Open mike 30/08/2022

52 comments on “Open mike 30/08/2022 ”

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1. Stephen D 1

   30 August 2022 at 8:02 am

   If you're low-lying, and can see the sea from your house, you need to read this.

   https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/29/major-sea-level-rise-caused-by-melting-of-greenland-ice-cap-is-now-inevitable-27cm-climate

   "Major sea-level rise from the melting of the Greenland ice cap is now inevitable, scientists have found, even if the fossil fuel burning that is driving the climate crisis were to end overnight.

   The research shows the global heating to date will cause an absolute minimum sea-level rise of 27cm (10.6in) from Greenland alone as 110tn tonnes of ice melt. With continued carbon emissions, the melting of other ice caps and thermal expansion of the ocean, a multi-metre sea-level rise appears likely."
   • Jenny are we there yet 1.1

     30 August 2022 at 9:01 am

     Goodbye Bangladesh.

     https://phys.org/news/2021-04-human-exodus-bangladesh-due-sea-level.html

     Western Imperialism has a new name. 'Climate Change'.

     New Zealand leads the charge in denying climate refugees sanctuary, setting a precedent for other Western countries the main culprits behind climate change. to pretty much carry out genocide, against the third world victims of our climate change inaction..

     New Zealand refuses climate change refugees – mass action is now needed

     Morgan Godfery Mon 12 May 2014 01.40 BST

     New Zealand’s court of appeal has refused refugee status to a family from Kiribati, a Pacific island which is quickly sinking beneath the sea

     …..Sea level rise – coupled with more intense storm cycles – will contaminate the water table, pollute the small pockets of agricultural land and destroy homes and businesses. Tarawa, the main atoll, is a tiny sandstrip some six square miles in size. There is, quite literally, no escaping the misery climate change will cause…..

     …..Anote Tong, is exploring options for mass migration.

     The idealist in me hoped the court of appeal would create an option for that mass migration. The realists on the court wouldn’t have a bar of that…..

     ……Ordinary people need to put pressure on their governments to deal with climate change displacement. The missing link isn’t some new legal rule, but mass action.

     The history of the Pacific is a history of isolation, both physical and political. It’s that isolation that allowed the great powers to commit economic and military misadventures in the region, from depleting phosphate stocks in Kiribati and Naura to nuclear testing in French Polynesia and the Marshall Islands.

     The social history of the Pacific is one of migration, from the early Austronesian and Polynesian expansions to the recent European settler migration. How can we say no to refugees when we are all migrants ourselves?

     https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/12/new-zealand-refuses-climate-change-refugees-mass-action-is-now-needed
     • bwaghorn 1.1.1

       30 August 2022 at 12:22 pm

       How many should we take?

       150?

       1500?

       1 500,000?

       1 500,000,000?

       Fortress nz time
       • Barfly 1.1.1.1

         30 August 2022 at 3:49 pm

         
2. Robert Guyton 2

   30 August 2022 at 8:32 am

   What to do about all this (How to get there 🙂

   "They allow us ‘to draw inspiration and comfort from the fact that the path we have taken is not the only one available, that our destiny is therefore not indelibly written in a set of choices that demonstrably and scientifically have proven not to be wise’. By their very existence, he says, the diverse cultures of the world show we can change, as we know we must, the fundamental manner in which we inhabit this planet."

   https://www.resilience.org/stories/2022-08-29/invisible-force-why-culture-will-determine-humanitys-future/?
   • Jenny are we there yet 2.1

     30 August 2022 at 10:00 am

     Robert Guyton

     30 August 2022 at 8:32 am

     What to do about all this (How to get there

     New Zealand could begin by listening to the people we are intending to drown and act on their pleas.

     Pacific leaders call for coal mining to be shut down to save island nations from effects of climate change

     By Eric Tlozek

     Posted Tue 8 Sep 2015 at 10:31amTuesday 8 Sep 2015 at 10:31am, updated Tue 8 Sep 2015 at 11:44am

     "We're simply seeking for the rights of small island states to survive,"

     https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/pacific-island-nations-want-to-shut-down-coal-mining/6756958

     New Zealand could start listening to their pleas, by being the first Western Country in the world to ‘Ratify the Majuro Declaration on Climate Change into law in parliament.

     http://www.21stcentech.com/climate-change-update-majuro-declaration-climate-leadership/

     …..Not familiar with Majuro? It is a declaration by 15 Pacific Ocean states including Australia and New Zealand. It is in effect a declaration of war against continued development of fossil fuel energy sources. It is an affirmation that climate change is the issue we must all address on the planet. And it is a take charge declaration that states unequivocally that atmospheric warming is not a bargaining chip for endless conferences that accomplish nothing…..

