Open Mike 28/10/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 28th, 2016 - 142 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …
[In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all comments, link postings etc about the US election under the dedicated US Election Discussion Post here.]

142 comments on “Open Mike 28/10/2016 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Paul 1
    28 October 2016 at 6:17 am

    Emmerson makes a link between Key Junior, Key Senior and Donald Trump.

    http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/gif/201644/281016NZHcartoonRE.gif

  2. Paul 2
    28 October 2016 at 6:20 am

    Martin Bradbury ask some pertinent questions about the euthanasia checkpoint story.

    Will the media buy this absurd claim that the Police were just acting on good faith and that this wasn’t a training exercise?
    It depends.
    For this spin to work the NZ media need to believe that the Police just woke up one morning and said to themselves, ‘Hey, let’s set up an illegal checkpoint and scam the activists into giving us their details so we can turn up on their door later and intimidate them’.
    How did any Police Officer think this was an appropriate thing to do?
    If this was just ‘acting in good faith’ how many other times have the Police used this tactic?
    Why didn’t Police Chiefs ensure what they were about to embark upon was legal?
    How come no alarm bells went off in Head Office when this was being reviewed?
    For us to believe that this was ‘good faith’ we need to believe that one day the cops just woke up and decided to use an incredibly controversial abuse of Police powers without anyone questioning it.
    This wasn’t good faith, this was the Police trying on their new search and surveillance powers against an activist group with no real voice so that they know how to use them when targeting protest groups like anti-TPPA, Greenpeace, Amnesty International etc etc.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/10/28/will-nz-media-buy-police-euthanasia-excuse/

    • Richard Rawshark 2.1
      28 October 2016 at 7:31 am

      Then Martin Bradbury didn’t listen to the police manplanation yesterday or wrote this beforehand.

      If assisting someone to commit suicide is a crime due to the fact that is seriously has moral and legal issues, but suicide is not illegal.

      It means they are preventing someone from perhaps being charged innocently with manslaughter or murder would you be ok with that, like say your granny got involved.

      Their are IMHO absolute reasons why assisting someone to kill themselves would never ever be ok.

      • Garibaldi 2.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 7:39 am

        I fully agree with Bomber. This is just the beginning for the state to trample all over us with their new powers. There will be no dissension tolerated. This is our brighter future.

        • weka 2.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 11:04 am

          “This is just the beginning for the state to trample all over us with their new powers.”

          Except it’s hardly new, so not a beginning. I think Bradbury overstates the case hugely. Trialling this as being useful for suppression of protest might be a bonus of the operation but I doubt that it was the main motivation.

          My guess is that someone was at the meeting (either genuine member of the public, or person put their by the police) and phoned the police and reported that people were intending to suicide. Police would be obligated to act, and they did so in a way that at the least is unethical and probably breaks the law. We should be very concerned that they thought this was acceptable, but there is enough there to worry about without Bradbury fear mongering angst.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2
        28 October 2016 at 8:10 am

        Now you’re really scraping the barrel trying to justify the police’s Nazi style actions.

        Yes, it really is perfectly fine for someone to help another person commit suicide if the other person requests when they’re already terminally ill and are in pain.

        • marty mars 2.1.2.1
          28 October 2016 at 9:41 am

          big moral question there draco and one where every single person believes their moral position is the moral one – a quagmire.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 10:58 am

            It’s rather simple logic:

            Does a person have the right to end their life?
            If so they then have the right to ask for assistance to do so.

            The answer to the first question is ‘yes’.

            No moral quandaries at all.

            • marty mars 2.1.2.1.1.1
              28 October 2016 at 11:23 am

              shows you don’t get it if you think there are no moral quandaries plus the height of arrogance too in your unequivocal statement plus “hey let’s work as a team and do it my way” springs to mind.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                28 October 2016 at 12:34 pm

                Do you actually have an argument against what I said?

                Or are you just going to go the ad hominem route?

                • marty mars …
                  28 October 2016 at 1:23 pm

                  why would I argue against a zealot? You have said that your way is the ONLY way – what compromise are you willing to make from there? Answer – none. That is zealotry mate and that is why you are just like any religious extremist when you spout your way is the only way –

                  You said “It’s rather simple logic:

                  Does a person have the right to end their life?
                  If so they then have the right to ask for assistance to do so.

                  The answer to the first question is ‘yes’.

                  No moral quandaries at all.”

                  thus the circle is complete…

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    28 October 2016 at 2:38 pm

                    Ah, so it’s the stupid ad hominem way and no argument because you simply don’t have one.

                    Your ignorance and your arrogance that comes from it is truly astounding.

