Open mike 29/08/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 29th, 2024 - 92 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

92 comments on “Open mike 29/08/2024 ”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/526409/darleen-tana-files-legal-action-to-prevent-green-party-ousting-them-from-parliament

    This is as per a US saying–a whackadoodle effort alright–trying to stop a main stream political party from holding a constituted forum of its members–imagine trying that on Natzos, Act, NZ First or Labour!

    Tana seems an opportunistic spinner of the first order, and if any Greens had doubts about booting her from Parliament they may change their view now.

    All parties need to pay more attention to candidate selection in terms of their bona fides and what happens for non disclosure etc., the other parties will likely be thinking today–whew…glad it is not us…

    • Mike the Lefty 1.1

      Chloe would probably have got a lot of thumbs up if she had simply filed a notice to sack Tana from parliament without all the duck shoveling. Sometimes the Greens are TOO democratic.

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

    NZFist MP Jones being descriptive about a NZ High Court Judge

    Ministers' public statements about judges amounting to attacks on the judiciary – barristers

    The New Zealand Bar Association said there had been a recent increase in such statements and it was concerned at the risk of political interference in the courts.

    It followed reports that Fisheries Minister Shane Jones called a High Court judge a "communist judge"during a meeting with the seafood industry.

    PM Luxon attempts damage control ?!

    When asked about the comment, ime Minster Christopher Luxon said Jones was "being descriptive, not critical".

    Association president Maria Dew said the comments could not be explained away as "political rhetoric" by politicians "when ministers of the Crown owe duties to uphold the role of judges".

    Dew said New Zealand did not want to follow the example of other countries where political interference saw courts lose their independence.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/526430/ministers-public-statements-about-judges-amounting-to-attacks-on-the-judiciary-barristers

    I never had time for Shane Jones…..a loud mouthed idiot. Proven.

    • Jimmy 2.1

      Is being called a communist an insult?

      • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1

        Not to me…

        Why Jones will get in trouble with this is his inference that the Judge will have a predetermined position due to political belief. Not to mention it is rather unlikely said Judge is a commo anyway! The other reason is he appears to have breached the Cabinet Manual which has seen various Ministers run aground over the years.

        It is just unacceptable that a senior Minister even of ‘tugger’ Jones calibre should criticise the Judiciary who are meant to operate and rule on the evidence and the law.

        • Jimmy 2.1.1.1

          I thought it was common knowledge that the judge used to be a member of a far left party.

          • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1.1.1

            Many students experiment with politics of various stripes and are encouraged to do so. Act was always present at Auckland Uni and they are finally getting called out for the Atlas Network links which now run deep in this CoC Govt.

            Cheryl Gwyn was previously appointed the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security in 2014. A currently committed marxist would have been highly unlikely to be appointed to the State Security Apparatus.

            Masturbation Jones is just being a smarty here, trying to appear more clever than he really is as per usual and already has been slapped down by legal professionals.

            • Ngungukai 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Correct Jones is a right Pull Dicky and is trying to palm off his poorly chosen words.

          • Mike the Lefty 2.1.1.1.2

            You are exercising your deluded fantasies again Jimmy, it's becoming a habit. There are professionals who can help you.

          • Mac1 2.1.1.1.3

            I think that you will find it commonly known that a communist and far left are actually not the same thing. One can be far left and not a communist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left_politics

            • Jimmy 2.1.1.1.3.1

              Yes far left can be further left than communism.
              “some scholars consider it to be the left of communist parties,”

              • Mac1

                If you look at the political spectrum from the point of view of two axes, then you'll find that fascism and communism can be both found on the authoritarian end of one axis- the social axis, the other being the economic axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass

                That is one reason why Shane Jones is wrong to have been so 'descriptive'.

                Take the political compass test yourself, Jimmy, and see where you stand. It's genuinely interesting.

      • Mike the Lefty 2.1.2

        Not to a communist.

    • Mac1 2.2

      NZ First politicians certainly have form for political insults such as 'woke' and 'communist'. To answer Jimmy above at 2.1, yes it is when to insult is the intention.

