Praise for Labour’s tertiary bombshell

31 comments on “Praise for Labour’s tertiary bombshell ”

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1. vto 1

   2 February 2016 at 8:46 am

   I’m sure it will be liked by everyone except right wing baby boomers who are pulling the ladder up behind them, and right wing office-bound youngsters who lack any useful life experience. That would be about it.
   • Puckish Rogue 1.1

     2 February 2016 at 11:51 am

     I’m sure Max Key won’t mind taking advantage of this scheme if Labour get in
     • Lanthanide 1.1.1

       2 February 2016 at 12:22 pm

       He won’t be eligible: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11513568

       “The Prime Minister’s son is studying commerce and property at the University of Auckland.”
       • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1.1

         2 February 2016 at 12:31 pm

         Ah well substitute any rich person with a school age kid and you get the same result

         The rich and middle class get their kids tertiary education paid for
         • Anno1701 1.1.1.1.1

           2 February 2016 at 12:41 pm

           “The rich and middle class get their kids tertiary education paid for”

           and why not..fairs fair, class should be no barrier

           mind you given the state of the feckless rich in this country I cant see them doing very well free or not …

           I mean why even try if mum/dad have that job lined up for you with a friend/relative any way
         • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.2

           2 February 2016 at 12:47 pm

           Rich peoples kids already get an almost free education because the rich dodge taxes. This allows them to claim that they have fuck all income and thus their children get the Student Allowance and don’t actually have to borrow to live like most other students.

           Of course, everyone should get a free education. What we shouldn’t have is the rich.
         • Ch-ch Chiquita 1.1.1.1.3

           2 February 2016 at 12:49 pm

           So what? They pay taxes and are entitled to see their taxes work in favour of their family. And it will be very good for everybody else that can’t afford paying the fees.
           • Smilin 1.1.1.1.3.1

             2 February 2016 at 5:32 pm

             tax is suppose to be for the good of all not a slush fund that the rich get to run by Natcorp
         • McFlock 1.1.1.1.4

           2 February 2016 at 12:56 pm

           lol

           The three responses above suggest that your blatant appeal to ‘the politics of envy’ failed dismally. It’s almost as if you fell for your own bullshit.
           • Kevin 1.1.1.1.4.1

             2 February 2016 at 2:17 pm

             Speaking of the ‘politics of envy’, Chris Trotter had this to say:

             “If you’re talking about the poor envying the security of the rich: the certainty that bills can be paid; food afforded; a roof put over their children’s heads; then, yes, of course they envy them. And if Labour’s determination to extend that basic security to everyone is what you mean by the politics of envy – then we plead guilty-as-charged. But if you’re accusing Labour voters of envying those who lack any semblance of empathy, solidarity and generosity towards their fellow citizens, and who see in money and material possessions the be-all and end-all of human existence, then you are dead wrong. For Labour voters do not envy such New Zealanders – they pity them.”
             • McFlock …

               2 February 2016 at 2:29 pm

               Nice turn of phrase.
               • righty right …

                 2 February 2016 at 6:00 pm

                 these rich wankers don’t want anyone else getting a home food or an education there rationing resources keeping down the competition pulling the ladder up what ever you want to call it .money is only a claim on goods and services and it all for me me me me me .there a disease that needs to be removed i hope labors next policy is to get tough with tax evaders tax evasion is theft and should be treated as theft if they can arrest a student they arrest and jail these bastards that owe millions
           • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1.1.4.2

             2 February 2016 at 2:46 pm

             “The politics of envy” is yet another empty slogan the right blurt out, with the intention of shutting down any actual discussion on the very important issue of rich and poor.

             Textbook Crosby Textor.
             • Reddelusion …

               2 February 2016 at 6:31 pm

               Text book Crosby textor is what the left blurt out on any dicussion of actual importance
               • The Other Mike …

                 2 February 2016 at 9:38 pm

                 Do you even know Crosby Textor – what they do? And who they work for?

                 Obviously not.

