Our influence in Australia

76 comments on “Our influence in Australia ”

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1. Draco T Bastard 1

   18 October 2015 at 10:52 am

   This ‘family relationship’ that we have with Australia is turning into a seriously abusive one and we should end it forthwith.
   • vto 1.1

     18 October 2015 at 10:59 am

     Yep agree. We are quite strong enough to stand on our own and tell them to get lost..

     Of course this path that Australia is on is a path that John Key would feed the chickens over…. the path to the USA and its end-play… We have been pulled into war with the US and Australia, both of who suffer terrorism acts because of their militarism in the middle east. This deportation exercise is simply part of that. John Key knows it and as such will do little about it other than let us be pulled into it.
     • tinfoilhat 1.1.1

       18 October 2015 at 12:38 pm

       How would you and DTB envisage ‘ending our relationship with Australia’.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         18 October 2015 at 12:53 pm

         It’s more of a recognition that we already don’t have a special relationship with Australia. Drop the special visas that we’ve put in place and treat Australians just like any other country as far as immigration and tourism goes. You know, just like how they treat us.
         • Craig H 1.1.1.1.1

           18 October 2015 at 3:51 pm

           There are no special visas for Australians as such, just the grant of Residence on arrival – ideally, they would treat us the same way.
       • Once was Tim 1.1.1.2

         18 October 2015 at 8:34 pm

         Stop the pretense of the ‘ANZAC’ spirit just for a start. End cosy little ANZAC day ‘celebrations’ – which should actually be commemorations.
         Lets begin by ending what has become simply symbolism rather than anything of real substance.
         The nail in the coffin of the ‘special’ relationship occurred in 2001.
         Next, apply the very same rules to Australians as Australia applies to NZers.
         Next, say thanks but no thanks to COAG attendance.

         Actually we could go quite some way.
         …. require Australian banks to ……. (I’m sure you get the picture)

         Lets stop the bullshit pretense.
         What was effectively just another Australian State type relationship 50 years ago (as I mentioned somewhere elsewhere here or on TDB) is now nothing other than PR and bullshit.
   • Grindlebottom 1.2

     18 October 2015 at 12:44 pm

     The “family relationship” New Zealand has with Australia is a myth and to use that phrase is a sick joke. Our people have been second class citizens, treated like rubbish in that country, since February 2001.

     Most New Zealanders living in Australia think of themselves as permanent residents, but they are not. Since 2001, Kiwi new arrivals have been classified as “non-protected” SCV holders. Unlike all other permanent residents, they are not entitled to unemployment benefit, student loans and, depending on the state, disability and maternity support, social housing or transport concessions. This is because, technically, these Kiwis are only “temporarily” residing in Australia even if some of them have lived there since their [sic] were toddlers…

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/72589479/deportation-of-hundreds-of-kiwis-has-been-brewing-for-more-than-a-decade
2. Bill 2

   18 October 2015 at 11:06 am

   This whole thing is beyond me. Sure, I understand that some people who have lived in a country for most of their lives can be threatened with deportation due to missing paperwork etc, but…

   …okay, let me put it this way.

   If NZ adopted Australia’s policy, then I, as a permanent resident who has been here for over 20 years, could be deported to the UK for a motoring offence. That’s fucked.

   Good to see ‘the Greens’ protest it.

   The Australian and New Zealand Greens have lodged a complaint with the Australian Human Rights Commission on the policy.

   Not so good to read this.

   New Zealand’s Labour leader, Andrew Little, also met with Turnbull.

   He said he was not seeking a law change on Kiwi visa revocations, but had asked that Australia exercise its discretion on a case-by-case process – particularly where an individual had lived in Australia since they were a child.

   And this just gives me the shivers.

   “The one thing I would say is we need to negotiate with these guys, not put them in an armlock, because if we try to put Malcolm in an armlock, what will end up happening is he will actually have to face the domestic politics of his own people,” Key told Radio NZ late last month.

   I mean, is Key suggesting that accountability is a bad thing and ought to be avoided? I’m confused.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     18 October 2015 at 11:58 am

     If NZ adopted Australia’s policy, then I, as a permanent resident who has been here for over 20 years, could be deported to the UK for a motoring offence.

     Is it? Why haven’t you gone and got citizenship in that time?

     Sure, I really don’t think that people who have been living in a country for so long should be deported and that an automatic citizenship is probably more appropriate but would it really have been that hard to formalise the relationship before hand?

     I actually think that the best option we could do as a response to this type of action is to actually take care of our people. Send a plane to pick them up, fast track all the documentation that they need and support them in resettling. These people are essentially political refugees and we shouldn’t be doing any less for them than what we do for other refugees we take in.

     If Australia wants to be a bunch of scumsuckers then let them but end our relationships with them as they obviously don’t want those relationships.

     I mean, is Key suggesting that accountability is a bad thing and ought to be avoided?

