Opportunist

Written By: - Date published: 4:37 pm, October 5th, 2011 - 244 comments
Categories: john key - Tags:

A man tried to jump into the Parliamentary Chamber today at the end of question time. Yelling something about WINZ, Paula Bennett and John Key, he was caught at the last moment by guards. I have a feeling there’s a sad story behind that. Something must be seriously wrong for a man to apparently try to harm himself in such a public and dramatic fashion.

Just as sad was Key screeching “you should be ashamed of yourself, that’s down to you guys” and made a throat-slashing gesture to Labour as the man dangled, before the DPS hustled him out. This was the nasty, callous Key that the public rarely see, but who is often on display in the House.

video here

244 comments on “Opportunist ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    5 October 2011 at 4:47 pm

    From Stuff:

    “At the start of the man’s episode, Goff said he was “stunned” and sat down from giving his speech. He waited for the incident to be dealt with.
    “But then the Prime Minister started yelling across the House ‘shame on the Labour Party, shame on the Labour Party’, as though this was something that was instigated by the Labour Party.
    “Clearly, it wasn’t. That was a very stupid thing for him to say,” Goff said.
    “It was totally inappropriate behaviour for a guy that is the prime minister of New Zealand or for any member of the House.
    “He was absolutely wrong. It’s a disgrace that he would even make that allegation and I just hope that the election campaign is not going to be fought on that basis.””

    And further,

    “[David] Cunliffe said the comment was inappropriate because the man might have been attempting to commit suicide.

    “To turn that into a political event shows a personality trait that most people don’t often see of the prime minister and it brought the house into disrepute.

    “It’s a very low point in the House.”

  2. Lanthanide 2
    5 October 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Compare and contrast these two statements:

    “Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee said security guards were on the scene “very, very quickly”.

    “He probably got half his body over. He had one leg over.

    “He wasn’t saying too much at that time but he certainly had a lot to say on the way out.

    “[We were] shocked because you don’t know why he was wanting to leap. When he went out he made a few statements that were fairly clear what he was about. I’d rather not go into that.”

    Leader of the House Simon Power said: ”It was impossible to get a clear picture about what was going on but it was clear he was unhappy about something. It was very hard to tell from down on the floor what his issue was. But he was three-quarters over that brass rail.”

    Emphasis mine.

    Funny how Gerry knows what the guy said but doesn’t want to repeat it because it makes the government look bad, while Simon went with the “I know nothing!” defense.

    • gobsmacked 2.1
      5 October 2011 at 4:57 pm

      I see that differently, Lanth.

      Brownlee and Power have enough sense not to escalate the drama. They chose not to pour petrol on.

      Instant judgement in a sudden crisis is THE leadership requirement (the old “President’s finger on the trigger” question). Brownlee and Power get a pass mark on this incident, as does Goff. Key seems to need his “advice” first.

  3. BLiP 3
    5 October 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Desperate beneficiaries living at the edge of society throwing themselves off balconies into the debating chamber . . . when the town is crawling with diplomats and big business buddies all on the piss. Not a good look.

    • vto 3.1
      5 October 2011 at 5:00 pm

      It is a scene out of a period piece movie some short time before the french revolution

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 10:46 pm

        Brilliant. But first we need Key to suggest to beneficiaries that they should do dinner out at their favourite restaurant to chill.

  4. Bored 4
    5 October 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Pressure getting to you Jokey?

    Cant face the music without cracking up?

    Frightened of facing a member of the public who is agitated?

    I know you were outside of your Parnell security compound, but lets face it there were lots of lovely Labour MPs to look after your welfare.

  5. vto 5
    5 October 2011 at 4:58 pm

    That really is something for Key.

  6. Brett Dale 6
    5 October 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Are you guys for real, Key’s life was threatened, this is why he has the security that he has (but those in the labour party wouldnt want him to have any)

    Has anyone hear thought that maybe the far left in NewZealand handles itself like the tea baggers in the usa, creating so much hate directed at one person.

    Its just lucky the guy didnt get to Prime Minister Key.

    • BLiP 6.1
      5 October 2011 at 5:18 pm

      You’re right. The sight of distraught New Zealanders hurling themselves from balconies is likely to have had absolutely zero impact on John Key. He wouldn’t have got it at all. Most likely it played out as another scene from the Truman Show experience John Key is having as Prime Minister.

      • vto 6.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 5:36 pm

        “another scene from the Truman Show experience John Key is having as Prime Minister.”

        Ha ha, so true.

    • Zetetic 6.2
      5 October 2011 at 5:22 pm

      yeah. big threat to key. a guy jumping off a 5-6m balcony on the other side of the chamber with 40 people between him and the pm. What was he going to do in your fantasy?, crawl over and bleed on key?

      how does even your fantasy justify Key’s screeching at Labour?

      btw. it’s telling on the wide shot how Key is the last to leap to his feet in concern when the MPs see the man jumping.

      • Brett Dale 6.2.1
        5 October 2011 at 5:25 pm

        Seriously Zetetic?? People who are unstable are a danger

        I have also havent seen a video of him screeching at Labour, (as you guys put it)

        • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 11:23 pm

          Seriously Zetetic?? People who are unstable are a danger

          BD slams a dozen years of progress on understanding people with mental health issues into the bin in just 5 seconds.

          What an asshole.

    • felix 6.3
      5 October 2011 at 5:22 pm

      Hi Brett.

      Just as sad was Key screeching “you should be ashamed of yourself, that’s down to you guys” and made a throat-slashing gesture to Labour as the man dangled

      Any comment?

      • Zetetic 6.3.1
        5 October 2011 at 5:25 pm

        brett will quibble over whether Key was “screeching”

        • Brett Dale 6.3.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 5:28 pm

          Zetetic:

          I havent seen a video of it? Not sure if he did or not, if some guy came at me with a knife, I think i would screech no matter how far away they are.

          • Zetetic 6.3.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 5:31 pm

            Don’t put question marks at the end of statements.

            I love you you disregard the testimony of journos and MPs, and Goff’s instant reaction and Key’s face when Goff admonishes him.

            And, then, you event a knife.

            No-one ‘came at Key with a knife’. No-one came at Key at all.

          • Lanthanide 6.3.1.1.2
            5 October 2011 at 5:31 pm

            “Not sure if he did or not, if some guy came at me with a knife, I think i would screech no matter how far away they are.”

            What’s that go to do with someone attempting to jump into the opposition benches in the parliamentary debating chamber?

          • Deadly_NZ 6.3.1.1.3
            6 October 2011 at 12:12 am

            http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/11017

            There you go the video of the incident the biggest thing is Keys reaction to being called a scumbag and then called out in the house as the one who said something that was disgusting the MSM have a little bit of the video but have ‘played the least threatening bits’, I suppose it can be looked up in the Hansard??? Also Key was the last to even get to his feet and his demeanour in the house makes one wonder at a bottle of the grape with lunch.

            • Lanthanide 6.3.1.1.3.1
              6 October 2011 at 12:46 am

              Yeah, being a bit sloshed wouldn’t be out of the question and would go towards explaining his bad judgement.

              I did find his posture and behaviour (suddenly lurching up from his chair like a meercat) a little odd. Blip at #15 describes his posture as like a sack of potatoes.

          • Vicky32 6.3.1.1.4
            6 October 2011 at 5:56 pm

            if some guy came at me with a knife

            What knife?

      • Brett Dale 6.3.2
        5 October 2011 at 5:26 pm

        Felix:

        I will comment on it, when I see a video of it.

        • Zetetic 6.3.2.1
          5 October 2011 at 5:28 pm

          yeah. goff made it up on the spot. and key’s reaction doesn’t indicate anything. and the separate testimony of other Labour MPs and journos is obviously some kind of conspiracy that they made up immediately.

        • mickysavage 6.3.2.2
          5 October 2011 at 5:41 pm

          Here tis. 
           
          Perehaps you should have refrained from commenting on it before seeing the video rather than saying ” Key’s life was threatened, this is why he has the security that he has”.
           
          Notice in particular Key’s response when Goff challenges him. He gets that evil “ive been caught” look in his eyes. If he did not say anything he would have protested immediately.

          • Lanthanide 6.3.2.2.1
            5 October 2011 at 5:44 pm

            There’s no evidence of Key saying anything in that video.

            Edit: Actually there might be something at the 2:10 mark but I can’t tell what he’s saying, apart from pointing at Labour.

            • mickysavage 6.3.2.2.1.1
              5 October 2011 at 5:46 pm

              No only Goff’s mike would have been on.  You can see Annette King’s response however and things getting really heated.

            • Zetetic 6.3.2.2.1.2
              5 October 2011 at 5:47 pm

              well, apart from goff’s reaction, and the face key pulls.

              the nats are now admitting key yelled out and they have their first weak line on it:

              “A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister said his comments related to Labour’s criticism of Mr Key’s security.”

            • Shanna 6.3.2.2.1.3
              5 October 2011 at 8:12 pm

              At 0.42 seconds into the video run by stuff and 3news you an see Key making the throat-slitting gesture.

        • Mutante 6.3.2.3
          5 October 2011 at 8:25 pm

          Why bother with such close scrutiny Brett?

          It doesn’t usually stop you talking out your arse about things you don’t understand.

        • erentz 6.3.2.4
          5 October 2011 at 8:58 pm

          Is the throat slashing gesture at around the 40-43 second mark?