     …..We, the Leaders of the Pacific Islands Forum, underline the need for urgent action at all levels to reduce greenhouse gas emissions commensurate with the science and to respond urgently and sufficiently to the social, economic and security impacts of climate change to ensure the survival and viability of all Pacific small island developing States, in particular low-lying atoll States, and other vulnerable countries and regions worldwide.

     …..Prime Minister Tony Abbott will travel to Port Moresby on Wednesday and will take part in the main Pacific Islands Forum leaders retreat on Thursday.

     A climate change declaration in Suva last week ….. signalled what Pacific countries would likely bring to the negotiating table.

     The two big brothers of the Pacific have largely ignored their neighbours' calls to meet the challenges of climate change.

     https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-07/kiribati-urges-australia-nz-to-be-real-friends-on-climate-change/6755794

     In my opinion it is way past time that New Zealand and Australia stopped 'largely ignoring our neighbours' calls. And started acting on them.

     That we haven’t speaks to our racism and history of colonial disrespect and oppression of our Pacific Island neighbours.

     Colonialism has a new name, Climate Change
3. Leighton 3

   30 August 2022 at 8:56 am

   What does billion-dollar Essity think it is playing at by threatening to sue factory workers that it has already locked out? We don't need these corporate bully-boy tactics in NZ – I think a consumer boycott is in order. There are plenty of other (and environmentally better) toilet paper, paper towels, tissues etc out on the market.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/129720192/purex-manufacturer-makes-500k-legal-threat-against-workers-union-says
   • aom 3.1

     30 August 2022 at 10:07 am

     Time for far more drastic action. NZ should enact legislation to tell outfits that abuse NZers to FUCK OFF- do not pass GO and do not collect $200.

     Unfortunately our craven Government lacks the balls to look after NZers unless they are protecting the right of returns to wealthy 'investors'. Most of them are so low that they minimise their taxes by claiming an income that the poorest can't even dream about, let alone aspire to.
4. Sanctuary 4

   30 August 2022 at 9:14 am

   Pakistan's population at partition in 1947 was about 35,000,000. Today it is 235,000,000. Egypt had 10,000,000 people in 1900, 106,000,000 today. Iran's population in 1950 (first accurate census) was 16,000,000. Today it is 89,000,000.

   Across the entire "cradle of civilisation" – from the Indus valley to the Nile – over-population is now a chronic problem and it is where the first mass climate induced starvations are going to occur.
5. Bearded Git 5

   30 August 2022 at 9:14 am

   Nicola Willis refused to rule out National working with Tamaki's party this morning on First Up.

   Nathan Rarere (who is so good) asked her to answer "yes or no" and she wouldn't.

   The whole interview is worth a listen.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018856612
   • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 5.1

     30 August 2022 at 9:43 am

     At about 7.50 into the interview, to save people from having to listen to all the Natz crap that comes first.
   • Grantoc 5.2

     30 August 2022 at 4:34 pm

     The will they/won't they hysteria about National not ruling out working with Tamaki's 'party' is an irrelevant liberal left media beat up.

     There is no Destiny Church /Tamaki Party as we speak. There is unlikely to be any such party. Sure Tamaki has made a couple of speeches about creating one; that's the easy bit, but Tamaki has offered no vision, no policies, or any statements of intent, for NZ. There is nothing from Tamaki but a few tired non sensical slogans. He is not motivated or committed to do the hard graft of building a party. Its too much like hard work. I predict it won't happen.

     Given the above what is the point of any political party saying they will or won't work with Tamaki.

     Of course it suits the narrative and the agenda of the liberal left to foster the idea of a Tamaki Party in same way as the "reds under the beds' campaign tried to do some years ago. If the liberal left can 'con' the National Party into this game, well that's some sort of minor, but ultimately irrelevant propaganda victory for the left I suppose.
     • observer 5.2.1

       30 August 2022 at 4:58 pm

       You're missing the point there.

       Of course you're correct that Tamaki's party won't get anywhere, for the reasons you describe. So when Luxon was asked all he had to say was:

       "Brian Tamaki? Seriously? Of course we won't be doing any deals with him, we don't want anything to do with him, he's a charlatan, his views are appalling and his party is obviously a non-starter."