                    • McFlock …
                      28 October 2016 at 2:48 pm

                      How does one persuade someone else that the issue isn’t black and white, but involves shades of grey?

                    • marty mars …
                      28 October 2016 at 2:49 pm

                      I haven’t ad homed you at all – just declined to argue with someone with a closed and fixed mind. Not that strange or difficult to understand – try growing up a bit eh.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      28 October 2016 at 3:38 pm

                      How does one persuade someone else that the issue isn’t black and white, but involves shades of grey?

                      By mentioning what shades of grey you think are there?

                      I haven’t ad homed you at all

                      Yes you did. Right from the start you attacked me and all to try to hide your own ignorance and stupidity.

                    • marty mars …
                      28 October 2016 at 3:49 pm

                      @ draco – no you are wrong

                      you have played the man not the ball and YOU have done what you accuse me of.

                      You have called me ignorant and arrogant just because I don’t want to argue with you because you have a fixed position which doesn’t broker compromise. You are childish in trying to go down those lines.

                      The exchange shows that you are a zealot and like lots of them you are only too happy to abuse and insult those that either don’t agree with you, or who refuse to play your little games. Why not go and knock an ancient structure down while you’re at it, idiot.

                      there I’ve chucked a few real ad homs in there dickhead to show you how real ones look dimmy.

                    • McFlock …
                      28 October 2016 at 3:57 pm

                      By mentioning what shades of grey you think are there?

                      Ok. Someone wants to commit suicide. People who know them recognise this as a temporary depressive episode, so turn down requests for assistance. Person then goes to long-time acquaintances who are unfamiliar with person’s cyclical history, so they assist the suicide after the person puts up a good snow job on them.

                      What’s your call on that – all okay? Were the friends wrong? Was the final assister wrong? How do you legalise assistance without enabling this sort of situation?

                    • weka …
                      28 October 2016 at 4:20 pm

                      @McFlock, are you conflating suicide with euthanasia there? They’re not the same thing.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      28 October 2016 at 7:07 pm

                      @McFlock

                      What’s your call on that – all okay?

                      No, not Ok – but it bypassed the question I asked.

                      Does a person have a right to end their own life?

                      All the rest are important but you have to start off with that first question because everything else follows from it.

                      If they do have that right then they also have the right to ask for assistance. Then we have to ask:
                      What type of assistance and who can they ask?

                      And that is where legalisation comes in as it can then be used to address the concerns that you have.

                      But it also shows up that the present laws are actually causing problems. First of all they’re going against peoples rights and. because they push it all underground, bringing about situations that you’re concerned with.

                      In other words, the present laws are wrong and the police acted wrongly.

                      @marty mars

                      you have played the man not the ball and YOU have done what you accuse me of.

                      You attacked me right from the word go. Assuming that you knew my position, a position that you didn’t like but couldn’t argue against.

                      And you’re still doing it.

                      there I’ve chucked a few real ad homs in there dickhead to show you how real ones look dimmy.

                      No, you’ve just proved your stupidity because you still fail to engage and thus fail to understand.

                    • marty mars …
                      28 October 2016 at 8:03 pm

                      You said the answer was yes to the right of people to take their own life. That is a position. I simply said others didn’t agree with that position thus there are arguments around it. If ive got that wrong please let me know.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      28 October 2016 at 9:31 pm

                      You said the answer was yes to the right of people to take their own life. That is a position.

                      Yes. A logically and ethically consistent one.

                      I simply said others didn’t agree with that position thus there are arguments around it.

                      What arguments can there possibly be to allow society to force life upon someone who doesn’t want it? It’s their life.

                      As was pointed out – Suicide isn’t illegal. Same as smoking marijuana isn’t illegal and for the same reason – it impinges upon a person’s right to do as they wish to their own body in so far as it doesn’t harm others.

        • Richard Rawshark 2.1.2.3
          28 October 2016 at 10:29 am

          No not in the current state of the laws about it i’m fairly sure assisting dying is not ok didn’t a recent case of a lady wanting that get denied by the supreme court, DTB.

          I don’t mind discussing topics, but don’t label me a supporter of the Nazi state mate. You know i’m not, and that therefore became childish name calling.

          Hmm now before people throw shade at my own name calling..um no excuses, but I can’t help it they are Nats.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.3.1
            28 October 2016 at 11:00 am

            No not in the current state of the laws about it i’m fairly sure assisting dying is not ok didn’t a recent case of a lady wanting that get denied by the supreme court, DTB.

            And in this case the laws happen to be wrong.

            …but don’t label me a supporter of the Nazi state mate.

            And yet you’ve been supporting police actions that are reminiscent of the Nazi Regime.

    • ianmac 2.2
      28 October 2016 at 8:44 am

      Or to exercise a religious anti-suicide belief.

