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Open mike 25/10/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 25th, 2010 - 58 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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It’s open for discussing topics of interest, making announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

Comment on whatever takes your fancy.

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Step right up to the mike…

58 comments on “Open mike 25/10/2010 ”

  1. I am going to try and make today a hobbit free day …

  2. Blue Boy 2

    Has ayone seen the ‘Gooffather”, he’s been AWOL since the Labour Party Conference?

    • lprent 2.1

      He isn’t as obsessed about being in the cameras lens as clueless is. After all Goff is a competent politician rather than a mere dabbler in the arcane art. Consequently he doesn’t require that huddle of staff that clueless uses to bolster his confidence, and who seem to spend their time getting photo ops for him rather than keeping an eye on his rogue ministers who keep screwing up. Mind you I suppose it is easier doing that than trying to restrain Brownlee or Tolley.

      Does that answer your question? In the same daft vein as yours which should delight you. Do you have any further idiot troll type questions?

      Talking about Brownlee, this SNAFU occoured on his watch as Minister of Economic Development. Even for someone as incompetent as he is, this is a rather big set of blunders because he wasn’t watching a major project. I’m continually surprised that John Key leaves him in that portfolio. But I guess he is still grateful from when John got put in as leader of National.

      • Blue Boy 2.1.1

        You haven’t answered my question, WTF is Mr Invisible. He is obviously getting Trev to handle the heat on the Hobbitt issue. He needs to stand up and defend Labours position with the inept CTU and why they are trying to fuck up NZ film industry.

        • Anthony C

          What heat? This mess has nothing to do with Labour and absolutely nothing to do with Goff as much as you want to link them to it.

          Anyway open mike, it’s been sad and unsurprising to hear Helen Kelly and Robyn Malcolm receiving the same kind of misogynistic attacks that Helen Clark was subjected to in her later years as PM – I suppose disenfranchised and downtrodden middle-class white guys still haven’t gotten over the erosion of their status in society.

          • Blue Boy

            Stop looking I found him. He had better watch his back, the vulcures are circling.

            • lprent

              Just shows that you don’t read much. If it took you how long to find that? You really are a bit slow. Perhaps you should learn how to use google?

              • Colonial Viper

                National Party research unit is on leave for Labour Weekend so these guys are doing it all for themselves.

                • Fisiani

                  Halfway report card looking good for National. A very definite Achieved.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Wages pushed down, tick.
                    Workforce mobility reduced, tick.
                    Tax cuts for the wealthy enacted, tick.
                    Union bashing commenced, tick.
                    Bail out of financial speculators completed, tick.
                    Adult education for those out of work cut back, tick.
                    Home help for the frail and the elderly slashed, tick.

                    Oh that’s definitely ‘achieved’ alright. Brings a tear to my eye.

                  • lprent

                    Umm, no mention of

                    1. unemployment rates especially amongst the young and maori
                    2. increased welfare dependency by people receiving benefits
                    3. that the deficit has increased markedly largely because of taxcuts reducing the ability of the government to pay welfare
                    4. that opportunities overall for adult education have reduced markedly (to the detriment of us all over the long term
                    5. that none of the infrastructure apart from that started by the previous government is confirmed yet (eg broadband) because the government appears to be incapable of getting other people to sign up with their programs
                    6. that the overall spending on research, development and science is down because they cut many of the existing programs
                    7. etc etc

                    This list was obviously put together by a PR idiot who hopes people have short memories

                    • KJT

                      The hemorrhage of NZ business and jobs offshore continued unabated despite dropping wages to developing country levels.

          • M

            ‘.. it’s been sad and unsurprising to hear Helen Kelly and Robyn Malcolm receiving the same kind of misogynistic attacks that Helen Clark was subjected to in her later years as PM – I suppose disenfranchised and downtrodden middle-class white guys still haven’t gotten over the erosion of their status in society.’

