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Open mike 29/05/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, May 29th, 2019 - 60 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

60 comments on “Open mike 29/05/2019”

  1. WeTheBleeple 1

    "American killed when hit by car"….

    "A car flung at his house by a tornado".

    When are they gonna realise their chump in chief will see them all crushed.

    Leaves or Lincolns

    the answers my friend, are blowing in the wind.

    • Robert Guyton 1.1

      I wonder, WTB, if this is your cup of tea; it is mine:

      https://www.terriwindling.com/blog/2019/05/hard-by-a-great-forest.html

      • WeTheBleeple 1.1.1

        In the opening comments

        "It is no accident that in the comedies of Shakespeare, people go into the greenwood to grow, learn and change"

        Just yesterday spent time with a gang member suggesting he needs some time out in the bush. We get so caught up in trivial strivings we lose our stillness, that ability to clearly ponder a thing without a hundred other thoughts crowding in. Mindfulness is merely a band aid for the disconnection from nature, natures quiet is the real deal.

        That being said I could do with some time out myself. Sitting here staring at this screen I recall the days of youth with a mountain as my back yard and a waterfall at base camp. Negotiating the tracks and streams on moonlit night, hunting eel and possum with tomahawk. The morepork calls out sharply then only the stream can be heard, but listening, in the distance, the relentless soft thundering of waves on the beach.

        The background noise today is the motorway. Progress…

  2. Muttonbird 2

    "In my life I have made it my ambition not to follow what Roger Douglas does,'' Mr Robertson shot back.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/390772/national-party-leader-and-finance-minister-in-standoff-over-budget-leak

  3. Robert Guyton 3

    If you search the meaning of sotto voce and click on the little speaker icon to hear how it's pronounced but forget to turn your laptop speakers down a little, you get a surprise that will make you laugh.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    Can anyone tell me what the Teacher's union end game is today? I don't get it. The NZEI seems to have determinedly talked themselves into a corner and now seem utterly intent on forcing a showdown with a government that is offering them a lot more than National ever did.

    The NZEI were gutless wonders when Key was the PM.

    But now they are behaving like flat track bullies who think they can force a winner-takes-all showdown, the most likely result of which be a loss of public support at their intransigence and government that may just decide that the teachers are not worth the bother, and join National in union busting law changes?

      • The Chairman 4.1.1

        The private sector are concerned and don't want the Government setting precedent in public sector wage rounds. Seems the Government are listening to those concerns.

        • CHCoff 4.1.1.1

          Defaulting to neo-liberalism because they are unable to represent their constituencies democratically doesn't give the unions much legitimacy – sustainable foundations for more progressive outcomes to them are only possible through positive contributions to ( & possessing the necessary attributes for) the democratic processes that good govt. is based on.

    • Peter 4.2

      A government offering them a lot more than National ever did?

      Maybe the union attitude would be different if there weren't the same National Party bullshit.

      An impression has been created that teachers are all (by and large) to get $10,000 a year extra. The implication is that the greedy bastards on $65,000 are striking when they've been offered $75,000 a year.

      The labels like 'gutless wonders,' and 'flat track bullies' are easy to throw around. Maybe 'weasely bastards' (for the politicians) and 'sucked in simpletons' (for some of the public) are easy to use too. And as equally justified and accurate.

      • Herodotus 4.2.1

        Ali should be heading both the wage "discussions" with the govt and media as the NZEI rep.

        Well done. And our Minister stated on Q&A that strike action was not justified. Thank you Minister for your wee part in the continual repression of pay for hard working Kiwi workers, and your govts mis representation of the pay demands of teachers.

        I hope todays actions are not overtaken by other events. Thanks Trev and Simon for this (Both should go )

  5. Robert Guyton 5

    Dave Kennedy's post on the issue might help answer your questions, Sanctuary.

    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-teacher-strikes-and-fiscal-cap.html

  6. My take on the 'Whale Oil' book – it's about far more than just the blog and Cameron Slater.

    It is primarily about a campaign of harassment against Matt Blomfield and his family over many years. At it's worst it involve an armed attack on them in their home. But it also involved many attacks online, and via text, with threats.

    It is also about the concerning lack of action by police.

    It also has wider interest in the prevalence of bullying online – this is one of the worst cases imaginable, but it is a big and topical issue.

    https://yournz.org/2019/05/29/so-what-is-the-whale-oil-book-about/

    • Sanctuary 6.1

      The troubling behaviour of Customs officials towards Felix Geiringer and the manuscript needs explaination as well, because the evidence is mounting up to what looks a lot like some sort of conspiracy to protect Slater, presumably originating from an operational level within our state security organs.

      here is an attractive conspiracy theory – Slater was, in my opinion, clearly getting money from the Israelis to run a hard line pro-Israel line on his site. Our "deep state" operators in the likes of the GCSB or SIS who like to think they are important players in the security of the "west" conspired at the behest of Israeli interests to try and shield Slater from be discredited as a slanderer and a fraud.