    • aerobubble 2.3
      28 October 2016 at 1:45 pm

      The idea that activists, engaged in a parliamentary process, would become ‘criminalized’ by association however argued as good faith. Anyone who does not understand the threat is an idiot. The head of Police should be offering their head, and Parliament Speaker should be issuing warrent? to appear before commitees. Any dirty politics like this eats right to the core of democracy. If someone ushed Police to do this they need to exposed and remived from any power and influence.

      • aerobubble 2.3.1
        28 October 2016 at 1:47 pm

        oh, and now i know what a heliumkit can do, thanks Police, how many suicides will that assist! Resign now Police Chief.

  3. Paul 3
    28 October 2016 at 6:24 am

    Signs of an upcoming collapse in Auckland house prices

    A looming decline in cashed-up Asian property buyers has prompted real estate agents to urge locals to sell up while they still have the chance to make big money.

    Auckland real estate agent Rowan Ma, of LJ Hooker Ponsonby, distributed letters to residents in the Sandringham and Mt Roskill areas telling home owners now was the time to sell their property.

    Leaving it until later would mean less money in their pockets.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11737196

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11737165

    • Richard Rawshark 3.1
      28 October 2016 at 7:33 am

      Usually prices don’t go down they just don’t sell.

      I think we shall have to wait and see evidence of house price declines.

      • Red 3.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 10:26 am

        Agree, likewise people just can’t walk away from thier properties as they did in the states re non recourse loans. The impact of house price decline will be on wealth affect and flow on spending

    • Red 3.2
      28 October 2016 at 10:24 am

      You love this stuff Paul in supporting your hope that misery will befall Nz, thankfully you are well documented chicken liltlle, cry wolf nutty type thus easily ignored

      • Richard Rawshark 3.2.1
        28 October 2016 at 10:35 am

        So are you Red. Quick like the simpson’s toon to point and go haha.

        The flow of money drying up will cause a lot of issues, in the real estate industry alone. Renovation industry, painting industry, kitchen and bathroom appliances, builders, electricians, plumbers..

        Fluctuation in a country riding on the housing market and immigration is dangerous, but you keep thinking Keys your saviour. that’s stupidity right there.

      • reason 3.2.2
        28 October 2016 at 8:34 pm

        Paul puts up links to real events and news storys ……

        Red posts up his right wing troll opinions …..

        trolls are the living embodiment of dick pics …. and should be treated accordingly.

        Red knob 🙂

  4. Morrissey 4
    28 October 2016 at 6:25 am

    Maryan Street develops a conscience

    Maryan Street, the president of the Voluntary Euthanasia Society, correctly stated that the police roadblocks to trap elderly euthanasia enthusiasts was “illegal.”

    It’s encouraging to learn that she has developed a conscience since she stopped being a Labour M.P. Back in 2007 she remained silent and apparently untroubled by the illegality of the police raids in the Urewera country.

  5. Morrissey 5
    28 October 2016 at 6:36 am

    [deleted]

  6. Paul 6
    28 October 2016 at 6:49 am

    [deleted]

    • Manuka AOR 6.1
      28 October 2016 at 8:00 am

      Isn’t there a designated post for this – Not OM!

    • marty mars 6.2
      28 October 2016 at 9:44 am

      yes why are you pushing the rules paul – what are you up to?

      • weka 6.2.1
        28 October 2016 at 10:01 am

        Thanks Manuka and marty for pointing that out. I did the Open Mike edit last night but it didn’t take for some reason. One would have hoped that given there is a dedicate US Election post in plain sight people would have the sense to use it.

        • marty mars 6.2.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 10:21 am

          I think the system is working and certainly makes om nicer imo – good work team and thanks

          • Andre 6.2.1.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 10:25 am

            Yep, I certainly feel more comfortable putting links that might be of interest to other people into a dedicated thread, rather than feeling like I’m spamming a lot of people with no interest in the US election. Thanks, weka.

  7. Manuka AOR 7
    28 October 2016 at 7:41 am

    Helen Kelly’s memorial service is being held today at 1.00pm.
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/hundreds-pay-tribute-helen-kellys-funeral-today
    There should be a link somewhere for the live stream.

  8. Richard Rawshark 8
    28 October 2016 at 7:45 am

    Very good insights from Russel, he’s learning a few things.

  9. Manuka AOR 9
    28 October 2016 at 7:51 am

    Iceland is having an election tomorrow. It is looking as though the radical Pirate party may well get in. If they do, they are offering asylum to Edward Snowden.

    A party that favours direct democracy, complete government transparency, decriminalising drugs and offering asylum to Edward Snowden could form the next government in Iceland after the country goes to the polls on Saturday.

