probably also those in the military who’ve climbed the ladder by arse-licking, and who’re expecting dizzy heights – perhaps a serial gummint departmint CEOze appointment, or even a guv genrill appointment. Prolly Shane will arrange the next one – preferably one that can use a bit of holdtight on the partial plate when delivering the honours.
      (Christ I can be a bitch I know – but these munters and their cronyism – really ARE becoming quite pathetic!)
      A Harley Davidson at the Tex Payuzz xpense would probably be a damn sight cheaper for all concerned – we could get Chris Finlayson to bestow the honours too without all the ‘kerfuffle’

      Personally I’D RATHER we honour the deserving – and there are quite a few. There really IS a hierarchy that lets them down though.

  5. Pascal's bookie 5
    25 April 2014 at 10:01 am

    Hi Pete,

    wew were discussing something yesterday that got lost in the old maelstrom a bit, so I’ll just cut iand pastes it over here, as I’m keen to hear your reckon.

    It was about these poll results:

    http://www.reidresearch.co.nz/TV3+POLL+RESULTS.html

    As I noted, the data isn’t as good as we might like it, but it’s what we have, unless you have better data to share of course.

    Give that, as you said:

    “Fact checking isn’t a waste of time – it can help people perceive more accurately and not get fooled by party propaganda and ignorance.”

    Could you have a quick look at the following statements, and see if the facts revealed by that polling data can help clear up any propaganda or ignorance regarding what people think:

    1) “Labour looks out of touch with people and out of touch with reality. If they don’t turn this around very soon it could be terminal.”

    2) ” The perception of the party is tending towards pathetic.”

    3) “Ex Labour minister Michael Bassett may not be a party favourite but what he said on Radio New Zealand half an hour ago about Labour now are common sentiments”

    cheers.

    • Pete George 5.1
      25 April 2014 at 11:17 am

      Hi Pascal’s bookie

      Perhaps you’re trying to be too clever for me. What point are you trying to make? That any opinion expressed here should be supported by an opinion poll? I’ll try polling your opinion.

      1) Do you think Labour looks in touch with people and in touch with reality?

      2) Do you think there are no perceptions the party is tending towards pathetic?

      3) Do you think what Michael Basset expressed are not common sentiments?

      • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 11:36 am

        I’m not trying be clever at all Pete. Nor am I suggesting that all opinions should be supported by polling.

        I am saying that the data in that reid polling contradicts your statements about what people think.

        In particular, the polling shows that Key is seen as being out of touch with normal kiwis far more than the Labour leader has been, for quite some time.

        For the last year, a majority in the poll has said that Key is ‘out of touch’.

        The following statement is about something that we can only know from polling:

        “Labour looks out of touch with people and out of touch with reality.”

        It’s talking about what the electorate thinks, and the evidence we have about what the electorate thinks on that particular question doesn’t really support it.

        And yet it is something pundits talk about a lot, and you repeat seemingly without thinking about whether or not you have any evidence for it.

        Even when presented with the evidence we have, you can’t bring yourself to talk about it.

        So,

        “Fact checking isn’t a waste of time – it can help people perceive more accurately and not get fooled by party propaganda and ignorance.”

        The talking point in the media by various pundits and analysts, which is repeated by you in various statements, that ‘Labour is dangerously out of touch especially in comparison to the down to earth Key led national party’, seems to be “party propaganda and ignorance” that could be assisted by a bit of fact checking, no?

        • Pete George 5.1.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 12:49 pm

          The talking point in the media by various pundits and analysts, which is repeated by you in various statements, that ‘Labour is dangerously out of touch especially in comparison to the down to earth Key led national party’, seems to be “party propaganda and ignorance” that could be assisted by a bit of fact checking, no?

          Do you have poll to back your “party propaganda and ignorance” claim?

          I haven’t compared Labour to National on down to earthiness.

          • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 1:03 pm

            “Do you have poll to back your “party propaganda and ignorance” claim?”

            That reid one is what makes it seem to be so Pete. It strongly suggests the majority of people do not think labour is out of touch. Whatever problems Labour has, it isn’t that. So people who are claiming otherwise, are wrong. This might be because of ignorance, or for propaganda reasons

            This is very simple.

            You made claims that labour is seen as being out of touch.

            The best available data that I’m aware of suggests that isn’t the case.

            Maybe you have other data that suggests it is the case, which supports your statements. If so you should share it.

            Your wriggling is giving me the impression that you are more interested in something other than fact checking to assist people to “perceive more accurately and not get fooled by party propaganda and ignorance.”

        • ianmac 5.1.1.2
          25 April 2014 at 1:58 pm

          And as the Election year progresses and David and Labour policy is better known, the gap will narrow.

          • Clemgeopin 5.1.1.2.1
            25 April 2014 at 2:35 pm

            That depends on the media to a large extent. Our media has shown to be personality and sensation driven and has come across so far as pretty inept and useless fourth estate, instead of being a responsible and unbiased pillar of democracy in informing the public on policy issues.

          • fisiani 5.1.1.2.2
            27 April 2014 at 6:58 pm

            the gap will narrow, I burst out laughing. what wishful thinking. This has eerie similarities of 2002 with the how low can you go limbo dance of political demise.