       But he didn't.

       The issue is not Tamaki (irrelevant). it is Luxon's utterly hopeless judgement. He goes on TV and rules out Ardern and then goes on radio and doesn't rule out Tamaki. He gains nothing by doing this.

       He has no idea how to do basic politics. He cannot think on his feet. He probably had a line prepared for him about "not interested in Brian Tamaki" but then he mangled it and instead managed to sound evasive and confused. He ended up saying "Read between the lines". Why?

       This is the source of all his stuff-ups, from important (abortion) to trivial (Hawaii). He goes onto auto-pilot and digs deeper and deeper and deeper ….

       and you can hardly blame the "left" or the media for giving him enough rope if he's always tying himself up.
       • Leighton 5.2.1.1

         30 August 2022 at 5:01 pm

         Excellent post, observer.
       • Bearded Git 5.2.1.2

         30 August 2022 at 5:09 pm

         Excellent post Observer hitting the proverbial nail on the head.

         What I noticed on First Up was that Willis used exactly the same words (give or take) as Luxon when the Tamaki Party was raised. Hers was no accidental response …this is the official National line. And long may it continue all the way to the election.
     • lprent 5.2.2

       30 August 2022 at 5:54 pm

       There is no Destiny Church /Tamaki Party as we speak

       He is not motivated or committed to do the hard graft of building a party. Its too much like hard work. I predict it won’t happen.

       Try wikipedia if you can’t keep up with current politics. They link to everything so even the most lazy person can follow it..

       The Density party was formed in 2003. Nominally it had nothing to do with the Density Church. And if you believe that then can I refer some bridge sellers to you. He does appear to have rather a lot to do with it.

       On 18 September 2007, Brian Tamaki announced that Destiny New Zealand would be deregistered as a political party.[7] In its place, a new Christian political party would be formed, with Richard Lewis as the co-leader.[8] The second co-leader was not announced. However, then-MP for The Kiwi Party Gordon Copeland announced that he was the other co-leader of the party.[9] On 20 September Copeland announced that he “could not work” with Richard Lewis, and would remain an independent MP.[10] In October, it was announced that Destiny New Zealand would put its support behind The Family Party, to be led by Lewis and former United Future MP Paul Adams.[11] The Family Party contested the 2008 election without success and was disbanded in 2010.

       In 2019, Hannah and Brian Tamaki announced a new party, initially called Coalition New Zealand then renamed as Vision NZ.[12]

       Vision NZ got 4,236 votes across the whole country in the 2020 general election. It appears to still be registered. Its leader is still Brian Tamaki’s wife. Brian Tamaki, as he has done for the last 20 years seems to spend a lot of time speaking for parties that appear the Density Party in drag. He also seems to spend inordinate amounts of time and resources prancing around supporting them.

       Basically you still seem to be the same credulous political idiot you were a decade ago. Confidently asserting ‘facts’ that are just misinformation. Believing spin and PR rather than just digging into available information. And I suspect your next trick will either be to whine like child how it is unfair to point your personal defects out to you, or resort to saying that Vision NZ isn’t just a drag queen impression of the Density party and church.
   • Incognito 5.3

     30 August 2022 at 5:43 pm

     Unless both the Leader and Deputy-Leader of the National Party are hapless it seems it is deliberate strategy (aka speaking notes) to keep the door open for Brian Tamaki and his followers to join National (and ACT, presumably) in Government in 2023 (aka come hell or high water).
     • observer 5.3.1

       30 August 2022 at 5:49 pm

       I see it differently. Luxon is indeed hapless, and Willis the loyal deputy couldn't go on the radio afterwards and say "Well, actually …".

       The interview snippet is very short, but it doesn't suggest any strategy to me.
       • Incognito 5.3.1.1

         30 August 2022 at 6:49 pm

         Agree to disagree
       • Bearded Git 5.3.1.2

         31 August 2022 at 9:43 am

         Either way the Nats are in a mess here.
         • Incognito 5.3.1.2.1

           31 August 2022 at 6:12 pm

           Agree to agree
6. roy cartland 6

   30 August 2022 at 9:26 am

   One of the good things on TDB is this podcast, Buchanan and Manning. B reckons Trump is going down, words like "treason" and "death penalty" are mentioned. Freaky.
   • roy cartland 6.1

     30 August 2022 at 9:40 am

     Bit more of a summary:

     Trump & co don't care for their followers, anyone stupid enough to believe he can do what he says he can, gets what they deserve.

