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Reeferendum madness

Written By: - Date published: 7:39 am, May 8th, 2019 - 121 comments
Categories: crime, drugs, national, paula bennett, Politics, same old national, Simon Bridges - Tags:

National thought it was onto a winner when it released a cabinet paper a couple of days ago about the cannabis referendum.  Instead of being the party of leaks it was able to claim that the Government also had a leak problem although the actual extent of the problem may not have been high.

And it thought that it could embarrass the Government by showing that the Government was not serious about the referendum because it did not support the once the referendum passes then the law that Parliament had already passed comes into force option in the cabinet paper.

Instead the Government has gone with option 3, that is the referendum will include a non-binding question accompanied by draft legislation.  But as confirmed by Jacinda Ardern in Parliament yesterday, the three Government parties have confirmed their agreement to respect the decision of the referendum and to vote in favour of the result.

There is a precedent for option 4, that is Parliament passes the law but it is conditional on an affirmative referendum vote.  This was the original MMP legislation.  But this was heavy duty electoral reform which Parliaments muck around with at their peril.  By way of contrast drug law has always been subject to political whim and there is no sign that this is going to change.

Andrew Geddis sums up the situation in this passage:

… Chloe Swarbrick’s admission there was “no consensus” on adopting this “legislate, then let the people endorse” approach indicates that one of the governing parties was loathe to publicly vote for a bill to permit cannabis legalisation in advance of any referendum. We needn’t speculate for too long on which party that might be, because I think it will have the words “New” “Zealand” and “First” in it.

Which places us in a (to my mind) less-than-ideal place. Having said that, let’s not overly catastrophise the issue, shall we?

Any wailing and gnashing of teeth that the announced process means the referendum result now will be “non-binding” seems entirely misplaced to me. There simply is no such thing as a truly “binding” referendum in our system of parliamentary supremacy, because any parliament may undo what a previous parliament has decided.

Even if the current parliament were to enact legislation to legalise cannabis, and even if this were to be approved of by voters at a referendum, the next parliament is entirely free as a legal matter to retain or repeal it. Just as the next parliament is entirely free as a legal matter to enact or ignore any bill that the public say they want to see become the law.

Any difference in the two situations is then politico-moral in nature, not legal.

If the referendum passes then what will National do?

They spent all day avoiding the question.  And no doubt they will be polling furiously to see if conservative voters otherwise supportive of Jacinda and Labour or even Winston and NZ First will switch because of the proposed reforms.

There is a cross party group in Parliament working which National has refused to engage in.  And yesterday the reason was declared.  Basically it involved Paula Bennett being bitchy.

From Radio New Zealand:

Mrs Bennett was asked whether she would participate, as National had refused to be part of the group that had been operating up until now.

The problem had been, she said, was the group was run by “Chloe [Swarbrick] and her mates”.

“I just don’t see how, with all respect, a junior member of Parliament that is not a part of government is the spokesperson on drug reform which could change the social fabric of this country.

“So if they’re serious about a cross-party, put a Cabinet minister in there and I will happily sit with them and any other Member of Parliament.”

And Simon Bridges started to talk about cannabis infused gummy bears.  Which brought on this example of interweb brilliance.

He was kicked out of Parliament yesterday essentially for being an idiot.  Not one National MP followed him.  It must be really lonely being leader of the opposition right now.

And the MPs have been asked the compulsory “have you ever smoked cannabis question” and the responses have gone from a traditional “no way no how” to “yes I tried it once or twice but I did not like it”.  Speaking as someone who grew up in South Auckland, went to University in the 1980s and then moved to West Auckland I am intrigued that they have lived such sheltered lives.

The topic is going to become intensely political and will have more than a minor effect on the next election in that it is expected to boost turnout. But do not expect a reasoned respectful discussion about what is best.

121 comments on “Reeferendum madness”

  1. Chris T 1

    "“I just don’t see how, with all respect, a junior member of Parliament that is not a part of government is the spokesperson on drug reform which could change the social fabric of this country."

     

    She has a point tbf

    • Rapunzel 1.1

      Does she? What was Ms Bennett doing at a similar age? Being a solo mother living off the tax payer, I suppose in some ways that defeats my argument but the young person is there and is part of the whole.

      I have issue that M Barry of all people is allowed to meddle with submissions about political interference in NZ especially as she is reported to have "religiously" ignored (went off and got coffee) while submissions opposed to her personal position were being made in the euthanasia submission process.

      The "young" person is not the final word on the conclusions just part of the process and that looking to the future is how it should be.

      "He referred questions to Barry, saying he had been told by the clerk that Barry had made the scheduling decision.
      Meanwhile, Barry said it was the responsibility of the clerk to schedule submitters and manage meeting times."
      "But the message from the clerk to the (currently recused) chair, Huo, seemed to contradict Barry’s statement. The text said the hearing had been postponed to the next sitting block by Barry."

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/05/08/573531/foreign-interference-inquiry-shambles-shows-issue-not-a-priority

      • Gorgeousness 1.1.1

        Well said, Rapunzel.  Bennett was a 'bludger' by her own definition.  National's 'wimmin' are not too much different from their 'menfolk' – myopic, self serving and ignorant.

    • WeTheBleeple 1.2

      Paula would have been outclassed at every step. 

      Paula is ambitious and devious. She'll avoid Chloe as long as is possible as Chloe would demolish her BS.

       

      • marty mars 1.2.1

        paula is very afraid of the youth – she knows they see her bullshit, her anger, and they know it for what it is – bluster to hide a terrified idiot.

    • I think her point is that there's no way in hell she's going to put herself in a situation where the press gallery delights in showing a "junior Member of Parliament" running rings around her and making her look stupid. 

      • woodart 1.3.1

        bennett is doing a good job by herself looking foolish . she is looking more and more like christine rankin . as the old saying go's "act your age, not your shoe size" spray on tans arent a good look …

    • Robert Guyton 1.4

      That's right, Chris; some old tusker should be fronting the cannabis issue.

    • Blazer 1.5

      just a word with new Minister in charge of climate change -Paula Bennett…'what do you know about climate change'?

      Bennett…'nothing'!

    • Stuart Munro. 1.6

      It is common, in organized hierarchies, for bolder steps to come from younger members, they have more to gain and less to lose. NZ used to lead the world on social issues of this kind, but we've fallen behind, held back by the halt and the lame (the Gnats and Treasury respectively). 

      Labour lack the intestinal fortitude for a CGT, so of course they'll leave the legalization issue in (to them) disposable hands. Paula has nothing to say on the matter, or she would have said it. The Gnats are waiting to see which way the public will jump every bit as spinelessly as the coalition.