      Just throwing it out there for any novelists… 😉

      • dv 6.1.1

        Felix Geiringer and the manuscript and Customs officials- it was the Margie Thomson book?

      • Pete George 6.1.2

        Here are the Geiringer tweets.

        https://yournz.org/2019/05/28/nz-customs-accused-of-abusing-powers-ahead-of-blomfield-book-launch/

        It has been confirmed that it was Matt and his family who were detained by Customs for several hours when they returned to the country.

        From NZH:

        <blockquote>A conspiracy under the name "Operation Bumslide" saw the former business partner Warren Powell supply Slater and others with a decade of Blomfield's personal and financial records which were then used in an attempt to destroy his reputation.

        The blog posts were then backed up by complaints from "Operation Bumslide" members to a host of government enforcement agencies, leading to Blomfield being described as "one of New Zealand's most investigated people".</blockquote>

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12235063

      • Anne 6.1.3

        Yes, there is another story to be told about how some sections of the establishment behaved throughout the Slater years. Take for example the former director of the SIS, Warren Tucker supplying Cameron Slater with a top secret document containing what turned out to be false/incorrect information about then Labour leader, Phil Goff. Slater used it to discredit Goff on his blog-site Whale Oil.

        There was something rotten going down in the land of milk and honey!

    • mickysavage 6.2

      Credit to you too Pete for sticking to the story and insisting on publishing details. The acknowledgment of you last night was very appropriate.

    • lilamn 6.3

      Sorry , Police have become a weapon for this government so I have no faith in their ability to be impartial.

  7. Observer Tokoroa 7

    National – Knows everything

    During the reign of the quite strange Pm, Sir John Key, National gathered massive detail about us, the citzens of New Zealand.

    His little Shadow, Mr English – did his bit to please John Key.

    It is remarkable, that high and mighty National can put its chilling hands on any Information it wants.

    It will need to explain to the Citizens of New Zealand how they can wave any document they want – at any time they want – for the benefit of national corrupt politics.

    They remind me of low life…

  8. The Chairman 9

    Comfortable with this?

    A lobbyist was involved in choosing who became ministers in this government and what portfolios they got. And he got paid for it. Months later he went straight back to his role as a director of his lobbying firm, free to lobby those very same ministers.

    https://mailchi.mp/criticalpolitics/political-roundup-should-we-worry-about-lobbyists-influence-on-the-government

    • Rosemary McDonald 9.1

      Don't pay it any mind TC…The Hacked Budget Scandal is front and centre now.

      SSDD.

      Having said that….the Ardern fan club hereabouts should be working overtime to explain this….I'll go make toast.

      • The Chairman 9.1.1

        The Ardern fan club hereabouts should be working overtime to explain this

        It will be interesting to see who will be the first to front and what excuses they will make.

        • Rosemary McDonald 9.1.1.1

          Don't think….

          • The Chairman 9.1.1.1.1

            Seems (going off the lack of response) most here are comfortable with it. And it seems the defenders have opted for the ignoring it tactic in the hope it will fade away.

            By in large we are a strange lot here on the left. If this was National doing this, there would be a major outcry from the left. Yet, when it’s our side that is playing up, the outcry on here seems to be minimal.

            This failure to hold our on side to account plays a leading role in why Labour aren't delivering more and are getting away with pulling crap like this.

  9. Observer Tokoroa 10

    Thanks Chairman

    I am not Comfortable with Lobbyist open sesame deals

    Thanks for alerting me Chairman.

    It would be helpful if all Lobbyists were Licensed and checked By Auditors every six months.

    Be aware of the fast talking PR Lobbyist. !

  10. greywarshark 12

    At present, on just counting through the listed comments available,. Gosman shows with 45 and Sam with 17 I think. This is just two of the RW who infest inflict haunt the site.

  11. Morrissey 13

    Horrifically, this corpse has risen from the grave to haunt us again. One of the most hapless talk radio tragics is still polluting the airwaves

    Peter Williams on Magic Talk, some time after 11 a.m., Wed. 29 May 2019

    I'm sorry to have to confess that, yes, I found myself listening this morning for five or so minutes to Magic Talk. The host Peter Williams wasn't talking much on this occasion; instead the air was filled with the whining, insistent drone of an elderly male caller.

