Open mike 27/03/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 27th, 2019 - 174 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

174 comments on “Open mike 27/03/2019 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    27 March 2019 at 7:35 am

    High time social media toxicity resulted in an antidote: “New Zealand’s biggest news site has closed a huge swathe of their notorious comments section. Stuff editor in chief Patrick Crewdson spoke to The Spinoff about why they made the choice.” https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/27-03-2019/free-speech-under-attack-why-stuff-are-reining-in-their-comment-section/

    There’s “a whole lot of new rules designed to get rid of the assholes. A wide range of article topics – like 1080, vaccinations and the disputed region of Kashmir – just won’t have the comments open anymore. Along with that, they plan to be a lot tougher on where the line that cannot be crossed is. And – in what might seem like an unrealistically utopian development – they even plan to have an ‘editor’s pick’ function to highlight the best, most enlightening comments.”

    Carrot as well as stick. A traditional formula, usually works fairly well. “We asked Stuff’s editor in chief Patrick Crewdson why he was shutting down free speech. Why are you shutting down free speech? Because I’ve been ordered to by the World Government.”

    “Toldya so!” will probably be the most frequent response from WhaleOil commenters.

    “We’ve always had rules for comments, and before today we were rejecting around a third of the 7000 comments we receive daily. So this isn’t about the era of free speech coming to an end. It’s about our community standards, and drawing the boundary in a different place.”

    Cool, let’s have more fluid boundaries. Fixed boundaries are boring. “One of the other stipulations is that comments will be rejected if they “just generally aren’t very nice.” Hypothetically, say you had an article about The Spinoff on your site. What would be an example of a not very nice comment that would be rejected?”
    “I feel you’re trying to trick me into being mean to you.” Trickster is good, very valuable social archetype, pan-cultural too, let’s have more of that…

    • Kay 1.1
      27 March 2019 at 9:30 am

      Yeah well it’s about bloody time. Corporations have a social responsibility too. Just what a shame it takes a tragedy to give them the proverbial boot they need.

      Stuff have been extremely complicit- and encouraging- of beneficiary bashing which of course reached it’s zenith under the last regieme. By republishing the Natz press releases verbatim with no proper journalism to check the validity, then by opening the comments for the inevitably vile to be spewed. If they let what they did be published I hate to think what they rejected… A lot of what went though met the criteria for breaches of the Human Rights Act. So nice to see they won’t be opening comments for articles related to beneficiaries anymore, but proof in pudding and all that.
      As I said in an OM post a few days ago, this is hate speech and words can kill.

      Even our resident tabloid had the decency to quit with the comments years ago. If these coordinated (and probably paid) haters can’t handle the fact they’ve lost a large platform, tough shit.

    • Sacha 1.2
      27 March 2019 at 9:59 am

      “drawing the boundary in a different place.”
      Cool, let’s have more fluid boundaries. Fixed boundaries are boring.

      It is possible to reset fixed boundaries every now and then. That does not make them ‘fluid’. It is how organisations and organisms adapt to environmental change.

    • One Two 1.3
      27 March 2019 at 5:39 pm

      There’s “a whole lot of new rules designed to get rid of the assholes.

      A wide range of article topics – like 1080, vaccinations and the disputed region of Kashmir –

      just won’t have the comments open anymore

      And there it is…articles can be authored…and go unchallenged and unchecked…

      A preordained list of subjects…where will the subject matter boundaries be…will a list be made public…

      This is what folks asked for…

      • Dennis Frank 1.3.1
        27 March 2019 at 5:58 pm

        If I were a media owner, I’d be looking at it from a cost perspective. Do I want to pay employees to spend all day moderating comments?

        Being Green, I also see it from an ecosystem perspective. Toxic commentators are like the worst weeds: those that grow fast & often. One must be a busy gardener to extract them.

  2. A 2
    27 March 2019 at 7:40 am

    They are rather careful not to mention the forced organ donations. Might have decided diplomacy best.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111544569/muslim-group-wants-2-million-donation-to-be-returned-to-china

    • greywarshark 2.1
      27 March 2019 at 9:46 am

      And it would b good if it could be spent on Muslim support and positive projects there. It would be needed help, not wasted.

      • Peter Christchurch NZ 2.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 11:16 am

        Greywarshark – yes it would, but the Chinese government simply would not allow that. The Uighurs are seen as a threat to the communist party, and effectively isolated from the wider Chinese Empire.

    • Peter Christchurch NZ 2.2
      27 March 2019 at 11:13 am

      I think they are more concerned with the forced imprisonment and reeducation of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, which our government is so silent on.

      Forced organ donations are across the board in China, not a specifically Muslim thing.

      • A 2.2.1
        27 March 2019 at 11:29 am

        They are predominantly taken from Uighurs + practitioners of Falong Gong.

        • Peter Christchurch NZ 2.2.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 11:44 am

          No doubt.

          Falun Gong pose a very real threat to the government of China, as they are openly anti China in their publications. The communist government can not and will not tolerate any organised group, regardless of their views. Says just how insecure they are.

          I think the Chinese Empire will go the way of the USSR, and break apart. Nei Mongolia. Sichuan. Xinjiang. Xizhang. Take those away and China will be a rump of its current size. Will happen without a doubt.

          • Tony Veitch [not etc.] 2.2.1.1.1
            27 March 2019 at 3:28 pm

            And it can’t happen soon enough.

            Tibetans, Mongolians and Uyghurs all deserve their own independent states (though no doubt the Mongolians of Inner Mongolia would join Mongolia).

            Maybe even the Cantonese speaking Han would form a new country.

  4. reason 4
    27 March 2019 at 7:42 am

    Censorship usa style …. supporting the peacful BDS movement …. Or mention the HUGE influence the AIPAC israel lobby has on usa policy …. then your either breaking the law ……or your supporting anti semitisim , under the new ( and perverted) definition of it

    • Muttonbird 4.1
      27 March 2019 at 8:52 am

      I was reading the wiki page of Maajid Nawaz the other day after both David Farrar and Bryce Edwards had linked to an article of his post Christchurch (and if you want an idea of Edwards’ political leanings these days then there it is).

      The wiki page had a featured quote:

      It’s not Islamophobic to scrutinise Islam just as it’s not Christianophobic to scrutinise Christianity.

      Maajid Nawaz The Big Questions (BBC show)

      I wondered if his supposition would hold for Judaism?

      Probably not.

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    27 March 2019 at 7:48 am

    And while we’re on the subject of lateral thinking, why not apply it to the Waiho Bridge? Instead of spending all that money replacing it every time climate change washes it away, just put a big hinge on the side of the damn thing!

    Then either incorporate auto-opening with red lights to stop traffic every time the river gets high enough, or a trigger-release that gets activated when the river almost reaches the road. After the flood, get a truck and chain to pull it closed again.

    • Wayne 5.1
      27 March 2019 at 7:59 am

      If the bridge has been washed away many times before, it won’t be due to climate change, it will be as a result of south Westland getting horrendous floods which it has done just about forever.

      They anticipate this by building a bailey bridge (basically a short term military bridge used when existing bridges have been blown up).

      They could actually build a decent bridge, which could be future proofed against climate change. Probably would cost $30 million or so, but in the long run would seem better than a rickety old bailey bridge.

      • AB 5.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 8:09 am

        Was amused to hear the Westland mayor saying it was unusual for a “100 year event” on the Ciast to be so geographically widespread.
        He didn’t sound older than about 55.

      • aj 5.1.2
        27 March 2019 at 8:33 am

        They need a bridge which spans the entire river, and at least 50 metres of the bank, in one leap. No piles in the shifting and unstable bed to get undermined.

      • Anne 5.1.3
        27 March 2019 at 9:34 am

        … it won’t be due to climate change, it will be as a result of south Westland getting horrendous floods which it has done just about forever.

        Yes, but it probably started out to be a one in 20 year flood, then it dropped to a one in 10 year flood and so on… now its happening frequently enough due to CC that it has weakened the bridge’s structure and the stability of the river bed.

      • cleangreen 5.1.4
        27 March 2019 at 11:24 am

        Wayne Mapp = climate change denier.

    • Ad 5.2
      27 March 2019 at 8:00 am

      Everyone’s an engineer.