      • solkta 1.6.1

        Labour have always been divided on this issue and don't have a policy. The Greens have always had a policy to change the law. Chloe is the spokesperson for it. The referendum was part of the Green-Labour agreement. So it is Chloe who is driving the thing. 

    • Siobhan 1.7

      tbf…most things that have changed the social fabric of NZ society haven't been lead by members of Parliament or members of the Government..so I'm not entirely sure what Bennetts point is really.

      Kate Sheppard, Dame Whina Cooper, Samuel Parnell,  S. P. Andrews, Don McMorland and Alan Ivory, Dr Frederick King…

    • michelle 1.8

      MMP chris the same as epsom voting for on person who had so much power with very little votes and got in his charter schools policy 

  2. vto 2

    National don't know what to do because they are conservatives and cannot see the future. They are incapable of leading and will not do anything until they see what the polls say.

    As always, the National Party will end up where the hippies were long ago, and where most of the community is already.

    Conservatives. They have such limited use.

    • Robert Guyton 2.1

       "the National Party will end up where the hippies were long ago"

      That's very encouraging!

    • woodart 2.2

      nailed it vto. conservatives are never leaders, only followers…..

  3. vto 3

    Did I see that initial polls had support for legalisation at 70-80%?

    • Dennis Frank 3.1

      I doubt it.  The current Newshub poll has support for personal use at 65%.  Dunno if their sample is sufficient, but if so the public mood in favour of progress is firming.

      In January, the Herald reported that "60 per cent of New Zealanders would vote to legalise cannabis for personal use in a referendum…  24 per cent would vote "no", and 16 per cent had no opinion."  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12187654

  4. vto 4

    There needs to be a second referendum question running alongside the cannabis one to reduce the most real drug damage in New Zealand, as follows;

    "Should alcohol be criminalised in NZ?"

     

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 4.1

      because prohibition has obviously worked before with alcohol as it's working now with cannabis. 

       

      Idiot. 

    • So, cannabis needs to be decriminalised because criminalising recreational drug use promotes organised crime and exposes users to greater health risks, but alcohol should be criminalised because criminalisation would reduce harm from drugs?  You seem very, very confused….

      • Robert Guyton 4.2.1

        I think vto's question is designed to make people think obliquely. Vto is not an "idiot". Reflecting on alcohol's status would likely bring cannabis' present status into better focus.

        • Rapunzel 4.2.1.1

          Despite being an entire "novice" in regard to this the status and effects of alcohol have influenced my opinion, just because the use of that is normalised does not reduce the outcomes if it. I can't see one of my family/friends for who drinking is a fairly regular thing in their enjoyment of some events standing by an seeing that made illegal in any more ways than it is and I also can't imagine any more than might use cannabis at times all of a sudden taking it up.

          My concerns were particularly in regards to employment but people who drink on weekends etc manage to meet those obligations as I imagine do those who use cannabis. 

          As far as it goes for the damaging ends of either I can't see any if much difference. Try criminalising the use of alcohol entirely and see what would happen.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 4.2.1.2

          Prohibition doesn't work. Simple. there is no oblique thinking required.

          if it's harmful, legislate for controls. like minimum age purchasing. if it's not harmful, there is no need for controls.

          Making criminals out of craft beer drinkers and weed smokers is stupid. it puts otherwise law abiding citizens in harms way.

          Prohibition of alcohol led to an increase in ABV being consumed. the law didn't differentiate between types of alcohol as it doesn't between types of marijuana. 

          So calling for a parallel referendum on prohibition on alcohol is as stupid as not making it binding for cannabis. And i don't even smoke the stuff.

        • marty mars 4.2.1.3

          "Vto is not an "idiot". "

          lol bold statements require evidence please

          we need less restrictions not more imo

        • vto 4.2.1.4

          Yes that's right Robert, it was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion to highlight the hypocritical position of alcohol relative to cannabis. And its very real danger to society.

          Apologies to shrewsbury and others who I seem to have led to think I was being serious.

          Alcohol is deadly dangerous. Cannabis is piss-weak in comparison.

          • Psycho Milt 4.2.1.4.1

            Apologiies for not picking that up.  Yes, alcohol's coming in very handy in my comments to Kiwiblog readers on this subject – most of the war-on-drugs enthusiasts' comments could be ridiculed just by replacing the word 'marijuana' with 'alcohol' in them.  The cognitive dissonance is mind-boggling.

          • woodart 4.2.1.4.2

            its sad , vto, that you have to explain your leg-pulling. far too many on here are all too ready to be outraged. it seems to be the default position for some.

  5. Robert Guyton 5

    Reeferedum thoughts

    by Andrew Geddis

    "The Government's proposed model for the forthcoming referendum on marijuana legalisation isn't ideal. But the difference between it and the ideal really is pretty minimal."

  6. Dennis Frank 6

    The coalition is using both/and logic:  promoting a binding referendum that isn't binding.  Will it work?  Surprising perhaps, but I suspect it will.  They are calling it binding on the basis that the three parties in government have agreed to framing the referendum on the basis of three principles (freedom to use, grow & buy cannabis in a regulated market), and agreed to legislate the draft bill (yet to be written) into law if the public gives it the mandate.

    Barry Soper:  "The Justice Ministry's told the Beehive that for it to be binding there has to be referendum legislation that sets out the law that'll be automatically enacted in the event of a 'yes' vote.  And Parliament's clerk, the oracle of the process, says for a referendum to be binding legislation needs to be passed through the House with a section stipulating when the law comes into force after the vote's been taken.  The Government argues all parties have to sign up to the legislation because it's not possible to bind a future Parliament considering if there's a change of Government, all bets are off."  https://www.nzherald.co.nz//nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12228781&ref=clavis

    So that's why the legalistic view that the referendum will not be binding is technically correct.  If the coalition is defeated at the next election and National forms the next government, it will not be bound by the referendum outcome.

    Simon Collins reports "58 per cent supported decriminalising cannabis and 35 per cent opposed it" in a "UMR survey of 1000 New Zealanders" six months ago.  Hosking's attempt to stem the tide of public opinion seems Don Quixoteish. 

    There's also evidence that the divide between perception and reality is afflicting conservatives severely:  "Two-thirds (63 per cent) of those who supported decriminalisation correctly believed that that was the majority view.  But only 35 per cent of those who opposed decriminalisation believed they were in the minority. Another third incorrectly thought they were in the majority and a third were unsure."  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12228759

    • solkta 6.1

      basis of three principles (freedom to use, grow & buy cannabis in a regulated market),

      No, the announcement said there would be provisions for limited home growing. I was surprised at this and it shows a win for the Greens.