     Of course he is – he really doesn’t expect his type of people to be held to account at all, ever. Taking responsibility for their actions is only appropriate for poor people.
     • Bill 2.1.1

       18 October 2015 at 12:18 pm

       I don’t want citizenship Draco. There are a number of reasons for that decision.

       Now on the possible scenario outlined in my comment – if someone was deported back to Britain, it wouldn’t really matter how helpful the UK government was going to be.

       They’d have lost friends, networks, (possibly) family, direction/purpose etc – ie, a huge cross section of what makes for a sense of security…and on top of that possibly be ‘getting on’ in life. Essentially, the UK would be as a foreign country. Add to that the fact that it’s not hard to figure why most people who emigrate, or who emigrate successfully, do so when they’re younger rather than when they’re older…
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1

         18 October 2015 at 12:49 pm

         I don’t want citizenship Draco.

         Then you don’t get to complain about being deported for committing a crime.
         • Grindlebottom 2.1.1.1.1

           18 October 2015 at 1:46 pm

           Well, yeah, he does if he’s been here for more than 10 years. New Zealand isn’t quite so draconian.We have a scale of sorts that links the gravity of the offence (as reflected by the possible sentence) to the period of time they’ve lived here as a permanent resident.

           [D2.15.40 Immigration NZ Operational Policy Manual]

           A Residence Class Visa holder can be deported if:
           convicted of an offence in New Zealand or elsewhere for which the court has the power to impose a sentence of:

           * 3 months – if they’ve held an RCV for up to 2 years
           * 2 years or more – if they’ve held an RCV for up to 5 years

           or if they are:
           *convicted and sentenced to imprisonment for a term of 5 years or more (or for an indeterminate period capable of running for 5 years or more), if they’ve held an RCV for up to 10 years.

           http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/5ED735EA-02B7-41EE-BB9A-6B60FCBE2BE1/0/Compliance.pdf/

           Any RCV holder served with a Deportation Liability Notice can appeal to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal (Dept of Justice), within 28 days, on humanitarian grounds, i.e. that:
           • there are exceptional humanitarian circumstances that would make it unjust or unduly harsh to deport them from New Zealand; and
           • letting them stay in NZ would not be against the public interest.

           The IP Tribunal will decide either to:
           a) allow the appeal; or
           b) allow the appeal and suspend the RCV holder’s liability for deportation for up to 5 years; or
           c) decline the appeal; or
           d) decline the appeal, but reduce or remove the period they are prevented from entering New Zealand; or
           e) decline the appeal, but delay deportation.

           http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/immigration-protection-tribunal/documents-1/ipt-guide-3-deportation-appeal-residents
           • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.1.1

             18 October 2015 at 2:29 pm

             Yes, there are rules that say that when a person, who is not a citizen, commits a crime then they get deported. The obvious and only solution to this state of affairs for long term residents is to become a citizen.

             Personally, I don’t like the idea of permanent residence. IMO, there are three states that a person can be in:

             1. Short term visitor (tourist, business, government)
             2. Long term with goal of becoming a citizen at the end of the period (5 years IMO)
             3. Citizen

             Both of the first two are susceptible to being deported if they commit a crime and doing so would also prevent them from becoming a citizen.
             • Grindlebottom …

               18 October 2015 at 2:49 pm

               It’s a tricky issue. Some countries allow dual citizenship, some don’t. Oz, NZ, UK, USA, Canada all do, for example. Austria, Netherlands, Japan, China, Indonesia, Chile don’t, just as a random sample.

               It’s a big decision to renounce your citizenship of one country for another. Especially if you harbour thoughts of eventually returning to your homeland after 20 years of working in another country.

               I’ve always been a bit surprised that some nationals of countries who’re allowed dual nationality don’t bother to get NZ citizenship. Lots of Brits didn’t used to bother. Dunno if more do now. Something to do with it being easier to travel on a Brit passport they used to say when you asked them.

               It’s a pretty small number of residents who wind up getting deported from NZ for crimes. It’s not a risk for most permanent residents.
               • Craig H …

                 18 October 2015 at 4:05 pm

                 The Australian law which brought in the deportation for 12+ months cumulative imprisonment also automatically revokes the Australian citizenship of dual citizens (other than citizens by birth), so getting citizenship in most of these instances would not help.

                 A Permanent Resident Visa doesn’t prevent deportation for cause, it just means the holder’s resident visa doesn’t expire if they leave NZ.
                 • Grindlebottom …

                   18 October 2015 at 4:38 pm

                   A Permanent Resident Visa doesn’t prevent deportation for cause…

                   Thanks, yes. Interesting. Looks from the Immigration Act like people are liable for deportation at any time if they are found to have been granted a residence class visa:
                   – in error
                   – under a false identity
                   – due to fraud, forgery, false, misleading, or concealment of, relevant information
                   – or they are a security risk.

