Pike River – who to believe?

45 comments on “Pike River – who to believe? ”

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1. SpaceMonkey 1

   2 May 2017 at 12:23 pm

   Ockham’s Razor… this Government has a history of lying. I believe the Pike River families.
2. michelle 2

   2 May 2017 at 12:25 pm

   Well someone is telling porkies and based on the gnats track record and there lack of recall I think its them. How does the saying go ‘ once a liar always a liar’ and they have polished there fibs and porkies.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     2 May 2017 at 2:06 pm

     +1
3. marty mars 3

   2 May 2017 at 12:37 pm

   Yep they would never forget it. English going down – he’s a joke, a liability, out of his league, beyond the pale, ding ding it’s lunchtime billy – time to go. How close are the gnats going to play this game of chicken before they blink the bogus bill bloke away and replace his sorry arsk with WIN material.
   • mickysavage 3.1

     2 May 2017 at 4:13 pm

     Agreed they would never forget it. The video is mesmerizing. Imagine having one of your family presumably dead in a mine and watching video as the robot goes down the drift. It would not be something you would ever forget.

     I am really disturbed that no one has ever had to face the music about what happened.
     • AmaKiwi 3.1.1

       2 May 2017 at 8:28 pm

       +1

       They would never forget.

       The old boys always look out for each other.

       If there is no independent prosecutor, there isn’t any corruption. The world is told we are free of corruption and Nicky Hager is just a conspiracy theorist. Don’t complain. She’ll be right.
4. mosa 4

   2 May 2017 at 12:40 pm

   Of course English and the police are lying because if the families had seen the footage it would not have been necessary for the video to be ” leaked “.

   The fact that this evidence was withheld from a royal commission is in its self an appalling faliure.

   Twenty nine men have died here and this government is still playing games with their families six years on from this disaster, first with John Key’s atrocious deceitful statements and now with Bill English treating all of them with contempt.
   • Sabine 4.1

     2 May 2017 at 12:53 pm

     so gut it needs to be repeated

     Of course English and the police are lying because if the families had seen the footage it would not have been necessary for the video to be ” leaked “.

     + 1
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     2 May 2017 at 2:09 pm

     The fact that this evidence was withheld from a royal commission is in its self an appalling faliure.

     Withholding it is lying by omission.

     Twenty nine men have died here and this government is still playing games with their families six years on from this disaster, first with John Key’s atrocious deceitful statements and now with Bill English treating all of them with contempt.

     It’s the National Party – the contempt for workers has always been there.
   • Anne 4.3

     2 May 2017 at 8:04 pm

     … English and the police are lying because if the families had seen the footage it would not have been necessary for the video to be ” leaked “.

     Yep. A bit like the responses to “Hit&Run” by the NZDF and govt. Political quackery engaged in and not a whimper from the MSM. Instead they concentrate on the 12 hour delay of Labour’s list announcement. Got to get their priorities right. (sarc)

     Edit: I see the H&R point has been mentioned by others. No matter. The more it’s said the better.
5. saveNZ 5

   2 May 2017 at 12:42 pm

   Yep, +1 to Pike River families. Think their recollection might be more accurate…
6. Ad 6

   2 May 2017 at 1:17 pm

   The media play of this leak goes as low as it gets. MSM wants no justice – just perpetual story.

   English will need to fully front to tv and flood them with footage.

   V similar to Clark and the “corngate” GMO book tv interview IMHO.
   • SpaceMonkey 6.1

     2 May 2017 at 1:37 pm

     Because there is a story. If this National Government had acted with honour and John Key had kept to his word, none of this would be an issue and… it may very well have been settled by now.
   • marty mars 6.2

     2 May 2017 at 1:40 pm

     Liars get caught – the media report it – they arent making the story. People died and people care about that.
7. ianmac 7

   2 May 2017 at 2:20 pm

   English relies on briefings.
   Keating says no problems so English says no problems.
   Police say miners were shown videos. So English says they were shown videos.

   A wise Leader would say we had better check. Somebody is wrong.
8. mary_a 8

   2 May 2017 at 2:59 pm

   More shabby treatment of the families of the mine victims of Pike River, by this uncaring government.