      Mind you, reading the Press front page article this morning, "Ecan refuses Brown's request", I found myself saying. "He's a young, born-again prat". Purely descriptive…….

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.3

      PM Luxon has sure been running around in NACT1 Coalition damage control lately. IMO he will be finding much more damage to come.

      Prime Minister defends Peters' climate comments

      Peters returned from Tonga on Tuesday night after attending the Pacific Islands' Forum – but not before making comments the prime minister had to clean up.

      Peters raised eyebrows when asked if he believed in climate change in Tonga on Tuesday.

      And this is quite…surreal. Must have been borderline hilarious to hear it in Parliament..

      Peters was in the hot seat, answering questions on behalf of Luxon as acting prime minister.

      "Why does the prime minister believe that it's okay for the minister of foreign affairs to travel to the Pacific and question the science of climate change in front of leaders who, in some cases, are finding their countries literally sinking into the ocean?" Labour leader Chris Hipkins asked.

      "Does he agree with comments from former Tuavalu Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga who said, when speaking about this government's planned reversal of the oil and gas ban, 'don't forget that whatever you are going to do, it is going to increase greenhouse gas emissions, which are going to sink the islands of Tuvalu and kill the people'," Greens co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick asked.

      Peters was unapologetic in the House before backing away from the comments when asked if he believed humans had a role in climate change.

      Fark…Peters acting PM answering for his Leader PM Luxon?! Insanity

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/526441/prime-minister-defends-peters-climate-comments

    • Mikey 2.4

      So, is Luxie backing Shane's claim that the judge is communist?

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.4.1

        King.. PM Luxon…is away. However, he wishes it to be known, that he really really wishes he didnt need NZFirst..or ACT.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 2.4.2

        So, is Luxie backing Shane's claim that the judge is communist?

        Even if Cluxon did back Shame's claim, who cares what self-serving fascists say – that's just a bit of banter by the way.

    • Mike the Lefty 2.5

      I have a "description" for Shane Jones.

      "Pork barrel".

      Under National, he doesn't even care to hide it.

  3. Jimmy 3

    Darleen Tana really being a thorn in the side of the Greens. Surely she cannot expect a court to rule that a party she is no longer a member of are not allowed to meet?

    Seems ridiculous to me.

    Law expert Andrew Geddis discusses Darleen Tana’s decision to take the Green Party to court – NZ Herald

    And who is paying Darleen's legal costs? I thought she was broke?

    Greens need to get on and use the waka jumping (even though they are against that law) to get rid of her asap.

    • Belladonna 3.1

      And who is paying Darleen's legal costs? I thought she was broke?

      Suspect we are…. legal aid.

      • Jimmy 3.1.1

        Oh great! What a waste of money. I should have known.

      • Matiri 3.1.2

        Legal Aid is considered a loan though but I'd say the chances of her paying it back are rather low.

        • Anne 3.1.2.1

          No disrespect to the Greens, but it goes to show that excessive entitlement exists in all political parties. It's just they are more numerous among the right leaning parties. Unfortunately, they are also more likely to get away with it because we expect it of them.

      • Jimmy 3.1.3

        Darleen 1; Greens Nil

        No meeting this weekend due to Tana.

        Darleen Tana still a MP as Green Party puts waka jumping meeting on hold | Stuff

        • Obtrectator 3.1.3.1

          It's this sort of caper that causes people to lose faith in the legal system. Cosy little stitch-ups between opposing sets of lawyers. Whatever's going on here may be the law, but it sure ain't justice.

          (PS: wonder if it's worth trying to abort a meeting of my local council next time a double-digit rates increase is on the agenda?)

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.4

        Suspect we are…. legal aid.

        Perhaps you can follow up, and inform us when you actually have any evidence wink

        she is legally entitle to some legal aid.?

        or is she?

        https://goodoil.news/good-oil-general-debate-72/

        Apologies for the link to a site "founded by Cam Slater, a multi-award winning blogger and journalist".

        • Belladonna 3.1.4.1

          Goodness, you do seem to be fascinated by right wing sites.