            Yeah, it’s the only way some guys are able to crack a fat


          • Vicky32

            Yes, I have noticed the misogyny, and the thick, manky smell of testosterone…

        • lprent

          I don’t think that Labour have a position on it. What they are correctly doing is largely staying out of an industrial dispute as has been the convention for many years. I’d have to note with approval that the National party or the NACT government is also not saying anything much about it either at present. The initial comments that did come from that side were quite ill-advised and I’m quite glad they appear to have stopped. Changing conditions of labour law is a fraught situation when it is done on the basis of idiotic reflex.

          The only comment that i have seen by Trevor Mallard has been about the role of the Minister of Economic Development in getting a major investment into NZ

  3. come get some 3


    Fucking bludgers, dont they know it’s easy to buy a house

    • Ed 3.1

      Despite some small reductions in house prices, reducing incomes (remember median age has reduced by $5 to $9 in the last year under National) probably mean that for many New Zealanders it has never been harder to buy a house. Banks are not as ready to lend 90% of purchase price, especially to people in teh income bands where unemployment continues to increase.

      Also noted from that article:
      “He is proposing that new tenants be told their tenancies will be reviewed every three, five or 10 years to make sure they are still the right people for that home.

      If not, the house could be transferred to the non-profit sector such as the Salvation Army, or the tenants could buy the house, move to a more suitable home, or be evicted.”

      It seems that National propose to hand over management of State houses to charities . . . – or will they try to sell them?

      • Zorr 3.1.1

        Also, the thing not stated in that article is that HNZ -are- constantly reviewing the status of their tenants and that if they no longer meet the hardship requirements they start charging market rent on the house. Not exactly the free ride that they are being painted as.

        • ZeeBop

          Yeah, I thought it was a bit lapse of Housing NZ not to offer smaller accomadation when the
          kids leave home. They might leave people in a larger home just to keep it occupied until
          they free up smaller homes and that’s the crisis because there aren’t enough smaller homes
          in the private big is better developer led market.

          • Vicky32

            I would happily move to a smaller home as my son has moved out – but not until I have a job! Until then, I am trying to lie low, and not be noticed by HCNZ, they mess up all the time.

    • NickS 3.2

      What is it with National choosing Minister who don’t grok logic?

      Probably the standout bit is this:

      Heatley said long waiting lists show the current system is not working.

      Which is a clear supply/demand issue, caused by a combination of factors such as the housing market bubble, which caused rents to increase to levels the poorer segments of the NZ population couldn’t afford, pus the current recession. And underlying it all is National’s selling off of state houses in the 90’s without replacing those assets, further stuffed up by Labour not really building sufficient numbers of state houses.

      Only addressing the suitability of tenants, will likely merely be a cheap band-aide, the sort that falls off rapidly, and combine this with Heatley saying they’ll be fobbing houses off to “charities” and National’s craptastic reasoning when it comes to infrastructure investment, it’s delusional to be optimistic anything good will come of this. Basically, in terms of logic, Heatley’s missing evidence that contradicts his arguments, but as we’ve seen over the holiday highway, ACC, National Standards etc, that’s just business as usual…

      More worrisome for me, while the Salvation Army are fairly egalitarian and don’t really discriminate on basis of religion, race sexuality etc, and only really evangelise via “good works” rather than hard sell missionary stuff, other charities may not be so nice towards tenants…

      And given National’s habitats of fobbing stuff off to “mates”, colour me pessimistic that this any other than a bad idea.

  4. And here at Downtown Auckland there are maybe 25 protestors, a couple of kids dressed as hobbits and the odd sign. And no speakers or sound system. They should have got the unions to organise the ralley …

  5. Gina 5

    OK Guys.
    I saw Q&A online yesterday with Phil Goff. He has really lifteed his game and was very good.
    Paul Holmes looked like a frantic idiot and kept repeating the mantra ” Goff cannot win. If the election is free and fair I think he can but here’s where I start to worry.

    I’m having nightmares about the next election. I think the Nats are going to rig it via roll purges of the poor, poor single women and Maori voters as is similarly practiced in the USA by the republicans. Why do I have these suspicions. Well if you want ot know read on….

    First read the quote I’ve pasted in from the electoral commission website.