            • Clemgeopin 5.1.1.2.2.1
              27 April 2014 at 8:58 pm

              How do you know? There are still 5 months to go for the elections and all policies are not yet announced. Are you coming across as Ken’s ring.

              • fisiani …
                27 April 2014 at 9:14 pm

                You really think that policies bribes or any dodgy offer will make a difference when the economy is booming, wages are rising, employment is ring and 1,600 a week are coming off benefits? I have a bridge to sell you.

      • Stephanie Rodgers 5.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 12:40 pm

        I think it’s important to figure out the difference between opinions – ‘I think Labour looks out of touch’ – and provable statements – ‘The majority of people think Labour looks out of touch.’

        Statement 1 is a little bit in-between, but statements 2 and 3 above are provable (not perfectly, because there are always questions around polling methods etc. and how we define whether a sentiment is ‘common’ could be argued, but nevertheless.)

        They can’t however be proved by ‘polling’ one commenter on a blog site, and I have to say, Pete, that this kind of tactic is something I’ve seen several people call you out on. You have made statements and, although I respect that you generally comment here in a personal capacity, and not as editor of Politicheck, you aren’t showing willing to back those statements up, and are avoiding having to answer them with a silly little charade of a one-man opinion poll.

        • weka 5.1.2.1
          25 April 2014 at 3:21 pm

          PG’s inability to grasp such basic concepts does suggest that he is impaired for the job at politicheck.

        • wtl 5.1.2.2
          25 April 2014 at 4:03 pm

          Unfortunately, Pete George has indicated in previous comments that he does not understand statistics. He does not consider them to be facts and instead believes that because one can misrepresent statistics to ‘prove’ a certain point (e.g. by cherry picking data points), then the entire field of statistics is completely arbitrary. His comments regarding the “statistical poverty line” also show that he has a poor understanding of averages (either the median or the mean) and he does not understand the effects that changes in the underlying distribution of a parameter would have on these averages.

          I really have no idea how he can be qualified to be a “fact-checker”, let alone a “fact-checking editor”.

          • Stephanie Rodgers 5.1.2.2.1
            25 April 2014 at 5:19 pm

            That’s a very good point, wtl. Of course it’s good for a fact-checker to be aware of the ways statistics can be misused – it’s probably a prerequisite for the job – but that level of ignorance is just embarrassing.

            I’ve always thought, and I’ve seen others here comment, that a basic grounding in concepts like mean vs. median would raise the level of political debate in NZ. And I did hope when I saw Politicheck getting launched that it could be a vehicle for that kind of thing. I guess not!

          • freedom 5.1.2.2.2
            25 April 2014 at 6:06 pm

            “(either the median or the mean)”

            and then there is the mode,
            a deliberately overlooked statistic when averages + wages are discussed in the same breath

    • ianmac 5.2
      25 April 2014 at 12:10 pm

      Thanks Pascal. The “experts” like Bassett certainly paint a dismal picture, which is not borne out by the Reid Polls. With more exposure later this year people will be able to compare and contrast. And maybe those little comments like trucks on motorways and trailer registrations etc serve the purpose of being known by thousands who have yet to notice David or the serious life affecting policies yet to be delivered.
      Thanks for the link. Have Bookmarked it.
      1 Yes
      2 Wrong
      3 Bassett is a very nasty malicious animal
      (Note Pete is away with the fairies @ 5.1?)

    • Not Petey 5.3
      25 April 2014 at 12:38 pm

      I don’t think RR polling is particularly good but don’t you think you should put up the most recent results (still a month out of date) ?

      https://www.3news.co.nz/Politics/3NewsReidResearchPoll.aspx

      • Pascal's bookie 5.3.1
        25 April 2014 at 1:14 pm

        Those are the results for different questions, Not Petey.

        If you want to find out what people think about who is more “in touch”, you have to ask them that question.

        You’re welcome.

      • ianmac 5.3.2
        25 April 2014 at 1:27 pm

        The link to 3News was distorted but FPP suggested one thing but MMP showed that:
        “Support for the National Party has dipped in the latest political opinion poll and the Greens have jumped.

        The Roy Morgan poll released yesterday showed National down three points to 45.5 percent. Labour rose a point to 31.5 percent and the Greens jumped 3.5 points to 14 percent.

        If a national election were held now it would be too close to call, pollster Gary Morgan said.
        So what was your point Petey lad?

    • The Lone Haranguer 5.4
      25 April 2014 at 2:54 pm

      I looked at the TV3 Poll and I understand that its considered to be the most accurate one by those to the Left. (Do correct me if Im wrong there tho)

      So is the “fact” that Cunliffe cant even get to 0% in the “preferred PM” poll of any concern to you?

    • David H 5.5
      25 April 2014 at 4:14 pm

      Not only that there is also NO mention of David Cunliffe in any of the charts. His name is nowhere to be found. So that makes it a Shearer poll. One which has me in a quandary, because Cunliffe won the Leadership in sept 2013, and these polls are supposedly up till Jan 2014.
      So the question is this: Is the whole lot just reid research just making up numbers? because it just don’t make sense.