        • seeker 6.3.2.5
          6 October 2011 at 1:23 am

          Brett look where Eddie says “video here” in his post (“here” in blue for you to click on) 43 seconds in you can see John Key move his hand across his throat quickly. I could not believe my eyes! When you put this into context with the inthehouse video link on Deadly-nz’s 12.12am comment you will see for yourself what a weak little prime minister we have for a ‘leader’ and how deputy speaker Ross Robertson and Phil Goff held it together for the rest of the house.
          I am so glad kind,quick thinking people in the gallery stopped the obviously distressed man from injuring himself, or any one else, he might have landed upon.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.4
      5 October 2011 at 5:25 pm

      Are you guys for real, Key’s life was threatened…

      What? There’s no way someone throwing themselves over a balcony to drop 15 feet onto chairs and uneven flooring is a threat to anybody. He’s going to seriously hurt himself and probably wouldn’t be able to stand up afterwards.

      So this would be a good example of a RWNJ telling lies to distract from John Key’s abhorrent actions.

    • geo 6.5
      5 October 2011 at 5:28 pm

      The jumper was on the other side of the chamber.Key was NEVER in danger.In fact Labour MP’s were.

      • The Voice of Reason 6.5.1
        5 October 2011 at 6:07 pm

        Key was so threatened he stayed in his seat without moving a muscle, right up to where he makes the throat slashing gesture at around 2.10.

        • RobM 6.5.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 8:01 pm

          Actually he stood up quickly 50 seconds in, looked like he wanted to make a run for it.
          Sits down around 1m 20s.

          • The Voice of Reason 6.5.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 8:18 pm

            Cheers, you’re right. I didn’t realise that was him on his feet in the wide shots early on. Well, my rep’s shot now, dammit!

        • erentz 6.5.1.2
          5 October 2011 at 8:59 pm

          2.10? what video are you watching it’s only 1:21 long — have they edited it?

            • Reality Bytes 6.5.1.2.1.1
              6 October 2011 at 1:55 am

              Holy crap.

              Game over national if Goff can get his message across. If he can deliver this message in the leaders debates, I can’t see anyone genuinely challenging him. The guys sounds like he sincerely cares for the future of this country. His challenger the j k meister does not exude this level of passion for the issues. Give what cred that you will and nitpick over the plans and technicalities of the prospect, but passion and commitment is essential.

    • travellerev 6.6
      5 October 2011 at 8:03 pm

      The guy was trying to jump on the labor side which is where he would have remained being hurt from falling no doubt. Get of your high horse.

      John Key made a slash over the throat gesture to Goff which is what I would call totally inappropriate for a prime minister to do and clearly shows John Key’s venal and callous attitude.

      Someone who is clearly in enough distress to attempt suicide and he uses it to bully the leader of the opposition.

    • Vicky32 6.7
      6 October 2011 at 5:52 pm

      Are you guys for real, Key’s life was threatened,

      Where on earth did you get that idea?

  7. mickysavage 7
    5 October 2011 at 5:25 pm

    Well this puts Darien Fenton’s facebook couple of words in a new perspective.

    • Zetetic 7.1
      5 October 2011 at 5:26 pm

      watch for key’s behaviour to disappear down the memory hole

    • Herodotus 7.2
      5 October 2011 at 5:56 pm

      MS what a load of rubbish. DF does not think it appropiate to try and regain lost votes? Very telling reminds me of the Team NZ sailing of those who jumped ship and who sent to “Coventry” for life. All it displays is what unsavory environment parliament is. And this nastiness is not limited to either the red or blue teams. It has been evident no matter how well manged the leader is – Be it Key, Clark, Peters or others even Dunn has displayed this.
      – See any evident with disconnection with the electorate. – Just another exampled.

      • mickysavage 7.2.1
        5 October 2011 at 6:01 pm

        What the?
         
        I was commenting in the severity of the respective breaches.

        • Herodotus 7.2.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 6:38 pm

          I just had visions of a dryer in “Spin” mode. Even Phil has undermined DF position with his photo opportunity with Sir Peter.
          DF screwed up and the time line of reported events point to damage control re the appology. So why cannot the forces on the left accept and move on?
          But Sir Johns outburst (Though no audiable evience and I tried hard to hear) was totally inappropiate. Under pressure or unplanned events are when we can see true character- We accept flawed character but stage managed (eg Tiger, The PM ) then the fall is deserved as they profited by the pr image machine.

  8. Draco T Bastard 8
    5 October 2011 at 5:28 pm

    I notice from the NZH article that the government is already spinning John Key’s actions

    A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister said his comments related to Labour’s criticism of Mr Key’s security.

    “The Prime Minister’s comments following the incident were a reflection on the Labour Party’s continued criticism of his DPS security detail – which included criticism of his being accompanied inside the parliamentary complex. It should be noted a DPS member was involved in restraining the member of the public.”

    Got to get those lies out fast so as to distract from the truth.

    • Zetetic 8.1
      5 October 2011 at 5:34 pm

      2 hours for a first line is a bit slow off the mark.

      And, typically of National’s first lines, it doesn’t make any sense. Would Key say it’s Labour’s fault and make a throat-slashing gesture if he was talking about his own DPS?

      I await the new line tomorrow with interest.

      • Brett Dale 8.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 5:36 pm

        and this has proven that he needs his security

        • Zetetic 8.1.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 5:41 pm

          no-one’s arguing a pm doesn’t need dps. it’s a matter of how he uses.

          and an unarmed man attempting to injury himself on the far side of the chamber was no threat to key.

        • lprent 8.1.1.2
          5 October 2011 at 6:00 pm

          The guy was trying to jump down to where the Labour backbenchers were from the public gallery. It was a long way from Key. There is considerable security to prevent anything lethal getting into the public gallery. Security on the gallery and some in the house itself. I fail to see your point..

          Frankly if John Key was worried about his security in the house then he is even more of craven coward than I’d already attributed to him after observing his typical DPS entourage. Helen never bothered with the type of personal protection that this bozo seems to require. I’ve even commiserated with some of the DPS over the years when they have been forced to remain well away from her.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.3
          5 October 2011 at 6:22 pm

          No it doesn’t Brett, it proves that you’re a liar making BS up to defend your hero from his own atrocious actions. Key was never in any danger as the video shows. Key didn’t think he was in any danger, as the video shows. His comments had nothing to do with his security.

        • Carol 8.1.1.4
          5 October 2011 at 6:43 pm

          I think Key should ask for his money back… his diplomatic squad seems to have been the last on the scene, after members of the public who stopped the guy jumping, and security, who had been watching the guy already.

          as described on the audio here:

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2499555/security-stops-man-trying-to-jump-from-public-gallery.asx

          • Tigger 8.1.1.4.1
            5 October 2011 at 8:45 pm

            Brett D’s line at 8.1.1. above surely belongs in a Standard Hall of Sh(fame). It’s so Crosby Stills and Textor as to be farce. Or perhaps this man today was part of the global terrorism our boys are in Afghanistan to stop?

          • mik e 8.1.1.4.2
            5 October 2011 at 11:10 pm

            They are probably on $13.50 an hour as well! at least the cleaners do a good job [JK]

        • mik e 8.1.1.5
          5 October 2011 at 11:12 pm

          BD Social security

        • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.6
          5 October 2011 at 11:20 pm

          and this has proven that he needs his security

          Hey Brett what about all the other 100 MPs in there, are they all expendable?

          Or are you suggesting that they get security too, since they were all threatened (not).

    • Lanthanide 8.2
      5 October 2011 at 5:36 pm

      Frankly that’s just a bizarre response.

      “I was saying “shame on Labour” because they talked about how I abused a DPS squad and in this case it turned out I needed it”.

      Except no one else could reasonably draw that conclusion from what was said. Either Key has a very strange through process and difficulty expressing himself, or this is a desperate attempt at deflecting something that shows him in a very poor light.

    • BLiP 8.3
      5 October 2011 at 5:38 pm

      So the NZH scribe didn’t actually watch the video before pumping out the spin? Getting close to 6pm now. The race for the lead is on . . . probably the opening of the plastic Waka maybe, or Princess Zara takes flowers to Dan Carter’s home??

  9. mickysavage 9
    5 October 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Video is up at the TVone website.  Inthehouse is a bit slower.

  10. randal 10
    5 October 2011 at 5:31 pm

    So either jerkey is getting flakey or he knew it was going to happen!

  11. Ianupnorth 11
    5 October 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Stage managed, a Crosby Textor “let’s show Labour who the boss is”….
     
    More time for smiling and waving, possibly a visit to the secure unit where they have taken the ‘offender’

  12. gobsmacked 12
    5 October 2011 at 5:40 pm

    We know that Key immediately said “Shame on Labour” or similar, because his spokesperson has tried to explain the comments, not deny them.

    I can think of many understandable things for somebody to say in that situation. “Jesus fucking wept, let’s get out of here, I’m shitting myself” would be understandable. I’d be first out the door, myself.

    But as an immediate response – yes, immediate – … to blame the opposition?

    Does anybody really think that’s Prime Ministerial? Or even just normal?

  13. felix 13
    5 October 2011 at 5:41 pm

    How unsurprising to see Mr Goff behaving like a thoughtful, compassionate adult while Mr Keys behaves like a spoilt child.

  14. BWS 14
    5 October 2011 at 5:43 pm

    There is no footage of the PM shrieking anything across the House. There is footage of what looks to be Labour MPs calling out to a “William”, which suggests some of them knew who this person was. There is footage of the PM showing a throat-slashing gesture. It is clear that Key was the target of this person. Nobody else was at risk.

    There is also footage of numerous Labour MPs calling Key a “scumbag”.

    I don’t know what video you were watching Eddie but it doesn’t correspond to the video you posted.

    • Zetetic 14.1
      5 October 2011 at 5:51 pm

      key’s spokesperson has admitted he yelled out. so there’s your first line ‘goff made it up for some reason’ gone.

      what’s your next line?

      key’s actions would have gotten him called a scumbag anywhere he did them in nz.