    “A law change is planned that will allow people to re-enrol or update their enrolment details online, without the need for a signed enrolment form.

    When people enrol or update their details now they can fill in the information online but they must complete the process by signing the completed form.

    The proposed law change in the Electoral (Administration) Amendment Bill No.2 will let people re-enrol and make changes to their details online using the ‘igovt’ government logon service which will require a password to protect security.

    The new online enrolment update facility is expected to be available for the next General Election, once the new bill has been passed.”

    Next read this article

    D.C. Internet Vote Scheme Hacker: ‘Within 36 Hours University of Michigan Had Total Control of Server, Ability to Change Votes, Reveal Secret Ballots’

    No signature required to update registration details. The mind bogles about the security of this system. This needs to outed for what it is. It must be stopped.

    And why not read this artickle also to see just how dumb it would be to have a very easily altered database for voter registrations.

    Iranian, Chinese Computers Also Discovered to Have Been Hacking D.C. Internet Voting System

    This sytem would be great for convienince if it were safe but no internet voting or registration scheme can be.These people at the University of Michigan along with many other Top computer scientists know that there are new threats every day and there is no way to guarantee security of the registration process on the Internet. This is why you update update your antivirus software every day. Because the interent is not secure even with passwords and encypton.

    I called your party office the other day and explained my concern to a woman who I cannot name, asking her who I should talk to in parliament about this.
    When I was explaining that this could totally jepordise our democracy and how lucky we were to have democracy I asked her was she concerned about the possibility of New Zealand becoming a dictatorship. She was adamant that “things were going that way” and she didn’t give a brass razoo. I kept on talking a bit but noticed she had gone quiet and thought she must have hung up on me like she had previously. At that point I thought she was off the phone and said something to the effect that she was mental. Unfortunately she was still on the phone and kindly returned the complement.
    I really have had enough after watching the whats been happening in the US and seeing it being repeated here. You see I value deomocracy and I’m sure most of you feel the same, but as National party member Don Mackinnon said a couple of years ago. There are only 13 true democracies in the world. Don also questioned whether democracy was the best system to keep food in the table. Why did he say these things? Helen Clarke assured us all that Don meant nothing by it but I’ve never felt comfortable with hearing that. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like and maybe a nice guy like Don is beyond reproach? Who knows!!

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      We have to keep a very sharp eye on proceedings over the next 6 months, of that there is no doubt.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      This sytem would be great for convienince if it were safe but no internet voting or registration scheme can be.

      Yes they can. All it requires is a security token or something like Kiwibanks’ Keepsafe. It’s almost impossible to break through either of those systems. It would still need to be watched for attacks, they certainly aren’t going away, but that’s no different from now as electoral fraud happens as the recent events in South Auckland proved.

      • Gina 5.2.1

        I have been assured that the government is not involved in elections and that the electoral commision administers them independantly. However they will be using “‘igovt’ government logon service which will require a password to protect security.”

        That sounds like we are going to use an existing government system for our registration process. Not independant at all.

        Who runs and programs this system. Im sorry but any system is vulnerable to government computer insiders who write the software. No system is secure from the programers employed or plants paid to corrupt elections for the highest bidder or perhaps a cause like the pro-life movement.If a government wants to fix it, its much easier to change mass registrations via computer especially with no signature required.

        Its much harder to change 100000 signed registration forms than for an insider who has inserted code into the software that enables that person to overide security systems.

        It may be a failsafe system if you can guarentee no corrput programing. And Draco T, if you looked at the code would you be able to tell if anything was a miss? Dont think so unless you are a programer. Forged signatures and documents however are much harder to achieve on a large scale and and much easier to detect.

        This is not safe and it looks like the only way to get this sorted will be to bring in computer experts here or from overseas with experience in this area. You cannot guarentee the programers integrity. So what looks like a well protected system may be corrupt from the beginning.

        Heres some info about Mike McConnel, an anti choice and Republican internet strategist.