      There you go Petey. Fact check that!

  6. veutoviper 6
    25 April 2014 at 10:39 am

    I haven’t commented so far on Shane Jones’ departure from Labour and Parliament and will not do so other than saying that after my initial shock, IMO it is the best thing he could do. He was never an easy fit in Labour. While in his first term, I thought he did well, thereafter until the leadership contest and since, he was a non-entity apart from the ‘occasional incident’. If I was in Cunliffe’s shoes, I think I would be sighing a sigh of relief that the ‘loose cannon’ is going.

    On this day when we remember those who fought, and died, for our freedom and democracy, we need to also look forward to hopefully strengthen our resolve to protect these.

    So, in my opinion, it is time to put Shane Jones behind us – and look forward to, and be thankful that his going means that Kelvin Davis is coming back.

    I was impressed by the way that he handled the situation and media within a very short time of the announcement of Jones’ decision.

    But I am even more impressed by his Facebook post setting out his first four priorities – posted yesterday. –

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kelvin-Davis/776784779020038?fref=nf

    It is a definite must read in full, so I am not going to give a summary.

    Apologies if this has already been posted (and I think it is well worth a full post), but it gave me a real surge of positivity at a time when all around seemed to be negativity.

    • bad12 6.1
      25 April 2014 at 11:01 am

      Seeing as you said that Kelvin Davis’s Facebook page was a must read, i did, to be kind, Kelvin will be a perfect fit into middle class Labour and should represent the interests of that middle class really well,

      Education, education, education, if this were to be the solution then WHAT has gone so seriously wrong with the education system in Te Tai Tokerau for so long,

      Kelvin managed to have me seeing RED with His little allusion to ‘Nutters’ in His opening remarks, ‘Nutters’ have become thus for a reason and far from the snide inferences their way Davis would far better serve His electorate to avail Himself of the causes rather than poke the iron at the symptoms,

      Am unimpressed, another business as usual candidate for Labour…

      • just saying 6.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 12:49 pm

        I wish I hadn’t read that bad12. I agree entirely with your conclusions.
        He either doesn’t get it or he doesn’t want to, (and they both merge into a giant ‘I’m alright Jack,’ anyway.)

        Davis wants to get to feel like one of the good guys as he props up the mythology that is destroying so many of us. Pagani must love him.

        • weka 6.1.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 3:27 pm

          Can you explain that js? On the face of it I can’t see much wrong with his priorities.

          • just saying 6.1.1.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 3:46 pm

            A complete denial of the structural causes of the woes faced by Maaori, denial of patriarchy in sexual and physical abuse (man-up ffs!) and airbrushing the poverty, structural inequality and racism that underpin both in the community he hopes to represent.

            Nothing major needs to change, the barriers can be overcome by a bit of elbow-grease and a particular (still patriarchal) definition of a “real man”. As you were etc.

            Sounds like bollocks to me.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 4:11 pm

              Can you be more specific as to where you see actual denial?

              You might be right, but it’s also possible that as a politician in a mainstream party he talks in ways that his constituents will understand, or he is pragmatic enough to understand where he has power and where he doesn’t. It’s not like he can talk about the patriarchy or colonisation outright and still be an electable Labour MP.

              I would be very surprised if he was unaware of colonisation and its impact on Māori, or unaware of the structural issues.

              What do you think he meant by this?

              Te Tai Tokerau has endured it’s own tragedy, but it happened over 40 years not 40 seconds. The effects on our people have been equally devastating in the long run.

              “a particular (still patriarchal) definition of a “real man”. As you were etc.”

              Hardly as you were. He makes a long, explicit statement to men that being a man includes respect for women and children. This is consistent with Māori kaupapa and is something I would like to see within Pākehā culture, esp politicians.

              His statement about te reo is radical and one I wholeheartedly support.

              • just saying …
                25 April 2014 at 5:43 pm

                His statement about te reo is radical and one I wholeheartedly support.

                Apart from the word ‘radical’ we are agreed about this.

                I could go into more detail but I don’t think any good would come of it. The way I see it, he fits perfectly with the current Labour Party. No challenge, no change, just more of the same. I’m sure he sincerely hopes that he can push a few more kids into ‘real person’ (middle-class) status through the power of education, which is nice I guess. But in desperate times, with the scale of need, and the crises we have breathing down our necks, the kids that don’t “make it” are bound for under the bus, and it’s brutal.

                Just now the future seems unremittingly grim for more and more people and I just wonder who has to be affected for it to start mattering.

                • karol …
                  25 April 2014 at 6:14 pm

                  Davis does seem pretty moderate to me – but an improvement on Jones. I think if the Labor caucus shift more strongly towards founding Labour principles, Davis will most likely go with it.

      • Clemgeopin 6.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 12:55 pm

        I felt that his ‘main sincere priority aims’ are primarily geared towards his election platform to get more votes.

        • Chooky 6.1.2.1
          25 April 2014 at 5:32 pm

          …from Kelvin Davis not a word on Charter Schools and Standards testing

          ….this is a worry, because he comes out of a hopelessly compromised Ministry of Education…. which is following an ACT agenda …..espoused by private PR companies working on the advice of USA Charter School business ( which in orientation is right wing and religious fundamentalist)

          ….where is Labour’s Education policy?