                   They can also be turfed out within 5 years of getting a Residence Class Visa if information turns up showing they were or should have been “an excluded person” or they weren’t eligible under the character rules. grounds.
                 • Grindlebottom …

                   18 October 2015 at 5:38 pm

                   The Australian law which brought in the deportation for 12+ months cumulative imprisonment also automatically revokes the Australian citizenship of dual citizens (other than citizens by birth)), so getting citizenship in most of these instances would not help.

                   What’s your source for this statement Craig? I found this interesting but haven’t been able to find anything that actually confirms this after googling for a while with various queries.

                   Strictly speaking the aussie deportation point is 12 months or more (not 12 months+, which means more than 12 months.)
     • greywarshark 2.1.2

       18 October 2015 at 3:30 pm

       DTB
       I agree with much of your comments. But why should someone be deported for committing ‘a crime’ – unspecified. We can all err, and a crime or going to prison for any length of time does not mean that we are beyond the pale. There should be more than having served a few terms in prison making up to one year or whatever. That is just a nasty cop out from a mind that is on mechanical default.
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1

         18 October 2015 at 4:13 pm

         Well, I wasn’t about to list all the crimes that they should be deported for with reasoning and ones that they shouldn’t be deported for with reasoning. That would take far too long and result in one hell of a long comment.
         • Grindlebottom 2.1.2.1.1

           18 October 2015 at 4:44 pm

           It sounds like most or all of them will have appeals in the pipeline. I think they have to appeal to a body called the Administrative Appeals Tribunal – Migration & Refugee Division.

           I don’t know what grounds they can base their appeals on, isn’t as easy to find out as it is for our Immigration and Protection Tribunal. So I don’t know what the chances are of some people with long residence and family in Oz being allowed to stay. None of these newspaper reports seem to comment on the appeal process in any detail.
   • Rosie 2.2

     19 October 2015 at 8:41 am

     I see your point Bill.

     What if the shoe were on the other foot. Would we accept such absurd and cruel policy as the Aussies have?
     Just speaking with Mr Rosie about this last night. He has been in NZ since he was 7 years old, is an Australian and EU citizen and a permanent resident of NZ.

     Now, he’s never had any trouble, not even a parking ticket, in his life. But what if his life was different and he did have a few minor offences and NZ decided that wasn’t acceptable and booted him out back to a country he doesn’t know? He would be leaving behind a solid career, his commitment to supporting the community through his civil defence volunteer work, his loved ones and his life he had always known.

     It’s no different for those being detained and deported. These people are Australians. Lets not keep referring to them as NZer’s when they’re only NZ er’s in name because of their citizenship status. There is no valid reason to be parting people from their families and lives over minor and moderate offences they have already paid for in jail time.

     It just stinks of that deep seated Aussie prejudice towards who they perceive as “foreigners”. Their white Australia policy and centuries old oppression of the indigenous people has left a dark stain on the national physche – I see their deportation of fairly ordinary people (not just NZ citizens) as part and parcel of this contempt.
3. greywarshark 3

   18 October 2015 at 11:23 am

   When it comes to dealing with Australia the media reports that we are asking for ‘compassion’ for Kiwis over there. Rights are not mentioned, standards of fair and mutual treatment are not mentioned. We act like doormats to the Australians, and they are a hard bunch on each other, except for the Greens perhaps. When it comes to us they all turn in concert, show their teeth and bite us front on, side on, back on, on our butts, our shins, anywhere. They need better training while they are still puppies.

   If anyone is reading this, and has factual information about Australians here perhaps they could find it and put it up, or a sentence summary and the link/s. I wonder what is being spent in NZ on social welfare, prisons, ACC, and the things that our government has been asked to provide for us. We should be thinking about cutting down/out on government spending on them.

   Oz gets enough out of us in profits for ‘their’ banks, which we have happily allowed them to take over and which create a credit bubble that boosts their profits and out costs, also their supermarkets that won’t guarantee they will sell our products in Australia, and make us compete with theirs on our shelves here.

   Screwed and wimpish, that’s their view of NZ, and probably is a reason for them leaving us out of Anzac thinking when celebrating their efforts. What good would NZ have been in the war anyway, the younger people would think as they look at how weak and wet our country appears now.

   [r0b: I will leave your comment on posting problems in moderation for lprent to see]
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     18 October 2015 at 12:00 pm

     +1
     • Bill 3.1.1

       18 October 2015 at 12:27 pm

       +1? Really?

       So let’s all impose the worst of all possible worlds on ourselves rather than fight for the best? Let’s be the meanest as opposed to the more humane? Let’s drag down and not drag up? – okay –
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

         18 October 2015 at 12:51 pm

         Nope. Australia, and a few other countries, are making things worse. We don’t have any choice or voice in that. All we can do is respond to their actions. In this case that means taking in our people and caring for them. We don’t get to demand that Australia does that.
   • greywarshark 3.2

     18 October 2015 at 4:07 pm

     Thanks r0b that has worked as help in diagnosing etc. Great.
   • Once was Tim 3.3

     18 October 2015 at 8:41 pm

     btw …. have you ever watched the OZ MSM coverage of ANZAC commemorations?
     The NZ in ANZAC barely rates a mention most times
     • Rosie 3.3.1

       19 October 2015 at 9:08 am

       I used to work for an Australian company in 2000 – 2001. I had my eyes opened to how Aussies really view NZer’s when I visited the offices in Melbourne.