      They tried a cool neo-Bascule luft design in Whangarei. They forgot heat expansion so it stuck.

      • solkta 5.2.1
        27 March 2019 at 8:24 am

        It is working OK now though as they have shaved a little off it. That bridge works of course because the hinged bit is only wide enough to let a boat through. The Waiho Bridge is obviously too long for this to work. There is also hugely more water going under it.

    • Robert Guyton 5.3
      27 March 2019 at 8:52 am

      Punt.

    • vto 5.4
      27 March 2019 at 8:59 am

      There is a HUGE movement of gravel washing down the Waiho and raising the riverbed. Only a handful of years ago that Waiho bridge was raised about 3m or so due to the riverbed lifting to the underside of the bridge. In that handful of years the riverbed has lifted again.

      This is a common occurence with all bridges in NZ. They constrain the river being bridged, which results in the gravel building up and up and up as it cannot spill out the side. It happens everywhere, but is more noticeable on the coast due to the extent of rainfall and one of the world’s highest mountain erosion rates. These rivers need digging out frequently.

      The Waiho in particular has this HUGE gravel bulge coming down the river (due to glacier retreat). It has many years to go yet. Franz is in trouble. Everyone knows it. That is why that bridge has been a bailey-type bridge – easier to repair/replace every few decades.

      Building a more permanent bridge would require more work to each end than actually building the bridge, such is the geography of the site.

      The other point – much of NZ’s roading infrastrcture was built around 50-70 years ago. It is at the end-of-life point, in two main ways. One, all the roads were cut into hillsides and they are now eroding from above to an unpreventable level (e.g. Manawatu Gorge). Two, the constrained rivers are full to bursting, and are bursting.

      It’s a biggie thing

      • RedLogix 5.4.1
        27 March 2019 at 9:06 am

        Thank you, I was busy typing out a similar response but far less informed. Temporary bridges aren’t all bad, they have speed and weight limits and are a bit inconvenient, but from an engineering perspective make a great deal of sense in this sort of highly unstable environment.

        • JC 5.4.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 12:53 pm

          And then of course there’s the Alpine Fault, (running through the township of Franz Joseph), that is due to go any day now ….

          The Alpine Fault is one of the world’s major plate boundaries and New Zealand’s most hazardous earthquake-generating fault. It runs for 650 kilometres along the spine of New Zealand’s South Island and we know that it ruptures on average every 300 years, producing an earthquake of about magnitude 8.

          The last time the Alpine Fault went was in 1717, when it shunted land horizontally by eight metres and uplifted the mountains a couple of metres.

          Would need to be very well hinged! (As opposed to unhinged …)

          http://theconversation.com/new-zealands-alpine-fault-reveals-extreme-underground-heat-and-fluid-pressure-77868

      • cleangreen 5.4.2
        27 March 2019 at 11:36 am

        vto; yes

        NZ roads were never designed to carry 60 tonne trucks either.

        *As they built the roads and the under base to carry a laden weight of only 20 tonnes or less,- then, as vehicles back then trucks were an average of 9 tonnes and rail carried 90% of our freight.

        *But now that whole picture has reversed.

        * Now 60+ tonne trucks are now 8 times heavier and carry 90% of our freight.

        * Rail only carries 6% of our freight.

        So vto; – common sense says “something had to give”.

        Our problems are that the road transport industry is far to powerful and has far to much control and heavy influence over our politicians today and rail needs to now take at least half the freight.

        Unless the government does change this, – this problem we will never fix the problem.

  6. reason 6
    27 March 2019 at 7:52 am

    Two good women standing out … and standing up to …. the garbage enviromen and reporting …surrounding usa politic s.

    And the comments directed towards Ilhan Omar on her twitter feed …. whaleoil / kiwi blog sickness does not even begin to describe it.

    All the little Masa s commenting against her are sick …. in the worlds master nation

    I’m surprised Mark Rubio has not threatened to Lynch her … as he sometimes tweets such stuff …. as a warning to those not doing what the Masa says

    • Bewildered 6.1
      27 March 2019 at 2:36 pm

      Isn’t she a racist anti Semite publicly and privately ? Very nice smile though

      • reason 6.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 3:08 pm

        Not according to Jewish people who are not affiliated to Aipac or extreme zionisim Bewildered … these honest people think the false anti semite smear …. like you just dishonestly used ….. are the real threat to Israel …. and the rise of real anti Semitic feelings worldwide .

        Your Blatant nasty dishonesty is ugly …. it’s so obvious ….and reflects very poorly upon honest Jewish people …. who would never spread your lies …. Bewildered.

        Your a disgrace …. tainting others with your filth

        But back to the good people …. like this Jewish man …. a brother to those seeking justice and truth

        • reason 6.1.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 3:16 pm

          Regarding the unlawful theft of the Golan heights …,. this honest sister shows up the gangster ethos … in the Trump and Netanyahu crime partnership

      • Gabby 6.1.2
        27 March 2019 at 5:38 pm

        In the sense that you’re a racist alcoholic diaper wearing masochist beewee or in a different sense? Very quizzical befuddled gape though.

    • reason 6.2
      27 March 2019 at 3:29 pm

      She manages to keep her sense of humor …. when speaking to the worst of people …. Are you as good looking as Eliots Abrams Bewildered ?

      As in …….. Do your looks match your personality ….. does your smile scare children ? 🙂

  7. dv 7
    27 March 2019 at 7:56 am

    From a few week ago.
    West Coast Regional Council wants proof of human-caused climate change before supporting Zero Carbon Bill

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/110223334/west-coast-regional-council-wants-proof-of-humancaused-climate-change-before-supporting-zero-carbon-bill

    Today
    State of emergency as massive deluge hits West Coast, with more to come

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111533664/heavy-rain-moving-up-nz-from-the-south-in-significant-weather-event-live-coverage

    • greywarshark 7.1
      27 March 2019 at 9:31 am

      Previously Stuart Nash was against tighter gun controls. Today he has revised his opinion. It’s a pity that people in national or local government are governing by opinion which is limited by their own ignorance and lack of desire to obtain and understand the facts of the situation.

    • Anne 7.2
      27 March 2019 at 9:41 am

      Thanks for the reminder dv.

      I hope the locals have more sense next local body elections to vote out the neanderthals running their council.

    • marty mars 7.3
      27 March 2019 at 10:59 am

      Teachable moment. Took my son and his friend to school today both aged 11. Raining here. They bought up climate change and we discussed increased energy and wilder extremes of weather. Had just helped homework with the boy around the difference between heat and temperature. They said that we (olders) weren’t doing enough and leaving them to deal with it. I said yep that is happening and we must continue to do all we can do including creating sustainability and resilience and community. I learnt so much from those young boys.

  8. CHCoff 8
    27 March 2019 at 7:59 am

    Given recent times, the chances of mistaken identities with our NZ PM must be next to nil, as Jacinda goes to embark on a whirlwind international diplomacy trip to meet the China heads of state.

    Being able to do such whirlwind foreign engagements though, even amidst the ongoing backdrop of the past week or so, then beyond trade numbers and volumes, it would surely be very valuable to NZ if culturally more of an eye starts to be kept out for any headline get togethers as involves Ivanka Trump to gender equality promotions with leadership/corporate decision making structures.

    Ivanka is very well known around the world in different places, including China, and there are far worse ideas of reference for a place in often chaotic world traffic than a layperson stickability like Ivanka, Jacinda, Gender Equality, New Zealand, to be understood with.

  9. Ad 9
    27 March 2019 at 8:15 am

    As I predicted a couple of months ago, Pentagon gets Trump’s wall started by shifting $1b of internal funds, unilaterally. Armed Forces Committee may complain, but DoD is its own kingdom with plenty of discretion.

    Trump will now go to the electorate with tax reform, corruption scandals behind him, and wall started.

    Dems are such a long way from a single candidate that they may simply run out of time to take Trump out.

    • RedLogix 9.1
      27 March 2019 at 8:28 am

      It’s a point well made and worth repeating; our political landscape seems as much shaped by sullen incompetence on the left as it is by sly malfeasance on the right.