      If the coalition is defeated at the next election and National forms the next government, it will not be bound by the referendum outcome.

      National would not be bound by it anyway. In our system parliament is supreme so they could just repeal it on day one.

      • SPC 6.1.1

        I would have thought freedom to grow cannabis covered growing for personal use as well as growing for legal supply to others. 

        • solkta 6.1.1.1

          I'm not sure what you mean. Under whatever model a license will be required to grow commercially, so very limited freedom there. Growing for personal use is a separate issue.

          • SPC 6.1.1.1.1

            The three principles were freedom to use, freedom to grow (not just with a license) and freedom to buy in a regulated market. 

            • solkta 6.1.1.1.1.1

              It doesn't read that way to me.

               

              • SPC

                If policy is in accord with those three principles, and includes growing for personal use, that is how it was supposed to be understood.

    • SPC 6.2

      Tactics used to stop the CGT are already being used in opposition. Hosking lite on the one hand and the premium version from John Roughan the former editorial writer – trying out divide and conquer, posing the original camapigners for drug reform as libertarians and the lot pushing this legislative change as nanny state controlled supply authoritarians. 

      I did not read the full article of course, but the approach was likely designed to get those opposed to state regulation and control to oppose it and those opposed to people being able to grow their own also opposing it (the methodology which blocked the referendum on a republic in Oz).

  7. millsy 7

    National really are a bunch of prudes.

    They will get more prudish when the Asian and South African evangalicals and the incel Peterson fanboys come up through the ranks.

     

    Their vision for NZ is a puritanical hell hole, where anything fun is outlawed.

    • woodart 7.1

      Ive always been fascinated at the crossover point with conservatives ,where prudishness meets personal freedoms. very uncomfortable bedfellows .

      • Shadrach 7.1.1

        Sound objections to decriminalising marijuana for recreational use can be expressed without any recourse to moral arguments.

        And even for those of us with libertarian leanings, personal freedoms are not without limits.

        Conservatism actually coexists far more comfortably with personal liberty than leftist ideology.

        • woodart 7.1.1.1

          is that because conservative principles are always saleable, er, negotiable? …SEAT FOR SALE $100,000,  cash and carry, see natforsale.org

          • Shadrach 7.1.1.1.1

            All principles are for sale – in the hands of politicians.  Progressives sell out just as quickly as conservatives.   I would hope we could have a discussion about principles in the hands of ethical men and women.

        • millsy 7.1.1.2

          Whatever.

          As LGBT people in Poland if they have "personal freedom", given they get harrassed and beaten every day.

          • Shadrach 7.1.1.2.1

            Strange that you use Poland as an example.  In Poland LGBT people have protection under the law.  That is liberty.  Unlike many Islamic countries where LGBT people actually have their personal liberty restricted under the law.

    • Cinny 7.2

      The nat's would outlaw everything except their drug of choice, which they made sure was available at the supermarket.

       

  8. Shadrach 8

    Any referendum will be based on legislation not assembled by a national led government, so they have no obligation to commit to being bound by the results. 

    • Robert Guyton 8.1

      They'd give it the flick. If their polling showed advantage.

      • Shadrach 8.1.1

        Ah a cynic.  But yes I am too.  Politicians are all self serving.  It's DNA.

        • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1

          1st and 2nd sentence, reasonable statements, 3rd and 4th, just nonsense.

        • gsays 8.1.1.2

          " Politicians are all self serving.  It's DNA. "

          Sue Bradford, Nandor Tanzcos, Laila Harre all make a mockery of your statement.

          Just a coincidence they are of a left persuasion.

          • Shadrach 8.1.1.2.1

            Nah, they are all just as bad.  

            • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.2.1.1

              No, they are not at all as you portray them, as most here will know. What's the purpose of your sowing the seeds of doubt and discontent here, Shadrach? You might think you are landing blows, but really, readers here are thinking, he blows!

              • Shadrach

                There is a delusion abroad that left wing politicians somehow hold to a higher ethical standard than those from the right.  Apart from the obvious historical evidence to the contrary, my experience of politicians generally is that they have a personal ideological agenda that taints their objectivity.  These are not 'seeds of doubt and discontent'; they are presenting a realistic view of those who seek to lead, and one reason why I support less government than more.

                • In Vino

                  Shadrach, that is convenient for you if nothing else. It shelters you from having to question your own values, and enables you to dismiss anything any left-wing politician says without you having to even think about it.

                  I call it cowardice.

                  • Shadrach

                    What makes you assume I dismiss anything any left wing politician says?  In fact what makes you think I dismiss anything any politician says?

                    • In Vino

                      Your facile comment at 8.1.1

                    • Shadrach

                      I said they were self serving. Why would you assume from that I dismiss anything they say?

                    • In Vino

                      Because you have said that they are all self-serving.  That means they cannot be trusted.

                      But now anything they say may suddenly be golden wisdom? 

                      Give us a break..  You are prevaricating.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Because you have said that they are all self-serving.  That means they cannot be trusted."

                      I know many people I don't trust, yet I don't dismiss everything they say.  You appear to be quite naive.

                    • In Vino

                      More prevarication. at 8.1.1.2.1 you write, "No, they are all just as bad."

                      Now you pretend to value parts of what they say.

                      Please try to be less bombastic and limit the negativity of your original statements if you are going to retract later on when taken to task.

                    • Shadrach

                      It is entirely possible for me to take notice of some things said by people I consider 'untrustworthy'.  I might not agree with everything or even anything they say, but that doesn't mean I dismiss it without consideration.

                      This really is a simple concept.

                    • McFlock

                      Trust has nothing to do with agreement, and everything to do with reliability.

                      If someone is completely untrustworthy, then what they say has a 50:50 chance of being true. Their claims of fact are primarily worthless. There might be a secondary value in them tipping their hand to their motives or plans, but even that can't be relied on. 

                    • Shadrach

                      "Trust has nothing to do with agreement, and everything to do with reliability."

                      "If someone is completely untrustworthy, then what they say has a 50:50 chance of being true. "

                      So it is reasonable for me to not dismiss everything said by someone I do not trust. In Vino seems to be struggling to understand this.

                    • McFlock

                      So probability ain't your strong point, is it.

                      If they were completely reliable, 100% accurate, you can rely on their claims. "I support Bridges" – Bridges has the support of that person.

                      If they were reliably incorrect, you can be sure what they say is false – which can also be a useful thing to observe. "I support Bridges" – now you know they do not support Bridges.

                      But 50:50? It's useless.

                    • Shadrach

                      I don't believe trust is inextricably linked to reliability at all.  It is possible to trust an entirely unreliable person, because trust can be a subjective assessment. But I ran with your (imperfect) material.