      • BWS 14.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 6:02 pm

        I didn’t say that Goff made it up. If you’re going to summarise what I said, do it accurately. I said there was NO FOOTAGE of the PM “shrieking”. I have looked through the TV3, TVNZ, and inthehouse footage. There is no such thing. There are no audible words from the PM. So you cannot use the video to support your claim that he blamed the incident on Labour.

        • Zetetic 14.1.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 6:05 pm

          So, you are claiming that Key didn’t say anything. Ipso facto, you’re saying Goff and the media are lying for some reason.

          And you’re ignoring the admission from Key’s spokesperson

    • mickysavage 14.2
      5 October 2011 at 5:52 pm

      Memo from CrosbyTestorNZ
      To all available wingnuts
       
      Our work is cut out for us this time.  Years of investment in John Key’s persona suggesting that he is an ordinary and compassionate Kiwi looks like it is down the gurgler.  Unfortunately times of extreme stress can bring out the real person and it looks like this happened today.
       
      So this is an extreme event notification.  Blitz all blogsites and the media and suggest that Key was talking about his security guards, he was scratching his shoulder when he made the knife cutting gesture, that there is no video of him shrieking even though Goff nailed him with the accusation and he slumped in his seat and looked guilty as hell straight afterwards.
       
      Say anything no matter how inane.  We need to blur this event as much as possible.
       

      • higherstandard 14.2.1
        5 October 2011 at 6:00 pm

        Did the security guards hurt you as you were removed from the debating chamber ?

        • mickysavage 14.2.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 6:03 pm

          Memo from CrosbyTextorNZ
          To higherstandard
           
          That comment was too inane.  One more like that and your contract will be terminated.

          • higherstandard 14.2.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 6:14 pm

            Who can take the sunlight, sprinkle it with poo
            ‘parp!’
            Cover it with chocolate and a miracle or two
            ‘slop’
            The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
            The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
            He mixes it with love, makes the world taste good

            “arghhhhhh me eyes it burns”

            • mickysavage 14.2.1.1.1.1
              5 October 2011 at 8:38 pm

              Memo from CrosbyTextorNZ
              To higherstandard
               
              You are on your own …

            • mik e 14.2.1.1.1.2
              5 October 2011 at 10:12 pm

              Whats higherstandard on more of Dunnes drugs must be.Wouldn’t be surprised to see HS in same ward as parliament loony.Its pretty common these days to be threatened as a prime minister of this country.Helen Clarke had a few in her time one was an ex undercover drugs cop who was arrested in CHCH for threatening Helen Clarke with a gun the same day she was speeding along the Canterbury plains.

        • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 14.2.1.2
          7 October 2011 at 1:55 pm

          *applause*

    • Carol 14.3
      5 October 2011 at 5:53 pm

      My impression listening to the clips on RNZ was that the call to “William” was at the same time as King was shouting to Labour backbenchers to “move”… the guy was directly above them. Is there an opposition MP called William who was under where the guy attempted to jump?

    • gobsmacked 14.4
      5 October 2011 at 5:53 pm

      @BWS

      Wrong.

      William is the Labour MP who was in the immediate danger area. So Annette King shouted ‘Move” – to him.

      As for “evidence” on Key’s comments, this has come from his office. See my comment above.

    • felix 14.5
      5 October 2011 at 6:04 pm

      BWS.

      1. “There is no footage of the PM shrieking anything across the House. “

      Shrieking? I wouldn’t have called it that. But Key is heard to say “you should be ashamed of yourself” or something similar and as Z points out he has already admitted it via a spokesperson so that’s that. What a scumbag Key is.

      2. “There is footage of what looks to be Labour MPs calling out to a “William”, which suggests some of them knew who this person was. “

      Of course they do you fool, “William” is Su’a William Sio who was sitting underneath the incident, on the opposite side of the chamber from Key. His colleagues were telling him to get out of the way (that’s why they were saying “move”)

      3. “There is footage of the PM showing a throat-slashing gesture.”

      Yeah. What a scumbag.

      4. “It is clear that Key was the target of this person. Nobody else was at risk.”

      Care to explain?

      5. “There is also footage of numerous Labour MPs calling Key a “scumbag”.”

      See 1 & 3.

      6. “I don’t know what video you were watching Eddie but it doesn’t correspond to the video you posted.”

      Here you go, try with your eyes & ears open and your brain in gear this time.

    • The Voice of Reason 14.6
      5 October 2011 at 6:10 pm

      Annette King repeatedly yells at Sua William Sio to get out of the way, as he was directly underneath the man trying to jump.

    • andy (the other one) 14.7
      5 October 2011 at 6:15 pm

      The guy clearly yells out Bennetts name and something about WINZ.

      Can you point to the ‘clear’ point where Key was the target, please?

      I don’t know what video your watching BWS but it doesn’t correspond to the video posted

      —–

      Bennett looked a little rattled on TV1. I think she may need some DPS for a while too!

  15. BLiP 15
    5 October 2011 at 5:43 pm

    John Key sat there like a rumpled slumped over sad sack of spuds. What a leader.

  16. Tiger Mountain 16
    5 October 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Fits with the “kick in the pants” for beneficiaries, mean streak of ShonKey that needs to be seen more often. An extremely wealthy person smiling in the face of cleaners on minimum wage.

  17. Kaplan 17
    5 October 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Here is something interesting. Originally TV3 had the full video up on their site where you could just make out, at around 1:05, Key making the comment and definitely hear the reaction to it from Labour. They have since edited the video to cut that portion out.
    TV1 currently still have the full video up, much the same as TV3’s was, just with slightly different timings.
    One would almost think that $43 million bought National more than a few favours from media works.

    TV1
    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/man-tries-jump-off-parliament-viewing-balcony-4447477

    TV3 – Now starts after the comment
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Man-tries-to-jump-into-Parliaments-debating-chamber/tabid/370/articleID/228399/Default.aspx

    Stuff – This is a video from 3News which is longer but skips JK’s comment in a very unsubtle way.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5738033/Man-tries-to-jump-at-Parliament

    All of this is of course subject to change…

    • Zetetic 17.1
      5 October 2011 at 6:09 pm

      yeah. that cut in stuff’s vid is bizarre.

      and the tv1 one doesn’t work for me.

      hopefully inthehouse will have the full, unedited video.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.2
      5 October 2011 at 6:34 pm

      Interestingly enough, it appears that the inthehouse video has also been edited. There is a definite jump at 1:05. So, why was the video edited? As MS says, pressure has definitely been brought to bear to hide John Key’s actions.

      • Draco T Bastard 17.2.1
        5 October 2011 at 8:38 pm

        Actually, that seems to be a mic error.

      • RobM 17.2.2
        5 October 2011 at 8:54 pm

        Yeah I downloaded the inthehouse video and there’s a strange break in the audio around 1.05. Only lasts a fraction of a second but there’s no signal. Could be switching microphones?
        The video appears continuous.

    • mickysavage 17.3
      5 October 2011 at 8:00 pm

      The TV3 video now shows Key doing the knife cut to the neck gesture, but the Stuff website still has the abridged TV3 version that does not show the gesture.

      This is getting weirder and weirder … 

    • felix 17.4
      5 October 2011 at 8:16 pm

      So the TV3 site has a story about a man trying to jump into the house, but they chose to use a video which misses that entire incident.

      And now the Stuff video has been taken down entirely.

      Curiouser and curiouser.

      • mickysavage 17.4.1
        5 October 2011 at 8:18 pm

        Well give me a pointy tin foil hat and call me a 9/11er …

        • travellerev 17.4.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 8:27 pm

          Apart from the fact that your joke fails to impress and your lack of scientific insight says more about you than 911 researchers but this kind of media manipulation happens all the time and this is no exception.

          I found a link and am down loading the video. It is a great example of sociopathic behavior of our great leader. Not a second for the poor guy who is apparently either confused or perhaps legitimately upset about how he has been treated and angry enough to bring that to the government but instant and callous aggression towards the man he perceives as a threat being Goff the leader of the opposition.
           

          • mickysavage 17.4.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 8:45 pm

            Sorry Eve

            That was uncalled for.  I have not viewed your video and not formed a final opinion.  I was suggesting that conspiracy theories may be relevant because the treatment today of the video stinks … 

            • travellerev 17.4.1.1.1.1
              6 October 2011 at 7:58 am

              Conspiracy= Two or more people who agree to act in what might be criminal or detrimental to others.

              Manipulating the media to paint a better picture of yourself with the help of a PR team while you are plotting to sell public assets knowing that most people are against it while not legally criminal is definitely detrimental to the people of this country is therefore a conspiracy. The fact that they want to sell assets is well established and therefore no theorizing is necessary.

              Conspiracy theorist= phrase coined to ridicule people who have legitimate questions about events and people in power.

              Asking why organizations such as our publicly owned TV senders edit video’s leaving out clearly abominable behavior of one of the countries most powerful man is a legitimate question but please go ahead and ridicule yourself by calling yourself a “conspiracy theorist”. Saves them the trouble and goes to show how far they have come in the brainwashing of otherwise sensible people.

              Here is a nice video about how to defend yourself against the common psychopath (And not the uncommon serial killer variety).

              And just in case your wondering why we are wondering here is a 9 second video showing the straight down collapse of building 7. No theory here just asking legitimate questions.

              And no I won’t start a threadjack here but mickeysavage indicated he had not made his mind up and I’m merely trying to help him.

              • insider …
                6 October 2011 at 3:51 pm

                gravity is such a bitch the way it makes things go straight down. Curves would be so much more elegant

                • Colonial Viper …
                  6 October 2011 at 8:29 pm

                  gravity is such a bitch the way it makes things go straight down.