          Are you implying that someone other than legal aid is funding Tana's appeal? Who would that be? Perhaps you could follow up, and find out….

          • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.4.1.1

            Goodness, you do seem to be fascinated by right wing sites.

            On the contrary, I find them repugnant – normally wouldn't go there, honest smiley

            It's just that a quick Google search found your reply to Jiminy's questions @3 also addressed a couple of questions posted on 'Slater's site' earlier today.

            Are you implying that someone other than legal aid is funding Tana's appeal?

            No, that’s an innocent misintepretation of my comment @3.1.4 – I was asking about your evidence.

            … inform us when you actually have any evidence smiley

            https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-26-08-2024/#comment-2009433

            Any evidence yet to support your unoriginal reckon that "legal aid is funding Tana's appeal"?

            • Belladonna 3.1.4.1.1.1

              My reckon is original – I certainly haven't been reviewing Kiwiblog lately. And I also can't help it if you find trawling Kiwiblog amusing. It hardly seems that you find it repugnant, since you seem to visit so frequently.

              I did use the word 'suspect' – one factor is that her lawyer of record is on the legal aid register.

              Now, your evidence the someone else is funding Tana's appeal? I can hardly wait for your high quality findings.

      • adam 3.1.5

        Suspect we are…. legal aid.

        Got proof? Or are you trolling again?

        • aj 3.1.5.1

          If it's not legal aid, then follow the money. Which side of politics benefits most from drawing out this debacle.

          Just saying.

          • Muttonbird 3.1.5.1.1

            Oh, yes. This is a side show for sure. All the trolls here are obsessed with it and the government will be quite happy for it to occupy the news to distract from their horror handling all things governance and economy.

            NZ going backwards at a great rate on all measures right now.

            • gsays 3.1.5.1.1.1

              In regards going backwards and right win distractions, I think you would enjoy Hooten's efforts on The Working Group.

              joe linked to it below.

              • Muttonbird

                Thanks, I can't see the video on any link there but we know that Damien Grant a criminal and has done prison time for fraud.

                He reminds me of a drunk, molesting uncle who says and does really inappropriate things, while believing he’s the most clever in the room. But he knows he’s a wrong ‘un, so self-depreciates hard in order to invite sympathy and mitigate any scrutiny.

        • Belladonna 3.1.5.2

          You seem unfamiliar with the word 'suspect'
          Try a dictionary.

          • adam 3.1.5.2.1

            So you're trolling then.

            • Belladonna 3.1.5.2.1.1

              No, sunshine – I leave that to you.

              • Muttonbird

                So, no evidence? You ask for it all the time but refuse to provide it when asked.

                Sums you up.

                • Belladonna

                  Gave you indicative evidence. If you don't like it, you're free to suggest an alternative.

                  That is what debate is.

                  You do realize the cost of a High Court action?

                  https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/01/25/devika-dhir-the-insurmountable-147725-cost-to-fight-your-corner-in-court/

                  If you're expecting that I have copies of Tana's legal bills, I suggest that the level of proof that you seem to require would prevent all commentary on TS.

                  Meanwhile – you seem to feel free to imply that someone, whose politics you dislike, is both alcoholic and a child predator – entirely fact-free, as far as I can see.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-29-08-2024/#comment-2009655

                  [In your Newsroom link there’s a whole section on eligibility for legal aid. Why don’t you check out the eligibility criteria for receiving legal aid in NZ and report back here on whether you still think Darleen Tana is eligible. You’re in Pre-Mod until then – Incognito]

                  • Muttonbird

                    Yeah no proof, or even rudimentary evidence, as I expected.

                    On Damien Grant: he has been to prison, so that is some description of his moral and ethical base. Not good!

                    But a bigger question is why, as a self-described centrist, do you defend far right commenters here so often?

                    • Belladonna

                      Unless he's been to prison for those crimes, your comment is actionable.

                      Mind you – it gives us a horrific insight into your own family life… since "He reminds me of a drunk, molesting uncle"
                      My sympathies.