       I got the sense they don’t view us as ‘mates” at all. If anything they were indifferent and any time they did offer an opinion it was tainted with their sense of superiority over us.
       The boss in particular was overtly condescending towards NZ but “liked to visit because we had good wine, coffee, and food”. I was somehow meant to take this patronising bollocks as a compliment after he had run down everything else about our country.

       But guess what. The real laugh was getting a phone call one day from the admin person. She told me “we have a public holiday tomorrow so you won’t be able to contact us”. It was ANZAC day. I said “what do you think the NZ stands for in ANZAC?” She seriously didn’t know, so I had to inform her. I let her know we also have the day off.

       It was made clear to me that the company wasn’t interested in how their business was run in NZ or how our employment laws worked. Our country was just a source of revenue for them, like their banks see us as a source of revenue, nothing more.

       As for ANZAC’s. Who are they?
4. greywarshark 4

   18 October 2015 at 11:42 am

   lprent
   I am having trouble getting comments through to TS again. I have received a too many pages in a minute box and been timed out for this reason – Reason: Exceeded the maximum number of page requests per minute for humans.

   What I was doing was trying to find where my comment had gone, refreshed with Home, than tried with F5, comment is probably in spam or moderation or something as it’s till not up.

   I am using an old Firefox browser number and am about three updates behind, should be on 40.1.2 or something similar and I’m still on 39 or something. Don’t know if that makes a difference. There is no rest for net users because of the wicked, it seems.
   Always having to protect against the net vandals and thieves.

   [r0b: Leaving this in moderation for lprent to see]
   • lprent 4.1

     18 October 2015 at 12:02 pm

     I am still chasing this one. There are no logs about why it is happening. No new part of the system appears to be responsible.

     I’m about to go to heroic measures of turning parts of the system off and on looking for what affects it. But that will take some time to binary search for the issue.
     • greywarshark 4.1.1

       18 October 2015 at 3:56 pm

       Thanks lprent and your post was amazing. And I am going to set up a small monthly donation that I can afford through automatic payment. Otherwise I never have any money when I actually think of it. The blog is invaluable so I’ll do something concrete (not ‘eave ‘alf a brick though) and start paying my bit.
       • lprent 4.1.1.1

         18 October 2015 at 4:12 pm

         Always grateful for any donations. I’m just sorry that it took so much time to find it and fix the problem.
5. tanz 5

   18 October 2015 at 12:31 pm

   He simply doesn’t care. It’s always about photo ops and instant fame with Key. Hollow as…
   • Aaron 5.1

     18 October 2015 at 1:01 pm

     Exactly what I thought. I can just see Key and Turnbull in private having a joke about all the silly stuff that the media thinks they’ll be discussing – meanwhile the staff do the work and give Key a few lines to read at the end of it all.
     • Gangnam Style 5.1.1

       18 October 2015 at 3:50 pm

       Which was what came out of the infamous ‘teapot tapes’ between Key & Banks, they were discussing what they would tell the waiting media what they were discussing! Hollow men.
6. Colonial Viper 6

   18 October 2015 at 1:05 pm

   Uh, Australian authorities treat Kiwi workers over in Australia as cheap second class labour. That should make it very clear how they view NZ. It’s about as much influence Mexico has with the United States.
   • millsy 6.1

     18 October 2015 at 3:46 pm

     You are right. Australia is, and will always be, Australia’s Mexico (without the sex tourism) No amount of ANZAC propaganda will change that.
7. Whispering Kate 7

   18 October 2015 at 1:36 pm

   I can see in the future many NZ families who reside in Australia, some for many years, packing up and coming home. especially if one of the kids has ended up in goal and on the deporting list. I have at least four nieces/nephews residing over there, some for 18+ years plus. In their families I see, coming up there will be teenage trouble in the future. No matter how much we despair of our kids, when they get into the wrong sort of trouble/crowd shit happens and we do our best. Nobody who loves their kids will remain in Australia and not return to NZ to support them if they are deported back here.

   Australia has become a paranoid and hard country and we are not too far behind them. Many people these days have no desire to travel to the US because of their disrespectful and frightening manner at immigration counters and with gun shootings out of control and it will become the same with Australia. Who honestly wants to enjoy a holiday there knowing an infringement of some sort could end you up up in jail with no fairness in their legal systems. Imagine being in Canberra and innocently taking a photograph where its not permitted. We were caught once over there taking a photograph in a railway station (lovely architecture) and were rudely sent on our way. Australia has become an annex of the US and has unfortunately caught the US’s ghastly disease. It won’t be too far off when we will be afraid to reside in our country and that’s the way Governments today want it to be. Orwell saw it coming.
   • greywarshark 7.1

     18 October 2015 at 3:49 pm

     It’s ironic really. A friend had one of her sons go to Oz, a nice young chap working up on the Gold Coast, and a couple that he knew fell out and the woman left but was being stalked by the aggravated partner. She sought safety with the son, he answered a knock at the door, and got knifed. He came back to NZ cremated, in a little box. Why is Oz worrying about NZs?

