Tīwaiwaka wahine would be female fantail; Gezza, but ka te pai for making the effort. Less poetically, it was probably after the insects that were stirred up by your presence – which is why they seem to be such a friendly bird to humans.
“tīwakawaka
1. (noun) fantail – a small, friendly, insect-eating bird of the bush and domestic gardens which has a distinctive tail resembling a spread fan.
Nā, kia mōhio tātou, ko ngā tīwaiwaka e tītakataka nei ka hura rā hoki ngā hukumaro ki runga, ka riro ko te upoko ki raro (TTT 1/10/1929:1086). / Now, we should know that fantails flit about opening their tail feathers up and with their head going down.
(Te Pihinga Study Guide (Ed. 1): 2; Te Māhuri Textbook (Ed. 2): 182;)”
It’s also known as he pīwakawaka in some other parts of te motu.
A wahine toa Māori friend of mine in her 60s up in Northland always shortens the name to tīwaka when she writes about hers up there – which is why I did. (Thanks for the reminder about the macron being needed on the ī, btw.)
PS: No, it's not after insects stirred up by me. I saw it flitting about in the trees across the stream. I'm just standing by my fence, not moving. I called it over. I know how to mimic a tīwakawaka call.
That is impressive; Gezza, my own whistling has a half octave range, and even then; there is a rather wet slurring to the pitch (probably learning brass at school messed up my embouchure habits for whistling, and other flutes). Āe, ngā reo ā-iwi certainly do make the language interesting – if it was intentional and had precedent then you're not wrong,
My tīwaka call is a variation on a “kissy” sound. I suck air thru my teeth. A bit hard to describe further beyond that. I can get it to sound quite loud & it carries across the stream.
Another neat trick a lady friend of mine in Huntly uses is to rub two pieces of polystyrene foam together. I tried it, & it works on my fantails here. 👍🏼
My Māori friend up north lives off grid with her partner in te Hokianga. Her tūrangawaewae is East Coast tho. She spent many years as a possum hunter & trapper. Now she’s becoming quite a tohunga rongoā.
Off to get my second shot of vaccine today; more like 9 weeks after the first than the intended 12, but school holidays start at the end of the week and I want to be over any reactions and side effects before I am being scamped 24/7 again. I had the soreness at injection site for a day or two last time, expecting the wiped-outness this time around, so have got a bunch of DVDs from the library (including the reCGed Sagan Cosmos!) and arranged for a friend to come over to watch them (and over me) the next couple of evenings. I did the same for them a couple of weeks back when they had their 6 week jab. Though that was more snuggling together in front of a winter fire.
Vacci-dating is a very 2021 form of social interaction.
Ad, I was trying to imagine what your pain and torment was like, having likened it to that of Lawrence of Arabia. Was it like suffering riding a camel cross-legged across a stony desert all day with little water? Still, he got to be a wise man, did TE Lawrence, after the experience, with his "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".
Then I realised you had just got through a bad day by watching the film, not by reliving it. I'm glad you're better. My second jab took my energy so that a usual Sunday morning hill walk climbing 400 metres had me stopping five times on the uphill stretch-usually one stop 'for the view'.
Lawrence taught me that the major religions all came out of the desert as a result of encounters with open, starry night skies. I still seek spiritual solace that way- without the panadol, but sometimes with a wee dram……..
COVID is certainly the disease of the unvaccinated according to healthcare workers. And now thanks to “Roger’n’Ruth’s” toxic neo liberal legacy, it is also the disease of the alienated working class poor.
It is pretty clear what needs to be done, albeit obviously too late for this current virus outbreak.
–Pay all citizens a basic income via IRD (recovered via taxation from higher earners)
–Fare free public transport and free Wifi nationwide
–Rent control at all times
–Rent freeze and mortgage holiday during any lockdowns
–State house and apartment mega build, emergency housing and homeless tiny house build in all towns and regions
But what is the Govt.’s latest move? relax conditions for migrant workers just as upward pressure on wages was building in a tighter labour market! Yes migrant workers have been treated appallingly for ever and redress is needed, but really employers and the NZ petit bourgeois just get such favoured treatment from this majority Labour Govt. Bring on 2023 and 2026 I say.
Bribery and punishment rarely work to incentivise good behaviour, so John Key should put down the wooden spoon about vaccine-hesitant people, writes Jess Berentson-Shaw
So when I read John Key suggesting that “incentives” should make up a core part of our vaccination strategy (that means offering a mix of material “rewards” for getting vaccinated and sanctions for not), I rolled my eyes.
Save us from conservative men with opinions telling us that what hesitant people really need to get themselves vaccinated is a bit of tough love. It's the rhetorical equivalent to shouting “boot camps!” in response to youth crime.
Poor old conservative John Key. He doesn't get the respect now that he believes that he deserves.
It's a good scheme – time to break with that strange conservative reflex of Peter Dunne's that has NZ trailing liberalization even of countries as backward as the US.
Better for everyone that gangs are mellow – and vaccinated.
Apropos the notion in National's pandemic response of purpose-built quarantine facilities near Auckland airport to open in early 2022. On CNN today:
China has built a 5,000-room quarantine centre for overseas arrivals.
– A (NZ) $378 million, 5,000-room quarantine facility for incoming travellers opening in Guangzhou.
– Size of 46 football fields, took less than three months to be built from scratch on outskirts of the city.
– Travellers transferred directly from the airport on buses, confined to their rooms for at least two weeks. Three meals a day delivered by robots — minimized direct contact with staff.
– More than 4,000 workers assigned to the construction site. The facility completed earlier this month and a first batch of 184 medical staff moved in last week
– Designed as bubble isolated from rest of city – travellers, AND workers placed under effective lockdown.
– Medical staff work 28 days at the facility, go through week of quarantine themselves, and another two weeks of home quarantine before allowed to go outside.
That can happen in a dictatorship with unlimited resources.
NZ has a massive shortage of construction workers Shortages of building materials many imported from China supply constrictions ,lack of ships operating due to covid.
I have observed the calls to have unlimited resources, instant, dictatorship type action.
Do you think it's funny when such calls come from those who freak out and scream "Dictatorship!" when there are rules about wearing facemarks on public transport and suggestions about wearing them in public?
Don't you think it's funny when people anti a particular government demand unlimited resources, instant action then if anything is done at haste to meet the perceived needs of a situation, wail "What about consultation?!"
New Covid-19 poster child, Ireland, has 40,000 active cases and recorded 40 deaths yesterday. Bloomberg says Ireland is the best place to be right now.
National wants purpose built quarantine centre by early 2022. Have they been asked just how that would be done? Land to be acquired, council consents to be applied for, architects and designers selected to draw up plans, contractors and sub-contractors to be tendered for, building materials to be ordered and trades people to be hired all in the next 5-6 months for completion in early 2022. One of the nuttiest ideas ever.
Government has already been working on this for some time and National knows this. National pretends to come up with new innovative plans whilst painting the Government as a shambolic useless lot and then claiming the credit when it is actually happening AKA I told you so. Cheap lazy political point-scoring and grandstanding and not fit for Government.
there appears to be an almost without exception complete media black out on the Select Committee Hearing on the BMDRR Bill
So hears my update.
Select committee members are showing very overtly they are biased in favour of the bill when submitters are against the bill.
Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this biasis.
One MP , Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, posted a screenshot from the zoom call, with a submitter who opposes the bill accusing them of hate speech. This is likely defamation, but also completely undermines the Select Committee process as it amounts to intimidation. ie if you present an opposing view to the views the select committee clearly holds, you risk being put on FB and acccused of hate speech
With counting almost complete the numbers against the bill outweigh the numbers for the bill by 75 to 25%
There have been a number of Maori wahine presenting against the bill
Pasifica have also presented against the beill
Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle are part of an group of prominant older feminists who are presenting against the Bill and calling for a Royal Commission of Enquiry into sex and gender.
Stuff, Herald, TVNZ Radio NZ Newshub………..your welcome
I have been really shocked by the contempt shown towards some submitters by members of the select committee. Shamefully, for me as a Labour Party member, the worst behaviour is coming from Labour MPs. I have seen eye rolling, scrolling through phones, frankly hostile and confrontational conduct. Deborah Russell has finished a day of intemperate conduct on the select committee and gone home to tweet that she wants to shout "oh do F*ck off" to submitters.
Along with Kerekere's facebook abuse of one group submitting, and Rachel Boyack's barely concealed contempt, sitting pointedly scrolling through her phone during one group's submission, the whole process has been an appalling display of arrogance.
Committee members do not have to share the beliefs of submitters, but should have sufficient EQ to be able to listen respectfully and politely clarify points as required.
The conduct of the committee has been an absolute fiasco. Only Ian McKelvie and Nicola Griggs have shown any ability to conduct themselves appropriately. (It galls me to say this as I pathologically hate the Nats).
What on earth are the party chief whips doing, allowing this to happen? Do these MPs not know what their roles and responsibilities are? Do they not get some training on parliamentary processes and appropriate behaviour? Mallard has already said on Twitter that he has no role in sanctioning misbehaving MPs on select committees.
The whole thing has been a shameful episode for democartic processes. Labour should thank their lucky stars that the opposition are in such disarray.
A member who has (whether in the House or outside the House) made an allegation of crime or expressed a concluded view on any conduct or activity of a criminal nature, identifying by name or otherwise a person as being responsible for or associated with that crime, conduct, or activity (referred to as apparent bias), may not participate—
The Births deaths , marriages and relationships Bill is really about being able to change gender.
For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision
Regardless of one's views about the bill, members of the public should be able to submit to the select committee without fear of intimidation from MPs. If you support democratic processes, it is really important that the integrity of the select committee process is preserved. If this becomes the new standard of conduct for discussing differing views we are heading to a very dark place.
No eye rolls arent intimidation, but i imagine it could be intimidating to some presenters.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech. Lets call it what it is intimidation
So if I am presenting the next day and am in disagreement with this bill, it would be realistic for me to fear the same thing happening.
The hate speech thing is a smear. Its intimidation and inappropriate for a MP to do this, probably breaks the harmful digital communication lawas and is in fact libleless.
FFS I thought you guys were all about the "safe spaces". Seems like that doesn't apply to women who disagree with you.
And where are the men on the Standard? Heads buried in ideology.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech
Can you please link, and be specific. I looked the other day and the FB post I saw didn't quite match your description. One of the reasons we ask for links a lot here is so that people can see what is being referred to and in context. It makes discussion much better when we are all working off the same page.
Ghostwalker, try reading John Minto submission which is againgst SOP59
or the Correction Officers who has a trans kid, but is against the bill cause he has seen a number of pregnancies in women's prison due to transgender women being there.
Fowls with older prominant feminists is fantastic (Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle, a former Green MP). They are against gender id and are calling for a royal commission into sex and gender.
or save Women's Sports oral submission with one of the submitters giving evidence of how transgender females are already in women's only spaces and the Bill will only accerelate and legitimize this. She gives a case of a gym where a transwomen sat and watched as women and girls got changed. So is anyone whose pro this bill alarm bells going off yet. The gym claimed they could do nothing which probably could be challenged, but not once this bill comes in.
Their is a Pacific Island GP who is really pissed off about this bill and the Conversion therapy bill, and she claims the lack of consultation with the PI community shows how hollow the apology for the dawn raids are. The is a huge number of Asian people submitting against this bill..
There are Christians of course, Lesbian groups, Maori wahine, women, mothers. There are people who wrote things like “Just don’t”. and is the Government completely mad.
btw, for clarity, the difference between the two comments is that the second one is someone reporting what they saw in the video. The first is saying that a sitting MP made a defamatory statement. The latter needs to be linked. The former, it would be good if people got in the habit of putting up links, but it's not particularly contentious.
(I don't think what Kerekere did is defamatory, because I think defamation needs to be a) a specific allegation or statement, 2) made against a specific person/s. EK's behaviour is appalling though)
Thanks weka. I did make that assumption when posting the link, but thought I'd better check given we are at the sharp end of the day.
I was disillusioned with the integrity of the select committee process when I attended one of the last minute ones held in Auckland for the TPPA. Both David Shearer and David Parker remain in my memory as equivalent to the eye-rolling and disdainful behaviour Anker relates in this instance.
It strikes me as farcical to refer to consultation conducted in such a way as democratic. I criticised such behaviour when it was exhibited by a National government. I am critical of the same behaviour and lack of genuine democracy being demonstrated by members of this government.
thanks, that's very helpful, I didn't know if what the Labour/GP women are doing was out of the norm for SCs or not. Very disappointing that it's normal, as well as the disappointment for this particular group of women.
What i really would like to know is if the Persons of the Green Party realise that in the end they too – like the persons of the Green Party in Germany have just a few days ago realised – that they will lose their jobs and their Persons Roll and their Persons Quota to Transwomen.
Next a transwomen to stand for Persons Co leadership of the Green Party.
But the real reason they are just being rude and obnoxious is that the fix is in, and this is just a wee spectacle to pretend that the democratic process is still functioning in their own parties.
So to finish up, lets discuss what some opposition party has done wrong today.
I wish to ask that you do not use such misogynist language towards women posters here. You are free to disagree, but sexist name calling is not appropriate on a left wing blog.
When its avoiding the core issue and complaining about 'process'… its Karens. …or Ill call it what it is privileged older white women.