                    • weka []

                      stop flaming. Clearly MB was making a comparison to show character. He wasn’t saying DG is a drunk paedophile.

                    • Muttonbird

                      Oh dear, the mask slips when you are caught out. My sympathies.

                      Fairly sure the referencing of and intimating about a commenter’s family situation on this site is frowned upon here. We shall see.

                    • weka []

                      you need to stop flaming as well.

                  • Incognito

                    Mod note

                  • Belladonna

                    Thanks for an actual response on the topic, Incognito.
                    The original article didn't give the information, however looking at the NZ Legal service regulations would seem to indicate that Tana's parliamentary salary as an MP would put her over the limit.
                    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2011/0144/latest/DLM3743601.html?src=qs

                    If this is the case, then my suspicion was unjustified.

                    • Incognito

                      Thank you. There were clear hints in the Newsroom article regarding eligibility for legal aid in NZ. Given the discussion thread here on TS I’d have thought this would have been a prompt and trigger some fact-checking before continuing wasting more time on increasingly flaming comments from all involved.

    • Ad 3.2

      How's that special Greens kaupapa working out?

      Feb. Allegations

      March. Tana suspended. Independent MP.

      July. Investigation summary released

      August. Green AGM. No action except membership walkout.

      Proposed special meeting. Court upheld to delay this, by agreement.

      September 12 Judicial review sought by Tana.

      All of above because Green caucus don't want to make a decision.

      • Dennis Frank 3.2.1

        Slowly and carefully. It's important to simulate progressive action whenever possible – particularly when real parliamentary opposition seems an infeasible stance.

        Quite clever, given that Labour still hasn't figured out what to do. The Left Greens inevitably have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the consensus process – their compulsive need to grandstand whenever possible will always defer any reasonable suggestion that its time to be constructive and responsible.

        Dead rat munchies still haven't become their favoured repast. I suspect that handing Winston a moral victory is viewed as a loathsome prospect…

        • gsays 3.2.1.1

          "Dead rat munchies still haven't become their favoured repast. I suspect that handing Winston a moral victory is viewed as a loathsome prospect…"

          For sure, being principled folk 'n' all them rats aren't tasty.

          But… acknowledging other principles. Tana's actions, exploiting the rules with vulnerable migrant workers then causing a ruccus in a former employee's new place of work surely trump any gloating Peters may enjoy.

      • weka 3.2.2

        All of above because Green caucus don't want to make a decision.

        Still getting it wrong Ad. It's not the caucus' decision.

        • gsays 3.2.2.1

          While on the face of it the canvassing of members seems honourable, my reckons say you have a caucus and or a leadership group for a reason.

          From the outside, the lack of leadership is frustrating akin to an infant's tanty in a supermarket with a parent that indulges it.

          Oblivious to the discomfort of the others in the vacinity.

  4. Hunter Thompson II 4

    "“I want the private sector to invest here, because they are confident in the pipeline and are enabled to get on with it by an efficient and fair consenting system,”

    [From speech by Chris Bishop MP in a Building Nations event held 28 August].

    Bishop was talking about the government's proposed National Infrastructure Plan.

    Is this a return to the old Ministry of Works, which acted as a law unto itself?

    As for the "efficient and fair consenting system", that may well copy the Queenstown approach and be based on one word: "Yes".

  5. SPC 5

    Poor Shane Jones, he is inarticulate in stating the obvious

    1.the gentailers were set up to be driven by profit motive by National and that included a spot market – which is high price whenever there is a dry and calm year.

    2.he wants a business subsidy price for New Zealand industry as per Comalco.

    But the thing is Comalco has set up with its own hydro supply arrangement and agrees to reduce production in low supply years.

    The business that closed had to have an arrangement not to operate in 1992-2024 like years to get a cheaper power deal.

    3.He is an apologist for carbon and this is not the future.

    The sort of arrangements made with NZ Steel – reducing carbon use.