   Given Natz history of deceit, lies and subterfuge, it’s really a no brainer.

   The Pike River families have no reason to lie or cover up. They will be telling the truth … whereas on the other hand, the dirty, devious Natz …!!!
9. WILD KATIPO 9

   2 May 2017 at 3:23 pm

   As the shock of the video was released and time was given to rally a defense, we see how the story changed ….

   ……………………………………………………………..

   PM rejects Pike River cover-up, launches detailed criticism of news report
   By Isaac Davison
   6:30 PM Monday May 1, 2017
   New Zealand Herald

   ”Last night, police told Newshub that they did not hand over the footage to a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the mining disaster because it was assessed as having no evidential value. This added to the families’ feeling of a cover-up.

   Police deputy commissioner National Operations Mike Clement said today that the police had mistakenly been referring to an earlier piece of video evidence taken inside the mine in November 2010. English confirmed the March 2011 footage had been turned over to the commission of inquiry.”

   ……………………………………………………………………

   AND THE ONLY problem with this whole thing is that not only do the Pike River family’s all say they had never seen that footage , – the lawyer who represented them , Nigel Hampton QC says he never saw it despite ‘ putting pressure on Police to release all footage ‘

   Pike River footage reinforces call for re-entry to mine, lawyer says
   10:52 AM Monday May 1, 2017
   New Zealand Herald
10. Red 10

    2 May 2017 at 3:34 pm

    Audrey young reports news hub and green have been very dodgy on this. Men where never more than a couple of meters in the mine A shame for the conspiracy theorists though
    • mauī 10.1

      2 May 2017 at 4:20 pm

      I guess you ignored what was reported then, that the video shows wall-e the robot going 1500 metres into the mine. Did you look at the time stamps on the video? You think wall-e was sitting there a few centimetres into the mine with the barn door wide open for a whole 3 frickn hours? and then bizarrely fries its own circuits for no reason??
      • mordecai 10.1.1

        3 May 2017 at 12:17 am

        Maui the video has been edited by NewsHub to sensationalise their story. They are a disgrace to journalism, and are making things worse for the families.
    • McFlock 10.2

      2 May 2017 at 4:26 pm

      Define and cite “a few metres”, pls.
      • mordecai 10.2.1

        3 May 2017 at 12:09 am

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1705/S00014/pike-river-video-footage.htm
        “NZMRS personnel went no further than two (2) metres into the drift during this operation.”
        • Psycho Milt 10.2.1.1

          3 May 2017 at 6:15 am

          The same item mentions them going up to 300m into the drift, so Red’s “never more than a couple of meters” claim is bogus.
          • mordecai 10.2.1.1.1

            3 May 2017 at 10:59 pm

            Fair comment. My concern is more about the media misinformation, which is now a matter of increasing public disgust.
    • ianmac 10.3

      2 May 2017 at 4:36 pm

      Audrey Young always writes to defend her family and her PM and if there is a spiteful angle to put against the Labour Party, she does not hesitate.
      Believe her at your peril Red.
    • WILD KATIPO 10.4

      2 May 2017 at 4:44 pm

      Red , you seem to forget the Police changing their story as they seem to have caught the National party disease in conveniently forgetting facts….

      One day they deemed it as ‘ no evidential value’ and didn’t show it.

      The next day they say they did and that all the family’s including their lawyers viewed it. Including the Royal Comission.

      At least with QC Nigel Hampton and the Pike River family’s they have been emphatic all along they had never seen it.

      I think you and Audrey need to take some memory pills yourself along with some Top Brass of the Police and certain National party MP’s – including their PM.
      • mordecai 10.4.1

        3 May 2017 at 12:13 am

        Red is correct, there is massive misinformation being spread.
        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1705/S00014/pike-river-video-footage.htm
        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.4.1.1

          3 May 2017 at 5:32 am

          The National Party falls victim to media misinformation? That’s terrible. Will you be ok?
          • mordecai 10.4.1.1.1

            3 May 2017 at 11:00 pm

            I’m ambivalent to that. My concern is for the families, who are being mislead.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.4.1.1.1.1

              4 May 2017 at 8:17 am

              The families say they have access to more material than the media, so you will need to find some different lines to spray your wholly fake concern.