                      You said "If someone is completely untrustworthy, then what they say has a 50:50 chance of being true. "

                      So, even if I don’t trust a person, why would I dismiss everything they say?

                    • McFlock

                      Because what they say gives you no additional information. It might be true, it might not.

                      Let's say you're working with the sort of person who says whatever they think you want to hear. You have a checklist of tasks to get through together. They say all the tasks have been done. Because you can't trust them, you have to check each and every task yourself, even though there's a 50:50 chance everything has in fact been done.

                      Now, if you were working with someone you could trust to only lie (0:100, because they hate you and just want to piss you around at work, but are too stupid to do it properly), if they said "everything has been done" you knew at least one item had not been done.

                      If you worked with someone you could trust to tell the truth all the time (100:0), if they said everything was done, everything was done.

                      But 50:50 offers no information whatsoever. So it can be discarded with ease.

                    • Shadrach

                      “Because what they say gives you no additional information. It might be true, it might not.”

                      So it is reasonable to listen to them, on the basis that what they say may be true. Or may have value, depending on the context of what is being considered.

                    • McFlock

                      So you ask your colleague "has the power been turned off so I can hook up this expensive piece of hardware without frying it?"

                      Your colleague answers "yes".

                      Now, that might be true, but has an even chance of being false and the hardware will be fried.

                      So how does their answer provide you any useful information whatsoever? You still need to check the power yourself. It would be quicker to not ask them anything in the first place, and just do it yourself from the start.

                       

                    • Shadrach

                      "So how does their answer provide you any useful information whatsoever?"

                      It doesn't, necessarily.  But that doesn't mean I then take no notice of anything else that person says in the future about any subject.  An illustration…if Hitler were alive today I would not trust him.  But here's an interesting thing…Hitler was a strong opponent of smoking.  In fact his government banned smoking from many public spaces, and funded research on the effects of smoking on health.  So do I dismiss Hitler's views on smoking just because I don't trust him?

                    • McFlock

                      Yes.

                      His views on smoking are irrelevant to whether they match reality. It's the other sources, the ones that demonstrate whether he was correct or incorrect, that you pay attention to and from which you should draw your conclusions. You'll probably find he was antismoking because he saw a picture of Marx with a pipe. Any relation to reality is purely coincidental.

                      If someone is untrustworthy, then their claims are worthless until they talk about some subject area in which they have earned some level of trust.

                       

                    • Shadrach

                      "You'll probably find he was antismoking because he saw a picture of Marx with a pipe. Any relation to reality is purely coincidental."

                      So?  That doesn't mean we should dismiss his opinion, because whatever it's motivation, history showed him to be correct!

                      "If someone is untrustworthy, then their claims are worthless until they talk about some subject area in which they have earned some level of trust."

                      Untrustworthy?  Perhaps.  False?  Not necessarily.  Hitler proved that.

                    • McFlock

                      Your "not necessarily" and your "perhaps" are the point. Without even a "probably" or "probably not", his input on the matter is pointless.

                      The London sewers ended the cholera epidemics, even though they were designed to remove the smell that at that time was believed to be the cause of disease (hence "malaria"). Massive public works created an infrastructure that just happened to be the solution to the problem. That doesn't mean the "bad air" hypothesis should be considered as a root cause of every disease someone gets. Pharmac should not spend millions of dollars providing extractor fans for everyone's bedrooms in an effort to contain the measles outbreak..

                    • Shadrach

                      "Your "not necessarily" and your "perhaps" are the point. Without even a "probably" or "probably not", his input on the matter is pointless."

                      To you, maybe.  Not to me.  I wouldn't trust him to run a country, but when it came to smoking, he was on the money, so on that his input was far from pointless.

                    • McFlock

                      Is my clothes iron off or on at the moment? I want to go to bed soon without the house burning down, and apparently it would be reasonable for me to listen to your perspective on the matter, because you might be on the money.  

                    • Shadrach

                      "Is my clothes iron off or on at the moment? "

                      How would I know?  But ask me about a business decision you need to make and you'll get an informed response.

                      Hitler couldn’t be trusted to run a country, but he was right about smoking. And a few other things, BTW.

                    • McFlock

                      So to know if my iron is on, your contribution is worthless unless I know how you know.

                      But Hitler lucked out and was antismoking, so we should listen to his perspective on that even though we don't know how he came to that conclusion.

                      You're just a touch inconsistent there.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You're just a touch inconsistent there."

                      Not at all.  My argument is we should not dismiss everything someone says simply because we don't trust them.  Hitler was right about smoking.  Luck or otherwise is irrelevant (and that's debatable), he was right. And that is all that is required to have made listening to him on that one point alone worthwhile.

                    • McFlock

                      Hitler was right about smoking.  Luck or otherwise is irrelevant (and that's debatable), he was right. And that is all that is required to have made listening to him on that one point alone worthwhile.

                      And yet you regarded the question about whether the iron was switched on as silly, even though there was a 50:50 chance you'd be correct and therefore listening to you on that one point would have been worthwhile.

                      Your position relies on us knowing before the fact whether or not the untrustworthy person is actually making a true claim in this instance. Which means we have to verify it through other means. Which we would have to do anyway, without the untrustworthy person's input. So their claims do not add any information to our decision-making framework or affect our behaviour in relation to the issue at hand.

                      So why would you take any notice of them?

                       

                       

                       

                    • Shadrach

                      "And yet you regarded the question about whether the iron was switched on as silly, even though there was a 50:50 chance you'd be correct and therefore listening to you on that one point would have been worthwhile."

                      I didn't at all say it was silly.  I asked you 'how would I know', meaning it would be a strange thing for you to ask me.

                      “Your position relies on us knowing before the fact whether or not the untrustworthy person is actually making a true claim in this instance."

                      This is where you are so very wrong. How do I know whether their claim is true without listening to them? And even after listening to them, I might need to go away and do more research.

                      The citizens of germany had no idea whether Hitler was correct about smoking – that didn't mean they should just ignore him on that issue simply because they might have not trusted him to run their country.

                      Your approach seems to be that someone you do not trust has absolutely nothing of value to say. I reject that absolutely.

                    • McFlock

                      Why would it be a strange thing for me to ask? There's an even chance you'd be correct, and thus have a useful perspective on the matter..

                       

                       How do I know whether their claim is true without listening to them? And even after listening to them, I might need to go away and do more research.

                      No, after listening to them you would still need to go and do the research. Whereas if you just did the research, you'd have the information you want more quickly than if you stopped to listen to them.

                      The citizens of germany had no idea whether Hitler was correct about smoking – that didn't mean they should just ignore him on that issue simply because they might have not trusted him to run their country.