        “top Republican internet strategist who was set to testify in a case alleging election tampering in 2004 in Ohio has died in a plane crash. Michael Connell was the chief IT consultant to Karl Rove and created websites for the Bush and McCain electoral campaigns. Michael Connell was deposed one day before the election this year by attorneys Cliff Arnebeck and Bob Fitrakis about his actions during the 2004 vote count in Ohio and his access to Karl Rove’s email files and how they went missing. ”

        Mike McConnell reportedly told Stephen Spoonamore (banking IT expert ) that the primary reason he helped Bush steal the elections was to save the babies. He was a staunch oponent of abortion. It was also reported that Mike regretted what he had done in his part in rigging the election was talking to anti internet voting activists and was going to public but was killed just before that would have happened.

        Watch Amy Goodman talking to Mark Crispen Miller about Connells election activities and Tragic Death on Democracy Now.


        You cannot guarantee the integrity of the programers period.

        • Draco T Bastard

          All those can be done through the paper system as well and there are ways and means of ensuring the coding is legit and not corrupted. The best way I’ve seen is Open Source and a Checksum.

          Can’t guarantee the integrity of paper counters either.

          • Gina

            “Can’t guarantee the integrity of paper counters either.”
            No you can’t however counters have scrutineers from all parties watching them counting votes. With corrupt code a whole election can be changed by one or two people in minutes. Scrutineers cannot see inside the machines counting votes or registering voters and all sorts of firmware can infect parts of the computer system not even connected with the main system. The CD drive in you computer has its own firmware built into it along with many other parts of the computer.

            Thats the difference. And one or two counters might count 10000 votes between them if they can get past the scrutineers. I person putting corrupt code into a computer can corrupt an entire election or electoral role easily if the system is administered by that code.

            One or two people miscounting votes will likely be picked up by the scrutineers but who can pick up computer fraud over an entire election. Who can watch every software and firmware part of every computer in the election. Not possible sorry.

            Its much easier to hack elections via computers and that is why they were introduced in the US. The costs of their systems are extortionate and most election officials have little to no training in how to use them and ensure a safe election. But don’t listen to me I advise you to talk to Banking IT CEO Stephen Spoonamore who has been involoved in banking security for 30 years and he will tell you that the internet cannot be secured for elections.

  6. Mickeysavage:

    Uhm are you getting the lastest updates from the marches???

    You said 25 protestors and acouple of kids dressed as hobbits?

    Do you work for faux news or something? You should because your good at lying.

  7. Draco T Bastard 7

    I’ve been thinking of the tax rort that international corporations partake in and how it can be eliminated.

    If I’m reading it correctly the corporation sets up a business in a country that has an income but it then offsets that income through billing expenses in another country effectively bypassing tax because the amount that is taxed is calculated as income – expenses. The foreign expenses are, of course, over-charged so as to minimise any taxes.

    Such shifting of expenses can be eliminated by ruling that overseas expenses are not tax deductible. This would ensure that taxes are paid as well as pushing for the local business to be an actual business that benefits the local economy rather than being a shell company with the sole purpose of funnelling money overseas without paying tax.

    • Jagilby 7.1

      “The foreign expenses are, of course, over-charged so as to minimise any taxes”

      As usual you’re wrong, don’t have a clue what you’re on about and just talking through a hole in your head..

      I’ll give you a headstart on the issue though – Look up the term “transfer pricing”. There’s a multitude of rules and regulations on it – indeed there’s a whole industry advising on it.

      Speaking of advice, before you start “thinking” again, you’d be well advised to read up on it before going on another mindless rant on the subject.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1

        And lots of companies still paying no taxes where they should be. This would indicate that the rules that you’re saying are there aren’t working.

        • Jagilby

          This is just comical now.

          Com’on let’s be honest here… You don’t have a shred of evidence to support that statement.

          A second ago you hadn’t even heard of transfer pricing (rules that have been in place and modified for 70-80 years) and now you, in your infinite wisdom aftering having a little “think”, are saying that the rules don’t work.

          Show me exactly what you’re basing that on – where transfer pricing regulations are failing and the quantum of tax revenue loss.

            • Jagilby

              Yeah, and your point?

