Open mike 30/11/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 30th, 2022 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 30/11/2022 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Jenny are we there yet 1
    30 November 2022 at 6:54 am

    In our increasingly connected world the Green Party makes a good point.

    On balance the leader of the Palestinians, also being invaded and occupied by a hostile foreign power, should be invited to address our parliament.

    ….The Green Party wants leaders of other oppressed nations to address Parliament too.

    "Are we hearing from Palestine? Are we hearing from other oppressed nations? No, we're not … we'd like to see some consistency," Davidson said.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/479297/greens-demand-consistency-over-ukraine-president-zelensky-invite-to-address-parliament?

    “We fight our oppressors, and we get branded terrorists. Ukrainians do the same, and they get applauded for their courage.”

    Mohammed Rafik Mhawesh Palestinian writer and journalist, based in Gaza city

    …..Thousands of Israelis also took to the streets in Tel Aviv “for Ukraine”. And as they marched with Ukrainian flags at hand and chanted “Free Ukraine”, Palestinian residents of the city watched on speechless. After all, that many Israelis have never taken to the streets in Israel to demand a “Free Palestine” or at least equal rights for Palestinians living under their state’s apartheid regime. To make matters worse, they undoubtedly know that whenever Palestinians try to take to the streets in Israel to say “Free Palestine” and raise their own flag, they face immediate arrest, police brutality, or worse.

    The shock experienced by the Palestinian people since the beginning of the war in Ukraine was not caused solely by the hypocritical actions and words of Israeli officials and citizens either.

    Since February 24, they also came face to face with the inherent hypocrisy of the global community at large….

    ….all the Western leaders, media organisations and institutions started to passionately talk about “the illegality of occupations”, “occupied peoples’ right to armed resistance”, “the importance of sovereignty and national autonomy” – arguments and concepts that they never seriously put forward in defence of Palestinian people and their decades-long struggle for freedom.

    In this past week, we Palestinians have been shocked time and again, realising that the global community has been gaslighting us for years….

    https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/6/what-the-war-in-ukraine-thought-us-palestinians

    • Jenny are we there yet 1.1
      30 November 2022 at 7:08 am

      The thing about indulging the above hypocrisy, is that it gives succour and ammunition to the supporters of Russian aggression, debasing Zelensky's address to our parliamentarians by turning it into a partisan farce.

      Confirming Russia’s supporters worst conspiracies

    • mikesh 1.2
      30 November 2022 at 12:18 pm

      It's not that I don't support the Palestinian cause, but shouldn't we hear both sides of the story.

  2. Visubversa 2
    30 November 2022 at 8:56 am

    "when the natives start using the language of a conqueror they offer the significant concession of participating in their own cultural extinction. Language regularises and describes reality. Change language you change reality. Change enough language and you’ll even change the way people think, because what do most people think in if not words?"

    https://dennisnoelkavanagh.substack.com/p/slight-of-words-why-the-function?r=72ui0&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post&fbclid=IwAR20oKmHhHN19BUQI5G8D513FjHZ4AMubgSSepn2MOnCSVyC29akSsBkHes

    • Nic the NZer 2.1
      30 November 2022 at 11:38 am

      Not sure this is well reasoned.

      The framework (which Dennis is actually adopting) is the argument that reality is created and re-defined by language.

      This framework has some fundamental limitations (though it is true that people will argue for beliefs that they hold true due to how language is formed), and fundamental physics doesn't even thing that intangibly observing something (e.g not about quantum effects on measurements) changes its nature, let alone the language used to describe it. There was a universe and are physical laws before humans reasoned about these and there will be long after humans have ceased.

      Its also not true people think in a particular language (despite Dennis adopting this belief). What people do do often, is to form language to describe the thing they have thought (which they may also be able to do in many languages) which forms an internal monologue. But the idea that their thoughts are actually formed in language falls to many counter points, such as which linguistic properties pertain to precise properties of ideas (e.g there are many grammatically correct phrases which clearly mean non-sense, there are also grammatically incorrect phrases and novel phrases which make valid understandable ideas).

      • Visubversa 2.1.1
        30 November 2022 at 12:41 pm

        It is about colonised speech and forced speech. People being required to signal their fealty to a homophobic and misogynistic ideology in which most do not actually believe.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    30 November 2022 at 9:10 am

    “Nats to raise Super to 67” piece on RNZ today included an absolute what the…moment during their interview with Christopher Luxon.