                 Try somewhere else red (again)…
           • Whispering Kate 1.1.1.1.4.3

             2 February 2016 at 7:52 pm

             It’s commonly known that the wealthy “choose” to pay taxes with very creative accountants and lawyers, too many stories circulate about how they manage their finances so they get Community Services cards and yes I have knowledge of this myself. Also student benefits for themselves or their kids by managing their company expenses so they qualify for them – I have knowledge of this as well. Don’t tell ordinary New Zealanders they, the wealthy deserve the perks of a free education like everybody else – they have been fleecing funds blind for years and milking it for what’s worth. Company car parks, golf fees paid, private insurance looked after – it goes on and on. Why doesn’t the IRD tackle the big bludgers who don’t pay their taxes – because its too expensive and they are untouchable that’s why and too nasty and dangerous to probe, so its put in the too hard basket. Let’s benefit bash instead, its easier.

             And, no, definitely no we am not envious, we live well and definitely are not poor, we have what we want and can sleep at night knowing we have paid our taxes by PAYE for almost 45 years – our conscience doesn’t bother us one bit. It is not politics of envy just disgust at the dishonesty of what goes on around us. Our kids don’t have don’t have a God damn chance with the declining standard of scruples and lack of moral compasses surrounding us.
             • idbkiwi …

               2 February 2016 at 9:43 pm

               Good points, well made.
         • ankerawshark 1.1.1.1.5

           2 February 2016 at 5:47 pm

           Oh good Puckish rogue, then we can cream off some of the right wing voters. Excellent. Afterall they are likely to vote for things that benefit them….
2. indiana 2

   2 February 2016 at 10:19 am

   Are you sure? It will appeal mostly to the right wing baby boomers and office bound youngsters who want to get a free education in the name of changing their career mid way through their working lives – the ones that got jobs and then managed to move up the corporate ladder with out any qualification in the first place. I fear there are so many unintended consequences of the policy similar to many government policies.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     2 February 2016 at 12:51 pm

     Due to you failing to make any sense wotsoeva I fear that you’re an idiot who simply doesn’t have a fucken clue WTF they’re talking about.
     • Kevin 2.1.1

       2 February 2016 at 2:19 pm

       Obviously no critical thinking skills taught in indiana’s education.
3. b waghorn 3

   2 February 2016 at 12:54 pm

   Out of interest if someone had 1 year left in their study at the time this policy is introduced would they be eligible.?
   • weka 3.1

     2 February 2016 at 1:08 pm

     From what I can tell, at this stage the answer is no but Robertson has said that Labour will be announcing more policy that will address this later. I hope Labour clarify this over the next week, because that was GR on his FB page, which isn’t how policy should be made clear.

     Also, the years 1, 2, 3 free fees is being rolled out over time, not all at once, so I guess someone who only needs 1 year to complete a course will be ok from the first year, but any longer will need to wait. I assume this applies to people eligilble for the whole 3 years i.e. they won’t get them in succession at the start.
     • alwyn 3.1.1

       2 February 2016 at 2:33 pm

       The problem with the Labour scheme as it stands can be summed up with the words Weka has to use.
       I would have to do the same thing, as would anyone else outside the Labour inner sanctum.

       Look at what she has had to say. “From what I can tell”. “at this stage”. “address this later”. “GR on his FB page”. “so I guess”. “I assume this”.

       Note I am not complaining about the way Weka has had to describe it. I am complaining about the lack of any real details.

       The only official description I can find is from the Labour Party site. This is the whole of it.
       https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/nzlabour/pages/3958/attachments/original/1454188801/Working_Futures_Plan_factsheet.pdf?1454188801
4. Smilin 4

   2 February 2016 at 5:56 pm

   Fully implemented by 2025: trouble is the damage has had 7 yrs free reign, so far, and thats the cost to nearly a generation of young people, having the overbearing social stigma of a BS education policy from Natcorp severely down grading their social status so that these Keyites can advertise their nothingness
   At least when labour get in it will check the damage and the true cost will emerge and be able to go ahead quicker knowing the teachers and lecturers wont have their pay fucked up for a four year stretch and they might not have to wonder if they have a job because of their politics or opposition to the govt and its absurd reorganisation and down grading of the govt research facilities within the Universities
   Also selling those facilities to some TPPA CORPORATE PLUNDERER .
5. Iron Sky 5

   2 February 2016 at 9:39 pm

   Can there be free education? whats the evidence:

   1. Shai Reshef: An ultra-low-cost college degree: The world’s first non-profit, tuition-free, accredited, online, American university (you still have to pay for exams, but still thats a move in the right direction)

   https://www.ted.com/talks/shai_reshef_a_tuition_free_college_degree?language=en

   2. In Germany tuition fees have been abolished, while England has the most expensive fees in Europe, with every indication that they are likely to be allowed to nudge even higher.
   http://www.bbc.com/news/education-34132664

   Didn’t even really try to search more than the above or count the thousands of free courses on line (https://www.mooc-list.com). The most precious of which are the ones teaching logic………………………….