          …like the retirement age issue….full employment for youth …raised minimum incomes for workers……Education is an important issue for Labour .

          …Labour should be for State Education and equality of opportunity …not Private education

          I want to hear Kelvin Davis’s views on education ….and Labour’s policies on Education

          • Clemgeopin 6.1.2.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 5:51 pm

            I am sure you are and I am sure you will. There are still 5 months till the lection. Surely, would you want want Labour to announce all their important policies now so
            that
            (a) the media give it some publicity now rather than close to the election?
            (b) the nasty Nats can go on spinning about all kinds of exaggerated faults?
            (c) the notorious Nats can copy some aspects of the policies to pretend it is theirs?
            (d) the voters not have them fresh in their minds just before they cast their votes?

            • Chooky 6.1.2.1.1.1
              26 April 2014 at 9:11 am

              Clemgeopin….lets hope Labour is keeping its powder dry then …I hope this is the case

              • Clemgeopin …
                26 April 2014 at 12:06 pm

                I hope so too!…The powder will be dry as long as disloyal incontinental turncoats like Jones don’t uncontrollably cough over it.

          • anker 6.1.2.1.2
            25 April 2014 at 5:56 pm

            Hey people, give the guy a break. It was a facebook posting.

            His priorities are right on. Education, well that’s appropriate given he’s a teacher, he’s going to be concerned about this. His electorate. Te Reo. Violence against women and children.

            Can anyone really argue with these four priorities?????

            I agree with Weka, I can’t see him denying structural causes. He didn’t mention them as he needs to keep it succinct. Labour get criticized on this site, for their media stuff and not doing sound bites.

            Labour haven’t released their education policy yet.

            I didn’t like the nutter comments but I am not going to right the guy off for them. I am not sure who he means, maybe some of the right wing people posting on TS.

            • weka 6.1.2.1.2.1
              25 April 2014 at 8:56 pm

              +1 It’s his first statement about his intentions as an MP. They seem appropriate to the party he is in and assume that he wants to work towards something achievable. If we want something more radical try Mana or the GP.

              “Apart from the word ‘radical’ we are agreed about this.”

              He’s basically saying that we should take action to make conversational reo normal in NZ. How is that not radical?

              “The way I see it, he fits perfectly with the current Labour Party. No challenge, no change, just more of the same”

              I don’t see Labour doing any of the things he talks about. How is it more of the same? I think what you perhaps mean is that he’s not an obvious shift left for Labour. I don’t know, I’m just going on what I read on the FB page. But I do think that we need solid, mainstream MPs in Labour, because so much of the country is mainstream in their politics.

              The best criticism that’s been made is that Pagani will like him. That makes me worry.

    • David H 6.2
      25 April 2014 at 6:39 pm

      Wow now that’s what’s needed from a Labour Politician. And yep the Nutters probably those of Fishy and Petey George to name but a couple But reading down I’ll add Bad 12 and Just saying to that list of T 🙄 s and Nutters too judging by their comments.

  7. travellerev 7
    25 April 2014 at 11:30 am

    I decided to place this link here and not in the Anzac post from MS. It is not my intention to cause upset but to add some thoughts to ANZAC day I felt would be misunderstood in that post’s comment section. So here goes:

    A word of warning to all well meaning Kiwi’s honoring their ancestors and the recent young man and women who died in wars we where dragged into by our “leaders.

    Will we be doing this for people dying in more wars in the future and if so will those wars be remembered through the same patriotic glasses without a shred of criticism for those sending the brave men and women to their deaths in them?

  8. Bill 8
    25 April 2014 at 11:47 am

    I’ve no idea if this has been covered before, but…polls.

    Strikes me that a majority of ‘undecideds’ are probably left bloc voters who haven’t decided which party of the left will get their vote, rather than people wavering between left and right. So on that basis, if these ‘undecideds’ aren’t factored into poll results, then of course the right wing vote will be over reported. Polls that present percentages based on only those who state preferences (adding the decideds up to a 100%) are of no more use than soggy loo paper, no…unless your looking to generate a self fulfilling prophesy?

    So anyway, why is the publication of such skewed nonsense acceptable?

    • ianmac 8.1
      25 April 2014 at 12:15 pm

      Good point Bill about just who the undecided are. I vacillate between Labour/Green but last time nearly considered NZF strategically.
      But 20% undecided leaves the field ripe for persuasion.

      • Bill 8.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 1:27 pm

        I don’t even know the %age of undecideds ianmac, (is it 20% or is that just a number you threw out there?) but I’m definitely picking it’s predominantly made up of left wing voters.

        • ianmac 8.1.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 1:34 pm

          One of the polls definitely said 20% undecided. An earlier one was 11%. But I can’t find the source. It seemed by my dodgy memory for a year or two back further back the undecided was about 5%.
          However Paddy and others are reluctant to quote say 20% undecided, as it would mock the usefulness of the polls especially with the dodgy use of FPP seats in parliament line.
          And I wonder if the Labour Green being apparently behind will spur the efforts of we mortals?

