Open mike 25/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:56 am, June 25th, 2014 - 143 comments
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143 comments on “Open mike 25/06/2014 ”

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  1. Clemgeopin 1
    25 June 2014 at 8:33 am

    Labour will unveil its alternative Budget today.
    Here are some details:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10197041/Labour-to-unveil-alternative-budget

    • Chooky 1.1
      25 June 2014 at 8:54 am

      certainly seems to be an improvement on what we have got !…would like to hear specific policies soon eg state and tertiary education…incentives for tertiary education (loan/interest issues) are crucial for attracting the young NZers vote.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1
        25 June 2014 at 1:01 pm

        Not just the young NZers. National’s changes to education will prevent many older people from taking up any education as well. And these would be the people who, due to changing technology, have come to the end of their career path and need the education to get a job at all.

        National have been throwing a lot of people on the scrap heap, young and old, so that they can claim a surplus while still borrowing.

        • Chooky 1.1.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 8:41 pm

          +100…affordable if not free tertiary or polytech education is a light at the end of the tunnel for many NZers thrown on the scrap heap….a chance for another career , to meet new people, to learn new skills, to start their own business…this is why Continuing Education is so important as well

    • Ant 1.2
      25 June 2014 at 9:09 am

      Better late than never I guess… but politically, isn’t the best time for an alternative budget when the government releases their one?

      Seems about a month too late, the conversation is over and National won it largely unopposed. Releasing this now looks like more evidence of how risk averse and conservative Labour is. Constantly reactionary, never willing to take the fight to National or take a risk in preempting them.

      I bet it also adheres to Nationals framing of ‘fiscal responsibility’ thereby endorsing their current economic management.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1
        25 June 2014 at 11:34 am

        Better late than never I guess… but politically, isn’t the best time for an alternative budget when the government releases their one?

        Seems about a month too late, the conversation is over and National won it largely unopposed.

        A shadow budget starts a discussion on alternatives and lets the public know that there are indeed other choices possible. It should be more radical and somewhat provocative to that end, but it should drive toward setting up a consistent narrative – inequality, insufficient incomes, housing affordability as the short term narratives, and climate change/resource depletion/sovereignty as the medium and long term narratives.

        The shadow budget puts the govt on the defensive over the choices its made.,

        80 days before the election is when this well developed public narrative, gets fleshed out with gutsy, detailed policy.

  2. Skinny 2
    25 June 2014 at 9:10 am

    While Labour announce a policy to cramp down on mainly American Multi National Corporations tax avoidance http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11280992

    Key-National pander to the Americans by supporting Obama’s intentions to forge ahead with the TTPA, cutting out Japan who are strongly opposed due to valid concerns. By his actions Key is selling us down the toilet to the Corporations.

    If we had half decent media in this Country they would be taking Key-National to task, not sitting idle and praising his US trip as a huge success. A few left commentators have rightly pointed out Key goes to the States, doesn’t get any major runs on the board, and instead gets us tangled in backing a war. What a disgrace!

    • Chooky 2.1
      25 June 2014 at 10:12 am

      +100

    • Colonial Viper 2.2
      25 June 2014 at 11:47 am

      This is, in relative terms, very gutsy policy from Labour as it targets the big multinationals – well done. An extra ~$200M in tax revenue out of $15B in foreign ownership shipped offshore isn’t much – but it does send a signal.

      • blue leopard 2.2.1
        25 June 2014 at 11:57 am

        Careful CV – you are almost sounding like you are being supportive of a Labour stance there…

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2
        25 June 2014 at 2:04 pm

        They need to say that all income in NZ will be taxed in NZ before it leaves the country and that offshore expenses aren’t tax deductible for either NZ companies or foreign. This will make many present tax avoidance schemes obsolete while still treating onshore and offshore companies the same.

        It will also encourage diversification in NZ’s economy.

        • alwyn 2.2.2.1
          25 June 2014 at 3:36 pm

          “and that offshore expenses aren’t tax deductible for either NZ companies or foreign.”

          Can you clarify this statement? On the face of it it would appear to pick up something as simple as a car dealer who imported cars from Japan and sold them in New Zealand.

          Suppose they bought the car in Japan for $20k, paid freight of $3k and then sold the car in New Zealand for, say $30k plus GST. Lets say staff and premises cost $3k per car. This would mean a real profit of $4k/car. It also means offshore expenses of $23k/car.

          As you appear to word it they would have to pay tax on $27k (car price minus the firms operating cost) rather than the $4k profit they are really making.