   To quote Bob Dylan:

   Come gather ’round people
   Wherever you roam
   And admit that the waters
   Around you have grown
   And accept it that soon
   You’ll be drenched to the bone
   If your time to you
   Is worth savin’
   Then you better start swimmin’
   Or you’ll sink like a stone
   For the times they are a-changin’

   Come writers and critics
   Who prophesize with your pen
   And keep your eyes wide
   The chance won’t come again
   And don’t speak too soon
   For the wheel’s still in spin
   And there’s no tellin’ who
   That it’s namin’
   For the loser now
   Will be later to win
   For the times they are a-changin’

   Come senators, congressmen
   Please heed the call
   Don’t stand in the doorway
   Don’t block up the hall
   For he that gets hurt
   Will be he who has stalled
   There’s a battle outside ragin’
   It’ll soon shake your windows
   And rattle your walls
   For the times they are a-changin’

   Come mothers and fathers
   Throughout the land
   And don’t criticize
   What you can’t understand
   Your sons and your daughters
   Are beyond your command
   Your old road is rapidly agin’
   Please get out of the new one
   If you can’t lend your hand
   For the times they are a-changin’
6. Chooky 6

   2 February 2016 at 10:11 pm

   Higher Education Crisis in Neoliberal United States

   …Capitalist Neoliberals eat the young and consume them with debt

   (this is NOT a model New Zealand should follow …but which Labour has followed in the past and Nactional embraces )

   In USA:

   * 7 million students default on college loans

   * $1.2 trillion in student debt

   https://www.rt.com/shows/big-picture/330682-zika-virus-student-debt/

   …and a brief history of student debt in New Zealand

   http://craccum.ausa.auckland.ac.nz/features/a-brief-history-of-student-debt

   http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/02/01/labours-three-free-years-of-tertiary-education-a-critical-appraisal/
7. Hugh Wilkinson 7

   4 February 2016 at 9:39 am

   Gareth,

   When will the myth that my generation of students received free tertiary education? Yes it is true we did not pay course related costs. However that true statement suffers from what I call the ‘curse of the true statement’. The curse is that one true statement often does not tell the ‘whole truth and nothing but the truth’. A comparison of the cost of student life in my generation and today gives a much more complete picture.

   Firstly we did not receive the student living allowance nor any course related costs. When completing my BA degree in 2005/06, the time interest free loans were being introduced, I calculated that cost of a years BA courses was very similar to 40 weeks student living allowance. On that basis alone current students are no worse or better off than we were.

   Because of the economic times in the 60’s and 70’s the most we could expect from our parents, in my case parent, was free board. All other living costs we had to earn ourselves. Usually this came from lower paid manual labour. Wool store barrow boys, nassella tussock grubbing, hospital cleaning and portering etc. Most of us did not have our own cars, brand clothing or holidays, especially overseas ones.

   As for the policy announced by Labour there is far too little (pun acknowledged) detail to tell whether it is going to be a workable policy in the interest of all New Zealanders. We are told there will be announcements coming and I wonder will these be quickly developed responses to questions raised by the public or part of a well developed encompassing strategy of a practical and economically feasible free education policy.

   Back in 2011 I developed a draft working paper for such a universal free education system that gives potential solutions for the many practical implementation questions currently being asked of the Labour announced policy. I forwarded this plan to the Government and was thanked for my efforts.
8. Peter Lewis 8

   5 February 2016 at 11:41 pm

   There is no such thing as ‘free’.

   The cost must be paid by someone, so this policy is actually ‘100% subsidized’.

   In this case, that someone is the taxpayer.

   The policy may well have merit, and therefore should be considered, but don’t try and cloud the issue with the emotional statement that it is ‘free’.

Links to post

1. A tale of two States of the Nation speeches « The Standard: posted on 2 February 2016 at 9:54 am
2. Editorials question education policy | Your NZ: posted on 3 February 2016 at 7:37 am

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