          • Bill 8.1.1.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 1:39 pm

            So okay…what that could suggest is that the vote for Labour is dropping as the number of undecideds rises. A pile of formerly Labour voters thinking of going with the Greens? Definitely possible. Meanwhile, the actual left vote is being under-reported by dint of the way polling results are formulated.

            • cricklewood 8.1.1.1.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 3:41 pm

              Although I suspect a respectable portion of those undecided voters never quite ‘decide’ and dont make it to the booth.

    • Pete George 8.2
      25 April 2014 at 1:11 pm

      Strikes me that a majority of ‘undecideds’ are probably left bloc voters who haven’t decided which party of the left will get their vote, rather than people wavering between left and right.

      That’s a bold claim Bill, but I don’t think it’s supported by evidence.

      I’ve seen some pollster analysis that claims undecideds are about as spread as the decideds. But they are the hardest to get a preference from – they are pushed to make a decision, so a guess like your’s is just a guess.

      And undecideds are less likely to decide at election time and vote so less of a factor.

      • Bill 8.2.1
        25 April 2014 at 1:23 pm

        So Pete, the fact (yes, it’s a fact) that there are more parties on the left competing more evenly for left votes than the fewer and more clearly delineated parties on the right, has no impact on the likely voting intentions of those polling as ‘undecided’. Seriously!?

        Try applying some fcking logic sometime Pete…..actually, just any degree of thought would be an improvement for you.

        You might find it illustrative to peruse ‘ts’ comments re voting intentions. Right wing votes are set. They’re voting National. (A wee few for ACT). The left wing votes on the other hand are much more fluid and constantly moving between Labour, the Greens and Mana. Just read the comments over time.

        Meanwhile, a bit of a bold ( and not entirely free from stupid) claim there Petey about ‘undecideds’ being less likely to vote. Not voting and undecided as who to vote for are actually markedly different things

        • ianmac 8.2.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 1:42 pm

          Well said Bill. And Pete saying,”I’ve seen some pollster analysis that claims undecideds are about as spread as the decideds.”
          If undecided, that might mean ummm Undecided. It does seem more likely that so far the likely Left voter would be waiting to get a handle on just what Labour/Green would bring, whereas the writing is on the wall by the performance of the current lot.

          We therefore know most of what Nats are offering, so what alternative do we have? Persuade me (but not too soon with policy as it gives Key’s monstrous huge team of researchers and PR people time to negate and undermine and pinch good policy, like parental leave for instance.)

          • Clemgeopin 8.2.1.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 2:28 pm

            Yes, National are shameless thieves who steal from the services for the poor and the less well off in society and help the wealthy instead, and steal Labour’s past and present social policies to steal some potentially left wing votes.

        • Pete George 8.2.1.2
          25 April 2014 at 1:43 pm

          You’re making a lot of calls there Bill, unsupported by facts.

          Right wing votes are set. They’re voting National.

          National support has been all over the place. Take the Roy Morgan results this year:
          43.5
          47
          48
          48.5
          45.5
          43
          48.5

          There’s nothing set looking about that. Other polls have had a similar degree of variation.

          You may be correct that right wing votes are set, but there’s a lot in the centre sloshing about. Most of the uncertainty and undecided is with swing voters who could go any of several ways.

          • Bill 8.2.1.2.1
            25 April 2014 at 2:37 pm

            Asking you a favour Pete. Please don’t respond to any of my comments in future. The reason? Disagreement and debate is fine by me and even potentially informative. But you’re comments tend to be blithering wastes of space that, while devoid of intelligence, are unfortunately and routinely pregnant with unpleasantly dead shit that serves to choke debate/discussion.

            • Pete George 8.2.1.2.1.1
              25 April 2014 at 2:54 pm

              Asking you a favour Bill. If you post questionable claims be big enough to accept some criticism.

              You seem to be trying to “choke debate/discussion” by your “asking a favour”.

              • Bill …
                25 April 2014 at 3:15 pm

                Pete. I’ve no problem with criticism. Thing is, criticism requires a modicum of intelligence. Criticism in no way comprises of the tangential or irrelevant nonsense that marks the bulk of your comments. Your nonsense (as I’ve commented above but that you appear to have been incapable of grasping first time around) is effectively dead shit that chokes up any flow of critical (or otherwise) debate and discussion.

                Don’t respond to this and never again question my desire to have critical and/or intelligent debate when my core point (How often would I have to repeat this before your obstinate levels of comprehension stopped looking upwards in bewildered blankness at the point?) is that you kill the potential for critical and/or intelligent exchanges with your rubbish.

          • McFlock 8.2.1.2.2
            25 April 2014 at 6:54 pm

            pete, that was meaningless.

            At those levels, the margin for error is 3%. Look at that jump from the low of 43 to the high of 48.5%. The first could be as high as 46%, the second as low as 45.5%.

            And that’s without looking at vacillating undecideds bouncing between left and DNR.

            You comprehensively failed to support your assertion that there’s a lot in the centre sloshing about. You might well just be grasping at an artifact in sampling.