      • greywarshark 9.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 9:55 am

        That seems a quotable quote RedLogix. And if that is not acceptable grammar to anyone, I note that stuff have included banning comments that protest against grammatical errors in its latest tranche of changes. It is good though if the piece is readable. I complain at large bricks without paras. Good thinking through things can be bypassed if its too dense, or having difficulty to get through someone’s brain that is too dense!

    • Andre 9.2
      27 March 2019 at 9:04 am

      Gentlemen, start your lawsuits.

    • adam 9.4
      27 March 2019 at 3:23 pm

      ROFL, so the whole Russian collusion conspiracy theory has just fallen over, and handed trump the sympathy card.

      Could people play it any worse – oh wait this is the centre left were talking about so, yeah this could get way worse…

      trump is going to walk in, becasue the centre left lost its mind and spent two years down the rabbit hole chasing a conspiracy theory.

      An apology for the muppets who pushed the Russian Collusion conspiracy theory would be nice. Or at least an apology for the name calling of ‘putin puppets’ would be a good place to start.

      AT least one thing to like about the centre left, when it comes to going crazy, at least you do it on a grand scale.

      • One Two 9.4.1
        27 March 2019 at 5:46 pm

        And right on cue…

        Trump ‘gifts Golan’…having already gifted Jerusalem…

        Yeah…but…Russian interference…

  10. corodale 10
    27 March 2019 at 8:17 am

    “Jews outraged after mosque leader blames Mossad for Christchurch …
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/…/jews-outraged-after-mosque-leader-blames-mossad-for-…”
    Link hacked and redirected, so search for yourself (I believe Yippy.com is an option to avoid the Google engine)

    So this main actor goes into the Mosque. And passage-way-extra-guy1 is on the floor with bare feet. The main actor goes out, comes back in, and now the passage-way-extra-guy1 is still in the same place but now wearing socks, blue socks! I shit you not, it has been filmed in two takes! This is the level of BS in the video, super-fake and a very strange situation we find ourselves in. No surprise that Islamic leaders in NZ calling it how it looks.

    [No more disrespectful comments, please. The next false flag fantasy sees you removed from the site. TRP]

    • corodale 10.1
      27 March 2019 at 8:51 am

      Ahmed Bhamji, chairman of the Mt Roskill Masjid E Umar, gave a speech questioning where the gunman got his funding from. He said he suspected it came from “Mossad” and “Zionist business”.

      • left_forward 10.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 9:41 am

        Why are you repeating this shit here?

        • corodale 10.1.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 10:29 am

          When links get broken (like the link to the quote I give above), then I shout it louder. I would truly like to understand where you folk are coming from. Why should we censor all views other than the lone-wolf narrative? Do folk here believe that it is in the interests of national security? Is it fear? I read quotes from our leaders like Marama D calling for the truth. To quote James S, “when the facts change, we change our mind”. How do we avoid the polarisation of opinion? By making sure there is only one opinion? I respect that our leaders’ hands’ are politically tied, but that means that it’s up to us, farmers and unionist, to say the uncomfortable truths. If not us, now? Then who, and when? Perhaps I’m too direct. If so, then please, demonstrate to me the more graceful way. But to simply put on a head scarf and bury the truth, this is a sad defeat for us all.

          In the setting of the bigger picture, as financial melt-down warms, with the US ready for civil war, Israel given the green light for expansion… sorry for the fear porn, but surely we would want to keep our local communities informed, if these impulses where to act upon our shores. The truth is safe if you remain empathetic with it. I thought the audience here was political. If I can’t share the truth here, then where? Well I have said my piece, and will leave you folk in peace now. Much to do on farm.

          Life, Light and Love

          • left_forward 10.1.1.1.1
            27 March 2019 at 3:45 pm

            Yeah you are far from understanding anything here when you ask:

            Why should we censor all views other than the lone-wolf narrative? Do folk here believe that it is in the interests of national security? Is it fear?

            Here you will find the opposite – that views are broadly tolerated other than the ‘hate speech’ of your so-called lone-wolf narrative and other false-flag shit. This is where a line gets drawn – some don’t like it – but I entirely agree with such censorship.

            Fear Porn, as you call it, seems to be at the heart of your rants.

    • corodale 10.2
      27 March 2019 at 9:08 am

      Me disrespectful? How about NZ Police Commissioner Bush, is he being respectful by turning aspects of this investigation over to the FBI? (sorry my computer is too hacked to cut-n-paste at this minute, I’ll paraphrase his statement): “We are getting help from the FBI to paint a better picture of the (singular) attacker.” Is he turning it over to the FBI? Are NZ police not up to the job? Is he narrowing the focus down to one man? Sorry, I’m agreeing with mosque leader Ahmed Bhamji, chairman of the Mt Roskill Masjid E Umar. Smells like rat to me too.

      • marty mars 10.2.1
        27 March 2019 at 9:24 am

        Go away you nasty piece of work.

        • solkta 10.2.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 9:33 am

          + 1

          You said that far too nicely marty.

        • greywarshark 10.2.1.2
          27 March 2019 at 10:13 am

          But there’s some facts in Corodales comments. They aren’t all about his dumb opinions.

          (Why did you put that Corodale? About socks and all that? Get some respect for the gravity of this matter. This is not a time for interesting discussion like about something minor that you saw on tv or a film!)

          Facts as reported correctly one expects:
          * The Mt Roskill leader of the local church was quoted as mentioning Mossad etc. mosque leader Ahmed Bhamji, chairman of the Mt Roskill Masjid E Umar.
          ** Jews have been quoted as being outraged about Mossad, their spy organisation, being referred to in a suspicious way by the Mt Roskill mosque chairman.
          *** Commissioner Bush has mentioned that the FBI are here and the Australian Federal police and that they are in touch withother jurisdictions around the world. Video update 10 Can’t see any date (on-line seems chary about dates). e&oe
          https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=438111816929508

          • greywarshark 10.2.1.2.1
            27 March 2019 at 10:26 am

            And the other quote about Mt Roskill was on this link earlier supplied from which I copied. And put again.
            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/jews-outraged-after-mosque-leader-blames-mossad-for-christchurch-attack.html

          • corodale 10.2.1.2.2
            27 March 2019 at 10:39 am

            [Rambling rant removed. Banned till 1st May. Repeat this behaviour when you return and the ban will be significantly longer. TRP]

          • cleangreen 10.2.1.2.3
            27 March 2019 at 11:51 am

            Yes greywarshark

            There is always two sides to every story, and some don’t want to accept this and just want to rubbish others and are not helping anything doing that.

            Perhaps solka and marty need to read this. latest 19th March 2019 study;
            ” IPCC is underselling climate change”

            https://phys.org/news/2019-03-ipcc-underselling-climate.html

            Study shows IPCC is underselling climate change
            March 19, 2019, University of Adelaide

            Credit: CC0 Public Domain
            A new study has revealed that the language used by the global climate change watchdog, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), is overly conservative – and therefore the threats are much greater than the Panel’s reports suggest.
            Published in the journal BioScience, the team of scientists from the University of Adelaide, Flinders University, the University of Bristol (UK), and the Spanish National Research Council has analysed the language used in the IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report (from 2014).
            “We found that the main message from the reports—that our society is in climate emergency—is lost by overstatement of uncertainty and gets confused among the gigabytes of information,” says lead author Dr. Salvador Herrando-Pérez, from the University of Adelaide’s Environment Institute and Australian Centre for Ancient DNA.
            “The IPCC supports the overwhelming scientific consensus about human impact on climate change, so we would expect the reports’ vocabulary to be dominated by greater certainty on the state of climate science—but this is not the case.”

            • greywarshark 10.2.1.2.3.1
              27 March 2019 at 12:24 pm

              Clearing the mind of some of the nitty gritty to let the major matters emerge. That’s what is so important I think cleangreen. (Don’t read any further if you are inclined to depression – someone pointing out things clearly you sort of know is too much to take on sometimes. Did you have to say that? is the angry thought.)

              Those points you put up are major, and so true about not getting the clear message we need to take on board. But often it’s more than I can cope with, and i am ahead of others. The young ones are still trying to make their lives and constantly be flexible, adapting to the new technology, demands, etc. If older people only think of pleasure, going on holidays, meeting at cafes for meals and chat, keeping up with the children and grand-children, limited input to keep up with society, who is actually confronting the problems? Big nasty ones too. That is the situation.