    As soon as I heard him, I instinctively shivered; I'd heard that voice somewhere before. Where was it? It was the captious, hectoring tone of a small town bore holding forth to some captive audience—the long-suffering "missus", perhaps, or a few extremely bored and indulgent "mates"— in some dying lounge bar in some small town, or lecturing a trapped nephew at some godforsaken family barbecue, or …. [insert your most hellish social situation here]. In a short time, he sounded off against teachers, commented, without any special insights, on the prospects of the Black Caps and then capped it off by calling Masterton a "bit of a hick town" and claiming that the CEO of Air New Zealand is Chris Liddell. Peter Williams, to his credit, corrected him: "Chris Luxon."

    I'd heard that caller's voice before, long in the past. Who WAS it? Thankfully, he was eventually stopped from talking any further, because the host intervened:

    PETER WILLIAMS: Okay, we've got to go for a break now. That was Kieran Smyth, "The Man in the Stand".

    The Man in the Stand!!?!?!? Oh, God, no! No, NO-O-O-O-O-O!!!

    Any sensible person who had been humiliated in public like he was in 2003 would not ever have raised his head above the parapet again. But "The Man in the Stand" is clearly not a sensible person….

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/did-any-of-you-see-this-ugly-violent.html

  12. The Chairman 14

    Ardern has pointed any responsibility for the security of the Budget documents to the Treasury, yet Treasury wasn't the only ones to have access to the Budget information. Thus fail to see how she can come to that conclusion. Unless, of course, she is linking the hack as the sole source of National's info.

    • The Chairman 14.1

      With National denying it came from a hack, and with no evidence at this stage showing so, shouldn't Jacinda be taking more responsibility to determine how this major breach occurred instead of washing her hands of it?

  13. The Chairman 15

    Here's a quick thought

    Poverty, mental health, and family violence are all interrelated, poverty being a driver and in some cases a consequence of the latter two. Therefore, increasing benefits is a quick fire way for the Government to help assist all three. Opposed to spending money (and nothing on benefits) addressing the growing aftermath instead of addressing a root cause.

    Hence, we all should be questioning the Government’s acumen.

    • Sam 15.1

      How can you be so sure that if we throw more money at bad it will work this time? If it's the root cause you wish to address why begin at the end users and not at land disposition. So why?

      • The Chairman 15.1.1

        When lack of money (and not budgeting) is the problem, there are two solutions, lower costs (which tend to come via subsidies) or increase incomes.

        It's worked in the past and there is no reason it won't work now.

        Not sure on your question re land disposition, can you clarify?

        • Sam 15.1.1.1

          It needs to be said that the “means of production” is “privately owned” and we know what they will say about productivity gains going into the welfare state. hooray for democracy.

          John Key brought in major PPP reforms, sold the last of the state assets. As Iv mentioned before. Want benefits to rise, I mean we just don't have the State Own Enterprises to be able to fund it otherwise we end up with a situation where the government borrows for operation expenditure.

          So a decent starting point for a comparative study on welfare would be Esping-Andersen's Three Worlds of Welfare Capitalism, which is the kind of broad brush comparative study of Western welfare states it seems you should look into. It's a bit dated, but you should be able to easily move on from there to more specialised texts or direct policy research so to ask more specific and correct questions.

          • The Chairman 15.1.1.1.1

            You'd be surprised how much of the welfare spend actually ends up back in the hands of businesses. Therefore, a benefit increase is good for their returns. Not to mention the productivity gains made from the savings spent on social ills.

            The Government doesn't have to borrow, they have ample options. Plus you forget there will be mass savings as a offsetting result of the initial outlay.

            • Sam 15.1.1.1.1.1

              Yeah, and R+L won't equal benefit increases come the next election cycle because democracy, hooray.

              In Denmark, the only state-owned companies are those that are seen as vital for the state to work, like DSB who runs trains and the different bus companies.

              The main energy company also used to be state-owned and but the government there was heavily criticized for selling that one.

              We have a chance to underwrite our own state finances and economic sovereignty with the pricing of the Carbon and the Pollution, and if some are extra carful to compensate beneficiaries at the same time.

    • Muttonbird 15.2

      Not much point in throwing money at beneficiaries if they live in damp, cold houses because all that extra money goes out the window, literally.

      Better to fix the houses first (something which you have constantly fought against on this site).

      • The Chairman 15.2.1

        Get it right. I'm not against the notion. But against the way the Government has gone about it – i.e. resulting in rent increases. Largely defeating the benefits.

        Re increasing benefits, the Government and their experts all agree it's required and long overdue. Albeit, the Government won't move at pace to get the job done.