    • Clemgeopin 8.3
      25 April 2014 at 1:15 pm

      I agree. I am not sure why the poll companies do not state the % of voters who are undecided. Such a poll is more accurate and meaningful.
      Another point I wonder is why don’t the four or five main polling companies stagger their polls weekly, one after the other? Surely, they could come to a mutual agreement on that? What stops them from doing that?

      • Bill 8.3.1
        25 April 2014 at 1:34 pm

        I could be generous and suggest that polling companies are running polls better suited to the ‘either/or’ scenario of FPP elections. But having said that, even the Scottish independence polls (which is a straight binary choice) incorporate the undecideds into their results and state when they have stripped the undecideds out for the sake of % age comparisons of those who have decided which way they intend to vote.

        Maybe in NZ a clearer picture would emerge if people were asked which bloc they were going to vote for alongside or instead of which party. Slight problems in designating some parties to a left or right bloc, but as long as the make up of each was consistent over time….

        • ianmac 8.3.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 1:52 pm

          Last Roy Morgan Poll showed only 5% did not name a Party (Undecided?). And that was the 48% for National one. Be interesting for the next poll, away from that Princeling fellow and his celebrity wifey.

      • Rodel 8.3.2
        25 April 2014 at 11:10 pm

        Clemgeopin

        Also why don’t they mention the percent of awful respondents (like me who say.’Oh F**k off)?
        Bugger the polls I say..or has that already been said?

    • Pete George 8.4
      25 April 2014 at 3:48 pm

      Strikes me that a majority of ‘undecideds’ are probably left bloc voters who haven’t decided which party of the left will get their vote, rather than people wavering between left and right. So on that basis, if these ‘undecideds’ aren’t factored into poll results, then of course the right wing vote will be over reported.

      How can you factor ‘undecideds’ into poll results?

      Gavin White of UMR claims (via research) that since 1999 polls have tended to have National and Greens too high, they are up and down on Labour, and have NZ First too low. That doesn’t fit with right being over-reported and left being under-reported.

      http://sayit.co.nz/blog/what-political-polls-tell-us

      If there is evidence that things are different right now I’d be (genuinely) interested to see it.

  9. blue leopard 9
    25 April 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Hmm am not that impressed with iPredict, however found this press release on ‘It’s Our Future’ website which contains an interesting analysis:

    “National’s chances of leading the next government have eased from 74% to 70% over the last week, compared with 87% at the same point in the 2011 election cycle, according to the combined wisdom of the 7000 registered traders on New Zealand’s online predictions market…”

    http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz/ipredict-2014-election-update-14-labour-makes-gains/

  10. ianmac 10
    25 April 2014 at 2:21 pm

    A good opening comment from Kelvin Davis in the Herald ex Northern Advocate – Mike Dinsdale.
    “Mr Davis, who spent one term as a Labour list MP, said he would push several key issues when back in the House – Maori education, regional development, improving the number of people speaking te reo Maori, and “being the male in Parliament who stands up and says enough is enough over domestic violence”.
    And “…after missing out by 832 votes to Hone Harawira in the Te Tai Tokerau electorate race in the 2011 election …”
    Do I barrack for Hone or for Kelvin? Aye. There’s the rub.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11244080

    • karol 10.1
      25 April 2014 at 2:27 pm

      Davis will probably be given a high enough list placing in order to ensure Labour has a Maori MP in the far North.

      • Clemgeopin 10.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 2:42 pm

        It is a real dilemma for the voters there!

        I wonder what is the best way to ensure both Labour and Mana pareties benefit to the maximum extent?

        • weka 10.1.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 3:33 pm

          Wait for the Labour list to come out and if Davis is high enough, electorate vote Mana. And give your party vote to the GP 😉 Win, win, win, for the left.

          • Clemgeopin 10.1.1.1.1
            25 April 2014 at 4:04 pm

            The Greens already have their core about 10-12% support from around the country.
            I would like the Mana.Com alliance (if in action) to clear the 5% threshold.

            So, it would make more sense for the left voters THERE to give the electorate vote to Hone (if Kelvin is fairly guaranteed a list position under 25th) and party vote to Mana.Com alliance (to help the 5% clearance) or Labour (to ensure more Labour Reps than other lefties) or the Greens(if you wish Greens to wield extra power over Labour) or NZF (for super gold card and things) or National (if one is silly to boost Key’s ego during his retirement troty in Hawaii) or ACT (if you love insects and the rich) or UF (if you like ex Labour party turn coats and hairdos)

            No? Why not!

            ….Just musing…..

      • Jenny 10.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 3:19 pm

        “Davis will probably be given a high enough list placing in order to ensure Labour has a Maori MP in the far North.”

        Let us hope so.

        • fisiani 10.1.2.1
          27 April 2014 at 7:07 pm

          Labour say they will win Napier and Christchurch Central so do you really think a hetero sensible bloke like Kelvin will be placed higher in the list than the sisterhood.

      • Stephanie Rodgers 10.1.3
        25 April 2014 at 7:58 pm

        I hope this is the case. I think Parliament would be better for having both of them in it.

  11. Jenny 11
    25 April 2014 at 3:16 pm

    The philosophy of poverty.