[yes, you can name privileged, older white women (assuming you are being accurate). Because when you do that the political argument you are trying to make is clear and people can argue for or against it. If you use the term Karens, which is a perjorative, it derails the debate, by people having to stop and deal with the sexism. It’s tedious af. If you use Karens again like this, I will moderate accordingly. This isn’t FB or twitter. There is an expectation that people will engage here in robust debate not lazy slurs and throw away marginalising dismissals. – weka]
Given you don't know whether those you are referring to are:
privileged, older or white,
your justification is poor, immature and murky.
The only constant that exists in the use of Karen, is the biological sex of those who have it as a name. Since it is a derogatory term, it is both a lazy, and misogynistic label.
@Ghostwhowalksnz Good God. Not everything is about transgender. And I have never stated that I do not support their wish to have an official record of their gender identity. I always have supported that wish, and still do. Link to where I have stated otherwise (alternatively, stop making shit up)
Now, despite that misdirection, I believe your commitment to your repeated use of Karen can be seen as delighting in the misogynistic term it really is. But I guess as long as social media condones it, you don't have to take responsibility.
Karen – Seems to me to be a lazy, misogynistic term that seems to be an acceptable form of "bitch". And yes, I know that when this term goes, another will take its place., but…
… try to be brave, and say what you really think without a socially accepted veneer of sophistication.
Have you looked at your birth certificate ?It requires sex, not gender.The bill refuses to denote the differences between sex and gender.Pretty poor law making
Ghostwalker this is the bit you omitted about bias.
233 Complaints of apparent bias
(1) A complaint of apparent bias on the part of a member of a select committee may be made by any member (whether or not a member of the committee) or by any person appearing or about to appear before the committee whose reputation may be seriously damaged by proceedings of the committee.
(2) A complaint of apparent bias must be made, in writing, to the chairperson.
(3) The chairperson, after considering any information or comment from the member against whom the complaint is made, decides whether the member is disqualified by reason of apparent bias.
(4) Any member of a committee who is dissatisfied with the chairperson’s decision on a complaint of apparent bias may refer the matter to the Speaker for decision. The Speaker’s decision is final.
When I rechecked Rule 233 it says Witness Expenses ?
Complaints of Apparent bias section is my quote:
Rule 237 Complaints of apparent bias
Standing Orders By Chapter Select Committes 23 Oct 2020
You may be referring to an older version, however that version doesn’t dis allow MPs showing bias towards submitters.
Im sure single issue zealots mostly get that response
It is not about people changing gender – it is about people creating a biological fiction – that they have changed SEX – and cementing that as a legal fiction. There is a process to do that now – which has the appropriate safeguards against abuse. The proposal in the SOP enables anyone to make that change by was of a Statutory Declaration with very few safeguards.
Let's have a higher standard for ourselves and our MPs that what you have proposed as acceptable. The select committee process is supposedly a part of a democratic process, not performance art. (Mind you, after attending some of the TPPA submissions this assumption was fairly quickly dispatched for me.)
There is a high degree of arrogance to misuse such processes while calling them democratic.
I believe that arrogance has also interfered with the public discussion on the bill, which leads to you making such statements as:
"For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision"
Many of the submissions I have read have not been about this at all.
It has been about the failure of the bill, and the MP's promoting it, to outline how the practical application of this bill in real life may impact on issues not related to birth certificates or transgender people.
Their (I suspect deliberate) conflation of biological sex, gender and gender identity in public statements or meetings has made any discussion fraught with misunderstandings and confusion. I hold those MP's partly responsible for the oppositional nature of public discussions. They are definitely responsible for not doing more to bring clarity into the public sphere.
If you cannot see that there has been a failure to address the possible impact on removing the safeguarding and gatekeeping process and replacing it with a statutory declaration, then you haven't gone past the basics of this issue.
The current process is not there purely as a remnant of prejudice, it was a safeguard put in place to ensure that those who wanted to make such a change had contacted the necessary services and experienced what this may mean.
Regardless, of how impatient or desperate some are to make immediate change, this safeguarding process should not be completely removed. For the well-being of those making the change. Yet, no support services or counselling or medical advice requirement is included in this self-id process. That's arguably going to be a negative as time goes on, as those who required help for other issues, sought gender change as a solution when it was perhaps not appropriate. Given the impact on mental health for many making the transition, this removal takes away the pressure on successive governments to provide necessary services. A better solution would be to demand investment in the provisions of specialist services, and for universal access to streamline the process rather than do away with it altogether. What seems like an ideal proposal may turn out to be a negative.
The other issue is, that the self-id process as proposed, will be available to all members of the public. Not just those within the transgender community.
There has been no clarity from the MP's on how they will stop those people with malicious intent from using this process to remove their personal (possible criminal) histories from public view, easily change names and do so with an intent to commit crimes, harm and fraud. If this process is misused in such a way, this is also not good for the transgender community.
And that's without getting into the impact of these changes on the biological sex class of women.
It is a well-intentioned but poorly thought out piece of legislation, presented badly by the MP's promoting it.
Yes. As overseas its actually the amateur implications of this change which have the striking impact. Many things (such as removing single sex/female) categories will be removed justified by the overarching law change. This will happen even though there is no legal requirement to change and the justification claimed will be that the law has changed requiring this.
The supplementary order to the bill was presented as non controversial, having very little effect on the general population , and "bringing us into line with overseas countries"
I'm concerned that it gives legal recognition to a vastly changed concept of what the words female and woman means.This without wide consensus or consultation with the 50% of the population who this affects.
It seems there's been a total flip, now biological sex is a cultural concept (easily discarded with hormones and medical corrections) and gender is the new destiny, originating in the womb as an innate felt reality, trumping sex.
In the process of ratifying the new orthodoxy , and in the name of inclusivity , natal women are neutered, their breasts not to be mentioned in connection with milk, the femaleness of their periods reduced to desexed menstruating bodies.
We can't say pregnant women it seems , for risk of upsetting those who deny their material sex in favour of a preferred gender Ashley Bloomfield could have said pregnant men and women but perhaps he opted for brevity.
I'm very wary of changes in language to fit a new orthodoxy, pushed in large part by academia in the social sciences .
If you remove the sex class then you no longer have 'discrimination on the basis of sex'.
One day some Persons with prostates will realise that they too lost their sex status, but by then it will be too late.
What i want to know is, if sex is removed, say a Cop were to arrest you, can you be cavity searched by a Transwomen? Must a female cop cavity search a transwomen in a prison? Can transmen be drafted? Can in the future persons with intact reproductive facilities be compelled to breed children for those that have been neutered in the name of trans? Will be a surrogate incubator be a career choice for persons who no longer find employment? Same for the production of human milk, can a person be compelled by Winz to be a wet nurse? If a child is born to a person and a transwomen (who is the ejaculator in this case) will the state be the parent, as persons in prison can not consent to sex? And so on and so forth.
Already in a woman's rape crisis refuge in Scotland, a distraught woman victim asked to have a true female deal with her and administer the rape kit.Instead she was chided and told if she would not accept a transwoman (who knows what stage of transition)she would just have to stomach it and get over her bigotry.
Gender Identity is the new Immortal Soul. Anybody who supports the separation of Church and State should be concerned by this new ideology which seeks to use the levers of the State to privilege it above other belief systems. There is no more physiological evidence for the possession of a gender identity than there is for the possession of an immortal soul. And we all know what happened last time the populace was required to accept the beliefs of its rulers.
UK Labour now openly identifying as unelectable is basically healthy. Under Corbyn they were still making it a secret that they didn't want to be elected.
and a trans woman from the UK Debbie Hayton, who is I understand a science teacher also submitted. She is against gender self ID as she says it will back fire against trans people as women will protect their spaces “they have to”
Never mind, them persons/people/others will get used to their new status of person/people/other. And frankly we should abolish 'persons' rolls, or 'quota persons' they are as defunct as much as same ‘sex’ spaces.
No, I just followed the link that visubversa supplied and found the submission he had made.
From what I can see he is a blogger, architect and contributor to some online media sources.
The reference he makes to the redacted and poor RIS (Regulatory Impact Statement) was mentioned by a commentator a while ago. I did have a look at the time, but am not familiar with the regular form or nature of it, so couldn't comment on its comparison to others.
Thanks for the link. The way she writes about her acceptance of herself after many years as a trans woman chimes in with what I've taken from discussions with a person in my wider family circle who transitioned more than 20 years ago, and these discussions (and my experiences as a biological woman) are where my thoughts about this legislation fit.
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
So why is the government not considering making it mandatory for other risk based industries such as construction workers/road workers as well as work places where interaction with the public is high?
Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that we now have vaccines in the country and thus people that were stuck in Group 3 and 4 can actually get vaccinations?
Sorry, I forgot to put quote marks around the main paragraph:
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
That was the conclusion based on their responses – hesitancy due to misinformation. But they soon changed their minds when it became mandatory.
No-one is suggesting it should be across the board, but obviously making it mandatory for all high risk areas is a no-brainer.
Is this just me feeling a rant is coming on. Michael Venus is "thinking about" sueing the Gov because he cannot secure an MIQ spot. Firstly he is a professional sportsman and should be expecting problems flying in and out of the country and just grow a spine and get on with it. he is now going on to San Diego presumably to another fixture.
Secondly his wife and two young children are joining him there plus his mother. His mother is joining them and has quit her job as an emergency department nurse, a sorely needed job which will be missed and training will take up valuable time to replace her. Reason being for her to be going is that she will be a stay at home mum as Venus's wife will be working over there.
Now bugger me, Venus surely has sufficient PA earnings that he could afford a nanny for his kids and secondly why should it be an expectation that his mother will have to take over his wife's role. His mum may be more than happy to do this but the sense of entitlement Venus has, for thinking of sueing the Government and the cheek of even asking his mum to look after his kids.
Sorry but I am over entitled prats and their whinging and whining. Grow a spine Venus and get a life.
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
Apart from your dislike of persons discussing the issue, could you explain how you compare a current political action i.e. the discussion of bill that has wide ramifications in this country to the US election?
And this is the open Mike? So why not discuss it here, other then that some persons may not disagree with what some other persons have to say?
I have no dislike of any person having discussions on this issue although sometimes take offence at some of the language used. The comparison with the US election, as I stated, was based on the level of clogging up Open Mike. I am not trying to stifle your conversation but suggesting people from either side could CHOOSE to go to a dedicated post to voice their opinions on this topic.
As you say being such a critical situation affecting 50% of this countries population, I would have thought you would welcome the suggestion to have a daily post dedicated to the discussion until the Bill is finalised.
I'd like discussion to stay on Open Mike. The media have blacked out this issue of the BMDRR. So I kind of see it as my civic duty to get some information out to others.
I'm sure it has been done before. That is… a rolling post for a specific subject which is ongoing and controversial, thus freeing up OP for more general subject matter.
I am not sure what the language is you are referring to. I think you called me on transgender ideology. I hopefully clarrified to you that it is the ideology and how it is being imposed that I have a big problem with.
As I said to Ad yesterday I have been commenting on TS since 2013. I have never been warned, banned or had a threat of a ban in all that time.
I think I am pretty reasonable with my comments. I have had a lot of stuff chucked at me, but only when I am commenting on this issue. I have been accused of coming across as unhinged, I have been told I am stupid, I have been told I side with the idiot right wingers and I had it implied I made some sort of lewd suggestion about someone taking their daughter into a change room.
I post on this site, because there is a media black out about this bill. What I reported today was pretty factual about the. a Select Committee. Many regular commentators were keen to engage about this topic.
I suppose I am hoping at some stage some of the people on this site who aren't supportive of those of us who are gender critical may actually be able to acknowledge that there is a problem for women and girls with gender ideology and the attempt to legislate for self identification. Already male bodied people are turning up in women's spaces, eg. a transwoman in a change room watching women and teen girls change. I will never stop trying to bring this to peoples attention, because it is not o.k.
Attempted public discussions around the issue, well – I’m sure you can find some cancelled ones.
Just as I’m sure you can find some that weren’t cancelled.
Molly, one of Anker's assertions @12.1.1.3 was that "there is a media black out about this bill."
As "this bill" has been referred to in a few media reports (not a lot, I would agree), it seems inflammatory to mischaracterise the paucity of reporting as a "media black out", and I believe it’s unlikely to foster further dialogue.
Just my opinion – we can agree to disagree – peace.
Molly, the only times I have engaged on this topic is when I have taken offence at the language being used directed at the Trans Community. With your "be quiet, be quiet" narrative you are wrong. As I have stated above, today I have asked for a daily post dedicated to the discussions, that is hardly trying to shut you up, but when one does take offence to a "women with penises" remark they are jumped on for highlighting its offence. I personally would rather this matter be handled by the moderators, as I had addressed them, and am happy to leave it up to them, without me making further space on Open Mike.
"None of you need bother answering, the question is rhetorical. " and which you walked away from.
Open Mike 26/08/2021 which was more productive, but showed a tendency for you to say what you wanted, which was responded to, but you walked away again instead of addressing what other commentators had said. This pattern of expecting and receiving a response, but not returning the courtesy has been noticeable on this issue.
This pattern is not a discussion, it is a lecture.