          What am I misunderstanding?

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2.1.1
            25 June 2014 at 5:19 pm

            The dealer isn’t the one buying the car?

            Also, I did say that it would encourage diversification in our economy 😈

            But mostly I was thinking of transfer pricing and how it can, and is, used to rort the tax system.

    • blue leopard 2.3
      25 June 2014 at 11:54 am

      Yeah good stuff Labour – I guess we can now expect another massive attack on Labour shortly from our business-interests-friendly and people-interests-hostile media…..

    • NickS 2.4
      25 June 2014 at 11:58 am

      Sweet, though the usual suspects are going to complain that taxing google et al is “wrong”.

  4. dimebag russell 4
    25 June 2014 at 9:34 am

    Time for someone to do some serious research into HBL (health benefits limited) whcih seems to have been set up by National so its pals can scam the health system. They have got $700,000 so far.
    The Association of Salaried Medical specialists are calling it a PONZI scheme.

    • freedom 4.1
      25 June 2014 at 9:59 am

      The HBL is just one more page in the tome of How to Rort the System.

      I know I am only an unwanted drain on resources that the economy seems to have no use for apart from stomping on my progress and doing whatever it can to destroy the numerous attempts I have made to contribute to my society but I have a question….

      How are private consultants who charge multiple times per hour what a salaried staffer receives, and work just as many hours as the salaried staffer would, ever going to save money?

      • ianmac 4.1.1
        25 June 2014 at 10:11 am

        Funny how National Radio and Stuff and others are full of the HBL rort but the Herald is silent. Suppose they don’t want to upset Key/Ryall?
        @Stuff:”
        The Capital & Coast District Health Board could back out of a flagship government cost-cutting drive, as a leaked report compares the money-saving push to Novopay, and attacks it for funnelling cash away from patient care.

        In a series of leaked documents, the multimillion-dollar push to consolidate back-office health work, led by cost-cutting agency Health Benefits Ltd (HBL), has been called the greatest threat to public health services in a generation, and a debacle comparable to Novopay.”
        Should have been worth a mention at the Herald.

        • greywarbler 4.1.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 11:59 am

          Ryall has been praised in the past for keeping the contentious and costly health portfolio ticking along without too many hiccups.
          Guess The Hairy didn’t want to rile him. Boom. boom (Basil Brush the Fox).

          • greywarbler 4.1.1.1.1
            25 June 2014 at 6:48 pm

            Why is it a crime to have reports on government activity? Now they are hot on the trail about HBL information. Leaked documents about government and related matters should not be necessary as government should be reporting all the time on what it is doing with our money or for the people who it is acting on behalf of.

            Simple really. All else turns government into a group of mandarins acting as secular priests selectively evealing the Good Word to the supplicant populace.

        • greywarbler 4.1.1.2
          25 June 2014 at 12:30 pm

          HBL quoted this a.m. on RNZ as promising to be more transparent. How fast things happen near elections. We promise we are going to be good and save lots of money at great cost to the country and great financial advantage to us and the combined thinking and decision making of the DHB financial executives doesn’t amount to diddly-squat.

          In some inititiatives? in running large entities, the management have asked workers at all levels to come up with efficiency ideas and money-saving practices and highlight faults that result in wastage. But that sort of thing is just doing things on the cheap, and can’t really be considered when the whole trend is to cut staff anyway to get the labour bill down, employ juniors, sack expensive seniors, and dismiss institutional knowledge because it will be out of touch, based on wasteful practices. And further there is no money in it for specialist change agents who swoop in, upset the games board so all the pieces fall to the floor, and devise something new and exciting that will have to be rehashed within a decade at a fee that reflects the inflated expectations of experts in transforming the mistakes of previous change agents.

          I have changed my mind about election periods – I once thought every four years would allow a government that had good intentions to serve the country well, to have the time to get its policies going and achieving good outcomes.

          But I am so foolish, fancy hanging on to the idea of a government having good intentions for the country. Now I think we should hold elections every two years to try and limit the damage before the slightly different government can come in and reverse some of the recent innovations, and then impose their own version of TINA.

          • phillip ure 4.1.1.2.1
            25 June 2014 at 3:42 pm

            i like the idea of a two-year term..

            ..where those elected need seriously extenuating circumstances to do anything else than what they have promised the electorate they will do..

            ..(with the people given the ability..(electronic-voting?)..to call an early election themselves..should the govt err..)