    The ACT Party and other Right Wingers often claim that people are poor and/or criminal because they choose to be, through a lack of will power, and/or moral fibre.

    The strangest things often cause me to ponder this assumption.

    Yesterday I went to the supermarket to get some paper vacuum cleaner bags for my vacuum, they come in a slim pack of five for $11.

    On approaching the check out I noticed that the bottom of the packet had a neat slit cut in it and instead of having five vacuum liner bags there were only four. The check out operator said she would not let me have the packet for less than the full $11, so I had to walk back down the aisle to get a new complete intact pack.

    While I was making this long walk, it occurred to me that there must be some very house proud poor person moved to steal just one vacuum bag. Since the pack of five was hardly much bigger than one single bag, this person would have taken a greater risk of being found out by slitting open the packet and removing one liner, than just concealing the whole pack.

    I wondered, was this house proud shoplifter having some sort of moral debate with themselves that it would be less of crime if they took just one bag? Did they balance this crime against the moral dilemma of leaving their house dirty?

    Should the members of ACT be worried that there are house proud poor people with moral scruples driven to wandering the aisles of New Zealand’s supermarkets armed with sharp knives?

    • karol 11.1
      25 April 2014 at 3:30 pm

      In west Auckland supermarkets, we now have to ask the checkout operator if we want to pr=urchase council rubbish bags. This is because too many were being stolen. But, waht do poor people do if they can’t affford the bags needed to dispose of their rubbish?

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 3:53 pm

        Society is now user pays.

        If you can’t pay, sorry, you are now out of society.

        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 9:10 pm

          That’s the nature of private sector efficiency – they just price a large proportion of people out of the market so that it’s easier, and thus more profitable, to supply the service.

      • ianmac 11.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 4:58 pm

        In Marlborough the rubbish bags are still part of rates. Each house gets 52 bags per year. And nearly all of my bag contents are disposed packaging.
        (We get one knee-high bin for recyclable and my compost gets the rest.)

        • RedBaronCV 11.1.2.1
          25 April 2014 at 11:12 pm

          And in Wellington Supermarkets including the ones serving the well off areas. In Dunedin the students were burying the rubbish in their gardens.

    • joe90 11.2
      25 April 2014 at 3:46 pm

      Having saved the $23 for a miniscule tube of zovirax a young solo parent I know arrived home and found the blister pack had been sliced open and the tube replaced with an empty one. When she returned the packaging and empty tube the supermarket accused her of trying to scam them and denied her a replacement leaving her out of pocket, wearing the two 20Km return trips and forced to suffer miserably for another week while an easily treated flare-up rampaged on.

      • Colonial Viper 11.2.1
        25 April 2014 at 4:00 pm

        Sometimes you gotta fight for your rights. And unfortunately that means escalating the noise level at the service desk until they take you seriously. Or finding a friend who can dress up all prim and proper so that the service desk takes you seriously.

        Hint – if you want to go drug free find some high quality Vitamin E nutritional supplement capsules. When you feel the very start of a cold sore attack coming on break into the capsule and smear the vitamin E gel around the affected area of the lips. The same capsule will have enough for a few applications in a day. Keep using for a couple of days even after the symptoms go away. Usually holds off or minimises the cold sore outbreak (in my personal experience).

        • travellerev 11.2.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 4:09 pm

          I use L-Lysine. That is an amino acid. 1 gr in the morning, one in the evening for a couple of days when the burning starts and you won’t even get to the blister stage. The amino acid interferes with the virus’s ability to procreate and it will go back to dormant again.

      • Murray Olsen 11.2.2
        25 April 2014 at 10:30 pm

        I used to carry a notebook and pen. When anything like that happened, I’d ask for a replacement and write down everything the person said. When they asked why, I’d say I had a poor memory. I usually got a replacement fairly quickly, including a front wheel, tyre, and disc brakes for a bike I’d bought, then later found a crack in the wheel.

        Another option is to write up what happened and print out a few copies, then stand outside the shop handing them out. That worked once when a friend of mine had worked a week for a café, with the owner then deciding he wouldn’t pay because it was a trial. In the end, he paid for the week, and the extra hour while she stood outside his shop handing out the leaflets. We’re not as helpless as we’re taught to be.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.3
      25 April 2014 at 9:08 pm

      What makes you think it was a customer?

  12. Jimmie 12
    25 April 2014 at 4:28 pm

    Good to see David Cunliffe paying his respects on ANZAC morning.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/04/youd-expect-prime-minister/

    Not the greatest look from the Leader of the Opposition – why not just not go if it bores you silly?

    • weka 12.1
      25 April 2014 at 4:46 pm

      Put up a real link and we might take a look at it (WO spew doesn’t count as meaningful commentary on anything).

    • Paul 12.2
      25 April 2014 at 5:03 pm

      Petty modern days politicising on ANZAC Day.
      My you RWNJs go low.
      Sociopath.

      • Clemgeopin 12.2.1
        25 April 2014 at 6:55 pm

        Yes, it is petty politicking and nasty, but Cunliffe needs to be on guard as he is constantly in the gaze of the media and the right wing nasties and anti Labour spies. If Key had taken that photo, they would have give it a different favourable spin.