     I would say that NZs elevate more than the IQ but also the EQ over there. People here have such rosy ignorance about the situation there. Parents with adult children with families there have no qualms about it, so are unprepared. We are too easy peasy and complacent.

     There are Kiwis being pauperised, in effect stateless, over there and the Australian politicians don’t care and the people used to be too busy going to the RSL clubs and playing the pokies, don’t know their preoccupations now. They aren’t quick to rouse about injustice, and specially not for Kiwis. As they sing in Les Miserables ‘Bring them Home’.
     • greywarshark 7.1.1

       18 October 2015 at 4:03 pm

       Bring Him Home
       This is a beautiful duet-trio-quartet – worth a listen.
       
   • alwyn 7.2

     18 October 2015 at 4:24 pm

     “some for 18+ years plus.”
     If they have really been there that long they are probably able to get citizenship as they were there before 2001.
     Tell them to apply, NOW.
     Then it won’t mean deportation if they end up in jail.
     • Whispering Kate 7.2.1

       18 October 2015 at 4:53 pm

       Australia can take away their citizenship if they want to so that isn’t safe either. Dual citizenship would be the only safe guard or they would end up living in an airport lounge for the rest of their lives.
     • greywarshark 7.2.2

       18 October 2015 at 5:04 pm

       Problem is, when I was checking on the citizenship thing a while ago, Oz authorities tightened up criteria and only consider those who have had a certain number of years residency I think, which is more than just a permit to stay, AND they are only interested in certain skills and if you don’t fit you have no chance of being accepted for citizenship.

       I would think that most of the Kiwis living there long term would have been under their original documentation, and not gone further, imagining that they were long-term accepted citizens and would be okay as NZ-Oz were on equal matey terms.
       • alwyn 7.2.2.1

         18 October 2015 at 5:38 pm

         That is why I commented on people there for 18+ years.
         As the Australian website on New Zealand citizens becoming an Aussie points out
         “Note that if you were living in Australia prior to 26 February 2001, you may already be a permanent resident. ”
         If you are a permanent resident you can become a citizen.
         There are various rules but if you were actually there on 26/02/2001 you will qualify. If you weren’t actually there on the day there are various rules about time in the previous year or two and so on.
         It was her comment about the 18+ years that makes it quite likely her relatives do qualify.
         • greywarshark 7.2.2.1.1

           18 October 2015 at 8:30 pm

           Hope they give it a try then, preferably with some community legal advocate with them.
8. Tory 8

   18 October 2015 at 2:04 pm

   So while you like to blame the current Government for the predicament of convicted criminals, lets not forget Labours previous position:

   ‘…Yet despite international pressure for New Zealand to follow suit, especially from Australia, the Government remains opposed. Justice Minister Annette King says: “New Zealand citizens who commit offences overseas must expect to be dealt with according to the justice system of the country whose laws they have broken.”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10481059

   When you break the law you pay the consequences, likewise when you break the terms and conditions by which another country has allowed you reside, work and live there you also pay the consequences.

   Perhaps ‘Paul’ and others should have investigated the consequences before deciding on activities that result in jail and deportation.
   • Colonial Viper 8.1

     18 October 2015 at 2:07 pm

     so you like seeing Kiwis treated like dirt by Australian authorities?
   • RedLogix 8.2

     18 October 2015 at 8:32 pm

     The point is Tory – the law is being applied retrospectively.

     Paul – was first convicted (of a pretty minor drug offence with no dealing involved) in 2011. The rule change happened this year.

     So I’m struggling to follow your logic that Paul should have ‘investigated’ in 2011 consequences that did not come into existence in 2015.

     Put yourself into the man’s wheelchair for a moment – and consider just what choices you might make when in pain, grief and loss.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1

       18 October 2015 at 9:44 pm

       What a waste of time explaining the facts to a Tory is: they’re motivated by hate and facts make them cling to their hatred even harder.
   • Lloyd 8.3

     18 October 2015 at 9:23 pm

     But if you are Maori and are convicted in Australia, there seems to be a higher likelihood of a gaol sentence and if you get a gaol sentence,, a likelihood that it will be longer than that of a white Australian. Therefore you are more likely to be shipped off to Christmas Island with the other brown skinned “criminals”. This appears to be racism, not a balanced or logical policy.

     We must also remember that one of the drivers for the tougher attitude towards New Zealanders post 2001 was that we let Asians and Polynesians into our country and the Aussies didn’t want migrants from Asia and especially Polynesians getting into Oz after they got NZ citizenship. This is clearly racism.