                  It depends on what is supporting the object.

                  This is why orbiting satellites don’t fall “straight down”, for instance.

              • Jum …
                6 October 2011 at 8:07 pm

                Travellerev,

                Whatever you believe, you keep up the battle.

      • QoT 17.4.2
        5 October 2011 at 8:40 pm

        Am on shite laptop so can’t view the whole vid but assume whole thing is still on inthehouse?
        http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/11017

  18. higherstandard 18
    5 October 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Having seen the videos linked to one can only say that for a brief moment the MPs got a reality shock – they then reverted to type and their disgusting behaviour once again shows why they are treated as the lowest form of profession in NZ.

    Is a bit of fucking decorum ever going to occur with the retards in National and Labour ?

    As usual only the smaller parties are seen to be acting with any civility.

    As an aside in most parliaments the poor chap would’ve been full of lead by now – so something to be thankful for living in NZ.

    • mickysavage 18.1
      5 October 2011 at 6:13 pm

      Goff behaved perfectly well.  He was responding to a bizarre, stupid attack by Key.  Of course he was upset at being accused of being responsible for it.
       
      Is that the best you can do, that both are as bad as each other?

      • higherstandard 18.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 6:17 pm

        Actually looking at the videos the evidence suggests that those screeching ‘scum scum scumbag etc etc’ were the worst offenders of parliamentary decorum.

        Would be informative to actually get a video showing Key’s behaviour.

        • andy (the other one) 18.1.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 6:23 pm

          So throat cutting gestures at the opposition is part of parliamentary decorum.

          FFS.

          • higherstandard 18.1.1.1.1
            5 October 2011 at 6:41 pm

            Actually looking at the videos the evidence suggests that those screeching ‘scum scum scumbag etc etc’ were the worst offenders of parliamentary decorum.

            Would be informative to actually get a video showing Key’s behaviour

            • McFlock 18.1.1.1.1.1
              6 October 2011 at 12:30 am

               Wide shot, left side of the screen, for the throat slashing. Just in case you missed it. The rest of the issues have been mentioned repeatedly, with different links, down to the second.
               
              Take your bluescreen blinkers off.

        • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.2
          5 October 2011 at 6:24 pm

          Cries of “scum, scum bag” is just run of the mill mate.

          The throat slashing gesture, less so.

          • The Voice of Reason 18.1.1.2.1
            5 October 2011 at 6:34 pm

            Yep, and I’m struggling to think how that gesture fits into Key’s supposed comment about the DPS. “Shame on you” accompanied by a throat slashing gesture makes no sense. Unless his office is lying on his behalf. Nah … surely not!

          • higherstandard 18.1.1.2.2
            5 October 2011 at 6:41 pm

            It would be informative to actually get a video showing Key’s behaviour

            • andy (the other one) 18.1.1.2.2.1
              5 October 2011 at 6:44 pm

              If you were legally blind you would have a good excuse, plenty of linky love above. Or you have a cheap crappy internet connection, oh wait you don’t cause your comments come to thick and fast too often.

              The throat cut gesture is pretty clear, and the lack of denial is telling.

            • Zetetic 18.1.1.2.2.2
              5 October 2011 at 7:43 pm

              here you are hs. 2.05 http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/11017

              also note how the camera keeps cutting to key. it does that when there’s an interjection from him. and the speaker is looking at him when he says order, i’m on my feet

            • Ianupnorth 18.1.1.2.2.3
              5 October 2011 at 7:45 pm

              I’ve watched the TV1 video; at least something quite offensive must have happened, look at the reaction of those on that side of the house; it is simultaneous and unscripted. That would not happen without provocation

            • McFlock 18.1.1.2.2.4
              6 October 2011 at 12:32 am

              I’m losing count – is that number 3 or number four cut&paste of the same line, which had been answered before you even typed it, dickhead?

    • felix 18.2
      5 October 2011 at 6:15 pm

      Memo from CrosbyTextorNZ
      To all Sleeper Trolls:

      When a Labour MP screws up it’s “Labour”, when a National MP screws up it’s “politicians”.

      Ends.

  19. Tombstone 19
    5 October 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Come on – there’s a limit and John Key has well and truly crossed it with the throat slashing gestures and screeching at Labour while a man is possible about to end his life. What we saw was the real Key. The smile and wave Polyanna is a fraud and the sooner people wake up to this bozzo the better. He makes me feel ashamed to be a Kiwi quite frankly.

    • felix 19.1
      5 October 2011 at 6:08 pm

      Yep and the real Key, slumped in his chair trying to disappear thinking “oh fuck what did I say oh fuck it’s all filmed oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck” is there for all to see.

      Thousand words, that shot.

      • Banter 19.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 7:21 pm

        Quite ironic after trying to slam through the Video Camera Surveillance Bill

        • Banter 19.1.1.1
          5 October 2011 at 7:31 pm

          why am i in moderation for this?

          [lprent: Because all first time pseudonyms and emails get automatically put into auto-moderation until a moderator releases one. After that your comments won’t be auto-moderated unless you hit one of the boring standard patterns that the systems look out for from the depressingly unimaginative trolls. We don’t have too many of them here because they collect bans (and wind up back in auto-moderation or auto-spam). You may find people in the comments who you think should be trolls. But they are usually just being obnoxious, ill-tempered, smart-arses, or other types of the people.

          Auto-moderation allows the over-worked moderators to easily examine people who want to change their identity frequently. Often they are people who have acquired a ban.

          Have a look at the policy to figure out how not to attract our attention unless you’re asking a question. Even then we may be abrupt because we’re doing this whilst doing everything else, and we really don’t like expending time to explain something you can find out in the sections at the top of the site like the FAQ.

          Have fun. ]

      • travellerev 19.1.2
        5 October 2011 at 8:29 pm

        Yep, awesome!

  21. The Voice of Reason 21
    5 October 2011 at 7:08 pm

    That’s the one.

  22. outofbed 22
    5 October 2011 at 7:12 pm

    what a nasty little man

    • Anne 22.1
      5 October 2011 at 7:24 pm

      That you were able to confine your opinion of Key to “a nasty little man’ reflects well on you outofbed. I have had to refrain from commenting because the adjectives I wish you use are not appropriate for a family blog.

  23. Muzza 23
    5 October 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Look JK has never had the interest of Nz at his core. He is money markets beast , a creature of the industry bringing the world to
    It’s knees. He has made money recently from the fall of Ireland , and also from the FED propping up of BoAML which he benefits from. JK’s body language has always indicated a weak , shallow treasonist hollow man. Brett Dale & trolls you are a disgrace to your country supporting the poverty , abuse & inequality which has been a national disgrace for decades. Look for JK to benefit nicely from asset sales next year , and from the exchange rates post ratings downgrades. Oh to have that inside knowledge eh. He is a total cretin !

    • Colonial Viper 23.1
      5 October 2011 at 7:31 pm

      Yep. Market players don’t give a shit about how the economy is doing for ordinary workers. All they want is increased volatility that they can trade off and make commissions on.

    • Jum 23.2
      7 October 2011 at 2:14 pm

      Muzza,

      Do any of the posters on this blog know which country people like Brett Dale come from or live in?

      We know that the conmen like Fay Richwhite Brierley Key etc keep either most or all of their money stolen from New Zealander SOE asset owners or the real Mum and Dad investors in foreign banks yet seek to control our country’s governance and steal further from us.

      But the trolls like dale and the misanthro reject etc are paid by anyone anywhere with an agenda to own New Zealand via a rightwing government. They have no ethics; that’s the only thing we need to understand about them.

      • Vicky32 23.2.1
        7 October 2011 at 6:00 pm

        Do any of the posters on this blog know which country people like Brett Dale come from or live in?

        I believe (from various bits of linguistic evidence) that Brett Dale is in the USA… (I could be wrong, many NZers use American lexis) but then some of his examples argue that he’s not in NZ

  24. fender 24
    5 October 2011 at 7:24 pm

    And that is why ive got a bald spot from the constant head scratching trying to figure out how this guy has such a high prefered PM rating with the public. His response is manic and a little paranoid in my view. Does he blame all mental health issues on the opposition- even tomorrows ones? If a bird shits on his jacket is that Labours fault too? Key has lost the plot obviously with this latest conspiracy theory. Ive got a conspiracy theory too….National arranged/payed the young man to run naked from Darren Hughes house cos they wished to remove a bright future star of politics whom they were afraid of due to his talent. Now thats just my theory but i wouldnt yell it out in the debating chamber.

  25. Chris 25
    5 October 2011 at 7:29 pm

    Yes, a very sad story behind this, no doubt, and likely to be the result of handy work Bennett and her mob of nazi pig-dogs at Work and Income offices are responsible for. Bennett says the guy “obviously needs help”, yeah, paying him the benefit he’s entitled to would be a good start. Bennett, like Shipley, as well as all the Rankinites left within work and Income, have an amazing knack of turning things around and blaming the individual, not just in the usual “blame the victim” or deserving/undeserving poor sense, but in a way where they do their darnedest to come across as compassionate and caring, without of course acknowledging their part in the whole sorry saga. The approach is still very much alive in local Work and Income offices where human tragedy caused by deliberate nastiness on the part of Work and Income staff is used as evidence for saying things like “this is why we need to get people off benefits and into jobs” and which are euphemisms for more benefit cuts, sanctions, work-tests, benefit stand downs, time-limiting and so on. This “Rankinite” approach is rife within Work and Income and is truly putrid to listen to. Bennett’s posts on youtube are a good way to see it in action. I hope as the story unfolds we get to see how the culture within Work and Income is helping to destroy lives, and that people begin to see through the complete bullshit Bennett and her lynch mob engage in every day.