              And that is why I won’t get tv again, Sky can keep ringing and I am polite most of the time to the worker at the end of the line. But I haven’t time. I am in a minority amongst people I meet in the everyday world who pay attention to the future, who regards with cynicism the pretty speeches of politicians and the ones about how love will keep us together. If it was so easy it would have been done decades ago. Love is essential, and it will enable us to decide what is the best thing to do for our families, our neighbourhood and what we are going to help with, and how to retire from the world when it becomes essential to do so. We might decide it is better to train as medical personnel and go into the war-torn areas there and help the brave and moral people attempting to act nobly and practically for instance. We are only costing the country money to keep us alive and active and doing our own thing in the midst of growing disaster. The eye of the storm we are living in at present.

              Knowing the coldness and self-absorption of the better-off, which is the same all the way up to the leaders and manipualtors to whom money is no barrier, I can’t have hope that they will do anything to keep things going that is not expedient for them. Trying to improve anything back to the way it was is tremendously difficult because the people in power want to lower conditions down to necessities for the people, and the necessities are in their sights also. Our right to be able to afford our own homes, or even have decent rental ones is an example.

              I hope that we can find true-hearted people to work with and do what we can to avoid the worst situations. But any slip-slide away to cults and
              glamorous ideas and leave you in the lurch when you try to do anything, when you try to get a practical working group going that will fix on a system that is good in theory, and prove it in practice and change to meet changing needs and times, and not cling to historical methods.
              The feedback practice on Stuff is being changed to meet criteria of the well-run ethical business they want to be Our political systems for instance shouldn’t be set in stone. Each plan is a compromise and should have clear objectives to be proud of, and then when not achieving them some change is acceptable, say each year.

      • Rosemary McDonald 10.2.2
        27 March 2019 at 9:44 am

        corodale. Please don’t ” quote” without linking to the source. It undermines credibility.

        • corodale 10.2.2.1
          27 March 2019 at 10:46 am

          “Bush said FBI agents have traveled to New Zealand to help with the investigation.” https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-zealand-holds-first-funerals-for-mosque-shooting-victims

          (sorry my computer was hanging, and I couldn’t cut-n-paste, I’ll lost my previous link)

          • Rosemary McDonald 10.2.2.1.1
            27 March 2019 at 5:22 pm

            corodale. Thanks for the link…I’m a little OCD about such things.

            And bugger me, there it is….Bush saying how the FBI are over here helping out with the investigation. I thought I was keeping up but that wee tidbit had escaped me.

            All I can say is, thank heavens for The FBI…..they have a sterling reputation for sorting shit out. /sarc 😉

      • Anne 10.2.3
        27 March 2019 at 9:45 am

        You’re mad corodale.

        • cleangreen 10.2.3.1
          27 March 2019 at 11:56 am

          Anne Nice please be nice not rude here,

          It hurts and offends people; – as we are supposed to be living in a freedom of civil expression here.

          Corridale said sorry; – so what do you want?

          • Anne 10.2.3.1.1
            27 March 2019 at 12:25 pm

            cleangreen look at the times. I posted mine in answer to his earlier mad rants. Since when there has been a plethora of replies to later comments.

            I see he has now been banned until 1st May.

            Check the facts before bursting into print eh?

            • greywarshark 10.2.3.1.1.1
              27 March 2019 at 12:57 pm

              We certainly have to be careful. There is a very snappy approach showing up on here at present. The shock has made us all tense and our reactions can be triggered. I was annoyed with someone starting a discussion referring to other tragedies and wondering if this was worse, rating it on a scale I felt which bothered me. That was picking up on our PM saying that the tragedy was unprecedented in NZ.

              • Anne …
                27 March 2019 at 1:50 pm

                I agree grey. We’re going through the “angry” phase at present and I currently have a low tolerance level for bullshit and crank statements. This is in part because of personal historical experiences and the fact the people making them are flying in the face of present reality.

                I will endeavour to curb my reactions to them. 🙂

  11. Dennis Frank 11
    27 March 2019 at 8:21 am

    But a fence is not a wall, guys, what part of following instructions do you just not get?? I foresee tv pictures of hordes of locals jumping up & down in unison chanting “We Wanna Wall! We Wanna Wall!”

    “The Pentagon has authorised army engineers to begin construction of additional fencing on the US-Mexico border, diverting an initial $1bn after President Donald Trump declared a national emergency to bypass Congress on the matter. The army would begin planning and building 57 miles of 18-foot-high fencing in Yuma, Arizona, and El Paso, Texas, according to a statement by acting defence secretary Patrick Shanahan.” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-border-wall-mexico-funding-pentagon-security-congress-vote-a8839811.html

    • corodale 11.1
      27 March 2019 at 8:55 am

      Will engineers factor in the curvature of the earth, or is it presumed to be flat?

      • Robert Guyton 11.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 9:28 am

        “Presumed”? By engineers?

      • greywarshark 11.1.2
        27 March 2019 at 9:39 am

        corodale can you understand that huge amount of unknown information that affects anybody’s ability to make a reasoned decision? And how much time is wasted that could be spent on learning the facts, but is wasted in engaging with dunderheads like you and similar smart-arses.

        This is an expression of the thinking about information and its complexity.There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

        I suggest you don’t pretend ignorance about known things, otherwise you will never catch up with the quest for knowledge that others are on.

      • vto 11.1.3
        27 March 2019 at 9:47 am

        not an either or question

        it is both flat and curved

        can you get your head around such?

    • greywarshark 11.2
      27 March 2019 at 1:02 pm

      I think Dennis at 11, was in reply to 9 about the wall from joe90. He has put up a copy of the letter refusing Defence from taking $1 billion from its booty to help Trumpy and his wall. It could actually be a major tourist attraction for Mexico, and a place where artists hang out decorating it and fighting over where Banksy- like people can keep their art for posterity. The Berlin Wall was covered in graffiti.

      • Dennis Frank 11.2.1
        27 March 2019 at 2:01 pm

        Simultaneous writing actually. I was expecting to be first with the news but got beaten by a few minutes, so didn’t know the other report was in the pipeline – fortunately my quote provided more detail, so supplementing the other.

        I find the fence/wall thing weird, inasmuch as the fence has been there awhile apparently – in some locations, even if not continuous. But we never got an explanation from Trump re Mexico funding so he’s just ad hoc.

  12. marty mars 12
    27 March 2019 at 9:31 am

    Good one. Dont tolerate hate speech. We are changing our country slowly but surely.

    “A man lost his job after making comments about Muslims following the Christchurch terror attack.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12216465

    • Psycho Milt 12.1
      27 March 2019 at 1:09 pm

      We are changing our country slowly but surely.

      Into one where you can lose your job for saying something your boss doesn’t like. Hooray!

      • Formerly Ross 12.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 1:20 pm

        PM

        I’m not sure why you’d be applauding that. Right leaning employer sacks employee making left wing comment might attract some consternation, and rightly so. Is that what you’re suggesting?

        • Psycho Milt 12.1.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 1:30 pm

          “Hooray!” probably needed a /sarc tag after it. This is actually a horrifying development, and I hope the current government is moving to give people working for temp agencies greater protection against this kind of thing. If the guy had been directly employed by Placemakers it would have been much harder to dismiss him (which is one of the reasons employers use temp agencies – the workers have fewer rights).

          • Formerly Ross 12.1.1.1.1
            27 March 2019 at 1:36 pm

            Yep thought it was sarcasm. More than 20,000 workers have been sacked in the last year who were on 90 day trials. Making political comments I suspect is one “justification” used by employers.

            http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1903/S00039/tens-of-thousands-of-kiwi-workers-sacked.htm

          • marty mars 12.1.1.1.2
            27 March 2019 at 1:42 pm

            I spose he could just not say hate speech – too hard?

            • Psycho Milt 12.1.1.1.2.1
              27 March 2019 at 1:59 pm

              He could just not say things that marty mars retrospectively and without hearing them declares to be hate speech? Yes, that is too hard. Effectively, your argument is “He could just not say things.”