     Shredded National documents and threw them down the Mar-a-lago toilet, a federal (section 4? i.e. highest order) crime.

     He had the payroll info of covert ops / undercover personnel in the field, which he could sell to Russia, Israel, Saudis, putting said personnel at great risk. So someone in the CIA has got that info out of Langley to him, which would imply a massive internal investigation.

     Treason and espionage are still capital crimes in the USA, otherwise prison sentences of 50+ years.

     Those around him will squeal, as they try to save their own skins; the only way to avoid prison (or the chair!) is to point the finger upwards.

     The only way out for him now is to move further into crazy territory (stacking the benches with whackos, like he is doing).

     Ron de Santis (among others) might abandon him to have a tilt at the presidency himself.
   • Anne 6.2

     30 August 2022 at 9:55 am

     "One of the good things on TDB is this podcast, Buchanan and Manning"

     It is indeed. Two of our most intelligent and talented professionals discussing local and world affairs they actually know something about.

     Since I stopped looking at the TDB, I forget to watch. Could they be included in the sidebar or are they already there.
   • joe90 6.3

     30 August 2022 at 12:39 pm

     In February Asia Janay Lavarello was locked up for big-noting with documents she wasn't supposed to have. Reality Winner was sentenced to more than five years for mishandling documents she wasn't supposed to have. Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen will die in prison, and Jonathan Pollard should too but Israel, for their activities.

     tRump?

     So, who wants to see that in skywriting over Washington DC?

     It’s already been covered in other posts, but I think the most distressing thing may be this:

     https://balloon-juice.com/2022/08/27/t-r-e-4-5-o-n/
7. Jimmy 7

   30 August 2022 at 9:53 am

   "Gerrard said he feels he's failed as a father and it breaks his heart seeing the look of sadness on the faces of his children."

   As a father I would say he's pretty successful having six children. Very silly though, to have two more children while living in a motel, when you cannot afford to look after the current four children. Why do these people keep producing children they cannot afford?

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/08/wh-nau-of-eight-say-they-re-being-forgotten-about-after-living-in-one-bedroom-transitional-housing-unit-for-nearly-four-years.html
   • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1

     30 August 2022 at 11:34 am

     "These people" – let the NAct Hunger Games begin again, eh Jiminy?

     

     https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/16-08-2022/the-side-eyes-two-new-zealands-the-table
     • Jimmy 7.1.1

       30 August 2022 at 1:46 pm

       I can't afford to have 6 children. If he was earning $200k+ a year, then have a big family. But it sounds like they expect other people to pay for their children.
       • aom 7.1.1.1

         30 August 2022 at 2:18 pm

         There was a time when families routinely has large numbers of children and had a good, plentiful lifestyle with a fair distribution of wealth that was not pegged to 'deserving' and 'undeserving'. Somewhere along the way (1980's?) we lost the plot and encouraged wealth to be funneled up, accumulated and hoarded by the 1%ers.

         Hope you have been frugal all your life so you can survive retirement and old age Jimmy. Otherwise, you may have to rely on the wealth generated by your targets six children for your survival.
         • Jimmy 7.1.1.1.1

           30 August 2022 at 2:30 pm

           Yes throughout my life I have had a degree of personal responsibility (which seems to be missing from these people) ie. I have planned for future and retirement and not expected to receive handouts from government or elsewhere. Don't the Greens say the world is already over populated? So maybe the large families are a thing of the past.
           • arkie 7.1.1.1.1.1

             30 August 2022 at 3:24 pm

             No the Greens do not say that at all, that is an eco-fascist argument. What we have is an unequal distribution problem, not a population problem.
             • Jimmy …

               30 August 2022 at 3:53 pm

               Ah yes. The old unequal distribution argument. I have worked hard, starting with virtually nothing, and saved a nice nest egg for my retirement, But because I have worked hard, taken risks and got ahead, I should now give a whole lot away to someone that has not worked at all.
               • arkie …

                 30 August 2022 at 4:46 pm

                 Are you going to refuse Super?
                 • Jimmy …

                   30 August 2022 at 5:00 pm

                   No, like Winston didn't.

                   But I have budgeted to survive without it.
                   • arkie …

                     30 August 2022 at 5:07 pm

                     Then survive without it, otherwise you would be receiving handouts from government.
               • Incognito …

                 30 August 2022 at 6:35 pm

                 … I should now give a whole lot away to someone that has not worked at all.