            ..it wd nip secret-agendas in the bud..and keep the bastards accountable..

            ..and reduce politicians to what they should be..effective-managers/servants of the people..

            ..basically..politicians should just fuck off with their personal-politics..they have a caretaker/common-good role..and yes..they can differentiate by their promised policies..

            ..but as for imposing the whole package of their ‘politics’..as has been done to us far too often..

            ..with the randite key being the latest..imposing the twisted objectivist/fuck the poor! -policies that are randite policies..

            ..that is why key seems to just not care about the poor..that’s ‘cos he doen’t care about the poor..

            ..and he uses the teachings of ayn rand as the philosophical-underpimings for that ability to just ignore the fact that one in four nz children live in poverty..

            ..here..in nz..one of the richest/most-blessed countries..

            ..we have no rational reasons to be happy about that..

            ..it’s just those fucken politicians and their fucken politics..

            ..once again..they can just fuck off..

            ..we need to get the politics out of politicians..

            (as an aside..i am heavily opposed to a four year term..for most of the above reasons..)

            • greywarbler 4.1.1.2.1.1
              25 June 2014 at 4:38 pm

              I’m glad you have responded to the idea phillip. haven’t read all yours yet. (It’s stopped raining and I am taking the chance to get out dry.)

              But I’ve been thinking about a group who are really interested in the country and have done some study and passed a diploma on government and the citizen actually choosing a series of works and measures, and conferring with government as to how to go ahead and what order. This in conjunction with select committees allowing other citizens to have input. Things would be slower but then a lot of time is spent in government reversing, changing things and repairing mistakes.

              I’ll just throw in this link to Town Meetings on wikipedia.
              I have heard of them especially the ones in Vermont but haven’t studied them or read this yet. But I’ll have a look later. I have heard that they get a lot of public participation in their decision making. Thought I’d just put it up for interest.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_meeting

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2
      25 June 2014 at 9:59 am

      According to RNZ, Labour have asked the AG to investigate.

  5. weka 5
    25 June 2014 at 10:04 am

    They’re not. The point isn’t to save money, the point is to distrubute the money differently. And disenfranchise a whole lot of people so they will do the shit work in society. Plus it’s part of the medium term agenda of privatisation.

    From another unwanted drain on resources, kia kaha freedom. Know that the ‘economy’ you are being excluded from is inherently flawed on so may levels and none of this is your fault. It will eventually fail. In the meantime let’s look to our communities instead.

  6. swordfish 6
    25 June 2014 at 10:26 am

    Just posted some new stats / analysis of the latest Fairfax/Stuff-Ipsos Poll, with an emphasis on the importance of the views of the Undecideds and on its striking contrast with the latest Roy Morgan. sub-zero pols here…http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/

    (Still a work in progress, though. Transformed the design, influenced, in part, by the views of Standardistas a couple of days ago. Looks bloody fantastic I have to say but, as Weka rightly implied, is deeply impractical visually. So, I’ll probably alter it to something a little more legible in a few weeks time. But, I’ll leave it as it is for a couple of weeks, savouring its futuristic/Space Age qualities. It’s almost like we’re living in the year 1999 !).

    See also Puddleglum’s excellent analysis on The Political Scientist here…http://www.thepoliticalscientist.org/the-real-story-in-the-fairfax-polls/

    • greywarbler 6.1
      25 June 2014 at 12:02 pm

      @swordfish
      Looks like you are entering Blip et al territory for services to better politicalinformation and understanding.

  7. karol 7
    25 June 2014 at 10:34 am

    Jane Clifton uses a jokey tone to expose how out of order the Speaker was yesterday:

    Claims of clairvoyance and effeminate financial malfeasance, and offers of deals not to do deals, yesterday in Parliament was one, to quote the prime minister, of mumbo jumbo.

    […]
    When Labour’s David Parker stood to raise a point of order about something Finance Minister Bill English had just said in answer to his question about the export sector, Carter smelt biffo and tried to be pro-active.

    “Order! . . . I listened carefully to the answer. The question was addressed,” he ruled.

    Trouble was, Parker had only got four words out before Carter interrupted him and ruled. They were, “My question did not . . .” To the lay person, these four words did not by themselves articulate the nature of his complaint – yet Carter had ruled the complaint unwarranted.

    In vain, Parker and several colleagues applied for the chance for Parker to finish at least a sentence of his point of order so that Carter might know what he had actually ruled against.