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz%E2%80%99s-biggest-ever-emissions-reduction-project-hits-milestone

    Battery storage

    https://contact.co.nz/aboutus/our-story/our-projects/glenbrook-battery

    Otherwise deals with Methanex.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/526151/what-would-happen-to-jobs-and-emissions-if-methanex-left-new-zealand

    The future is solar, a wind farm off Taranaki and battery storage

    Genesis Energy said it planned to use profits from the Kupe gas field to support a $1.1 billion programme to build new renewable generation and grid-scale battery storage between now and 2030.

    As part of a strategic reset, dubbed “Gen35″, investment will be made into solar, grid scale battery storage and wind that will help grow Genesis’ renewable portfolio to around 8300 gigawatt hours (GWh), the company – 51 per cent owned by the Government – said.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/genesis-energy-to-use-kupe-profits-for-strategic-reset/PDPED7IRJNHHJLGDCI2N6OOFZE/

    • Ad 5.1

      Anyone want to stretch their legs and write a new energy policy for NZ?

      • SPC 5.1.1

        The Meridian boss says they plan to use hydro as back-up and have solar and wind as primary. Hydro can be turned on and off quickly and in other countries "pump storage" is that used for peaking.

        A lot more solar on the rooftop’s of homes and business … and for some arrays on sections.

        And a range of options/power deals for large business operations.

        Meridian wanted to move towards the majority of electricity being produced by solar and wind so the hydro lakes could become the back-up storage option, he said.

        “It’s a very competitive market. And if we don’t build our next most viable project whether it be wind or solar then someone else will.

        “Over time all the modelling suggests if we deploy more renewables in this country, energy prices will come down.”

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/challenge-to-meridians-claim-power-bills-taking-less-of-household-spending/F2UCXH4UTBA2VJZLQWFYIGXX44/

      • Shanreagh 5.1.2

        Anyone want to stretch their legs and write a new energy policy for NZ?

        I wiggled my little toe and have to say my customer ie people focussed policy would revolve around renationalising the energy gentailers, ensuring that increases to prices were no more than an agreed to way of fixng the cost of living%. perhaps a freeze first, then a fair means of increases with the extremely large clobbering stick being the renationalising. That is at the customer level

        I'd have to give it more thought to 'stretch' a macro energy policy.

        But can we all not have a think and write our wishlist here?

        • Dennis Frank 5.1.2.1

          can we all not have a think and write our wishlist here?

          Yeah, the old notion of an informed citizenry. Most would wish for politicians who can do sensible decision-making. Yet we could let the pols default to laziness on this point since everyone seems to have gotten sucked into market thinking during the past 40 years. Market failure is therefore hard to think about.

          Notice how reportage of big capitalist ventures closing down due to high electrical prices has been carefully evasive: pointing out that this effect is a symptom of market failure must have seemed too much like truth-telling to the journos.

          Neither the left nor the right want to face the fact either: they are guilty of making it happen via left/right collusion. How many players in the electricity game make a cartel inevitable? Media ought to feature economists chanting in unison "Question too hard. We dumb – can't even think of it. Like slippery eel."

        • gsays 5.1.2.2

          I'd vote for yr 2nd paragraph.

          Couple that with a decentralising (not very left wing, I know) of power supply ie rooftop solar for new builds and retrofit on existing and we are 3/4s of the way there.

          I've posted this link a coupla days ago but this is a professor and he covers it off way more competently than me. A worthwhile 27 mins.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018953071/electrification-could-save-nz-95-billion-by-2040-report

  6. tsmithfield 6

    Ginny Anderson seemed to be caught out by a journalist actually doing research on TVNZ news last night.

    She was comparing figures for police patrols for June with December figures and claimed that the number of police patrols under National had dropped. However, it was pointed out to her that patrol figures traditionally spike in December due to seasonality factors. So, it did actually appear that she was cherry picking data to suit her claim.

    The journalist pointed out when month to month comparisons (e.g. June 23 with June 24) were considered, then patrols had increased consistently month by month. And had increased by 10% for the year to date compared to the previous year (according to police figures).

    Undeterred by facts, Ginny continued to maintain her position to the point of incredulity.