    Guyon Espiner employed the classic “ how much is a litre of milk?” tactic. He asked Mr Luxon, NZ National leader, and would be PM, what the weekly payment for a couple on National Superannuation is. Baldrick did not know! despite being asked several times.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018869146/christopher-luxon-commits-to-raising-super-age

    Mr “7 pads Luxury Luxon” displayed once again why he is not likely to be a long term NZ National leader, let alone Prime Minister of this country.

    • Barfly 3.1
      30 November 2022 at 10:39 am

      Interesting

      "waits for the smell of burning rubber from the impending u turn"

    • scotty 3.2
      30 November 2022 at 10:39 am

      Yep, and another vote losing interview from Luxon, this morning on the AM show.

      Luxon's bullish certainty on inflation – quickly evaporated into a wild eyed spluttering when it was pointed out that – the spending he had highlighted and wants to cut – would not make a material difference to inflation.

    • observer 3.3
      30 November 2022 at 10:44 am

      It was even worse than the "milk" question. It wasn't even a "gotcha", an unexpected question. It was a major news headline yesterday. The Retirement Commisioner talked about it yesterday. Luxon was asked about it by reporters yesterday.

      It is incredible that Luxon did not then say (to his staff, to himself) "OK, super is in the headlines, tomorrow I have my weekly round of interviews, I know it will come up, so let's make sure I've got the most basic facts right".

      Five minutes of homework, and he couldn't be arsed. If Ardern did that she would be torn apart.

      There's only one empty little lightweight in that comparison, and it's not the girl.

    • Nic the NZer 3.4
      30 November 2022 at 11:20 am

      In those terms it doesn't even pass as National policy. Its a policy National is signaling for 10 to 15 years and it will be adopted, unless the government cancels the age adjustment first.

      So its going to make no difference to any budgets till then one way or the other, and that's how much Luxon and National believe in it being either the right thing to do, or a good idea.

      Keys National lasted 9 years total in government. The chances of this policy coming into effect, let alone "working", are negligible.

    • bwaghorn 3.5
      30 November 2022 at 11:31 am

      The thing is we need to completely rethink retirement, I've got 2 70 year old work mates one full time one works slide time ,both getting the oldies benefit no doubt.

      Also it not good for society or the the people them selves to get to 65 and just stop , fit active oldies still contributing on some level is what's needed.

      • Tiger Mountain 3.5.1
        30 November 2022 at 12:04 pm

        Get real. Many people do not retire until they expire, it is good for mental health.

        Paid or unpaid, people often like to do useful stuff for family or community. The thing is the current system is an impediment. ‘Dole bludger’ one day, heroic pensioner “paid my way” the next.

        A basic income for all citizens, administered by IRD is needed to even out the generational conflict which is only going to intensify with the Natzos move from 65 to 67 for Super.

      • Craig H 3.5.2
        30 November 2022 at 12:21 pm

        Making super cost less isn't that hard from a technical perspective – increasing the age of eligibility is one option, means testing is another option, reducing the payments is another option, and let's not forget that the Cullen Fund was set up to help offset the growing cost of super in decades ahead.

        The difficult part is finding an acceptable option among them rather than increasing taxes or cutting services somewhere else to pay the increasing cost.

        Increasing the age of eligibility has varying impacts – some people will be capable of working well past 65/67/whatever age, others are physically unable to work by 60 and we haven't got a good system for that yet.

        Kiwisaver wasn't set up specifically to allow for means testing or a reduction in Super (by reducing the acceptable rate from 66-72% of the average wage to something less), but it could lead to that, and its existence will help reduce otherwise increased costs of things like the accommodation supplement. Income testing would deal with people continuing to work, but was very unpopular when we did it in late 1980s and 1990s (the surtax).

        Increasing the Super fund faster is probably the most palatable option though.

      • RosieLee 3.5.3
        30 November 2022 at 12:41 pm

        If they earn more than a certain amount per year their super is reduced.

    • roy cartland 3.6
      30 November 2022 at 1:09 pm

      Well he's burnt the Winston bridge, and his boot camps and bracelets is a kick to the goolies to Seymour; his top tax cut reversal is a bit of a filch from Labour.