              • Higherstandard …
                27 March 2019 at 2:05 pm

                Ball gags for all employees…the idea has merit

              • marty mars …
                27 March 2019 at 2:12 pm

                Oh dear.

                something to consider – now days indigenous peoples often focus on decolonising the mind. Basically as colonization occured it took from indigenous peoples and replaced with the unshakable belief that all euro aspects are the peak and naturally are the best way. Politics, social structure, law and ways of thinking about law, everything. Decolonising the mind is realizing the truth that there is no white supremacy in ANYTHING including how to think, react, what’s important and what isn’t.

                So your logic and approach is not mine. Get used to it.

                • RedLogix …
                  27 March 2019 at 2:29 pm

                  Given you have openly endorsed punishing people who say things you don’t like, I should point out that this is a system us toxic white people (and others) have tried out at various times in the past century or so, and demonstrated to be a catastrophically bad idea.

                  On the other hand you may have better luck with it.

                  • marty mars …
                    27 March 2019 at 2:30 pm

                    Cool good to know.

                    and your first sentence is not correct. I applaud people being protected against white supremacist hate speech and religious hate speech. I think it hurts people and is sick anytime but especially now. Pity you don’t.

                    • RedLogix …
                      27 March 2019 at 2:58 pm

                      I stand on my track record here going back over a decade as being implacably opposed to religious zealots and fundamentalists of any kind. At the same time I’ve made it clear I am not an atheist, I have a long standing relationship with religion and I’ve spoken in respectful terms whenever the topic arose.

                      Indeed I’ve taken more than some flack for this over the years from people who hold all religions in contempt; ‘sky fairies’ and the like.

                      Long before it became the issue it has been this past 10 days.

                  • Poission …
                    27 March 2019 at 2:36 pm

                    Well the romans outlawed greek practitioners of rhetoric,then again they also outlawed athletics as the Greeks performed this naked in public,but allowed violent spectator sports (a bit like television programming)

                    Alexander Pope summed up the problems on discourse in his Epistle to man.

                    But errs not Nature from this gracious end,
                    From burning suns when livid deaths descend,
                    When earthquakes swallow, or when tempests sweep
                    Towns to one grave, whole nations to the deep?
                    “No, (’tis replied) the first Almighty Cause
                    Acts not by partial, but by gen’ral laws;
                    Th’ exceptions few; some change since all began:
                    And what created perfect?”—Why then man?
                    If the great end be human happiness,
                    Then Nature deviates; and can man do less?
                    As much that end a constant course requires
                    Of show’rs and sunshine, as of man’s desires;
                    As much eternal springs and cloudless skies,
                    As men for ever temp’rate, calm, and wise.
                    If plagues or earthquakes break not Heav’n’s design,
                    Why then a Borgia, or a Catiline?
                    Who knows but he, whose hand the lightning forms,
                    Who heaves old ocean, and who wings the storms,
                    Pours fierce ambition in a Cæsar’s mind,
                    Or turns young Ammon loose to scourge mankind?
                    From pride, from pride, our very reas’ning springs;
                    Account for moral, as for nat’ral things:
                    Why charge we Heav’n in those, in these acquit?
                    In both, to reason right is to submit.

                    Better for us, perhaps, it might appear,
                    Were there all harmony, all virtue here;
                    That never air or ocean felt the wind;
                    That never passion discompos’d the mind.
                    But ALL subsists by elemental strife;
                    And passions are the elements of life.
                    The gen’ral order, since the whole began,
                    Is kept in nature, and is kept in man.

                    Martians are boring.

                • Bewildered …
                  27 March 2019 at 2:44 pm

                  There is only one logic Marty to argue otherwise is illogical Also there is a reason the world flock to western countries, democracies and ideals and not the other way round Hint , it’s not about colour

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    27 March 2019 at 2:54 pm

                    …there is a reason the world flock to western countries…

                    There was a reason western countries flocked to the world over the last 500 years, too. Indigenous people in many countries have some views on that. So, maybe not the best argument to offer to one of them (which I believe marty mars is)?

                  • WeTheBleeple …
                    27 March 2019 at 5:02 pm

                    “Also there is a reason the world flock to western countries”

                    You mean Maori, Islander, Aboriginal and Amerindian countries.

                    But carry on in your delusion you are the greatest.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  27 March 2019 at 2:49 pm

                  Reason isn’t “White,” it just is. If you mistake rational argument for a Pākehā cultural affectation and “decolonise” it from your mind, your ability to argue for your views will be damaged, not improved.

                  • marty mars …
                    27 March 2019 at 3:17 pm

                    Reason – you assess information and reach conclusions. You’re not a machine – only some information is assessed – what info and why those ones? You reach conclusions based on past experience, knowledge etc. Its all subjective. If you live in society and every day the variables considered important are reinforced and others not which ones become natural? White isn’t a colour to me but a set of privileges attached to groups. Some have more, some less.

                    • RedLogix …
                      27 March 2019 at 3:48 pm

                      True, there are an infinite number of ways we assess information and one of the core ideas the radical left has embraced is that none of them are privileged above the other; they’re all equally valid.

                      I presume then you’d have no quibble with me ‘decolonising’ my modern western mind and embracing my Viking heritage:

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings

                      Who do you think would win a waka full of Maori toa, or a longboat of Vikings? 🙂

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      27 March 2019 at 3:57 pm

                      You reach conclusions based on past experience, knowledge etc. Its all subjective.

                      Its even worse than that. We reach conclusions based on personal prejudices, emotions we’re feeling, whatever hormone happens to be getting the most traction at the time, things we believe are true but aren’t – there’s a big list.

                      That’s why reason is so important. What are the rational arguments for the conclusions I’ve reached? If I can’t come up with any, or I do but they’re a collection of logical fallacies and other people tear them to shreds in front of me, it’s time to figure out what’s really led me to those conclusions.

                    • marty mars …
                      27 March 2019 at 3:58 pm

                      @ red

                      Yeah good you’re being a smartarse cos it shows you’re worried and uncertain. That’s the point really.

                    • marty mars …
                      27 March 2019 at 4:05 pm

                      @pm

                      “and other people tear them to shreds in front of me,”

                      There are other ways of doing it.

                    • RedLogix …
                      27 March 2019 at 4:22 pm

                      @ marty

                      Yet when I speak seriously to the notion of a global civilisation, one that unites the best aspects of all cultures, one that expands our moral and emotional horizons to embrace the entire human race … as I have done many times … you go all silent on me.

                    • marty mars …
                      27 March 2019 at 4:32 pm

                      @ red – I oppose merging. I like uniqueness and variety.

                    • RedLogix …
                      27 March 2019 at 4:51 pm

                      In the global civilisation I have in mind, us white people would compose just 1 billion of the 7 or more billion humans. There is plenty of diversity to go around.

                      The members of your whanau are all unique and different people, yet together they are united as family. As with the citizens of a nation. We are all unique, diverse and individuals, while at the same time connected and merged at many different levels.

                      Unity does not imply uniformity; it means connection and the ability to work to a common purpose.

              • McFlock …
                27 March 2019 at 3:36 pm

                He said he knew as soon as the words came out of his mouth that he’d said the wrong thing.

                Maybe he should have thought first.

                But then a “qualified engineer” reduced to fruitpicking probably has other issues, too.

                But although I don’t have much sympathy for him, arbitrarily kicking him was wrong. There should have been a disciplinary meeting, and based on exactly what he said (not his description of what he said) appropriate disciplinary action should have been taken.

            • Gabby 12.1.1.1.2.2
              27 March 2019 at 5:30 pm

              Alleged hate speech mardymardy.

      • marty mars 12.1.2
        27 March 2019 at 1:22 pm

        Good you’re on board. It seemed like his co workers were a bit frightened and the boss listened to them and fair enough imo. Times change and they just did for this country.

        • Formerly Ross 12.1.2.1
          27 March 2019 at 1:26 pm

          Ok so you won’t complain if a worker gets sacked on day 89 of his 90 day trial for merely praising the PM…

        • Psycho Milt 12.1.2.2
          27 March 2019 at 1:33 pm

          Suppose his co-workers were “a bit frightened” because he spoke te reo Maōri or expressed support for tino rangatiratanga – still good if the boss listens to them and makes sure the troublemaker doesn’t get to “frighten” them again? Now that times have changed and it’s apparently OK to dismiss people for saying something you don’t like, an’ all that?