                      Yeah, it did. A stuck clock is correct twice a day, that doesn't mean that you should consult it to find out what time it is. Because even if it's correct, you'd still need a reliable clock to tell you the stuck clock works.

                       

                    • Shadrach

                      “Why would it be a strange thing for me to ask?”

                      Because I don’t use your clothes iron.  And you know I don’t.

                      “No, after listening to them you would still need to go and do the research. Whereas if you just did the research, you'd have the information you want more quickly than if you stopped to listen to them.”

                      But what if their perspective was knew to me?  There are many people in Germany who would be unlikely to have heard an anti-smoking perspective if not for Hitler.

                      “Yeah, it did. A stuck clock is correct twice a day, that doesn't mean that you should consult it to find out what time it is. Because even if it's correct, you'd still need a reliable clock to tell you the stuck clock works.”

                      That’s a clock.  You know it will be correct at least twice a day, but if it isn’t working you know it will be wrong at all other times.  A human is not a clock.  A human could be correct many times, even if they can’t be trusted.  Hitler was right about a number of things, but I wouldn’t trust him to run a country.

                    • McFlock

                      I don't know for sure what you know or how you know it. I just know that you might very well be correct if you gave an answer to the question "is my iron on?"

                      Similarly, you don't know what basis Hitler had for being anti-smoking. Maybe some Germans hadn't heard his perspectives on anti-semitism, either. So they hear he's antismoking and antisemitic. According to you, one of those is an observation that gives them some additional knowledge or benefit. The other is wrong. But they have no idea which one is wrong, just that hitler said it. So they need to look for unbiased sources, of which hitler is not one because he is untrustworthy.

                      They would do better to just generate a list of random items or people, and randomly assign "pro" or "anti" to each one. Then go and check it out themselves, rather than asking hitler.

                      New perspectives aren't of value if they are just a list of crap that has a 50:50 chance of being useful. But if you know the source is trustworthy, they might be worth listening to. Some people are more reliable than a stopped clock, others are as reliable as an unplugged digital clock. Either way, you never know whether an unreliable person or and unreliable clock is correct unless you check with a third party. So why bother with the intermediary.

                    • Shadrach

                      “I don't know for sure what you know or how you know it.”

                      Yes, you do.  Because you know I don’t live in your house.  You know I haven’t been in your house.  You have no reason to even pose the question to me.

                      “Similarly, you don't know what basis Hitler had for being anti-smoking.”

                      Yes, we do.  It was initially because he considered it a waste of money. 

                      “According to you, one of those is an observation that gives them some additional knowledge or benefit.”

                      No, Hitler’s anti-smoking campaign may have stimulated some to do more research about something they previously hadn’t considered. Which is an illustration of why it is silly to dismiss everything someone says without due consideration simply because you don’t trust them.

                      “New perspectives aren't of value if they are just a list of crap that has a 50:50 chance of being useful.”

                      Which you will never be able to establish if you refuse to even listen to someone you don’t trust.

                      “So why bother with the intermediary.”

                      Because the first you might hear of the matter is via the intermediary. Like some German citizens in the 1930’s.

                    • McFlock

                      I don't know whether you've hacked my web security cam to see my iron, nor do I know whether hitler's idea of a waste of money is at all valid.

                      So now you're adding supporting information that is based on the source for the primary information. It's circular: X perspective on Y is valid because Z (according to X). Which is infinitely recursive: before I know X perspective on Y is true, I need to know X perspective on Z is true, but I only have X's reasoning for that, so now I need to know whether X's reasoning for Z is useful before I know their reas ning for their perspective on Y is useful.

                      Sooner or later, I need to find out if Y is good or bad by referring to someone more reliable than X.

                      So you might as well ignore X and go straight to that someone else.

                    • Shadrach

                      "…nor do I know whether hitler's idea of a waste of money is at all valid."

                      But having heard it, you can now investigate it.  If you hadn't listened, you wouldn't have a clue.

                      "So now you're adding supporting information that is based on the source for the primary information."

                      No, you raised that when you talked about an intermediary.

                      "So you might as well ignore X and go straight to that someone else."

                      See – you just did it again.  You admitted above you didn't know whether Hitler's idea of a waste of money was valid or not, but now you do.  You can't go to 'that someone else' if you haven't listened to the idea in the first place.

                    • McFlock

                      You can't go to 'that someone else' if you haven't listened to the idea in the first place.

                      Which sounds reasonable until we consider that the argument applies to everything hitler was wrong about, too. And also applies to literally everything said by every nutbar on the planet. Was hitler the only guy who had an opinion on smoking or had an idea about what constitutes a waste of money? Hell no. Millions of other people also had opinions and ideas. He killed many of them, but before he did so we would be wise to consider their opinions.

                      So we're stuck in an infinite loop of considering ideas from everyone, and that gets in the way of actually coming to a decision. So we need to filter our sources of perspectives and opinions. Arguing with fools recreationally can be entertaining, but the supply of meaningful information is strictly limited. If I actually need to consider an issue in a timely manner, the list of participants I might seek out for a discussion drops dramatically.

                    • Shadrach

                      “Which sounds reasonable until we consider that the argument applies to everything hitler was wrong about, too.”
                      No, it sounds reasonable, full stop. Because my point is to not judge someone by all the stuff they say we don’t agree with, but to grant them the possibility they may say something worthwhile. Even just once.

                      So we’re stuck in an infinite loop of considering ideas from everyone…”
                      Everyone? No I never suggested that. I just dismissed the idea of rejecting everything someone says simply because you don’t trust them. It’s a very reasonable position.

                      “…and that gets in the way of actually coming to a decision.”
                      You aren’t listening. It cannot get in the way if we are being introduced to ideas for the first time. Actually on second thoughts you are listening, you’re just avoiding answering to that particular point.

                    • McFlock

                      The internet is full of people receiving new ideas for the first time without considering the validity of the source.

                      Doesn't seem to be going all that well – it seems that for every instance where that is a new and useful fact for the receiver, there are dozens who end up getting scalds while steaming their vagina, or who shoot up a classroom because they don't feel they get enough sex, or decide that even though they can afford and have access to the best healthcare in the world they'd better avoid vaccines like the plague.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Doesn't seem to be going all that well…"

                      …and then you contradict yourself…

                      "…it seems that for every instance where that is a new and useful fact for the receiver, there are dozens who end up getting scalds while steaming their vagina…"

                      So there are new and useful facts.  Therefore it is churlish to dismiss everything without at least some research.

                      Well done.

    • solkta 8.2

      No obligation like democracy or any of that. Yeh we know about Nact.