    Riding a wave of public anger at perceived political corruption in the wake of the 2008 financial crash and the Panama Papers scandal in April, Iceland’s Pirate party looks on course to either win or finish a close second.

    The radical party, founded by activists and hackers four years ago as part of an international anti-copyright movement, captured 5% of the vote in 2013 elections, winning three seats in Iceland’s 63-member parliament, the Althingi.

    This time around, analysts say it could win between 18 and 20 seats. This would put it in pole position to form a government at the head of a broad progressive alliance of up to five parties currently in opposition.

    The party’s leader and figurehead is Birgitta Jónsdóttir, a 49-year-old feminist MP, poet, artist and former WikiLeaks collaborator. Jónsdóttir says she has no ambition to be prime minister, pointing to the Pirate party’s horizontal structure. Rather, she wants to sweep away what she sees as Iceland’s dysfunctional system.

    “People in Iceland are sick of corruption and nepotism,” she has said. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/26/iceland-election-could-propel-radical-pirate-party-into-power

    • ianmac 9.1
      28 October 2016 at 9:07 am

      Birgitta Jónsdóttir was on Morning Report today. She said that ahead of the vote on Saturday, they had already had discussions with the other Parties and have set up a coalition ready to take over. She said that the Pirates were sometimes Right and sometimes Left. That is something to consider for our Politics.
      (As I sat on the Icelandic seashore and chatted to a local, we watched the sun set at close to midnight. He said that Greenland should be called Iceland and Iceland should be called Greenland as Iceland is a very green country.)

      • Manuka AOR 9.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 9:11 am

        The bit in brackets is you yourself? You were there?
        Yes, I’ve heard that Iceland is quite beautiful (and Greenland much colder)

        • ianmac 9.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 11:29 am

          Yes Manuka. We were there. Iceland is a beautiful country. We walked up an ash covered glacier as it crept down the mountain. A terminal glacier was spilling huge chunks of ice into the river and then swirling out to sea.
          And to be one of the few countries who made the cheating bankers and shifty politicians accountable.

      • Manuka AOR 9.1.2
        28 October 2016 at 9:15 am

        they had already had discussions with the other Parties and have set up a coalition ready to take over.
        So they’ll hit the ground running, by the sound of it.

        That is something to consider for our Politics.
        Yes, for sure.

    • saveNZ 9.2
      28 October 2016 at 9:26 am

      @Manuka AOR – wow!

      “People in Iceland are sick of corruption and nepotism,”

      Hopefully the same can start to be true in NZ.

  10. Manuka AOR 10
    28 October 2016 at 7:57 am

    See outer space in technicolour, thanks to astrophysicists and a $50 million telescope.

    Astrophysicists say they have produced the first hi-res view of the universe showing intergalactic space as if humans could see radio waves.

    Wellington astrophysicists from Victoria University were part of the team who catalogued large-scale survey data from 300,000 galaxies using a telescope known as GLEAM, which stands for the Galactic and Extra-Galactic All-sky Murchison Widefield Array telescope.

    It is the first such deep space image showing space as if radio waves were visible to the human eye. http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/85777802/see-outer-space-in-technicolour-thanks-to-astrophysicists-and-a-50m-telescope

  11. marty mars 11
    28 October 2016 at 10:12 am

    this shit is getting real

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/oct/27/north-dakota-access-pipeline-police-protesters-live-updates

    I think there is a real danger of overreaction from authorities that will leave dead and injured protesters.

    • weka 11.1
      28 October 2016 at 10:30 am

      Mark Ruffalo is the next 1%er to stand up with Standing Rock. I’m not sure about the whole white man taking centre stage thing, but he speaks from the heart and is on fire with his words currently. He’s been doing climate activism for a while including working on transition technology.

      https://www.facebook.com/terrance.clifford/videos/vb.1508329013/10210928071866970/?type=2&theater

      • marty mars 11.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 10:39 am

        Yeah I know what you mean – I put a fbook of mark with jesse jackson up the other day. I think he has cred but we need the people to speak not celebs imo.

        • weka 11.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 10:58 am

          He seems to be ruffling a few dickhead sheriff feathers 😉

          Morton County has entrusted me to uphold the law and that is exactly what I intend to do. Yet I am being asked by outsiders and millionaire Hollywood actors to let agitators and rioters walk onto private property, destroy equipment, and endanger lives. And, so-called environmentalists are asking me to turn my head and allow this to happen. We have patrolled the county and enforced the law because our number one priority is public safety, separating the unlawful actors from legal protesters. This is not about the pipeline. This is not about those who wish to legally protest. This is about the rule of law.