    • Mutante 25.1
      5 October 2011 at 10:09 pm

      Back during the Rankin era in Christchurch the Beneficiaries Action Collective used to go into the offices and give out Bastard Of The Month awards to the case managers with the cruellest reputation. I’m fortunate enough not to have had to deal with Work & Income on a regular basis for quite some time but that’s the sort of stuff that would be good to see again. Mind you, the security is a lot tighter these days from what I saw during my last brief visit back in late ’09.

    • HC 25.2
      6 October 2011 at 1:33 am

      “this is why we need to get people off benefits and into jobs” – Yes, that is what Paula Bennett would have thought right then and there, I am sure!

      Tomorrow she will visit the man in the psychiatric ward and do exactly that. “Oh, I am so sorry that we let you down”, she may say. “I have a job for you”. “You can start an apprenticeship as a ‘burger builder’ at Mc Donald’s next week. We will pay for it all, and afterwards they want to hire you for the minimum wage”.

      Our leaders are so caring!

  26. Blue 26
    5 October 2011 at 7:38 pm

    A man attempts to throw himself off a balcony in a way that would have seriously injured or even killed him if he had been successful, and John Key’s first (and apparently only) thought is for himself and his own personal security.

    • Lanthanide 26.1
      5 October 2011 at 11:51 pm

      I don’t think immediately being concerned for your own personal safety is somehow a bad thing.

      Key had no idea if the guy was just jumping down, he could have had something he was going to throw, or someone else could have joined in. You have to remember, we’re looking at this with the calm understanding that it was just a guy trying to jump down from the gallery, but Key wouldn’t have known that at the time. The guy apparently called out both Key and Bennett’s names, so I don’t think this is an unreasonable response by him.

  27. aj 27
    5 October 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Seems like the most instructive video links have gone, but the PM’s shifty eye-rolling after Goff nails him is very revealing of the man

  28. gobsmacked 28
    5 October 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Unfortunately this event could easily stand for the last three years of Key, in microcosm … or rather, the media coverage of the event, and therefore the public perception of it.

    Usual pattern – Key says or does something disgraceful, and entirely inappropriate to the situation, and to the office of Prime Minister.

    (previous examples include boasting “We turned the West Coast blue!”, after the Pike River tragedy, or shouting “We care! You don’t!” to Labour MPs, on the subject of child abuse, or his comments about the massacre in Oslo, etc, etc, etc)

    But then, political opponents are placed in a bind. If you want to behave with dignity after Pike River, how can you draw attention to such insensitive comments? Isn’t that insensitive in itself?

    If you do, you are inevitably accused of “playing politics”, it is spun as a “slanging match”, “tit for tat”, and at best, you will get the reaction exemplified by Higher Standard above – “they’re all as bad as each other.” So it’s usually better (and just plain human decency) to say nothing.

    In which case, you rely on the media to do their job, to report what the Prime Minister has said, accurately and fully. Without inserting an apologist interpretation.

    The media rarely bother to do this, and so … political opponents sometimes react by spluttering and it backfires – more often, it just disappears, as if it never happened.

    No other leader in the democratic world gets their public behaviour swept under the carpet by a docile media. Imagine David Cameron in the House of Commons, doing what Key did today. He would be slammed in the media (yes, even in the Tory press) and would be lucky to get away with only an apology.

    It’s a sorry state of affairs in old NZ.

    • Macro 28.1
      5 October 2011 at 9:25 pm

      So very true. NZ is very poorly served by it’s MSM. Not just on the reporting of Key’s abhorrent behaviour, but on a wide range of fronts. It is a very sad state of affairs.

      • Colonial Viper 28.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 10:32 pm

        Labour’s fault for not sorting out the MSM and public news broadcasting during their 9 years in Government.

        The MSM did not turn to shit just in the last 2 years.

        • Draco T Bastard 28.1.1.1
          6 October 2011 at 12:23 am

          Yep, should have put in place TV7 back in 2000.

          • Lanthanide 28.1.1.1.1
            6 October 2011 at 12:47 am

            Yeah, would have been too hard for National to so blithely kill it as they’ve done now.

            Unfortunately TVNZ 7 was riding on the back of Freeview, which didn’t really exist at all until about 2005 IIRC.

    • uke 28.2
      5 October 2011 at 10:25 pm

      Nice summary.

    • mike 28.3
      6 October 2011 at 2:57 am

      Well said, TV1 andTV3 are so tame in their political reporting. They seem content to be manipulated by MPs at will.

      • Vicky32 28.3.1
        6 October 2011 at 6:24 pm

        3 News is covering the event halfway through their bulletin at (18.22) and bring it down to “he said/she said”, “there are two points of view”… Really? At least Annette King and David ?? got teensy soundbites, about 5 secs each…

  29. Anne 29
    5 October 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Where’s the troll pack of wolves? Been called off by their Nat masters pending the outcome of an emergency meeting attended by Captain Panic Pants?

    • mickysavage 29.1
      5 October 2011 at 9:03 pm

      I think they realise that this is a loser event.  They want to downplay the event and say “so what”?

      Interesting that the post on Darien Fenton has 257 comments to now, mostly by RWNJS and this post has way fewer, almost all by left wingers …

      • Draco T Bastard 29.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 9:21 pm

        I think they realise that this is a loser event.

        I think it’s across the nation already and NAct will be doing their best now to shut it up rather than making a noise to try and deflect from what actually happened.

  30. John 30
    5 October 2011 at 9:04 pm

    “You’ve got to give the guy credit – he’s made some sound political points without resorting to nasty personal attacks or getting peoples’ backs up.

    Something Labour and leftards like Bomber could learn from.”

    For some light relief, the greatest thread
    post I’ve ever read…wow….Kiwiblog take a bow. Those Leftards are so rude..

  31. Anne 31
    5 October 2011 at 9:10 pm

    @ mickysavage
    Surely it is Labour’s prerogative to lay a formal complaint with the Speaker, Lockwood Smith over Key’s behaviour? The chances are he will respond with a negative ruling, but it would at least mean the issue remains in the public arena and can’t be shut down so easily.

    • mickysavage 31.1
      5 October 2011 at 9:13 pm

      Aye  

      Someone should have stood up and said they took exception at the PM doing … with a really good description of what he did.  Then it is on the record and Key has to explain.  I think Labour missed a golden opportunity although the film is pretty persuasive …

      • Carol 31.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 9:18 pm

        I believe Stuart Nash did in the General Debate. He said something about Key saying it was Labour’s fault that the guy tried to jump. Some Nat MPs objected – maybe because MPs are not meant to comment on what is happening in the Public Gallery.

      • Anne 31.1.2
        5 October 2011 at 9:24 pm

        To be fair to them I expect they were in too much shock to be able to think clearly. And the brutal and deliberate barrage of noise that the Nats set up would have only added to the confusion. The video evidence and corroboration by other members should be enough to make a formal written complaint an appropriate response.

  32. John 32
    5 October 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Mickeysavage,well said, haven’t cooled down myself it’s time to move on to hard core policy, because that’s where Labour can win.

    The downgrade was a shocker and if hammered correctly after the world cup when there will be an interesting vaacum for shocking stories; and much of nationals policy is shocking given the fantastic writings of the new wave of real figure economists that are emerging ,( big respect to all of them ,thankfully we finally have some visibliity) and thanks to principled money experts like Buffett and our own Gareth Morgan we , THEIR BOSSES ,can call their policies foolish and quite frankly uneducated and lacking in all sense of basic long term strategy beyond maybe 36 months.

  33. John 33
    5 October 2011 at 9:17 pm

    Not withstanding an investigation into todays vent of fury.

  34. freedom 34
    5 October 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Its all bad, the throat slit, the scurrying to bury what was said, or at least why, the very clear lack of concern expressed by the Prime Minister, but let us not overlook the positive

    I refer to the long overdue and absolutely brilliant spanking the House got from the Speaker.
    More of that please.

  35. Puddleglum 35
    5 October 2011 at 9:32 pm

    The throat slash gesture is a universal aggressive threat sign. Key used it just as Goff was about to resume his speech at the request of the Speaker. 

    It shows, for me, the subterranean aspect of Key that has essentially motivated him throughout his career; the ‘core of steel’ that, if you remember, those who knew him used to mention in those early biopics; the concealed ‘flick-knife’ up the sleeve of his affable personality commemorated in that intriguingly expressive ‘smiling assassin’ moniker (from those who felt the thin, cold steel).  His affability is merely the means to the ends that this darker side desires.

    Key’s first instinct was to use this incident for his own gain, expressed through his words; his second instinct was to threaten Goff with a quick gesture (something the mics would not pick up). Not, of course, to threaten Goff with physical violence but to note to Goff – man on man – that he will kill him politically, and the pleasure he will derive from that. 

    New Zealand, meet your Prime Minister. 

    • insider 35.1
      6 October 2011 at 1:44 am

      It is also Commonly used to mean stop, end it, no more, finish, cut, it’s over. Or it could be a non threatening jibe like you’re toast, you’re finished, you’re history, you’re a gonna (which given the polls Might be what key was meaning)

      Labour got upset over something and I don’t doubt it was genuine, but it wouldn’t be the first time someone said something across a playground that was misinterpreted or misheard.

      • Puddleglum 35.1.1
        6 October 2011 at 10:08 am

        Yes, I thought about the possibility of the gesture meaning “end it, no more, finish”, etc. but thought that he couldn’t have meant the actual speech (the Speaker had requested Goff re-start). If he was meaning Goff to stop doing something else it’s not at all obvious what that would be.

        He could have meant “you’re history, you’re a gonna” – which was my point about, in effect, gesturing that he would ‘kill’ Goff politically.