    “I didn’t need to listen any further to the member,” Carter said crisply, and warned all subsequent point of order-raisers that he would not tolerate their relitigating the issue. Except, of course, that no-one knew what the issue was.

    • phillip ure 7.1
      25 June 2014 at 10:43 am

      tho’ i think carter is the worst of the speakers since i have been doing commentaries on q-time..

      ..i do have some sympathy for him on this..

      ..as that is the objection that parker always makes..

      ..and i do mean ‘always’..

      ..so there was no clairvoyance needed for carter to know what parkers’ complaint was this time..

      ..(tho’ carter does seem to have an almost visceral dislike of parker..

      ..you can almost hear his teeth-grinding as/when parker jumps up to again complain his question wasn’t answered..)

      • bad12 7.1.1
        25 June 2014 at 11:52 am

        The Speaker of the House isn’t the only one with a a visceral dislike of Parker, my opinion of Him as a Monetarist Neo-Lib hasn’t as yet been altered by anything so far said from Him or about Him,

        i took yesterday’s question time in the Parliament as a complete capitulation by Labour over the Liu donations saga, and, it all looked to me to have been completely pre-scripted to the point where there was agreement between National and Labour that the issue would not be raised,

        Given the perfect opportunity to pillory Slippery the Prime Minister over His previous utterances of there having been ”six figure donations” from Liu to Labour, David Cunliffe chose instead to ask what in effect was a patsy question,

        This weak exchange was then followed by a series of ”patsy questions” to the Minister of Finance, in among them the patsy from Parker,

        Just what the hell sort of answer He expects to gain from English is beyond me, every question so far asked by Parker of English is a pro forma one which English simply deflects by reading from a different data set than what Parker does,

        The little spat that then ensues, as Phillip alludes to is also pro forma boredom with Parker always claiming that English hasn’t answered the question, its all dancing on the head of a pin, as English does answer the question using different data sets than Parker chooses to use,

        As far as Carter as the Speaker goes, He just about has me casting a Party Vote for Labour in September for the sole reason of having the Parliaments Blackadder,(Mallard), be given the role, i can well imagine Trev in all His bloody mindedness adding a much needed dose of spices to the proceedings of what has become an exercise in tedium…

        • phillip ure 7.1.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 12:22 pm

          the ‘tedium’/irrelevance to very much at all..is why i have actually stopped doing commentaries..

          ..it is a circus of highly-paid performing clowns/seals…

          ..and shows most in an ugly light…

          ..and yes..’boring’…

          ..i have/had this view of q-time as being the coalface of democracy in action..

          .the cut/thrust/parry etc. of democracy..

          ..and very important for that reason..

          ..but it ain’t..

          ..and if it ‘ain’t’..i don’t know what the fuck is…

      • alwyn 7.1.2
        25 June 2014 at 3:47 pm

        “tho’ i think carter is the worst of the speakers since i have been doing commentaries on q-time..”

        That really can’t have been a very long time then Phil. A maximum of five and a half years in fact.
        There is no way that Margaret Wilson was a better Speaker than Carter is. She was an appalling Speaker of the House.

        • phillip ure 7.1.2.1
          25 June 2014 at 4:05 pm

          “..A maximum of five and a half years in fact..”

          ..this govt has been in power for five and a half yrs..

          and by ‘worst’..i mean most biased in favour of govt..

          ..i thought wilson was fairly even-handed in dishing out her snarls…

          ..this one is a shocker..

          • alwyn 7.1.2.1.1
            25 June 2014 at 4:18 pm

            That is of course why I picked that length of time.
            On the other hand I really don’t want to have to remember how bad I thought she was so we had better agree to disagree on what we thought of her as a Speaker, and how she compares to Carter.
            I thought Lockwood Smith was bloody good, but it may have only been in comparison with his predecessor. He was better than Carter is and he always seemed to manage to keep a good humoured manner.
            Certainly he was different to Hunt and Wilson in that he did make the Ministers make some attempt to address the politically neutrally worded questions.

            • felix 7.1.2.1.1.1
              25 June 2014 at 7:36 pm

              Not just “address”.

              The Smith doctrine was that questions actually require answering, and that the lesser requirement of only “addressing” allows too much scope for vague and meaningless responses.

              Of course Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine reversed this healthy change immediately upon taking the chair.

    • freedom 7.2
      25 June 2014 at 11:12 am

      some potential points of order Parker might have been about to ask, but we will never know
      My question did not;

      :ask for yet another reminder that dairy exports are becoming a noose around the necks of kiwi farmers.