          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/oct/27/north-dakota-access-pipeline-police-protesters-live-updates?page=with:block-58127522e4b08d944ba4b674#block-58127522e4b08d944ba4b674

          For people that haven’t been following, the police have been charging protestors and journalists with rioting offences when they have been walking to and fro from prayer events.

          • Bill 11.1.1.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 11:11 am

            What ‘dickhead sheriff’ would have said if he was being honest and up front 😉

            This is about the rule of law protecting private property and opportunities for profit

            • Macro 11.1.1.1.1.1
              28 October 2016 at 12:11 pm

              But isn’t that what the rule of law is for – protecting private property and opportunities for profit?
              😈

    • weka 11.2
      28 October 2016 at 10:35 am

      Good to see this coverage from the Guardian. Some of the background stuff that has been going on is scary shit. The CAA (or equivalent) this week put a no fly zone around the area, which means that the water protectors can’t legally use drones to film what the pipeline company is doing including when they breach injunctions. It also means that there will be no aerial footage of the police action today.

      There’s been many arrests recently, mostly for misdemeanours but the people end up being strip searched, humiliated and one woman was left in a cell naked over night. This is not just intimidation but provocation. The feeling is the ante is being upped in order to provoke violence from the protectors so they can then be portrayed as violent, with all the white supremacist meme-ing that goes with that.

    • joe90 11.4
      28 October 2016 at 12:54 pm

      On a day when the Y’all Qaeda/sovcit wingnuts walked.

      Many injured! Some tased in the faces at close range! Some hit by armored vehicle! Kops out of control striking YOUTHS with clubs .— Thunder Walks About (@notaxiwarrior) October 27, 2016

      #NoDAPL #StandingRock Medics, women & children and reporters targeted. If this was anywhere else in the world, we'd flip out and intervene. https://t.co/LNNyOaI66S— Darla Donna (@DarlaDonna) October 27, 2016

  12. joe90 12
    28 October 2016 at 11:30 am

    Heads will roll.

    Karma, it turns out, is a borscht.

    A Ukrainian group calling itself Cyber Hunta has released more than a gigabyte of emails and other material from the office of one of Vladimir Putin’s top aides, Vladislav Surkov, that show Russia’s fingerprints all over the separatist movement in the Ukraine.

    While the Kremlin has denied the relationship between Moscow and the separatists, the emails show in great detail how Russia controlled virtually every detail of the separatist effort in the Russian-speaking regions of the Ukraine, which has torn Ukraine apart and led to a Russian takeover of Crimea.

    And unlike the reported Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee, the Ukrainian hack reached deep into the office of the Russian president.

    “This is a serious hack,” said Maks Czuperski, head of the Digital Forensic Research Lab of the Atlantic Council (DFRL), which has searched through the email dump and placed selected emails on-line.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/payback-russia-gets-hacked-revealing-putin-aide-s-secrets-n673956

  13. The Chairman 13
    28 October 2016 at 11:42 am

    13TH | Official Trailer
    https://youtu.be/V66F3WU2CKk

  14. Manuka AOR 14
    28 October 2016 at 11:46 am

    US votes “No” as UN holds historic vote for nuclear weapons ban”

    Co-sponsored by 57 nations, L41 calls for a 2017 conference ‘to negotiate a legally binding instrument to prohibit nuclear weapons, leading towards their total elimination’

    In what is being called a historic moment for nuclear disarmament, United Nations members meeting in New York City on Thursday are voting on a nonbinding resolution to ban nuclear weapons.
    ——-
    Noting that there are currently 15,395 nuclear weapons in the arsenals of nine countries, the EU resolution states, “MEPs are deeply concerned about the deteriorating security situation around the EU and beyond, due to the deterioration of relations between the nuclear powers such as Russia and the United States, or India and Pakistan, as well as the recent spike in the nuclear potential of North Korea.”
    ——-
    Robert Wood, the U.S. special representative to the UN’s Geneva-based Conference on Disarmament, … telling the Assembly earlier this month that the U.S. would be voting “no” on L.41 and “would refuse to participate in the negotiations over a nuclear ban if it passes,” http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/10/27/us-votes-no-un-holds-historic-vote-nuclear-weapons-ban

    • Manuka AOR 15.1
      28 October 2016 at 12:19 pm

      Same in the BoP 🙁

    • joe90 15.2
      28 October 2016 at 12:26 pm

      Same shit in Raglan and Oakura.