      Now all he need do is chack a bone to TPM, some Green initiative and he can collect the whole set!

      Is that this Broad Church thing?

      • newsense 3.6.1
        30 November 2022 at 11:03 pm

        I thought rather it seemed that he’s actively trying to get Winston over the 5% in the polls in the hope that he then takes votes from Labour…

  4. Jenny are we there yet 4
    30 November 2022 at 9:29 am

    A row has blown up at the International Film Festival of India. One of the invited Judges was an Israeli film maker, Nadav Lapid.
    Lapid has a reputation of supporting Palestinian film makers and has decried Israeli government subsidies given to Settler Film companies in the occupied West Bank.

    The BJP Party that rules India is an extremist right wing Hindu nationalist movement, with close links to openly fascist groups that publicly call for genocide against Muslims.

    Lapid had criticised an Indian film, the 'Kashmir Files' as 'vulga propaganda'. According to other commentators and historians, the film Kahsmir Files distorts the history of the Kashmir conflict and depicts Moslems as murderous savages. Showings of this film in India has led to communal clashes and violence against Muslims.

    The Zionist Envoy to India, Naor Gilon has lashed out at Lapid and sided with the BJP. Telling Lapid he should be ashamed and should apologise to the Indian people….

    …..Lapid has criticized Israel’s treatment of Palestinians loudly, claiming that “the collective soul of Israel is a diseased soul.” He also signed an open letter, along with 250 other Israeli filmmakers, in opposition to the Shomron Film Fund, which gives subsidies to Israeli residents who produce films in the West Bank and to Jewish settlers who live there.

    …..Nadav Lapid, an Israeli director, was criticized harshly by Israel's ambassador to India, Naor Gilon, for labeling "The Kashmir Files" "propaganda" and "vulgar" at the 53rd International Film Festival of India (IFFI).

    https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/why-is-israeli-filmmaker-nadav-lapid-being-criticized-by-israeli-envoy-over-kashmir-files-remark-explainer-1669704062-1?utm_campaign=recover_abandoned_videos&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_source=izooto&utm_term=notification2

    Why Is Israeli Filmmaker Nadav Lapid Being Criticized By Israeli Envoy Over Kashmir Files

    • Incognito 4.1
      30 November 2022 at 10:06 am

      You made a real dog’s breakfast with the text you quoted in your comment. This can confuse and mislead people, as it is no longer clear which are your own words & commentary and which is quoted from other sources.

      Nobody is expecting ‘perfection’ or ‘flawless’ comments but standards have been slipping here lately and there are a few common culprits responsible for this.

      • Jenny are we there yet 4.1.1
        30 November 2022 at 3:31 pm

        I was trying to edit the post and slipped the paragraph I wanted to add into the wrong space and couldn't correct it before the timer ran down.

        My apologies.

    • Adrian 5.1
      30 November 2022 at 10:45 am

      Or the Irish ! See Blazing Saddles.

    • Jenny are we there yet 5.2
      30 November 2022 at 3:44 pm

      The only court hearing that should be held in this case is one against the parents for child abuse/neglect.

      Little difference between these extremists than the religious fundamentalists who would rather their child die than receive a blood transfusion

      • Shanreagh 5.2.1
        30 November 2022 at 4:24 pm

        Though I see that the parents have people who they have assessed as being 'suitable'. As a half way house why cannot Blood Transfusion Services/hospital assess these people and test their blood products…….monitoring for possible exposure to mad cow and CJ disease?

        For an op like this they will need access to quite alot of blood products. Can the parents not give their blood through BTS?

        I feel these people do not have the best interests of their children at heart, as opposed to furthering their own views much as those who follow religious strictures not to have blood transfusions don't have the children's interests at heart.

        They have put their own views or the religion ahead of the health of another human being. This is fine when it is one's own body but when making a decision for another person who is not able to make their own decisions, a different set of moral or ethical reasoning could/should be adopted.

        • Jenny are we there yet 5.2.1.1
          30 November 2022 at 6:43 pm

          broken heart

        • mauī 5.2.1.2
          30 November 2022 at 6:52 pm

          How many parents don't have the best interests of their children at heart?? An exceedingly small number.

          These parents agree that the surgery has to take place, so they do have the child's best interests at heart. They also believe their baby should receive blood from a trusted source, rather than blood that may have been affected by a new medical treatment.