      : ask for more evidence of how National stick their heads into the magical sand of what might be.

      : need the fantasies of double dipping droids to tell us what we already know, which is NZ is facing a steep decline in dairy exports over the next decade.

      : ignore reality like the Minister has done every time this Government’s failed policies are shown to be driving kiwi manufacturers to the wall from Bluff to Kaitaia.

  9. blue leopard 9
    25 June 2014 at 10:55 am

    Colonial Vipers’ Audio Production:

    Mickey Savage wrote this comment on yesterday’s Open Mike:

    What is going on with Radio New Zealand?

    Cunliffe was interviewed this morning. He said that if Labour obtained 34% then they would have x new MPs. Espiner asked if that was a target and Cunliffe clearly said no and their aspirations were higher.

    Now at 8 am they are reporting that Labour’s target is 34% …

    CV has put together this short audio in response to that comment comparing the two items:

    https://mega.co.nz/#!Ikd1xThK!CqAVY_vYN2zPlZdErRhMtCX8OZFcp-vx4qBFbqllxMc

  10. travellerev 10
    25 June 2014 at 10:56 am

    For those of you interested in the situation in Iraq, the strange, new, incredibly wealthy “terror” group called ISIL or ISIS. Here is a good start: Max And Stacey On The Corporation Called ISIL”> And Why This Is Important To New Zealand

  11. dimebag russell 11
    25 June 2014 at 11:04 am

    eckshully one of the major problems with the media in NZ is that they are uneducated.
    They may have acquired some leaning on an ad hoc piecemeal basis but essentially they are trained.
    you know. like performing seals.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1
      25 June 2014 at 4:29 pm

      +1

      The lack of real world experience really shows through in the reporting that we get.

  12. blue leopard 12
    25 June 2014 at 11:42 am

    Great stuff:

    An appeal to the Quartet on the Middle East to sack Tony Blair

    Professor Noam Chomsky, Sir Richard Dalton, Caroline Lucas, Ken Livingstone and others argue that the former UK prime minister is tainted by the war in Iraq

    “This Friday, 27 June, will mark the seven-year anniversary of Tony Blair’s appointment as the Quartet representative to the Middle East. We, the undersigned, urge you to remove him with immediate effect as a result of his poor performance in the role, and his legacy in the region as a whole.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/24/appeal-to-quartet-on-middle-east-sack-tony-blair?CMP=fb_gu

    (There is a link to a petition @ change.org on the page)

  13. NZ Femme 13
    25 June 2014 at 11:54 am

    Posted on ferret thread also:

    Liu is now saying that the $100 G is inclusive of the Barker cruise ($50G – 60G), the rowing club donation ($2G) and several bottles of wine he won at auction.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11281460

    • greywarbler 13.1
      25 June 2014 at 12:06 pm

      This man Liu is adept at presenting a moving target. Has he plenty of time on his hands and a very agile mind to think all this up? Or is he being coached by CT or other NACT financial and public relations advisors?

      • NZ Femme 13.1.1
        25 June 2014 at 12:21 pm

        Circling back to when he wrote the original statement – May 3rd – it was two days after Maurice Williamson resigning over the phone calls he made on Liu’s behalf to police.

        Collins was having her melt down and hitting out at the media, essentially blaming them for Williamson’s woes. And it was Jared Savage who broke the Williamson story. (and Cunliffe Letter & Donation stories)

        Can’t help wondering if they set up Jared as well as Labour. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

    • fender 13.2
      25 June 2014 at 12:13 pm

      Story changes too often to be taken seriously, not to mention a gross inflation in the cost of a river cruise.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.2.1
        25 June 2014 at 4:33 pm

        Oh, I’m sure that 50 to 60 thou to throw a party for the people who work at a business is quite reasonable. Then claiming that it was spent solely on the minister is stretching credibility beyond breaking point.

    • blue leopard 13.3
      25 June 2014 at 12:18 pm

      This is getting beyond ridiculous

      “Today, Liu said: “I did say I made a contribution of close to $100,000 and that is my closing comment in my statement…that is how much I believe I have donated in total to Labour and some of their MPs during their last term in Government.”

      “I have no reason to inflate this number. It’s as best as I can remember” said Liu.

      ‘Believe’?, ‘Best I can remember’?

      What happened to good accounting practices? Doesn’t he have records of these things?

      This is unacceptable – it is rubbish. Why didn’t the media check this out prior to spending all last week lambasting Labour and distracting us all from real news?