    • Macro 15.3
      28 October 2016 at 1:49 pm

      And the Coromandel. Spoke to a guy last weekend – long time resident and just lost his rental accommodation because it was being sold to someone moving down from Auckland. But no where for him and his family to go. He works in the town, but there is on average just one house for rent available around the town, and rental rates are going through the roof.
      This is also having a direct impact on our other social resource providers. Last night at a meeting I heard that our Foodbank is under severe pressure. (Despite a two day sale by the Salvation Army Op shop raising $4500. last weekend). This is a town of around 7500 people – last year the food bank issued 430 food parcels. This year to the end of Sept the Foodbank had issued 540.
      The number of people using the Open Door emergency housing has also doubled this year.

  16. joe90 16
    28 October 2016 at 12:30 pm

    Y’all Qaeda/sovcit wingnuts have been green lighted to do whatever the fuck they like.

    BREAKING: NOT GUILTY. All defendants on all counts. #oregonstandoff trials— Andrew Dymburt (@DymburtNews) October 27, 2016

    • mauī 17.1
      28 October 2016 at 6:42 pm

      McCully was on the news taking the implied credit for the sanctuary. What they didn’t say is that New Zealand has plundered the antarctic toothfish fishery for 20 years without knowing what ecosystem effects that would have on the area.

      • Chuck 17.1.1
        29 October 2016 at 8:45 am

        “McCully was on the news taking the implied credit for the sanctuary”

        Ok I will bite…so who should we credit for the sanctuary negotiations?

        It reads as a team effort, with NZ and McCully being part of the team.

        • mauī 17.1.1.1
          29 October 2016 at 11:17 am

          There is a group who made a documentary called the Last Ocean. They appear to be the driving force behind getting a sanctuary, raising awareness and campaigning for years. What does McCully have to do, turn up at a conference every year and say his stated position.

  18. Richard Rawshark 18
    28 October 2016 at 2:45 pm

    And now for something completely different.

    I got a stove yesterday for mum, real nice Westinghouse Saturn, arrived today I hooked it up all good, mum starts cooking there’s no fan, and we look and it’s a Neptune!!!

    So I have to pull the whole thing out, ring them get the right one delivered install it and start her cooking again.

    The fridge from LG came with the wrong feet, the LG telly we had to return and they downgraded us as it was the last one they had. Really top model 2015, and they swap it for a low model same price 2016 with 1/4 the features.

    What the fucks going on in this country! A man can only handle so much bloody incompetence and businesses are taking the piss these days.

    • McFlock 18.1
      28 October 2016 at 3:15 pm

      Heh.

      Similar issue with Sky at the moment (yeah, yeah, but I like TV and I’m cool with paying for what I watch). They need to upgrade the decoder, apparently so they can use less satellite bandwidth (heard that through the grapevine, not from sky).

      So they call me up, wanting to organise a day for the box-swap. I need to be available between 8am and 4pm to get an upgrade I don’t need. WTF is this, 1983? I get that installations vary, but I’m supposed to cancel an entire day because they can’t even begin to estimate how long it’ll take to swap out the decoder? Piss off.

      • Richard Rawshark 18.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 3:23 pm

        Ahh yes, I know Sky well.. stick to your guns, tell them your paid 90 PH and that’s 8 hours and you’ll be glad to wait all day for someone to hand you one decoder and take your old one.

        Used to be the customer was important, people are so rude these days, at some places I honestly feel like i’m not wanted. Or that I should be greatful to be served, like Bunnings where I wait 20 minutes at ther till for one staff member to climb down from his stacking ladder and serve me. No shit actually happened..20 minutes, 3 people waiting. Probably ten, but a real ten.

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 3:41 pm

          Heh – Bunnings are the ones who wanted to get rid of the on-site defibrillator in Dunedin. Completely bullshit attitude to save a couple of grand/keep the peasants in line. Screw those guys.

          It’s weird, spark/telecom aren’t actually too bad these days. They used to be the worst of the worst, but now it’s sky who can’t figure out why they’re losing 40k customers a year.

  19. Muttonbird 19
    28 October 2016 at 4:28 pm

    Whilst I doubt there is very much we would ever agree with – it is very clear that New Zealand is a poorer place for her loss.

    Are you sure that’s what you wanted to say? Simple logic suggests your values (which are opposite to Kelly’s) make New Zealand a poorer place.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • james 19.1
      28 October 2016 at 5:15 pm

      Thats not what I was trying to say. I was saying that despite her views and mine being different – even I can see that New Zealand is a poorer place for her passing.

      • Muttonbird 19.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 5:20 pm

        Still doesn’t make sense. You don’t agree with anything she did or stood for yet say her passing and therefore the passing of her values, which you disagree with, make New Zeland a poorer place. Therefore the values you expound make New Zealand a poorer place, by your own definition.

        Good to know.

  20. Muttonbird 20
    28 October 2016 at 4:51 pm

    Interesting. Is James one of the organisers of the New Zealander of the year?

    “Rules cannot be bent otherwise you have anarchy so the rules are what the rules are.