        That was my interpretation (and one that you see as possible, too) and it was that interpretation that led me to seeing the gesture as a threat (rather than a ‘jibe’). Clearly, emotions were running high for everyone, my interest was in the particularly emotions that appeared to be running high in Key in response to this episode. I don’t think the emotions underpinning the gesture were admirable or appropriate.

        • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 35.1.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 3:43 pm

          Puddlegums observation that “I thought about the possibility of the gesture meaning “end it, no more, finish”, etc. but thought that he couldn’t have meant the actual speech [snip] He could have meant “you’re history, you’re a gonna” – which was my point about, in effect, gesturing that he would ‘kill’ Goff politically” is funny, because there is no need to ‘end’ Goff politicially: Goff is doing it himself.

    • mike 35.2
      6 October 2011 at 3:22 am

      Fairly nice description of a sociopath there Puddleglum. Having watched the vid a few times now I feel we really saw the mask slip today. I have a degree in psychology, he is baiting Goff, classic sociopath tactic. He wants Goff to lose his temper, (not his style), or (more likely), get Goff to start publicly attacking his character so he can smile, act cool, and say that Goff is ‘losing the plot’ or is ‘desperate’. (Even though he badly deserves his character attacked of course.)

      This is disgraceful, low behaviour for a PM, the media should nail him, but it looks like our fearless pussycats will just put the blinkers on again.

      Where are you getting the ‘core of steel’ from? Can you link me?

    • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 35.3
      7 October 2011 at 2:12 pm

      In saying “The throat slash gesture is a universal aggressive threat sign” I assume you oppose haka then?

  36. The Voice of Reason 36
    5 October 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Just musing on the throat cutting gesture; anybody else reckon it’s down to Key’s wannabe tendencies? Obviously he’ll never get to do a haka with the AB’s, because he’ll never remember the actions, let alone the words, but the throat cutting bit appears to have lodged somewhere ugly in the nether regions of his subconscious mind.

    • Colonial Viper 36.1
      5 October 2011 at 9:47 pm

      Not “wannabe” tendencies, as a foreign currency trader, Key has extremely keen and well practiced cut throat instincts.

      He’s fucked over many people and institutions who have taken professional and currency positions against him, as a matter of daily routine.

      The man is the “Smiling Assasin”, a Wall St, Federal Reserve Bank sociopath.

      • The Voice of Reason 36.1.1
        5 October 2011 at 10:08 pm

        Hmmmm, why does that description sound so familiar?

      • mik e 36.1.2
        5 October 2011 at 10:38 pm

        Don Brash had his national tenure cut short by smiling assasin

      • mike 36.1.3
        6 October 2011 at 3:28 am

        “He’s fucked over many people and institutions who have taken professional and currency positions against him, as a matter of daily routine.

        The man is the “Smiling Assasin”, a Wall St, Federal Reserve Bank sociopath.”

        Do you have any examples/links for the first statement? Or do you just feel it follows necessarily from the second? (Not that I would disagree if so.)

  37. Leftard Chris 37
    5 October 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Hey John, what do you think calling people “leftards” is? Maybe we could call you a filthy right-wing scumbag mother-fucker? Would that be okay? And while we’re at it, what about your thick-as-a brick mate Cactus Kate and the anti-poor tirades she’s prone to spewing out? She says she’s just “stating her opinion on the facts” but she goes way further than that. Bomber’s spot on in the way he’s nailed how she recoils into nonsensical fits of rage and personal vitriol if someone “dares” to challenge the braindead logic she no doubt thinks is “smart” and witty”. “The acerbic Cactus Kate” – acerbic, my arse. She’s such a sorry excuse for a human and so destructive I couldn’t wait to see her in Parliament where the question wouldn’t be whether she’d destroy ACT into oblivion, but when. Imagine her in the House – she wouldn’t have lasted five minutes. But even better – neither would the party – she’s so toxic she would’ve inevitably taken ACT down with her. I was gutted finding out it was all a big fat lie.

    How’s that then, coming from a leftard?

  38. John 38
    5 October 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Shock brings instant emotions, he’s angry because he’s hot headed and he thinks hes lost the headlines to a gesture that’s a very extreme and dangerous show of dissent to parliament and the governing party. I hope he has. The World Cup is a weekend affair now, back to our massive inequality problems during the week.

  39. Nick K 39
    5 October 2011 at 10:37 pm

    There’s no issue with the “jumper” on the opposite side of the House to Key (on top of Labour) because that’s where the public gallery is ushered to. The Media sit above the Speaker and the group guests sit above the government. Distinguished guests sit above the entrance way, at the other end of the speaker. So the implication that this guy was somehow attacking Labour because of where he sat is a nonsense – he would have had no choice.

    • The Voice of Reason 39.1
      5 October 2011 at 10:49 pm

      Who says the guy was attacking Labour, Nick? 3News are reporting he was angry at his treatment as a beneficiary, which is why he yelled at Paula Bennett.

    • Draco T Bastard 39.2
      5 October 2011 at 10:50 pm

      Um, WTF are you talking about? No one’s suggested that he was attacking Labour. Some moronic RWNJs have tried to say that he was attacking John Key but that is, of course, nonsense for the same reasons you point out – he was just too far away.

  40. William Joyce 40
    5 October 2011 at 10:52 pm

    In a moment that could not be scripted by his handlers, the real John Key comes out. Not that crosby-textor crafted narrative of the everyman who came from poverty into riches but the petty, point-scoring little boy in search of validation who thinks that if he can just get people to laugh at his half-arsed attempts to get one over on the opposition then people will like him.
     
    Today we saw the real John Key and not the cardboard cut out. We should never let people forget it. That whiff of sulphur we have been smelling every time he speaks….today, if we had been close enough we would have seen the red in his eyes as he departed from script.

  41. HC 41
    6 October 2011 at 12:12 am

    Oh dear, oh dear! Our politicians do get exposed to a bit of genuine despair that usually is well hidden from them. The Mr and Mrs Clean Hands Brigade adjusted their collars, ties, and dresses, took a deep breath, looked a bit irritated and went on about their daily business, conducting pseudo debates in the form of the usual and mocked adverserial political blame game.

    Who gives a damn about the results of their policies, who cares a shit about people driven to such desperate actions, who gives a f*** about beneficiaries harassed daily by WINZ Nazis.

    I know full well what goes down and have heard enough stories how they break their own rules and laws to crack down hard, drive people to despair, into more poverty, marginalisation and in some cases into crime and prostitution.

    But to Don Keypone and his gang they are supposedly making “lifestyle choices”.

    Get the yellow armbands out and put them onto their arms. “Bludger” shall be written on yellow background. Future Focus and soon the new policies to be announced.

    The silent majority is glad to cling onto it’s shoestring budget lifestyle, and quietly many think, well, as long as I do not have to end there, I will not create a fuss or drama. I must get on with life and make the best out of it for myself. Turn the other way and walk around with blinkers.

    NZ is a strange country. Many things happen. Infants get put in washing machines, hung on clothes lines and drug- and alcohol abuse, domestic violence and more is rampant. It mostly happens behind closed doors, which is different from many other countries.

    So we are so “peaceful”, comfortably numb and wonder what all that was about. Ha, I wait for some bigger action than this to come.

    • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 41.1
      7 October 2011 at 2:25 pm

      Yeah, imagine just how cruel and unsual it is to ask someone seeking free money (taken from others) to prove they need it?!?! How nasty!

      And when they’ve been receiving hundreds of dollars a week for a year, the sheer injustice of asking them if they still need it is an abomination!

      • Jum 41.1.1
        8 October 2011 at 2:55 pm

        misanthropic curmudgeon 41.1 7 October 2011 at 2:25 pm

        said: “Yeah, imagine just how cruel and unsual it is to ask someone seeking free money (taken from others) to prove they need it?!?! How nasty!

        And when they’ve been receiving hundreds of dollars a week for a year, the sheer injustice of asking them if they still need it is an abomination! ”

        Yeah, I think his name is John Key and his followers follow the same selfish greedy thinking. Just one change – with John Key it is not hundreds of dollars a week; it’s thousands plus share returns on New Zealand assets he’s managed to get into.

  42. just saying 42
    6 October 2011 at 12:15 am

    I didn’t think I could be more appalled by the media bias, but this has shocked me. I still can’t quite believe the way this disgraceful behaviour has been reported. What hope has the left when the “journalists” the public rely on for information, have become pathetic, fawning, sychophantic, jonkey-groupies. I’m starting to believe Bomber when he says Key could torture and kill a kitten on live tv, and the media would blame the kitten and be outraged that that it had the audacity to bleed on his expensive suit.

    Unfuckingbelieveable. Gobsmacked.

    • idlegus 42.1
      6 October 2011 at 5:52 am

      yep, i watched tv3 news at 6 & saw the report where they did mention john keys behavior, then again the late night tv3 news where they had cut all the john key stuff out. it was there, & now it isnt. a clear case of media bias, now i am going to be listening to radio live at work this morning & look forward to more ‘spin’ & lies. i like what someone above said, john key was just using the universal throat cutting gesture of ‘just quit it’, ill use that next time my 3 year old daughter has a tantrum about somethin trivial (i dont think so).

  43. MrV 43
    6 October 2011 at 1:14 am

    This is one for the law of unintended consequences file!

    It was the Helen Clark Labour government who in 2005, (admittedly with the support of all parties) changed parliament over to the public feed.
    They probably could have done with the other networks being in the house over this incident.

    http://gonzofreakpower.blogspot.com/2005/03/tv3-democracy.html

    • Draco T Bastard 43.1
      6 October 2011 at 10:33 am

      What unintended consequence? The public got to see their PM in action as a shmuck which is an intended consequence.