      • ffloyd 13.3.1
        25 June 2014 at 12:28 pm

        Sounds like it has been dictated by johnkey..

        • blue leopard 13.3.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 12:36 pm

          LOL! That is probably closer to the truth than I care to imagine!

          • Kiwiri 13.3.1.1.1
            25 June 2014 at 4:40 pm

            Still a long way to bridge the truth. It is no wonder there was no affidavit or Liu will find himself now dragged to court.

            And then there was the NZH editor with his proven experience and demonstrated knowledge that all became very evident when he labelled the distinction between the statement and an affidavit as “immaterial”.

  14. James 14
    25 June 2014 at 12:07 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11281460

    Lui makes another statement – clarifying, but also confirming that he gave close to $100,000 in total payments to Labour and its MPs – including anonymous donations.

    Looks like this is going to play out longer in the news – and again not in a good way for labour.

    People (on here anyway) keep going on about proving a negative – Perhaps Labour could come out and call him a liar if they really believe it? (guessing that they wont).

    Is there any record of the reason Labour have given for granting him residency against official advise?

    (not saying they are linked – but I am curious.)

    • wtl 14.1
      25 June 2014 at 12:12 pm

      No, it’s a fucking joke. The $100,000 includes donations to a rowing club, which isn’t the Labour Party, and payment for a company cruise which Rick Barker attended*, which wasn’t actually for benefit of the Labour Party or Rick Barker. If he is being so economical with the truth about these things, it pretty much means nothing he says can be believed.

      * If I invite you to my wedding that costs $50k, does this mean I donated $50k to you? Yeah fucking right.

    • karol 14.2
      25 June 2014 at 12:14 pm

      It’s getting boring. So he made several anonymous donations – ones which it seems no-one in Labour knew about – so how can that in anyway be wrong on Labour’s part, or be evidence of cash for favours?

      And it is now looking like Liu inflated the amount to include that cruise, etc. An on-going beat-up by Liu, the Nats, and the compliant MSM.

      • blue leopard 14.2.1
        25 June 2014 at 12:20 pm

        +1 It proves jack shit and got boring the day it came out 🙁

        • James 14.2.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 12:23 pm

          Admittedly in this case boring would depend on what political view you have. Some people have found it amusing to watch.

          • Naturesong 14.2.1.1.1
            25 June 2014 at 12:31 pm

            If you think it’s just a game, then sure.

            If you recognise that this is our democracy being trashed, not so much.

          • blue leopard 14.2.1.1.2
            25 June 2014 at 12:33 pm

            Yes I can see how it could be funny for some who don’t consider how it adds nothing toward creating informed voters and plenty toward a whole bunch of misinformed ones.

            Perhaps those laughing are happy about gaining a government through misinformed voters basing their decisions on made up shit. I find the prospect pretty disturbing.

            There are only a very small percentage of people in this country who are advantaged by an outcome created in this way. They will certainly be laughing. I suggest that anyone else not in that group who are laughing are simply delusional sycophantic gibbering idiots.

          • McFlock 14.2.1.1.3
            25 June 2014 at 1:16 pm

            The no-favours for no-donations “scandal” has been hilarious. /sarc

            Meanwhile our corrupt and, I believe, criminal government continues business as usual.

          • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1.1.4
            25 June 2014 at 4:38 pm

            If you found it amusing then I suspect that just proves you’re sociopathy.

    • blue leopard 14.3
      25 June 2014 at 12:27 pm

      “Is there any record of the reason Labour have given for granting him residency against official advise?”

      I haven’t seen any official record, however I am of the impression that money takes a high priority in these decisions – if someone has oodles they are likely to get into the country – because we are suckers for a large bank balance here in NZ.

      Money counts and nothing much else matters. That is ‘common business practice’ these days aye? …and successive governments simply reflect this.

      This way of approaching business just collapses in on itself and undermines the very society it relies on. It doesn’t work. Time for a change in thinking.

      • Draco T Bastard 14.3.1
        25 June 2014 at 4:47 pm

        I haven’t seen any official record, however I am of the impression that money takes a high priority in these decisions – if someone has oodles they are likely to get into the country – because we are suckers for a large bank balance here in NZ.

        Yep, Labour seem to have been as guilty of that as National.

        This way of approaching business just collapses in on itself and undermines the very society it relies on. It doesn’t work. Time for a change in thinking.

        We need to get away from the current culture that a few being rich is good for society. It isn’t and never has been.