    Sounds like something James would say.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/nzer-of-the-year-organisers-drop-helen-kelly-from-list-of-nominees-2016102815

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • james 20.1
      28 October 2016 at 5:16 pm

      Really – are you trolling on a thread like this?

      FFS – have some class.

      • Muttonbird 20.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 5:22 pm

        Do you agree with the axing of Helen Kelly from the New Zealander of the Year nominations?

        • Richard Rawshark 20.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 5:36 pm

          OI MB take it elsewhere, not everyone agree’s with her point of view AKA James but he was respectful in what he said and you just looked for a fight.

          It is not the place for YOU to do that.

          • Manuka AOR 20.1.1.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 5:45 pm

            true that

            • Muttonbird 20.1.1.1.1.1
              28 October 2016 at 5:52 pm

              Nope. I don’t buy into people who disagreed with her whole mission in life suddenly taking the opportunity to lament her passing while still pointing out their disagreement with her values. Doesn’t add up.

              • Anne …
                28 October 2016 at 6:42 pm

                It might appear ambiguous Muttonbird, but James is genuine in his praise for Helen Kelly. It can take death and hindsight for some to appreciate the innate goodness and talent of someone like Helen Kelly – especially those who were brought up to believe unionists were evil people as I suspect James might have been.

                • Muttonbird …
                  28 October 2016 at 6:46 pm

                  Anne. I’d accept what you are saying if people like James actually did appreciate the goodness and talent of all those who represent the workers and the renters and the disenfranchised. They don’t though. They always prefix their condolences to Helen Kelly with their outright opposition to all she stood for.

                  • Gangnam Style …
                    28 October 2016 at 8:02 pm

                    I agree with Muttonbird on here, the vicious hate she got during the Hobbit dispute on Standard & at other blogs makes the right wings voice of sympathy phoney in my opinion. What she wanted & what James wants are completely different things, diametrically opposed in fact, it’s just the right wing trying to hoodwink the left with lip service, I ain’t buying it & in fact I couldn’t care less what some right wing commentator thought of a NZ hero of the working class.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                28 October 2016 at 8:37 pm

                It adds up: this is what hypocrisy looks like.

  21. Muttonbird 21
    28 October 2016 at 5:11 pm

    I wonder if Paula Bennett has had any involvement in the police prosecution of Hurimoana Dennis after he embarrassed her by publicly opening the doors of the Te Puea Marae to the homeless people she is responsible for.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/senior-police-officers-charged-with-kidnapping-2016102816

    • james 21.1
      28 October 2016 at 5:18 pm

      Perhaps its more to do with him breaking the law?

      • Muttonbird 21.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 5:27 pm

        Here’s another who showed up the police in the war on meth suddenly arrested.

        I must say it doesn’t pay to embarrass ministers of the current government…

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11737853

        • Richard Rawshark 21.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 5:43 pm

          Hmm..Do you think they really kicked 15 P dealers out? Or as I thought, this guy got off on the feed the kids notoriety and has gotten the fame bug.,..

          time will tell..

          • Chuck 21.1.1.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 5:53 pm

            Maybe Pink staged the attack on his car and self? The cops have gone over it with a fine tooth comb.

            As you say RR “the fame bug”.

            Lets see the facts as they come out in due course.

            However first prize must go to Muttonbird for this gem…

            “Here’s another who showed up the police in the war on meth suddenly arrested.”

            “I must say it doesn’t pay to embarrass ministers of the current government…”

            • Richard Rawshark 21.1.1.1.1.1
              28 October 2016 at 7:30 pm

              I wasn’t actually accusing him of that, it did cross my mind though when he started on the TV again and I did think about it.

              We will see when the facts come out. I seen a lot of holes in that car, no other reports that night of gunfire?

              Cops were harsh too waiting till Friday, did they bail him?

        • james 21.1.1.2
          28 October 2016 at 5:54 pm

          or more likely something to do with unlawful possession of firearms in a car full of bullet holes.

          Your tin foil hat is in fine form this afternoon.

    • Richard Rawshark 21.2
      28 October 2016 at 5:45 pm

      and that was happening way before then,… do you fact check, or does it interfere with your tin hat narrative.

  22. Richard Rawshark 22
    28 October 2016 at 5:41 pm

    Seems it was too much for the Herald to pay any respects to Helen Kelly Today.

    I can’t find anything about her, strange or just really, really bad form?