              If the families release more material and it becomes an election issue, the right will attack them.
              • mordecai …

                6 May 2017 at 6:08 pm

                Now we all have access to the video. 13 hours of it. There is no cover up, just a dishonest media. And by some of their own. (“We didn’t see the video…”)
                • One Anonymous Bloke …

                  6 May 2017 at 6:15 pm

                  If you say so. Personally, I’m happy for the media narrative to portray the National Party as callous lying scum, because that’s the truth.
                  • mordecai …

                    9 May 2017 at 9:56 pm

                    May be so. But not in this case.
11. dukeofurl 11

    2 May 2017 at 3:36 pm

    Confusion Marketing 101

    Same old same old for the Afghanistan villages story as well

    You can see a trial of confusion over previous aspects Pike River.
    Did Key promise to ‘categorically get the boys back’ or did he promise to do ‘the best they could ‘- the video showed it was ‘ absolutely get the boys back’
12. tc 12

    2 May 2017 at 4:23 pm

    if you were laying odds about national telling the truth over pyke river then it would be long odds and no end of bookies would take your money.

    When shonky said ‘Whatever it takes ‘ he was referring to protecting corporate interests, workers are expendable resources under national.
13. Incognito 13

    2 May 2017 at 4:51 pm

    The pattern has become all too familiar: innocent people die (e.g. Pike River, Hit and Run) and this National Government tells us that there’s nothing to see folks, please move on. Sometimes the Truth will not be found and not everybody will be ‘satisfied’ with it but we should at least make a genuine and honest attempt. National proves again their contempt for the Truth and those who seek it.
    • Red 13.1

      2 May 2017 at 5:02 pm

      What you want to believe and truth may be two different things unfortunately It’s probably just time for every one to move on, its just politics now with the left taking advantage of family grief for political gain,
      • McFlock 13.1.1

        2 May 2017 at 5:09 pm

        ^ case in point.
        • Incognito 13.1.1.1

          2 May 2017 at 9:26 pm

          🙂
      • WILD KATIPO 13.1.2

        2 May 2017 at 5:45 pm

        So what would you suggest the public do , Red ?… just lie down and wait until the next workplace disaster and more people die?

        Pull out support for the Pike River family’s and tell them all ” their all just a bunch of whiners and just get over it ? ”

        Just like Key called one of the women who embarrassed him and called him out on his bullshit duplicitous promise ?

        Adopt the ‘ nothing to see’ line every time someone suspects corporate skulduggery and Worksafe lets off the Manager scot free because its a bad look for future mining corporate’s concerns like this ?

        Forest & Bird says Government has secret mining plans for Denniston …
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11848323
14. David Mac 14

    2 May 2017 at 5:11 pm

    Can’t a drone with a cam and a light be programmed to not bump into things?

    Send in the drones.
    • WILD KATIPO 14.1

      2 May 2017 at 5:52 pm

      Why not trust in the worlds eminent mines safety experts opinions and implement what they have already suggested and done a number of times instead in actual practice ?

      Kind of hard to gather concrete forensic evidence just with a drone…

      Isn’t it.
15. Ross 15

    2 May 2017 at 5:16 pm

    Nigel Hampton says he doesn’t recall seeing it during the Royal Commission and he recently consulted with another lawyer who doesn’t recall seeing it.

    But it should be a relatively easy matter to settle as the Royal Comission should have a record of the exhibits that were presented.
    • WILD KATIPO 15.1

      2 May 2017 at 5:55 pm

      ” But it should be a relatively easy matter to settle as the Royal Comission should have a record of the exhibits that were presented.”

      Fair comment.

      But then we would have to reckon on whether the family’s have actually seen it as well. And so far they and their lawyer say they didn’t.
16. Jum 16

    2 May 2017 at 8:18 pm

    If they get the go ahead to open up to check for family members, station a trustworthy guard on that opening night and day. Too much could conveniently go wrong.

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