        • Muttonbird 15.2.1.1

          I have it right, son. You're not against anything, except Labour and the Greens.

          • The Chairman 15.2.1.1.1

            Don't be paranoid, I'm more left than most of you. But here we are again, talking about me. Funny that.

            • Sam 15.2.1.1.1.1

              Woke, brothers and sisters. Woke.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 15.2.1.1.1.2

              Since we're talking about you (Chair), and since you're "more left than most", I'm going to hazard a guess that many who comment and/or read here are suspicious of your true motives because you seem to target most of your criticism at left-leaning political parties, regardless of whether they are in Government or in opposition.

              And sure, that criticism may often be justified and/or constructive, but even so I reckon folk would feel a little more comfortable if you occasionally put the boot into National.

              You wouldn't even have to do it that often – maybe start by proffering just one National/ACT critique for every four or so of your comments critical of Labour and/or the Greens.

              It's only a suggestion – why not give it a go?

              • Sam

                Only thing I was suspect on Chairmen about was the amount he'd desire to raise benefits. Iv always suspected he'd wish to raise it above the 60% outline in the recent welfare working group. But hey, it's just a suspension, it could be 200% increase.

                It also takes a particular person to be able to concede to the devil what belongs to the devil. What I mean by that is could you name a National or Act policy and give a quick speak about it with out googling it. Love the left or hate the left. No matter how one eyed people are of the left, those who are fixated on the left, are probably left.

                The bit that most normal people miss is about the state is this longing for some old, something blue, something new and something used. In reality the state has two major monopolies today, money and violence. Which is more powerful? I'd argue money. To see why look at who outlasted who in the Cold War. Military hegemony vs Economic hegemony. The economic one is still going.

  14. Not seen it here today but well done egg boy for giving 100k to the cc terror attack victims.

  15. Muttonbird 17

    The number of National staffers and MPs allowed in Opposition's pre-Budget lockup has been slashed.

    The decision "significantly constrains our ability to go through the Budget documents," Amy Adams said.

    This has to be a joke. According to National, they already have the Budget and have been going through the documents for the last two days!

    And as for respecting the lock-up, well, they've shown they can't be trusted with confidential information at all.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12235454

    • ianmac 17.1

      No problem. We could write National's predictable response for them:

      "rubbish, failed, broken promises, poor little kids with rotten teeth, tanks not teeth, misleading, disappointing, same old nothing new …."

  16. ianmac 18

    Sir Michael Cullen's view re leak/hack.

    The former Labour Deputy Prime Minister believed external hackers would also not be interested in the information.

    "It's not quite clear why any 'state actor' would have a particular interest in what our spending was going to be on Thursday."

    "The only people who have an interest in getting at that stuff quickly are either people interested in market advantage or it was political, to embarrass."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113092600/budget-hack-political-games-to-embarrass-the-government–michael-cullen

    • Sam 18.1

      I shake my head at the thought of anyone trying to gain a financial advantage out of trading sensitive information like that. There are so many other ligit ways to make more money than betting on forex or some dumb shit. I mean why wouldn't they just short the U.K. Pound for free??? It makes no sense.

    • Anne 18.2

      Winston Peters’ view and I quote in full:

      Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters, is claiming he knows how National got the ‘leaked’ documents but not revealing details.

      He told reporters what they were saying was wrong – the facts were different.

      “Are you saying the cleaner got hold of stuff, I don’t think so … the facts are different to that. The facts are very, very bad for the National party.”

      “The information came to them in circumstances where the behaviour was totally illegal and they should have known it. That’s all I can say right now … it’s my job to know.”

      He said Bridges was being “thoroughly unethical” and cashed in on the material.

      “He has been found out and made a right fool of himself.”

      Bridges should have called up Minister of Finance Grant Robertson to warn him about the documents and tell him something untoward was going on, Peters said.

      “He’s [Bridges] gone-burger now because of this. He had a chance to show that he had ethical views, that he was fit to be a leader …”

      He had no doubt the police would investigate.

      Live from the Stuff news site.

      The over-the-top press stand-up by Simon B this morning convinces me Winnie’s got it in one.

  17. greywarshark 19

    Vietnam vets new book by Australian about going as a teenager.

    My Vietnam War Dave Morgan NEW Free ShippingCondition: BRAND NEW
    ISBN: 9781922132772
    Author(s): Dave Morgan
    Format: Paperback
    Language: English
    Year: 2014
    Publisher: Big Sky Publishing
    Pages: 296

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/books/nonfiction/history/other/listing-2164086576.htm?rsqid=10ed25c71804446e896a3b15ace548ff-003

    Vietnam War

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