     New Zealand needs to reciprocate with similar policies towards Australians in New Zealand. A concentration camp in the Chatham Islands would be an appropriate first step. We should invite Malcolm over to open it. We are tough bastards us Anzacs!

     Screwing up people’s lives like the Aussies seems to be far easier policy for our John than actually getting the present Aussie government to see the inhumanity of its present policies – after all neoliberalism is basically stupid and inhuman so John won’t know how to argue for the rights of New Zealanders sucked into the Oz economy then spat out as being too brown.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 8.3.1

       18 October 2015 at 9:46 pm

       Tory is a bigot. Good luck getting them to disapprove of racism.
9. Tory 9

   18 October 2015 at 3:08 pm

   It’s not about “Kiwis treated like dirt”. Like many Kiwis I have lived and worked overseas. Many countries have harsh penalties and consequences should you wish to flout their laws. Singapore makes it abundantly clear at the airport that’s it’s the death penalty if you get caught trafficking drugs. Australia will deport non citizens if they do jail time.
   Read the small print, respect the country that you have chosen to work in and no problems. If you choose to assault, burgle, rob, rape or murder people then take the consequences regardless.
   • Colonial Viper 9.1

     18 October 2015 at 3:11 pm

     Sounds like you are excusing nasty authoritarian regimes treating disabled Kiwis like dirt.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 9.2

     18 October 2015 at 3:14 pm

     🙄

     Everyone here knows you believe this very very much, since you say it ad nauseam like a talentless Bellman.
   • Whispering Kate 9.3

     18 October 2015 at 4:57 pm

     Spoken like someone who has never erred in their life – – mate you have never lived you are one of the walking dead.
10. Penny Bright 10

    18 October 2015 at 4:48 pm

    CENSORED!!!!

    NO media, New Zealand or Australian has covered this ‘in your face’ PROTEST outside Government House Auckland!

    Where ex-Merrill Lynch NZ Prime Minister John Key, was having the first ‘bilateral’ talks with ex-Goldman Sachs Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull:

    The (ex?) BANK$TERS’ BILATERAL?

    Gee! Wonder what John and Malcolm discussed over their (private) dinner on Friday night 16th October 2015?

    How best to look after the interests of the corporate / bank$ter 1%?

    TPPA – STAND UP!
    Saturday 17 October 2015

    Check out these photos yourself – if you dare!

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1128231627189528&set=ms.c.eJw9zcENwDAIQ9GNKoyBOPsv1jYJuT592YCLDskSFOvBB06mD2iSOoBakH7Ap8LSaWENpQVZDbmhLkRRWQE0YBWwLiQsCDZU~%3BLfyW6StYkQD94Zu4fm~%3BJP3AmBvKXyMJL6g~-.bps.a.852990618046965.1073741825.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1128229840523040&set=ms.c.eJw9zcENwDAIQ9GNKoyBOPsv1jYJuT592YCLDskSFOvBB06mD2iSOoBakH7Ap8LSaWENpQVZDbmhLkRRWQE0YBWwLiQsCDZU~%3BLfyW6StYkQD94Zu4fm~%3BJP3AmBvKXyMJL6g~-.bps.a.852990618046965.1073741825.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1128229580523066&set=ms.c.eJw9zcENwDAIQ9GNKoyBOPsv1jYJuT592YCLDskSFOvBB06mD2iSOoBakH7Ap8LSaWENpQVZDbmhLkRRWQE0YBWwLiQsCDZU~%3BLfyW6StYkQD94Zu4fm~%3BJP3AmBvKXyMJL6g~-.bps.a.852990618046965.1073741825.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1128228380523186&set=ms.c.eJw9zcENwDAIQ9GNKoyBOPsv1jYJuT592YCLDskSFOvBB06mD2iSOoBakH7Ap8LSaWENpQVZDbmhLkRRWQE0YBWwLiQsCDZU~%3BLfyW6StYkQD94Zu4fm~%3BJP3AmBvKXyMJL6g~-.bps.a.852990618046965.1073741825.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1128228647189826&set=ms.c.eJw9zcENwDAIQ9GNKoyBOPsv1jYJuT592YCLDskSFOvBB06mD2iSOoBakH7Ap8LSaWENpQVZDbmhLkRRWQE0YBWwLiQsCDZU~%3BLfyW6StYkQD94Zu4fm~%3BJP3AmBvKXyMJL6g~-.bps.a.852990618046965.1073741825.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1128228253856532&set=ms.c.eJw9zcENwDAIQ9GNKoyBOPsv1jYJuT592YCLDskSFOvBB06mD2iSOoBakH7Ap8LSaWENpQVZDbmhLkRRWQE0YBWwLiQsCDZU~%3BLfyW6StYkQD94Zu4fm~%3BJP3AmBvKXyMJL6g~-.bps.a.852990618046965.1073741825.100000081045781&type=3&theater