    • ffloyd 14.4
      25 June 2014 at 12:45 pm

      It’s a confirmation of nothing and clarification of nothing. Surely for that to be possible he would need to make the actual cost of donations, the date of the donations, where he made the donations, publics that we can see that he is not lying. He seems to have no idea of any sequence and timing of alleged donations. In the first instance he confirmed that he bought wine to the value of 100.000.00 and then he confirms that the wine was included in the 100.000.00 donation. Until Labour comes up with evidence of donations I am inclined to believe he is being manipulated. Also has Mr savage received any reply to his oia for letters relating to Mr Liu from woodhouse and Williamson? And has he got any more info on donations to national from Mr Liu? What a beat up. Starting to smack of ‘the boy who cried wolf’

      • blue leopard 14.4.1
        25 June 2014 at 12:49 pm

        “It’s a confirmation of nothing and clarification of nothing.”

        +100 That short sentence sums it up well.

    • Clemgeopin 14.5
      25 June 2014 at 1:46 pm

      I think Labour party should still demand an apology from this fellow along with from all those who tried to destabilise Labour. People and entities like Key, Slater, Whaleoil and also should sue them all to teach them a lesson not to play nasty sewer politics and dirty tricks from Key’s ‘top drawer’ as he himself proudly announced his Modus operandi recently.

      • lprent 14.5.1
        25 June 2014 at 1:56 pm

        I read something today from Labour that suggest that is exactly what they are thinking about for the NZ Herald and Liu

        • blue leopard 14.5.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 2:15 pm

          What about TVNZ and TV3? They reported this issue uncritically and wholesale too.

          • lprent 14.5.1.1.1
            25 June 2014 at 2:44 pm

            I’ve been off broadcast TV since September 2012. I never got around to fixing the TV aerial when we moved back into my apartment and put a cupboard right over it. It buggered the plugs and we had far too many other things to do at the time.. I never miss the obnoxious advertising and the shows designed for morans.

            So I don’t see most of their material unless I deliberately look at it because their on-demand TV doesn’t go onto the bluray/TV channels via the computer or the network link too well.

            Mind you Lyn does want to watch some of the ads for professional reasons. I should get the screwdriver out and fix it before she gets back from the US on saturday.

        • Clemgeopin 14.5.1.2
          25 June 2014 at 4:36 pm

          Suing for defamation may be good as it will teach the sewer right wing nasty vermin to behave and at the same time will let us concentrate on the policies without unnecessary time wasting unfair distractions. On the other hand, …….what are the possible downsides to that?

          • karol 14.5.1.2.1
            25 June 2014 at 4:51 pm

            There’s always a downside for politicians criticising the MSM. But then, given how strongly they have come out against Labour & Cunliffe, could it get any worse. Seems to me like there’s little now to lose by complaining, and everything to gain.

            • Colonial Viper 14.5.1.2.1.1
              25 June 2014 at 9:59 pm

              The main point missed so far is that the NZ Herald believes that it has the institutional right to throw the upcoming General Election, and fuck with this nation’s democratic processes as they see fit.

  15. King Kong 15
    25 June 2014 at 1:01 pm

    So the CTU are backing Labours plan…Now there is a turn up for the books.

    In other new, Ashburton farmer gives a big thumbs up for the Crusaders.

    [lprent: Diversion comment – banned 3 months. Moved to OpenMike. I do hope you thought that comment was worth doing. ]

    • NickS 15.1
      25 June 2014 at 1:16 pm

      Awww, I was so wanting to nail him with shiny spikes of sharply pointed reality over his bullshit.

      A 3 month ban is a good replacement though 😀

    • dimebag russell 15.2
      25 June 2014 at 2:46 pm

      its only wailboil in drag.
      he’s very simian.
      hairy and smelly and not very bright.

  16. fisiani 16
    25 June 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Labour candidate in Marlborough suggests recreational fishers should have a licence. I always thought Labour were “Give a man a fish” and National were “Teach a man to fish”. Now it appears that Labour are “Tax a man to fish.” Any wonder they are tanking in the polls.
    Tamati Coffey calls for Simon Bridges to resign for doing something approved by David Cunliffe. Any wonder they are tanking in the polls.

  17. phillip ure 17
    25 June 2014 at 3:56 pm

    jim mora called for listeners to txt in favourite smells..

    ..i sent in:..’primo bud burning’..

    ..mora sniffed:..’some people sent in irrevernt-smells..

    ..i won’t mention them..’