  44. HC 44
    6 October 2011 at 1:26 am

    The poor guy that was so angry and desperate, so he was going to jump off the parliamentary balcony, he will now be charged for “breaking the peace” by our beloved “boys in blue”, is going to be examined for his “psychological conditions” and will be dealt to by the justice system.

    Paula Bennett is so concerned, yeah right, she will see that her staff will cover up the shortcomings of WINZ that must have led to this to happen.

    That is what they usually do.

    The media just reports a few lines about the drama, psychiatric assessment, police charges and court appearance, and the matter has been ticked off and dealt with.

    The vast majority of members of the public takes little more notice, many thing it must have been “one of those nutters cracking up” and get on with their own agendas.

    So all this will just be one other “bit of unusual newsworthy happening” that will sink down the drain like so much (mostly trivial stuff) reported on a day by day basis. Now what happened in parliament again on 05 Oct. 2011??? Ah well, there were a few questions asked, a guy caused a bit of attention for bizarre action and a few “distinguished” pollies held their valedictory speeches.

    Wave and Smile, don’t worry, all is in good hands. Trust the leader – Don Keypone

  45. Jenny 45
    6 October 2011 at 6:13 am

    “Opportunist”?

    More like venal monster, just aching for his Reichstag moment.

    “This is a Communist outrage!

    Goring

    “you should be ashamed of yourself, that’s down to you guys”

    Key

    A grateful Hitler called it:

    “a sign from heaven”

    Hitler

    According to history Hitler used this one event to suspend civil liberties, in this he was helped by the compromisers in the opposition parties.

    • Joe Bloggs 45.1
      6 October 2011 at 10:42 am

      That’s very restrained Jenny – not resorting to Godwin’s Law until this late in the thread…

      However you managed to make up for a late start by mentioning Hitler three times plus Goering, AND you managed to work the PM’s name in between them.

      A solid 7 out of 10 for sheer brazenness. The force is strong in this one…

      • felix 45.1.1
        6 October 2011 at 11:45 am

        How can Godwin’s Law be “resorted to”? Godwin’s Law describes a phenomenon, namely the increasing probability of a comparison with H1tler as a thread grows longer.

        That’s like saying you’ve “resorted to the Law of Gravity” by not floating off the earth.

        • McFlock 45.1.1.1
          6 October 2011 at 12:29 pm

          cue David Attenborough:

          The Right Winged Parakeet has a limited vocabulary and takes a very long time to learn new words. When it finally does learn a new word, it repeats it incessantly at the slightest opportunity. It is therefore one of the most annoying creatures in the forest, as well as the dumbest.

  46. JT 46
    6 October 2011 at 7:33 am

    A revealing video indeed, but hardly surprising. This a stereotype isn’t it – the style of behaviour key demonstrated can be found in thousands that “look just like him”. I’ve been victim of it myself, for owning an old car, for not owing a house, standing up for my basic legal rights, being “an oddball” (whatever that means in comfortable white middle-class vernacular). Scumbag was the tag they gave me – quite eagerly to my face. That and a whole lot of other more nasty names I won’t repeat here, but oddball and scumbag were something special to them. Stereotypes are sad when you meet them in real life because the person exhibiting them is on cruise control, not really present, just aping out a culture behaviour. So Key running his imaginary knife across his neck isn’t a big surprise. It isn’t the first time he’s demonstrated his cowardice. He legislated it in the 90 day hire/fire bill, so we all had a blatant warning. Sometimes it is true that “when we point the finger at others, three are pointing back at us.” I would suggest to the Labour MPs who understandably reacted with “scumbag” at Key’s behaviour, that they are using a word that has already been taken by their enemies to describe a person’s socio-economic status. While shock and outrage can be sudden, they should think about striking it from their professional usage and getting something else.

  47. Tanz 47
    6 October 2011 at 8:02 am

    Key showed his true colours in his response to this incident, the true colours that the general public generally just don’t get to see.
    Sitting there afterwards, smirking at the Opposition. Read it and weep, NZ. And this is our PM?
    Yikes. Knew he was a hollow man.

  48. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 48
    6 October 2011 at 8:35 am

    Yelling something about WINZ, Paula Bennett and John Key, he was caught at the last moment by guards.

    Anyone know where randal was yesterday?

  49. King Kong 49
    6 October 2011 at 9:07 am

    Not enough people are giving kudos to the protester. He represented the left magnificantly; willing to risk others lives coupled with an incoherent and insane message.

    • Carol 49.1
      6 October 2011 at 9:18 am

      Who would know what the attempted jumper represents? Our media tends to focus superficially on the drama of the moment, rather than do any investigation into the background. And the perp has been hustled quickly away from the media spotlight…. no charges, just a label of mental instability and incoherence. Where are the journalists looking into the background re-the operations of WINZ that might provide some context?

      • King Kong 49.1.1
        6 October 2011 at 9:26 am

        Be careful what you wish for Carol. Its likely he was just a beneficiary who had blown his dole cheque on booze and lung darts and was grumpy that the hard working NZ tax payers wouldn’t just dish him out some more dough.

        • felix 49.1.1.1
          6 October 2011 at 10:16 am

          Ladies & gentlemen, the right wing.

        • big bruv 49.1.1.2
          6 October 2011 at 11:57 am

          Damn right, well said Kong.

          • RedLogix 49.1.1.2.1
            6 October 2011 at 12:17 pm

            My partner and I have just spent much of the last few months trying to help my younger brother, who is deaf-blind (something charming called Ushers Syndrome), through the nightmare that is WINZ.

            As he puts it, “You can always tell when the Tories are in power, because dealing with WINZ goes from mildly aggravating… to mind-bending madness”.

            Now my partner is an experienced and capable business woman. She’s articulate and intelligent and is used to successfully dealing with banks, insurance companies, suppliers, large commercial leases and the like. Yet in her words, dealing with WINZ is a series of brick-walls, Catch-22’s and endless loops. The entire system is blatantly geared to ensuring that people remain ignorant of what is due to them, or remain helpless to claim it. She’s found it a frustrating and debilitating experience and openly wonders how people with lesser ability than her actually cope with the system.

            As far as she’s concerned it’s a wonder there aren’t legions of people attempting to throw themselves off the public gallery into the House.

            • Lanthanide 49.1.1.2.1.1
              6 October 2011 at 3:22 pm

              Just curious, how does your brother communicate?

              • Draco T Bastard …
                6 October 2011 at 3:57 pm

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usher_syndrome#Characteristcs

                Usher syndrome has three clinical subtypes, denoted as I, II and III.[3] People with Usher I are born profoundly deaf, and begin to lose their vision in the first decade of life. They also exhibit balance difficulties and learn to walk slowly as children, due to problems in their vestibular system. People with Usher II are not born deaf, but do have hearing loss. They do not seem to have noticeable problems with balance; they also begin to lose their vision later (in the second decade of life) and may preserve some vision even into middle age. People with Usher syndrome III are not born deaf, but experience a gradual loss of their hearing and vision; they may or may not have balance difficulties.

                Usher syndrome is a variable condition; the degree of severity is not tightly linked to whether it is Usher 1, 2 or 3. For example, someone with Type 3 may be unaffected in childhood but go on to develop a profound hearing loss and a very significant loss of sight by early to mid-adulthood. Similarly, someone with Type 1, who is therefore profoundly deaf from birth, may keep good central vision until the sixth decade of life, or even beyond. People with Type 3, who have useful hearing with a hearing aid, can experience a wide range of severity of the RP. Some may maintain good reading vision into their sixties, while others cannot see to read while still in their forties.

  50. millsy 50
    6 October 2011 at 10:20 am

    Nasty. No real need for that comment.

  51. thejackal 51
    6 October 2011 at 11:11 am

    John Key is a Scumbag!

    John Key showed his true colours yesterday after a young man tried to jump from the public gallery into Parliaments debating chamber. Thankfully security and members of the public caught him before he fell the five metres to the floor, which would have resulted in serious injury if not death. It is likely that the young man was trying to commit public suicide…

  52. Richard Down South 52
    6 October 2011 at 11:40 am

    It saddened me to see this from people who are supposed to be held in respect…

  53. big bruv 53
    6 October 2011 at 11:55 am

    The howls of faux outrage in this thread are hilarious.

    Key was dead right to point the finger at Labour and Goff, the shrieking of that stupid old bat King only made it all the more funny.

    Some of you have such very short and selective memories, what Key did was nothing compared to the abuse that the previous hideous creature we had as PM hurled across the house.

    Both the event and the faux outrage from the left have brightened my day, it was jolly good sport.

    • Jum 53.1
      6 October 2011 at 12:17 pm

      big bruv,

      And if the man had succeeded in killing himself on the floor of Parliament, your comment would be?

    • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 53.2
      7 October 2011 at 2:36 pm

      “haters and wreakers”
      “we won, you lost, eat that”
      “reich pricks”
      “feral”
      etc….

  54. Jum 54
    6 October 2011 at 12:14 pm

    ‘Bennett told ONE News it was frightening.

    “The public were amazing up there, as much for the poor guy’s safety to be honest it’s fairly obvious he’s got some issues and needs some help, I actually felt quite sorry for him,” she said.’

    Given that the man mentioned Paula Bennett’s name, I can only assume he had already asked for help from her and her department and was rejected. Was any type of support following his rejection given?

    This is of serious concern to me; remember the father who committed suicide over an escalation tax bill (under $100 I believe which then increased to just under $100,000). The IRD refused to assist him. Soon after he killed himself out of sheer hopelessness his son followed him.

    That was not a case of mental problems; that was a case of victimisation by a government department.

    It was a National government.