      • Shadrach 8.2.1

        They have no obligation because the referendum is based on legislation they have not drafted.  Simple.

        • joe90 8.2.1.1

          Were past referendums based on drafted legislation?

          • Shadrach 8.2.1.1.1

            Not sure. But under the current law, none are binding.

            • Andre 8.2.1.1.1.1

              According to the esteemed and learned Professor Geddis, the 1993 referendum for MMP was a thumbs up/thumbs down for already written legislation.

              That was what happened with the change of electoral system in 1993; the vote for MMP automatically brought the Electoral Act 1993 into force. It is what would have happened had a majority of us supported the Lockwood design for our national flag back in 2016. I still think it’s the best (in the sense of simplest, tidiest and most allowing of public deliberation) way to run a referendum on law change.

              Geddis agrees with you that there is no such thing as a binding referendum in current New Zealand law; Parliament can always do whatever the fuck it wants to, subject only to the constraint of getting a majority of MPs.

              Any wailing and gnashing of teeth that the announced process means the referendum result now will be “non-binding” seems entirely misplaced to me. There simply is no such thing as a truly “binding” referendum in our system of parliamentary supremacy, because any parliament may undo what a previous parliament has decided.

              • Shadrach

                Thanks Andre.  

                "…the vote for MMP automatically brought the Electoral Act 1993 into force."

                As I understand it, that's how the Greens wanted the cannabis referendum to work.

                • Andre

                  Yeah.

                  But I can't really blame Labour and WinstonFirst MPs for not wanting to vote on it beforehand. It's the kind of topic where staking out an actual position is only going to lose them votes, it won't ever actually gain them any.

                  • The Chairman

                    Rubbish.

                    People know that it would be a case of voting on a bill that would require majority voter support before it actually passed into law.

                    Their position has already largely been staked out.

                  • The Al1en

                    I don't see the issue. If stoners want to get weed legalised they'll have to go and vote yes in the referendum and then for labour or the greens for the election win.

                    Three ticks, that's all it will take.

                    • Andre

                      Minor technical quibble, that's all.

                      My snark was kinda more prompted by those like No Right Turn making out it was some kind of nefarious troughing scheme dreamed up by Lab/Grn troughers that needed to be punished by not voting for them. Or something.

                      http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-fix.html

                    • The Al1en

                      I hear you, though even if  it were part of a vote getting plan for 2020, which it still might by, so what? It's politics, not tiddlywinks, and even then it's a lot cheaper than buying votes by funding promises with tax dollars.

                      I would suspect a lot of the missing million dabble with pot, so you never know, maybe it might just work this time lol

                    • The Chairman

                      I don't see the issue.

                      Really?

                      Do you require me to lay it out?

                       

                    • The Al1en

                      Yeah, yeah, I know already – The greens did it and labour let them 🙄

              • The Chairman

                Here's the kicker

                Little makes the argument that because no current Parliament can bind a future Parliament the difference isn't really material – a new Government would always have the opportunity to ignore the referendum result if keen.

                But this ignores the reality of Parliamentary politics. It is very easy to not do something – to not go through the months-long process of passing a law on the recommendation of a referendum. It is much more work to actively repeal a bill already activated by a law change.

                 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112525322/explainer-the-cannabis-referendum-and-why-it-isnt-binding

  9. roy cartland 9

    I'd love to see Simon on the cones – might make him more articulate and coherent!

  10. Ken 10

    Obviously the Nats' views on cannabis law reform are 'no reform at all'.

    Why does the supposed party of "personal responsibility and keeping the government out of people's lives" feel the need to poke their noses into what grown consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own lounges and bedrooms?

  11. cleangreen 11

    Regarding cannabis – We need to worry about smoking green house chemicals now.

    See here where many of the (140) chemicals are climate changing components sadly. Alkanes and terpenes are 'climate changing green house gases' sadly.

    https://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Chemical-constituents-of-cannabis.pdf

    These are just a few of the known green house gases.

    These are just a few of known green house chemicals.

    Noncannabinoid-Type Constituents 1.2.1. Terpenoids The typical scent of Cannabis results from about 140 different terpenoids. Isoprene units (C5H8) form monoterpenoids (C10 skeleton), sesquiterpenoids (C15), diterpenoids (C20), and triterpenoids (C30; see Table 2). Terpenoids may be acyclic, monocyclic, or polycyclic hydrocarbons with substitution patterns including alcohols, ethers, aldehydes, ketones, and esters.

    • Ken 11.1

      Would it be better to vape and avoid combustion?

      Also, bear in mind that the plant soaked up CO2 when it was growing.

      • Robert Guyton 11.1.1

        "Also, bear in mind that the plant soaked up CO2 when it was growing."

        There's this phrase, de minimis

        • Ken 11.1.1.1

          I agree it's a trivial point, but vast fields of hemp would be a less trivial carbon sink.

          • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.1.1

            Grow'em but don't smoke'em?

            Sure, hemp as far as the eye can see would be something wonderful (I'd interplant, but then that's me). If we can then get those plants; their stalks at least, into the soil, we'd be getting somewhere good; carbon lying where it should lie; six inches deep 🙂

  12. cleangreen 12

    Robert & Ken, you are missing my point here,

    Vaping will allow the release of those VOC's also that are clearly known as "green house" chemicals, so we are actually increasing further emissions into the atmosphere of climatic changing green house chemicals.

    https://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Chemical-constituents-of-cannabis.pdf

    1.2.2. Hydrocarbons
    The 50 known hydrocarbons detected in Cannabis consist of n-alkanes ranging from C9 to C39, 2-methyl-, 3-methyl-, and some dimethyl alkanes (10,35). The
    major alkane present in an essential oil obtained by extraction and steam distillation was the n-C29 alkane nonacosane (55.8 and 10.7%, respectively). Other abundant alkanes were heptacosane, 2,6-dimethyltetradecane, pentacosane, hexacosane,
    and hentriacontane.

    I was not actually discussing the effects to the inhaling of the chemicals but the emissions into our atmosphere..

    • Robert Guyton 12.1

      I may have taken your words the wrong way, cleangreen. I meant that the emissions to the atmosphere from smoking/vaping cannabis was an issue de minimis.

    • Ken 12.2

      Not much though eh?

      How would all the weed smoking and vaping emissions compare to one decent bonfire?

      • Robert Guyton 12.2.1

        That's what I'm thinking, Ken, but we may be missing something…

  13. SPC 13

    As someone who proposed this sort of policy back in 1999 to the Health Select Committee, about time. 

    Still think Ecstasy or MDMA should be legal and thus in its proper form not some synthetic shit out of China called Molly.  Safer than alcohol and cannabis in its proper form. Classifying it as Class A alongside Meth is batshit stupid. 