              The IRD is onto it. Established rules and regulations are there to combat the issue.

              That’s exactly the point I was making.

              From the article:
              Overall, there was a high level of compliance with transfer pricing rules. “It is an area that you can never say is under control, but certainly it is one where we believe there has been high levels of compliance and good co-operation.”

              • Draco T Bastard


                The Dominion Post revealed in June that Google New Zealand expected to pay just $7726 tax in respect of its last financial year, less than the average teacher or building worker.

                Google does not break out its revenues outside the US and Britain, but it is understood it sold about $150 million worth of advertising to New Zealand customers.

                I’m sure that Google are obeying the laws but $8k on tax from $150m in revenue would indicate that the laws aren’t working. The rules are there but you can probably drive a truck through the loopholes.

                • jagilby

                  You, just as much as me, have no idea of what contributes to that tax result and I don’t have the patience or inclination to go through the notes in their annual report to find out.

                  What’s the big fucken deal, where are you getting $150m from??? That’s a blatant lie – Go check the annual statements on the companies office. Google had revenues of $3.4m in the last 2 years – $3.4m! Not to mention that they have terrible margins here.

                  You take a household name and make these grandstanding statements about them but neglect to mention what we’re talking about – $3.4m in revenue is absolute peanuts for Google. I’d suggest it’d even be below the level of materiality for their auditors.

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.2

        Jagilby just relax and impart your knowledge without imparting your ego, OK?

        Anyhows, Google uses a lot more than “transfer pricing” to gain an effective 2.4% non US tax rate. It uses “inter-company licensing fees and contracts for services” as well as known tax shelters like Bermuda.

        DTB – another way of stopping this kind of rorting by foreign multinationals is to have more local companies supplying your home markets. And a rock solid and well funded IRD/serious fraud office not afraid to hunt the big boys.

        • Jagilby

          I’ll impart my knowledge sans ego when people here stop making completely unsubstantiated, ill-informed statements against the “evil corporations”.

          It might very well be the case that Google uses a lot more than transfer pricing to achieve that effective tax rate – so what? If jurisdictions (democratic jurisdictions in the case of Burmuda, Cayman, Switzerland etc) want to turn itself into a tax haven then who are we to tell them they can’t?

          DTB was making the insinuation that transfer pricing was a major loophole that tax authorities just let slide for multinational corporations. I take offence to the fact that people can make such claims here and everyone jumps on the bandwagon without a skerrick of evidence or knowledge on the issue.

          Believe me the IRD is already well aware of transfer pricing issues and have a well funded team solely dedicated to ensuring that related party transactions take place at arm’s length prices. And yes, that applies to the “Big Boys” just as much as anyone else.

          • Draco T Bastard

            …want to turn itself into a tax haven then who are we to tell them they can’t?

            As I’ve told you before, such practices result in an imbalance to free-trade. They can do it, but we need to respond by making it expensive for them to do so.

  8. Tigger 8

    Jackson – “As an industry we are perfectly well-equipped through our various guilds to provide excellent terms and conditions for our film workers. If there are problems, it is up to us to use our guilds to resolve them.”

    This is a damn untruth and he knows it. For years the unions in the industry tried to negotiate minimum agreements with the producer’s organisation but due to the powerless position they were in they couldn’t achieve any real or lasting benefits. It was effectively put up with what we’re prepared to give you.

  9. Pascal's bookie 9

    What I learned today (wikileaks edition):

    In June 2004 an order was given such that war crimes reported to the coalition in Iraq would not be investigated where it was Iraqi on Iraqi. “”only an initial report will be made … No further investigation will be required unless directed by HQ”.”

    Also in June 2004 John Negroponte was appointed US ambassador to Iraq. He is obviously one unlucky fellow, having also been US ambassador to Honduras in the eighties where he was found to have turned a blind eye to violations of human rights committed by the US backed government of that nation.

    A coincidence I’m sure.

    • Vicky32 9.1

      Oh yes, I am sure it must be a coincidence, because he’s such a well-meaning fellow! 😀

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