    There are never appropriate support systems to help people under NAct because they consistently destroy the effectiveness of public services.

    This is a vote of No Confidence in John Key and his mob. They should be ashamed that not only have they been the cause of this man’s attempt to throw himself from the parliamentary balcony but that they have learned nothing, absolutely nothing, from their previous policies.

    They hate workers.

    They believe in a gap between rich and poor and will always seek to keep that gap. Both English and Key have stated publicly that a low-wage economy for New Zealand workers is a good thing. The low wages will remain low as long as Key and Co remain in government.

    • big bruv 54.1
      6 October 2011 at 4:14 pm

      Goodness me Jum, do you think you could get any more outright lies into one comment?

      National do not hate workers, they want more of them.

      This of course is in stark contrast to the Labour opposition who want more and more people to be on benefits, your idea of closing the gap between the ‘rich’ and the poor is to steal more money from the rich and give it to the poor without asking the ‘poor’ to do anything for that money.
      No wonder we are a nation of bludgers and parasites.

      • Ianupnorth 54.1.1
        6 October 2011 at 4:21 pm

        BB, you even lower your own level of stupidity – Labour are proposing training so more people can actually get into work that is provided by investing in our undustry capabilities. The Nats only want to reduce wages, which, like their “tirckle down” tax cuts and National Standards, are failed overseas policies.

        • big bruv 54.1.1.1
          6 October 2011 at 6:22 pm

          Ian

          “investing in our undustry capabilities”

          Freudian Slip?….or just another name for the bloated public service that Labour wants to bring back.

      • Jum 54.1.2
        6 October 2011 at 8:02 pm

        Dear, dear, what a loser you are, big bruv.

        The mounting number of unemployed people is what Key wants in order to lower the wages still further to reduce the expenses for those investors that will be streaming into New Zealand to hack off pieces of our children’s future, if Key is voted in to sell our assets.

        You are so rude. Unlike you, I did ask for your comment. When will I learn? Your opinion is worth nothing.

        Nothing like being told the truth to get the bruvs on the attack.

        You ars (speaking of Freudian slips…are) so keen to give my opinion as well as your own; but as usual both of your comments are wrong.

        MY opinion is that people are working the second longest hours in the OECD, often at more than one job, being subject to higher tax rates because one job’s wages is not enough to sustain them, and I want you to explain to me who these bludgers and parasites are.

        You waffle so much, of course, that I’m inclined to discount anything you mumble as crrrrrrrrrrrrrap.

        Your hero Key is a bludger on the taxpayer and he is a parasite on the tail of the other parasite investors that will take all our future dividends and he will buy up our assets. Key and your Act party are ‘leeching’ all the goodness out of a quality country.

        You silly little boy; take a chill pill.

  55. Leftard Chris 55
    6 October 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Sorry John – I should’ve seen that you were quoting some right-wing idiot, presumably over on kiwiblog? May I simply redirect my response in that direction, then. Apologies, John.

  56. thejackal 56
    6 October 2011 at 9:19 pm

    I wouldn’t mind hearing from the young man who tried to jump over the banister? This seems to be a rather charged issue and I wouldn’t like that to cause any undeserved punishment. It will be interesting to see if we learn of his identity and what the full story is.

    • Colonial Viper 56.1
      6 October 2011 at 9:26 pm

      If he gets charged we’ll soon know the details.

    • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 56.2
      7 October 2011 at 2:43 pm

      I suspect his commenst would sound sometinthing like this:

      “barrrr want money baaaarrrr my right baaaaraaaarrr entitlement baararararaa deserve barraarr community reponsible for me brraararar not my fault bbbaaaarrrra conspiracy bararara nine-eleven baaarrararara poverty braraaaaraaarrrr TIA barraaraaraar basket weaving baraararararara rich pricks bararsrsr”

      With the odd *drool* and *frothing* thrown in, for good measure.

      • Anton 56.2.1
        7 October 2011 at 5:25 pm

        Same could be said of your ilk, the ill-informed talkback radio biggots…”bludgers…[bile drips from mouth]…they’re all the same…[bile drips from mouth]…lazy pricks…[bile drips from mouth]…get a job…[bile drips from mouth]…taxpayer’s money…[bile drips from mouth]…they’re all the same…[bile drips from mouth]…get off your arse…[bile drips from mouth]…they’re all the same…[bile drips from mouth]…there’re plenty of jobs…[bile drips from mouth]…my taxes pay for that…[bile drips from mouth]…they’re all the same…[bile drips from mouth]…useless bastards…[bile drips from mouth]…they’re all the same…[bile drips from mouth]…if I was prime minister…[bile drips from mouth]…push ’em all over a cliff…[bile drips from mouth]…

        Your analysis is one-dimensional. You ignore so many things, not the least being that we’re not all the same and can’t all cut it in a world designed by the haves for the haves. Theoretically there’s provision for people who miss out, but it’s those of your ilk that want to draw the line way too far from where it should be. You have no compassion. That’s the problem with this debate because the climate of opinion has shifted so far to accepting disdainful attitudes and blame towards the poor there’s no room for compromise. Go back to Radio Live where you’ll be listened to, or better still, Red Alert.

  57. Jum 57
    6 October 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Yep – saw Key do the cutting throat action against Phil Goff – shame on Key.

  58. HC 58
    6 October 2011 at 10:00 pm

    After all “The Standard” does not take much of a standard stand at all these days. It is the standard meciocre centre left gossip forum for all those wanting to be a little bit left or not so left after all. That does hardly change things, it does never make for a revolution, but then again that is exactly what nobody here wants, right? Do not rock the boat too much and just change a few deck chairs on the Titanic, and all will be well, right? So Labour is the party of great traitors of the working clas anyway, they lost it years ago and now try to get back and cosy with the workers. I think Mana and the Greens have more integrity than that lot! So bear that on mind on 26 Nov. 2011.

    • Jum 58.1
      6 October 2011 at 10:43 pm

      HC

      At least the university students have finally seen through Key. They will punish him severely for his betrayal of them through Steven Joyce.

      And you may well be right about the complacency of The Standard – which I love because it is a place to have your say.

      However, in voting for Mana and the Greens you are voting for Mana as the Maori vote and the Greens – nobody is sure anymore.

      Kindly also remember that the working man and woman of so many decades has changed in their goals and their thinking; maybe they are not quite needy or desperate enough yet to understand that Labour actually did redress some of their issues. In the 21st century, women and men need to rethink their goals in line with technology and with global thinking.

      Remember that Kiwis love Key so much they are happy to accept lower wages and shit or no jobs as long as they can keep him smiling at them.

      I’ll leave you with that dilemma.

      • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 58.1.1
        7 October 2011 at 2:51 pm

        Jums comment that “the working man and woman of so many decades has changed in their goals and their thinking” is quite true, and this i someting that Labour have not clicked onto, and show no desire to undersatnd.

        The modern tradie is a self-employed person, bidding and winningon work based on his contacts, abilities, price, comeptance, and reputation. (S)He has to deal with ACC, OSH, IRD et al. (S)He sees reward from effort, and sees the concequences of his actions, and is mertitocratic.

        (S)He has little symapthy for the layabout, the indolent, the unproductive, the quota-lover, the compellor and the academic. Which is Labours focus.

        This is why these tradies have flocked to National, the National governemsnt has 2/3 of the country’s support, and Labour are languishing in the 20’s wondering when ‘people will wake up’.

        • Anton 58.1.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 5:56 pm

          This is yet more proof that shows your analysis is one-dimensional: you either put everyone into the categories of “the layabout, the indolent, the unproductive, the quota-lover, the compellor and the academic”, or you put far too many people into those categories. Sure, you’ll say you’ve got no problem with a safety net aimed at “those who are truly in need”, but again, how do YOU determine “who’s truly in need”? Can you tell everything about a person just by looking at them? Do you take into account structural and economic reasons for unemployment? Do you see increases in sickness and disability related benefits as also caused by things structural, or do you consider yourself a walking medical assessor who can smell a shyster at forty feet? Do you think removing the income from a person with mental health problems will miraculously provide sustainable employment? Well, your observer-on-the-street analysis might sound good to people who enjoy a whinge on TalkbackZB, but it’s plainly wrong. What it does show, though, is that you have no ability to put yourself in other people’s shoes, therefore no compassion, either. Quick! Get over to Red Alert! I heard Annette King might be saying something about poverty!

        • HC 58.1.1.2
          7 October 2011 at 6:06 pm

          Those ‘tradies’ and other contractors you refer to are simply the modern day ignorant proletariat, divided into the more “successful” on better income and the “less successful” just barely making ends. You forgot to mention that this type of employment was enforced on many by employers off-loading their staff, re-hiring them as “contractors” and continuing to exploit them of worse terms. For instance courier drivers have to pay tens of thousands for a van bearing the logos of their contracting party (e.g. franchisor), then also have to get their own accountant to do the books and pay tax and so forth. The employer still makes a nice profit by having the contractor as defacto employee do all the work for him. Governments have condoned or even supported that trend. So the defacto employees often compete against each other to make a living. It is not really economical for them, only for the company employing these contractors. Instead of centralised accounting, wage, salary and tax payments we have many individual contractors forced to do all that work besides of their own normal work, unless they employ and accountant. Then they often work 50 or 60 hours a week to earn a living. Great success – for the company employing contractors, but hardly for most contractors.

        • Jum 58.1.1.3
          8 October 2011 at 4:14 pm

          My sincere apologies to both Anton and HC that I could have said anything which makes the misanthropic curmudgeon imagine he/she has anything in common with me.

          I shudder at the thought.

          I do not need to even reply to the fuckwit because you two have answered perfectly for me.

          Thank you both.