    Invest in a roll out of mental health and drug rehab services as we do medical practices, with the money saved on drug crime (you'd have to have mental health issues to use Meth and certainly need the drug rehab once you do). 

    The one problem with decriminalisation/legalisation is possible overuse. With alcohol we have licensed venue responsibility and driver checks – but given there are already many workplaces with drug testing this is somewhat covered already. It maybe just a matter of updating license revoking for driving under the influence of more than alcohol.

    • Ken 13.1

      Very few of the illegal drugs, if pure and used in known dosages, are dangerous.

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    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    1 week ago
  • How plant-based meat is stretching New Zealand’s cultural and legal boundaries
    Samuel Becher, Victoria University of Wellington and Jessica C Lai, Victoria University of Wellington Earlier this year, the New Zealand-based pizza chain Hell Pizza offered a limited-edition “Burger Pizza”. Its customers weren’t told that the “meat” was plant-based. Some customers complained to the Commerce Commission, which enforces consumer law in ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Scientific integrity requires critical investigation – not blind acceptance
    Some people seem to want to close down any critical discussion of the current research into the relationship between water fluoride and child IQ. They appear to argue that claims made by researchers should not be open to critical review and that the claims be accepted without proper consideration ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The shameful reality
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. Meanwhile, Climate Action Tracker has the shameful reality: those targets are insufficient:While New Zealand is showing leadership by having passed the world’s second-ever Zero Carbon Act in November 2019, under ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • More secrecy
    The government introduced a Racing Industry Bill today. As an urban who horse racing as pointless-to-cruel, and gambling as a tax on stupidity and/or hope, this isn't normally a bill which would interest me in the slightest, beyond grumpiness at more government money for a dying industry. But there is ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Unlikely online bully, Liam Hehir
    Check. Check. One, two, three, four. Is this thing ON? Hello readers, I logged in last night (yeah, it’s been a while) to mark THE END of the landmark legal case, Jordan Williams v Colin Craig, which (gulp) reached The Supreme Court, in which New Zealand’s most-defamed man was suing the politician he ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    1 week ago
  • The Birth Of Israel: Wrong At The Right Time.
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    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Public Address Word of the Year 2019: Korero phase
    In an unreliable, strange and confusing world, Public Address is proud to present a measure of comfort and stability by annually asking everyone what words or phrases sum up the year that's been – and then giving some of them consumer goods as prizes for being clever or simply lucky.Well, ...
    1 week ago
  • Generalist to specialist
    Both my parents are pretty handy – and they seem to have the right tools for most jobs in the garage and they know how to fix practically anything. A similar story could be told about their generation’s experience in the workforce – being a generalist was not unusual and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • A “coincidence”
    When it was revealed that NZ First had tried to enrich itself from public office via the Provoncial Growth Fund, the Prime Minister assured us that everything was OK as Shane Jones, the Minister responsible for the fund, had recused himself. Except it seems that that recusal came very late ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Worse than I thought
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has reported back on the government's odious and tyrannical control orders bill. As expected, the fraudulent select committee process has made no significant changes (partly because they couldn't agree, but mostly because it was a stitch-up from the start, with no intention of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The cannabis bill and the referendum
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: The Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill: pretty good so far
    As you're probably aware, the draft bill outlining the proposed legal cannabis regime to be put to a referendum late next year was published yesterday, and has already attracted a flurry of comment. It's notable that a good deal of the comment is about proposals that aren't actually new.A minimum ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Alignment
    One of the big problems in New Zealand climate change policy is the government working at cross-purposes with itself. It wants to reduce fossil fuel use, but encourages oil and gas exploration. It wants to reduce transport emissions, but then builds enormous new roads. The problem could be avoided if ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How climate change will affect food production and security
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz According to the United Nations, food shortages are a threat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • More bad faith
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Banning foreign money from our elections
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Reforming the Education Acts
    The government introduced the Education and Training Bill to Parliament yesterday. Its a massive bill, which replaces both existing Education Acts, as well as various other bits of legislation (including some which are still proceeding through the House). I'll leave the serious analysis to teachers and people who actually know ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Bite-sized learning
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Not The Labour Party We Once Knew.”
    All Smiles Now: Claire Szabo is taking up her presidential role after serving as the CEO of Habitat For Humanity. Which is absolutely perfect! After KiwiBuild was so comprehensively mismanaged by Phil Twyford, the party has not only elected a new president from a thoroughly respectable not-for-profit, but one who ...
    1 week ago
  • Marxist versus liberal methodology on transgender ideology/identity politics
    While much of the NZ left has transitioned to postmodern and identity politics in relation to transgender ideology, there are some very good articles about that deploy Marxist methodology in relation to this subject.  The one below is from the British marxist group Counterfire and appeared on their site here ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Book review: The Farm by Joanne Ramos
    by Daphna Whitmore At Golden Oaks, a luxurious country retreat in the Hudson Valley, pregnant women have the best care money can buy. From the organic food, personalised exercise programmes, private yoga instruction and daily massages Golden Oaks looks like a country lodge for the upper class. Set some time ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Loosening the purse strings
    When Labour was running for election in 2017, it felt it needed to demonstrate "fiscal responsibility" and signed itself up to masochistic "budget responsibility rules". It was a fool's errand: the sorts of voters who demand fiscal responsibility are also the sorts of voters who believe that labour can never ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: How to get there
    Writing in Stuff, Joel MacManus looks at what we need to do to meet the Zero Carbon Act's targets. The core of it:1. Convert 85 per cent of vehicles on the road to electric. 2. Eliminate fossil fuels from all industrial heating up to 300 degrees Celsius. 3. Double our ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • anti-vaxxers in a measles epidemic: so many ways to be untruthful
    “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa over the past twenty-four hours. “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Is Youth Vaping a Problem in New Zealand?
    Professors Janet Hoek and Richard Edwards, Emeritus Professor Phil Gendall, Jude Ball, Dr Judith McCool, Anaru Waa, Dr Becky Freeman Recent media reports have presented conflicting evidence on youth vaping in NZ. While some NZ school principals report concerns about increasing vaping on school grounds and confiscating vapes, ASH Year ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • In pursuit of “Freedom and Democracy”: Forever Wars in “America’s backyard”.
    “America the Beautiful!”, staunch defender of democracy, freedom and… a whole lot of despotic tyrants that play nice with what is called “the Washington Consensus.” America is indeed capable of immense good, but like any Nation, and most assuredly any aspirant to the mantle of Empire, great, immense evil. All ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • November ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: The beginner’s guide to blogging I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whodunnit? Finding the mystery 1080 testing lab
    1080 is used to control pests in NZ. Its use is contested by a noisy few. A new report claims high levels of 1080 in rats washed up on a beach. Flora and Fauna of Aotearoa (F&F) won’t name the laboratory that did their testing. It has sparked a hunt ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 weeks ago
  • Authoritarian Friends, Democratic Enemies.
    What Kind Of Empire? The thing for Kiwis to decide is what kind of empire they want to belong to. The kind that, while offering its own citizens democratic rights, demands absolute obedience from its “friends”? Or, the kind that, while authoritarian at home, takes a relaxed attitude to the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Boris Johnson Goes Down
    It hasn't been a good week for the Conservatives, pollwise.  All major recent polls are showing their lead shrinking.Comparing each pollster's current (between 29/11 and 22/11) and previous most recent poll.Com Res - Conservative lead down 3 points.You Gov - Conservative lead down 1 point.Kantar - Conservative lead down 4 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Interesting
    Within quick succession, Countdown maths wizard and twitterer Rachel Riley, alleged comedian David Baddiel and prominent lawyer Andrew Julius have all expressed very similar opinions / ideas:
    These #3billboards are going round London today, organised by ex-Labour people, horrified by what their party has become. Their principles haven’t changed, they’re ...
    2 weeks ago