    It turned out to be a bit of an own goal IMO because the net effect was to demonstrate that police patrols had gone up under National which was the opposite to what Ginny had claimed.

    Hipkins doubled down, by backing Anderson’s statement, despite the inconvenient facts. Perhaps it was considered too damaging to consider the alternative of admitting getting something wrong.

    From a non-political perspective, it is good to see journalists actually doing their job rather than just blindly accepting what they are told. Perhaps politicians from all sides of the fence will be a bit more careful and accurate with their claims if they know they will likely be called out in public.

    • bwaghorn 6.1

      I noted that to , maybe stuff tv3 nees might be worth watching,

    • newsense 6.2

      Well that’s a pity.

      But tbh it was too late.

      I heard the message on the news yesterday. I came here to say Labour is doing well catching out government incompetence.

      I’ve seen a few different Labour shadow ministers doing good work. This is how governments fall. Not through pointing out their moral failings, but through pointing out their incompetence and failure.

      As the kids say tldr. There are fewer police patrols! I heard it yesterday. Tut tut.

      • Jimmy 6.2.1

        Unfortunately the facts tripped Ginny up. She needs to up her game. Being caught out and having to have your leader back you up knowing it is wrong is embarrassing. Next she will be coming out to say Mark Mitchell is all talk and no action, then next minute…….

        Every member of Christchurch Comancheros chapter arrested | Stuff

        • Mac1 6.2.1.1

          Jimmy, the Comancheros raid was to aid the provision of housing, according to National MP Dan Bidois. 🙂 See today's The Standard post https://thestandard.org.nz/nationals-solution-to-the-housing-crisis/

        • Ad 6.2.1.2

          Great stuff NZPolice!

          More!

          • SPC 6.2.1.2.1

            The 501's Oz caught were always going to be on that path.

            Taking over another gangs base to supply drugs … not subtle.

            Now there is a case to be made that any gang formed overseas and caught operating illegally here is banned.

            The days of the Comancheros and HA (work in snappier clothing than Gareth Morgan and motor bike club at weekends).

        • newsense 6.2.1.3

          She’s just playing your game, bud.
          Remember how crime was wildly out of control? Miraculously it was all solved at the ballot box and by cashing some people on the outside.

          Now foot patrols are down. That’s what we’re hearing. All the fact checks do is repeat the original story that foot patrols are down.

    • Anne 6.3

      Yes. I saw that item and wondered what the hell had happened. I suspect a Labour Party researcher gave her the wrong figures. If correct, I wouldn't like to be them today.

      The moral of the story. Never take figures given to you at face value. Do your own checking before releasing them.

      • tsmithfield 6.3.1

        I think this is just a symptom of a lazy media. If they can't be bothered fact checking and just parrot whatever they are told, then of course politicians will spin and obsfuscate as much as the can.

        A lot more fact checking from journalists so far as I am concerned.

  7. newsense 7

    Perceptions of strength and consistency are important for governments.

    Luxon comes as a weak and inconsistent character.

    But for example the way the outrageous Costello behaviour will hurt them is if the opposition can paint the PM as not knowing what is going on and being too weak to be able to fire non-National ministers.

    The subservience to the tobacco industry and the lying doesn’t help. But the appearance of weak and inconsistent leadership is what will change the polls.

  8. joe90 8

    Holy relics are back!

    /

    .

    Donald Trump announced on Tuesday that he is selling a new collection of digital trading cards, and that supporters who buy 15 or more cards will receive a physical card adorned with a piece of the suit he wore for the presidential debate against Joe Biden in June.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/27/trump-debate-suit-fundraising

    • gsays 10.1

      Thanks for the tip joe.

      Grant got owned, I haven't seen Hooten that enthused. Spectacular.

      Brash doesn't believe what he says, Hobson's Pledge is communist, the inflammatory behaviour of Seymour and Brash.
      The idea that words just tumble from Luxon’s mouth.

      I haven’t felt sorry for an economist like I did for Brad Olsen.

      Hooten is a very clever orator.

    • adam 10.2

      Taken down. Video is down.