          • marty mars 12.1.2.2.1
            27 March 2019 at 1:51 pm

            You’re not good on context imo – nothing is happening in a vacuum is it. Your principles are constructed yet you hold them so tight. They appear fragile if they can’t take this stuff.

            • Psycho Milt 12.1.2.2.1.1
              27 March 2019 at 2:01 pm

              My principles are so far from fragile that I can cope with hearing unpopular opinions without wanting to get the holders of the opinions sacked. It would be good if yours were equally robust.

              • marty mars …
                27 March 2019 at 2:15 pm

                You’re dreaming mate – you spent days here moaning about a call to prayer for a God you dont believe in. Lol wake up and be honest at least with yourself.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  27 March 2019 at 2:35 pm

                  Gods you don’t believe in can kill you, as a lot of people have found out over the last few thousand years. They may kill you by proxy, via the people who do believe in them, but you end up just as dead. Don’t assume that gods you don’t believe in are trivial, because it’s not true.

                  • marty mars …
                    27 March 2019 at 2:45 pm

                    I’m aware of your views on Islam but feel free to spell them out for others who may not know.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      27 March 2019 at 2:57 pm

                      Islam’s merely the ugliest of them. I wrote “gods” plural for a reason – the Christian ones have probably clocked up a bigger body count than Allah over the centuries, especially when you take the Americas into account. There have been plenty of others.

  13. marty mars 13
    27 March 2019 at 9:47 am

    Influencers – this phenomenon is beyond me. This is a good article. Gives the vegan haters some good material and by jeeze they need it ha ha ha. Fishgate.

    “Not only was Mendoza promoting a restrictive diet that was making her sick, she was extolling dangerous practices, such as 25-day water fasts, to her millions of followers. And she is far from the only influencer promoting extreme eating. Jordan Peterson, a prominent psychologist, has been outspoken about his all-beef diet, claiming it cured his depression and his gum disease. (Unfortunately, it hasn’t cured his pseudo-intellectual prattling.)”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/26/the-furore-over-the-fish-eating-vegan-influencer-is-a-warning-to-us-all

    • RedLogix 13.1
      27 March 2019 at 10:15 am

      Fortunately Peterson also makes it clear it’s a diet he has found addresses specific issues his family have encountered over the years. Nowhere does he recommend or promote it as a generally good idea. Indeed whenever someone does ask him about, he says it’s a restrictive and onerous diet he doesn’t like much at all.

      Incidentally gum disease has been recently implicated in Alzheimers:

      https://www.newscientist.com/article/2191842-gum-disease-may-be-the-cause-of-alzheimers-heres-how-to-avoid-it/

      So maybe the author of this smear by association piece has it entirely backwards.

      • marty mars 13.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 10:25 am

        thanks for that – alzheimers eh – not good – I certainly wouldn’t wish that on him and i can’t imagine a journalist doing this connection thing you’ve bought up – it appears you’ve connected those dots all by yourself 🙂

      • Andre 13.1.2
        27 March 2019 at 10:30 am

        Yeah, look after your gums. Gum disease seems to *cause* all kinds of other maladies – heart disease, rheumatoid arthritis, pancreatic cancer …

        https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/gum-disease-and-the-connection-to-heart-disease

        • Sabine 13.1.2.1
          27 March 2019 at 11:25 am

          and because of this Dental care is cosmetic, not a health care. 🙂

          • cleangreen 13.1.2.1.1
            27 March 2019 at 12:11 pm

            Sabine,

            No!!

            ‘Dental care is not only cosmetic’- it is part of our whole health and well being.

            I got a clear message about this two years ago.

            In 2016 my teeth got damaged after a boating accident and this was around Xmas and dental care was not carried out until four months later due to ACC hangups, and by then infections had been set in causing blood poisoning that threatened my life and I spend two years after wards getting the teeth fixed with 6 root canals and seven restorations.

            Gum abbess infections and resulting blood poisoning from gum infections can destroy anyone’s health, mind and body,.

            Don’t let the teeth health be left out of healthcare funding here; – as many cannot afford to pay for dental care.

            • Gabby 13.1.2.1.1.1
              27 March 2019 at 12:44 pm

              Irony isn’t your bag is it cleany.

              • greywarshark …
                27 March 2019 at 1:05 pm

                It actually is sort of serious and just becoming known, so cleany felt he would give us the facts Gabby. Taking quite a few sentences to explain it which takes time and a desire to be helpful, just not pass judgment.

      • greywarshark 13.1.3
        27 March 2019 at 12:28 pm

        That’s good RL. Thanks. I can use that information.

  14. millsy 14
    27 March 2019 at 10:15 am

    Reposted from last night’s Daily Review..

    The rich schools oppose the plan to return education to being a public service for the greater good:

    http://www.communityschools.org/

    They want:

    To be able to charge loads of fees
    To be able to make parents buy devices they cannot afford
    To pander to internation students
    To kick out ‘dumb kids’ that make their schools look bad

    **TO RUN SCHOOLS AS A TRADEABLE BUSINESS COMMODITY AND NOT A PUBLIC SERVICE**

    To be honest, I trust civil servants to run schools than the red faced reactionary bourgeois hacks that control most boards of trustees, and have their own little networks.

    The Hubs are going to shine some light on all the corruption and nepotism that goes on in our education system, and some people dont like that.

    • greywarshark 14.1
      27 March 2019 at 12:42 pm

      millsy
      I noticed that the nice Maori woman keen and willing to be a good Board member didn’t get voted in to my local primary school with a catchment of mostly pakeha, and many professionals. Board members came from the public, but the accountant, businessman, the solicitor or solicitor’s wife were the vast majority
      ( could be both women). So having Boards chosen from the public giving the impression of reflecting the whole community is misleading.

      And the middle class are not really open to progressive ideas, they just want their kids to learn get good jobs and know how to be naice. Their standards are derisory, they will want religion and allow any obsessive to prate on; they will want sex education but on the end of a barge pole, or not discussed on a level of personal experience of the youngsters, and the dry facts miss the chance of putting to them that they could take time before experiencing it, be a bit wary of jumping in because others start at 13 or 14. Why not decide for yourself that you will try it out after 18? A suggestion not a sacred promise. There is so much conservatism and also limitation in subjects that the Boards can decide. What they themselves know can form a protective barrier around school subjects and ways, and they are reluctant to allow the other ideas in, or not till everyone else is accepting them.

    • Higherstandard 14.2
      27 March 2019 at 2:09 pm

      What has that link got to do with NZ ?

  15. mac1 15
    27 March 2019 at 10:32 am

    Two separate articles in today’s news on separate topics but they seem to me to point out a common error.

    When people try to excuse poor conduct, it does not help to excuse what they said by trying to explain it away by why they said it.

    The two events are the Marlborough Federated Farmers’ president, Philip Neal, whose excuse was that he was frustrated at proposed taxation on such as farmers when he slagged beneficiaries as ‘useless’.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/111537528/farmers-share-tax-reform-fears-but-dont-back-beneficiary-bashing

    The second is the excuse by the Australian One Nation’s party men who blamed alcohol for their talk about getting the American NRA to fund their party.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/111571472/one-nation-staffers-blame-booze-for-their-nra-boasting

    In both cases they spoke unwisely, through frustration or lips loosened by alcohol but what they said still stands. It’s what they said, it’s what they think, it’s what has escaped into the public arena. Excuses as to why they said it don’t retract what they actually said.

    • greywarshark 15.1
      27 March 2019 at 12:45 pm

      They thought it, they said it, it’s the truth outing under stress without the protective cover of equivocation.

  16. A 16
    27 March 2019 at 11:32 am

    This is the story that counters the story of how a woman on a flight to NZ was sexually assulted and nothing was done.

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/journalist-intervenes-after-creep-harasses-teen-seated-beside-him-on-plane/news-story/8fc72dfd7abbf1c4df10a59e673ef8b0

    “I went to get a flight attendant and informed her of what was going on. They checked other witness accounts and the head of the flight service (a woman) asked the man to move.