        • Paul 12.2.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 7:06 pm

          Yup….progressive parties must be aware of how low some in the right will go to win.

        • Anne 12.2.1.2
          25 April 2014 at 7:23 pm

          If Key had taken that photo, they would have give it a different favourable spin.

          Yes, and if Key had been the one responding to an (urgent?) message he would not have been photographed because it would have been regarded as acceptable. Cunliffe does it and there is the usual puerile attempt to paint it as “disrespectful”.

          • Paul 12.2.1.2.1
            25 April 2014 at 7:36 pm

            It is puerile.
            Reminds of some kids we had to tolerate when I was a teenager.

          • felix 12.2.1.2.2
            26 April 2014 at 2:21 am

            Still, it’s good to see how scared Cameron – and therefore the PM’s office – is of Cunliffe.

    • ianmac 12.3
      25 April 2014 at 5:15 pm

      Under duress I went to look at WO. I suppose the proNAT/ACT are bound to make something out of nothing. After all they have reason to be afraid of David. I read all the comments, (yes I know) and wondered about the endless repetitions. I suppose it is like Captions on the Standard but here it is often meant to be funny. Over there it sounds like a dirge. Is that the best that they can do?

      • David H 12.3.1
        25 April 2014 at 8:48 pm

        I went too. But unlike you I gave up after 1 page of ‘comments’. Now I am off to have a bath and scrub myself clean. Shudder.. They should use WO as a punishment for prisoners.

    • felix 12.4
      25 April 2014 at 6:54 pm

      Meh Jimmie, what a boring story.

      1) It’s on whaleoil, a site run by a boy who has openly admitted that he edits video to change the meaning of things people say, and who has said at various times that truth is not important and that truth is whatever he says it is at the time.

      2) No-one knows what David was doing. In one pic he seems to be taking a photo, so it’s not a huge leap to suggest that he might have been turning on a camera app rather than checking messages or tweeting or whatever terrible crime Cameron is charging him with.

      3) No-one knows what was happening at the time. I’m going to take a stab and say it wasn’t during The Ode.

      • Pascal's bookie 12.4.1
        25 April 2014 at 7:06 pm

        haven’t looked.

        Is it worse than time the PM skipped out a military funeral to watch his kid play rounders, coincidentally meaning the GCSB had to get the Acting PM to sign a warrant in an attempt to keep the fact they illegally spied on someone from being exposed in court? And then when the PM got back in the country after the rounders expedition everyone ‘forgot’ to mention anything to him.

        But the soldiers at least got their funeral. But not with the PM there.

        I’m guessing, ‘not worse’.

        • felix 12.4.1.1
          25 April 2014 at 8:46 pm

          Nah that was ok ‘cos as Key said at the time – actual words* – his kid “makes lots of sacrifices”.

          *close enough, happy to be corrected.

  13. captain hook 13
    25 April 2014 at 6:41 pm

    how much is whale boil paying jimmie to shiil his blog here?
    oh I forgot.
    Jimmie is just another of the fat ones aliases anyway.
    nothing to see here.

  14. Paul 14
    25 April 2014 at 7:11 pm

    Better heading.
    ‘Wealthy overseas interests will benefit if the left doesn’t win election.’
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11243535

    • srylands 14.1
      25 April 2014 at 7:16 pm

      The left will win the election. There are no right wing parties contesting it.

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1
        25 April 2014 at 7:22 pm

        The Tories under Thatcher were too centrist for you

      • Paul 14.1.2
        25 April 2014 at 7:25 pm

        The nonsense you speak is not worth responding to, apart from a request that you don’t bother engaging. Thank you

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.3
        25 April 2014 at 9:29 pm

        Occasionally I think that he’s someone who can think at least as well as a five year old but most of the time I figure sorrylands is just a well programmed bot.

        • Clemgeopin 14.1.3.1
          25 April 2014 at 11:09 pm

          This idiot, like Hooton, probably thinks that he can convince us by his right wing lies and propaganda.

    • Naki Man 14.2
      25 April 2014 at 10:05 pm

      Paul
      You must be forgetting that the vast majority of the shares are New Zealand owned, so the reality is
      New Zealand will benefit when the left doesn’t win the election. The truth is the left is bad for business confidence and bad for employment. I guess this is just another one of your lame attempts to spin bullshit

      • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1
        26 April 2014 at 2:10 am

        The truth is the left is bad for business confidence and bad for employment.

        The point that you don’t understand is that that that’s not a bad thing.

      • felix 14.2.2
        26 April 2014 at 2:15 am

        Whenever a rwnj says “the reality is” you can be sure you’re about to hear a description of a parallel universe.

        No, “NZ” doesn’t benefit. A tiny amount of already wealthy NZers do.

  15. Paul 15
    25 April 2014 at 7:20 pm

    The nonsense you speak is not worth responding to, apart from a request that you don’t bother engaging.

  16. captain hook 16
    25 April 2014 at 7:45 pm

    to karol.
    in some middle eastern countries there are whole apartmentblocks that hve been abandoned because no infrastructure was ever put in place to take out the trash and the inhabitants just stored it all in the spare rooms until if became to foul to tolerate anymore.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.