I have not lectured any of you, you however!. I have highlighted when offensive remarks (imho) have been made, and no I am not going back to each thread to highlight them again, many of you have been party to the threads so will be well aware of the words used so I will not re-hash them. I will be very happy to have a discussion with Weka, who I addressed the last comment you mentioned to. This comment was addressed to the Moderators and as such we can, as Anker has done, and Sabine has alluded to, wait with patience to see what Weka or other moderators have to say, and/or voice your opinion to them why continuing the topic on Open Mike is a good idea. .
No, RBO. I think you are mistaken in thinking you have made a genuine attempt at discussion and sharing viewpoints. Despite people taking time to engage and respond to each of your comments in regards to content, you have given no indication in your comments that you have considered the content in theirs.
That is not a robust discussion, when all the listening is happening on one side. That is a lecture.
And you have been asked to provide a proof to your assertation that offensive language against the trans community was used, and used in order to offend.
Again, you are complaining about such language being used, and again you provide no link, nothing at all.
As far as i am concerned, moderators/authors on tis page have left various posts to discuss various issues. However not a single on of them has opened a post about this submission/hearing farce that is currently ongoing, other then Weka – and i think AD and MickeySavage who did a post in favour of it. Today however, not one Author did.
But maybe you could let us all know what you would like us to discuss on the open mike? Maybe the 'vaccine mandate', the locking up of people who may refuse to take vaccinations, the rubbishing of peoples stuck overseas or here due to no spaces in MIQ or no flights that would fit MIQ? Maybe you would like to discuss childhood poverty and that of the poor parents? Maybe you would like to discuss the medical services that can't be accessed by many people because AKL is in lockdown and will remain in lockdown for the foreseeable future? Maybe you would like to discuss the rental shortage, the extortionist prices for human habitat?
What would be an appropriate thing to discuss on the opne mike in your view?
I should make the effort, but the people dominating the discussion at TS seem to regard any opposing position as bias, claim that they're being silenced, and/or argue the people with a different position are victimising them. And then when they get told TS isn't viewed as a safe space, some of them have a little discussion about how they can't see why that might be, throw in a bit of patronising rephrasing that they think should solve whatever problem there is even though they can't see it, then a couple decide that the complaint was just a weapon used to victimise them.
I just want the bill voted on. Even if it fails this time around (or has some "civil union"-style compromise), sooner or later it'll pass.
At least give us a link to a contribution of yours when you could be "fucked" to talk with integrity on this topic, then I'll give credit to your "any more".
Taking a deep breath, because although we can play this point scoring game all day, it is pointless.
I support the ability of transgender people to have a streamlined process that enables them to get official government documentation that records their declared gender identity. However, I think there are issues with how they are proposing to do so.
In particular, the ability to self-id without the requirement for the presence of support services. I think this is a negative for the transcommunity long-term. Also, there seems to be little proposed in the way of safeguarding the process from those who are not in the transgender community, but who may use it with ill intent.
Can you really not entertain the thought that there may be negative impacts from this proposed method?
Except in countries where similar legislation has been passed, what you consider only "theoretically possible impacts" have occurred in real life, thereby rendering them "probable impacts".
I have not found a submission against the Bill, that state that they do not believe transgender people should not have access to documentation that records their preferred identity (although, I am sure there are some). I have randomly looked at about 40, and couldn't find one that stated that objection. The submissions were about the failure to safeguard both the transgender community and those in the wider community from the misuse of process and/or the failure to provide guidance or reassurance on possible negative impacts on the safeguards put in place for the biological sex class of women.
Make no mistake. I believe the MP's who are promoting this Bill have done an appalling job of predicting, and providing suitable responses to these concerns. Their failure to do so in part is responsible for an inability to publicly discuss this topic with genuine intent to resolve it to the benefit of all.
The differing understandings of the words sex, gender, gender identity, women, men, male, female etc makes the whole topic a minefield of misunderstandings and bad assumptions. People are often not even using the same language. How do we overcome that primary obstacle?
I fully support finding a streamlined method of providing transgender people with official government documentation.
I believe a truly progressive government would provide that by ensuring that any transgender person would have immediate access to counselling/medical/support services that facilitate that option.
By doing that instead of removing that safeguard, we ensure that those in the transgender community (which has a high percentage of mental health issues) at least has one guaranteed point of contact with such services. (Similar to the requirement of pregnant women to have a midwife).
This means that support services need to be invested in and grown. Removing the safeguard process, gives successive governments (think National and ACT) the option of reducing these services without regard.
That's one consideration that may be interesting to discuss with you, if you think you have the solution. The other issue with self-id is the ability of those not in the transgender community to misuse the process with the intent to commit harm. I would genuinely be interested in how you think that can be avoided.
Bluntly, the fact that after years of implementation overseas the only negative impacts people point to seem to be individual cases (that are often highly debatable or talk radio reckons) rather than rates suggests to me the negatives of this largely administrative bill are still more theoretical than probable.
McFlock, unfortunately we are repeating the pattern where we are talking past each other. Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect, and can easily be rebutted with a few internet searches. But you have stated more than once your refusal to follow provided links, so there is no point in doing so.
If you get to a place where you think we can actually converse with a genuine intent to solve this discussion issue, then we can give it another go. ie. would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I believe that solution works both for increasing access to services for the transgender community while solving the issue of misuse of process from those without. Perhaps you can propose a better one.
(Just as an aside, do you believe me and others when I make affirmations regarding support for the transgender community or do you consider them false?)
Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect,
This is the other issue. That's not actually what I wrote, nor certainly intended to imply. There was one discussion at TS (about a trans woman in a US prison ISTR) that did in fact resolve to being some talkback wonk, but I did not say that all cases were restricted to talkback radio. But you jumped on that interpretation as evidence that I'm arguing in bad faith.
Similarly with my refusal to look at some links – particularly when I've already spent half a damned day looking for and reading a judgement that was mentioned (and misinterpreted) in a tweet linked by a commenter.
That's not my bad faith, that's me having limited time and inclination to check the content that the original commenter should have checked before linking.
I apologise for paraphrasing incorrectly, but that is how it came across to me, even on the re-read. There have been numerous incidents related on TS, and again, easily found on the internet, about the harms on both the transgender and wider society by the use of an administration only process for self-id. One incident where you got frustrated is not an excuse for not informing yourself independently. And once again, you are taking issue with how we are talking rather than what we are saying.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Wrestling scores, excerpts from judgements, anecdotes about predators being thrown into womens prison wings, fathers being locked up for "using the wrong pronoun"… cherry picked, out of context, talkback radio, outright misleading (he was done for repeatedly violating suppression orders by giving his kid's specific medical info to the press against the kid's, the kid's mother's, and the court's wishes).
Those aren't the only instances, just the ones off the top of my head.
Then the flipside is how few comments have been made about Tavistock winning their appeal. Quite a few before the appeal came out. This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up – the point of the observation is that people tend to post links to support their position and that's fine if the links are accurate. But in this debate they seem to be largely assessed on surface value, and all too often fail accuracy checks that the commenters should have done.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Just noticed this paragraph. Missed the Q the first time.
Was it this bit
would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
Actually, McFlock, there are submissions from within the transcommunity that object to the self-id provisions in the bill.
It would also be an indication of genuine engagement if you provided more in regards to this discussion than "they said so". I would suggest that the burden of informing your opinion should not rely solely on the testimony of those you have relationships with. The issue is much wider and far-reaching than the personal views of a few people.
This is a societal change, not just a legislative one. It also affects women as a sex class, because it affects sports, awards, services, spaces, quotas, statistics etc that relate to that class.
Others within the transcommunity and those concerned about the impact on the laws and societal mores than affect the biological sex class of women, have brought up those concerns more than once, only to be dismissed as transphobic.
Were you ever supportive of the idea of single-sex spaces? If you understood the need for them before, why has this changed?
Are you supportive of the inclusion of religious women (eg. Muslim), modest women or young women and girls in community facilities? Do you understand that the presence of self-identified male bodied people in those spaces might well result in the exclusion of these biological women from those facilities? How do you, and those who require validation from inclusion in women-only spaces despite male bodies, provide inclusion for those women?
Those examples you have provided are also out of context. The Tavistock ruling, is concerning. You are right. I didn't know it had been overturned, but I do know that I consider that to be a problem rather than a reason to celebrate.
As someone currently on hormone suppression treatment, it is no walk in the park. And I know that my insecurity as a teenager regarding my developing body, and my disconnect with "normal" would have predisposed me to possible solutions that I would have had no ability to provide informed consent for. That may have led to further treatment that rendered me sterile, and unable to function sexually. Do you really think teens have the capability to understand this?
You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology. I see it as what happens when safeguarding and wider considerations are thrown to the wind. We will end up with harm being done to many more than Keira Bell. Don't ask me to celebrate that result.
Again, my opinion is not solely based on the opinions of people I know. It's a combination of that and what the trans community seem to go for. No group agrees completely – there were probably some women who opposed women having the vote, for whatever reason. But the overall direction? That can be seen.
Similarly, "You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology." is actually almost the precise opposite of what I wrote: "This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up".
As for what teens can consent to, many of them are smarter than you give them credit for, and some have very good reasons for not wanting their caregivers invovled in decisions about their reproductive organs. Sure, there should be clear criteria on establishing the capacity for and existence of informed consent. In the UK, that's called the Gillick test. It's a clinical process, not the business of the courts.
Appealing against that doesn't just affect trans patients, it affects every young person needing sexual health services of all kinds but not wanting their parents' involvement in that process.
BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious.
So, no worries about the probable exclusion of some women in women's spaces then. And once again, no answering to the questions regarding your previous support for women only spaces, and why this has changed.
As far as I am aware, the Gillick competence test was created for the prescription of contraception to minors. Fit for purpose, and used to provide medication that on cessation would no longer have an effect. This successful use, has been used to justify the provision of off-label medications, which may have permanent effects, to minors.
I think this is a problem. It is also similar to referring to the harm of gay conversion practices, and conflating that to mean that affirmation only models are the only acceptable approaches when dealing with teenagers and young people.
These are not one-sized fits all solutions. Each situation needs a purpose built solution.
"BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious."
I am actually, because as I mentioned before the language used in these discussions is so fluid and amorphous it is hard to keep track. I perhaps should have used "gender identity ideology" but you can give me the updated appropriate term to refer to. (Given that you have probably an updated definition of the word woman that I don't ascribe to, let's just try to understand what each other is saying rather than get caught up in the semantics.)
jesus christ, did you ever consider the idea that maybe concentrating on one complex topic in a comment and trying really hard to avoid pissing you off might, just might, not be an intentional slight or an indication that I have zero consideration for the other complex topics in this comment thread?
But no, keep seeking out the worst possible inference to make.
That way me removing myself from this thread right now is obviously some example of "no debate" or bad faith rather than exasperation at someone who thinks the lack of "identity" is probably the insulting bit and not the presence of "ideology".
Jesus Christ, McFlock. Instead of being outraged for repeated attempts to engage and requests for you to read comments in their entirety before responding, perhaps you should remove yourself from this thread.
BTW, I don't feel slighted. I feel like someone who continually has to remind you that you are not responding to content. I would only be slighted, if I thought this was done intentionally in an attempt to not engage. I actually think you are unaware that you do it. That's why I ask specific questions, so that the conversation can go back on track.
I remain unlearned in the right phrase to use in regards to gender identity ideology. Do you actually have one to provide? Because statements that regard biological sex as a state of mind is a belief. Hence, ideology.
McFlock I don't think anyone said they don't see how it might be that the Trans community would find this an unsafe space.
I think the trans community are only seeking affirmation. They are entitled to want that. But they may not find that on the Standard. As I said the Standard is a place for robust and rigourous debate.
I can't understand your bit "throw in a bit of patronizing…."
Women are being silenced. What do you think happened when trans activists successfully shut down their meetings.
If you can't be fucked with anymore, no problem. Just scroll down
RBO are you saying it is offensive to refer to women with penises?
We women are being told by some trans activists that women can have penises, men can give birth and lesbians can have penises (so being a lesbian is no longer about being self sex attracted, it is about being gender identity attracted).
Do you understand why some of us don't accept the above statements?
In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions, I will be accused of running away if I don't respond to all your questions. I am happy to wait until Weka returns or a Site Moderator gives an indication that they do or don't agree with my suggestion of a special daily post for you to discuss this topic and anyone else from either side can join you. I trust you can do the same.
"In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions," – but this is a descriptor used by the transgender community itself.
Oh, that's right. Stop asking me questions or giving me information. Be quiet, be quiet.
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
It's fine to ask. I can't see the justification for the amount of work involved for an author/mod (it's a fair amount of work). With the US elections every day there were long, heated debates that tended to take over OM, so dedicated posts took the heat out by not annoying so many people that were sick of it, and it made it easier to moderate.
That's not happening with the BDMRR debates (there are days, sometimes a lot, when there's been no discussion at all).
If you don't like the topic, my suggestion is to scroll on by. I have to do this with various TS topics that go through phases eg vaccines at the moment (although as a mod I actually have to scan them to make sure no-one is being an arse)
I certainly don't wish to cause anyone any more work on this issue. You asked the other night why there wasn't more engagement from the other side of this issue. May I suggest the piling on, from a passionate few, for even asking for a special daily post to discuss it, may answer that question.
For the record I do not, as Anker suggests below, wish to get any "pesky women off Open Mile" I however, can happily take another option of rather having to scroll passed, I can take a self-imposed avoidance of Open Mike until after the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill has been finalized.
I agree that pile ons can be counter productive. In this instance, your request was fine, and your replies after that even handed and point, so thanks for that. I find that if too many people are engaging with stuff I am saying it's useful to pick which I want to reply to and focus on those. Or choose not to engage at all (in this case you asked the mods a question, so there was no obligation to respond to anyone else). This is a really useful skill to develop in robust debate culture. One person's pile on is another person's water off a duck's back. I wouldn't class yesterday as a pile on, the people that replied to you were likewise evenhanded and making coherent points. Everyone was ok in what they did despite the apparently conflict.
I will say that some of the response yesterday was based on how you engaged on the topic the other day. I have two thoughts about this. One is that there's no obligation here to respond to anyone other than moderators. However, it does tend to piss people off if someone says something controversial and then says don't talk to me about that.
I also think that where you have been saying you find some of the language about trans people offensive, you probably need to explain what you mean if you are going to stay in the conversations eg women with penises is a common concept in trans circles online, I don't know what is offensive about it because you haven't explained. I would also say that being specific rather than general improves debate eg link to where someone has said 'women with penises' and then we can see what you actually mean (especially the mods).
Thanks, I acknowledge I have read this. I wont rehash the offensive comments but even you have, in conversations, acknowledged them on occasions so I didn't see the need to go over them again, as I thoroughly explained why I felt them offensive at the time. I bow to your judgment and will take time off from Open Mike so that I don't get caught up again trying to defend against the hurt that words can cause on a maligned community. Regards, RBO
The selfish, entitled arse certainly owes an apology to his family, Maniapoto iwi, search and rescue folk and members of the local community who gave a substantial amount their time and resources to look for him and his kids.
Yes, wonderful news. I'm sure most of us assumed they were dead, and the news headlines had certainly moved on. Whatever the personal circumstances, an outcome to celebrate.
Key would have never openly displayed going to his chosen friendly journalists every presser and feeding them questions.
(to be fair that is probably bollocks sorry. He would have feed questions he needed. They all do, but I am just saying he wouldn't have been so blatant about it)
All good though.
At least now we know what the announcement will be next week.
[Yes, it is bollocks, but you said it anyway. So, you can now provide support for all your assertions in your comment, including that they all (!) feed questions to the friendly (!) journalists [at] every (!) presser. Failing to do so will cost you a month.
Or you can withdraw your trolling bollocks, apologise, and take a week off for wasting my time, unless your apology comes across as genuine, this time, given that you say sorry a lot, but it is obviously rather meaningless coming from you – Incognito]
I just said I was wrong about Key not doing the same thing.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it. But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked, so well done people, in the grand scheme of things, you have rocked in level 3.
[Hmm, I’d already put you in the Black List for a week, but then dinner called. I see that you slightly edited your comment. So, I’ve slightly edited my note for you that I’d written before dinner.
Good to know that you know that Key is/was not doing the same thing. I’m so relieved that you clarified just that one part of your comment.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it.
It is not about what I want; I gave you an opportunity to correct and redeem yourself with a genuine apology. You did not really grasp that opportunity with both hands.
I cannnot forget anything you say here, unless I delete it and then it still shows up in the Trash folder and I have to delete it there too. What is said, is said and stays said.
You cannot have it both ways; mean what you say, say what you mean. If you have nothing to say then don’t say anything.
You are a disingenuous time-wasting commenter, but I’ll give you one more chance – Incognito]
But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked,
God, I hope you're right cos my fringe is a hanging over me eyes and I can't see proper. Far more important than anything else. 😉
Edit: I watched chris T and I'm certain you got it wrong, but can understand why you thought it. JA has a policy of kicking off question time with the two TV political editors Jessica Mutch-McKay and Tova O'Brien on alternate days. It was Tova's turn today.
Although, having said that, I am very concerned we are going to look like this in early November.
Victoria has recorded 1438 new locally acquired Covid-19 infections, another daily record, as health authorities warn the state has not yet reached the peak of the outbreak.
Whatever you think of the PM's answers, to suggest that it's a "rehearsed patsy question" is a solid 9 out of 10 on the conspiracy theory scale (10 involves lizards and aliens).
I think it's possible to debate the issue without bringing in individual trans people and using them as political fodders. Especially in this case because SBE has had a lot of stupid, mean and transphobic arguments directed at them and about them in public.
I'm also concerned that you can't see the problem of asking what you did in response to Sabine's comment. It's none of our business whether any individual NB/trans person has a cervix or not, and it's completely unnecessary for us to know or debate about that person. It's also irrelevant to the issues Sabine pointed to.
Your new e-mail address has now been approved and your comments will now appear freely without being caught by Auto-Moderation unless something else triggers it.
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A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
“I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
.“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
“It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet – is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
Bob Edlin writes – And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ HeraldThomas CoughlanSimeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
TL;DR:Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it: We want our country to be a ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading → ...
Ele Ludemann writes – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
What was that judge thinking?Peter Williams writes – That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop:Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
Buzz from the BeehiveThe text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary. It can be quickly analysed ...
For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
Questions need to be asked on both sides of the worldPeter Williams writes – The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop:The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
TL;DR:Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
Bob Edlin writes – The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
Every year, in the Budget, Parliament forks out money to government agencies to do certain things. And every year, as part of the annual review cycle, those agencies are meant to report on whether they have done the things Parliament gave them that money for. Agencies which consistently fail to ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – Recent events in American universities point to an underlying crisis of coherent thinking, an issue that increasingly affects the progressive left across the Western world. This of course is nothing new as anyone who can either remember or has read of the late ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
The New Zealand public voted for a change in direction at the 2023 general election and that is exactly what this coalition government has been delivering in its first 100 days. There was an immediate focus on the economy, easing the cost of living, cracking down on law and order ...
The Government has left the health system as an afterthought, announcing half-baked targets at the last minute of their 100-day plan, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
Kiwis are still waiting for their promised cost of living support after 100 days of a National Government that is taking us backwards, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
100 days of National taking NZ backwardsThe National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
The Government must commit to funding free and healthy school lunches, as thousands of people sign the petition to keep them, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti says. ...
If the Government was serious about moving families into public housing, they would build more houses so there is actually somewhere for people to go. ...
The free and healthy school lunches programme feeds our kids, helps them to learn, and saves families money – but it is at risk under this Government, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
The Government’s proposed changes to Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) add almost nothing new and are merely an attempt to distract from its plans to loosen gun laws, police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and justice spokesperson Dr Duncan Webb said. ...
The great Victorian era English politician Lord Macauley stood in the British House of Parliament and said, "The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm".He understood and outlined even way back then, the significant role and influence media have in a democracy. ...
The government’s attack on Māori health this week is committing tangata-whenua to a premature death, says Te Pāti Māori. “The government have begun their onslaught on Māori health with the abolishment of the Māori Health Authority and smokefree laws in the same day” said health spokesperson and co-leader, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. ...
New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April. ...
Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand. Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness. It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology. It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
This year’s Pacific Language Weeks celebrate regional unity and the contribution of Pacific communities to New Zealand culture, says Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti. Dr Reti announced dates for the 2024 Pacific Language Weeks during a visit to the Pasifika festival in Auckland today and says there’s so ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Curran, Associate Professor of Ecology, Lincoln University, New Zealand Getty Images/Gerald Corsi In the latest move to reform environmental laws in New Zealand, the coalition government has introduced a bill to fast-track consenting processes for projects deemed to ...
Uber has argued it does not have as much control over drivers as the unions suggest, and wants a judgment ruling that drivers are employees and not contractors set aside and sent back to the Employment Court. The 2022 ruling followed a three-week hearing in which four drivers sought to ...
What can and can’t be purchased by disabled people or their carers has been slashed in an effort by the Ministry of Disabled People Whaikaha to save money. The purchasing guidelines, a set of rules that sets out what can be purchased using the various streams of Government disability funding, ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Tod Wright and Hien Nguyen, Fiscal incidence in New Zealand: The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes in tax year 2018/19 . Analyses of the distributional impact of taxation and government ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Cory Davis, Boston Hart and Benjamin Stubbing, Household cost-of-living impacts from the Emissions Trading Scheme and using transfers to mitigate regressive outcomes . This Analytical Note ...
A coalition of public transport and climate organisations, united as ‘Transport for All’, is actively opposing the government’s transport proposals. The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) includes plans for higher fares for public transport, ...
Greater Wellington is inviting feedback on proposed changes to its Revenue and Financing Policy. The Revenue and Financing Policy covers the Council’s various sources of funding, and how the cost of services is shared across the region. This includes ...
Labour has conceded it could have done more to deal with disruptive state housing tenants while in government but says the current coalition is going too far. ...
The band has asked their record label to issue a cease and desist to stop the NZ First leader using their 1997 hit to support his ‘misguided political views’. “I get knocked down, but I get up again,” blared through the speakers on Sunday as Winston Peters took the stage ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Food rationing is underway in remote areas in Papua New Guinea’s Highlands following torrential rain and flash flooding. More than 20 people have been reported dead in Chimbu Province. In nearby Enga Province, the centre of last month’s massacre, a 15-year-old boy has been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Hughes, Lecturer, Research School of Management, Australian National University After months of debate and intrigue, the AFL’s 19th and newest team, the Tasmania Devils, finally launched its jumper, logo and colours in Devonport this week. The Devils will wear green, ...
Brannavan Gnanalingam reviews the debut novel by Saraid de Silva.One of the most baffling things for children who move to a new country is what their parents’ (or grandparents’) lives were like prior to moving – for kids in particular, they’re too busy trying to fit in in their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Gaunson, Associate Professor in Cinema Studies, RMIT University Narelle Portanier/Binge “If you don’t know who your mob are, you don’t know who you are,” Detective Andrea “Andie” Whitford (played by Leah Purcell) is told early into the new crime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Klein, Associate professor, Australian National University It’s commonly accepted that women do the vast majority of caregiving in Australian society. But less appreciated is that Indigenous women do larger amounts of unpaid care than any other group. Working with the Aboriginal ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Joe Biden and Donald Trump have both secured their parties’ nominations for the November 5 United States general election by winning a ...
Comment: There has been a striking contrast in trans-Tasman interest about Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi’s visit to New Zealand and Australia. While the Australian press has been full of articles about the visit – including his curious decision to meet with former prime minister and China booster Paul Keating ...
After years of pressuring banks and other institutions to stop investing in fossil fuels, climate campaigners are making some progress. So how does divestment work?For years, climate activists have been pushing banks and other big institutions to divest from fossil fuels. New research from climate advocacy group 350 Aotearoa ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. The three young Polynesians are part of a K-pop fan community in Tāmaki Makaurau. It’s one of many that have sprung up worldwide as K-pop has gone ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. This one-off documentary presents three intimate portraits of young Polynesians who are pulled into a Korean cultural phenomenon. K-POLYS is directed by Litia Tuiburelevu, Produced by Hex ...
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The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming comments from Christopher Luxon this morning recommitting to ‘no new taxes’ as part of Budget 2024. “Mr Luxon’s refusal at the Post-Cabinet press conference yesterday to repeat the ‘no new taxes’ promise ...
SAFE is urgently calling on the Environment Committee to reject the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill, and is urging New Zealanders to rally behind the call. The proposed Bill, currently under consideration with the Environment select committee, ...
Teammates who spend all their time picking fights with spectators are only helpful for the other team, writes Madeleine Chapman. Anyone who has ever played a team sport competitively, particularly as a child and particularly, for some reason, basketball, will know that there’s a lot of politics involved. While there ...
The long-running Wellington music festival is too focused on the Jim Beam-ness and not enough on the Homegrown-ness.There is something about Homegrown that’s difficult to place. A barely perceptible-ness. Like feeling a ghost is watching you from the corner of the room but when you look, there’s nothing there. ...
The latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor reveals that fewer New Zealanders believe crime / law and order is one of the top issues facing our country. In 2018, Ipsos New Zealand started tracking the key issues facing New Zealand. In this wave ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Deputy Program Director, Budgets and Government, Grattan Institute Australia’s political donations rules are woefully inadequate, but donations reform is finally on the agenda. The federal government has signalled its interest in reform and will soon begin briefing MPs on its ...
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As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a teacher explains why he and his partner are in frugal mode – and how they’re making it work. Gender: Male Age: 35Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: I am an intermediate school teacher and my partner is ...
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The finance minister is denying that there’s a $5.6b shortfall in paying for the government’s campaign promises, including tax cuts. At his post-cabinet press conference yesterday, the PM refused to rule out new taxes to pay for the cuts, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s ...
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Kāinga Ora is New Zealand’s biggest residential landlord, housing more than 180,000 vulnerable people in more than 67,000 properties. Yesterday the government announced a crackdown on its tenants who fall behind on rent. One longtime Kāinga Ora tenant shares her experience.For 18 years I lived in a 1960s standalone ...
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When the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act was introduced in 2009 it was firmly targeted at gangs and drugs. The legislation means police no longer need a conviction to seize assets that criminals can’t prove were paid for legitimately, as long as their alleged offences are punishable by more than a ...
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Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
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.
Such delightful birds, and so curious, even when they realise you’re not the tiwaka wahine they were expecting.
https://i.imgur.com/LF6VU25.gif
Tīwaiwaka wahine would be female fantail; Gezza, but ka te pai for making the effort. Less poetically, it was probably after the insects that were stirred up by your presence – which is why they seem to be such a friendly bird to humans.
It’s got quite a few Māori names, Forget now.
“tīwakawaka
1. (noun) fantail – a small, friendly, insect-eating bird of the bush and domestic gardens which has a distinctive tail resembling a spread fan.
Nā, kia mōhio tātou, ko ngā tīwaiwaka e tītakataka nei ka hura rā hoki ngā hukumaro ki runga, ka riro ko te upoko ki raro (TTT 1/10/1929:1086). / Now, we should know that fantails flit about opening their tail feathers up and with their head going down.
(Te Pihinga Study Guide (Ed. 1): 2; Te Māhuri Textbook (Ed. 2): 182;)”
It’s also known as he pīwakawaka in some other parts of te motu.
A wahine toa Māori friend of mine in her 60s up in Northland always shortens the name to tīwaka when she writes about hers up there – which is why I did. (Thanks for the reminder about the macron being needed on the ī, btw.)
PS: No, it's not after insects stirred up by me. I saw it flitting about in the trees across the stream. I'm just standing by my fence, not moving. I called it over. I know how to mimic a tīwakawaka call.
That is impressive; Gezza, my own whistling has a half octave range, and even then; there is a rather wet slurring to the pitch (probably learning brass at school messed up my embouchure habits for whistling, and other flutes). Āe, ngā reo ā-iwi certainly do make the language interesting – if it was intentional and had precedent then you're not wrong,
Kia ora for that, e hoa.
My tīwaka call is a variation on a “kissy” sound. I suck air thru my teeth. A bit hard to describe further beyond that. I can get it to sound quite loud & it carries across the stream.
Another neat trick a lady friend of mine in Huntly uses is to rub two pieces of polystyrene foam together. I tried it, & it works on my fantails here. 👍🏼
My Māori friend up north lives off grid with her partner in te Hokianga. Her tūrangawaewae is East Coast tho. She spent many years as a possum hunter & trapper. Now she’s becoming quite a tohunga rongoā.
Off to get my second shot of vaccine today; more like 9 weeks after the first than the intended 12, but school holidays start at the end of the week and I want to be over any reactions and side effects before I am being scamped 24/7 again. I had the soreness at injection site for a day or two last time, expecting the wiped-outness this time around, so have got a bunch of DVDs from the library (including the reCGed Sagan Cosmos!) and arranged for a friend to come over to watch them (and over me) the next couple of evenings. I did the same for them a couple of weeks back when they had their 6 week jab. Though that was more snuggling together in front of a winter fire.
Vacci-dating is a very 2021 form of social interaction.
I went through Lawrence of Arabia yesterday with 4 panadol over the day.
Better today.
Ad, I was trying to imagine what your pain and torment was like, having likened it to that of Lawrence of Arabia. Was it like suffering riding a camel cross-legged across a stony desert all day with little water? Still, he got to be a wise man, did TE Lawrence, after the experience, with his "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".
Then I realised you had just got through a bad day by watching the film, not by reliving it. I'm glad you're better. My second jab took my energy so that a usual Sunday morning hill walk climbing 400 metres had me stopping five times on the uphill stretch-usually one stop 'for the view'.
Lawrence taught me that the major religions all came out of the desert as a result of encounters with open, starry night skies. I still seek spiritual solace that way- without the panadol, but sometimes with a wee dram……..
5.30am this morning you could see an inky Manukau Heads from South Titirangi Road with a wee wreath of showers, and stars coming through.
Well done.
😀 True, & wise.
COVID is certainly the disease of the unvaccinated according to healthcare workers. And now thanks to “Roger’n’Ruth’s” toxic neo liberal legacy, it is also the disease of the alienated working class poor.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452596/covid-19-team-helps-auckland-families-frightened-of-being-tested
It is pretty clear what needs to be done, albeit obviously too late for this current virus outbreak.
–Pay all citizens a basic income via IRD (recovered via taxation from higher earners)
–Fare free public transport and free Wifi nationwide
–Rent control at all times
–Rent freeze and mortgage holiday during any lockdowns
–State house and apartment mega build, emergency housing and homeless tiny house build in all towns and regions
But what is the Govt.’s latest move? relax conditions for migrant workers just as upward pressure on wages was building in a tighter labour market! Yes migrant workers have been treated appallingly for ever and redress is needed, but really employers and the NZ petit bourgeois just get such favoured treatment from this majority Labour Govt. Bring on 2023 and 2026 I say.
good ideas.
Poor old conservative John Key. He doesn't get the respect now that he believes that he deserves.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/jess-berentson-shaw-do-vaccine-incentives-help-hesitant-people?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=c00f98c647-Daily+Briefing+30.09.2021&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-c00f98c647-95522477
Need to get our vax-hesitant gangs to work. Joint for a jab anyone?
Need to get the local kaumatua to pay them a visit, or to ask them to come to the marae to discuss getting jabs?
It's a good scheme – time to break with that strange conservative reflex of Peter Dunne's that has NZ trailing liberalization even of countries as backward as the US.
Better for everyone that gangs are mellow – and vaccinated.
Apropos the notion in National's pandemic response of purpose-built quarantine facilities near Auckland airport to open in early 2022. On CNN today:
China has built a 5,000-room quarantine centre for overseas arrivals.
– A (NZ) $378 million, 5,000-room quarantine facility for incoming travellers opening in Guangzhou.
– Size of 46 football fields, took less than three months to be built from scratch on outskirts of the city.
– Travellers transferred directly from the airport on buses, confined to their rooms for at least two weeks. Three meals a day delivered by robots — minimized direct contact with staff.
– More than 4,000 workers assigned to the construction site. The facility completed earlier this month and a first batch of 184 medical staff moved in last week
– Designed as bubble isolated from rest of city – travellers, AND workers placed under effective lockdown.
– Medical staff work 28 days at the facility, go through week of quarantine themselves, and another two weeks of home quarantine before allowed to go outside.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/29/china/guangzhou-covid-quarantine-center-mic-intl-hnk/index.html
That can happen in a dictatorship with unlimited resources.
NZ has a massive shortage of construction workers Shortages of building materials many imported from China supply constrictions ,lack of ships operating due to covid.
I have observed the calls to have unlimited resources, instant, dictatorship type action.
Do you think it's funny when such calls come from those who freak out and scream "Dictatorship!" when there are rules about wearing facemarks on public transport and suggestions about wearing them in public?
Don't you think it's funny when people anti a particular government demand unlimited resources, instant action then if anything is done at haste to meet the perceived needs of a situation, wail "What about consultation?!"
whoa… back up!
ROBOT WAITERS!!!
In a pandemic iso unit.
I used to bitch that we didn't have a moonbase like they said we'd have when I was a kid. Now we're getting all the sci fi at once.
New Covid-19 poster child, Ireland, has 40,000 active cases and recorded 40 deaths yesterday. Bloomberg says Ireland is the best place to be right now.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Yeah saw that yesterday 🙄
It's all about "freedom" and money.
Not to mention Bloomberg's biggest audiences are probably in the plaguelands, so Ireland's rates look pretty good by comparison..
National wants purpose built quarantine centre by early 2022. Have they been asked just how that would be done? Land to be acquired, council consents to be applied for, architects and designers selected to draw up plans, contractors and sub-contractors to be tendered for, building materials to be ordered and trades people to be hired all in the next 5-6 months for completion in early 2022. One of the nuttiest ideas ever.
Government has already been working on this for some time and National knows this. National pretends to come up with new innovative plans whilst painting the Government as a shambolic useless lot and then claiming the credit when it is actually happening AKA I told you so. Cheap lazy political point-scoring and grandstanding and not fit for Government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018814429/covid-19-many-options-on-the-table-for-purpose-built-miq-chris-hipkins
Not so hard really – especially over summer.
Shigeru Ban: Emergency shelters made from paper | TED Talk
there appears to be an almost without exception complete media black out on the Select Committee Hearing on the BMDRR Bill
So hears my update.
Select committee members are showing very overtly they are biased in favour of the bill when submitters are against the bill.
Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this biasis.
One MP , Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, posted a screenshot from the zoom call, with a submitter who opposes the bill accusing them of hate speech. This is likely defamation, but also completely undermines the Select Committee process as it amounts to intimidation. ie if you present an opposing view to the views the select committee clearly holds, you risk being put on FB and acccused of hate speech
With counting almost complete the numbers against the bill outweigh the numbers for the bill by 75 to 25%
There have been a number of Maori wahine presenting against the bill
Pasifica have also presented against the beill
Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle are part of an group of prominant older feminists who are presenting against the Bill and calling for a Royal Commission of Enquiry into sex and gender.
Stuff, Herald, TVNZ Radio NZ Newshub………..your welcome
I have been really shocked by the contempt shown towards some submitters by members of the select committee. Shamefully, for me as a Labour Party member, the worst behaviour is coming from Labour MPs. I have seen eye rolling, scrolling through phones, frankly hostile and confrontational conduct. Deborah Russell has finished a day of intemperate conduct on the select committee and gone home to tweet that she wants to shout "oh do F*ck off" to submitters.
Along with Kerekere's facebook abuse of one group submitting, and Rachel Boyack's barely concealed contempt, sitting pointedly scrolling through her phone during one group's submission, the whole process has been an appalling display of arrogance.
Committee members do not have to share the beliefs of submitters, but should have sufficient EQ to be able to listen respectfully and politely clarify points as required.
The conduct of the committee has been an absolute fiasco. Only Ian McKelvie and Nicola Griggs have shown any ability to conduct themselves appropriately. (It galls me to say this as I pathologically hate the Nats).
What on earth are the party chief whips doing, allowing this to happen? Do these MPs not know what their roles and responsibilities are? Do they not get some training on parliamentary processes and appropriate behaviour? Mallard has already said on Twitter that he has no role in sanctioning misbehaving MPs on select committees.
The whole thing has been a shameful episode for democartic processes. Labour should thank their lucky stars that the opposition are in such disarray.
Well said. Deborah Russel's attitude towards the SUFW spokesperson was disgusting.
"Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this bias"
I think you are assuming they are judges hearing evidence in court.
Rules of the House regarding Select Committes and bias is only one section and doesnt seem to cover the situation you think it does
236 Disqualification for apparent bias
A member who has (whether in the House or outside the House) made an allegation of crime or expressed a concluded view on any conduct or activity of a criminal nature, identifying by name or otherwise a person as being responsible for or associated with that crime, conduct, or activity (referred to as apparent bias), may not participate—
The Births deaths , marriages and relationships Bill is really about being able to change gender.
For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision
Regardless of one's views about the bill, members of the public should be able to submit to the select committee without fear of intimidation from MPs. If you support democratic processes, it is really important that the integrity of the select committee process is preserved. If this becomes the new standard of conduct for discussing differing views we are heading to a very dark place.
Eye rolls are intimidation ? Are you expecting patsy questions as well .
BTW which submission are you in support so we can look it up online and judge for our selves.
No eye rolls arent intimidation, but i imagine it could be intimidating to some presenters.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech. Lets call it what it is intimidation
So if I am presenting the next day and am in disagreement with this bill, it would be realistic for me to fear the same thing happening.
The hate speech thing is a smear. Its intimidation and inappropriate for a MP to do this, probably breaks the harmful digital communication lawas and is in fact libleless.
FFS I thought you guys were all about the "safe spaces". Seems like that doesn't apply to women who disagree with you.
And where are the men on the Standard? Heads buried in ideology.
Can you please link, and be specific. I looked the other day and the FB post I saw didn't quite match your description. One of the reasons we ask for links a lot here is so that people can see what is being referred to and in context. It makes discussion much better when we are all working off the same page.
Ghostwalker, try reading John Minto submission which is againgst SOP59
or the Correction Officers who has a trans kid, but is against the bill cause he has seen a number of pregnancies in women's prison due to transgender women being there.
Fowls with older prominant feminists is fantastic (Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle, a former Green MP). They are against gender id and are calling for a royal commission into sex and gender.
or save Women's Sports oral submission with one of the submitters giving evidence of how transgender females are already in women's only spaces and the Bill will only accerelate and legitimize this. She gives a case of a gym where a transwomen sat and watched as women and girls got changed. So is anyone whose pro this bill alarm bells going off yet. The gym claimed they could do nothing which probably could be challenged, but not once this bill comes in.
Their is a Pacific Island GP who is really pissed off about this bill and the Conversion therapy bill, and she claims the lack of consultation with the PI community shows how hollow the apology for the dawn raids are. The is a huge number of Asian people submitting against this bill..
There are Christians of course, Lesbian groups, Maori wahine, women, mothers. There are people who wrote things like “Just don’t”. and is the Government completely mad.
What did Minto say?
I know you may be making a point about links, but John Minto's submission can be found by clicking the pdf on this page.
(I think Anker may be watching the submissions online, so doesn't have the links)
No, I was curious what Minto said, thanks.
btw, for clarity, the difference between the two comments is that the second one is someone reporting what they saw in the video. The first is saying that a sitting MP made a defamatory statement. The latter needs to be linked. The former, it would be good if people got in the habit of putting up links, but it's not particularly contentious.
(I don't think what Kerekere did is defamatory, because I think defamation needs to be a) a specific allegation or statement, 2) made against a specific person/s. EK's behaviour is appalling though)
Thanks weka. I did make that assumption when posting the link, but thought I'd better check given we are at the sharp end of the day.
I was disillusioned with the integrity of the select committee process when I attended one of the last minute ones held in Auckland for the TPPA. Both David Shearer and David Parker remain in my memory as equivalent to the eye-rolling and disdainful behaviour Anker relates in this instance.
It strikes me as farcical to refer to consultation conducted in such a way as democratic. I criticised such behaviour when it was exhibited by a National government. I am critical of the same behaviour and lack of genuine democracy being demonstrated by members of this government.
thanks, that's very helpful, I didn't know if what the Labour/GP women are doing was out of the norm for SCs or not. Very disappointing that it's normal, as well as the disappointment for this particular group of women.
The behaviour of Russell and Kerekere on the select committee is disgusting. They really confirm my opinion never to vote Labour again.
Labour and the Greens.
What i really would like to know is if the Persons of the Green Party realise that in the end they too – like the persons of the Green Party in Germany have just a few days ago realised – that they will lose their jobs and their Persons Roll and their Persons Quota to Transwomen.
Next a transwomen to stand for Persons Co leadership of the Green Party.
But the real reason they are just being rude and obnoxious is that the fix is in, and this is just a wee spectacle to pretend that the democratic process is still functioning in their own parties.
So to finish up, lets discuss what some opposition party has done wrong today.
Karens always have that approach
This is so true.
Karens voting with their feet.
Bad bad Karen.
Maybe they need some re-education by some Transwomen and Men as to the proper function and place of Persons/Peopels/Others/Karens in society.
"bad, bad Karen".
Love it Sabine!
"persons/peoples/others/karens in society"
BTW #82
Ghostwhowalksnz….
I wish to ask that you do not use such misogynist language towards women posters here. You are free to disagree, but sexist name calling is not appropriate on a left wing blog.
When its avoiding the core issue and complaining about 'process'… its Karens. …or Ill call it what it is privileged older white women.
[yes, you can name privileged, older white women (assuming you are being accurate). Because when you do that the political argument you are trying to make is clear and people can argue for or against it. If you use the term Karens, which is a perjorative, it derails the debate, by people having to stop and deal with the sexism. It’s tedious af. If you use Karens again like this, I will moderate accordingly. This isn’t FB or twitter. There is an expectation that people will engage here in robust debate not lazy slurs and throw away marginalising dismissals. – weka]
Doubling down, a la Collins, huh?
Given you don't know whether those you are referring to are:
privileged, older or white,
your justification is poor, immature and murky.
The only constant that exists in the use of Karen, is the biological sex of those who have it as a name. Since it is a derogatory term, it is both a lazy, and misogynistic label.
So you arent happy with a label 'that isnt you'.. quelle horreur
Just imagine a whole life with much much more than a label that isnt you, but you can never change.
@Ghostwhowalksnz Good God. Not everything is about transgender. And I have never stated that I do not support their wish to have an official record of their gender identity. I always have supported that wish, and still do. Link to where I have stated otherwise (alternatively, stop making shit up)
Now, despite that misdirection, I believe your commitment to your repeated use of Karen can be seen as delighting in the misogynistic term it really is. But I guess as long as social media condones it, you don't have to take responsibility.
It's not even an accurate use of the Karen slur, so doubly sexist I think. Just any old pejorative against the crones, eh.
mod note for you.
Your point is noted
I always know when someone's arguements aren't that good. They start labelling you, Karen, Terfs.
Karen – Seems to me to be a lazy, misogynistic term that seems to be an acceptable form of "bitch". And yes, I know that when this term goes, another will take its place., but…
… try to be brave, and say what you really think without a socially accepted veneer of sophistication.
You might find yourself unrecognisable.
Sabine, this is what is happening in the Scottish Green Party.
We'll see it here
I'm cancelling my membership and monthly donation after decades of loyalty.
I don't have a party I can vote for any more.
https://andywightman.scot/archives/4634?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-i-resigned-from-the-scottish-green-party
The Labour Party Conference in England that just ended yesterday was a doozy in regards to this issue.
Mind, i have left the Labour Party in 2016. Will be voting for a third party, neither N / L nor G are at all a fit for me.
Act or if you qualify Te Maori Parti ? RIGHT… got that.
Ghostwhowalks @8.2
Have you looked at your birth certificate ?It requires sex, not gender.The bill refuses to denote the differences between sex and gender.Pretty poor law making
Ghostwalker this is the bit you omitted about bias.
233 Complaints of apparent bias
(1) A complaint of apparent bias on the part of a member of a select committee may be made by any member (whether or not a member of the committee) or by any person appearing or about to appear before the committee whose reputation may be seriously damaged by proceedings of the committee.
(2) A complaint of apparent bias must be made, in writing, to the chairperson.
(3) The chairperson, after considering any information or comment from the member against whom the complaint is made, decides whether the member is disqualified by reason of apparent bias.
(4) Any member of a committee who is dissatisfied with the chairperson’s decision on a complaint of apparent bias may refer the matter to the Speaker for decision. The Speaker’s decision is final.
When I rechecked Rule 233 it says Witness Expenses ?
Complaints of Apparent bias section is my quote:
Rule 237 Complaints of apparent bias
Standing Orders By Chapter Select Committes 23 Oct 2020
You may be referring to an older version, however that version doesn’t dis allow MPs showing bias towards submitters.
Im sure single issue zealots mostly get that response
It is not about people changing gender – it is about people creating a biological fiction – that they have changed SEX – and cementing that as a legal fiction. There is a process to do that now – which has the appropriate safeguards against abuse. The proposal in the SOP enables anyone to make that change by was of a Statutory Declaration with very few safeguards.
Let's have a higher standard for ourselves and our MPs that what you have proposed as acceptable. The select committee process is supposedly a part of a democratic process, not performance art. (Mind you, after attending some of the TPPA submissions this assumption was fairly quickly dispatched for me.)
There is a high degree of arrogance to misuse such processes while calling them democratic.
I believe that arrogance has also interfered with the public discussion on the bill, which leads to you making such statements as:
"For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision"
Many of the submissions I have read have not been about this at all.
It has been about the failure of the bill, and the MP's promoting it, to outline how the practical application of this bill in real life may impact on issues not related to birth certificates or transgender people.
Their (I suspect deliberate) conflation of biological sex, gender and gender identity in public statements or meetings has made any discussion fraught with misunderstandings and confusion. I hold those MP's partly responsible for the oppositional nature of public discussions. They are definitely responsible for not doing more to bring clarity into the public sphere.
If you cannot see that there has been a failure to address the possible impact on removing the safeguarding and gatekeeping process and replacing it with a statutory declaration, then you haven't gone past the basics of this issue.
The current process is not there purely as a remnant of prejudice, it was a safeguard put in place to ensure that those who wanted to make such a change had contacted the necessary services and experienced what this may mean.
Regardless, of how impatient or desperate some are to make immediate change, this safeguarding process should not be completely removed. For the well-being of those making the change. Yet, no support services or counselling or medical advice requirement is included in this self-id process. That's arguably going to be a negative as time goes on, as those who required help for other issues, sought gender change as a solution when it was perhaps not appropriate. Given the impact on mental health for many making the transition, this removal takes away the pressure on successive governments to provide necessary services. A better solution would be to demand investment in the provisions of specialist services, and for universal access to streamline the process rather than do away with it altogether. What seems like an ideal proposal may turn out to be a negative.
The other issue is, that the self-id process as proposed, will be available to all members of the public. Not just those within the transgender community.
There has been no clarity from the MP's on how they will stop those people with malicious intent from using this process to remove their personal (possible criminal) histories from public view, easily change names and do so with an intent to commit crimes, harm and fraud. If this process is misused in such a way, this is also not good for the transgender community.
And that's without getting into the impact of these changes on the biological sex class of women.
It is a well-intentioned but poorly thought out piece of legislation, presented badly by the MP's promoting it.
Yes. As overseas its actually the amateur implications of this change which have the striking impact. Many things (such as removing single sex/female) categories will be removed justified by the overarching law change. This will happen even though there is no legal requirement to change and the justification claimed will be that the law has changed requiring this.
The supplementary order to the bill was presented as non controversial, having very little effect on the general population , and "bringing us into line with overseas countries"
I'm concerned that it gives legal recognition to a vastly changed concept of what the words female and woman means.This without wide consensus or consultation with the 50% of the population who this affects.
It seems there's been a total flip, now biological sex is a cultural concept (easily discarded with hormones and medical corrections) and gender is the new destiny, originating in the womb as an innate felt reality, trumping sex.
In the process of ratifying the new orthodoxy , and in the name of inclusivity , natal women are neutered, their breasts not to be mentioned in connection with milk, the femaleness of their periods reduced to desexed menstruating bodies.
We can't say pregnant women it seems , for risk of upsetting those who deny their material sex in favour of a preferred gender Ashley Bloomfield could have said pregnant men and women but perhaps he opted for brevity.
I'm very wary of changes in language to fit a new orthodoxy, pushed in large part by academia in the social sciences .
If you remove the sex class then you no longer have 'discrimination on the basis of sex'.
One day some Persons with prostates will realise that they too lost their sex status, but by then it will be too late.
What i want to know is, if sex is removed, say a Cop were to arrest you, can you be cavity searched by a Transwomen? Must a female cop cavity search a transwomen in a prison? Can transmen be drafted? Can in the future persons with intact reproductive facilities be compelled to breed children for those that have been neutered in the name of trans? Will be a surrogate incubator be a career choice for persons who no longer find employment? Same for the production of human milk, can a person be compelled by Winz to be a wet nurse? If a child is born to a person and a transwomen (who is the ejaculator in this case) will the state be the parent, as persons in prison can not consent to sex? And so on and so forth.
Already in a woman's rape crisis refuge in Scotland, a distraught woman victim asked to have a true female deal with her and administer the rape kit.Instead she was chided and told if she would not accept a transwoman (who knows what stage of transition)she would just have to stomach it and get over her bigotry.
The cruelty of re traumatising a victim of rape.
Persons/People/Others/Karens need to do again what was done in the past.
But then, just like with discrimination of sex, if you make it so bad that Karens don't go to the police or a rape crisis centre or a hosptial to
a. report the crime
b. and allow for evidence of the crime to be collected from their battered bodies
then you have no crime.
Win win.
Labour / Green solved the violence against People/Persons/Others/Karens.
Woot Woot! Victory! Sweet Sweet Victory!!
Gender Identity is the new Immortal Soul. Anybody who supports the separation of Church and State should be concerned by this new ideology which seeks to use the levers of the State to privilege it above other belief systems. There is no more physiological evidence for the possession of a gender identity than there is for the possession of an immortal soul. And we all know what happened last time the populace was required to accept the beliefs of its rulers.
From England.
https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442822907399397380/photo/1
UK Labour now openly identifying as unelectable is basically healthy. Under Corbyn they were still making it a secret that they didn't want to be elected.
A wee funny from the german elections.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-trans-women-elected-german-parliament-tessa-ganserer-nyke-slawik-greens-party-20210928-xta4cbxaxjbenaqn245bvrglha-story.html
Never mind, them persons/people/others will get used to their new status of person/people/other. And frankly we should abolish 'persons' rolls, or 'quota persons' they are as defunct as much as same ‘sex’ spaces.
I had a laugh with the submitter who said 'just because you have two wooden legs doesn't make you a table'.
Paul Litterick's submission on the SOP to the BDMRR Bill is wonderful. https://fundypost.blogspot.com/
Can't find that submission on the link Visubversa
Link here,
OMG!Molly that is chilling
Paul Litter??? Phd. do we know more about him
No, I just followed the link that visubversa supplied and found the submission he had made.
From what I can see he is a blogger, architect and contributor to some online media sources.
The reference he makes to the redacted and poor RIS (Regulatory Impact Statement) was mentioned by a commentator a while ago. I did have a look at the time, but am not familiar with the regular form or nature of it, so couldn't comment on its comparison to others.
If you have a penis you most certainly are not a table.
lol Gabby. Indeed.
Debbie Hayton's submission to the UK government on their similar legislation can be found here. (pdf).
Articles she has written as a self-described transgender campaigner can be found here.
Thanks for the link. The way she writes about her acceptance of herself after many years as a trans woman chimes in with what I've taken from discussions with a person in my wider family circle who transitioned more than 20 years ago, and these discussions (and my experiences as a biological woman) are where my thoughts about this legislation fit.
This is well worth a read.
Here is further proof that mandatory vaccinations and "tackling misinformation" works:
Port workers' 95% vaccination rate attributed to tackling misinformation
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
So why is the government not considering making it mandatory for other risk based industries such as construction workers/road workers as well as work places where interaction with the public is high?
Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that we now have vaccines in the country and thus people that were stuck in Group 3 and 4 can actually get vaccinations?
Was it really tackling misinformation, or was it just maybe something else had more to do with it?
from the link:
Sorry, I forgot to put quote marks around the main paragraph:
That was the conclusion based on their responses – hesitancy due to misinformation. But they soon changed their minds when it became mandatory.
No-one is suggesting it should be across the board, but obviously making it mandatory for all high risk areas is a no-brainer.
Is this just me feeling a rant is coming on. Michael Venus is "thinking about" sueing the Gov because he cannot secure an MIQ spot. Firstly he is a professional sportsman and should be expecting problems flying in and out of the country and just grow a spine and get on with it. he is now going on to San Diego presumably to another fixture.
Secondly his wife and two young children are joining him there plus his mother. His mother is joining them and has quit her job as an emergency department nurse, a sorely needed job which will be missed and training will take up valuable time to replace her. Reason being for her to be going is that she will be a stay at home mum as Venus's wife will be working over there.
Now bugger me, Venus surely has sufficient PA earnings that he could afford a nanny for his kids and secondly why should it be an expectation that his mother will have to take over his wife's role. His mum may be more than happy to do this but the sense of entitlement Venus has, for thinking of sueing the Government and the cheek of even asking his mum to look after his kids.
Sorry but I am over entitled prats and their whinging and whining. Grow a spine Venus and get a life.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/tennis-kiwi-olympic-bronze-medallist-michael-venus-considering-legal-action-against-government-over-miq-system/3PPXVGBYVLSJFJIDG2D32L3CKQ/
Venus and sufficient earnings? By my reckoning from winnings he has averaged NZ$320,000 a year since 2009.
https://www.atptour.com/en/players/michael-venus/v576/overview
Dear Moderators,
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
Apart from your dislike of persons discussing the issue, could you explain how you compare a current political action i.e. the discussion of bill that has wide ramifications in this country to the US election?
And this is the open Mike? So why not discuss it here, other then that some persons may not disagree with what some other persons have to say?
I have no dislike of any person having discussions on this issue although sometimes take offence at some of the language used. The comparison with the US election, as I stated, was based on the level of clogging up Open Mike. I am not trying to stifle your conversation but suggesting people from either side could CHOOSE to go to a dedicated post to voice their opinions on this topic.
How can an issue that will affect 50% of this countries population be 'clogging' up the open mike?
As you say being such a critical situation affecting 50% of this countries population, I would have thought you would welcome the suggestion to have a daily post dedicated to the discussion until the Bill is finalised.
i agree with you,
but sadly Weka is not around, and no one of the others started a post. So we are stuck on the Open mike until Weka comes. Patience.
I'd like discussion to stay on Open Mike. The media have blacked out this issue of the BMDRR. So I kind of see it as my civic duty to get some information out to others.
Thank you for your feedback and I hope a satisfactory outcome appears for everyone.
I'm sure it has been done before. That is… a rolling post for a specific subject which is ongoing and controversial, thus freeing up OP for more general subject matter.
Thanks Anne, that's all I was suggesting.
Ok Red blooded One.
I am not sure what the language is you are referring to. I think you called me on transgender ideology. I hopefully clarrified to you that it is the ideology and how it is being imposed that I have a big problem with.
As I said to Ad yesterday I have been commenting on TS since 2013. I have never been warned, banned or had a threat of a ban in all that time.
I think I am pretty reasonable with my comments. I have had a lot of stuff chucked at me, but only when I am commenting on this issue. I have been accused of coming across as unhinged, I have been told I am stupid, I have been told I side with the idiot right wingers and I had it implied I made some sort of lewd suggestion about someone taking their daughter into a change room.
I post on this site, because there is a media black out about this bill. What I reported today was pretty factual about the. a Select Committee. Many regular commentators were keen to engage about this topic.
I suppose I am hoping at some stage some of the people on this site who aren't supportive of those of us who are gender critical may actually be able to acknowledge that there is a problem for women and girls with gender ideology and the attempt to legislate for self identification. Already male bodied people are turning up in women's spaces, eg. a transwoman in a change room watching women and teen girls change. I will never stop trying to bring this to peoples attention, because it is not o.k.
A few reports escaped this "media black out", despite everything that's going on.
Fortunately 'the media' is (also) more diverse than it was a few decades ago.
Had a look at your links. The first three are really a whole lot of reckons, and no discussion at all.
The next three are similar to press releases. There is also a conflation of the terms sex and gender throughout. Not helpful.
Attempted public discussions around the issue, well – I'm sure you can find some cancelled ones.
Just as I’m sure you can find some that weren’t cancelled.
Molly, one of Anker's assertions @12.1.1.3 was that "there is a media black out about this bill."
As "this bill" has been referred to in a few media reports (not a lot, I would agree), it seems inflammatory to mischaracterise the paucity of reporting as a "media black out", and I believe it’s unlikely to foster further dialogue.
Just my opinion – we can agree to disagree – peace.
… and love…
Gotta love 'em
Yes please!
Despite engaging with you non-passionately on this topic a few times, RBO, why are your contributions only different versions of?
Be quiet, be quiet, be quiet, be quiet…
Molly, the only times I have engaged on this topic is when I have taken offence at the language being used directed at the Trans Community. With your "be quiet, be quiet" narrative you are wrong. As I have stated above, today I have asked for a daily post dedicated to the discussions, that is hardly trying to shut you up, but when one does take offence to a "women with penises" remark they are jumped on for highlighting its offence. I personally would rather this matter be handled by the moderators, as I had addressed them, and am happy to leave it up to them, without me making further space on Open Mike.
Two fairly recent conversations with you where you did not discuss, just dismissed:
Open Mike 28/09/2021 which actually included the instruction:
"None of you need bother answering, the question is rhetorical. " and which you walked away from.
Open Mike 26/08/2021 which was more productive, but showed a tendency for you to say what you wanted, which was responded to, but you walked away again instead of addressing what other commentators had said. This pattern of expecting and receiving a response, but not returning the courtesy has been noticeable on this issue.
This pattern is not a discussion, it is a lecture.
I have not lectured any of you, you however!. I have highlighted when offensive remarks (imho) have been made, and no I am not going back to each thread to highlight them again, many of you have been party to the threads so will be well aware of the words used so I will not re-hash them. I will be very happy to have a discussion with Weka, who I addressed the last comment you mentioned to. This comment was addressed to the Moderators and as such we can, as Anker has done, and Sabine has alluded to, wait with patience to see what Weka or other moderators have to say, and/or voice your opinion to them why continuing the topic on Open Mike is a good idea. .
No, RBO. I think you are mistaken in thinking you have made a genuine attempt at discussion and sharing viewpoints. Despite people taking time to engage and respond to each of your comments in regards to content, you have given no indication in your comments that you have considered the content in theirs.
That is not a robust discussion, when all the listening is happening on one side. That is a lecture.
And you have been asked to provide a proof to your assertation that offensive language against the trans community was used, and used in order to offend.
Again, you are complaining about such language being used, and again you provide no link, nothing at all.
As far as i am concerned, moderators/authors on tis page have left various posts to discuss various issues. However not a single on of them has opened a post about this submission/hearing farce that is currently ongoing, other then Weka – and i think AD and MickeySavage who did a post in favour of it. Today however, not one Author did.
But maybe you could let us all know what you would like us to discuss on the open mike? Maybe the 'vaccine mandate', the locking up of people who may refuse to take vaccinations, the rubbishing of peoples stuck overseas or here due to no spaces in MIQ or no flights that would fit MIQ? Maybe you would like to discuss childhood poverty and that of the poor parents? Maybe you would like to discuss the medical services that can't be accessed by many people because AKL is in lockdown and will remain in lockdown for the foreseeable future? Maybe you would like to discuss the rental shortage, the extortionist prices for human habitat?
What would be an appropriate thing to discuss on the opne mike in your view?
I just can't be fucked with it any more.
I should make the effort, but the people dominating the discussion at TS seem to regard any opposing position as bias, claim that they're being silenced, and/or argue the people with a different position are victimising them. And then when they get told TS isn't viewed as a safe space, some of them have a little discussion about how they can't see why that might be, throw in a bit of patronising rephrasing that they think should solve whatever problem there is even though they can't see it, then a couple decide that the complaint was just a weapon used to victimise them.
I just want the bill voted on. Even if it fails this time around (or has some "civil union"-style compromise), sooner or later it'll pass.
I don't think you realise how ironic your comment is.
Funny. I think the same about your comments.
At least give us a link to a contribution of yours when you could be "fucked" to talk with integrity on this topic, then I'll give credit to your "any more".
Yep, that's the stuff.
That's OK. I couldn't find one either.
Taking a deep breath, because although we can play this point scoring game all day, it is pointless.
I support the ability of transgender people to have a streamlined process that enables them to get official government documentation that records their declared gender identity. However, I think there are issues with how they are proposing to do so.
In particular, the ability to self-id without the requirement for the presence of support services. I think this is a negative for the transcommunity long-term. Also, there seems to be little proposed in the way of safeguarding the process from those who are not in the transgender community, but who may use it with ill intent.
Can you really not entertain the thought that there may be negative impacts from this proposed method?
Every policy might have negative impacts, just as there might be positive impacts.
But there's a difference between realistic or even widespread impacts, and the theoretically possible impacts.
Except in countries where similar legislation has been passed, what you consider only "theoretically possible impacts" have occurred in real life, thereby rendering them "probable impacts".
I have not found a submission against the Bill, that state that they do not believe transgender people should not have access to documentation that records their preferred identity (although, I am sure there are some). I have randomly looked at about 40, and couldn't find one that stated that objection. The submissions were about the failure to safeguard both the transgender community and those in the wider community from the misuse of process and/or the failure to provide guidance or reassurance on possible negative impacts on the safeguards put in place for the biological sex class of women.
Make no mistake. I believe the MP's who are promoting this Bill have done an appalling job of predicting, and providing suitable responses to these concerns. Their failure to do so in part is responsible for an inability to publicly discuss this topic with genuine intent to resolve it to the benefit of all.
The differing understandings of the words sex, gender, gender identity, women, men, male, female etc makes the whole topic a minefield of misunderstandings and bad assumptions. People are often not even using the same language. How do we overcome that primary obstacle?
I fully support finding a streamlined method of providing transgender people with official government documentation.
I believe a truly progressive government would provide that by ensuring that any transgender person would have immediate access to counselling/medical/support services that facilitate that option.
By doing that instead of removing that safeguard, we ensure that those in the transgender community (which has a high percentage of mental health issues) at least has one guaranteed point of contact with such services. (Similar to the requirement of pregnant women to have a midwife).
This means that support services need to be invested in and grown. Removing the safeguard process, gives successive governments (think National and ACT) the option of reducing these services without regard.
That's one consideration that may be interesting to discuss with you, if you think you have the solution. The other issue with self-id is the ability of those not in the transgender community to misuse the process with the intent to commit harm. I would genuinely be interested in how you think that can be avoided.
Bluntly, the fact that after years of implementation overseas the only negative impacts people point to seem to be individual cases (that are often highly debatable or talk radio reckons) rather than rates suggests to me the negatives of this largely administrative bill are still more theoretical than probable.
McFlock, unfortunately we are repeating the pattern where we are talking past each other. Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect, and can easily be rebutted with a few internet searches. But you have stated more than once your refusal to follow provided links, so there is no point in doing so.
If you get to a place where you think we can actually converse with a genuine intent to solve this discussion issue, then we can give it another go. ie. would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I believe that solution works both for increasing access to services for the transgender community while solving the issue of misuse of process from those without. Perhaps you can propose a better one.
(Just as an aside, do you believe me and others when I make affirmations regarding support for the transgender community or do you consider them false?)
This is the other issue. That's not actually what I wrote, nor certainly intended to imply. There was one discussion at TS (about a trans woman in a US prison ISTR) that did in fact resolve to being some talkback wonk, but I did not say that all cases were restricted to talkback radio. But you jumped on that interpretation as evidence that I'm arguing in bad faith.
Similarly with my refusal to look at some links – particularly when I've already spent half a damned day looking for and reading a judgement that was mentioned (and misinterpreted) in a tweet linked by a commenter.
That's not my bad faith, that's me having limited time and inclination to check the content that the original commenter should have checked before linking.
I apologise for paraphrasing incorrectly, but that is how it came across to me, even on the re-read. There have been numerous incidents related on TS, and again, easily found on the internet, about the harms on both the transgender and wider society by the use of an administration only process for self-id. One incident where you got frustrated is not an excuse for not informing yourself independently. And once again, you are taking issue with how we are talking rather than what we are saying.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Would that it were one incident.
Wrestling scores, excerpts from judgements, anecdotes about predators being thrown into womens prison wings, fathers being locked up for "using the wrong pronoun"… cherry picked, out of context, talkback radio, outright misleading (he was done for repeatedly violating suppression orders by giving his kid's specific medical info to the press against the kid's, the kid's mother's, and the court's wishes).
Those aren't the only instances, just the ones off the top of my head.
Then the flipside is how few comments have been made about Tavistock winning their appeal. Quite a few before the appeal came out. This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up – the point of the observation is that people tend to post links to support their position and that's fine if the links are accurate. But in this debate they seem to be largely assessed on surface value, and all too often fail accuracy checks that the commenters should have done.
Just noticed this paragraph. Missed the Q the first time.
Was it this bit
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
Actually, McFlock, there are submissions from within the transcommunity that object to the self-id provisions in the bill.
It would also be an indication of genuine engagement if you provided more in regards to this discussion than "they said so". I would suggest that the burden of informing your opinion should not rely solely on the testimony of those you have relationships with. The issue is much wider and far-reaching than the personal views of a few people.
This is a societal change, not just a legislative one. It also affects women as a sex class, because it affects sports, awards, services, spaces, quotas, statistics etc that relate to that class.
Others within the transcommunity and those concerned about the impact on the laws and societal mores than affect the biological sex class of women, have brought up those concerns more than once, only to be dismissed as transphobic.
Were you ever supportive of the idea of single-sex spaces? If you understood the need for them before, why has this changed?
Are you supportive of the inclusion of religious women (eg. Muslim), modest women or young women and girls in community facilities? Do you understand that the presence of self-identified male bodied people in those spaces might well result in the exclusion of these biological women from those facilities? How do you, and those who require validation from inclusion in women-only spaces despite male bodies, provide inclusion for those women?
Those examples you have provided are also out of context. The Tavistock ruling, is concerning. You are right. I didn't know it had been overturned, but I do know that I consider that to be a problem rather than a reason to celebrate.
As someone currently on hormone suppression treatment, it is no walk in the park. And I know that my insecurity as a teenager regarding my developing body, and my disconnect with "normal" would have predisposed me to possible solutions that I would have had no ability to provide informed consent for. That may have led to further treatment that rendered me sterile, and unable to function sexually. Do you really think teens have the capability to understand this?
You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology. I see it as what happens when safeguarding and wider considerations are thrown to the wind. We will end up with harm being done to many more than Keira Bell. Don't ask me to celebrate that result.
Again, my opinion is not solely based on the opinions of people I know. It's a combination of that and what the trans community seem to go for. No group agrees completely – there were probably some women who opposed women having the vote, for whatever reason. But the overall direction? That can be seen.
Similarly, "You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology." is actually almost the precise opposite of what I wrote: "This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up".
As for what teens can consent to, many of them are smarter than you give them credit for, and some have very good reasons for not wanting their caregivers invovled in decisions about their reproductive organs. Sure, there should be clear criteria on establishing the capacity for and existence of informed consent. In the UK, that's called the Gillick test. It's a clinical process, not the business of the courts.
Appealing against that doesn't just affect trans patients, it affects every young person needing sexual health services of all kinds but not wanting their parents' involvement in that process.
BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious.
So, no worries about the probable exclusion of some women in women's spaces then. And once again, no answering to the questions regarding your previous support for women only spaces, and why this has changed.
As far as I am aware, the Gillick competence test was created for the prescription of contraception to minors. Fit for purpose, and used to provide medication that on cessation would no longer have an effect. This successful use, has been used to justify the provision of off-label medications, which may have permanent effects, to minors.
I think this is a problem. It is also similar to referring to the harm of gay conversion practices, and conflating that to mean that affirmation only models are the only acceptable approaches when dealing with teenagers and young people.
These are not one-sized fits all solutions. Each situation needs a purpose built solution.
I am actually, because as I mentioned before the language used in these discussions is so fluid and amorphous it is hard to keep track. I perhaps should have used "gender identity ideology" but you can give me the updated appropriate term to refer to. (Given that you have probably an updated definition of the word woman that I don't ascribe to, let's just try to understand what each other is saying rather than get caught up in the semantics.)
jesus christ, did you ever consider the idea that maybe concentrating on one complex topic in a comment and trying really hard to avoid pissing you off might, just might, not be an intentional slight or an indication that I have zero consideration for the other complex topics in this comment thread?
But no, keep seeking out the worst possible inference to make.
That way me removing myself from this thread right now is obviously some example of "no debate" or bad faith rather than exasperation at someone who thinks the lack of "identity" is probably the insulting bit and not the presence of "ideology".
Jesus Christ, McFlock. Instead of being outraged for repeated attempts to engage and requests for you to read comments in their entirety before responding, perhaps you should remove yourself from this thread.
BTW, I don't feel slighted. I feel like someone who continually has to remind you that you are not responding to content. I would only be slighted, if I thought this was done intentionally in an attempt to not engage. I actually think you are unaware that you do it. That's why I ask specific questions, so that the conversation can go back on track.
I remain unlearned in the right phrase to use in regards to gender identity ideology. Do you actually have one to provide? Because statements that regard biological sex as a state of mind is a belief. Hence, ideology.
One simple question:
do you think
is part of
Because I sure don't. It looks to me like an accusation based on yet another worst possible interpretation.
100 percent
McFlock I don't think anyone said they don't see how it might be that the Trans community would find this an unsafe space.
I think the trans community are only seeking affirmation. They are entitled to want that. But they may not find that on the Standard. As I said the Standard is a place for robust and rigourous debate.
I can't understand your bit "throw in a bit of patronizing…."
Women are being silenced. What do you think happened when trans activists successfully shut down their meetings.
If you can't be fucked with anymore, no problem. Just scroll down
RBO are you saying it is offensive to refer to women with penises?
We women are being told by some trans activists that women can have penises, men can give birth and lesbians can have penises (so being a lesbian is no longer about being self sex attracted, it is about being gender identity attracted).
Do you understand why some of us don't accept the above statements?
In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions, I will be accused of running away if I don't respond to all your questions. I am happy to wait until Weka returns or a Site Moderator gives an indication that they do or don't agree with my suggestion of a special daily post for you to discuss this topic and anyone else from either side can join you. I trust you can do the same.
"In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions," – but this is a descriptor used by the transgender community itself.
Oh, that's right. Stop asking me questions or giving me information. Be quiet, be quiet.
It's fine to ask. I can't see the justification for the amount of work involved for an author/mod (it's a fair amount of work). With the US elections every day there were long, heated debates that tended to take over OM, so dedicated posts took the heat out by not annoying so many people that were sick of it, and it made it easier to moderate.
That's not happening with the BDMRR debates (there are days, sometimes a lot, when there's been no discussion at all).
If you don't like the topic, my suggestion is to scroll on by. I have to do this with various TS topics that go through phases eg vaccines at the moment (although as a mod I actually have to scan them to make sure no-one is being an arse)
Please see Internal Post in Back End.
just replied.
Agree Weka. I think people are exaggerating how much of the time this topic comes up on Open Mike.
As well as having push back about it, I have a number of women (I assume) commenters thanking me for bringing it up.
I don't like the idea of having a special post for this topic. It smacks a little of lets get these pesky women off Open Mike
Thanks Weka for you considered reply,
I certainly don't wish to cause anyone any more work on this issue. You asked the other night why there wasn't more engagement from the other side of this issue. May I suggest the piling on, from a passionate few, for even asking for a special daily post to discuss it, may answer that question.
For the record I do not, as Anker suggests below, wish to get any "pesky women off Open Mile" I however, can happily take another option of rather having to scroll passed, I can take a self-imposed avoidance of Open Mike until after the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill has been finalized.
See you after that. Cheers
I agree that pile ons can be counter productive. In this instance, your request was fine, and your replies after that even handed and point, so thanks for that. I find that if too many people are engaging with stuff I am saying it's useful to pick which I want to reply to and focus on those. Or choose not to engage at all (in this case you asked the mods a question, so there was no obligation to respond to anyone else). This is a really useful skill to develop in robust debate culture. One person's pile on is another person's water off a duck's back. I wouldn't class yesterday as a pile on, the people that replied to you were likewise evenhanded and making coherent points. Everyone was ok in what they did despite the apparently conflict.
I will say that some of the response yesterday was based on how you engaged on the topic the other day. I have two thoughts about this. One is that there's no obligation here to respond to anyone other than moderators. However, it does tend to piss people off if someone says something controversial and then says don't talk to me about that.
I also think that where you have been saying you find some of the language about trans people offensive, you probably need to explain what you mean if you are going to stay in the conversations eg women with penises is a common concept in trans circles online, I don't know what is offensive about it because you haven't explained. I would also say that being specific rather than general improves debate eg link to where someone has said 'women with penises' and then we can see what you actually mean (especially the mods).
I would appreciate you acknowledging you have read this, and am fine if you don't want to engage further.
Thanks, I acknowledge I have read this. I wont rehash the offensive comments but even you have, in conversations, acknowledged them on occasions so I didn't see the need to go over them again, as I thoroughly explained why I felt them offensive at the time. I bow to your judgment and will take time off from Open Mike so that I don't get caught up again trying to defend against the hurt that words can cause on a maligned community. Regards, RBO
And the Dad with his three kids that no one could find came back home.
Yei! Finally some good news.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/missing-south-waikato-father-tom-phillips-three-kids-found-safe-and-well-after-three-weeks/4E2FWPWBQCQDHJH2XF235USN4I/
Sometimes, life surprises in a good way.
The selfish, entitled arse certainly owes an apology to his family, Maniapoto iwi, search and rescue folk and members of the local community who gave a substantial amount their time and resources to look for him and his kids.
Selfish arse with living children, which is often not the case for selfish arses.
For that I am thankful.
Yes, wonderful news. I'm sure most of us assumed they were dead, and the news headlines had certainly moved on. Whatever the personal circumstances, an outcome to celebrate.
You wouldn't grudge a "massive search" for someone in the bush because of a broken leg.
Why, would you grudge a search because of someone, as seems likely, with a broken brain.
Both equally need help. As someone who has been involved in searches, it is what we do as a community.
Just pleased, as I have been on other occasions, after searches for people with mental problems, that they are safe.
Yes that is good news
Ardern just got Tova to ask their rehearsed patsy question, so Ardern can say Auckland's border will still be shut at level 2.
Congrats Auckland.
That will be you going to level 2, but with closed borders, so you can't spread yourself round the country in the school holiday.
Edit: Subtlety isn’t Ardern’s thing is it?
I trust you’d conflate clarity and subtlety.
Just saying they could have made it a bit less obvious.
I see, obfuscate like JC and JK. Yeah, nah.
You are right in one respect.
Key would have never openly displayed going to his chosen friendly journalists every presser and feeding them questions.
(to be fair that is probably bollocks sorry. He would have feed questions he needed. They all do, but I am just saying he wouldn't have been so blatant about it)
All good though.
At least now we know what the announcement will be next week.
[Yes, it is bollocks, but you said it anyway. So, you can now provide support for all your assertions in your comment, including that they all (!) feed questions to the friendly (!) journalists [at] every (!) presser. Failing to do so will cost you a month.
Or you can withdraw your trolling bollocks, apologise, and take a week off for wasting my time, unless your apology comes across as genuine, this time, given that you say sorry a lot, but it is obviously rather meaningless coming from you – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 4:25 pm.
I just said I was wrong about Key not doing the same thing.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it. But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked, so well done people, in the grand scheme of things, you have rocked in level 3.
[Hmm, I’d already put you in the Black List for a week, but then dinner called. I see that you slightly edited your comment. So, I’ve slightly edited my note for you that I’d written before dinner.
Good to know that you know that Key is/was not doing the same thing. I’m so relieved that you clarified just that one part of your comment.
It is not about what I want; I gave you an opportunity to correct and redeem yourself with a genuine apology. You did not really grasp that opportunity with both hands.
I cannnot forget anything you say here, unless I delete it and then it still shows up in the Trash folder and I have to delete it there too. What is said, is said and stays said.
You cannot have it both ways; mean what you say, say what you mean. If you have nothing to say then don’t say anything.
You are a disingenuous time-wasting commenter, but I’ll give you one more chance – Incognito]
God, I hope you're right cos my fringe is a hanging over me eyes and I can't see proper. Far more important than anything else. 😉
Edit: I watched chris T and I'm certain you got it wrong, but can understand why you thought it. JA has a policy of kicking off question time with the two TV political editors Jessica Mutch-McKay and Tova O'Brien on alternate days. It was Tova's turn today.
FYI
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/whos-the-prime-minister-going-to-give-the-first-question-to/CZI37LJ4FLWV4H5C5DKNMNE5OQ/I
See my Moderation note @ 6:09 pm.
For what it is worth. Thank you.
It’s worth between a week and a month as long as you sharpen up your comments here.
Incognito.
Did you actually watch the 1pm press conference?
Nope, never watch them pressers; too depressing.
Fine with me. I don't need to galavant around the country to prove I'm able.
As long as work starts next week, and school and sport resumes in Term 4, I'll be happy.
Although, having said that, I am very concerned we are going to look like this in early November.
Christmas might be off after all.
Whatever you think of the PM's answers, to suggest that it's a "rehearsed patsy question" is a solid 9 out of 10 on the conspiracy theory scale (10 involves lizards and aliens).
😂 Quote of the day.
The scale only goes up to 5.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/six-common-conspiracy-theories-and-why-it-s-pointless-to-argue-with-them-1.4531139
From which tier did you scrub Russia Gate?
Apparently now the FBI have indicted some Clinton lawyers for not telling them they were 'on the clock' at the time they were giving evidence.
And for all the cervix havers that lost their cervix to cancer, it appears that with some hormone therapy and some surgery on can grow a cervix.
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1443125834626260993
Persons who suffered from cervical cancer the world over will rejoice in this knowledge.
Is Scout Barbour-Evans a woman?
What is a woman?
What are women?
and also,
Who is Scout Barbour-Evans?
(And if Muttonbird doesn’t know, why would you?)
I think it's possible to debate the issue without bringing in individual trans people and using them as political fodders. Especially in this case because SBE has had a lot of stupid, mean and transphobic arguments directed at them and about them in public.
I'm also concerned that you can't see the problem of asking what you did in response to Sabine's comment. It's none of our business whether any individual NB/trans person has a cervix or not, and it's completely unnecessary for us to know or debate about that person. It's also irrelevant to the issues Sabine pointed to.
Love it Sabine!
test
Your new e-mail address has now been approved and your comments will now appear freely without being caught by Auto-Moderation unless something else triggers it.
cheers.