    “He resisted then started swearing at me and asked to talk to the boss and the head flight attendant said ‘I’m the boss, this is really serious and we could land the plane’.

    “He moved. The attendants checked in with the young woman and wrote up a report.”

    Airline staff later gave Ms Chiu and the other woman cards thanking them for stepping in and helping.

  17. greywarshark 17
    27 March 2019 at 11:32 am

    This book published in 2001 defines five lines of stress on the world and us. The summary sounds pretty right. Anyone read it?

    Five Holocausts by Derek J Wilson

    Paperback, 2001, 472pages, very good condition
    Reviews:
    Derek Wilson?s 10-year labour of love proposes that the world faces ruin through five intertwining apocalypses of human construction: militarism, human oppression, economic destitution, population explosion and environmental destruction.

    The five holocausts cannot be understood or dealt with in isolation. The problems are vast and indisputable; uncounted acres of taxpayer gold are thoroughly wasted on armaments, trillions of dollars spin round the world in unproductive speculation, people enslave each other given half a chance, rich nations use vast shares of the Earth?s resources and the environment is in accelerating decline.

    The point of a New Zealand-produced book on the subject ? given that none of the above registers in the average Kiwi?s day to day ? is that acting to stop it all is in everyone?s interests. (Alistair Bone Listener reviewer)

    This authoritative book gives a clear and thorough overview of the impending global crisis, connecting the constituent parts of the global predicament. Derek Wilson draws attention to many dynamic and hopeful initiatives that are growing in response to the overall challenge and makes an impassioned case for action by government, institutions and society generally.

    This is a book with a powerful challenge, packed with vital, thoroughly interesting information. (From the foreword by George Porter, founder and past President of the Pacific Institute of Resource Management, Aotearoa New Zealand)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=2197594
    Derek J. Wilson

    • Molly 17.1
      27 March 2019 at 1:14 pm

      Yes, I have. Bought a copy a few years ago and read it. Should go back and revisit it soon, just to see if it stands up.

      I ‘enjoyed’ the read, being a local publication and very straightforward about the crises we face, but recall thinking it is not for the faint-hearted.

      • greywarshark 17.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 1:33 pm

        Thanks for the warning Molly. Perhaps one should be like the Oz politicians, take on some whiskies, and then that weakens the effect of the ideas, for a while.

        • Molly 17.1.1.1
          27 March 2019 at 2:01 pm

          Don’t mean to put anyone off. Probably those who visit this website regularly will find it a good read. Just mean that recommending it to people who aren’t politically active or interested in current affairs might be problematic.

          I’ll have to dig it out after renovations and revisit it again. I know I was sufficiently interested enough to have a look for Derek Wilson to see if he was still alive and perhaps publishing or speaking.

  18. Bazza64 18
    27 March 2019 at 12:30 pm

    I see Whitcoulls have Jordan Peterson’s book back on their shelves. Must have decided it was a silly decision to remove it.

    • greywarshark 18.1
      27 March 2019 at 12:49 pm

      They counted 1 to 12 reasons to put it back up. It’s the new bible for a drifting
      generation whose parents have no idea of what principles to tell their children to live by. We are getting into loose hippy ideas of branching out, dropping out,
      and making changes, so what do you do – you find some cult figure to tell you.
      They had the Vietnam war looming which they were rejecting; we have the end of our world. That would make anyone grab at something like a calf will suck your thumb for comfort.

      • WeTheBleeple 18.1.1
        27 March 2019 at 6:38 pm

        You nailed it GWS. A distinct lack of leadership and answers in tumultuous times.

        I don’t see Peterson as a nasty type right, more a mediator among them. A bloke they identify with who might talk them back from a ledge. He got famous re: the pronoun debate and upset a lot of left wing people. This enamored him with a lot of disaffected right wing youth.

        He’s asked them to be introspective. I like that, far cry from blaming immigrants for everything. He’s taken on their nihilism with instructions for self-responsibility.

        And people mock his readers like slow children – for trying not to be nihilistic butt-heads. There’s a lot worse types out there they might have glommed on to.

        I also rate his lectures on the bible stories. I’ve not read his recent book.

    • Gabby 18.2
      27 March 2019 at 5:26 pm

      Is it in the fairytale section now beewee?

  19. ankerawshark 19
    27 March 2019 at 12:54 pm

    Audrey Young has been absent from writing her column since the christchurch massacre. Maybe she has been on leave? Her chosen topic for her first article is about Winston Peters supposedly falling asleep in Turkey.

    The msm bias against the Coalition, Labour and Ardern is so very obvious right now.

    • Rapunzel 19.1
      27 March 2019 at 1:02 pm

      I heard a woman ring in while out driving and give a robust account of how disgusted she was with Shorn Plunket’s pre-show blurb on Winston, you could apply her concerns to almost every host they have on that particular station now – with the slight exception that Brendan Telfer did play devil’s advocate on occasion to contest their rabid opinions.
      She called it “talk at” rather than talk back and she is 100% correct.
      Sadly Telfer is only a fill in for a couple of weeks for the equally horrible Peter Williams – his lack of experience shows as well but that seems no bar for a station who chose him for his familiar name and allow their hosts to push their personal barrows with contentious subjects in a very one-sided way.

  20. WeTheBleeple 20
    27 March 2019 at 12:56 pm

    A man dead from what seems to be a self inflicted stab wound – after refusing to surrender to Police. Cache of arms found on dead mans property after public tip off.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/resident-says-he-heard-gunshot-in-overnight-incident-suburban-christchurch

    There is nowhere near enough information. It seems a suicide in preference to giving himself up. IF this is so, it is a very extreme reaction, and this guy was maybe up to something very nasty and/or is hiding other nasty people and designs.

    IF he killed himself rather than give up.

    Another scenario is that he was hurt by someone else, but that makes no sense in light of the standoff. If a so called associate tried silence you, you’d have second thoughts about dying to protect them.

    Wild speculation. Not facts at all.

  21. joe90 21
    27 March 2019 at 1:26 pm

    Thread about how the evil fuckers and their mates in the poisoning business are determined to kill every damn thing.

    https://twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/status/1110522380550590464

    https://tttthreads.com/thread/1110522380550590464.html

    http://archive.li/B7RdC

    • Macro 21.1
      27 March 2019 at 8:57 pm

      But Killary!
      How the fuck any person with an ounce of intelligence can say this current administration is as good as what might have been, had there not be an electoral college to stuff up the popular vote, I will never know.The environmental vandalism that has been carried out by t.rump and “friends” is unbelievable. This is just another sick instance of short term profit for a few takes precedence over all else.

  22. greywarshark 22
    27 March 2019 at 1:28 pm

    Interesting books I have come across on Trade me. The first one is major along with climate change in its harsh effects on us if we can’t mobilise to think how we can manage. No-one else will! And the book by Derek J Wilson above talks about 5 holocausts we are facing. These books relate to all sorts of strife we are noticing.

    “I am writing from inside the tech bubble to let you know that we are coming for your jobs.” So begins Andrew Yang’s book,
    The War on Normal People: The Truth About America’s Disappearing Jobs and Why Universal Basic Income is Our Future.

    Despite the tagline, this isn’t fundamentally a book about Universal Basic Income (UBI). It’s about the market, and our attitude towards it….It isn’t simply the case that American society is separating into strata, Yang argues, but that the elites are consciously working to put the rest of society out of work.

    The sectors where “normal” people tend to work—administration, retail, food service, transportation, and manufacturing—have high levels of repetitiveness and are highly susceptible to automation. Since competition in these sectors is quite fierce, companies are sooner or later forced to automate to keep up with their competition. Once a single competitor automates, the others must follow. In many cases, automation is not only cheaper, but also produces better products or services. The natural result is, as Yang relates through conversations he’s had with people in the tech industry, a race to make “normal” people redundant….

    Keeping At It
    The Quest for Sound Money and Good Government
    by Paul Volcker and Christine Harper

    Paul Volcker has devoted his life’s work to public service and the critical importance of open, disciplined and efficient government. As chairman of the Federal Reserve (1979-1987) he literally rescued the American economy from destroying itself, summoning the courage to take radical and controversial steps to slay the inflation dragon.