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.2.1
            30 November 2022 at 7:05 pm

            "rather than blood that (they mistakenly believe) may have been affected by a new (globally-tested) medical treatment."

            • mauī 5.2.1.2.1.1
              30 November 2022 at 10:33 pm

              If they're mistaken, it should be easy to prove that a young baby is not at any risk receiving transfused blood from possible vaccinated donors then?

          • Shanreagh 5.2.1.2.2
            30 November 2022 at 10:53 pm

            You have expanded my comment far wider than my post.

            People who place creed or religion above the health of their children are what is the subject here. I place the antivaxxers in the creed part and Seventh day Adventists in the religion part.

            What is the new medical treatment? Vaccinations have been around for many years and could hardly be called new or are you referring to the surgical procedure?

            Why not a stricture on people who have vaccinations that work using a live attenuated products

            e.g. chickenpox, measles, mumps and rubella, rotavirus, and shingles vaccine viruses. The BCG vaccine contains live weakened tuberculosis bacteria.

            If I was going to go off half cxxxxd about vaccines these are the ones that 'logic' would tell me were more dangerous than the mRNA ones.

    • mauī 5.3
      30 November 2022 at 6:55 pm

      Better example – If one of your kids needed a new kidney, would you go for a random one from the donor bank, or a matching one from within your family?

      • pat 5.3.1
        30 November 2022 at 7:02 pm

        Even better example…if you had a time critical procedure would you waste days/weeks arguing over whether you have more knowledge than someone who has spent at least a decade of training over your own few hours of Googling?

      • Robert Guyton 5.3.2
        30 November 2022 at 7:08 pm

        I'd go with the advice from the "new kidney" experts, rather than Sue Grey.

        • mauī 5.3.2.1
          30 November 2022 at 8:31 pm

          I think I've heard of them. Were they the ones claiming "safe and effective"? And you won't catch the disease and pass it on if you use our product? You're protected from severe disease too?

        • Shanreagh 5.3.2.2
          30 November 2022 at 11:06 pm

          I actually can't think of anything I'd want to consult her about nowadays. In the olden days she was a reasonably competent Environmental lawyer. Or to get media input from Liz Gunn.

      • Incognito 5.3.3
        30 November 2022 at 7:47 pm

        No, no, no! Kidneys are a bad example because we all know that they filter out the microchips and nanobots in those Covid vaccines. Use brain as an example and see if you can find a matching donor in your family, it shouldn’t be too hard, I reckon.

        • Shanreagh 5.3.3.1
          30 November 2022 at 11:01 pm

          Were the Bill Gates 'control the world' products contained in the chip or nanobot?

          And then there were the magnets. They would play havoc in an operating theatre and I hope BTS have got something that can take them out as well.

          I have found that the embarrassment I first encountered with teaspoons leaping from tables in restaurants and attaching themselves to me has waned a little. I was hoping to be able to do some metal detecting but people look at me strangely when I bend over and run my arm along the gutters in search of metal so I've given that up.

  6. Adrian 6
    30 November 2022 at 1:49 pm

    When we have quite rightly spent a million bucks on fixing their carpet rat will they reject it because its contaminated. Poor bloody thing, its a hard enough start to life without having to spend the next 20 years with those two dickheads.

  8. alwyn 8
    30 November 2022 at 4:17 pm

    He was the chap that former (thank goodness) Labour MPs Clayton Cosgrove and Trevoe Mallard happily addressed as "Tinkerbell" in Parliament when he was Attorney General. Just a merry little jape according to Trevor.

    God knows, Mallard really was a dreadful specimen of humanity wasn't he?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5781365/Upset-over-Mallard-comment

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [Exactly 2 weeks ago, you received your last warning for disrupting discussion with your diversions (https://thestandard.org.nz/what-happened-to-nationals-policy-machine/#comment-1921468). Since you don’t learn and want to change you now receive an educational ban of 3 weeks – Incognito]

  9. logie97 9
    30 November 2022 at 4:25 pm

    Did anyone else notice the Stuff headline earlier this morning. (N.B. appears to have been taken down now as the editor may have thought better).

    Words along the lines "Jacinda Adern to meet partying Finnish PM.".

    I didn't realise that our papers had sunk to the UK Sun's disgraceful levels. How disrespectful can you get?

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.