  • New Zealand medical specialists to provide further support to Samoa
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today announced further support for Samoa’s longer term needs as it continues to respond to a devastating measles epidemic. “Samoa’s health system has experienced massive strain in the wake of the measles epidemic. The volume of patients needing care during this outbreak, and the number of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    33 mins ago
  • Discounted electric-bikes offered to public sector workers
    Discounted electric bikes will be offered up to public sector staff across the country as part of the Government’s work to reduce transport emissions and support healthier transport options.  Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter officially launched the new initiative at Wellington Hospital today.  “The Government has negotiated bulk-purchase ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 hour ago
  • Australia and New Zealand confirm joint bid for FIFA Women’s World Cup
    The Australian and New Zealand Governments today launch an historic joint bid to bring the FIFA Women’s World Cup to the Southern Hemisphere for the first time. Australian Minister for Youth and Sport, Richard Colbeck and New Zealand Minister for Sport and Recreation Grant Robertson will announce the bold campaign, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Blackwater gold mine gets PGF boost
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) has approved a $15 million loan to help re-establish a gold mining operation at Blackwater Gold Mine, near Reefton, Rural Communities Minister and local MP Damien O’Connor announced at an event on the West Coast today. “This is great news for the Coast that could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Papakāinga model inspires whānau well-being
    Papakāinga model inspires whānau well-being A housing project by Kohupātiki whānau in Hastings is an outstanding example of a Māori-led housing initiative that can reduce financial pressure and reconnect whānau to their whakapapa says the Minister for Māori Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta.  Minister Mahuta officially opened the Aroha Te Rangi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Housing First to help Nelson Tasman homeless
    Nelson has today seen the launch of Housing First Nelson Tasman. Today’s launch marks the expansion of the Government’s homelessness programme, Housing First, to the top of the South Island. “Housing First is a proven programme that puts people who are experiencing homelessness and multiple, high and complex needs into ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Government takes bite out of loan sharks
    The days of vulnerable consumers falling victim to loan sharks, truck shops and other predatory lenders are numbered, following the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill passing its third reading tonight. “Too many Kiwis are being given loans that are unaffordable and unsuitable, trapping them in debt and leaving their families ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New Zealand safer as Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders Bill) becomes law
    A Bill that prevents terrorism and supports the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas has passed its third reading, Justice Minister Andrew Little says. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill is a carefully targeted response to manage the risk posed by a small number of New Zealanders who have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Foreign Minister and Pacific Peoples Minister to visit Samoa
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio will travel to Samoa on Friday, where New Zealand medical teams are helping Samoa respond to an outbreak of measles. “New Zealand has been working closely with the Government of Samoa and offering our assistance from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • New Pastoral Care Code will support tertiary students in 2020
    The Government has changed the law to improve student safety and welfare in university halls of residence and other student accommodation. The Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill passed its third reading this afternoon and details of an interim Code of Practice setting out the Government’s expectations of tertiary providers have also been released. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • New infrastructure funding tool to build housing developments faster
    A new tool to help councils fund and finance infrastructure could mean some housing developments happen a decade earlier than currently planned, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said today. “This new tool, developed by the Government in partnership with industry and high-growth councils, will allow councils to access private debt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Vision to unite the primary sector launched today
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has welcomed the release of a bold new vision for the country’s vital food and fibre sector. “I’m delighted that New Zealand’s major farmer and grower organisations are today supporting the Primary Sector Council’s vision – Fit for a Better World,” he said. “The international consumers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • NZ congratulates PNG and Autonomous Bougainville Government on referendum
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has congratulated the Government of Papua New Guinea and the Autonomous Bougainville Government for completing a well-conducted referendum on the future political status of Bougainville. “New Zealand supported the referendum process by providing technical advice through the New Zealand Electoral Commission and leading a Regional Police ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Next steps for Upper North Island logistics
    In light of Cabinet’s position that freight operations on prime land in downtown Auckland are no longer viable, the Government will now embark on a short work programme to enable decision-making in the first half of next year, Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones says. Minister Jones is today releasing the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Surgical mesh restorative justice report received
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai a milestone for drinking water safety
    The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai , introduced to Parliament today, is a milestone for drinking water safety in New Zealand and will help improve environmental outcomes for urban waterways, rivers and lakes.  “This is a breakthrough for New Zealanders in terms of providing safe drinking water throughout ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to new direction for criminal justice reform announcement
    Kia ora koutouE ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā matā wakaTēnā koutou katoaHaere ngā, moe maiKoutou ma ngā Rangatira Ko Anaru ahauKo au te Minita mo ngā TureHe Honore tino nui kei roto I ahau No reira tena koutou katoa Today, we are releasing two reports that are the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New direction for criminal justice reform
    The Government is looking to turn around the long-term challenges of criminal justice by taking a new approach to break the cycle of offending to ensure there are fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Andrew Little released two reports today, Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uepū Hāpai I te Ora, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New law sets up $300m Venture Capital Fund
    New Zealand firms expanding beyond the start-up phase are set for more support after today’s passage of the Venture Capital Fund Bill, Associate Finance Minister David Parker said. The Bill, which establishes a $300 million Venture Capital Fund, puts in place a key initiative of the Wellbeing Budget’s economic package. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
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    2 days ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
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    2 days ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
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    2 days ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
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    3 days ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
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    3 days ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
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    4 days ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
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    4 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
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    4 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
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    5 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago