Open mike 30/04/2024

54 comments on “Open mike 30/04/2024 ”

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1. SPC 1

   30 April 2024 at 8:00 am

   Act’s David Seymour welcomed the result, despite the one-point drop. He said 7 per cent would have been a dream in previous years.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/latest-political-poll-has-drop-in-support-for-coalition-luxon-talks-to-hosking/FWKSE7RPMZESXMQP25KNIHGDZU/

   It received 6.1% in the first MMP election in 1996. 7.01% in 1999. 7.14% in 2002.

   The wilderness years were 2005-2017.

   7.5% 2020 8.64% 2023 peak..
   • Bearded Git 1.1

     30 April 2024 at 8:43 am

     Very interesting that yesterday's poll would put Lab/Gr/TPM back in power after just 6 months of this government.

     Luxon and Seymour’s whole "strategy" has been to say (every time they open their mouths) that the last government was rubbish; the poll shows that this approach has failed abjectly.

     This leaves Luxon with nowhere to go; it's a one-term government.
     • KJT 1.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 11:43 am

       National is following a well worn track.

       Enact your least popular and most socially damaging policies as soon as possible.

       In the hope that National voters, who obviously have the long term memory of a goldfish, have forgotten them by the next election.

       Where you can dangle a few carrots and some more bullshit about being "economic fixers" to get power again.
       • Cricklewood 1.1.1.1

         30 April 2024 at 5:10 pm

         Yep, its a pretty good stratergy really. Especially if media get bored and move to who's going to replace Hipkins in 12 – 18 months time.
2. SPC 2

   30 April 2024 at 8:27 am

   New Zealand has been before the United Nations Human Rights Council (first time since 2019)

   Most countries that commented during the session recommended New Zealand do more to reduce health, education and justice inequities for Māori.

   Germany suggested incorporating human rights and the Treaty of Waitangi into a written constitution; Australia recommended that businesses be made to report on gender pay gaps; and the United Kingdom recommended adopting modern slavery legislation for businesses with international supply chains.

   The Justice Minister talked about law and order plans.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/04/universal-periodic-review-germany-suggests-new-zealand-put-treaty-into-written-constitution.html
   • Dolomedes III 2.1

     30 April 2024 at 11:36 am

     The “equity” framing adopted by the UNHRC is seriously flawed. Here’s an example of why this is so. The Tertiary Education Commission demanded that universities reduce disparities in pass rates between Maaori/Pasifika and other students. Let's imagine next year pass rates of both Maaori/Pasifika and other students increase by 5 %, and let's assume this is not due to dumbing down or to marking the work of Maaori & Pasifika students more leniently. Surely this is a great result. Not according to the "equity" framing, because the disparity is still there.

     The false north of "equity" shows how ideologically captured the United Nations Human Rights Council is.
     • SPC 2.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 11:48 am

       Noticing inequity, is not the same thing as calling for equity of outcome.

       It is simply asking that the expectations of human rights for all, be be more manifest for the indigenous population.

       https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/universal-declaration-of-human-rights/
       • Dolomedes III 2.1.1.1

         30 April 2024 at 12:37 pm

         Now you wouldn't be engaging in a bit of motte-and-bailey would you, SPC? You report a recommendation that "New Zealand do more to reduce health, education and justice inequities for Māori."

         When challenged about the flawed (in)equity framing, you retreat to "nobody is calling for equality of outcome". But I never claimed the UNHRC did call for equality of outcome.

         As for this mouthful:

         "It is simply asking that the expectations of human rights for all, be be more manifest for the indigenous population."

         What exactly does that mean, in plain English?
         • SPC 2.1.1.1.1

           30 April 2024 at 5:02 pm

           It is if you had not written this.

           The false north of "equity" shows how ideologically captured the United Nations Human Rights Council is.

           Yet there it is.

           And … I guess you have no awareness of debate about poverty (income and housing human rights) having any impact on education, health outcomes and rates of imprisonment – cited by Germany.
           • Dolomedes III 2.1.1.1.1.1

             30 April 2024 at 5:40 pm

             Of course I'm aware that poverty impacts educational, health and judicial incomes. Do you really think that’s news to anyone? But that's of no relevance to my point that "equity" is a false north. What's needed is better outcomes for Maaori, not "equity".
     • AB 2.1.2

       30 April 2024 at 1:11 pm

       Let's imagine next year pass rates of both Maaori/Pasifika and other students increase by 5 %, and let's assume this is not due to dumbing down or to marking the work of Maaori & Pasifika students more leniently. Surely this is a great result. Not according to the "equity" framing, because the disparity is still there.

       Indeed, the disparity would still be there – and it needs an explanation. And if one recognises that at a population level all groups, sub-groups and races of modern humans are biologically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually pretty much the same, then an explanation is very important. If someone doesn't believe that, we have an ugly and entirely deserved name for them beginning with 'r'.

       So all the UN is doing is asking for population-level inequity of outcomes to be examined, plausible explanations found for it and action taken to minimise it. These actions would probably amount to creating something approaching genuine equality of opportunity, such as by eliminating child and youth poverty in Maori families.

       Your sleight of hand here is to ignore that the UN is talking about population-level inequity of outcomes, not individual inequity of outcomes. I find right-wing intellectual dishonesty quite unpleasant.
       • Dolomedes III 2.1.2.1

         30 April 2024 at 2:39 pm

         Spare me your santimoniousness. I did no such thing. I was talking about population-level inequality.

         The UNHRC's statement contributes nothing of utility – do they imagine that NZ governments do not attempt to improve Maaori outcomes? What practical steps would you take to lift Maaori outcomes. How exactly would you "eliminate child and youth poverty in Maaori families"? Grandstanding about it is so easy.

         And your framing of demographic disparities is dogmatic. If someone doesn't believe what you claim to believe, you're ready to clobber them with the "r" word.You state "all groups, sub-groups and races of modern humans are biologically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually pretty much the same"? Is your "pretty much" a recognition that there might be *some* differences in aptitudes between different ethnic groups? East Asians consistently outperform everybody else in subjects like maths – is this genetic, or cultural, or a bit of both? Has the evolutionary history of East Asians for some reason selected for traits that make them good at maths?

         So what about cultural influences on inequalities of outcome across groups? There are so many examples, but perhaps the best known is the success of Jews in Europe and North America. Despite facing discrimination and even persecution, Jews became on average wealthier than most of the rest of the population. A less well-known example is Christian Greeks under the Ottoman Empire. Despite facing legal, financial and political discrimination, Greeks often became wealthier than their Muslim Turk counterparts, possibly reflecting their inheritance of the importance the Byzantines attached to education. In a NZ context, who would deny the damage done to Maaori by the history of dispossession and discrimination? But could there some aspects of Maaori culture that hold Maaori back in the 21st century? If we are serious about improving Maaori outcomes, we need to be open-minded, not dogmatic.
         • tWig 2.1.2.1.1

           30 April 2024 at 3:34 pm

           And that's the iniquity of colonialism, as an invading coloniser culture which runs down opportunities while economically exploiting indigenous people. In 1880, by government policy, Maori were actively discouraged from tertiary education in academic subjects in 1880, and punished for use of Te Reo Maori in schooling, ie subliminal reinforcement that Maori culture is not a culture of literacy. Maori literacy was higher than in colonising Europeans for a large part of the 1800's.

           https://oag.parliament.nz/2012/education-for-maori/part3.htm

           1880	Inspector of Schools releases a Native School Code. Te Aute College produces first Māori graduates in the 1880s, but the College comes under pressure to abandon the academic curriculum and teach agriculture instead.
           1903	Nationwide policy to impose a ban on (or discourage) te reo being spoken in the playground. A wide range of punishments used against children who speak te reo at school (including corporal punishment).
         • tWig 2.1.2.1.2

           30 April 2024 at 3:53 pm

           Perhaps the iniquity of coloniser policy has something to do with Maori educational outcomes today. Maori in the mid-1800s were a literate community, with high rates of literacy, and Maori language press. According to the Office of the Auditor General

           • 1862 Government expectations of Māori are not high. School inspector reports to the House of Representatives that "a refined education or high mental culture" would be inappropriate for Māori because "they are better calculated by nature to get their living by manual than by mental labour".
           • Te Aute College produces first Māori graduates in the 1880s, but the College comes under pressure to abandon the academic curriculum and teach agriculture instead.
           • In 1905, speaking Te Reo Maori is banned in schools, reinforcing the idea that English is the language of literacy and learning.

           NZ government policy has clearly had an intergenerational effect on Maori attitudes to school and schooling; where the whole structure of Maori access to education has been a tool of colonisation.
         • SPC 2.1.2.1.3

           30 April 2024 at 5:08 pm

           What is this Maaori affectation supposed to indicate? Pedantic argument leavened with Kiwiblog accent?
3. ianmac 3

   30 April 2024 at 8:40 am

   Perhaps we should consider the implication of a planned new toilet in San Francisco.

   Planned cost $1.7 million. Multiple agencies to be consulted. Months in the process.

   Rethink replan cost $200 thousand.

   Perhaps that is where Bishop got his idea.

   https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/28/opinion/san-francisco-public-toilet.html?campaign_id=39&emc=edit_ty_20240429&instance_id=121825&nl=opinion-today&regi_id=152998220&segment_id=165098&te=1&user_id=65688721054d4589080e2a07334bd88a
   • weka 3.1

     30 April 2024 at 8:45 am

     which Bishop and what idea? Google isn't being much help.
     • ianmac 3.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 11:37 am

       I think that Bishop's speeches take aim at the RMA and how much cost is added to projects because of RMA requirements. Hence the Legislation for Fast Tracking.
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         30 April 2024 at 2:53 pm

         👍
4. SPC 4

   30 April 2024 at 8:46 am

   No sign of a slowdown in rent increases under the new government.

   Rental prices have hit an all time high, online marketplace Trade Me says.

   Properties in the website's rental index have risen by an average of $50 in the last year, bringing the national median rental price to $650.

   "While it's not the biggest annual increase we've ever seen, it is unusual to see it this high in March,"

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/515532/rents-at-an-all-time-high-trade-me-index-shows

   Going up under the new government, PT cost.

   The government's public transport subsidies are coming to an end – but how much fares will rise depends on where you are in the country.

   The Community Connect fare subsidy meant children aged 5 to 12 travelled free and those aged 13-24 got half-price fares.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/515503/public-transport-subsidies-are-ending-here-s-how-much-fares-will-rise
   • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1

     30 April 2024 at 1:22 pm

     Bbut what might rents be without the "downward pressure" of our CoC govt's actions?

     https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2404/S00401/record-breaking-rents-hit-all-time-high-in-march.htm

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/515446/interest-rate-cuts-might-have-to-wait-until-2025-economist
     • Nic the NZer 4.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 3:01 pm

       One of the significant pressures on rental inflation is lifts in the OCR keeping interest rates up. The RBNZ needs to have a good handle on how much OCR policy might be a reaction to previous OCR policy rather than unanticipated inflation pressures.
5. Mike the Lefty 5

   30 April 2024 at 10:15 am

   I heard an interesting item on RNZ Checkpoint yesterday.

   It was a farmer opposing the government's plan to reintroduce live animal exports. He was Waikato farmer Chris Falconer, who confirmed he had also signed the national petition against it

   Under questioning he admitted he had taken some heat from fellow farmers on this issue.

   When asked by Lisa Owen if he thought Federated Farmers (who are pushing for live exports) was the voice of farmers he said they represent the members, they do not represent farmers.

   "They do not represent farmers".

   That is an extraordinary statement which contradicts pretty much everything we are led to believe about the farming and agricultural sector. FF always purports to be THE voice of farmers, but perhaps things are not quite as they seem.

   Perhaps there are others who are sick and tired of FF being the subservient mouthpiece of the National Party and if so, power to them.
   • Belladonna 5.1

     30 April 2024 at 11:20 am

     FF always purports to be THE voice of farmers, but perhaps things are not quite as they seem.

     No organization is monolithic. The PSA doesn't represent the views of every single member on every single issue it comments on. Nor does Greenpeace, or the RSA or even the PPTA.

     I can't see any reason why FF would be expected to be different. *Some* farmers, no doubt, disagree with their policy on any given issue.

     What they do represent is the general consensus of the majority of the membership. Because, if they don't, then they get removed from the leadership role by the members.
     • Kat 5.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 2:52 pm

       When asked by Lisa Owen if he thought Federated Farmers (who are pushing for live exports) was the voice of farmers he said they represent the members, they do not represent farmers.

       "They do not represent farmers"

       Obviously there are FF members who are farmers and farmers who are not FF members. Perhaps the FF now have more than enough cracks to let enough light in that will see it eventually evolve out of meddling in politics.
       • Belladonna 5.1.1.1

         30 April 2024 at 3:04 pm

         Perhaps you could say the same about the PSA or the PTFA.
         Clearly there are civil servants who are not members of the PSA, and teachers who are not members of the PTFA. Should those organisations then "evolve out of meddling in politics"?

         All organizations speak on behalf of their members…..
         • Kat 5.1.1.1.1

           30 April 2024 at 3:10 pm

           There is a difference between speaking on behalf of members and meddling especially in politics at a national level…..
           • Belladonna 5.1.1.1.1.1

             30 April 2024 at 4:24 pm

             A statement equally true of the PSA and PPTA.

             And you can hardly argue that the export of sheep isn’t a matter affecting their membership. It’s not like they’re commenting on education policy, or on state housing.
             • Kat …

               30 April 2024 at 7:51 pm

               I would put it you that it is not equally true of the PSA or PTFA, but go ahead and do your best to show otherwise…..here is a little snap shot of history that shows the beginnings and just how powerful and influential FF have been in NZ politics…….hopefully that may be waning as more 'farmers' become more socially and environmentally aware……

               Throughout the federation and union’s history there has been a significant involvement in politics…………………..

               https://www.fedfarm.org.nz/FFPublic/FFPublic/about/Our_History.aspx?hkey=f6664b92-90af-410b-befa-82c855f0b4b4

               Following their crushing defeat by the Labour Party in the 1935 general election, the remnants of the United–Reform coalition government met in Wellington on 13–14 May 1936 to establish a new ‘anti-socialist’ party.

               The conference in the Dominion Farmers’ Institute Building was attended by 11 members of the Dominion Executive of the National Political Federation (the body that had run United–Reform’s 1935 campaign), 232 delegates from around the country, representatives of women’s and youth organisations, and most of the re-elected anti-Labour MPs. The party was named the New Zealand National Party to signal a clean break with United and Reform

               Federated Farmers have a long history of not just representing farmers interests but being directly involved in politics at the executive level.

               The most recent example of unabashed support for a change of govt, not that they had any influence on members or the electorate……cough cough wink wink nudge nudge say no more………

               https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/500252/farmers-welcome-national-act-victory-confidence-never-been-so-low
6. aj 6

   30 April 2024 at 10:20 am

   An embattled minister is being asked to reveal her plan for New Zealand’s polytechnics as senior leaders continue to jump ship and staff struggle with uncertainty

   https://www.odt.co.nz/

   Will she screw this up as well, she has form, or has she learnt anything?
   • Belladonna 6.1

     30 April 2024 at 4:32 pm

     TBH it's difficult to see how the polytech sector could be more screwed up. The amalgamation (in practice) turned into a rolling sequence of disasters. Whether they unpick this, and attempt to revert back to the status quo ante, or launch a new structural reform – won't change that reality. The best staff have already left. The morale is rock bottom.

     Not to say I wouldn’t like to see the new plans (I would), but Ministerial guidance isn’t a magic wand to fix the current disaster.
   • Traveller 6.2

     30 April 2024 at 6:12 pm

     That link is to the ODT, not to the actual article you quote from. I have tried searching on that text on the ODT home page and can't find the article. Can you link to it please?

     I agree with Belladonna below – the merger has been a 'rolling sequence of disasters'.

     Damning report reveals financial meltdown at new mega polytech Te Pūkenga | Stuff

     Newshub Nation: National polytechnic merger Te Pūkenga buckling as it asks for more money and fails students, staff | Newshub
     • aj 6.2.1

       30 April 2024 at 6:18 pm

       https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/pressure-minister-over-polytechs-plan

       Subscriber only.
       • Traveller 6.2.1.1

         30 April 2024 at 6:30 pm

         
7. joe90 7

   30 April 2024 at 11:17 am

   The CoC in a nutshell.

   
   • joe90 7.1

     30 April 2024 at 11:53 am

     Next up, a politruk in every school.

     /

     Deborah Russell MP

     @BeeFaerie

     They're going to have cellphone commissars! "Any school not putting in place the new ban on phones will face a visit from the Education Review Office, Education Minister Erica Stanford says."

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/515475/watch-prime-minister-education-minister-reveal-education-priorities

     https://twitter.com/BeeFaerie/status/1784814319596978438
     • ianmac 7.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 12:21 pm

       I bet ERO would be very pissed to be instructed to be sent to a school because they were not following the the no-phone rule. And the punishment such a crime will be….?
       • Mike the Lefty 7.1.1.1

         30 April 2024 at 12:31 pm

         I don't disagree with a policy of no cellphones in classrooms per se, i just think that it should be up to the schools, school boards and parents to make their own policies as to their school's particular needs.

         Imagine the outrage if it had been the Labour government doing this

         The teachers a decade ago would never had stood for this kind of meddling in the classroom.

         How times have changed.
         • alwyn 7.1.1.1.1

           30 April 2024 at 1:46 pm

           "Imagine the outrage if it had been the Labour government doing this".

           What would have happened? I think that Simon and Garfunkel gave the answer to that about 60 years ago when they released their masterpiece "The Sound of Silence".

           Nobody would have complained and some, rather quietly, would have applauded. Can you really imagine that there would have been any cfuss?
           • Nic the NZer 7.1.1.1.1.1

             30 April 2024 at 2:27 pm

             Your saying you're Nobody?
             • alwyn …

               30 April 2024 at 5:37 pm

               Que?

               If you are trying to suggest that I would have objected to Labour banning cellphones in schools I can only say you are confused. I would have been surprised if they had done so but only because it would have been a good thing to do and such good sense was very rare in their benighted time in power. I would certainly not have complained about it.
               • Nic the NZer …

                 30 April 2024 at 9:57 pm

                 I would have expected you to object to, a rather overbearing overtly bureaucratic implementation of something schools were already doing in a less strict (and probably more effective) manner anyway which really is just a political virtue signaling exercise to suggest the government is doing something to improve education but which will also make no blind bit of difference what so ever to educational outcomes, but I guess I was wrong (you seem to think its a good idea actually).
       • Nic the NZer 7.1.1.2

         30 April 2024 at 1:21 pm

         I once got told off by my GM after investigating and fixing a customer problem and sending a very sarcastic email to the development team members who had tried to phob the customer off with a "fix" which just broke the system even worse. Over an expensive lunch he told me certain things probably didn't need said quite so explicitely.

         I imagine the ERO has similar ways to deal with it.
       • Belladonna 7.1.1.3

         30 April 2024 at 2:20 pm

         A down-check from ERO for not following Education Department policy is no joking matter. It affects the school relationship with the community (has to be explained to parents); and can result in an administrator being appointed as principal. It will certainly involve a lot of additional work for the board and the senior staff in both remedying the situation, and then demonstrating/proving that the change has been implemented.

         Much better to implement the policy…. Especially as, there seem to be few, if any, educational leaders saying that cellphones in classrooms are a good thing for children's education.

         Much like the hoopla around the 1 hour a day of Maths and Reading and Writing. Most schools were already doing this – so it really didn't affect them one way or the other.
         • mpledger 7.1.1.3.1

           1 May 2024 at 12:10 am

           Cell phones in school were useful. Kids in tech made video with them, wrote programs for them (and won awards). Kids took photos of homework written on the board or copied notes from friends if they missed a class. Used them to record interviews for history & English. For college kids it was an incredibly useful tool.

           It's insane to ask 17 & 18 years olds to treat cell phones as some evil when they will go out in to the real world and be expected to see them as a work tool.
           • Belladonna 7.1.1.3.1.1

             2 May 2024 at 9:15 am

             Also used (extensively) for surreptitiously watching video clips in class, keeping up with their social contacts, and online bullying.

             Having several recently graduated from school people in the workplace – it seems to comes as a major shock to them, that they are expected to not engage with their social media during work time.

             From your argument, all of those schools which had already banned phones during class time – should have had a substantive drop in student performance. Newsflash. They haven't.
   • Jimmy 7.2

     30 April 2024 at 2:14 pm

     Kiwi build?
     Nine years of neglect?
     • joe90 7.2.1

       30 April 2024 at 5:02 pm

       Nine years of neglect?

       lol

       /

       Construction workers are leaving New Zealand in droves as delays to big projects are creating uncertainty across the infrastructure industry.

       The Government's decision to cancel Three Waters and Light Rail has left a lot of contractors out of work, who are now urging the Government to move fast and kick projects into gear before more experienced staff are lost overseas.

       Next Level Civil owner Ryan Ruthe said he'd love to be fixing roads but instead he's building driveways to keep his business trucking along.

       "We were quite heavily involved in road maintenance, it was almost overnight once the Government changed, the funding became uncertain and the phone stopped ringing. We're just in a holding pattern waiting for things to improve.

       https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/29/construction-workers-leaving-nz-in-droves-amid-big-project-delays/
     • SPC 7.2.2

       30 April 2024 at 5:13 pm

       You are aware the housing construction level was the highest since the 1970's?

       Just not as much through Kiwibuild as intended.
8. joe90 8

   30 April 2024 at 12:46 pm

   Lock up to protect society. Mutilated as revenge. Sick.

   A 21st Judicial District Judge has ordered a 54-year-old man to be physically castrated, in addition to his sentence, as part of a guilty plea for the rape of a 14-year-old girl that resulted in a pregnancy.

   District Attorney Scott Perrilloux’s office announced Glenn Sullivan Sr., 54, of Springfield, pleaded guilty on Wednesday, April 17, to four counts of second-degree rape. Judge William Dykes sentenced Sullivan to 50 years in prison, and he is required to be physically castrated.

   https://www.wafb.com/2024/04/23/physical-castration-mandated-springfield-man-who-pled-guilty-raping-impregnating-teen/
   • Obtrectator 8.1

     30 April 2024 at 1:21 pm

     A bad bastard all right, but the mutilation part of the sentence is going too far. One has to wonder what law provided for it in the first place. It shouldn't survive the appeals process, surely? (Cruel and unusual punishment … )
     • Belladonna 8.1.1

       30 April 2024 at 2:03 pm

       Given that he's also sentenced to a 50-year term of imprisonment (from which, given his age, he'll almost certainly not survive) – it seems that the need to protect the community from him has already been met.

       Unless, of course, he declares that he’s a woman – and gets transferred to a women’s prison.
9. Jimmy 9

   30 April 2024 at 4:09 pm

   "Hawea’s grieving whānau said he was “the kindest and most loving boy ever”. "

   No he wasn't! He stole a car, was involved in a robbery, sped away from police, drove dangerously on wrong side of the road, has seriously injured at least two innocent people who are fighting for their lives in hospital.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350261565/teen-driver-killed-wrong-way-crash-after-fleeing-police
   • Belladonna 9.1

     30 April 2024 at 4:38 pm

     Think about how distressed this story would make the family of the people hospitalized by his criminally reckless actions.

     While his family should be free to post whatever tributes to him they choose on social meda – there is zero need for news media to repeat them.

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