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    • Melb 10.1

      18 October 2015 at 6:22 pm

      Pay your rates Penny.
11. greywarshark 11

    18 October 2015 at 5:07 pm

    Thank Penny for the heads up. Fancy that – Key and Turnbull both ex? financiers. Big Norm would turn in his grave.
12. Penny Bright 12

    18 October 2015 at 6:13 pm

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/01257778-5acb-11e5-9846-de406ccb37f2.html#axzz3otLspOVx

    September 14, 2015 4:48 pm

    Malcolm Turnbull succeeds in bold bid for Australian leadership
    Jamie Smyth in Sydney

    Former Australian Liberal Party leader and Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull speaks to the media that he asked Prime Minister Tony Abbott to open up the party’s leadership to an internal vote at Parliament House in Canberra, Monday, Sept. 14, 2015.©AP

    Malcolm Turnbull, a former lawyer and investment banker, is popular with Australia’s public and its business community

    He has been a Goldman Sachs investment banker, successful lawyer and leader of the opposition. Now, Malcolm Turnbull has made the defining move of his career by taking on and beating Tony Abbott for the leadership of the centre-right Liberal party to become Australia’s new prime minister.

    On a day of high political drama, Liberal party members voted in favour of Mr Turnbull by 54 to 44 — sealing his elevation to party leader and prime minister-designate. “This will be a thoroughly liberal government committed to freedom, the individual and the market,” he said after his victory.

    The 60-year-old politician — who resigned as communications minister to attempt the political coup d’état — is the public’s most popular choice as prime minister, according to opinion polls.

    But until now the socially progressive MP has struggled to win the support of conservative Liberal backbenchers who in 2009 voted to oust him as Liberal leader in favour of Mr Abbott.

    …….
    Mr Turnbull, son of a hotel broker father and radio actress mother, studied law at the University of Sydney before winning a Rhodes scholarship and attending Oxford university.

    He rose to become one of Australia’s most powerful lawyers, acting for entrepreneur Kerry Packer and successfully defending Peter Wright, the former MI5 agent who authored the book Spycatcher, against the British government, attracting the ire of Margaret Thatcher.
    ……..
    He went on to set up an investment bank with two partners, including Neville Wran, the late Labor politician and former premier of New South Wales, before becoming managing director of Goldman Sachs Australia from 1997 and 2001.
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Interesting ……

    Seems that Malcolm Turnbull was managing director of Goldman Sachs Australia during the same time that John Key was Head of Derivatives for Merrill Lynch and a Foreign Exchange Advisor for the New York Federal Reserve?

    Also very interesting that in the official ‘biography’ of Malcolm Turnbull – the bit about his being managing director of Goldman Sachs Australia – is conveniently missing?

    Check for yourselves:

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/meet-malcolm/biography

    What Malcom Turnbull obviously wants to know – is how on earth someone with John Key’s ‘bank$ter’ background, could have become one of the (in my opinion), most successfully ‘spin-doctored’ politicians on the planet?

    Penny Bright
    • Rosie 12.1

      19 October 2015 at 9:20 am

      +1 Penny. Yes, very interesting “coincidence”
13. Freemark 13

    18 October 2015 at 6:33 pm

    So we now expect Australia to give up it’s Sovereignty (ie ability to pass & enforce law madeby a democratically elected Government) for a few feral NZ’érs?
    Or we expect our PM to tell the PM of another country that as a few of us don’t like their laws they should change them?
    • greywarshark 13.1

      18 October 2015 at 8:24 pm

      It’s true that it is free to write on TS, or for those who can’t write, to leave their mark – probably a big cross. That’s all you needed to do really.
14. johnm 14

    18 October 2015 at 6:48 pm

    Australia is a racist fascist dump. They think they’re special. they’re not they are land of bigots and loudmouth aholes. Time to tell them to fuck off and treat them like foreigners. Bunch of high and might scumbags. What Turnbull needs is a good bollicking and told where to fuck off to.

    [RL: I’ve been working and living in Australia two years now. The vast majority of people have been really decent and friendly towards us. Most are pretty surprised when I explain just how their govt is treating Kiwis over here as third class citizens. Your uncouth and emotive generalisation doesn’t stack up. In fact it rates as a pretty good Kiwi example of exactly what you are bitching about.

    Don’t repeat it or you’ll draw more moderating attention to yourself.]

    [lprent: I did look at this comment and wondered about responding. But then I thought, someone will point out the obvious. ]
    • Grindlebottom 14.1

      18 October 2015 at 6:56 pm

      Send him a letter and sign it “a well-wisher” 🙂
      • greywarshark 14.1.1

        18 October 2015 at 8:21 pm

        G/b I like that. Send as is, could it be bettered?

        The comment was one that will appear on some idiots blog as an example of the low standard of insults that TS contains. I’d rate it at a 3. a bit repetitive I thought.
    • Adele 14.2

      19 October 2015 at 8:09 am

      Teenaa koe, Rob

      “The vast majority of people have been really decent and friendly towards us”

      And may I ask, who are you? Do you look like a white Australian? Australia is well known amongst the non-white as a racist country. Worse than NZ by a long stretch.