  18. Tautoko Viper 18
    25 June 2014 at 4:09 pm

    If you read this article about what is happening in the US then you will share my resolve to do as much as we can to oust this Natz government which seem to want to follow all of the worst policies from US or UK.
    “A Secret Plan to Close Social Security’s Offices and Outsource Its Work”
    https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/06/24-7

  19. Bearded Git 19
    25 June 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Sir Bruce Slane just took the Herald apart on its coverage of the Liu issue on The Panel, National Radio.

    Worth a listen.

  20. greywarbler 20
    25 June 2014 at 4:27 pm

    Tautoko Viper
    I don’t like the sound of ” The National Academy of Public Administration, or NAPA,”.
    Could easily be made into NAPALM with the apt descriptive words added ‘Limiting Measures”.

    Isn’t it amazing that the wealthier some people get, the more they want to hold their own and others’ rewards in life constantly more tightly to themselves.

  21. chris73 21
    25 June 2014 at 5:23 pm

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Labour-U-turns-over-dolphin-sanctuary-drilling/tabid/1607/articleID/350010/Default.aspx

    • From now on when Cunliffe makes an announdement its probably best to wait a couple of days to allow for the requisite backtrack
    • greywarbler 21.1
      25 June 2014 at 6:19 pm

      chris 73
      You are a sour negative little git. Why don’t you go on gardening leave.

      • chris73 21.1.1
        25 June 2014 at 6:31 pm

        Just wondering whos to blame for Cunliffes latest u-turn (so many u-turns I’m starting to get whiplash)

        A. The MSM
        B. National
        C. Whaleoil
        D. All of the above

  22. dimebag russell 22
    25 June 2014 at 6:36 pm

    he doesn’t blame anyone.
    it is the job of her majesties loyal opposition to sheet home responsibility for governmental failure and inadequacy.
    I blame you for being inane as you are utterly incapable of seeing the gross dereliction of governance by this government of venal little moneygrabbers!

  23. Clemgeopin 23
    25 June 2014 at 6:58 pm

    I missed the 6 pm news on both channels today. What I want to know from anyone that watched either, how much prominence was given to Labour’s alternate budget today? Cheers.

  24. dimebag russell 24
    25 June 2014 at 7:42 pm

    I think chrass 72 done toomany weetbix this morning and it has gone to his head.
    blame that.

  25. Colonial Viper 25
    25 June 2014 at 8:40 pm

    John Key: Portrait of a Prime Minister

    Published: 26/06/2014
    Format: Paperback, 256 pages
    RRP:$38.00
    ISBN-13:9780143570752
    ISBN-10:0143570757

    http://www.penguin.co.nz/products/9780143570752/john-key-portrait-prime-minister

    Gawd you have to love the audacity and guts of the Right Wing

    • Clemgeopin 25.1
      25 June 2014 at 9:47 pm

      Why waste $38 to further enrich a mega-wealthy foreign currency exchange gambling dude? The Liu man will probably buy the whole lot of copies for over $150,000 anyway and drink it all up on the Yangtze! Instead, here is a free portrait for your jaw dropping enjoyment. Watch the dudes at the back laughing their head off! You are welcome!
      http://tinyurl.com/lw4jypc

  26. Draco T Bastard 26
    25 June 2014 at 8:54 pm

    Biggest threat to world peace? The US

    In their annual End of Year survey, Win/Gallup International found that the United States is considered the number one “greatest threat to peace in the world today” by people across the globe.

    And our PM has just said that we’ll get closer to them and that we’ll help them with their wars.

  27. Colonial Viper 27
    25 June 2014 at 9:55 pm

    David Cunliffe leadership acceptance speech Sept 2013

    This style is what this campaign is needing right about now

    • Clemgeopin 27.1
      25 June 2014 at 10:21 pm

      I looked for the transcript of that speech, but couldn’t find it. Do you have a link for the script?

  28. Clemgeopin 28
    25 June 2014 at 9:58 pm

    On PRIME :

    Back Benches, Wednesday 10:50PM
    The MP pub panel discuss what the Prime Minister’s growing relationship with the U.S. means for NZ. Also, can child poverty really be linked to NZ’s superannuation age? PGR

  29. greywarbler 29
    25 June 2014 at 10:29 pm

    Judith C is planning to demand banks report on wire transfers over $1,000. This is to stop crime. The government wants to get in bed with us. They withdraw my 6 cents tax on my 36c interest. Tax is theft when they pinch cents off small savings. Yet you can take out $10,000 in cash. What’s that about?