                 There it is, the tax-is-theft accusation, theft from your personal wallet. In addition, based on your stereotyping, you assume that a person has not worked at all without any evidence to support your belief. I can see how the National Party propaganda captures deplorable gullible souls like you.
                 • Jimmy …

                   31 August 2022 at 11:37 am

                   You seem to have grabbed the wrong end of the stick. I do not believe "Tax is theft". I pay my legal amount of tax required and do not mind doing so.

                   What I am against, is using my after tax income and saving wisely, and now be told, because I have provided for myself, I should give some to people who have not provided for themselves (and often pissed it up against a wall, not that I think the family in this example have, they have simply kept producing children without thinking about who is going to pay to school them, cloth them, feed them, house them even).
                   • Incognito …

                     31 August 2022 at 6:45 pm

                     Your comment makes very little sense, it is contradictory even, and a nice attempt at smearing the usual stereotypical suspects.
                 • Jimmy …

                   1 September 2022 at 7:39 am

                   Just out of interest, what part of my comment is contradictory and doesn't make sense?

                   Saying that I want to keep the after tax income I have saved, and not have it re-distributed to others that have not saved seems very logical to me.
           • arkie 7.1.1.1.1.2

             30 August 2022 at 5:07 pm

             https://twitter.com/HamptonThink/status/1337258690261512192
       • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.1.2

         30 August 2022 at 3:19 pm

         But it sounds like they expect other people to pay for their children.

         Imho that’s lazy pejorative framing which would make Ruth proud.

         Care to consider alternatives? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_takes_a_village

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/it-takes-a-village

         It Takes a Village to Raise a Child: Understanding and Expanding the Concept of the “Village” [11 March 2022]
         https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2022.756066/full
         • Jimmy 7.1.1.2.1

           30 August 2022 at 4:37 pm

           "Care to consider alternatives?" – what like, responsible parenting and birth control?
           • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.1.2.1.1

             30 August 2022 at 5:02 pm

             what like…?

             Apologies if it wasn't clear Jiminy; was asking if you had considered this specific alternative way of looking at 'the problem':

             It Takes a Village to Raise a Child: Understanding and Expanding the Concept of the “Village” [11 March 2022]
             https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2022.756066/full

             Or even (quelle horreur – queue the Dancing Cossacks!) "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", i.e. a different kind of control.

             If 'we' had started to exercise some responsible control 50 years ago then we wouldn't be in such a mess now, but here we all are, 4 billion additional souls later. No use crying over spilt milt, and imho children shouldn't suffer – even a fan of 'the rod' knows (in their ‘heart’) that the kids aren't to blame.

             Why poverty in New Zealand is everyone's concern
             Liang describes poverty as a "heritable condition" that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: "It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels."

             A Kete Half Empty
             Poverty is your problem, it is everyone's problem, not just those who are in poverty. – Rebecca, a child from Te Puru
           • Leighton 7.1.1.2.1.2

             30 August 2022 at 5:07 pm

             If the Greens aren't saying that having six children is a problem, then they should be. Overpopulation is one of the main contributors towards climate change and reducing the birth rate is part of the solution. It is environmentally irresponsible for anybody to be having six kids in 2022 regardless of wealth/whether they are able to pay for them.
             • Jimmy …

               31 August 2022 at 11:31 am

               Apparently not according to Arkie above at 7.1.1.1.1.1
           • aom 7.1.1.2.1.3

             30 August 2022 at 9:05 pm

             As evidenced by your comments, your parents didn't consider alternatives – like responsible parenting and birth control.
             • Jimmy …

               31 August 2022 at 11:28 am

               Haha, very funny. But actually they did by only having two children and not relying on the state to raise us.
8. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 8

   30 August 2022 at 2:20 pm

   Gosh, Jacinda spanked poor Luxy in the house today.

   He reads from a set list of questions which tend to go over the same point again and again. Only Seymour asked a couple of relevant questions.

   Bring on the GE debates hey ho!
9. Cricklewood 9

   30 August 2022 at 5:04 pm

   Wow, have to say the headlines around the gst on Kiwisaver fees are pretty ugly… could set a narrative in place that really hurts electorally.
   • Sacha 9.1

     30 August 2022 at 8:18 pm

     Who could have known?
   • Binders full of women 9.2

     30 August 2022 at 8:21 pm

     Not to mention the extra $1,800 tax on worker insurance 🙁 squeezed middle
   • Jester 9.3

     30 August 2022 at 10:21 pm

     There is no new taxes.

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