  23. Muttonbird 23
    28 October 2016 at 5:48 pm

    So who were ‘the communists’ who persecuted your father and his family? You sound like McCarthy.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  24. Richard Rawshark 24
    28 October 2016 at 6:01 pm

    A message for Muttonbird,

    I’m Albanian, my father was, my fathers father, my family were wiped out in front of there home with a Bullet to the head, those under 16 were left alive, my grandfather shot 4 times and left for dead survived, escaping to Italy with help from the villagers nearby who loved our family and new we were good people. The ones who were beheaded or shot in the back of the head outside the house did not.

    I have an Albanian video documentary right here of what happened, how my aunt was raped and beaten and made to work in communist prisons for many years then released and barred from working and no one was allowed to help. She and a few of my family survived, my father escaped through Macedonia and Greece two of his friends drowned swimming in the huge lake at the border of those countries while communist snipers shot anyone who tried to escape.

    MY father was given refuge in NZ by the government and arrived in 52 and was sent to Invercargill, he died due to the horrors he saw later when I was 8.

    I’ve been there and have been shown where he left Albania from and let me assure you with mountains full of snipers paid to kill escapee and at 15 YO that was some feat.

    [deleted]

    [you have an important story Richard, and a good way of telling it. Please don’t make threats of violence here though – weka]

    • joe90 24.1
      28 October 2016 at 6:21 pm

      Many years ago I kicked around with a bloke nicknamed Camel, as I recall his surname was something like Nazif/Nassif, the son of a post war refugee from Albania.

    • Muttonbird 24.2
      28 October 2016 at 6:37 pm

      [deleted]

      [completely inflammatory and out of line. See my warning below – weka]

      • BM 24.2.1
        28 October 2016 at 6:43 pm

        Can you be any more of a wanker?, If I was a mod I would have flushed you like the piece of shit that you are.

        • Muttonbird 24.2.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 6:49 pm

          You do more damage here than I, mate. It’s you who should be flushed.

          • reason 24.2.1.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 9:23 pm

            As far as dick pics go BM is a particularity ugly one …… who regularly gets banned for public wanking……

            It’s all Cok talk from BM

            Cult of Key …………….

            I’ve heard he’s a good dirty disco dancer though and has his own white pants for the john key 100% pure water challenge ………

            Instead of talking shit he will drink it …………..

        • Richard Rawshark 24.2.1.2
          28 October 2016 at 7:17 pm

          It’s ok BM, i’m leaving muttonbird to show what a complete tosser he really is, he started slagging people off on the Helen Kelly page started on me when I tried to tell him to settle down, got smart like a ten year old and is making himself lookl real cool.

          He even called me a right winger on the nightly review, so we know he’s completely onto it.

          [deleted]

  25. Morrissey 25
    28 October 2016 at 6:11 pm

    Time to conscript the idle and useless to the Army?

    Surely this foul and witless ne’er-do-well could be sent to Iraq, where he might be of some use, clearing mines or something….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11737059

  26. Robert Guyton 26
    28 October 2016 at 6:19 pm

    Key on Key:
    “Clearly he didn’t mean to make the sort of comment that he made in the way he did but he takes full responsibility for it,” he said.”

    What?
    What?

    Ugly underbelly, Max. Yours and John’s.

    • Muttonbird 26.1
      28 October 2016 at 6:30 pm

      What is he saying here? That young Max didn’t mean to cause offence? Why then did he do what he did and skite about it on snapchat? Is this same not meaning to do what he did that the pm indulged in when he harassed that waiter?

      • Richard Rawshark 26.1.1
        28 October 2016 at 7:18 pm

        You did the same here! you two faced fucking moron!

        • Muttonbird 26.1.1.1
          28 October 2016 at 7:23 pm

          Settle down Albania. That’s the fourth incidence of threatening verbal abuse from you in an hour.

          Discuss the issues – don’t issue threats.

          You and I are on the same side. I recognise that.

          • Richard Rawshark 26.1.1.1.1
            28 October 2016 at 7:25 pm

            Lets discuss the issue in person then? You seem to like making racist comments about my heritage, do it too my face if your Max Key enough.

            Keep going..

            • Muttonbird 26.1.1.1.1.1
              28 October 2016 at 7:56 pm

              I’m done. Your activity has increased a lot here over the last few weeks which has been noted and you always comment with high emotion. Passion is fine but I think you need tone the language down a bit.

              [warning to you both, if I see this same aggro and increasing inflammatory commenting tomorrow as I’ve just read through from today, I’ll be putting in some bans.- weka]

              • Richard Rawshark …
                28 October 2016 at 8:08 pm

                Noted huh.

                lol, your onto it mate, smarts galore.

                [warning to you both, if I see this same aggro and increasing inflammatory commenting tomorrow as I’ve just read through from today, I’ll be putting in some bans.- weka]

  27. weka 27
    28 October 2016 at 11:53 pm

    [In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.

    If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted – weka]

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.