    And whenever the going got really tough–the financial crash of 2008, the need to reform banking, the oil for food UN scandal, the turmoil in Switzerland over theft of Holocaust victims, cheating in Major League Baseball–US presidents and other leaders said to ‘get Volcker in here to help me work this thing through.’…
    http://fortune.com/2018/10/30/paul-volcker-book-review/

    Lost Enlightenment S. Frederick Starr

    In this sweeping and richly illustrated history, S. Frederick Starr tells the fascinating but largely unknown story of Central Asia’s medieval enlightenment through the eventful lives and astonishing accomplishments of its greatest minds–remarkable figures who built a bridge to the modern world.

    Because nearly all of these figures wrote in Arabic, they were long assumed to have been Arabs. In fact, they were from Central Asia–drawn from the Persianate and Turkic peoples of a region that today extends from Kazakhstan southward through Afghanistan, and from the easternmost province of Iran through Xinjiang, China. Lost Enlightenment recounts how, between the years 800 and 1200, Central Asia led the world in trade and economic development, the size and sophistication of its cities, the refinement of its arts, and, above all, in the advancement of knowledge in many fields. Central Asians achieved signal breakthroughs in astronomy, mathematics, geology, medicine, chemistry, music, social science, philosophy, and theology, among other subjects.
    They gave algebra its name, calculated the earth’s diameter with unprecedented precision, wrote the books that later defined European medicine, and penned some of the world’s greatest poetry. One scholar, working in Afghanistan, even predicted the existence of North and South America–five centuries before Columbus. Rarely in history has a more impressive group of polymaths appeared at one place and time. No wonder that their writings influenced European culture from the time of St. Thomas Aquinas down to the scientific revolution, and had a similarly deep impac ..

  24. Jenny - How to get there? 24
    28 March 2019 at 6:17 am

    There is no housing shortage.

    And inevitably, just as predicted, the over supply of houses is leading to perfectly good houses being demolished.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/111576642/saving-surplus-houses-from-demolition-is-helping-solve-housing-crisis

    This is only the beginning

    The wanton destruction, can only accelerate as more and more un-affordable new houses reach completion and can’t find buyers.

    It won’t be much longer before newly built homes will also go under the wrecking ball.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/the-ghost-house-epidemic-and-the-invisible-hand/#comment-1188477

    We must not allow this

    What is really needed is a government prepared to do what they did in Vancouver,

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/vancouver-bc-wields-7450-a-day-fine-in-crackdown-on-empty-homes/

  25. Jenny - How to get there? 25
    28 March 2019 at 6:45 am

    The failure of the Left and the cowardice of the Centrists.

    Green New Deal blocked. Democratic Senators abstain, (four voted against it).

    ….At 0-57, the nonbinding measure fell short of the necessary 60-vote threshold needed. No senators voted in support of it. Four members of the Democratic caucus voted against it. And most Democrats simply voted “present.”

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-green-new-deal_n_5c9af1ede4b072a7f6012f5b

    • Sam 25.1
      28 March 2019 at 6:53 am

      How many votes did AOC get in her constituent like 15k. She’s about 70 million votes short of getting legislation across the house floor. Perhaps she should learn her craft first before assigning blame to others.

      • Jenny - How to get there? 25.1.1
        28 March 2019 at 7:15 am

        Sam 25.1
        28 March 2019 at 6:53 am
        How many votes did AOC get in her constituent like 15k……

        In fact it is remarkable that AOC has a seat in Congress at all.

        Usually money from corporate donors to fund your campaign is needed to win a seat, in the US congress.

        Corporate backers that “most” Democratic Senators can’t afford to offend.

        The Democratic Caucus know what needs to be done. This is shown by the fact, that “most” didn’t vote against the Green New Deal. That they didn’t actively vote for it, shows that they are afraid of offending their corporate sponsors.

        https://splinternews.com/democrats-who-swore-off-corporate-campaign-donations-ar-1830082624

        • Sam 25.1.1.1
          28 March 2019 at 7:30 am

          What a cop out. How about using her position to lobby congress people instead of buying them off before she goes off half cocked proclaiming that America should give up air travel. Finger waving and facial features do not make up for a lack of support.

  26. Eco Maori 26
    29 March 2019 at 8:44 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
    https://youtu.be/u9Dg-g7t2l4
    There should be a story about there not being a complaint process for the common person to make. Police Station have no complaints procedure that actually works.??????????????

  27. Eco Maori 27
    29 March 2019 at 10:35 am

    snonky housing short has worked a treat one can not even rent a furniture storage in Rotorua I new that was going to happen that + no housing to rent. What a joke Ka kite ano link below

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11630414

  28. Eco Maori 28
    29 March 2019 at 10:59 am

    Jenny Eco Maori says it about time the government made laws to make the wealthy rent out the house they buy make them rent them out to the POOR COMMON PEOPLE. KA KITE ANO

  29. Eco Maori 29
    29 March 2019 at 11:21 am

    I go to the gas station this morning and Eco Maori get a funny smell then I look around for the sandflys stalkers and sure enough there it is a 6 3 bald man peeping at me from behind the petrol pump. You see whanau were ever I go the sandflys are stalking here is a photo of one of there stalkers cars stalking me now. Ka kite ano.P.S the setting on. My phone are playing up when I get the bad smell it means they intend to ATTACK ECO MAORI

  30. Eco Maori 30
    29 March 2019 at 12:43 pm

    Don’t believe all the negative stories the oil barron have commissioned against Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s the WEALTHY are shaking in their boots because of her MANA WAHINE Kia kaha Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/28/dogs-can-smell-when-seizures-are-about-to-begin-scientists-
    find

    https://youtu.be/m5M8vvEhCFI

  31. Eco Maori 31
    29 March 2019 at 2:53 pm

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/mar/27/people-are-dying-ocasio-cortez-delivers-fiery-speech-on-climate-inaction-video link for my story above people are dieing because of climate change the rich try and put a spin on the subject and call us leftys greens intelligent people Elite’s look in the – – – mirror BOY Ka kite ano

  32. Eco Maori 32
    29 March 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia ora Newshub It’s sad to see that humpback whale tangled with old fish gear mabe Dock could have a hot line so when the public see a issue like that with our wild life they can report it.
    That beluga whale is a beautiful looking creature I miss the story on them. I know someone who has payed 10000 deposit on getting a new roof as far as I know he is still waiting 3 months later for his new roof I offered to help him but know some people have no scrupulous. I seen that Ruaumoko is waking up in Mexico.
    Tawhirirmate is very powerful Mike Ka kite ano.

  33. Eco Maori 33
    29 March 2019 at 6:51 pm

    Kia ora Te ao Maori News its good to see that there was a good atmosphere in Christchurch today.
    I that was a awesome sung NZ ational anthem I think you have a few songs on YouTube that I listened to. Poor Hine got it when she sang the Maori ational anthem in England at a All Blacks test Mana Wahine. I say if tangata whenua te reo is receiving GREAT Interest than Kapa Haka is receiving the same KA PAI.
    Aroha is Nice but I want justice and Equal rights Equality. P.S you media people know how much attention the Authorities are paying to ECO MAORI subjects What I am getting at is everything I say is True you know the old saying the best trick the devil has pulled is no one believes it exists even when its ight in front of our EYES

  34. Eco Maori 34
    29 March 2019 at 6:55 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
    https://youtu.be/1SN7Pko_jCM

  35. Eco Maori 35
    29 March 2019 at 7:07 pm

    AT I HAVE A ASULT ON MY FREEDOM EVERYDAY OF THE YEAR JUSTICE EQUALITY WHAT A JOKE

  36. Eco Maori 36
    30 March 2019 at 9:33 am

    Some things go missing from my house quite regularly can you guess who muppets.
    https://youtu.be/tgVVG5EknuI

  37. Eco Maori 37
    30 March 2019 at 12:25 pm

    These sandflys are using all the dirtiest tricks in their little books to try and stop Eco Maori but know I have something they know Eco Maori is UNTOUCHABLE Ka kite ano

    https://youtu.be/Yd2T3o-Ybow