      You need only look at the treatment of the indigenous peoples there to gauge some depth to their racism. How decent and friendly are they towards the aborigines?
      • RedLogix 14.2.1

        19 October 2015 at 10:46 am

        Adele.

        I assume you are responding to me above.

        You are quite correct in one sense, in that rarely does an Australian leave in much doubt as to what he/she thinks of you. New Zealanders may be more polite to your face – but I’m not sure we can collectively stand on much of a pedestal here.

        In my observation Australia is just a somewhat more socially conservative country (largely due to the more dominant historic influence of the Catholic Church here) and is about a decade behind NZ in terms of attitudes and change. It shows up in other ways, especially around domestic violence.

        However the handful of Maori I’ve met in Australia seem for the most part to be doing very well thank you. In some ways Maori in this country seem to escape the burden of low expectations they live under when back home. Maybe I hang out in all the wrong circles.

        Yes Australia has it’s own brand and flavour of racism. It’s different to ours, but that doesn’t make them worse people than us. The situation with Aboriginals has been appalling – yet it is not without hope of redemption. There of plenty of Australians who understand this.
15. Neil 15

    18 October 2015 at 7:27 pm

    The Australian’s could do well to remember this saying
    “Do unto other’s, as one would have done to them self.”
    Karma will come back & bite the Australian’s eventually fair & square.
16. Kiwiri 16

    18 October 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Did anyone hear the RadioNZ piece when Andrew Little spoke?
17. John Shears 17

    18 October 2015 at 10:06 pm

    It’ not just the Kiwis that have committed crimes that the Ockers are tough on , just thank your lucky stars that you weren’t born an Aboriginal.

    The convict and Ned Kelly dna seems to be still alive & well.
18. vto 18

    19 October 2015 at 7:04 am

    The nutty thing about this nutty policy of the aussie wankers is that when every single country does it, all the crims will do a manoeuvre around the globe and on average no country will have less crims than before. It is all a waste of time. Aussie will deport some and receive others back.

    So if all crims return, the only determinant on which country is the most filled with crims will be based on …….

    … dunno, but aussie looks like the winner in terms of crim count given that is where the poms dumped their dregs just a generation or two back… the irony is sumpreme

    Idiots.
19. johnm 19

    19 October 2015 at 3:39 pm

    Imagine how this suffering tetraplegic man felt being dumped at akl airport after living in Australia for 36 years bereft of any support. Very little short of what the Nazis did, they would have shot him but emotionally and spiritually he has been shot! In my book that’s a crime against human decency, these Australians have no dignity or conscience, yet we lie down and just take it!
20. DaveG 20

    19 October 2015 at 3:58 pm

    Never Let the Truth or facts get in the way of a good story or whinge aye. That Tetraplegic, (changed from Quadraplegic in hte past) (Not by the Standard) it just so happens he is another Kiwi Crim, who never ever bothered to become an Aussie, or failed as he had a criminal past that excluded him. Well, turns out he has a massive conviction for Drug dealing, link below. And the nice Australians accomadated him well. Oh, and he was the cause of his Quad/tetraplegic state. The car crash was his own fault, but hey, Aussie paid.

    These Kiwi Crims held in detantion, every one of them has been in Prison for over 12 months, and all they have to do is say okay, i will return, and away they go back ot NZ within a week or so.

    Its about time these pathetic excuses for Kiwis learnt, do the crime, do the time, then tata, farewell, and don’t come back.

    Lastly, the Aussie justice system works, it does not HUG criminals or give them a slap with a wet bus ticket. Just watch a few episodes of the Aussie highway patrol and the soft as kiwi version – different outcomes. If only the Kiwi Cops, and Justice actually dealt with criminals hard, and properly.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/ecstasy-boss-becomes-first-quadriplegic-to-be-jailed-20090530-br1j.html

    For the record, I have dual citizenship, no criminal record, so its not a problem for me.

    As a kind initiative, I suggest Kelvin offer a home to these poor misunderstood souls so they can escape detention and return to NZ to be with their whanau. You trust them Kelvin, im sure they will be fine in your home, sharing facillities with your whanau, and children, what could possibly go wrong ?
    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1

      19 October 2015 at 4:05 pm

      Your failed self-serving vengeance fantasies produce more crime and worse criminals. Yes they do: they increase recidvism, for one thing.

      Why do you want an increase in the crime rate? What’s wrong with you? Do you think believing your drivel very very much makes you less responsible for the hate that oozes out?

      Come on, justify your vile opinions. Tell everyone why you don’t deserve withering contempt.
    • maui 20.2

      19 October 2015 at 4:25 pm

      15 year age difference between the person you’re talking about and this person, completely different date and circumstances around how they were both injured. you must be on planet key.

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1. Kelvin Davis on Christmas Island « The Standard: posted on 19 October 2015 at 6:03 pm

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